As they say the “optics” don’t look good – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Another blistering attack on this shambolic government by Yvette Cooper.1
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Some Conservative MPs are just ultra-loyal to their Party's regime of rules and figureheads. Weird, but they refuse to question.Casino_Royale said:
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.
Others are just pig-shit thick. Including plenty in the new intake.4 -
Andrea Leadsom could organise another march on parliament.Casino_Royale said:
They need to get on with it rather than steadily dribbling out backbenchers every few hours.Scott_xP said:Latest: senior Tories think we may be into the final hours of the Truss government.
Several ministers are on resignation watch, no confidence letters are flowing into Sir Graham Brady.
One minister: “The government has become a total farce.”
https://www.ft.com/content/639adc81-7805-4e2b-9eff-338c7cc712220 -
In terms of fessing up to my previous views on Truss, I’ve taken a look back and actually pleasantly surprised that I was calling out it was more likely than not she would flop. Where I was more incorrect was on having a massive downer on Sunak and thinking Truss would do a better job than him (laughable now):
July 26th
July 27th
“So there is a chance that with the right advice that she actually finds her feet and turns into a much more formidable opponent.
I don’t think it’s likely. But she’s got more chance of impressing on the upside than Sunak.“
5 September
“I think Truss will fail because I think events are too much for pretty much any PM to handle. That said, I still think she was a better choice than Sunak. A dice roll, but one the Tories probably had to make”
(Hmm… not convinced about that one now…)
6 September
“ My prediction - by October/November the narrative will be “oh didn’t we underestimate Liz, she’s doing a really good job in challenging circumstances” before it all implodes next year.”
(Obviously wrong! But at least I got the implosion right - just quicker than I ever thought possible).1 -
Er, no way Mark Twain (ak Samuel Langhorne Clemens) was giving battlefield tours during the Crimean War. He wasn't yet a cub riverboat pilot when the war ended (1856)MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
He visited Crimea in 1867, over ten years AFTER the end of the Crimean War.
https://victorianweb.org/history/crimea/beck/2n1.html
"Twain himself had visited the Crimea in the summer of 1867 when he went on his first European excursion (The Innocents Abroad, Ch. 35). He had a good idea of the various battlefields, even going so far as to make a sketch of them (see Notebooks and Journals, I, 404).
For the most part, Twain emphasized he desolation, still visible many years after the war had ended. But he also spoke respectfully of the Russian defenders of Sevastopol, whose "desperate valor could not avail, and they had to give up at last." No hint here of Russians turning tail at the sight of a British regiment. Earlier on this voyage he had seen "the white-moustached old Crimean soldier Canrobert, marshal of France," on parade in Paris (Ch. 13).0 -
It's Brendan Clarke Smith from the Cabinet Office, answering because "its a breach of security" so he's batting away any questions on policy as not his remit.CarlottaVance said:Urgent Question now. Not Shapps answering.
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I have made this point repeatedly. So many of the 2019 Tories are thick as mince. They are great at repeating slogans but that's all they can do. Which isn't helpful if you need MPs to actually become ministers and make informed decisions.MarqueeMark said:
Some Conservative MPs are just ultra-loyal to their Party's regime of rules and figureheads. Weird, but they refuse to question.Casino_Royale said:
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.
Others are just pig-shit thick. Including plenty in the new intake.1 -
Wow! What a bunch of xenophobes on the Conservative benches. Questions along the lines of "Can you assure us that the new HS will keep forriners out?"2
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SO how does the voting record as published in Hansard get changed, to reflect that people voted in a division who apparently did NOT go through a lobby in the normal fashion?
As with the (alleged) Prime Minister and her (sometimes) Chief Whip? Who are now both listed as votes against the Fracking Ban motion, but last night were conspicuously absent (if not exactly AWOL) from the voting?0 -
Make sure you hang on to that, Twelve. It'll be handy when the PB War Crimes Tribunal starts its work.numbertwelve said:In terms of fessing up to my previous views on Truss, I’ve taken a look back and actually pleasantly surprised that I was calling out it was more likely than not she would flop. Where I was more incorrect was on having a massive downer on Sunak and thinking Truss would do a better job than him (laughable now):
July 26th
July 27th
“So there is a chance that with the right advice that she actually finds her feet and turns into a much more formidable opponent.
I don’t think it’s likely. But she’s got more chance of impressing on the upside than Sunak.“
5 September
“I think Truss will fail because I think events are too much for pretty much any PM to handle. That said, I still think she was a better choice than Sunak. A dice roll, but one the Tories probably had to make”
(Hmm… not convinced about that one now…)
6 September
“ My prediction - by October/November the narrative will be “oh didn’t we underestimate Liz, she’s doing a really good job in challenging circumstances” before it all implodes next year.”
(Obviously wrong! But at least I got the implosion right - just quicker than I ever thought possible).5 -
A few years back, I had a real downer om a prospective Johnson PMship, due to his performance as MoL. I think I was right, and unusually for the right reasons. I did not have such a massive negative on Truss, and was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt in case she surprised on the upside.numbertwelve said:In terms of fessing up to my previous views on Truss, I’ve taken a look back and actually pleasantly surprised that I was calling out it was more likely than not she would flop. Where I was more incorrect was on having a massive downer on Sunak and thinking Truss would do a better job than him (laughable now):
July 26th
July 27th
“So there is a chance that with the right advice that she actually finds her feet and turns into a much more formidable opponent.
I don’t think it’s likely. But she’s got more chance of impressing on the upside than Sunak.“
5 September
“I think Truss will fail because I think events are too much for pretty much any PM to handle. That said, I still think she was a better choice than Sunak. A dice roll, but one the Tories probably had to make”
(Hmm… not convinced about that one now…)
6 September
“ My prediction - by October/November the narrative will be “oh didn’t we underestimate Liz, she’s doing a really good job in challenging circumstances” before it all implodes next year.”
(Obviously wrong! But at least I got the implosion right - just quicker than I ever thought possible).
Ooops.
Then again, I was a Mordaunt guy. I still think she was the best option out of the lot of them.3 -
On the grounds of it's good to get out of your silo and expose yourself to different views I caught a bit of David Campbell Bannerman on GB News yesterday. He detects in all this Truss chaos the unmistakable hand of "corporate WEF globalists" seeking revenge for Brexit. Really seemed to think that. Quite passionate about it. Then it was back to my silo. Least I've proved I can do it.2
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Yes, there's nothing like complete and total anarchy at Westminster for putting off people in Scotland from the idea of independence.Slackbladder said:
Then she faffs it all up against the wall by making it all about 'independence'.StuartDickson said:
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.2 -
As mentioned earlier, clever people are generally too clever to want to go into politics in the social media age. We get the politicians we deserve. And the only reason you can say "2019 Tories" is that the 2019 Labour new intake was rather small...RochdalePioneers said:
I have made this point repeatedly. So many of the 2019 Tories are thick as mince. They are great at repeating slogans but that's all they can do. Which isn't helpful if you need MPs to actually become ministers and make informed decisions.MarqueeMark said:
Some Conservative MPs are just ultra-loyal to their Party's regime of rules and figureheads. Weird, but they refuse to question.Casino_Royale said:
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.
Others are just pig-shit thick. Including plenty in the new intake.1 -
So what's wrong with the Tory selection committees? Dropping into a safe seat with a role in politics for life (well, now to be cut short at the next election!) - surely there should be decent, competent, sensible people to choose from?RochdalePioneers said:
I have made this point repeatedly. So many of the 2019 Tories are thick as mince. They are great at repeating slogans but that's all they can do. Which isn't helpful if you need MPs to actually become ministers and make informed decisions.MarqueeMark said:
Some Conservative MPs are just ultra-loyal to their Party's regime of rules and figureheads. Weird, but they refuse to question.Casino_Royale said:
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.
Others are just pig-shit thick. Including plenty in the new intake.
If the only question they get asked is "are you prepared to impose the hardest of Brexits on the country regardless of the evidence and damage it would do?", then QED.1 -
News that Russians are starting to get out of Enerhodar. That's the town where the big nuclear plant is based. I hope it has been made clear to Putin that there will be big consequences if anything goes wrong there.0
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Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/15830122591727411210 -
Russian columns leaving Kherson. Given they are well within HIMARS range, wonder if there has been a local deal done between the two sides - take your men (but not your heavy weaponry) over the river without destroying Kherson, and in turn we will not destroy you...?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/15829027407279595532 -
This is what happens when you have electronic voting. And this is with only 640-odd people eligible to vote, where errors in the record are easy to find and correct.SeaShantyIrish2 said:SO how does the voting record as published in Hansard get changed, to reflect that people voted in a division who apparently did NOT go through a lobby in the normal fashion?
As with the (alleged) Prime Minister and her (sometimes) Chief Whip? Who are now both listed as votes against the Fracking Ban motion, but last night were conspicuously absent (if not exactly AWOL) from the voting?0 -
I see the Beeb reporter is having Religious Protestor problems...
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That BBC archaeologist BritNat weirdo is also a “corporate WEF globalist” obsessive. His Twitter feed is a record of his descent into madnesskinabalu said:On the grounds of it's good to get out of your silo and expose yourself to different views I caught a bit of David Campbell Bannerman on GB News yesterday. He detects in all this Truss chaos the unmistakable hand of "corporate WEF globalists" seeking revenge for Brexit. Really seemed to think that. Quite passionate about it. Then it was back to my silo. Least I've proved I can do it.
Neil Oliver1 -
Isn't the cutting of Shetlands cable clearly the work of the CIA? (IRONY ALERT!)
I mean, that was the "obvious" conclusion jumped to by some of the leading pundits on PB when the Nordstream pipeline(s) were sabotaged?
Seems that standards keep on slipping, on PB as well in UK "government".3 -
The British Nationalists have predicted the demise of the Scottish self-determination movement on thousands of occasions. They have a 100% record to date. 100% wrong.Alistair said:
Yes, there's nothing like complete and total anarchy at Westminster for putting off people in Scotland from the idea of independence.Slackbladder said:
Then she faffs it all up against the wall by making it all about 'independence'.StuartDickson said:
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.0 -
Did anybody actually see Liz Truss or Wendy Morton in the Division Lobby casting their votes?Driver said:
This is what happens when you have electronic voting. And this is with only 640-odd people eligible to vote, where errors in the record are easy to find and correct.SeaShantyIrish2 said:SO how does the voting record as published in Hansard get changed, to reflect that people voted in a division who apparently did NOT go through a lobby in the normal fashion?
As with the (alleged) Prime Minister and her (sometimes) Chief Whip? Who are now both listed as votes against the Fracking Ban motion, but last night were conspicuously absent (if not exactly AWOL) from the voting?0 -
I'd imagine a couple of colleagues assure the officials that they definitely saw you in the lobby, and the official swallows any doubts as a favour to powerful people.SeaShantyIrish2 said:SO how does the voting record as published in Hansard get changed, to reflect that people voted in a division who apparently did NOT go through a lobby in the normal fashion?
As with the (alleged) Prime Minister and her (sometimes) Chief Whip? Who are now both listed as votes against the Fracking Ban motion, but last night were conspicuously absent (if not exactly AWOL) from the voting?
After all, the vote is won, there's no question they'd both have supported the government, so adding them to the list just saves a little embarassment.
I suspect that Morton has been added in because she was seen with Truss throughout and it looks better for both of them.
The alternative - that the voting machine fails to record votes and that it happened twice in succession (assuming they went through together) is both unlikely and concerning, for other votes. Surely it gives some sort of confirmation - like a clear beep - when the vote is recorded (like a cashless credit card, which we're all used to), and they will be using this system countless times each week.0 -
Has he called anyone a c…?Beibheirli_C said:I see the Beeb reporter is having Religious Protestor problems...
There were two yesterday: C4 + Peston. Rule of three.0 -
I love how the BritNats think that utter chaos in London is somehow a big plus for the Union.Alistair said:
Yes, there's nothing like complete and total anarchy at Westminster for putting off people in Scotland from the idea of independence.Slackbladder said:
Then she faffs it all up against the wall by making it all about 'independence'.StuartDickson said:
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.0 -
The Tories certainly need a massive distraction right now!LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/15830122591727411210 -
To be fair, Labour has a similar proportion of moon-howlers.... Just fewer in number.RochdalePioneers said:
I have made this point repeatedly. So many of the 2019 Tories are thick as mince. They are great at repeating slogans but that's all they can do. Which isn't helpful if you need MPs to actually become ministers and make informed decisions.MarqueeMark said:
Some Conservative MPs are just ultra-loyal to their Party's regime of rules and figureheads. Weird, but they refuse to question.Casino_Royale said:
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.
Others are just pig-shit thick. Including plenty in the new intake.2 -
..0
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NEW 👀 My analysis of the crisis engulfing th Government
Why you shouldn't write off Liz Truss just yet
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/20/why-shouldnt-write-liz-truss-just-yet/0 -
If there are any MPs who are NOT sending letters in one wonders what would provoke them to do so.Scott_xP said:Latest: senior Tories think we may be into the final hours of the Truss government.
Several ministers are on resignation watch, no confidence letters are flowing into Sir Graham Brady.
One minister: “The government has become a total farce.”
https://www.ft.com/content/639adc81-7805-4e2b-9eff-338c7cc712224 -
Quite, though I'm startled to find out who is comparing Tory MPs to grice sharn.RochdalePioneers said:
I have made this point repeatedly. So many of the 2019 Tories are thick as mince. They are great at repeating slogans but that's all they can do. Which isn't helpful if you need MPs to actually become ministers and make informed decisions.MarqueeMark said:
Some Conservative MPs are just ultra-loyal to their Party's regime of rules and figureheads. Weird, but they refuse to question.Casino_Royale said:
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.
Others are just pig-shit thick. Including plenty in the new intake.1 -
Mordaunt both conceived and organised that march - a big black mark for her!williamglenn said:
Andrea Leadsom could organise another march on parliament.Casino_Royale said:
They need to get on with it rather than steadily dribbling out backbenchers every few hours.Scott_xP said:Latest: senior Tories think we may be into the final hours of the Truss government.
Several ministers are on resignation watch, no confidence letters are flowing into Sir Graham Brady.
One minister: “The government has become a total farce.”
https://www.ft.com/content/639adc81-7805-4e2b-9eff-338c7cc712220 -
Safe seats = party selection committees indulge their political obsessions free of any need to put a convincing capable candidate in front of the voters.MarqueeMark said:
To be fair, Labour has a similar proportion of moon-howlers.... Just fewer in number.RochdalePioneers said:
I have made this point repeatedly. So many of the 2019 Tories are thick as mince. They are great at repeating slogans but that's all they can do. Which isn't helpful if you need MPs to actually become ministers and make informed decisions.MarqueeMark said:
Some Conservative MPs are just ultra-loyal to their Party's regime of rules and figureheads. Weird, but they refuse to question.Casino_Royale said:
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.
Others are just pig-shit thick. Including plenty in the new intake.1 -
0
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My job is parallel to his historical interest, so I was around him once. His whole demeanor did remind me of mental illness. He wasn't even giving any political views. But his unblinking stare and self-enclosed intensity was very unnerving.StuartDickson said:
That BBC archaeologist BritNat weirdo is also a “corporate WEF globalist” obsessive. His Twitter feed is a record of his descent into madnesskinabalu said:On the grounds of it's good to get out of your silo and expose yourself to different views I caught a bit of David Campbell Bannerman on GB News yesterday. He detects in all this Truss chaos the unmistakable hand of "corporate WEF globalists" seeking revenge for Brexit. Really seemed to think that. Quite passionate about it. Then it was back to my silo. Least I've proved I can do it.
Neil Oliver0 -
Another 'Bring Back Boris' call from Dorries
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1583033679990861825?s=20&t=imNq-JFc5YBLkndpM1eSOg0 -
Latter.MarqueeMark said:
Expect the news to filter out....stjohn said:
Bean wondering that too. On what grounds?StuartDickson said:
Has Thérèse Coffey gone yet?edmundintokyo said:
I'm not prepared to concede defeat yet. Her cabinet is getting better every day.IanB2 said:
Very few, tbf - I think Barty, Leon "she'll surprise on the upside"..damus, and one other?StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
0 -
Out of historical interest, when was the first incident of an undersea cable being cut in war?
The earliest I know of was somebody cutting all the German owned cables in the Channel in 1914.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42367551
Were there any earlier occurrences?0 -
As yours truly keeps on saying - without serious refutation mind you - it's the Conservative and Disunionist Party.StuartDickson said:
I love how the BritNats think that utter chaos in London is somehow a big plus for the Union.Alistair said:
Yes, there's nothing like complete and total anarchy at Westminster for putting off people in Scotland from the idea of independence.Slackbladder said:
Then she faffs it all up against the wall by making it all about 'independence'.StuartDickson said:
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.1 -
James O'B - "The tyranny of the talentless...."0
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And the MPs elected to Parliament are the MPs elected to Parliament.TOPPING said:
A A Gill once famously said that there is not an "watching ironically" button to press when you tune in to trashy reality TV. The viewing figures are the viewing figures.Driver said:
Lots of people registered their protest vote at that election that should never have been.TOPPING said:
What if everyone who despised Farage voted for him. What if everyone who despised him had voted for UKIP in the UK. How come you get to register your protest vote but no one else is. You voted for someone who if not a racist enabled racism.BartholomewRoberts said:
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.
But you have principles and "absolute deal-breakers".
How many MPs did Farage get elected to Westminster in 2019?1 -
I'm sure there are several reliable witnesses.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Did anybody actually see Liz Truss or Wendy Morton in the Division Lobby casting their votes?Driver said:
This is what happens when you have electronic voting. And this is with only 640-odd people eligible to vote, where errors in the record are easy to find and correct.SeaShantyIrish2 said:SO how does the voting record as published in Hansard get changed, to reflect that people voted in a division who apparently did NOT go through a lobby in the normal fashion?
As with the (alleged) Prime Minister and her (sometimes) Chief Whip? Who are now both listed as votes against the Fracking Ban motion, but last night were conspicuously absent (if not exactly AWOL) from the voting?
Rees Mogg, for example.1 -
The usual stuff about safe for a year, and no agreed successor, but you could (and maybe Christopher Hope did) use the same reasons to say Boris was immovable.Scott_xP said:NEW 👀 My analysis of the crisis engulfing th Government
Why you shouldn't write off Liz Truss just yet
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/20/why-shouldnt-write-liz-truss-just-yet/1 -
14 MPs now publicly calling on truss to go. Thats eight more just this morning https://twitter.com/tomlarkinsky/status/15830327947871109120
-
And May....DecrepiterJohnL said:
The usual stuff about safe for a year, and no agreed successor, but you could (and maybe Christopher Hope did) use the same reasons to say Boris was immovable.Scott_xP said:NEW 👀 My analysis of the crisis engulfing th Government
Why you shouldn't write off Liz Truss just yet
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/20/why-shouldnt-write-liz-truss-just-yet/1 -
Very little discussion of this on Twitter.MarqueeMark said:Russian columns leaving Kherson. Given they are well within HIMARS range, wonder if there has been a local deal done between the two sides - take your men (but not your heavy weaponry) over the river without destroying Kherson, and in turn we will not destroy you...?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1582902740727959553
I wonder if it is D-Noticed (so to speak)0 -
Not sure what the Cons selection committees would have been like in Stoke on Trent and Nottinghamshire, did they really think they were picking actual seat winning MPs in places like Gedling....IanB2 said:
So what's wrong with the Tory selection committees? Dropping into a safe seat with a role in politics for life (well, now to be cut short at the next election!) - surely there should be decent, competent, sensible people to choose from?RochdalePioneers said:
I have made this point repeatedly. So many of the 2019 Tories are thick as mince. They are great at repeating slogans but that's all they can do. Which isn't helpful if you need MPs to actually become ministers and make informed decisions.MarqueeMark said:
Some Conservative MPs are just ultra-loyal to their Party's regime of rules and figureheads. Weird, but they refuse to question.Casino_Royale said:
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.
Others are just pig-shit thick. Including plenty in the new intake.
If the only question they get asked is "are you prepared to impose the hardest of Brexits on the country regardless of the evidence and damage it would do?", then QED.0 -
-
If Labour go ahead with this then they are making a rod for their own back. They are going to have very difficult choices to make and this will make it even harder.
the main news to come out of TUC is Keir Starmer promising to rip up Tory anti-strike legislation including the 2016 Trade Union Act
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/15830295994153451520 -
From wiki on 'misstatements':IanB2 said:
I'd imagine a couple of colleagues assure the officials that they definitely saw you in the lobby, and the official swallows any doubts as a favour to powerful people.SeaShantyIrish2 said:SO how does the voting record as published in Hansard get changed, to reflect that people voted in a division who apparently did NOT go through a lobby in the normal fashion?
As with the (alleged) Prime Minister and her (sometimes) Chief Whip? Who are now both listed as votes against the Fracking Ban motion, but last night were conspicuously absent (if not exactly AWOL) from the voting?
After all, the vote is won, there's no question they'd both have supported the government, so adding them to the list just saves a little embarassment.
I suspect that Morton has been added in because she was seen with Truss throughout and it looks better for both of them.
The alternative - that the voting machine fails to record votes and that it happened twice in succession (assuming they went through together) is both unlikely and concerning, for other votes. Surely it gives some sort of confirmation - like a clear beep - when the vote is recorded (like a cashless credit card, which we're all used to), and they will be using this system countless times each week.
Because Hansard is treated as accurate, there is a parliamentary convention whereby if a member of Parliament makes an inaccurate statement in Parliament, they must write a correction in the copy of Hansard kept in the House of Commons library.
Presumably there are security cameras in the lobbies?0 -
I think he has help.MikeL said:
Presumably she's going to try to stop all those MPs voting in a No Confidence vote.Scott_xP said:At 1:33am, another twist. A message from Downing St source to say it WAS a confidence vote - with consequences for those MPs who didn’t back the government lifting ban on fracking. https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1582936217632444418/photo/1
But as more than 40 Con MPs didn't support the Government, if she removes the whip from all of them then the Conservatives no longer have a majority.
The whole episode makes it even more breathtaking that Brady hasn't already acted.
Brady is as incompetent as Truss. He should not allow Truss to singlehandedly destroy the Conservative Party.
0 -
Her best bet now is surely to make up that she was indeed recruited by Paddy Ashdown as a sleeper agent to break up the Tory party, once and for all. Flips her in the history books from the worst PM ever to a key successful historical figure......Scott_xP said:NEW 👀 My analysis of the crisis engulfing th Government
Why you shouldn't write off Liz Truss just yet
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/20/why-shouldnt-write-liz-truss-just-yet/0 -
It was probably used plenty in that Braverman-Truss 90 minute screaming event.StuartDickson said:
Has he called anyone a c…?Beibheirli_C said:I see the Beeb reporter is having Religious Protestor problems...
There were two yesterday: C4 + Peston. Rule of three.
0 -
I feel pretty good about this August 5th post by me: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4061104/#Comment_4061104
The spotlight being off Boris and his non stop cavalcade of gaffes, grift and disasters is doing wonders for the polling gap.
Of course, once Truss starts up her cavalcade of disasters thing may not go as well.2 -
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.
0 -
And so Leadership Contest 2.0 begins - Tory MP Crispin Blunt calling for Jeremy Hunt to take over as prime minister 👇🏽 https://twitter.com/crispinblunt/status/15830348019297157140
-
Escalation by Russian Woke Trans Illegal Immigrant Alien AIs, surely?Selebian said:
Hmm. Do you think he'd go for Russian escalation or aliens? Given we don't expect him for a few hours, you probably have to make the call for him...Eabhal said:I wonder if this subsea cable thing was why Braveheart was in Washington yesterday?
I'm here to ramp this until Leon wakes up. 3am in Colorado.
ETA: Could also be Northlink accidentally cutting the north link. Afterall, there's an awful lot of Magnus the Viking under the water and he's probably got a sharp sword/axe.
1 -
Tipping it down here. Been dark and raining all day.2
-
The Ukrainians certainly had a news blackout. Though that was reported. So it wasn't a 'super injunction' as it were.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Very little discussion of this on Twitter.MarqueeMark said:Russian columns leaving Kherson. Given they are well within HIMARS range, wonder if there has been a local deal done between the two sides - take your men (but not your heavy weaponry) over the river without destroying Kherson, and in turn we will not destroy you...?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1582902740727959553
I wonder if it is D-Noticed (so to speak)0 -
3am where you are? I know you tend to over-translate your hatred of Trump onto British politics, but this is risible.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.0 -
Deficits don't matter - Dick Cheney and Republican Party, 2003
Manifestos don't matter - Liz Truss and Conservative Party, 20221 -
Have you given up on your ridiculous conspiracy theory that the Russians had a hand in Kwarteng's budget?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.0 -
Manifestos don't matter - the courts, in the Wheeler case. Lefties cheered then.SeaShantyIrish2 said:Deficits don't matter - Dick Cheney and Republican Party, 2003
Manifestos don't matter - Liz Truss and Conservative Party, 20220 -
Should be 140 by now.Scott_xP said:14 MPs now publicly calling on truss to go. Thats eight more just this morning https://twitter.com/tomlarkinsky/status/1583032794787110912
Who the hell do they think they are being loyal towards? Supine twats....1 -
As I'm sure you will recall I have called this tendency amongst Tories out previously. To the upset of people who had been PB Tories not of that tendency.Beibheirli_C said:Wow! What a bunch of xenophobes on the Conservative benches. Questions along the lines of "Can you assure us that the new HS will keep forriners out?"
For an awful lot of people, Brexit was about getting shut of the foreigners of various kinds who were here taking all the jobs and claiming benefits and filling schools and hospitals.2 -
Agree with you, the mess in London is indeed risible.Driver said:
3am where you are? I know you tend to over-translate your hatred of Trump onto British politics, but this is risible.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.0 -
Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.
I wouldn't want Liz Truss to be making important decisions if the Russians are cutting our subsea cables, or do vindicate Leon's wildest fears.
Wallace will see it as his duty to stay in his post and do his job.1 -
Now what? A senior former cabinet minister responds: “f*** knows”. My @IndyVoices column (the fourth draft as what I wrote kept getting overtaken by events!) on what next for the country, the government and @trussliz https://twitter.com/indyvoices/status/15830283987538616320
-
But it has nothing to do with Trump and no impact on Ukraine.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Agree with you, the mess in London is indeed risible.Driver said:
3am where you are? I know you tend to over-translate your hatred of Trump onto British politics, but this is risible.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.0 -
I do recall you saying. Probably because I have said much the same only to be told that I am deluded (which is a big rich coming from the PB Tory extremes)RochdalePioneers said:
As I'm sure you will recall I have called this tendency amongst Tories out previously. To the upset of people who had been PB Tories not of that tendency.Beibheirli_C said:Wow! What a bunch of xenophobes on the Conservative benches. Questions along the lines of "Can you assure us that the new HS will keep forriners out?"
For an awful lot of people, Brexit was about getting shut of the foreigners of various kinds who were here taking all the jobs and claiming benefits and filling schools and hospitals.1 -
You'll perhaps forgive me if I don't take Bev's paraphrasing of the questions on trust?RochdalePioneers said:
As I'm sure you will recall I have called this tendency amongst Tories out previously. To the upset of people who had been PB Tories not of that tendency.Beibheirli_C said:Wow! What a bunch of xenophobes on the Conservative benches. Questions along the lines of "Can you assure us that the new HS will keep forriners out?"
For an awful lot of people, Brexit was about getting shut of the foreigners of various kinds who were here taking all the jobs and claiming benefits and filling schools and hospitals.0 -
When is Iran going to be held accountable for getting itself involved in a European war?0
-
Isn't this what's behind the "evacuation" of civilians from Kherson.MarqueeMark said:Russian columns leaving Kherson. Given they are well within HIMARS range, wonder if there has been a local deal done between the two sides - take your men (but not your heavy weaponry) over the river without destroying Kherson, and in turn we will not destroy you...?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1582902740727959553
Telling the Ukrainians that they're using Ukraine's own citizens as a human shield, so that Ukrainian forces won't shoot at them.1 -
Another Russian top brass has been killed in Ukraine - General Roman Kutuzov. Fulsome condolences on Russian social media.2
-
Betting Post: I'm surprised to see Sunak so short (don't) at 2.72 for next PM.
I've layed that a bit.0 -
Liz Truss in her last (perhaps for all time?) PMQs pledged to maintain MILITARY aid to UKR at current levels (how reassuring!) but rather pointedly said NOTHING about non-military aid, which is clearly just as significant.LostPassword said:
Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.
I wouldn't want Liz Truss to be making important decisions if the Russians are cutting our subsea cables, or do vindicate Leon's wildest fears.
Wallace will see it as his duty to stay in his post and do his job.0 -
@NadineDorries
One person was elected by the British public with a manifesto and a mandate until January ‘25.
If Liz Truss is no longer PM there can be no coronation of previously failed candidates.
MPs must demand return of @BorisJohnson - if not it has to be leadership election or a GE.
It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy.
A coronation is the transfer of power out of the hands of the people and into the offices of a few already extremely powerful men in grey suits. It would be an abomination
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/15830336799908618250 -
HA! HA! HA!Driver said:
But it has nothing to do with Trump and no impact on Ukraine.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Agree with you, the mess in London is indeed risible.Driver said:
3am where you are? I know you tend to over-translate your hatred of Trump onto British politics, but this is risible.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.0 -
Starmer is giving a good speech at the TUC. Actually some passion showing through the grey!1
-
Manifestos don't matter in the sense that governments should not be bound by them, events change the landscape over 5 years. Of course they do matter in the sense that people who voted for you will feel let down or worse if you can't convince them of the necessity for doing the opposite of a manifesto commitment. I guess there won't be much if any fracking before the next GE so unlikely to be a massive issue on its own amongst everything else, but just adds to the out of touch and delusional angle that will bring the Tories down.Driver said:
Manifestos don't matter - the courts, in the Wheeler case. Lefties cheered then.SeaShantyIrish2 said:Deficits don't matter - Dick Cheney and Republican Party, 2003
Manifestos don't matter - Liz Truss and Conservative Party, 20220 -
Strange goings on in Germany.
Treason!!
🇨🇳 China: We want to buy part of the port of Hamburg.
🇩🇪 Economic Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Interior Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Defense Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Foreign Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Finance Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Transport Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Intelligence Agency: No!
🇩🇪 Counterintelligence Agency: No!
🇪🇺 EU Commission: No!
🇩🇪 Chancellor @OlafScholz : Yes! China can buy it. I am forcing through the sale of this critical infrastructure and am overruling all ministers and all German security agencies to do what the Chinese dictator wants.
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/15830398614473318401 -
What she said is:SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Liz Truss in her last (perhaps for all time?) PMQs pledged to maintain MILITARY aid to UKR at current levels (how reassuring!) but rather pointedly said NOTHING about non-military aid, which is clearly just as significant.LostPassword said:
Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.
I wouldn't want Liz Truss to be making important decisions if the Russians are cutting our subsea cables, or do vindicate Leon's wildest fears.
Wallace will see it as his duty to stay in his post and do his job.
We must make sure that Ukraine wins. It can win, it will win, and it must win.
Your attempts to cast some doubt on her - and the UK's - support for Ukraine are laughable.0 -
British forces bombed Iraq last week.FrankBooth said:When is Iran going to be held accountable for getting itself involved in a European war?
0 -
You're the only one proposing something that might cheer Putin, which is the resignation of Ben Wallace.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
HA! HA! HA!Driver said:
But it has nothing to do with Trump and no impact on Ukraine.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Agree with you, the mess in London is indeed risible.Driver said:
3am where you are? I know you tend to over-translate your hatred of Trump onto British politics, but this is risible.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.2 -
MPs calling for her to go:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13s
Seems to finally be a degree of coordination here.0 -
One person was elected by the British public with a manifesto and a mandate until January ‘25.
If Liz Truss is no longer PM there can be no coronation of previously failed candidates.
MPs must demand return of @BorisJohnson - if not it has to be leadership election or a GE.
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1583033679990861825?s=20&t=udtAEqEsbG7NP2NMSPkGVQ
https://twitter.com/DutchNewchurch/status/15830352599225671685 -
Via their donations to the Conservative Party they've definitely had a hand in hollowing it out and turning it into a Bad Clown College.williamglenn said:
Have you given up on your ridiculous conspiracy theory that the Russians had a hand in Kwarteng's budget?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.
You don't need to turn people into active, knowing traitors to turn them into "useful idiots".1 -
Shades of WWII in Europe - at the end Eisenhower had to forbid such local surrenders, because the Germans were heading East to fight the Russians…MarqueeMark said:Russian columns leaving Kherson. Given they are well within HIMARS range, wonder if there has been a local deal done between the two sides - take your men (but not your heavy weaponry) over the river without destroying Kherson, and in turn we will not destroy you...?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/15829027407279595530 -
'Kutuzov' sounds like a report on Ukrainian operations in Kherson.MarqueeMark said:Another Russian top brass has been killed in Ukraine - General Roman Kutuzov. Fulsome condolences on Russian social media.
4 -
Both sides of the House giving Jesse Norman a hard time over the Manchester China consulate brawl.0
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Oh, now I am PROPOSING that Wallace resign?williamglenn said:
You're the only one proposing something that might cheer Putin, which is the resignation of Ben Wallace.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
HA! HA! HA!Driver said:
But it has nothing to do with Trump and no impact on Ukraine.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Agree with you, the mess in London is indeed risible.Driver said:
3am where you are? I know you tend to over-translate your hatred of Trump onto British politics, but this is risible.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.
Yet again, you prove yourself to be a twister of truly epic proportions.0 -
MarqueeMark said:
Russian columns leaving Kherson. Given they are well within HIMARS range, wonder if there has been a local deal done between the two sides - take your men (but not your heavy weaponry) over the river without destroying Kherson, and in turn we will not destroy you...?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1582902740727959553
Reports suggest that they are retreating across the dam to the east, so they aren't being targeted on the crossing itself. They are having to abandon all their heavy equipment.MarqueeMark said:Russian columns leaving Kherson. Given they are well within HIMARS range, wonder if there has been a local deal done between the two sides - take your men (but not your heavy weaponry) over the river without destroying Kherson, and in turn we will not destroy you...?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/15829027407279595530 -
There is a peculiar strain of extreme mercantilism in a part of German politics. Trade is all, and somehow thinking about strategic implications is bad….AlistairM said:Strange goings on in Germany.
Treason!!
🇨🇳 China: We want to buy part of the port of Hamburg.
🇩🇪 Economic Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Interior Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Defense Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Foreign Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Finance Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Transport Ministry: No!
🇩🇪 Intelligence Agency: No!
🇩🇪 Counterintelligence Agency: No!
🇪🇺 EU Commission: No!
🇩🇪 Chancellor @OlafScholz : Yes! China can buy it. I am forcing through the sale of this critical infrastructure and am overruling all ministers and all German security agencies to do what the Chinese dictator wants.
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1583039861447331840
0 -
The very first transatlantic cable, while it was being laid, was sabotaged by nails being driven through it.MattW said:Out of historical interest, when was the first incident of an undersea cable being cut in war?
The earliest I know of was somebody cutting all the German owned cables in the Channel in 1914.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42367551
Were there any earlier occurrences?
Gooch and the Great Eastern's captain turned up all hands, said what had happened, and said that the cable had been repaired so they could go forward.
They also said that if they caught anyone doing that again, that person could find out how far they could swim, viz whether they could swim back to Ireland.
Strangely, they had no further trouble on that score.0 -
Truss may THINK she's supporting the UKR, but then she likely thinks she's supporting the UK.Driver said:
What she said is:SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Liz Truss in her last (perhaps for all time?) PMQs pledged to maintain MILITARY aid to UKR at current levels (how reassuring!) but rather pointedly said NOTHING about non-military aid, which is clearly just as significant.LostPassword said:
Provided HMG can keep on paying the bills the crisis in the rest of the government doesn't seem to be causing any particular difficulties for the MoD or the provision of support to Ukraine by the UK.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Any odds on HIM resigning?LostPassword said:
Wallace is giving a statement to the Commons today. Probably quite soon.MattW said:
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1583012259172741121
Would appear in best interests of UKR as well as UK, to have a functioning government in Westminster ASAP.
Just when things look bleakest for Putin, the Tories are throwing him a lifeline, just like the Trump-Putinists.
I wouldn't want Liz Truss to be making important decisions if the Russians are cutting our subsea cables, or do vindicate Leon's wildest fears.
Wallace will see it as his duty to stay in his post and do his job.
We must make sure that Ukraine wins. It can win, it will win, and it must win.
Your attempts to cast some doubt on her - and the UK's - support for Ukraine are laughable.0 -
I wonder how many Tories would join Ms Dorries in crashing the party if they cannot have Boris back?williamglenn said:@NadineDorries
One person was elected by the British public with a manifesto and a mandate until January ‘25.
If Liz Truss is no longer PM there can be no coronation of previously failed candidates.
MPs must demand return of @BorisJohnson - if not it has to be leadership election or a GE.
It is inconceivable that we could continue to face the world parading the notion that we are a democracy.
A coronation is the transfer of power out of the hands of the people and into the offices of a few already extremely powerful men in grey suits. It would be an abomination
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1583033679990861825
Or is this just a "frighten the horses" variation using a GE rather than the Farage bogeyman.0
