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Trump now an evens chance of winning the GOP WH2024 nomination – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited March 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Dead easy. Only around 42% of Scots are currently rebellious and most of them will either be pissed, high or out campaigning for more wokery, so I reckon a bunch of local TA could quell them🤡
    The entire TA (outwith Scotland) is approx 30,000. How exactly are they going to invade and occupy Scotland, pop approx 5.5 million?
    There is no invasion needed, suppression of secessionists who tried terrorism is not invasion as Scotland remains within the UK
    Why? Why do you say stuff like this? The SNP are a lot of things, but terrorists isn't one of them.
    The scenario involved extreme Scottish Nationalists turning to terrorism
    I'm not impressed by the current SNP. But there is no suggestion they or their supporters would ever turn to violence. Scotland is not Ireland or even Wales.
    You’ve never seen a Rangers Celtic match then

    Irish nationalists v British nationalists

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    One consequence of this is that the number of ICE cars on the road will start to decline, which means the demand for petrol and diesel will decline, and the number of fuel stations will do likewise.

    It's some way off, but it will start to become more difficult to find a fuel station and that will help to persuade more reluctant drivers to switch.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She really fucked up the chances of state educated people aspiring to any kind of position of authority.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,940
    edited March 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!


    Edit: Her chancellor went to a very posh school. You know, the only schools you approve of.

    So what, it was still her Cabinet and she appointed him.

    I note too Humza Yousaf went to Independent Hutchesons Grammar school

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchesons'_Grammar_School
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
    It'll be a real HD but there is no such thing a Harley Davidson "Napalm".
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She was a lot better than the useless article we have now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She was a lot better than the useless article we have now.
    Mr Market disagrees.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.
    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!


    Edit: Her chancellor went to a very posh school. You know, the only schools you approve of.
    But presumably he was just a token, carefully selected for his skin colour, all the way on his rise to the top. At what stage did he actually show his ability?

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,389

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    One consequence of this is that the number of ICE cars on the road will start to decline, which means the demand for petrol and diesel will decline, and the number of fuel stations will do likewise.

    It's some way off, but it will start to become more difficult to find a fuel station and that will help to persuade more reluctant drivers to switch.
    Not only that the price of petrol will go up as a consequence as demand falls. Fixed costs won't fall so will drive prices upwards as there is less product to recover them against.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    edited March 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
    It'll be a real HD but there is no such thing a Harley Davidson "Napalm".
    There's a semi chopped and Leon level annoyingly loud Harley that often sits outside a local caff to which I find myself strangely attracted. Clearest sign yet that I'm getting old.




  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    ClippP said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.
    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!


    Edit: Her chancellor went to a very posh school. You know, the only schools you approve of.
    But presumably he was just a token, carefully selected for his skin colour, all the way on his rise to the top. At what stage did he actually show his ability?

    Ah, racism.

    Rishi has the classic, modern version of the high flyer CV. Poor(ish) boy made good, acquired the right background on the way up.

    You are assuming that high flying (as in rapid advancement) is connected with ability
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Penddu2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Stay in NATO with most of the rest of Europe, Turkey and Canada
    Trump didn't leave NATO last time, can't see him doing it next time either, if he gets elected. But does Canada stay in if the US leaves? It's not as if Europe is going to declare war on the US if it then invades Canada, is it? So presumably Canada would be more interested in having bilateral treaty with US.

    I can see Trump abandoning Ukraine though. Either that or a nuclear first strike on Russia.
    Of course Canada stays in NATO. Russia is closer to Canada than it is to the UK for starters!

    You do seem to have forgotten however the US invaded Canada in the War of 1812 and the Canadians pushed them back only with support from Britain
    I don't think Russia is closer to Canada than the to the UK.
    The Bering Straits between Russia and Alaska are just 82km wide and Alaska's land border is with northern Canada
    Russia to Canadian border is about 1500km. UK to Kalingrad is about 1200km. Google Maps can give you exact numbers.
    And as posted earlier Russian TV is now talking about invading Alaska and next stop would then be Canada

    https://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-tv-guest-yevgeny-satanovsky-revives-effort-reclaim-alaska-us-1780536

    Chance of Russia invading Alaska=0

    It's like someone in Russia saying 'Uk betting site now talking about England invading Scotland' because they read one of your posts.
    We saw how well Russia did invading down a road straight to Kyiv. Be interesting to see how they'd get on over 50 miles of the Bering Sea.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,940

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She was a lot better than the useless article we have now.
    She crashed the markets and took the Tories under 20% within her first month!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,531
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    It was never an either/or. And if we had not chosen to do Brexit we would still not be doing the investment that is needed for the new normal. We never do. We didn't for the 45 years we were in the EU. UK industrial policy has been bollocks for decades.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,145

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She really fucked up the chances of state educated people aspiring to any kind of position of authority.
    Also one of Malmers "New Upper Ten Thousand" given the entry criteria for this is abject failure in top job followed by complete absence of humility.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Protecting the Falklands and Gibraltar.

    Plus taking part in UN and NATO operations
    The British Empire going out in a whimper.
    Bit like the SNP post Sturgeon!!!
    SNP 47%
    Lab 28%
    Con 8%
    Grn 6%
    LD 6%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,231; 8 March)

    Tories in single figures and the SNP near 50%, after 15 years in government and eleven election victories in a row.

    The lack of self-awareness is stunning.
    Sturgeon is still SNP leader, once calamity Yousaf or Gilead Forbes succeeds her those ratings will collapse like a lack of cards
    SNP Armageddon No.67,685

    Yawn.
    No.

    It’s SNP Armageddon No.67,683

    67,685 is NET* next week.

    *No Earlier Than
    That's gross.
    Reminds me of an old joke.

    Toilet cleaner is engaged for the Reading Festival. He happily cleans half of the 288 portaloos, but refuses to do the other half. Asked why, he says, "well, I've done 144: gross; doing 288 would be two gross"
    Does anybody under fifty get that gag? Has the "gross" gone the way of the bushell and the chain?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,940
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She really fucked up the chances of state educated people aspiring to any kind of position of authority.
    Also one of Malmers "New Upper Ten Thousand" given the entry criteria for this is abject failure in top job followed by complete absence of humility.
    Well at least we can say there is a meritocratic route to being a complete failure in a top job with a complete absence of humility yet who still ends up a multi millionaire anyway! Even the comprehensive educated can get there
  • Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Dead easy. Only around 42% of Scots are currently rebellious and most of them will either be pissed, high or out campaigning for more wokery, so I reckon a bunch of local TA could quell them🤡
    The entire TA (outwith Scotland) is approx 30,000. How exactly are they going to invade and occupy Scotland, pop approx 5.5 million?
    There is no invasion needed, suppression of secessionists who tried terrorism is not invasion as Scotland remains within the UK
    Why? Why do you say stuff like this? The SNP are a lot of things, but terrorists isn't one of them.
    The scenario involved extreme Scottish Nationalists turning to terrorism
    I'm not impressed by the current SNP. But there is no suggestion they or their supporters would ever turn to violence. Scotland is not Ireland or even Wales.
    You’ve never seen a Rangers Celtic match then
    Neither of which support Scotland. It's the Union Jack at Rangers, the Irish Tricolour at Celtic.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835

    Vodafone UK and Three merger to shortly be announced.

    Surely anti-competitive?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    I see the BBC is explicitly contrasting Rishi's statesmanship when dealing with M. Macron with Liz's 'friend or foe' tomfoolery. Rishi is a lucky boy - the contrast he can draw with his immediate predecessor will only ever show him in a good light.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,145
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She really fucked up the chances of state educated people aspiring to any kind of position of authority.
    Also one of Malmers "New Upper Ten Thousand" given the entry criteria for this is abject failure in top job followed by complete absence of humility.
    Indeed - followed by the well paid speaking gigs. Though not as well paid as Boris.

    The consequence for her failure is a pleasant life going forward, lots of money, probably some part time gigs on boards for various virtuous endeavours. And getting invited to all smart events.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    One consequence of this is that the number of ICE cars on the road will start to decline, which means the demand for petrol and diesel will decline, and the number of fuel stations will do likewise.

    It's some way off, but it will start to become more difficult to find a fuel station and that will help to persuade more reluctant drivers to switch.
    Not only that the price of petrol will go up as a consequence as demand falls. Fixed costs won't fall so will drive prices upwards as there is less product to recover them against.
    Yes, we've started up the EV adoption 'S' curve and will pass ICE cars in their falling curve in a few years.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She really fucked up the chances of state educated people aspiring to any kind of position of authority.
    Also one of Malmers "New Upper Ten Thousand" given the entry criteria for this is abject failure in top job followed by complete absence of humility.
    Well at least we can say there is a meritocratic route to being a complete failure in a top job with a complete absence of humility yet who still ends up a multi millionaire anyway! Even the comprehensive educated can get there
    Membership of the New Upper 10,000 is open to a far wider and more diverse group than the Old Upper !0,000

    This is, indeed, why quite a few prefer the NU10K to OLD10K.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    There were three council by-elections on Thursday

    Labour held in Tottenham Hale (Haringey) and Heston West (Hounslow). The Liberal Democrats gained a seat from the SNP in Corstorphine/Murrayfield (Edinburgh).

    The LibDems did well to come second in both of the Labour holds, from a long way back in 3rd in Tottenham Hale behind the Greens, and having not even stood last time out in Heston West. In the latter they seem to have taken equally from Labour and the Greens, while in the former it was only the Greens that saw their vote fall significantly. The Cons held their vote share pretty well in both.

    In Corstorphine/Murrayfield, the gain is not quite as impressive as it might seem. Scottish elections being held under STV, last time the LibDems won two of three seats in the ward, and the SNP took the third but quite a way behind on first preferences. So the LibDems were always going to be favourites to take this when only one seat was up. Having said that, they did get over 50% of the vote, and both the SNP and the Cons fell back.

    Good Week/Bad Week Index

    LDm +73
    Lab +52
    SNP -16
    Con -22
    Grn -25

    Adjusted Seat Value

    LDm +1.2
    Lab +0.9
    SNP -0.3
    Con -0.4
    Grn -0.4

    For an explanation of the GooD Week/Bad Week Index, see here: https://drinkentire.wordpress.com/2023/02/07/the-good-week-bad-week-index/
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.

    We have a Brexit inflicted on us by an incompetent and inept political class. That is a problem.

  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
    It'll be a real HD but there is no such thing a Harley Davidson "Napalm".
    There's a semi chopped and Leon level annoyingly loud Harley that often sits outside a local caff to which I find myself strangely attracted. Clearest sign yet that I'm getting old.




    I think that engine is Chinese Shineray Harley Evolution clone. Second worst thing to ever escape from a Chinese laboratory.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Protecting the Falklands and Gibraltar.

    Plus taking part in UN and NATO operations
    The British Empire going out in a whimper.
    Bit like the SNP post Sturgeon!!!
    SNP 47%
    Lab 28%
    Con 8%
    Grn 6%
    LD 6%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,231; 8 March)

    Tories in single figures and the SNP near 50%, after 15 years in government and eleven election victories in a row.

    The lack of self-awareness is stunning.
    Sturgeon is still SNP leader, once calamity Yousaf or Gilead Forbes succeeds her those ratings will collapse like a lack of cards
    SNP Armageddon No.67,685

    Yawn.
    No.

    It’s SNP Armageddon No.67,683

    67,685 is NET* next week.

    *No Earlier Than
    That's gross.
    Reminds me of an old joke.

    Toilet cleaner is engaged for the Reading Festival. He happily cleans half of the 288 portaloos, but refuses to do the other half. Asked why, he says, "well, I've done 144: gross; doing 288 would be two gross"
    Does anybody under fifty get that gag? Has the "gross" gone the way of the bushell and the chain?
    Well, I'm under 50.

    However, I first heard a variant on it at primary school, from the teacher, who had to explain what a gross was. The toilet cleaner/festival version I think I first heard at uni.

    I've never heard a gross referred to outside of variants of that joke, as far as I recall.

    The bushell and chain seem about as real today as a long weight :wink:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,940

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She really fucked up the chances of state educated people aspiring to any kind of position of authority.
    Also one of Malmers "New Upper Ten Thousand" given the entry criteria for this is abject failure in top job followed by complete absence of humility.
    Well at least we can say there is a meritocratic route to being a complete failure in a top job with a complete absence of humility yet who still ends up a multi millionaire anyway! Even the comprehensive educated can get there
    Membership of the New Upper 10,000 is open to a far wider and more diverse group than the Old Upper !0,000

    This is, indeed, why quite a few prefer the NU10K to OLD10K.
    Though even the monarchy has now opened up beyond the old aristocracy and royal houses of Europe.

    Some of the Princess of Wales' ancestors were miners and the Duchess of Sussex was not aristocratic either. Indeed of the next generation of Royals only Princess Beatrice is married to an aristocrat and even then only a minor Italian one
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    edited March 2023
    They can't keep their hands off each other!

    The Macron/Sunak let go of each other challenge: pic.twitter.com/vV9ghGX0rl
    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1634181988801298433
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,145
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She really fucked up the chances of state educated people aspiring to any kind of position of authority.
    Also one of Malmers "New Upper Ten Thousand" given the entry criteria for this is abject failure in top job followed by complete absence of humility.
    Well at least we can say there is a meritocratic route to being a complete failure in a top job with a complete absence of humility yet who still ends up a multi millionaire anyway! Even the comprehensive educated can get there
    Mmm. Well I'm on a journey back to socialism. A 'meritocracy' is not my holy grail. Seems to me the concept is mainly used to justify rank inequality.

    Given the hypothetical choice I'd rather see a society where the wealth/status gap between top and bottom is radically reduced than one where it remains enormous but everyone has a fair 'merit' based chance of making it to the top.

    Although the latter would be an improvement on where we are.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434

    I see the BBC is explicitly contrasting Rishi's statesmanship when dealing with M. Macron with Liz's 'friend or foe' tomfoolery. Rishi is a lucky boy - the contrast he can draw with his immediate predecessor will only ever show him in a good light.

    Not with anyone who would be tempted to vote Tory, and certainly not when we read the small print.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    Wouldn't an EU including the UK have significantly more weight and expertise to bring that kind of industry to Europe?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.

    We have a Brexit inflicted on us by an incompetent and inept political class. That is a problem.

    I don't want to get bogged down in these arguments again.

    Brexit carried risks and also created opportunities but both of these were at the margins. I agree that we have so far implemented Brexit incompetently and ineptly but there is some signs of better things to come on that with both the NI protocol and the entente cordiale in Paris today. But these are marginal factors as the charts from the Guardian, no less, copied by @Leon this morning showed. There is absolutely no evidence of Brexit impacting on our somewhat disappointing long term trends for good or ill.

    What will is more investment, less consumption, a fairer tax system, more training, especially of better managers as you yourself have pointed out many times, more efficient infrastructure and a better working housing market, amongst others. We will see if any of these get ticked in the budget next week.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    AlistairM said:

    They can't keep their hands off each other!

    The Macron/Sunak let go of each other challenge: pic.twitter.com/vV9ghGX0rl
    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1634181988801298433

    I'd love to know what the security guy is saying just after they go in. Does't look very complimentary!
  • kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
  • DavidL said:

    Vodafone UK and Three merger to shortly be announced.

    Surely anti-competitive?
    The consensus is that three MNOs is enough to have a balance of competition.

    Three desperately needs money and Vodafone needs more infrastructure to take on EE
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Dead easy. Only around 42% of Scots are currently rebellious and most of them will either be pissed, high or out campaigning for more wokery, so I reckon a bunch of local TA could quell them🤡
    The entire TA (outwith Scotland) is approx 30,000. How exactly are they going to invade and occupy Scotland, pop approx 5.5 million?
    There is no invasion needed, suppression of secessionists who tried terrorism is not invasion as Scotland remains within the UK
    Nobody mentioned terrorism. Now you’re having your wet dreams in the middle of the day.

    We all know you are a great admirer of Castilian terrorism.
    The Spanish certainly didn't muck about when dealing with Basque secessionist ETA terrorism
    Oh good grief. Rabbit, meet hole.
    Especially when he uses the SNP and other independistas not turning to terrorism as an excuse for denying referenda.
    Indeed. It is one of his weirdest obsessions: terrorist deserve to be rewarded, but democrats must be ruthlessly crushed.
    That was the result of the Northern Ireland Peace Process.

    Are you a Man of Violence then?
    And the reason for the NIPP was ....?
    To make terrorists happy by giving them 6 figure jobs
    What about us brain-dead slobs?
    You'll be given cushy jobs!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835
    kamski said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    Wouldn't an EU including the UK have significantly more weight and expertise to bring that kind of industry to Europe?
    We can work together with the EU in or out of it as our rejoining the Horizon program has shown. But Europe is becoming a backwater in many respects having had disproportionate influence for a few centuries. The dynamic economies are now in the Pacific and the US will increasingly be more interested in them than us. That is where new technology is more likely to end up. Its just a fact of life.
  • AlistairM said:

    They can't keep their hands off each other!

    The Macron/Sunak let go of each other challenge: pic.twitter.com/vV9ghGX0rl
    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1634181988801298433

    No tongues?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    I see the BBC is explicitly contrasting Rishi's statesmanship when dealing with M. Macron with Liz's 'friend or foe' tomfoolery. Rishi is a lucky boy - the contrast he can draw with his immediate predecessor will only ever show him in a good light.

    Damage is done for him though. I do
    wonder whether his approach to things would have been of Truss like tone were it not for her fall.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,145
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    It's probably true we didn't have our eyes on the ball before Brexit. But I'm not sure we're even on the pitch now.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    DavidL said:

    kamski said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    Wouldn't an EU including the UK have significantly more weight and expertise to bring that kind of industry to Europe?
    We can work together with the EU in or out of it as our rejoining the Horizon program has shown. But Europe is becoming a backwater in many respects having had disproportionate influence for a few centuries. The dynamic economies are now in the Pacific and the US will increasingly be more interested in them than us. That is where new technology is more likely to end up. Its just a fact of life.
    That maybe true, but why would we want to accelerate that trend?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
    So you're talking about our Mediocre Establishment. Yes I too see this as a problem. And I agree we shouldn't assume that to the extent people attain power and wealth by merit (rather than class) this means all is well. It doesn't. They are intertwined.

    Merit (as it's traditionally thought of) flows from education and in this country education strongly correlates to class. Unless you break the latter link all you can realistically expect are marginal improvements to the Establishment rather than a transformation.
    The big problem is that the current incumbents think that since they got there (they believe) on merit, that they are the leak of he pyramid. The manifestation of Ra, gleaming down on the grateful hordes below.

    The truth is that it’s a mixture of merit, cliques and tongs. It’s not old school ties any longer - look at the networks in the charitable world for example. And in many cases it’s hereditary - the promotion of children via various routes by their parents.

    This obscures their very average talents.

    We were talking of BritVolt the other day. In talking to people in business and permanent government on this, a pattern emerges.

    BritVolt had a business plan and that was all they needed. They may have had no technology or technological innovation - but that was irrelevant. You just hire the slightly icky technical types later.
    There is still an old school tie element to it, a significant one in my experience. As a comprehensive educated person I just take it as given that I'm unlikely to advance in any organisation run by British people.
    We had a comprehensive educated PM 6 months ago, can't say she was the greatest holder of the office though!
    She was a lot better than the useless article we have now.
    She crashed the markets and took the Tories under 20% within her first month!
    Her attempt to arrest Britain's decline failed. I have a zillion times more respect for someone trying to do that and failing to someone deliberately accelerating it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Even Shamima Begum knows the answer to that one!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Ten-year old veteran Pebbles takes the lead in the intermediate class with a fast clear round
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    Also, people aren't exactly sent in cold. You get a small booklet with what you need to know and you can cover it in a couple of weekends. Especially as there aren't many hard questions and the pass mark is only 25%.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    Also, people aren't exactly sent in cold. You get a small booklet with what you need to know and you can cover it in a couple of weekends. Especially as there aren't many hard questions and the pass mark is only 25%.
    I meant the 75%.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Dead easy. Only around 42% of Scots are currently rebellious and most of them will either be pissed, high or out campaigning for more wokery, so I reckon a bunch of local TA could quell them🤡
    The entire TA (outwith Scotland) is approx 30,000. How exactly are they going to invade and occupy Scotland, pop approx 5.5 million?
    There is no invasion needed, suppression of secessionists who tried terrorism is not invasion as Scotland remains within the UK
    Why? Why do you say stuff like this? The SNP are a lot of things, but terrorists isn't one of them.
    The scenario involved extreme Scottish Nationalists turning to terrorism
    I'm not impressed by the current SNP. But there is no suggestion they or their supporters would ever turn to violence. Scotland is not Ireland or even Wales.
    You’ve never seen a Rangers Celtic match then

    Irish nationalists v British nationalists

    I was waiting for someone to make that point - and preferably a neutral ...
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    Also, people aren't exactly sent in cold. You get a small booklet with what you need to know and you can cover it in a couple of weekends. Especially as there aren't many hard questions and the pass mark is only 25%.
    Sure, just find it interesting that knowing when the Turner prize started is considered important to being a good citizen.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Dead easy. Only around 42% of Scots are currently rebellious and most of them will either be pissed, high or out campaigning for more wokery, so I reckon a bunch of local TA could quell them🤡
    The entire TA (outwith Scotland) is approx 30,000. How exactly are they going to invade and occupy Scotland, pop approx 5.5 million?
    There is no invasion needed, suppression of secessionists who tried terrorism is not invasion as Scotland remains within the UK
    Why? Why do you say stuff like this? The SNP are a lot of things, but terrorists isn't one of them.
    The scenario involved extreme Scottish Nationalists turning to terrorism
    I'm not impressed by the current SNP. But there is no suggestion they or their supporters would ever turn to violence. Scotland is not Ireland or even Wales.
    You’ve never seen a Rangers Celtic match then
    Neither of which support Scotland. It's the Union Jack at Rangers, the Irish Tricolour at Celtic.
    And you too spotted the logical fail.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited March 2023
    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    Also, people aren't exactly sent in cold. You get a small booklet with what you need to know and you can cover it in a couple of weekends. Especially as there aren't many hard questions and the pass mark is only 25%.
    Sure, just find it interesting that knowing when the Turner prize started is considered important to being a good citizen.
    It's not important to being a good citizen. It's important to remaining a non-subject of KCIII. That's the whole point of the questionnaire - it's like the 11 plus, only even more radical.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
    I agree. If a Japanese or Canadian person integrates here and wants to become British, are we really going to make them apply for visas to go back and visit their family twice a year?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Vice takes the lead, almost breaking the thirty-second time
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
    It'll be a real HD but there is no such thing a Harley Davidson "Napalm".
    There's a semi chopped and Leon level annoyingly loud Harley that often sits outside a local caff to which I find myself strangely attracted. Clearest sign yet that I'm getting old.




    I think that engine is Chinese Shineray Harley Evolution clone. Second worst thing to ever escape from a Chinese laboratory.
    Arghh, can't even depend on male menopausal fantasies any more.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,417
    edited March 2023
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.

    We have a Brexit inflicted on us by an incompetent and inept political class. That is a problem.

    I don't want to get bogged down in these arguments again.

    Brexit carried risks and also created opportunities but both of these were at the margins. I agree that we have so far implemented Brexit incompetently and ineptly but there is some signs of better things to come on that with both the NI protocol and the entente cordiale in Paris today. But these are marginal factors as the charts from the Guardian, no less, copied by @Leon this morning showed. There is absolutely no evidence of Brexit impacting on our somewhat disappointing long term trends for good or ill.

    What will is more investment, less consumption, a fairer tax system, more training, especially of better managers as you yourself have pointed out many times, more efficient infrastructure and a better working housing market, amongst others. We will see if any of these get ticked in the budget next week.
    The chart that Leon posted this morning was a simple UK GDP graph. Given their contemporaneous nature, it is very difficult to separate the effects of Brexit, the pandemic and the invasion of Ukraine, and especially so from a single graph. What is notable, though, is that the UK economy has performed badly compared with those of its peers over the last few years. This could be due to the UK economy being hit especially hard by COVID, by Ukraine, by Brexit, or by some combination of the three. Other factors many also have had an influence. You simply can't tell from one chart.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    It's probably true we didn't have our eyes on the ball before Brexit. But I'm not sure we're even on the pitch now.
    And yet the trends remain the same. Do we want to start addressing the real issues now?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    AlistairM said:

    They can't keep their hands off each other!

    The Macron/Sunak let go of each other challenge: pic.twitter.com/vV9ghGX0rl
    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1634181988801298433

    Eugh, get a room.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
    It'll be a real HD but there is no such thing a Harley Davidson "Napalm".
    There's a semi chopped and Leon level annoyingly loud Harley that often sits outside a local caff to which I find myself strangely attracted. Clearest sign yet that I'm getting old.




    I knew a guy in Edinburgh who went on an extended holiday in the US, ended up helping some guy build a house, and used the payment for that to buy a Harley and bring it back.

    He used to ride it into the warehouse, which was really annoying.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    It was never an either/or. And if we had not chosen to do Brexit we would still not be doing the investment that is needed for the new normal. We never do. We didn't for the 45 years we were in the EU. UK industrial policy has been bollocks for decades.
    It need not have been, but effectively, yes it was.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Vice's time remains unbeaten as the Intermediate competition ends
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
    I agree. If a Japanese or Canadian person integrates here and wants to become British, are we really going to make them apply for visas to go back and visit their family twice a year?
    I got German citizenship after the Brexit vote because I live in Germany, my wife and child are here and are German citizens and I didn't want my legal status here to be at the whim of stupid decisions made by idiot politicians - which is what happened with Brexit from my point of view - or have to ask for permission to stay in my own home every 2 or 5 years or whatever it would be. I was glad I managed to do it before Brexit came into force, otherwise I would have had to give up my British citizenship. In fact I wouldn't have done that because I have elderly parents in the UK and I can easily imagine wanting to go and look after them (there's nobody else) and I wouldn't want to have to worry about my legal status in Britain in that kind of situation, for example. I'm not sure what harm it conceivably does to Germany if I keep British citizenship, I can only see potential benefit if I end up returning to the UK when I'm old and need expensive healthcare!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258

    AlistairM said:

    They can't keep their hands off each other!

    The Macron/Sunak let go of each other challenge: pic.twitter.com/vV9ghGX0rl
    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1634181988801298433

    No tongues?
    The best was every time Macron put his hand on Rishi’s back (as a power play), Rishi reciprocated.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
    I agree. If a Japanese or Canadian person integrates here and wants to become British, are we really going to make them apply for visas to go back and visit their family twice a year?
    Also raises problems in NI, especially as even unionists are getting Irish passports these days, for obvious reasons.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    In the medium competition, Candy Crush takes a wrong turn and is eliminated
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    FPT

    We have double-decker trains in Sweden. They’re shite.

    Look quite cool from the outside, but terribly uncomfortable. Cramped, with stale air. Only used on secondary, regional routes with frequent stops.

    Seem to have reliability problems too.
    I avoid them whenever possible.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    Also, people aren't exactly sent in cold. You get a small booklet with what you need to know and you can cover it in a couple of weekends. Especially as there aren't many hard questions and the pass mark is only 25%.
    Sure, just find it interesting that knowing when the Turner prize started is considered important to being a good citizen.
    It’s not a “good citizen” though. It’s “have you got a genuine interest in the UK” - do you participate in cultural activities?
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    AlistairM said:

    They can't keep their hands off each other!

    The Macron/Sunak let go of each other challenge: pic.twitter.com/vV9ghGX0rl
    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1634181988801298433

    Eugh, get a room.
    They did. For an hour. On their own. The 1970s themed room.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    Also, people aren't exactly sent in cold. You get a small booklet with what you need to know and you can cover it in a couple of weekends. Especially as there aren't many hard questions and the pass mark is only 25%.
    Sure, just find it interesting that knowing when the Turner prize started is considered important to being a good citizen.
    It’s not a “good citizen” though. It’s “have you got a genuine interest in the UK” - do you participate in cultural activities?
    It isn't really though, it's have you memorised the answers to these questions?

    Most people with interest in the UK don't know or care when the Turner prize started.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Spider the Spaniel takes the lead
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    ..
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.

    We have a Brexit inflicted on us by an incompetent and inept political class. That is a problem.

    I don't want to get bogged down in these arguments again.

    Brexit carried risks and also created opportunities but both of these were at the margins. I agree that we have so far implemented Brexit incompetently and ineptly but there is some signs of better things to come on that with both the NI protocol and the entente cordiale in Paris today. But these are marginal factors as the charts from the Guardian, no less, copied by @Leon this morning showed. There is absolutely no evidence of Brexit impacting on our somewhat disappointing long term trends for good or ill.

    What will is more investment, less consumption, a fairer tax system, more training, especially of better managers as you yourself have pointed out many times, more efficient infrastructure and a better working housing market, amongst others. We will see if any of these get ticked in the budget next week.
    The issue here is that investment, not great before, has cratered because of Brexit. We either need some serious damage limitation on Brexit or boost our remaining niches. The consequences of our decision I guess.

    The other things you mention have nothing to do with Brexit but are definitely worth doing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
    I agree. If a Japanese or Canadian person integrates here and wants to become British, are we really going to make them apply for visas to go back and visit their family twice a year?
    Also raises problems in NI, especially as even unionists are getting Irish passports these days, for obvious reasons.

    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
    I agree. If a Japanese or Canadian person integrates here and wants to become British, are we really going to make them apply for visas to go back and visit their family twice a year?
    Also raises problems in NI, especially as even unionists are getting Irish passports these days, for obvious reasons.
    Plenty more in the UK: it's not just NI. Quite a few folk in GB have Irish parents etc and have been getting irish passports. Like the odd Tory Brexiter MP, come to think of it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    DavidL said:

    kamski said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    Wouldn't an EU including the UK have significantly more weight and expertise to bring that kind of industry to Europe?
    We can work together with the EU in or out of it as our rejoining the Horizon program has shown. But Europe is becoming a backwater in many respects having had disproportionate influence for a few centuries. The dynamic economies are now in the Pacific and the US will increasingly be more interested in them than us. That is where new technology is more likely to end up. Its just a fact of life.
    Is the UK definitely rejoining? The last I saw, the PM was still unsure about putting up the cash.

    Which highlights one of the issues of Brexit Britain. At least some of the 52% was driven by voters who wanted the money spent on them, now. And they have had to be indulged, at least a bit. So forget any investment that won't pay off in more than a year.


    We have a Brexit inflicted on us by an incompetent and inept political class. That is a problem.

    And the other problem is that Brexit has inflicted upon us an incompetent and inept political class.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited March 2023
    Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame) takes the lead with Sullivan and a clear run of close to thirty seconds. Just two competitors remaining in the small class.

    Edit/and wins, well set for the big final this evening.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,835

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.

    We have a Brexit inflicted on us by an incompetent and inept political class. That is a problem.

    I don't want to get bogged down in these arguments again.

    Brexit carried risks and also created opportunities but both of these were at the margins. I agree that we have so far implemented Brexit incompetently and ineptly but there is some signs of better things to come on that with both the NI protocol and the entente cordiale in Paris today. But these are marginal factors as the charts from the Guardian, no less, copied by @Leon this morning showed. There is absolutely no evidence of Brexit impacting on our somewhat disappointing long term trends for good or ill.

    What will is more investment, less consumption, a fairer tax system, more training, especially of better managers as you yourself have pointed out many times, more efficient infrastructure and a better working housing market, amongst others. We will see if any of these get ticked in the budget next week.
    The chart that Leon posted this morning was a simple UK GDP graph. Given their contemporaneous nature, it is very difficult to separate the effects of Brexit, the pandemic and the invasion of Ukraine, and especially so from a single graph. What is notable, though, is that the UK economy has performed badly compared with those of its peers over the last few years. This could be due to the UK economy being hit especially hard by COVID, by Ukraine, by Brexit, or by some combination of the three. Other factors many also have had an influence. You simply can't tell from one chart.
    As I set out this morning we outperformed others when financial services were on the up before the GFC and we have underperformed others since they are not. As others pointed out we have gone from a situation where London was outgrowing the rest of the UK and pulling us along to a situation where it isn't, largely because financial services are no longer the boom factor they were.

    We have a long term problem with balance of payments which is making us progressively poorer and is transferring more and more of our wealth creation into foreign hands. That problem arose whilst we were in the SM as oil ceased to be a counterbalancing factor for us. The failure of our political class to address the causes of that trade deficit, excess consumption, insufficient saving, poor investment, poor training, low productivity, an education system overly focused on the elite, our housing markets etc persisted throughout our membership of the SM and persists even now.

    It is blindingly obvious that our terms of trade are not the problem. Our inability to compete and earn the standard of living we aspire to is the problem. We need to do something about these real issues, now.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited March 2023
    IanB2 said:

    Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame) takes the lead with Sullivan and a clear run of under thirty seconds. Just two competitors remaining in the small class.

    Ashleigh is it not?

    (From a quick google after wondering who on earth 'Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame)' were).

    You watching and liveblogging the 'dogging' again, Ian? :wink:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    DavidL said:

    kamski said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    Wouldn't an EU including the UK have significantly more weight and expertise to bring that kind of industry to Europe?
    We can work together with the EU in or out of it as our rejoining the Horizon program has shown. But Europe is becoming a backwater in many respects having had disproportionate influence for a few centuries. The dynamic economies are now in the Pacific and the US will increasingly be more interested in them than us. That is where new technology is more likely to end up. Its just a fact of life.
    That's both inaccurate and a council of despair.

    There are certainly technologies in which Europe has a deficit - semiconductor manufacturing, for example (though even there advanced manufacturing is dependent on European tech) = but it's absurd to call it a backwater.

    EB manufacturing is a case in point. South Korea is one of the world's three big players, on the back of an economy and population smaller than the UK.
    There's nothing impossibly hard about the technology (indeed the UK had some very interesting early developments). We're just crap at industrial strategy, and no one invested in it.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
    I agree. If a Japanese or Canadian person integrates here and wants to become British, are we really going to make them apply for visas to go back and visit their family twice a year?
    I got German citizenship after the Brexit vote because I live in Germany, my wife and child are here and are German citizens and I didn't want my legal status here to be at the whim of stupid decisions made by idiot politicians - which is what happened with Brexit from my point of view - or have to ask for permission to stay in my own home every 2 or 5 years or whatever it would be. I was glad I managed to do it before Brexit came into force, otherwise I would have had to give up my British citizenship. In fact I wouldn't have done that because I have elderly parents in the UK and I can easily imagine wanting to go and look after them (there's nobody else) and I wouldn't want to have to worry about my legal status in Britain in that kind of situation, for example. I'm not sure what harm it conceivably does to Germany if I keep British citizenship, I can only see potential benefit if I end up returning to the UK when I'm old and need expensive healthcare!
    It is an unusually nationalistic policy for Germany.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    Selebian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame) takes the lead with Sullivan and a clear run of under thirty seconds. Just two competitors remaining in the small class.

    Ashleigh is it not?

    (From a quick google after wondering who on earth 'Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame)' were).

    You watching and liveblogging the 'dogging' again, Ian? :wink:
    You might want to stop badgering the poor chap ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268

    AlistairM said:

    They can't keep their hands off each other!

    The Macron/Sunak let go of each other challenge: pic.twitter.com/vV9ghGX0rl
    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1634181988801298433

    Eugh, get a room.
    Given some stories about The Macaroon that comment is somewhere between ill advised and Grounds For Cancelation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Selebian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame) takes the lead with Sullivan and a clear run of under thirty seconds. Just two competitors remaining in the small class.

    Ashleigh is it not?

    (From a quick google after wondering who on earth 'Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame)' were).

    You watching and liveblogging the 'dogging' again, Ian? :wink:
    Yes, it is. Britain's got talent winner with her previous dog, some years ago now
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    Also, people aren't exactly sent in cold. You get a small booklet with what you need to know and you can cover it in a couple of weekends. Especially as there aren't many hard questions and the pass mark is only 25%.
    Sure, just find it interesting that knowing when the Turner prize started is considered important to being a good citizen.
    It would be much more valuable to be grilling people on what freedom of speech, freedom of religion and equality of the sexes means. Then ensure they swear an oath to them once through the test.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    The incompetent and inept political class was the biggest cause of Brexit, of course...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame) takes the lead with Sullivan and a clear run of under thirty seconds. Just two competitors remaining in the small class.

    Ashleigh is it not?

    (From a quick google after wondering who on earth 'Ashley (of Ashley & Pudsey fame)' were).

    You watching and liveblogging the 'dogging' again, Ian? :wink:
    You might want to stop badgering the poor chap ...
    I did at least stop short of buffaloing him

    (as in 'Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo')
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    Also, people aren't exactly sent in cold. You get a small booklet with what you need to know and you can cover it in a couple of weekends. Especially as there aren't many hard questions and the pass mark is only 25%.
    Sure, just find it interesting that knowing when the Turner prize started is considered important to being a good citizen.
    It would be much more valuable to be grilling people on what freedom of speech, freedom of religion and equality of the sexes means. Then ensure they swear an oath to them once through the test.
    Which is exact what most of the German citizenship questions are about. Though not exactly grilling, just multiple choice where the answers are obvious with a bit of common sense
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Oops.

    Allegations of Scientific Misconduct Mount as Physicist Makes His Biggest Claim Yet
    Condensed-matter physicist Ranga Dias and his colleagues reported on Tuesday the discovery of a room-temperature, near-ambient-pressure superconductor; Dias is also being accused of committing scientific misconduct, including data manipulation and plagiarism.
    https://physics.aps.org/articles/v16/40
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
    It'll be a real HD but there is no such thing a Harley Davidson "Napalm".
    There's a semi chopped and Leon level annoyingly loud Harley that often sits outside a local caff to which I find myself strangely attracted. Clearest sign yet that I'm getting old.




    I think that engine is Chinese Shineray Harley Evolution clone. Second worst thing to ever escape from a Chinese laboratory.
    Arghh, can't even depend on male menopausal fantasies any more.
    I tried explaining to a friend that she was extremely lucky that he husbands mid life crisis was spending money on an elaborate kitchen, in which he carefully cooks meals for her, to an extremely high standard. He also keeps it polished to the nth degree.

    As opposed to buying a super bike and killing himself at the first corner.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    It's not as much tough as random, like a pub quiz, full of things that nobody cares about and you might happen to know. Essentially it tests if you've memorised the book, and it's a seriously daft way to test if you're ready to be British.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
    It'll be a real HD but there is no such thing a Harley Davidson "Napalm".
    There's a semi chopped and Leon level annoyingly loud Harley that often sits outside a local caff to which I find myself strangely attracted. Clearest sign yet that I'm getting old.




    I think that engine is Chinese Shineray Harley Evolution clone. Second worst thing to ever escape from a Chinese laboratory.
    Arghh, can't even depend on male menopausal fantasies any more.
    I tried explaining to a friend that she was extremely lucky that he husbands mid life crisis was spending money on an elaborate kitchen, in which he carefully cooks meals for her, to an extremely high standard. He also keeps it polished to the nth degree.

    As opposed to buying a super bike and killing himself at the first corner.
    Was she complaining?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Carnyx said:

    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
    I agree. If a Japanese or Canadian person integrates here and wants to become British, are we really going to make them apply for visas to go back and visit their family twice a year?
    Also raises problems in NI, especially as even unionists are getting Irish passports these days, for obvious reasons.

    WillG said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).



    IMHO, There should only be one test for citizenship.
    "Do you renounce all other citizenships ?"
    Why?

    FWIW Germany have had that policy for most, with exceptions for other EU citizenships, and those countries that make it difficult or impossible to give up citizenship (or cases where giving it up would cause hardship). But now are supposedly going to change to allow dual citizenship.
    I agree. If a Japanese or Canadian person integrates here and wants to become British, are we really going to make them apply for visas to go back and visit their family twice a year?
    Also raises problems in NI, especially as even unionists are getting Irish passports these days, for obvious reasons.
    Plenty more in the UK: it's not just NI. Quite a few folk in GB have Irish parents etc and have been getting irish passports. Like the odd Tory Brexiter MP, come to think of it.
    I'm gutted my Irish ancestry is too far back.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,268
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
    Thanks. i think its real though. Giant front wheel small back one with something that looks like a chrome fan sticking out at the side. The only place it says 'Harley Davidson' is next to the speedo. Anyway who else but a HD driver would deliberately take the space of 4 bikes!
    It'll be a real HD but there is no such thing a Harley Davidson "Napalm".
    There's a semi chopped and Leon level annoyingly loud Harley that often sits outside a local caff to which I find myself strangely attracted. Clearest sign yet that I'm getting old.




    I think that engine is Chinese Shineray Harley Evolution clone. Second worst thing to ever escape from a Chinese laboratory.
    Arghh, can't even depend on male menopausal fantasies any more.
    I tried explaining to a friend that she was extremely lucky that he husbands mid life crisis was spending money on an elaborate kitchen, in which he carefully cooks meals for her, to an extremely high standard. He also keeps it polished to the nth degree.

    As opposed to buying a super bike and killing himself at the first corner.
    Was she complaining?
    Yes.

    I pointed out that £4K Miele ovens are tiny fraction of the price of even the most basic automotive mid life crisis. Plus they actually add value to the house. And are even useful for cooking.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Completely off-topic:

    Has anyone had a go at the British Citizenship test? There are some quite difficult questions like "who built the Tower of London?" or "what year was the Turner Prize established?"

    And you need to get 75% to pass.

    The German test is way easier eg "what was the Stasi?"
    And you only need to get 50%.

    Also interesting: none of the German questions about history go back further than the 1930s, whereas UK ones go back to at least Julius Caesar. Lots of questions about the Nazis and about the DDR and the Cold War.
    History questions are numbers 151-211 here:
    https://oet.bamf.de/ords/oetut/f?p=514:30:0::NO:::

    You also find the answer to the question: What was the hallmark of National Socialism?
    A policy of state racism (Question 161).

    There's always examples someone born to it likely wouldn't get. But then it is probably meant to be tougher, and if everyone had to be tested they'd pay better attention in school.
    I also think you are given material to learn - its not just random.

    I love the question - Who built the Tower of London? Its so ambiguous. I assume the implication is William the 1st (the Bastard, the Conquerer, the Usurper etc), but he almost certainly didn't do any of the work himself, and the initial tower was wooden, not the stone we see now, and its been added to over the centuries and on and on.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure what the medium term economic consequences will be, but Biden’s green industrial incentives have rocket propelled EV building in the US.

    VW Pauses Plans For Cell Plant In Europe, Prioritizes North America
    Volkswagen Group estimates it could get up to $10.6 billion in US incentives for a cell factory in North America.
    https://insideevs.com/news/656460/vw-group-pauses-plans-for-cell-plant-europe-prioritizes-north-america/

    Current energy prices also come into it.

    Korea will be a winner, though, as half the new factories are being built in collaboration with LG and Samsung’s energy subsidiaries.

    Report: GM To Partner With Samsung SDI On Cylindrical Batteries
    https://insideevs.com/news/656051/gm-samsung-sdi-cylindrical-batteries/
    … The reports build on the previous news that GM-LG Energy Solution (LGES)'s talks about the fourth battery plant in the United States stalled. GM and LGES have so far launched three Ultium Cells battery projects (the first plant is already producing battery cells, since 2022)...
    The Global ICE Industry Cliff Is Here
    https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/09/the-global-ice-industry-cliff-is-here/
    Yes, I was arguing that a decade ago.
    Instead, we chose to do Brexit.
    Actually one of the very biggest debenefits of Brexit imo. How it's been a glutton for time and energy, crowding out so much else. Or when not crowding things out, warping how they are viewed.
    The flaw in that reasoning is pretty obvious. As @Richard_Tyndall points out we weren't exactly focused on the problems in the previous 50 years when Brexit was not an issue. The hypothesis that there are a limited number of trivial and irrelevant things for politicians to obsess on rather than do the hard work is also false. Just look at Scotland where we spent months on a GRR bill. Politicians need displacement activity and have no trouble in finding or creating it.

    As usual Brexit is not the problem here. An incompetent and inept political class is the problem.
    It's probably true we didn't have our eyes on the ball before Brexit. But I'm not sure we're even on the pitch now.
    And yet the trends remain the same. Do we want to start addressing the real issues now?
    So much easier and more satisfying to blame it on Brexit and those who advocated Brexit and spend another couple of decades avoiding the real issues.

    Maddening isn't it?
This discussion has been closed.