As they say the “optics” don’t look good – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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I said:LostPassword said:
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
The reason I go on about Truss more is that I think she's also pretty shit but would (will) be a PM with plenty of (extremely nutty) ideas and will govern in interesting chaos for a couple of years before losing the GE. I fear the UK will be in a substantially more damaged position than now. She has nothing useful to offer, but will offer it anyway.
So, I could still be proved right, but that couple of years (like my betting against a 2022 exit
) is looking a bit of a long shot 
FWIW, I thought she'd hand out the sweeties in a more electorally appealing way and get a bit of a poll boost before reality bit. Got that very wrong! 2 -
One is a cock up - twice is something else which is why it's being mentionedping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.1 -
This is a general problem.eek said:
I've been saying that for years. since the dawn of 24/7 news and especially the dawn of social media where everyone now things they have the right to hassle you all the time, no one sane wishes to be an MP.kjh said:
I do find it depressing though. I don't see a Labour front bench full of talent and their conference worried me with the desire to interfere everywhere. I support the LDs, but there are two problems there: a) They also don't have an inspiring group of MPs either and b) they aren't going to form a Govt.BartholomewRoberts said:
I still am. No regrets. The Health and Social Care Levy is axed, mission accomplished.Nigel_Foremain said:
Hey, the cock just crowed. Don't deny it. You were a fan. Just as you were of Johnson. Well done. You have backed the two worst and most damaging PMs in the history of this country. They have both probably ensured that we are stuck with Labour for the next 20 years and it is thanks to political illiterates such as you.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Bring on Labour, I don't care. I'm not a partisan shill. If the Tories are just going to be increasing National Insurance then I might as well vote Labour anyway - at least Labour are more liberal on social issues and don't have authoritarians wanting to restrict civil liberties or immigration.
The Today programme this morning had Max Hastings and Polly Toynbee on in surprise agreement on the lack of talent in the HofC (and making the point that they didn't think it was a case of old fogies with fond memories of the old days). Sadly I think they are correct.
There are a lot better and easier ways to earn more money and lot easier ways to do local good.
I worked in a customer facing role at a micro-company, some time back.
My phone would ring at all hours and I had to answer as it could be an emergency.
My stress levels were insane.0 -
Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
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24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."0 -
Peerage from the departing Truss ?Peter_the_Punter said:
I won't have Sir Christorher Chope left out. The guy is ga-ga.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Good question. Hard to pick from such a rogues gallery but I'd probably go for Suella Braverman, Owen Patterson and Jacob Rees Mogg as the absolute worst Tory MPs.noneoftheabove said:
Who are your top (or bottom) three?OnlyLivingBoy said:
The sad reality is that Mark Francois is actually far from the worst option on the table.noneoftheabove said:
In which case, Mark Francois should be curious to see why his turn to be PM has not (yet?) arrived.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Since at least 2016 the worst option has always prevailed in British politics.Omnium said:
Given the mistakes she's made recently (email, the spat with India, and generally idiotic posturing) and the childish tone of her departure letter I think she's not far off the worst possible choice.HYUFD said:
Braverman has no chance of being PM, she has a chance of being Leader of the Opposition to a Starmer governmentGardenwalker said:
YouGov’s survey of members showed practically zero support for Suella, and that’s among the criminally insane, ie her natural constituency.Casino_Royale said:
The trouble is, Westminster is full of people (within one's own faction, of course) who'll blow smoke up your own arsehole.MarqueeMark said:
Braverman's ambition and self-belief is W-A-Y more unwarranted than even that of Liz Truss.darkage said:
She could get there if it somehow goes to the membership. 28 is a good price.Andy_JS said:
I wonder how the 1922 committee intend to stop her from running for the leadership...Jonathan said:Braverman is on manoeuvres, right?
Then she would find herself in an infinitely worse position than Truss as PM.
The key problem is that - after getting Brexit done - the tories don't have a clear idea what they are in power to do. Is it to provide strong and stable leadership? Or to destroy the woke?
The Tories have no-one who can take her to one side and say "Suella...no. Just...no! Look at Liz Truss - and learn." The lack of respected grandees who are listened to is a major (pun intended) problem for management of the party.
You learn to ignore the rest.
One fears that Suella’s ring piece is smoke-damaged beyond repair.
.... Lord Gaga.1 -
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/15829974027973795841 -
They were ramping her last month.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.0 -
But only if collected, in person, from the Russian consulate in Kyiv?IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/15829974027973795840 -
Why very likely? I am not disagreeing with you, I am just interested in your view. Is there any polling evidence? I can imagine a large number of people who might vote a particular way on a binary vote would give a transferable vote to the middle option if there was not a clear winner from the other two if it were a simple transferable vote system.eek said:
Given 3 options - that means a complex voting system and it's very likely that Devomax would be knocked out first.Nigel_Foremain said:
They have to announce some. And they will. The reality is that they know they can't announce any major change in spending, so anything they suggest Jeremy can agree with. He can tell the electorate there is no point in voting Labour. It will force their hand as they will be continually asked what their policies are.Driver said:
6 is a problem, since Labour refuse to announce policies.Nigel_Foremain said:This is how the Tories prevent total meltdown at the next election:
1) Appoint Mordaunt as titular leader
2) Hunt as Chancellor calling most of the shots
3) Sunak as FS or HS but part of the main decision-making triumvirate
4) Appoint Steve Baker as business sec to have one of the few intelligent Brexiteers on side
5)sack all the clowns such as JRM
6) Copy every good policy Labour suggests: windfall taxes etc. etc.
6a) Offer Labour an opportunity to work with Government to find centre ground policies in national interest
7)offer a serious path to a genuine once in a lifetime referendum on Scottish indy, but including devomax
8)Hope for some luck
7 is a problem, because the SNP will never accept defeat in a referendum.
Regarding 7. It is a risk. My guess is that the very sensible people of Scotland will go for devomax, in the same way as the UK as a whole would have voted for EEA instead of hard Brexit. It would be seen as compromise.0 -
Correct.eek said:
Given 3 options - that means a complex voting system and it's very likely that Devomax would be knocked out first.Nigel_Foremain said:
They have to announce some. And they will. The reality is that they know they can't announce any major change in spending, so anything they suggest Jeremy can agree with. He can tell the electorate there is no point in voting Labour. It will force their hand as they will be continually asked what their policies are.Driver said:
6 is a problem, since Labour refuse to announce policies.Nigel_Foremain said:This is how the Tories prevent total meltdown at the next election:
1) Appoint Mordaunt as titular leader
2) Hunt as Chancellor calling most of the shots
3) Sunak as FS or HS but part of the main decision-making triumvirate
4) Appoint Steve Baker as business sec to have one of the few intelligent Brexiteers on side
5)sack all the clowns such as JRM
6) Copy every good policy Labour suggests: windfall taxes etc. etc.
6a) Offer Labour an opportunity to work with Government to find centre ground policies in national interest
7)offer a serious path to a genuine once in a lifetime referendum on Scottish indy, but including devomax
8)Hope for some luck
7 is a problem, because the SNP will never accept defeat in a referendum.
Regarding 7. It is a risk. My guess is that the very sensible people of Scotland will go for devomax, in the same way as the UK as a whole would have voted for EEA instead of hard Brexit. It would be seen as compromise.
Devolution is now only supported by 38% of Scots, and falling. The Vow Window closed in 2014.0 -
You were dead on about the "interesting chaos" though !Selebian said:I said:
The reason I go on about Truss more is that I think she's also pretty shit but would (will) be a PM with plenty of (extremely nutty) ideas and will govern in interesting chaos for a couple of years before losing the GE. I fear the UK will be in a substantially more damaged position than now. She has nothing useful to offer, but will offer it anyway.
So, I could still be proved right, but that couple of years (like my betting against a 2022 exit ) is looking a bit of a long shot FWIW, I thought she'd hand out the sweeties in a more electorally appealing way and get a bit of a poll boost before reality bit. Got that very wrong!
1 -
The dying days of Brown's government look positively calm and well managed, in retrospect.OldKingCole said:Good morning all; although it isn't, as it's raining quite hard here.
I've been interested in politics, and indeed active, since the 1950s and this is the third clusterfuck I've seen. The first was Suez, the second the dying days of Gordon Brown's government, but this is by far the worst. I really do fear for my country!0 -
I'm not prepared to concede defeat yet. Her cabinet is getting better every day.IanB2 said:
Very few, tbf - I think Barty, Leon "she'll surprise on the upside"..damus, and one other?StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
4 -
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.0 -
I wonder what Sunak is up to? He obviously wants to replace Truss and is shortening a bit in the betting. But not to a price that suggests a deal has been done. He can't be seen to move against Truss. Being one of Boris chief assassins hobbled his last leadership bid. I guess Stride or others will be negotiating on his behalf.1
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'Govern' was pushing it though!pm215 said:
You were dead on about the "interesting chaos" though !Selebian said:I said:
The reason I go on about Truss more is that I think she's also pretty shit but would (will) be a PM with plenty of (extremely nutty) ideas and will govern in interesting chaos for a couple of years before losing the GE. I fear the UK will be in a substantially more damaged position than now. She has nothing useful to offer, but will offer it anyway.
So, I could still be proved right, but that couple of years (like my betting against a 2022 exit ) is looking a bit of a long shot FWIW, I thought she'd hand out the sweeties in a more electorally appealing way and get a bit of a poll boost before reality bit. Got that very wrong!1 -
Funny but I was only thinking this morning what comparable situations I'd experienced in my lifetime and I'm not sure anything fits the bill quite. Peak Corbyn was pretty bad and there were times during Blair's leadership when the Opposition was laughable but in both cases you are talking about the Party not in office. Suez comes close but it was an international rather than home-grown crisis.OldKingCole said:Good morning all; although it isn't, as it's raining quite hard here.
I've been interested in politics, and indeed active, since the 1950s and this is the third clusterfuck I've seen. The first was Suez, the second the dying days of Gordon Brown's government, but this is by far the worst. I really do fear for my country!
I don't show your fears though. We have a democracy, a free press, a mature civil society. The madness will pass and we will return to some semblance of normality, imperfect as ever but perfectly liveable.
This isn't Russia.2 -
Labour gets granted an UQ on Braverman - up soon in the House?0
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Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.0 -
Ooh, what fun! New pleasures, new pleasures.IanB2 said:Labour gets granted an UQ on Braverman - up soon in the House?
0 -
Could be the opening pages of The Swarmping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.0 -
Thank you; I sincerely hope you are right. However, while I agree about the democracy I'm not so sure about the restPeter_the_Punter said:
Funny but I was only thinking this morning what comparable situations I'd experienced in my lifetime and I'm not sure anything fits the bill quite. Peak Corbyn was pretty bad and there were times during Blair's leadership when the Opposition was laughable but in both cases you are talking about the Party not in office. Suez comes close but it was an international rather than home-grown crisis.OldKingCole said:Good morning all; although it isn't, as it's raining quite hard here.
I've been interested in politics, and indeed active, since the 1950s and this is the third clusterfuck I've seen. The first was Suez, the second the dying days of Gordon Brown's government, but this is by far the worst. I really do fear for my country!
I don't show your fears though. We have a democracy, a free press, a mature civil society. The madness will pass and we will return to some semblance of normality, imperfect as ever but perfectly liveable.
This isn't Russia.1 -
A Prime Minister may fall today. Soak up the history, guys. Days like today only come around every couple of monthsPeter_the_Punter said:Funny but I was only thinking this morning what comparable situations I'd experienced in my lifetime and I'm not sure anything fits the bill quite. Peak Corbyn was pretty bad and there were times during Blair's leadership when the Opposition was laughable but in both cases you are talking about the Party not in office. Suez comes close but it was an international rather than home-grown crisis.
I don't show your fears though. We have a democracy, a free press, a mature civil society. The madness will pass and we will return to some semblance of normality, imperfect as ever but perfectly liveable.
This isn't Russia.
https://twitter.com/mrJamesGraham/status/15830187763326812170 -
Doesn't he just have to stand there looking sweet and wait for someone to ask him to dance?stjohn said:I wonder what Sunak is up to? He obviously wants to replace Truss and is shortening a bit in the betting. But not to a price that suggests a deal has been done. He can't be seen to move against Truss. Being one of Boris chief assassins hobbled his last leadership bid. I guess Stride or others will be negotiating on his behalf.
2 -
Or the Wickers..swing_voter said:0 -
Fascinating!MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I had a fun few days in Crimea pre-2014.
Went round the ex-soviet submarine base in Balaklava;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_museum_complex_Balaklava
I doubt it’ll be reopening to western tourists any time soon…0 -
Worse than Suez. Also a Tory clusterfuck. Anthony Eden.OldKingCole said:Good morning all; although it isn't, as it's raining quite hard here.
I've been interested in politics, and indeed active, since the 1950s and this is the third clusterfuck I've seen. The first was Suez, the second the dying days of Gordon Brown's government, but this is by far the worst. I really do fear for my country!0 -
Things are speeding up.
ELEVEN MPs now publicly calling for Liz Truss to go.
+5 since last night's chaos, inc the first who backed Truss for leader.
Double: "The game is up"
Streeter: "It seems we must change leader"
Murray: "Her position has become untenable"
Big day ahead. https://twitter.com/TomLarkinSky/status/1583020346671738880/photo/11 -
Has Thérèse Coffey gone yet?edmundintokyo said:
I'm not prepared to concede defeat yet. Her cabinet is getting better every day.IanB2 said:
Very few, tbf - I think Barty, Leon "she'll surprise on the upside"..damus, and one other?StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
3 -
Sounds like we're going to get some parliamentary private secretary (ministerial bag-carrier) resignations today.
The end is drawing near.
https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/15830194900983070721 -
Dissenters will be executed by a pack of hungry dogs. That would make a good Radiohead song title if it wasn’t so cheery.StuartDickson said:
Utter shite. No debate. On all matters Radiohead I take a strict North Korea line. Dissenters will be executed by a pack of hungry dogs.MarqueeMark said:
It worse than that. They can have whatever opinion they like of Radiohead.Theuniondivvie said:
‘In fairness to the Chief Whip trying to whip the current Conservative party must make herding cats look like a walk in the park. So many factions, so little in common, so many loud mouth opinionated twats who want the world to know what they think and utter incompetence in the form of direction from the centre with no core beliefs or principles to guide anyone.’DavidL said:In fairness to the Chief Whip trying to whip the current Conservative party must make herding cats look like a walk in the park. So many factions, so little in common, so many loud mouth opinionated twats who want the world to know what they think and utter incompetence in the form of direction from the centre with no core beliefs or principles to guide anyone.
The Conservatives will undoubtedly benefit from a period in opposition to rediscover what they are actually for. The risk is that no one will actually care anymore.
Akin to the role of PB moderator?
No ban hammer.1 -
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.0 -
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Well, depends on how you define 'lost'. They avoided being part of this clusterfuck.swing_voter said:
and those that did jump last time all lost (I think).ClippP said:
That raises a question... Which Conservative MPs might be welcomed by other parties?Benpointer said:There must come a point where some Tory MPs think their best chance of surviving the next GE is to defect to the LDs or Labour.
A difficult question...1 -
I wonder if this subsea cable thing was why Braveheart was in Washington yesterday?
I'm here to ramp this until Leon wakes up. 3am in Colorado.3 -
If you are going to use quotes, then maybe use actual quotes? Also, "surge" and "most" does not equate with "the English". Maybe get some English language skills? Might stop you seeing bigotry where there is none.Nigel_Foremain said:
I am sorry to break this to you but "The English" are quite a diverse lot. Try and get some diversity training it might help you pigeonhole people a little less.Starry said:
I switched from No at the last referendum to a Yes, if it was happening now. Imagine England being ruled by Scottish Nationalists, with no regard to any variation in core beliefs for England, including returning to the EU, even if it meant using the Euro and uniting Ireland, even when most English don't want to. Think there'd be a surge in English wanting a breakaway, regardless of economics? I'd rather have neither but better a Scottish Nationalist ruling Scotland, than English.Nigel_Foremain said:
As opposed to the SNP who really do believe in the fairies at the end of the gardenStuartDickson said:
The Tories really, really, really don’t care about Little People.ping said:
There is a serious point here.StuartDickson said:Has Grant Shapps resigned yet?
I’ve made a few posts on here, in recent years, about the epidemic of cyber fraud and online scamming - and the utter unwillingness of the government to do its job protecting the people from it. Going after the people who do this shite.
We have scammers actively impersonating the police, HMRC and other government agencies and no meaningful attempt is made to stop it and go after the scum.
Appointing Michael Green to home sec is a special level of cynical.1 -
Anything for a buck.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.0 -
Hmm. Do you think he'd go for Russian escalation or aliens? Given we don't expect him for a few hours, you probably have to make the call for him...Eabhal said:I wonder if this subsea cable thing was why Braveheart was in Washington yesterday?
I'm here to ramp this until Leon wakes up. 3am in Colorado.
ETA: Could also be Northlink accidentally cutting the north link. Afterall, there's an awful lot of Magnus the Viking under the water and he's probably got a sharp sword/axe.
2 -
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.0 -
Wasn't there something about brains in Petri dishes too?Selebian said:
Hmm. Do you think he'd go for Russian escalation or aliens? Given we don't expect him for a few hours, you probably have to make the call for him...Eabhal said:I wonder if this subsea cable thing was why Braveheart was in Washington yesterday?
I'm here to ramp this until Leon wakes up. 3am in Colorado.0 -
Bean wondering that too. On what grounds?StuartDickson said:
Has Thérèse Coffey gone yet?edmundintokyo said:
I'm not prepared to concede defeat yet. Her cabinet is getting better every day.IanB2 said:
Very few, tbf - I think Barty, Leon "she'll surprise on the upside"..damus, and one other?StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
3 -
hahaScott_xP said:
A Prime Minister may fall today. Soak up the history, guys. Days like today only come around every couple of monthsPeter_the_Punter said:Funny but I was only thinking this morning what comparable situations I'd experienced in my lifetime and I'm not sure anything fits the bill quite. Peak Corbyn was pretty bad and there were times during Blair's leadership when the Opposition was laughable but in both cases you are talking about the Party not in office. Suez comes close but it was an international rather than home-grown crisis.
I don't show your fears though. We have a democracy, a free press, a mature civil society. The madness will pass and we will return to some semblance of normality, imperfect as ever but perfectly liveable.
This isn't Russia.
https://twitter.com/mrJamesGraham/status/15830187763326812170 -
Does one “wake up” from a four-decade marijuana/alcohol/god-knows-what session? Based on his posting record, woken periods of lucidity are infrequent.Eabhal said:I wonder if this subsea cable thing was why Braveheart was in Washington yesterday?
I'm here to ramp this until Leon wakes up. 3am in Colorado.1 -
Dominic Cummings
@Dominic2306
·
3m
@Betfair
please set up 'what year ECHR/HRA referendum' & 'which side will win' markets asap, thanks!0 -
-
Repulsiveness.stjohn said:
Bean wondering that too. On what grounds?StuartDickson said:
Has Thérèse Coffey gone yet?edmundintokyo said:
I'm not prepared to concede defeat yet. Her cabinet is getting better every day.IanB2 said:
Very few, tbf - I think Barty, Leon "she'll surprise on the upside"..damus, and one other?StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Repulsive policies. Bien sûr.0 -
Oh I think the rest was a combination of arrogance and inexperience with more than a touch of recklessness. That's all though.noneoftheabove said:
I can understand them thinking they would work, but why well received? There are things such as opinion polls, or listening to your colleagues. And if they were to somehow work it would be over timescales that would not have seen them through the winter regardless.Peter_the_Punter said:
In fairness to Kwasi and Truss (I'm in a generous mood today), I think they really believed their policies would work and be well-received. They must have been as shocked as any of us by the actual response.LostPassword said:
I had a fairly strong and negative reaction to her plan to fund tax cuts with borrowing, but I didn't expect the markets to do the same. I natively expected them to respond, "Yay, tax cuts!" and then to worry about the spending cuts later.Slackbladder said:
Always team Rishi here.LostPassword said:
I fairly consistently tipped Truss as one to watch for replacing Johnson. I said, several times, long before the summer, that I thought she had the chutzpah to do the audacious things that would reinvent the government. I was puzzled by how vociferous was the response from other posters who insisted she would be a disaster.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
I did not foresee how ineptly she would attempt to implement her audacious policies, nor how badly they would be received.
I'm not sure I would say I was a ramper, as such, but I didn't identify how useless she was ahead of time, as others did.
I recall saying her 'plan' was at least a clear plan, but it was a experiment, which 'might' work but was a risk.
And its clear we have the answer to the results of that experiment.
Personally (for what very little it is worth) I thought she had the potential for disaster but might just possibly bear out Leondamus's prediction of surprising on the upside.
Even I'm surprised how far on the downside she turned out to be. And (in fairness again) I have to say I agree with NickP's view that the basic problem is that she is out of her depth, rather than malicious.
Nobody would deliberately orchestrate the present clusterfuck.0 -
She woke up and smelled ?stjohn said:
Bean wondering that too. On what grounds?StuartDickson said:
Has Thérèse Coffey gone yet?edmundintokyo said:
I'm not prepared to concede defeat yet. Her cabinet is getting better every day.IanB2 said:
Very few, tbf - I think Barty, Leon "she'll surprise on the upside"..damus, and one other?StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
1 -
Get Perez on the case.Flatlander said:
The undersea network has been cut. Failing cables are not unknown but the timing is ... good for a conspiracy theory.LostPassword said:
Say what?Eabhal said:Looks like the Russians have knocked out Shetland
Someone will have to drag the cable up from the sea floor to have a look.
Edit: The Faroese one went last week? Hmm.
Once is happenstance...2 -
What if everyone who despised Farage voted for him. What if everyone who despised him had voted for UKIP in the UK. How come you get to register your protest vote but no one else is. You voted for someone who if not a racist enabled racism.BartholomewRoberts said:
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.
But you have principles and "absolute deal-breakers".0 -
We used to live in a world where working-class folks could typically only advance through trade unions and the Labour movement regardless of how talented they were, and where there was a lot of inherited business wealth that meant a few people didn't have to work. Nowadays skilled people typically can and have to get well-paid jobs.ping said:
This is a general problem.eek said:
I've been saying that for years. since the dawn of 24/7 news and especially the dawn of social media where everyone now things they have the right to hassle you all the time, no one sane wishes to be an MP.kjh said:
I do find it depressing though. I don't see a Labour front bench full of talent and their conference worried me with the desire to interfere everywhere. I support the LDs, but there are two problems there: a) They also don't have an inspiring group of MPs either and b) they aren't going to form a Govt.BartholomewRoberts said:
I still am. No regrets. The Health and Social Care Levy is axed, mission accomplished.Nigel_Foremain said:
Hey, the cock just crowed. Don't deny it. You were a fan. Just as you were of Johnson. Well done. You have backed the two worst and most damaging PMs in the history of this country. They have both probably ensured that we are stuck with Labour for the next 20 years and it is thanks to political illiterates such as you.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
Bring on Labour, I don't care. I'm not a partisan shill. If the Tories are just going to be increasing National Insurance then I might as well vote Labour anyway - at least Labour are more liberal on social issues and don't have authoritarians wanting to restrict civil liberties or immigration.
The Today programme this morning had Max Hastings and Polly Toynbee on in surprise agreement on the lack of talent in the HofC (and making the point that they didn't think it was a case of old fogies with fond memories of the old days). Sadly I think they are correct.
There are a lot better and easier ways to earn more money and lot easier ways to do local good.
I worked in a customer facing role at a micro-company, some time back.
My phone would ring at all hours and I had to answer as it could be an emergency.
My stress levels were insane.0 -
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps.
Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.1 -
If everyone who despised Farage voted for his party in the 2019 sham election he would still not have been elected into Westminster since it wasn't a real Westminster election! 🤦♂️TOPPING said:
What if everyone who despised Farage voted for him. What if everyone who despised him had voted for UKIP in the UK. How come you get to register your protest vote but no one else is. You voted for someone who if not a racist enabled racism.BartholomewRoberts said:
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.
But you have principles and "absolute deal-breakers".
Every person in the entire country is entitled to register a protest vote whenever they want to, where have I ever said they're not? Millions did at those sham "elections" that we used to have.0 -
Norway accuses Moscow after another Russian arrested with a drone
A 47-year-old dual-national Russian-British man, reportedly the son of a Putin ally, has been arrested for flying a drone on the Arctic Archipelago of Svalbard and other locations, police in Norway have confirmed.
Over the past week, seven Russian citizens have been arrested for either using or possessing a drone or being found with photography equipment in areas where a general photo ban prohibits the public from taking pictures.
… Norway has moved to beef up security as it has replaced Russia as western Europe’s leading natural gas supplier.
In recent weeks, there have been several drone sightings in the vicinity of gas and power plants (such as the Kårstø plant in Tysvær and offshore facilities in the North Sea) and airports (such as the Sola Airport close to Stavanger and Bergen Flesland Airport) in Norway.
https://www.thelocal.no/20221019/norwegian-police-arrest-russian-for-drone-use-on-svalbard/1 -
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion *quite* so quickly, though I'd expect it to be the case.ping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
There have been incidents with Norwegian cables in the last year.
And no one has any effective ways of defending such cables.
0 -
Sinking the entire Russian Navy would be a good start.MattW said:
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion *quite* so quickly, though I'd expect it to be the case.ping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
There have been incidents with Norwegian cables in the last year.
And no one has any effective ways of defending such cables.1 -
Eight month anniversary.
Moscow Has No Plans for Aggression, Has Never Attacked Anyone In Its History, Kremlin Spokesman Says
https://sputniknews.com/20220220/moscow-has-no-plans-for-aggression-has-never-attacked-anyone-in-its-history-kremlin-spox-says-1093201581.html0 -
Why is he saying that today?rottenborough said:Dan Bloom
@danbloom1
·
24m
MP continues: "People will look at whether she can turn things around, and they will look at whether they can win with her as prime minister. If they cant, and she can’t, it gets to the Lady Macbeth territory - If it were done… then 'twere well it were done quickly."
That comment could have been made two weeks ago. Now, the answer to those questions is already extremely clear.0 -
Why? These thing are usually caused by fishing boats or people dragging anchor in storms. It might even BE storm damage. It was rather windy yesterday.LostPassword said:
Sinking the entire Russian Navy would be a good start.MattW said:
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion *quite* so quickly, though I'd expect it to be the case.ping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
There have been incidents with Norwegian cables in the last year.
And no one has any effective ways of defending such cables.0 -
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.1 -
Poor man, he's only just retired.paulyork64 said:
Get Perez on the case.Flatlander said:
The undersea network has been cut. Failing cables are not unknown but the timing is ... good for a conspiracy theory.LostPassword said:
Say what?Eabhal said:Looks like the Russians have knocked out Shetland
Someone will have to drag the cable up from the sea floor to have a look.
Edit: The Faroese one went last week? Hmm.
Once is happenstance...0 -
Yet such a vote is not actually 'registered' as one. It looks, smells, quacks and walks like a 'real serious vote' for X. You can't vote for baby eating as a protest against a future Labour government and claim you didn't mean it when the Cannibal Party claims victory.BartholomewRoberts said:
If everyone who despised Farage voted for his party in the 2019 sham election he would still not have been elected into Westminster since it wasn't a real Westminster election! 🤦♂️TOPPING said:
What if everyone who despised Farage voted for him. What if everyone who despised him had voted for UKIP in the UK. How come you get to register your protest vote but no one else is. You voted for someone who if not a racist enabled racism.BartholomewRoberts said:
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.
But you have principles and "absolute deal-breakers".
Every person in the entire country is entitled to register a protest vote whenever they want to, where have I ever said they're not? Millions did at those sham "elections" that we used to have.0 -
I was just trying to envisage the most positive outcome from all the people who looked like potential winners. First Mordaunt, then Sunak, then Badenoch, and finally Truss.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.0 -
UQ after questions to the Attorney General:
To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a statement on the departure of the previous Home Secretary
https://whatson.parliament.uk/1 -
Boris is also keeping quiet; is he back yet? Hunt has a convenient excuse for keeping his head down at the Treasury.stjohn said:I wonder what Sunak is up to? He obviously wants to replace Truss and is shortening a bit in the betting. But not to a price that suggests a deal has been done. He can't be seen to move against Truss. Being one of Boris chief assassins hobbled his last leadership bid. I guess Stride or others will be negotiating on his behalf.
0 -
Bigger problem than that though. One of the oligarch's "yachts" was bordered by the Norwegians at the start of the Ukrainian invasion. It had capability to cut through seabed cables....LostPassword said:
Sinking the entire Russian Navy would be a good start.MattW said:
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion *quite* so quickly, though I'd expect it to be the case.ping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
There have been incidents with Norwegian cables in the last year.
And no one has any effective ways of defending such cables.1 -
Has Grant Shapps resigned yet?0
-
Lots of people registered their protest vote at that election that should never have been.TOPPING said:
What if everyone who despised Farage voted for him. What if everyone who despised him had voted for UKIP in the UK. How come you get to register your protest vote but no one else is. You voted for someone who if not a racist enabled racism.BartholomewRoberts said:
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.
But you have principles and "absolute deal-breakers".0 -
Latest: senior Tories think we may be into the final hours of the Truss government.
Several ministers are on resignation watch, no confidence letters are flowing into Sir Graham Brady.
One minister: “The government has become a total farce.”
https://www.ft.com/content/639adc81-7805-4e2b-9eff-338c7cc712220 -
Morning all.Theuniondivvie said:
The telly was pretty boring in them days.StuartDickson said:
Weren’t there ghouls visiting Flanders in 1919 to see corpses being extracted from collapsed trenches? Also a Thomas Cook product I believe.MarqueeMark said:
During the Crimean War, tourists led by Mark Twain visited the wrecked city of Sevastopol.IanB2 said:
It's a contemporary battlefield tour. Money back if not satisfied!ydoethur said:
Isn't that route within range of Ukrainian artillery as well?AlistairM said:Russian drivers, don't worry if the Kerch bridge is out of action. It is only a short diversion.
The 985km detour map posted by the Kerch bridge.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1582997402797379584
Thomas Cook ran tours of the Boer War battlefields before the conflict was ended.
I still have heard very much about the Ben Wallace / Lloyd Austin conversations from last week.
What *were* they talking about?
(Recall that it was US/UK/Ua war games that scoped the current Ukranian offensive.)
0 -
-
Then she faffs it all up against the wall by making it all about 'independence'.StuartDickson said:
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.0 -
Expect the news to filter out....stjohn said:
Bean wondering that too. On what grounds?StuartDickson said:
Has Thérèse Coffey gone yet?edmundintokyo said:
I'm not prepared to concede defeat yet. Her cabinet is getting better every day.IanB2 said:
Very few, tbf - I think Barty, Leon "she'll surprise on the upside"..damus, and one other?StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
0 -
No vote at the 2019 UK part of the European Parliament election was a real serious vote for anyone, as it shouldn't ever have happened.Carnyx said:
Yet such a vote is not actually 'registered' as one. It looks, smells, quacks and walks like a 'real serious vote' for X. You can't vote for baby eating as a protest against a future Labour government and claim you didn't mean it when the Cannibal Party claims victory.BartholomewRoberts said:
If everyone who despised Farage voted for his party in the 2019 sham election he would still not have been elected into Westminster since it wasn't a real Westminster election! 🤦♂️TOPPING said:
What if everyone who despised Farage voted for him. What if everyone who despised him had voted for UKIP in the UK. How come you get to register your protest vote but no one else is. You voted for someone who if not a racist enabled racism.BartholomewRoberts said:
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.
But you have principles and "absolute deal-breakers".
Every person in the entire country is entitled to register a protest vote whenever they want to, where have I ever said they're not? Millions did at those sham "elections" that we used to have.0 -
Scott_xP said:
Latest: senior Tories think we may be into the final hours of the Truss government.
Several ministers are on resignation watch, no confidence letters are flowing into Sir Graham Brady.
One minister: “The government has become a total farce.”
https://www.ft.com/content/639adc81-7805-4e2b-9eff-338c7cc71222
Has Jeremy Hunt resigned yet?
0 -
Following the joke protest election of 2019, how many MPs did Farage get into Parliament?Carnyx said:
Yet such a vote is not actually 'registered' as one. It looks, smells, quacks and walks like a 'real serious vote' for X. You can't vote for baby eating as a protest against a future Labour government and claim you didn't mean it when the Cannibal Party claims victory.BartholomewRoberts said:
If everyone who despised Farage voted for his party in the 2019 sham election he would still not have been elected into Westminster since it wasn't a real Westminster election! 🤦♂️TOPPING said:
What if everyone who despised Farage voted for him. What if everyone who despised him had voted for UKIP in the UK. How come you get to register your protest vote but no one else is. You voted for someone who if not a racist enabled racism.BartholomewRoberts said:
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.
But you have principles and "absolute deal-breakers".
Every person in the entire country is entitled to register a protest vote whenever they want to, where have I ever said they're not? Millions did at those sham "elections" that we used to have.
Zero. Nada. Zilch.
So yes I can register it as such.0 -
Saw an interesting video last night. Ukrainian tank crew and their support. All middle aged blokes just getting on with their jobs.AlistairM said:This 5 min segment from Russian TV is interesting. They admit to there being no good news to come from Kherson in the next 2 months, they have difficulty with supplies and are outnumbered 4 to 1. There is also the usual rubbish about how Ukraine wants to kill civilians and are going to use chemical weapons. However, on more than one occasion they also have dispensed with "Special Military Operation" in favour of "war".
Meanwhile in Russia: anger and disappointment fill the studio, as the viewers are being prepared for the loss of Kherson and other territories. Host Olga Skabeeva bitterly questions why Russia was so wrong in the beginning, believing that Zelensky would run & NATO wouldn't help.
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1582794925304729601
Propaganda - probably.
But it was interesting to see what they were presenting. Not supper fit clowns doing ninja rolls and smashing bricks with their bare hands, but a bunch of guys you’d find in any small factory (say), older, bit chunky, doing a job and more interested in joshing around with guy who brought them food than talking hate on the enemy.
The contrast with the stuff coming out of Russia is extreme.3 -
THREE Tory MPs tell me on @TimesRadio that Liz Truss needs to resign now
💥Henry Smith
💥Steve Double
💥Miriam Cates
Full quotes 👇👇👇 https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/15830262825304268811 -
Poor metaphor.Slackbladder said:
Then she faffs it all up against the wall by making it all about 'independence'.StuartDickson said:
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.
The Oaf spaffing his Eton seed up against a wall is visually conceivable, indeed believable, if repulsive.
La Sturgeon making fruitless ejaculations up a wall just doesn’t work.
Spaffing is a peculiarly male preoccupation.0 -
The same "yacht" was hanging around near the Clyde naval base last year.MarqueeMark said:
Bigger problem than that though. One of the oligarch's "yachts" was bordered by the Norwegians at the start of the Ukrainian invasion. It had capability to cut through seabed cables....LostPassword said:
Sinking the entire Russian Navy would be a good start.MattW said:
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion *quite* so quickly, though I'd expect it to be the case.ping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
There have been incidents with Norwegian cables in the last year.
And no one has any effective ways of defending such cables.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/luxury-68m-superyacht-owned-former-243804590 -
But a fair few came close to hanging on.... And that was in the Corbyn election.swing_voter said:
and those that did jump last time all lost (I think).ClippP said:
That raises a question... Which Conservative MPs might be welcomed by other parties?Benpointer said:There must come a point where some Tory MPs think their best chance of surviving the next GE is to defect to the LDs or Labour.
A difficult question...0 -
Urban Dictionary disagrees.StuartDickson said:
Poor metaphor.Slackbladder said:
Then she faffs it all up against the wall by making it all about 'independence'.StuartDickson said:
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.
The Oaf spaffing his Eton seed up against a wall is visually conceivable, indeed believable, if repulsive.
La Sturgeon making fruitless ejaculations up a wall just doesn’t work.
Spaffing is a peculiarly male preoccupation.0 -
Urgent Question now. Not Shapps answering.
0 -
Kevin Schofield
@KevinASchofield
·
38m
Sounds like we're going to get some parliamentary private secretary (ministerial bag-carrier) resignations today.
The end is drawing near.0 -
Don't worry if a Russian jet flies into your apartment. The Russian state will make sure you are suitable compensated.
The Russian authorities say they have started paying out compensation to residents of the block of flats in Yeysk destroyed by a Su-34 warplane on Monday
Thirteen people have each received a hefty 10,000 roubles (around $160)
https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/15830286301666058300 -
“Clyde naval base”. Ho ho. Nice BritNat obfuscation.williamglenn said:
The same "yacht" was hanging around near the Clyde naval base last year.MarqueeMark said:
Bigger problem than that though. One of the oligarch's "yachts" was bordered by the Norwegians at the start of the Ukrainian invasion. It had capability to cut through seabed cables....LostPassword said:
Sinking the entire Russian Navy would be a good start.MattW said:
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion *quite* so quickly, though I'd expect it to be the case.ping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
There have been incidents with Norwegian cables in the last year.
And no one has any effective ways of defending such cables.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/luxury-68m-superyacht-owned-former-24380459
The Scottish death epicentre.0 -
A A Gill once famously said that there is not an "watching ironically" button to press when you tune in to trashy reality TV. The viewing figures are the viewing figures.Driver said:
Lots of people registered their protest vote at that election that should never have been.TOPPING said:
What if everyone who despised Farage voted for him. What if everyone who despised him had voted for UKIP in the UK. How come you get to register your protest vote but no one else is. You voted for someone who if not a racist enabled racism.BartholomewRoberts said:
I absolutely despise Farage. I would never in a million years vote for Farage to go to Westminster.TOPPING said:
I think we can (but won't) debate long into the night how your voting for Nigel Farage sits with your "absolute deal-breakers. Being racist..."BartholomewRoberts said:
Some policies are a matter of hardcore principle for me and absolute deal-breakers. Being racist, restricting abortion, and increasing NI fit that bill for me.TOPPING said:
So how least bad do the rest of the polices have to be for you to support someone on the one policy you judge good.BartholomewRoberts said:
Excuse me, I never ramped her.Benpointer said:
Barty, WilliamGlenn and LuckyGuy say Hi!DougSeal said:
Leon.StuartDickson said:Has anyone got a spreadsheet of PBers who were ramping Truss during the summer? It would make for fascinating reading.
Erm…
That’s it.
I wanted her to win, even if she lost the next election for the Tories, as I wanted the Health and Social Care Levy axed. I was quite clear that I'd rather lose the next election with Truss doing that, than win it with Sunak implementing that levy.
That's not ramping, that's putting purity/principle (take your pick) ahead of party politics.
I tipped Sunak to be PM when he was almost unheard-of and was arguably Boris's biggest fan on this site until they both increased NI and I quit the party and stopped supporting them both instantly the second they increased it. That's how core a principle it is to me.
All my life I've advocated flat and consistent taxes. Higher or lower tax rates is about a choice on what your priorities are, but inconsistent taxes paid by some people based on how they earn but not others who earn the exact same amount? Absolute deal-breaker for me I'm afraid.
If Corbyn wasn't an anti-semite (big if) then he certainly enabled anti-semitism.
If Farage wasn't...
I cast a protest vote, at a protest election, to get Farage out of the European Parliament and Theresa May out of Downing Street. Had it been a real election and not a sham one, I'd have voted differently.
But you have principles and "absolute deal-breakers".2 -
It's 2 cables to the Shetlands within a week which go in different directions - a bit of a coincidence.Beibheirli_C said:
Why? These thing are usually caused by fishing boats or people dragging anchor in storms. It might even BE storm damage. It was rather windy yesterday.LostPassword said:
Sinking the entire Russian Navy would be a good start.MattW said:
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion *quite* so quickly, though I'd expect it to be the case.ping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
There have been incidents with Norwegian cables in the last year.
And no one has any effective ways of defending such cables.
Sinking the entire Russian fleet is a bit of an overreaction perhaps :-). Perhaps it would be keep the subs and certain ships in port.
And allow Ukraine suitable missiles to attack the Western Fleets of the Russian navy. In theory those Iranian suicide drones have the range to reach St Petersburg from Ukraine.1 -
They need to get on with it rather than steadily dribbling out backbenchers every few hours.Scott_xP said:Latest: senior Tories think we may be into the final hours of the Truss government.
Several ministers are on resignation watch, no confidence letters are flowing into Sir Graham Brady.
One minister: “The government has become a total farce.”
https://www.ft.com/content/639adc81-7805-4e2b-9eff-338c7cc712221 -
Trumpers parted company with the truth years ago.Alistair said:Classic "Facts don't care about your feelings moment" in American politics
https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1582894307169951744
Complete alternative reality moment by the GOP candidate.
You really do wonder where it will end up. I think it has gone beyond Trump fans believing his lies and think they now spout them knowing full well that they are lies.
Nobody with more than half a brain cell believes Trump won the the last election but it's not just thickos pushing that line it is half the candidates now standing for the GOP.2 -
I see Snowflake5 is tearing the Minister a new one....CarlottaVance said:Urgent Question now. Not Shapps answering.
1 -
Call me a fuddy duddy, but I’ll stick with Collins or Macmillan. Do they list “to spaff”?Driver said:
Urban Dictionary disagrees.StuartDickson said:
Poor metaphor.Slackbladder said:
Then she faffs it all up against the wall by making it all about 'independence'.StuartDickson said:
Sturgeon has three advantages over Starmer:ping said:
Hmm. I had that thought, too, listening to PMQ’s. Out of a woman’s mouth it wouldn’t have been problematic, but, yes, Starmer is treading a fine line.StuartDickson said:
A little unfair, perhaps. Politics - and particularly PMQ’s is a bear pit and they know what they’re getting themselves into etc etc.
Gender shouldn’t matter. But it kinda does.
1. She’s a woman and can get away with criticising another woman.
2. Physical distance: Edinburgh/London.
3. She keeps it concise and to the point (“Resign”) whereas Starmer is trying to be a loquacious smarty pants.
The Oaf spaffing his Eton seed up against a wall is visually conceivable, indeed believable, if repulsive.
La Sturgeon making fruitless ejaculations up a wall just doesn’t work.
Spaffing is a peculiarly male preoccupation.0 -
Ho ho.Casino_Royale said:
They need to get on with it rather than steadily dribbling out backbenchers every few hours.Scott_xP said:Latest: senior Tories think we may be into the final hours of the Truss government.
Several ministers are on resignation watch, no confidence letters are flowing into Sir Graham Brady.
One minister: “The government has become a total farce.”
https://www.ft.com/content/639adc81-7805-4e2b-9eff-338c7cc71222
Headless chicken time.
0 -
No resignation speech in the Commons today0
-
We will soon know. The engineers will inspect the cable and report their findings.MattW said:
It's 2 cables to the Shetlands within a week which go in different directions - a bit of a coincidence.Beibheirli_C said:
Why? These thing are usually caused by fishing boats or people dragging anchor in storms. It might even BE storm damage. It was rather windy yesterday.LostPassword said:
Sinking the entire Russian Navy would be a good start.MattW said:
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion *quite* so quickly, though I'd expect it to be the case.ping said:
Cock up rather than conspiracy, I’d guess.williamglenn said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63326102
Communications to Shetland have been completely shut down after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.
There have been incidents with Norwegian cables in the last year.
And no one has any effective ways of defending such cables.
Sinking the entire Russian fleet is a bit of an overreaction perhaps :-). Perhaps it would be keep the subs and certain ships in port.
And allow Ukraine suitable missiles to attack the Western Fleets of the Russian navy. In theory those Iranian suicide drones have the range to reach St Petersburg from Ukraine.0 -
Not Surface Warfare/Aviator/Submariner so he only did the Tarts and Vicars course at BRNC.MattW said:
The GDP of the USA alone is $21 tn; the whole of NATO is well over $40 tn. How on earth does he get basics like that wrong?
He's doing the exact opposite of what he preaches with MRSS which is looking like a very long, complicated and expensive process to acquire two ships that should have been three from a politically astute shipbuilding alliance called "Team UK".0
