rottenborough said:

MPs calling for her to go:



(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Seems to finally be a degree of coordination here.

I think it will mean more if we start seeing co-ordinated tweets or pronouncements on who the replacement should be. Then it will suggest an agreement has been reached on the replacement rather than it all being so horrendous that they just want Liz out and sod the consequences.

AlistairM said:

Strange goings on in Germany.

Treason!!

🇨🇳 China: We want to buy part of the port of Hamburg.

🇩🇪 Economic Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Interior Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Defense Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Foreign Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Finance Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Transport Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Intelligence Agency: No!
🇩🇪 Counterintelligence Agency: No!
🇪🇺 EU Commission: No!

🇩🇪 Chancellor @OlafScholz : Yes! China can buy it. I am forcing through the sale of this critical infrastructure and am overruling all ministers and all German security agencies to do what the Chinese dictator wants.
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1583039861447331840

China won't actually control the Port of Hamburg, though.

Now, my memory may be wrong, but the Port of Hamburg was (or still is) a publicly quoted company on the German Stock Exchange. And the purchaser is not the Government of China, but a Hong Kong listed publicly quoted company, Cosco Ports. And it isn't actually proposed that Cosco will buy all of the Port of Hamburg, but merely that it will take a 35% stake.

AlistairM said:

Strange goings on in Germany.

Treason!!

🇨🇳 China: We want to buy part of the port of Hamburg.

🇩🇪 Economic Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Interior Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Defense Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Foreign Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Finance Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Transport Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Intelligence Agency: No!
🇩🇪 Counterintelligence Agency: No!
🇪🇺 EU Commission: No!

🇩🇪 Chancellor @OlafScholz : Yes! China can buy it. I am forcing through the sale of this critical infrastructure and am overruling all ministers and all German security agencies to do what the Chinese dictator wants.
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1583039861447331840

Citizen Scholz earns 5 CCP social credit points and a free coffee in the Peoples Port of Shangburg

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

You don't need to turn people into active, knowing traitors to turn them into "useful idiots".

That's certainly true. For example there are many people who act as useful idiots by undermining election results they don't like, thereby doing Putin's work for him in two ways: by eroding confidence in the democratic process and by exaggerating his power.

BartholomewRoberts said:

MarqueeMark said:

Russian columns leaving Kherson. Given they are well within HIMARS range, wonder if there has been a local deal done between the two sides - take your men (but not your heavy weaponry) over the river without destroying Kherson, and in turn we will not destroy you...?

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1582902740727959553

Isn't this what's behind the "evacuation" of civilians from Kherson.

Telling the Ukrainians that they're using Ukraine's own citizens as a human shield, so that Ukrainian forces won't shoot at them.

One suggestion is that the Russians are going to blow the dam.

I think it is simpler - a lot of Russians came to Ukraine after 2014, literally to take possession.

What future do you think they have? Living in a home taken from a Ukrainian. Working in a job in a company taken, very often from a Ukrainian.

According to Russian propaganda, the Ukrainians are Nazi savages who will chop people up for LOLs.

The senior Russian people and families have left already. Now the middle ranking…

noneoftheabove said:

Scott_xP said:

NEW 👀 My analysis of the crisis engulfing th Government

Why you shouldn't write off Liz Truss just yet

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/20/why-shouldnt-write-liz-truss-just-yet/

Her best bet now is surely to make up that she was indeed recruited by Paddy Ashdown as a sleeper agent to break up the Tory party, once and for all. Flips her in the history books from the worst PM ever to a key successful historical figure......

Ashdown worked for the Secret Service at one time, I think.

Truss 22 exit matched as low as 1.12

Last price matched 1.15

noneoftheabove said:

Scott_xP said:

NEW 👀 My analysis of the crisis engulfing th Government

Why you shouldn't write off Liz Truss just yet

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/20/why-shouldnt-write-liz-truss-just-yet/

Her best bet now is surely to make up that she was indeed recruited by Paddy Ashdown as a sleeper agent to break up the Tory party, once and for all. Flips her in the history books from the worst PM ever to a key successful historical figure......

It would certainly make the standard Delphic [edit] polling question "Which PM did the best job for her party" even harder to interpret.

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Driver said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

LostPassword said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

LostPassword said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

StuartDickson said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

AlistairM said:

Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.

The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584

Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?

It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!

During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.

Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.

Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.

The telly was pretty boring in them days.

Morning all.

I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.

What *were* they talking about?

(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)

Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121

Any odds on HIM resigning?

Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.

Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.

Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.

I wouldn't want Liz Truss to be making important decisions if the Russians are cutting our subsea cables, or do vindicate Leon's wildest fears.

Wallace will see it as his duty to stay in his post and do his job.

Liz Truss in her last (perhaps for all time?) PMQs pledged to maintain MILITARY aid to UKR at current levels (how reassuring!) but rather pointedly said NOTHING about non-military aid, which is clearly just as significant.

What she said is:

We must make sure that Ukraine wins. It can win, it will win, and it must win.

Your attempts to cast some doubt on her - and the UK's - support for Ukraine are laughable.

Truss may THINK she's supporting the UKR, but then she likely thinks she's supporting the UK.

OK, then, since you know so much.

What should the UK be doing to support Ukraine that it currently isn't?

Beibheirli_C said:

williamglenn said:

@NadineDorries
One person was elected by the British public with a manifesto and a mandate until January ‘25.
If Liz Truss is no longer PM there can be no coronation of previously failed candidates.

MPs must demand return of @BorisJohnson - if not it has to be leadership election or a GE.

It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy.

A coronation is the transfer of power out of the hands of the people and into the offices of a few already extremely powerful men in grey suits. It would be an abomination

https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1583033679990861825

I wonder how many Tories would join Ms Dorries in crashing the party if they cannot have Boris back?

Or is this just a "frighten the horses" variation using a GE rather than the Farage bogeyman.

Isn't he theoretically going to have the whip removed anyway? Also, he's currently demonstrating his legendary powers to connect with the electorate by taking a luxury holiday in the Caribbean.

Scott_xP said:

NEW: Understand One Nation Conservative MPs have been meeting this morning to try and coalesce around a single candidate to replace Liz Truss. Conversations ongoing and no agreement yet. But active moves afoot to decide upon one single successor.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1583042138564009984

Two of the continual problems the Tory wets have is illustrated by this post.

1) They think they are the party. Despite being constant rebels.
2) They spend so much time talking (and disagreeing) amongst themselves, and to the media, that they forget how to talk to the membership, or beat the other wings of the party.

Final hope for my Truss exit lays is that Braverman delivers such a sufficiently blistering speech it stirs the blood of the Tory right and delays any new PM into the new year as a contest is forced.

Hey I've got to have straws somewhere.

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

StuartDickson said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

AlistairM said:

Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.

The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584

Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?

It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!

During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.

Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.

Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.

The telly was pretty boring in them days.

Morning all.

I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.

What *were* they talking about?

Norway. Norway. Norway. NORWAY!

The Norway story is f*cking scary. @Leon needs to look at it. It's more live right now, at this very moment, than considerations regarding tactical nukes.

I am not at all convinced that any of the six seven people arrested in Norway apart from Vitaly Rustanov actually currently reside in Russia.

(Edit: I had to change six to seven. Andrey Yakunin, citizen of Russia and Britain, resident in Italy, has now also been arrested. Detention cells in northern Norway appear to be filling up fast. WATCH NORWAY. THIS STORY WILL DEVELOP.)

Wallace and Austin may also have discussed Iranian and Israeli potential or actual sales to the respective sides in the conflict.

As regards drones reportedly used against Ukraine, according to the west they are Iranian Shahed-136 drones painted with the marking "Geran-2" in Russian. What I would like to know is whether that is actually credible. Leaving aside the specifics of this conflict, why bother repainting weapons with your own markings when a) the eyes of the world are on the warzone, and b) their entire look is distinctive? Who are Russian forces supposed to be trying to kid? Or are these drones perhaps being produced in Russia but on an Iranian model? That's the kind of thing that happens with many weapons, including for example Kalashnikov rifles. Intellectual property ain't much respected.

Drones were a major factor in the 2020 war between Azerbaijan and Armenia which Azerbaijan won. Azerbaijan was supplied by Turkey and Israel; Armenia, by Russia and Iran.

ping said:

Pulpstar said:

ping said:

Truss 22 exit matched as low as 1.12

Last price matched 1.15

Yes yes I know my position is in desperate trouble.

Sympathies.

Looks to me like the market has got a little carried away with itself. But who knows?

My balls aren’t big enough to lay.

Thankfully, I’m all green, but I built up a big position on 2024&5 at crap odds.

Oh well. Are you nursing a serious loss?

430 or so I think. Made just under 900 on Truss getting the job so all's fair I suppose.
The worst part is I think she'd have genuinely made it if MPs hadn't acted like such arseholes in the lobby last night.
I'm blaming Alexander Stafford - having a blazing row with the whips in full view of Labour was always going to be a terrible look.

Scott_xP said:

NEW: Understand One Nation Conservative MPs have been meeting this morning to try and coalesce around a single candidate to replace Liz Truss. Conversations ongoing and no agreement yet. But active moves afoot to decide upon one single successor.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1583042138564009984

They can have their meeting in a telephone box. Johnson and his Brexit Boys got rid of all the one nation Conservatives.

The ERG are apparently threatening legal action if the 1922 committee change the rules to allow a coronation .

I do wish they’d just fxck off and start their own party .

AlistairM said:

What is really annoying me at the moment is people saying Truss is "in office but not in power" and smirking because they are so clever. Come up with something new!

Something new? You may be in the wrong place? This is a forum where we dogmatically cling to the same tenuous positions on repeat whether evidence is in our favour or against.

Beibheirli_C said:

williamglenn said:

@NadineDorries
One person was elected by the British public with a manifesto and a mandate until January ‘25.
If Liz Truss is no longer PM there can be no coronation of previously failed candidates.

MPs must demand return of @BorisJohnson - if not it has to be leadership election or a GE.

It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy.

A coronation is the transfer of power out of the hands of the people and into the offices of a few already extremely powerful men in grey suits. It would be an abomination

https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1583033679990861825

I wonder how many Tories would join Ms Dorries in crashing the party if they cannot have Boris back?

Or is this just a "frighten the horses" variation using a GE rather than the Farage bogeyman.

"It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy" - good grief, Nadine. Calm down.
British democracy - like many democracies - works imperfectly and is held together with string and wishful thinking. It doesn't work instantly. But it still works. Compare Britain with any genuine non-democracy and try that sentence again. Britain isn't Russia. It isn't even Hungary.
What we are seeing at the moment is what happens when there is no consensus in parliament. It isn't pretty. But it isn't undemocratic.

LostPassword said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

LostPassword said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

StuartDickson said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

AlistairM said:

Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.

The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584

Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?

It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!

During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.

Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.

Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.

The telly was pretty boring in them days.

Morning all.

I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.

What *were* they talking about?

(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)

Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121

Any odds on HIM resigning?

Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.

Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.

Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.

Tens of billions "lost" in "market reaction" to Truss-Kwarteng budget.
Billions spent in supporting Ukraine against Russia.
Billions spent on royal funeral.

No particular difficulties for the Treasury, the Bank of England, the MoD or any other ministry. True, that. But the missing fact: it's not their own money they're spending! It's ours!

One thing is true, as any criminologist knows. If they're not stopped, they'll keep on doing it.

kinabalu said:

On the grounds of it's good to get out of your silo and expose yourself to different views I caught a bit of David Campbell Bannerman on GB News yesterday. He detects in all this Truss chaos the unmistakable hand of "corporate WEF globalists" seeking revenge for Brexit. Really seemed to think that. Quite passionate about it. Then it was back to my silo. Least I've proved I can do it.

Anyone who talks about the WEF as if it is some kind of central committee of the illuminati lizard people globalist cabal, rather than just skiing and TED talks for bored billionaires and desperate wannabes, immediately signals their insanity. Guys, if there was some kind of secret globalist conspiracy (spoiler alert: there isn't) then they wouldn't do it at a series of public seminars.

AlistairM said:

What is really annoying me at the moment is people saying Truss is "in office but not in power" and smirking because they are so clever. Come up with something new!

I came up with "Liztopian nightmare".

Casino_Royale said:

Pulpstar said:

Final hope for my Truss exit lays is that Braverman delivers such a sufficiently blistering speech it stirs the blood of the Tory right and delays any new PM into the new year as a contest is forced.

Hey I've got to have straws somewhere.

Maybe Steiner's counterattack will bring it all under control?

Fegelein! Bring me Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein!

Cookie said:

Beibheirli_C said:

williamglenn said:

@NadineDorries
One person was elected by the British public with a manifesto and a mandate until January ‘25.
If Liz Truss is no longer PM there can be no coronation of previously failed candidates.

MPs must demand return of @BorisJohnson - if not it has to be leadership election or a GE.

It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy.

A coronation is the transfer of power out of the hands of the people and into the offices of a few already extremely powerful men in grey suits. It would be an abomination

https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1583033679990861825

I wonder how many Tories would join Ms Dorries in crashing the party if they cannot have Boris back?

Or is this just a "frighten the horses" variation using a GE rather than the Farage bogeyman.

"It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy" - good grief, Nadine. Calm down.
British democracy - like many democracies - works imperfectly and is held together with string and wishful thinking. It doesn't work instantly. But it still works. Compare Britain with any genuine non-democracy and try that sentence again. Britain isn't Russia. It isn't even Hungary.
What we are seeing at the moment is what happens when there is no consensus in parliament. It isn't pretty. But it isn't undemocratic.

There’s a mechanism for dealing with that though - a general election.

nico679 said:

The ERG are apparently threatening legal action if the 1922 committee change the rules to allow a coronation .

I do wish they’d just fxck off and start their own party .

They don't need to, they've already taken over the Conservative Party.

FrancisUrquhart said:

A married Labour MP is being investigated over sexual harassment allegations which could lead to him being thrown out of the Commons.

The male MP is being investigated under parliament’s independent complaints and grievance scheme, The Times understands. A report on his behaviour is due tomorrow.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-mp-accused-of-harassment-56q3n0sdb

Would it perhaps be quicker to investigate the MPs suspected of not being involved in anything dodgy?

Gallowgate said:

Cookie said:

Beibheirli_C said:

williamglenn said:

@NadineDorries
One person was elected by the British public with a manifesto and a mandate until January ‘25.
If Liz Truss is no longer PM there can be no coronation of previously failed candidates.

MPs must demand return of @BorisJohnson - if not it has to be leadership election or a GE.

It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy.

A coronation is the transfer of power out of the hands of the people and into the offices of a few already extremely powerful men in grey suits. It would be an abomination

https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1583033679990861825

I wonder how many Tories would join Ms Dorries in crashing the party if they cannot have Boris back?

Or is this just a "frighten the horses" variation using a GE rather than the Farage bogeyman.

"It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy" - good grief, Nadine. Calm down.
British democracy - like many democracies - works imperfectly and is held together with string and wishful thinking. It doesn't work instantly. But it still works. Compare Britain with any genuine non-democracy and try that sentence again. Britain isn't Russia. It isn't even Hungary.
What we are seeing at the moment is what happens when there is no consensus in parliament. It isn't pretty. But it isn't undemocratic.

There’s a mechanism for dealing with that though - a general election.

This lot are one letter away. They've given us a general erection.

Things just seem to be getting more and more serious in Ukraine.

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

LostPassword said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

StuartDickson said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

AlistairM said:

Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.

The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584

Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?

It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!

During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.

Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.

Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.

The telly was pretty boring in them days.

Morning all.

I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.

What *were* they talking about?

(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)

Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121

Any odds on HIM resigning?

Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.

Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.

Everyone's always looking to Wallace, but he never does anything on these issues. He doesn't resign, he doesn't stand as leader.

wooliedyed said:

nico679 said:

The ERG are apparently threatening legal action if the 1922 committee change the rules to allow a coronation .

I do wish they’d just fxck off and start their own party .

Remove the whip from the lot of them, force the issue

I'm sceptical of the idea that the ERG even exist in the way many journos and commentators and other Twitter readers think.

Iain Duncan-Smith, Michael Gove, David Davis, Andrea Leadsom, Suella Braverman, Sajid Javid, James Cleverly, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Penny Mordaunt, etc. - form a party within a party, do they? I don't think so.

Casino_Royale said:

Pulpstar said:

Final hope for my Truss exit lays is that Braverman delivers such a sufficiently blistering speech it stirs the blood of the Tory right and delays any new PM into the new year as a contest is forced.

Hey I've got to have straws somewhere.

Maybe Steiner's counterattack will bring it all under control?

Steiner didn't have enough backbenchers! The contest never took place!

nico679 said:

The ERG are apparently threatening legal action if the 1922 committee change the rules to allow a coronation .

I do wish they’d just fxck off and start their own party .

And this is why the party is at risk of fatally destroying itself. These people are so desperate to get Suella Braverman as Prime Minister (an unpleasant individual who is even more unsuited to the job than Liz Truss) that they want to force the issue to a membership vote while the country burns.

rcs1000 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

rcs1000 said:

AlistairM said:

Strange goings on in Germany.

Treason!!

🇨🇳 China: We want to buy part of the port of Hamburg.

🇩🇪 Economic Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Interior Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Defense Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Foreign Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Finance Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Transport Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Intelligence Agency: No!
🇩🇪 Counterintelligence Agency: No!
🇪🇺 EU Commission: No!

🇩🇪 Chancellor @OlafScholz : Yes! China can buy it. I am forcing through the sale of this critical infrastructure and am overruling all ministers and all German security agencies to do what the Chinese dictator wants.
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1583039861447331840

China won't actually control the Port of Hamburg, though.

Now, my memory may be wrong, but the Port of Hamburg was (or still is) a publicly quoted company on the German Stock Exchange. And the purchaser is not the Government of China, but a Hong Kong listed publicly quoted company, Cosco Ports. And it isn't actually proposed that Cosco will buy all of the Port of Hamburg, but merely that it will take a 35% stake.

Isn't Cosco another one of these companies that in theory is publicly traded but in reality the Chinese state has (indirectly) a huge controlling stake?

Yes: albeit it is not Cosco (which is Shanghai listed company) that is purchasing the stake, but its Ports Holdings subsidiary which is listed in HK.

But I think the more important point is that it isn't proposed that they own the port - it's proposed that they buy a 35% stake in a public company. So long as they have no special rights relative to other shareholders, then they don't really have anything approaching control.

The clue is that when they get blocked on buying anything, the Chinese government weighs in, very rapidly.

I know turkeys don't vote for an early Christmas, but really do the Tory MPs collectively have so little self-awareness that they think this shambles can continue?

Can they conceivably think that by desperately clinging to power, with no common notion of what they want to do with it, they are acting in the best interest of the country?

DJ41 said:

LostPassword said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

LostPassword said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

StuartDickson said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

AlistairM said:

Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.

The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584

Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?

It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!

During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.

Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.

Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.

The telly was pretty boring in them days.

Morning all.

I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.

What *were* they talking about?

(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)

Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121

Any odds on HIM resigning?

Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.

Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.

Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.

Tens of billions "lost" in "market reaction" to Truss-Kwarteng budget.
Billions spent in supporting Ukraine against Russia.
Billions spent on royal funeral.

No particular difficulties for the Treasury, the Bank of England, the MoD or any other ministry. True, that. But the missing fact: it's not their own money they're spending! It's ours!

One thing is true, as any criminologist knows. If they're not stopped, they'll keep on doing it.

The royal funeral is thought to have cost between 5 and 10 million... so definitely not "Billions".

AlistairM said:

No 10 confirm PM meeting Brady now
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1583047225164279808

....

RochdalePioneers said:

wooliedyed said:

nico679 said:

The ERG are apparently threatening legal action if the 1922 committee change the rules to allow a coronation .

I do wish they’d just fxck off and start their own party .

Remove the whip from the lot of them, force the issue

Whom would do the whip removing? I agree that if they need to be excised to allow the party to stay in government then do it. But who has authority - isn't it the PM?

So -
1. The party agrees its Sunak / Hunt / Mordaunt
2. The 22 hand the pearl-handled revolver to Truss
3. Truss tells King Chuck to call for Mordaunt / Sunak / Hunt
4. The ring is kissed
5. First action of the new leader is to remove the whip from the ERG

Something along those lines yep, banking on them not supportimg a VONC until theyve arranged a party structure to fight the next election, or get Starmer to agree to hold off until the New Year with the promise of a March election. Give team centrist a short period to steady things
Not saying i support such things but 8ts the kind of barminess i can see being tried in these weird times

Pulpstar said:

ping said:

Pulpstar said:

ping said:

Truss 22 exit matched as low as 1.12

Last price matched 1.15

Yes yes I know my position is in desperate trouble.

Sympathies.

Looks to me like the market has got a little carried away with itself. But who knows?

My balls aren’t big enough to lay.

Thankfully, I’m all green, but I built up a big position on 2024&5 at crap odds.

Oh well. Are you nursing a serious loss?

430 or so I think. Made just under 900 on Truss getting the job so all's fair I suppose.
The worst part is I think she'd have genuinely made it if MPs hadn't acted like such arseholes in the lobby last night.
I'm blaming Alexander Stafford - having a blazing row with the whips in full view of Labour was always going to be a terrible look.

Ouch.

Not over yet. These muppets couldn't coronate a chicken. She might stretch on into the new year whilst a contest runs.

Fail of the day. A Russian defence ministry expert doesn't realise he is already on air and says: "Just don't ask too much about these Iranian drones. We all know they are Iranian, but the authorities don't want to admit it".
https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1583042663426584578

Sunil_Prasannan said:

AlistairM said:

What is really annoying me at the moment is people saying Truss is "in office but not in power" and smirking because they are so clever. Come up with something new!

I came up with "Liztopian nightmare".

Trussterfuck with zugswang.

The lettuce wins.

When is the next poll out?

Beibheirli_C said:

Scott_xP said:

🚨🚨🚨 I was told an hour ago that there was no meeting today between Liz Truss and 1922 chairman Graham Brady in the No10 diary.

Now see the below - photographer who works in Downing Street all day says Brady just went in. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/20/liz-truss-news-resign-pm-conservative-party-general-election/ https://twitter.com/politicalpics/status/1583046477928009728

And through the back door!

Fnarrr

I just did a little bit more research, and it appears that the Hamburg story is even less than I previously though.

Cosco Ports is not proposing buying 35% of The Port of Hamburg, but is proposing taking a 35% stake in Hamburg's Tollerot container terminal - which is the smallest of the container terminals in the Port.

See: https://maritime-executive.com/article/geopolitics-may-slow-down-china-cosco-s-plans-at-port-of-hamburg

Chris said:

I know turkeys don't vote for an early Christmas, but really do the Tory MPs collectively have so little self-awareness that they think this shambles can continue?

Can they conceivably think that by desperately clinging to power, with no common notion of what they want to do with it, they are acting in the best interest of the country?

Well, no, but there's a bit of a fallacy at work here: that of assuming a lot of individuals are capable of making up a collective mind. It's entirely possible that most of all Tory MPs have firm and fixed views on what should be done. But they just don't have the same firm and fixed view.

It's similar to when Europe used to chide us to 'make up our minds' whether we wanted to be in Europe or not. Many or most of us HAD made up our minds. But because we were 60 million individuals, not one collective hive mind, the appearance to someone who expected us to think as one on the issue was of mad indecision.

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

The lettuce wins.

Has she gone?

I’ve been told I can spend my winnings by somebody.

NEW THREAD

AlistairM said:

Fail of the day. A Russian defence ministry expert doesn't realise he is already on air and says: "Just don't ask too much about these Iranian drones. We all know they are Iranian, but the authorities don't want to admit it".
https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1583042663426584578

Don't tell him, копье.

bondegezou said:

DJ41 said:

LostPassword said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

LostPassword said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

StuartDickson said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

AlistairM said:

Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.

The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584

Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?

It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!

During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.

Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.

Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.

The telly was pretty boring in them days.

Morning all.

I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.

What *were* they talking about?

(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)

Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121

Any odds on HIM resigning?

Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.

Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.

Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.

Tens of billions "lost" in "market reaction" to Truss-Kwarteng budget.
Billions spent in supporting Ukraine against Russia.
Billions spent on royal funeral.

No particular difficulties for the Treasury, the Bank of England, the MoD or any other ministry. True, that. But the missing fact: it's not their own money they're spending! It's ours!

One thing is true, as any criminologist knows. If they're not stopped, they'll keep on doing it.

The royal funeral is thought to have cost between 5 and 10 million... so definitely not "Billions".

The queen mother's funeral 20 years ago was ~£5m.

This time there was a bank holiday. The cost in lost output of a one-day bank holiday is ~£1.4 bn or ~£0.8bn depending on whether you listen to the government or the Big Four.

https://www.consultancy.uk/news/31174/research-government-overestimates-the-cost-of-bank-holidays

Everyone says there can't be another leadership contest, but there's no sign of a coronation or an agreed candidate. Truss can't hold on much longer. Ergo, there will have to be a leadership contest. Truss will presumably stay in office. (There were plenty of reasons for Johnson not to, and he did.) If there's a membership vote, then presumably Truss remains PM until 2023.

So, is it worth betting on a '23 exit?

DJ41 said:

bondegezou said:

DJ41 said:

LostPassword said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

LostPassword said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

StuartDickson said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

AlistairM said:

Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.

The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584

Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?

It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!

During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.

Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.

Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.

The telly was pretty boring in them days.

Morning all.

I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.

What *were* they talking about?

(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)

Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121

Any odds on HIM resigning?

Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.

Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.

Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.

Tens of billions "lost" in "market reaction" to Truss-Kwarteng budget.
Billions spent in supporting Ukraine against Russia.
Billions spent on royal funeral.

No particular difficulties for the Treasury, the Bank of England, the MoD or any other ministry. True, that. But the missing fact: it's not their own money they're spending! It's ours!

One thing is true, as any criminologist knows. If they're not stopped, they'll keep on doing it.

The royal funeral is thought to have cost between 5 and 10 million... so definitely not "Billions".

The queen mother's funeral 20 years ago was ~£5m.

The cost in lost output of a one-day bank holiday is ~£1.4 bn or ~£0.8bn depending on whether you listen to the government or the Big Four.

https://www.consultancy.uk/news/31174/research-government-overestimates-the-cost-of-bank-holidays

The funeral did not cost billions. It is possible that there was some diminution in economic output caused by having an additional bank holiday.

But that is very far from certain: December has two public holidays and is also the peak of annual economic output.