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A 2023 Truss exit now a 58% chance in the betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,296
    Meanwhile, the England selectors have finally lost what passes for their marbles. They have taken a Test squad to Pakistan with (a) just one specialist spinner and (b) Liam Livingstone.

    For goodness sakes guys, at least take one of the Parkinsons or Liam Dawson if you couldn't bear to admit you were wrong about Dom Bess.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Play for time.

    Unfortunately she doesn't have enough of it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    But I saw a headline earlier that there would be no cuts to spending, and since growth is nailed on, what's there to worry about?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Have always erred on the sceptical side of whether MPs really would replace Truss but the atmosphere seems to have considerably worsened tonight
    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1580265203937480706
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited October 2022

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Who’s saying that to whom?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.

    I said earlier she should quit for the sake of her health
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341
    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Chas knows a thing or two about plumbing the depths of unpopularity... Not sure his advice would help Liz much though given it took 25 years just to become merely tolerated and he had to bump off his ex-wife too...

    *ducks* ;)
    An utterly infallible wanker indicator, is that wink emoji.

    *ducks* is also pretty reliable.
    No need to be rude ducks.

    :wink:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,239
    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    I can't believe they've scheduled the next fiscal statement for Halloween... I mean headlines have already written themselves have't they?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,316
    edited October 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, the England selectors have finally lost what passes for their marbles. They have taken a Test squad to Pakistan with (a) just one specialist spinner and (b) Liam Livingstone.

    For goodness sakes guys, at least take one of the Parkinsons or Liam Dawson if you couldn't bear to admit you were wrong about Dom Bess.

    I give you Joe Root, with 47 test wickets.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Extraordinary briefing from MPs after the 1922 committee tonight, all of it describing the mood ranging from terrible to abysmal. Sort of stuff you’d expect in a premiership in its dying days, after years, not in its second month.

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1580263120349450240
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    I can't believe they've scheduled the next fiscal statement for Halloween... I mean headlines have already written themselves have't they?
    Maybe they were envisaging positive headlines about slashing taxes?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,239

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Chas knows a thing or two about plumbing the depths of unpopularity... Not sure his advice would help Liz much though given it took 25 years just to become merely tolerated and he had to bump off his ex-wife too...

    *ducks* ;)
    An utterly infallible wanker indicator, is that wink emoji.

    *ducks* is also pretty reliable.
    No need to be rude ducks.

    :wink:
    I think he's a bit upset with me? I've been here for 16 years and it's the first time someone's got really, really pissed off with me lol!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,566
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    But I saw a headline earlier that there would be no cuts to spending, and since growth is nailed on, what's there to worry about?
    If they present government spending as a proportion of GDP then they could probably get away with large real terms cuts, if current economic forecasts hold...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,296
    edited October 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, the England selectors have finally lost what passes for their marbles. They have taken a Test squad to Pakistan with (a) just one specialist spinner and (b) Liam Livingstone.

    For goodness sakes guys, at least take one of the Parkinsons or Liam Dawson if you couldn't bear to admit you were wrong about Dom Bess.

    I give you Joe Root, with 50 test wickets.
    And I give you lots of Pakistani batsmen who will much enjoy walloping him to the far side of the Hindu Kush.

    Edit - he seems to be an unusual bowler, he has fewer wickets as time passes!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Chas knows a thing or two about plumbing the depths of unpopularity... Not sure his advice would help Liz much though given it took 25 years just to become merely tolerated and he had to bump off his ex-wife too...

    *ducks* ;)
    An utterly infallible wanker indicator, is that wink emoji.

    *ducks* is also pretty reliable.
    The name at the top of a post is usually sufficient, but is highly subjective to individual taste of course so no one agrees.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    One senior Tory tells me the 1922 committee was “funereal”, another says it was a complete “disaster”. A third says anyone with a majority less than 10k is toast.

    This is not surprising - they laughed at her at PMQs.

    There’s a sense of inevitability about Truss’s demise.


    https://twitter.com/freddiejh8/status/1580271652176527362
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,456
    Some details and photos on Twitter of the Crimean bridge damage:
    https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1580225856504414208

    Apparently only ten cars are being allowed across at a time, every half-hour. Perhaps because of the repair/inspection work, though it sounds (and looks) bad. Also, 900 trucks are waiting for the ferry to Crimea - a waiting time of 3 or 4 days.

    Even though most of the bridge is still standing, and even if the restrictions on the remaining road bridge spans are lifted in the next few days, it's going to have hurt Russian logistics considerably.

    Oh, and congrats to @Casino_Royale
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,566

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    She's still got the necklace on. Enjoying it.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,802
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Russia climbs out of recession. Extraordimary

    https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/10/11/as-europe-falls-into-recession-russia-climbs-out

    Sanctions took about 3-4% off the economy, not the expected 8-10%

    Meanwhile Europe teeters near to outright collapse

    I wouldn't believe the Russian growth figures. They're probably outright lies.
    Afterall, that's where the phrase 'tractor stats' does come from.
    The Economist believes this. Coz this isn't Russian data, they are using more reliable indicators
    With all due respect, it's not that surprising at all:

    Russia exports commodities, particularly energy. 54% (last year!) of all exports were energy. The price of coal is up 4x, the price of their LNG cargoes to China and Japan has trebled, what they (previously) got for sending gas to Europe was at 6x what they got in 2021, and the price of oil is up, even if not so much.

    In other words - and I said this months ago - the war is partially self funding because it increases the value of Russia's exports.

    The problem is that the energy economy is not the economy of most of the country. If you work in a factory where parts have been cut off due to sanctions, then your factory isn't working. GDP in total can look fine, but you are personally doing shit.

    And it doesn't help Russia with their core problem with the war: they are expending materiel far more quickly than they are producing it. Those drones and missiles and rockets rely on technology from China, Korea, Taiwan and Japan (and probably the UK, France and Germany too). Even the starter motors on their tanks are going to rely on batteries that aren't made in Russia.

    That - not a GDP buouyed by energy prices - is Russia's problem.

    Oh yeah... and every day Europe (and the world) gets less dependent and less hooked on Russian energy. So when the war ends, and it will end, Russia will see reduced prices and fewer customers. That's not a great place to be.
    In the long run Russia's economy is screwed. That said in the long run we're all dead.

    If you look at oil prices they've come down over the last few months and China/India are buying at a discount. Leaving aside the logistical challenges of selling Russian oil there. I doubt they are making much profit on it now. Gas is a smaller earner but is completely reliant on the European market. So where is the money now going to come from? Also remember that a good deal of Russian GDP will now be directed towards the war 'effort'. That said a quicker economic collapse leading to regime change would have been better but you can't have everything.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tory & Truss backer tells me '22 was worst they'd witnessed for any PM

    "There's a lot of Qs about Kwasi. MPs think he is a busted flush already. Maybe Liz'll have to make changes

    "I feel embarrassed to have sold [the PM] as a safe pair of hands. I sold them a pup"


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1580276459154784256

    Her first public hustings session showed the real Liz Truss. The worst of the candidates offered up.

    Anybody who thinks that Liz Truss was a "safe pair of hands" should be seriously considering their career choice. Because we put the security of the nation's finances in people making that judgment call.

    Tory MPs. What a bunch of muppets.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,605

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    That’s a really brutal way to put it. She seems unbowed. I think likes the chaos and unpopularity. It validates her. It’s her new era. It proves she’s having an impact. The more unpopular she becomes, the bigger the impact. Maggie was unpopular in her early years.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Tory MP on his way out of the 1922 Committee.

    "There's nothing between the ears. She didn't answer a bloody question and kept asking us what we should do. It's clear panic has set in."

    https://twitter.com/8jlogan/status/1580245015947018242?s=46&t=JqZDbKABYXg4uCmV-rI_Og
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341
    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Chas knows a thing or two about plumbing the depths of unpopularity... Not sure his advice would help Liz much though given it took 25 years just to become merely tolerated and he had to bump off his ex-wife too...

    *ducks* ;)
    An utterly infallible wanker indicator, is that wink emoji.

    *ducks* is also pretty reliable.
    No need to be rude ducks.

    :wink:
    I think he's a bit upset with me? I've been here for 16 years and it's the first time someone's got really, really pissed off with me lol!
    No, I think an abusive diatribe is just Ishmael's way of saying 'Hello and how are you?'
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    She has a majority of 71...

    Government discipline update

    3 line whip on today's vote for the Conservatives. Whips trying to enforce discipline

    Yet just 233 of 356 Tory MPs turn up to vote

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1580242661088591872/photo/1
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    darkage said:

    Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program


    https://www.commonsense.news/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta&utm_source=substack

    When we think of assisted suicide or euthanasia, we imagine a limited number of elderly people with late-stage cancer or advanced ALS in severe pain. The argument for helping them die is clear: Death is imminent. Why should they be forced to suffer?

    In 2015, Canada’s Supreme Court ruled that assisted suicide was constitutional. In June 2016, Parliament passed Bill C-14, otherwise known as the Medical Assistance in Dying Act. MAiD was now the law of the land. Anyone who could show that their death was “reasonably foreseeable” was eligible...

    Today, thousands of people who could live for many years are applying—successfully—to kill themselves.

    Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent. Progressive Vancouver Island is unofficially known as the “assisted-death capital of the world,” doctors told me.

    Why the dramatic increase? Over the past few years, doctors have taken an increasingly liberal view when it comes to defining “reasonably foreseeable” death. Then, last year, the government amended the original legislation, stating that one could apply for MAiD even if one’s death were not reasonably foreseeable. This second track of applicants simply had to show that they had a condition that was “intolerable to them” and could not “be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable...

    Next March, the government is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide-seekers to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.” According to Canada’s Department of Justice, parents are generally “entitled to make treatment decisions on their children’s behalf. The mature minor doctrine, however, allows children deemed sufficiently mature to make their own treatment decisions.”

    Do you regard this as a good thing or bad thing....its not clear?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    I can't believe they've scheduled the next fiscal statement for Halloween... I mean headlines have already written themselves have't they?
    Maybe they were envisaging positive headlines about slashing taxes?
    "Tricks or treats" is too obvious, so need to think of other puns. Spooked markets? Truss looks haunted?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Incredible scenes on channel 4. Worth staying for the last five seconds of this https://twitter.com/ImIncorrigible/status/1580277825000480768/video/1
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    I can't believe they've scheduled the next fiscal statement for Halloween... I mean headlines have already written themselves have't they?
    Maybe they were envisaging positive headlines about slashing taxes?
    It will be THE WALKING DEAD OF DOWNING STREET
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,376
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,316
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, the England selectors have finally lost what passes for their marbles. They have taken a Test squad to Pakistan with (a) just one specialist spinner and (b) Liam Livingstone.

    For goodness sakes guys, at least take one of the Parkinsons or Liam Dawson if you couldn't bear to admit you were wrong about Dom Bess.

    I give you Joe Root, with 50 test wickets.
    And I give you lots of Pakistani batsmen who will much enjoy walloping him to the far side of the Hindu Kush.

    Edit - he seems to be an unusual bowler, he has fewer wickets as time passes!
    They’ve worked him out! Actually think he took a lot of wickets early in his career as batsmen didn’t give him enough respect. Now treated a bit more like a real bowler. Also he bowled a shed load of overs trying for a five wicket haul last winter (I think).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,296
    Pagan2 said:

    darkage said:

    Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program


    https://www.commonsense.news/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta&utm_source=substack

    When we think of assisted suicide or euthanasia, we imagine a limited number of elderly people with late-stage cancer or advanced ALS in severe pain. The argument for helping them die is clear: Death is imminent. Why should they be forced to suffer?

    In 2015, Canada’s Supreme Court ruled that assisted suicide was constitutional. In June 2016, Parliament passed Bill C-14, otherwise known as the Medical Assistance in Dying Act. MAiD was now the law of the land. Anyone who could show that their death was “reasonably foreseeable” was eligible...

    Today, thousands of people who could live for many years are applying—successfully—to kill themselves.

    Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent. Progressive Vancouver Island is unofficially known as the “assisted-death capital of the world,” doctors told me.

    Why the dramatic increase? Over the past few years, doctors have taken an increasingly liberal view when it comes to defining “reasonably foreseeable” death. Then, last year, the government amended the original legislation, stating that one could apply for MAiD even if one’s death were not reasonably foreseeable. This second track of applicants simply had to show that they had a condition that was “intolerable to them” and could not “be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable...

    Next March, the government is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide-seekers to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.” According to Canada’s Department of Justice, parents are generally “entitled to make treatment decisions on their children’s behalf. The mature minor doctrine, however, allows children deemed sufficiently mature to make their own treatment decisions.”

    Do you regard this as a good thing or bad thing....its not clear?
    I'm just perturbed at this notion that one's death cannot be 'reasonably foreseeable.'

    I mean - surely it's a stone certainty?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Extraordinary statement from a Conservative MP who attended the 1922:

    “After tonight most Tory MPs accept that our current leader, given the decisions she took with the Fiscal Statement, can never provide the reassurance needed to arrest the loss of market confidence…


    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580280661944201222
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,316
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, the England selectors have finally lost what passes for their marbles. They have taken a Test squad to Pakistan with (a) just one specialist spinner and (b) Liam Livingstone.

    For goodness sakes guys, at least take one of the Parkinsons or Liam Dawson if you couldn't bear to admit you were wrong about Dom Bess.

    I give you Joe Root, with 50 test wickets.
    And I give you lots of Pakistani batsmen who will much enjoy walloping him to the far side of the Hindu Kush.

    Edit - he seems to be an unusual bowler, he has fewer wickets as time passes!
    50 was a guess, pb full of wankers who know how to find stuff out and love to be pedantic, equals hasty correction to 47…
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Breaking: A Connecticut court rules Alex Jones owes Sandy Hook victims over $1 billion.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384
    The provision for children's mental health is truly a scandal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/12/judge-approves-unlawful-placement-for-girl-13-at-risk-of-suicide

    £9k per week for an unsuitable placement.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,605

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    I can't believe they've scheduled the next fiscal statement for Halloween... I mean headlines have already written themselves have't they?
    Maybe they were envisaging positive headlines about slashing taxes?
    It will be THE WALKING DEAD OF DOWNING STREET
    Ghost Tory
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Britain’s national debt was on track to fall to its lowest level since the financial crisis in 2009 under former Chancellor Rishi Sunak, according to the IMF https://trib.al/NoeeDRu https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1580230697276407812/photo/1
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Canada Suicide Program = English Conservative members’ “leadership” (ho ho) election
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341
    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It's a baptism of fire.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Chas knows a thing or two about plumbing the depths of unpopularity... Not sure his advice would help Liz much though given it took 25 years just to become merely tolerated and he had to bump off his ex-wife too...

    *ducks* ;)
    An utterly infallible wanker indicator, is that wink emoji.

    *ducks* is also pretty reliable.
    I use that wink emoji quite frequently and I can assure you that I have never wanked.

    Perhaps you meant an "... infallible winker indicator..."? :wink:
  • Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: A Connecticut court rules Alex Jones owes Sandy Hook victims over $1 billion.

    This is why the legal profession is the best profession in the world.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,450

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    I can't believe they've scheduled the next fiscal statement for Halloween... I mean headlines have already written themselves have't they?
    Maybe they were envisaging positive headlines about slashing taxes?
    "Tricks or treats" is too obvious, so need to think of other puns. Spooked markets? Truss looks haunted?

    Witch Tory MP will leap first. In this ghoulish destruction of the Tories it’s leading to a nightmare before Christmas. The party, and the country needs a new broom-stick but will be haunted by black magic economics - and the Tories are faced with the horror show real life butchering by Sir Keir Dahmer.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384

    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It's a baptism of fire.
    A funeral pyre.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    darkage said:

    Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program


    https://www.commonsense.news/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta&utm_source=substack

    When we think of assisted suicide or euthanasia, we imagine a limited number of elderly people with late-stage cancer or advanced ALS in severe pain. The argument for helping them die is clear: Death is imminent. Why should they be forced to suffer?

    In 2015, Canada’s Supreme Court ruled that assisted suicide was constitutional. In June 2016, Parliament passed Bill C-14, otherwise known as the Medical Assistance in Dying Act. MAiD was now the law of the land. Anyone who could show that their death was “reasonably foreseeable” was eligible...

    Today, thousands of people who could live for many years are applying—successfully—to kill themselves.

    Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent. Progressive Vancouver Island is unofficially known as the “assisted-death capital of the world,” doctors told me.

    Why the dramatic increase? Over the past few years, doctors have taken an increasingly liberal view when it comes to defining “reasonably foreseeable” death. Then, last year, the government amended the original legislation, stating that one could apply for MAiD even if one’s death were not reasonably foreseeable. This second track of applicants simply had to show that they had a condition that was “intolerable to them” and could not “be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable...

    Next March, the government is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide-seekers to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.” According to Canada’s Department of Justice, parents are generally “entitled to make treatment decisions on their children’s behalf. The mature minor doctrine, however, allows children deemed sufficiently mature to make their own treatment decisions.”

    Do you regard this as a good thing or bad thing....its not clear?
    I'm just perturbed at this notion that one's death cannot be 'reasonably foreseeable.'

    I mean - surely it's a stone certainty?
    Of course its reasonably forseeable. I got the feeling though the gist was how dare the canadian government enable people to use a dignitas service.

    Personally I would look at the stats. They state 5% of deaths in canada are now via this MAiD. If MAiD deaths plus other suicides <= suicides before MAiD then it is a win as you have less people jumping in front of trains etc causing less trauma to innocent bystanders and a lesser economic effect via disruption
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,715
    edited October 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Chas knows a thing or two about plumbing the depths of unpopularity... Not sure his advice would help Liz much though given it took 25 years just to become merely tolerated and he had to bump off his ex-wife too...

    *ducks* ;)
    An utterly infallible wanker indicator, is that wink emoji.

    *ducks* is also pretty reliable.
    I use that wink emoji quite frequently and I can assure you that I have never wanked.

    Perhaps you meant an "... infallible winker indicator..."? :wink:
    You won't get any reply, alas. He's got the Moderator Pox. Dunno why.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    There's quite a big difference between Betfair markets for Truss to be leader at GE and Truss to face a confidence vote.

    She is LESS likely to be leader at GE - which implies significant chance of resignation without a confidence vote.
  • Pagan2 said:

    darkage said:

    Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program


    https://www.commonsense.news/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta&utm_source=substack

    When we think of assisted suicide or euthanasia, we imagine a limited number of elderly people with late-stage cancer or advanced ALS in severe pain. The argument for helping them die is clear: Death is imminent. Why should they be forced to suffer?

    In 2015, Canada’s Supreme Court ruled that assisted suicide was constitutional. In June 2016, Parliament passed Bill C-14, otherwise known as the Medical Assistance in Dying Act. MAiD was now the law of the land. Anyone who could show that their death was “reasonably foreseeable” was eligible...

    Today, thousands of people who could live for many years are applying—successfully—to kill themselves.

    Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent. Progressive Vancouver Island is unofficially known as the “assisted-death capital of the world,” doctors told me.

    Why the dramatic increase? Over the past few years, doctors have taken an increasingly liberal view when it comes to defining “reasonably foreseeable” death. Then, last year, the government amended the original legislation, stating that one could apply for MAiD even if one’s death were not reasonably foreseeable. This second track of applicants simply had to show that they had a condition that was “intolerable to them” and could not “be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable...

    Next March, the government is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide-seekers to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.” According to Canada’s Department of Justice, parents are generally “entitled to make treatment decisions on their children’s behalf. The mature minor doctrine, however, allows children deemed sufficiently mature to make their own treatment decisions.”

    Do you regard this as a good thing or bad thing....its not clear?
    Well I see it as bad. What next?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384
    Totally forgot it was PMQ'S.
    How'd it go?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Truss: “Your Majesty… Lovely to see you again.”

    King: “Back again. Dear oh dear. Anyway…”

    This is one of the greatest things I’ve ever seen. 😂😂

    https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1580281365899096065?s=46&t=JqZDbKABYXg4uCmV-rI_Og
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    Scott_xP said:

    Extraordinary statement from a Conservative MP who attended the 1922:

    “After tonight most Tory MPs accept that our current leader, given the decisions she took with the Fiscal Statement, can never provide the reassurance needed to arrest the loss of market confidence…


    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580280661944201222

    I wonder how may letters are in? It doesn't immediately matter if the 22 don't change the rules. But the 22 is a big part of the problem.

    Perhaps Conservative MPs need a new iteration of the 22?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,376
    Pagan2 said:

    darkage said:

    Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program


    https://www.commonsense.news/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta&utm_source=substack

    When we think of assisted suicide or euthanasia, we imagine a limited number of elderly people with late-stage cancer or advanced ALS in severe pain. The argument for helping them die is clear: Death is imminent. Why should they be forced to suffer?

    In 2015, Canada’s Supreme Court ruled that assisted suicide was constitutional. In June 2016, Parliament passed Bill C-14, otherwise known as the Medical Assistance in Dying Act. MAiD was now the law of the land. Anyone who could show that their death was “reasonably foreseeable” was eligible...

    Today, thousands of people who could live for many years are applying—successfully—to kill themselves.

    Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent. Progressive Vancouver Island is unofficially known as the “assisted-death capital of the world,” doctors told me.

    Why the dramatic increase? Over the past few years, doctors have taken an increasingly liberal view when it comes to defining “reasonably foreseeable” death. Then, last year, the government amended the original legislation, stating that one could apply for MAiD even if one’s death were not reasonably foreseeable. This second track of applicants simply had to show that they had a condition that was “intolerable to them” and could not “be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable...

    Next March, the government is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide-seekers to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.” According to Canada’s Department of Justice, parents are generally “entitled to make treatment decisions on their children’s behalf. The mature minor doctrine, however, allows children deemed sufficiently mature to make their own treatment decisions.”

    Do you regard this as a good thing or bad thing....its not clear?
    Its just a story that I thought was interesting. I assume it is true but haven't checked out the source. I wasn't trying to write a header about assisted dying.

    There is a powerful idea that people should be stopped from committing suicide. I find it interesting that a society could move to a position where suicide is not a taboo and is actually facilitated by the state, as seems to be the case here. The idea that children who are 12 can make this decision seems very odd (under the 'mature minor' rule).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597
    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It's a baptism of fire.
    A funeral pyre.
    It was all there in the first debate. The members didn't care.

    They laid the wood on the pyre.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    dixiedean said:

    The provision for children's mental health is truly a scandal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/12/judge-approves-unlawful-placement-for-girl-13-at-risk-of-suicide

    £9k per week for an unsuitable placement.

    This is why there needs to be a cap. This will cost taxpayers 2.5million till she is 18. We cannot afford to spend unlimited funds on everyone. It is simply not possible. Yes I have sympathy for the girl but there has to be a cut off point for an individual where we say sorry no more.

    Not trying to be callous merely what NICE and the NHS does all the time make cost judgements on whether things make sense to treat
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: A Connecticut court rules Alex Jones owes Sandy Hook victims over $1 billion.

    This is why the legal profession is the best profession in the world.
    Can they prove that in court?
  • darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It's a baptism of fire.
    At least some of it is self-inflicted, and it's the sort of baptism that makes parishioners nervously phone the archdeacon. Father seems tired and distracted, that sort of thing.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807
    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It really is, and as I said earlier it is hard on a human level not to feel sympathy for her. She is just so utterly at sea now, I don't think there's anything left for it but to just bite the bullet and get rid.

    For her personally it will be devastating if she leaves office so soon. I have never seen a politician so comprehensively trash their reputation two weeks into a job before. It is gloriously chaotic, but sad in a way. I hope this makes people think long and hard before putting themselves forward for the highest job in the land now - it is not an easy job, it is not a game, and it is not the place to go radical without a clear mandate behind you.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    WillG said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    I know we're not meant to say this, and I am a "fucking appeaser", and after this I will kill myself in shame, but looking at the bald economic stats: Russia could win this war

    Because it is Europe which is bleeding out, not Russia. Despite everything

    Presumably this is because the price of raw materials, energy etc, which Russia exports, has gone up?

    It was inevitable that Europe was going to suffer when this war started. But just as things start to get bad for Europeans, Russia keeps doing things that remind them to continue supporting the war, like bombing childrens playgrounds. And then they make territorial claims based on sham referendums that irritate its 'allies' who cannot support such acts because of the precedents it would set for their own territorial problems and disputes. So it keeps going with these bizarre own goals by the master strategist Putin.

    I don't really see how Russia wins the
    war because it can't easily fix the problems with its military, even if it pumps unlimited amounts of money in to it, it cannot really change anything. Russia doesn't have the motivation to win and Ukraine does.

    The idea that Russia is only 3-4% down on pre-invasion GDP is clearly bunkum. They have had hundreds of thousands of young professionals leave the country, disproportionately from
    skilled, productive trades. In addition, we know there are shortages in a lot of manufacturing
    plants, slowing production. It's just clearly
    nonsense numbers.
    Yes, clearly down to energy fluctuations and / or the price of oil. A more meaningful measure would be GDP ex-energy production, which The Economist didn't comment on, which is bizarre.

    Also look at this in terms of the $ - Russia is a commodity producer and commodities are priced in dollars. Which raises the question of what their GDP numbers will be like when commodities fall.

    That is an absolutely shit argument. It's like saying those of working age in this country must be much better off than the elderly because look how much younger and harder working they are. Earned and unearned money are exactly equally valuable dollar for dollar.
    Nope. One is more valuable than the other, if only because of the volatility angle.

    If GDP growth is generated by healthy industry and a wealthy population, it has a resilience commodity prices don't.

    If you want a real-life example, look at commodity rich countries in Africa. By your argument, they should be happy with remaining commodity providers if prices remain high. But any sensible person knows that's a fool's game because prices can change beyond your control. It's part of the reason why the Middle East countries are trying to diversify.
    What? In any business at all demand for the product can balloon or vanish. I have probably been to a minimum of 5x as many African countries as you have. The reason they are fucked is not what you think it is.
    I have been to 8 - South Africa, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Swaziland, Lesotho, Mozambique, Tanzania, Kenya. You must have travelled around Africa a lot.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597
    Liz exit by xmas back down to 6.8 on BF.

    Pretty sure it was 11 earlier.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @RoyalFamily
    🤝 The King welcomes Prime Minister Liz Truss to Buckingham Palace for the first of their regular weekly audiences.


    image

    https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1580269333582077952

    "Can you give me any tips on how to boost my approval ratings?"
    Chas knows a thing or two about plumbing the depths of unpopularity... Not sure his advice would help Liz much though given it took 25 years just to become merely tolerated and he had to bump off his ex-wife too...

    *ducks* ;)
    An utterly infallible wanker indicator, is that wink emoji.

    *ducks* is also pretty reliable.
    I use that wink emoji quite frequently and I can assure you that I have never wanked.

    Perhaps you meant an "... infallible winker indicator..."? :wink:
    You won't get any reply, alas. He's got the Moderator Pox. Dunno why.
    Was probably the comment about euthanizing radio head fans...nods
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Tory PM's even in dire times normally get some orchestrated support at the 1922. Not tonight with Truss. Parliamentary party in large part has given up on her after two days back.

    Liz Truss in fresh peril as senior Tory MPs round on her over economy https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/12/liz-truss-in-fresh-peril-as-senior-tory-mps-round-on-her-over-economy?CMP=share_btn_tw
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    dixiedean said:

    Totally forgot it was PMQ'S.
    How'd it go?

    Alarmingly for Labour, Starmer didn't do great....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The provision for children's mental health is truly a scandal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/12/judge-approves-unlawful-placement-for-girl-13-at-risk-of-suicide

    £9k per week for an unsuitable placement.

    This is why there needs to be a cap. This will cost taxpayers 2.5million till she is 18. We cannot afford to spend unlimited funds on everyone. It is simply not possible. Yes I have sympathy for the girl but there has to be a cut off point for an individual where we say sorry no more.

    Not trying to be callous merely what NICE and the NHS does all the time make cost judgements on whether things make sense to treat
    She'd be a lot better off being sent to an very good girl's boarding school than a 'therapeutic children's home' (even the term gives me the creeps) and it would be a lot cheaper.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss’s economic relationship with her party - and the country - so far feels like that old joke:
    Question: What's an Australian’s idea of foreplay? Answer: ‘Brace yourself, Sheila'.

    But as Oct31 looms, her MPs are refusing to brace themselves for more fiscal punishment


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580268509585879040

    I can't believe they've scheduled the next fiscal statement for Halloween... I mean headlines have already written themselves have't they?
    Maybe they were envisaging positive headlines about slashing taxes?
    It will be THE WALKING DEAD OF DOWNING STREET
    Ghost Tory
    Must say I did wonder when they announced 31st Oct what the hell they were thinking.

    The comms of Team Truss are the worst I have ever seen.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited October 2022

    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It really is, and as I said earlier it is hard on a human level not to feel sympathy for her. She is just so utterly at sea now, I don't think there's anything left for it but to just bite the bullet and get rid.

    For her personally it will be devastating if she leaves office so soon. I have never seen a politician so comprehensively trash their reputation two weeks into a job before. It is gloriously chaotic, but sad in a way. I hope this makes people think long and hard before putting themselves forward for the highest job in the land now - it is not an easy job, it is not a game, and it is not the place to go radical without a clear mandate behind you.
    It's not even about mandate, but investing effort. You cannot just announce and assume it'll go exactly as you want, even amongst your friends and allies.

    There's a reason some very good leaders have struggled for years to get grand plans through, and it wasn't because every single one lacked boldness or vision. It's because it can be hard.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597
    Scott_xP said:

    Extraordinary statement from a Conservative MP who attended the 1922:

    “After tonight most Tory MPs accept that our current leader, given the decisions she took with the Fiscal Statement, can never provide the reassurance needed to arrest the loss of market confidence…


    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580280661944201222

    Apart from that though, it's all fine.

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,907
    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It's a baptism of fire.
    A funeral pyre.
    Don't forget, folks. This is her popularity *before* the winter blackouts start.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,296
    edited October 2022

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The provision for children's mental health is truly a scandal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/12/judge-approves-unlawful-placement-for-girl-13-at-risk-of-suicide

    £9k per week for an unsuitable placement.

    This is why there needs to be a cap. This will cost taxpayers 2.5million till she is 18. We cannot afford to spend unlimited funds on everyone. It is simply not possible. Yes I have sympathy for the girl but there has to be a cut off point for an individual where we say sorry no more.

    Not trying to be callous merely what NICE and the NHS does all the time make cost judgements on whether things make sense to treat
    She'd be a lot better off being sent to an very good girl's boarding school than a 'therapeutic children's home' (even the term gives me the creeps) and it would be a lot cheaper.
    Clearly you have never worked in a very good girls' boarding school.

    Let's just say, the level of neuroses there tend to be about 75% above the average.

    It is the last place you would ever think of somebody psychologically fragile, never mind with this girl's medical history.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,920
    Labour need to lay down a VONC. Tomorrow. Too good an opportunity to miss.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    “Something will need to happen as we can’t go on like this for over 2 years”, one level-headed Tory MP tells me.

    Little over a month since Liz Truss became PM and already Conservative MPs are seriously suggesting she may have to go. What a turn of events.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1580289006905937922
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865

    Pagan2 said:

    darkage said:

    Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program


    https://www.commonsense.news/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta&utm_source=substack

    When we think of assisted suicide or euthanasia, we imagine a limited number of elderly people with late-stage cancer or advanced ALS in severe pain. The argument for helping them die is clear: Death is imminent. Why should they be forced to suffer?

    In 2015, Canada’s Supreme Court ruled that assisted suicide was constitutional. In June 2016, Parliament passed Bill C-14, otherwise known as the Medical Assistance in Dying Act. MAiD was now the law of the land. Anyone who could show that their death was “reasonably foreseeable” was eligible...

    Today, thousands of people who could live for many years are applying—successfully—to kill themselves.

    Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent. Progressive Vancouver Island is unofficially known as the “assisted-death capital of the world,” doctors told me.

    Why the dramatic increase? Over the past few years, doctors have taken an increasingly liberal view when it comes to defining “reasonably foreseeable” death. Then, last year, the government amended the original legislation, stating that one could apply for MAiD even if one’s death were not reasonably foreseeable. This second track of applicants simply had to show that they had a condition that was “intolerable to them” and could not “be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable...

    Next March, the government is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide-seekers to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.” According to Canada’s Department of Justice, parents are generally “entitled to make treatment decisions on their children’s behalf. The mature minor doctrine, however, allows children deemed sufficiently mature to make their own treatment decisions.”

    Do you regard this as a good thing or bad thing....its not clear?
    Well I see it as bad. What next?
    Question what percentage of deaths were by suicide before MAiD and no I don't regard it as necessarily a bad thing.

    For example...MAiD....you have to talk to a psychiatrist first to get on the program(not saying this happens saying would be easy to make it happen first) ....result a lot of people feeling suicidal may get turned off the idea rather than not seeking help and doing an od or jumping in front of trains.

    You need to look at percentage death by suicide before maid against maid deaths + suicides after maid. If the former is lower than the latter then maid is a good thing
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899
    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: A Connecticut court rules Alex Jones owes Sandy Hook victims over $1 billion.

    Blimey that is a lot of money, still at least Alex can console himself that it could be worse, he could be in Liz Truss's shoes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The provision for children's mental health is truly a scandal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/12/judge-approves-unlawful-placement-for-girl-13-at-risk-of-suicide

    £9k per week for an unsuitable placement.

    This is why there needs to be a cap. This will cost taxpayers 2.5million till she is 18. We cannot afford to spend unlimited funds on everyone. It is simply not possible. Yes I have sympathy for the girl but there has to be a cut off point for an individual where we say sorry no more.

    Not trying to be callous merely what NICE and the NHS does all the time make cost judgements on whether things make sense to treat
    She'd be a lot better off being sent to an very good girl's boarding school than a 'therapeutic children's home' (even the term gives me the creeps) and it would be a lot cheaper.
    Clearly you have never worked in a very good girls' boarding school.

    Let's just say, the level of neuroses there tend to be about 75% above the average.

    It is the last place you would ever think of somebody psychologically fragile, never mind with this girl's medical history.
    Well she'd be in good company then.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Londoners outside the Supreme Court back indyref2 over 'Westminster crooks' thenational.scot/news/23043552.…

    https://twitter.com/helen91155348/status/1580283753263661056?s=46&t=JqZDbKABYXg4uCmV-rI_Og
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,296
    kyf_100 said:

    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It's a baptism of fire.
    A funeral pyre.
    Don't forget, folks. This is her popularity *before* the winter blackouts start.
    I would say the lights have gone out for her already.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    Tory MPs shld never hv got rid of Boris Johnson if they weren't willing to back his successor to the hilt.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,922
    I feel sorry for the ordinary Conservative MPs who have diligently represented their constituents over the last years, didn’t vote for Truss, but are going to lose their seats because their party has been taken over by extremists.
    Also, when you look at the demographics of the people voting for Truss, there is a case for the leadership vote being removed from members over state pension age.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597
    ydoethur said:

    kyf_100 said:

    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It's a baptism of fire.
    A funeral pyre.
    Don't forget, folks. This is her popularity *before* the winter blackouts start.
    I would say the lights have gone out for her already.
    She wont be there by the time the winter blackouts start unless they are in early November.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:

    Extraordinary statement from a Conservative MP who attended the 1922:

    “After tonight most Tory MPs accept that our current leader, given the decisions she took with the Fiscal Statement, can never provide the reassurance needed to arrest the loss of market confidence…


    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580280661944201222

    I wonder how may letters are in? It doesn't immediately matter if the 22 don't change the rules. But the 22 is a big part of the problem.

    Perhaps Conservative MPs need a new iteration of the 22?
    Definitely.

    The 22 is crippling the party.
  • kyf_100 said:

    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Like others I hear that the mood at tonight’s 1922 was very bad. I’m told MPs were “utterly shocked” by the PM’s performance. “From delusion to devastation — writ large on her face.” Feels like, if anything, her situation has worsened.
    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580265694750715904

    I don't see how she makes it to Christmas. Nothing, but nothing, is getting better for her. With no prospect on the horizon either. I mean, the Kherson garrison could surrender, Putin could get taken and shot, his successor could pull troops out of Ukraine, the world could brief a massive sigh of relief, markets could have a massive uptick. But they have already seen structural problems that need to be fixed even if that 2% scenario played out, so unlikely she would be out of the woods.

    Psychologically, she must be crushed. You have put the hubristic you out there for all to see. But your self-belief is shared by nobody else.

    Far stronger people have been broken by that level of destruction of your world - in full view of the world.
    Yes, for her it has been a perfect storm. So many things - both her own fault and not her fault - have all come together, and her reputation has been simply shattered by it. She could walk on water tomorrow and people would not be swayed.

    It might be no one could now face down this mess, much as May could not handle the Brexit divisions, but she's not even done so well.
    There is a question in my mind as to whether she understands and appreciates just how bad it is. She appears to be in denial. But it is a political failure, of the type we have never witnessed before on this level.
    It's a baptism of fire.
    A funeral pyre.
    Don't forget, folks. This is her popularity *before* the winter blackouts start.
    Then the pyre will be a useful source of warmth and light.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I feel sorry for the ordinary Conservative MPs who have diligently represented their constituents over the last years, didn’t vote for Truss, but are going to lose their seats because their party has been taken over by extremists.
    Also, when you look at the demographics of the people voting for Truss, there is a case for the leadership vote being removed from members over state pension age.

    A little sorry.
    Not a lot sorry.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,907

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tory & Truss backer tells me '22 was worst they'd witnessed for any PM

    "There's a lot of Qs about Kwasi. MPs think he is a busted flush already. Maybe Liz'll have to make changes

    "I feel embarrassed to have sold [the PM] as a safe pair of hands. I sold them a pup"


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1580276459154784256

    Her first public hustings session showed the real Liz Truss. The worst of the candidates offered up.

    Anybody who thinks that Liz Truss was a "safe pair of hands" should be seriously considering their career choice. Because we put the security of the nation's finances in people making that judgment call.

    Tory MPs. What a bunch of muppets.
    Yes… and the party members (or at least a large majority of them) make the MPs look like savants.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    Scott_xP said:

    “Something will need to happen as we can’t go on like this for over 2 years”, one level-headed Tory MP tells me.

    Little over a month since Liz Truss became PM and already Conservative MPs are seriously suggesting she may have to go. What a turn of events.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1580289006905937922

    And two weeks of that was HM the Qs funeral....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597
    Scott_xP said:

    “Something will need to happen as we can’t go on like this for over 2 years”, one level-headed Tory MP tells me.

    Little over a month since Liz Truss became PM and already Conservative MPs are seriously suggesting she may have to go. What a turn of events.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1580289006905937922

    All this was predicted by some of us on PB. I said, as others did here, repeatedly that she would be an utter disaster.

    Maybe Tory MPs should spend more time on our blog?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970

    Londoners outside the Supreme Court back indyref2 over 'Westminster crooks' thenational.scot/news/23043552.…

    https://twitter.com/helen91155348/status/1580283753263661056?s=46&t=JqZDbKABYXg4uCmV-rI_Og

    A stunning intervention from The National, which will no doubt be enjoyed by its solitary remaining reader
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    darkage said:

    Pagan2 said:

    darkage said:

    Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program


    https://www.commonsense.news/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta&utm_source=substack

    When we think of assisted suicide or euthanasia, we imagine a limited number of elderly people with late-stage cancer or advanced ALS in severe pain. The argument for helping them die is clear: Death is imminent. Why should they be forced to suffer?

    In 2015, Canada’s Supreme Court ruled that assisted suicide was constitutional. In June 2016, Parliament passed Bill C-14, otherwise known as the Medical Assistance in Dying Act. MAiD was now the law of the land. Anyone who could show that their death was “reasonably foreseeable” was eligible...

    Today, thousands of people who could live for many years are applying—successfully—to kill themselves.

    Indeed, in some Canadian provinces nearly 5 percent of deaths are MAiD deaths. In 2021, the province of Quebec reported that 4.7 percent of deaths in the province were due to MAiD; in British Columbia, the number was 4.8 percent. Progressive Vancouver Island is unofficially known as the “assisted-death capital of the world,” doctors told me.

    Why the dramatic increase? Over the past few years, doctors have taken an increasingly liberal view when it comes to defining “reasonably foreseeable” death. Then, last year, the government amended the original legislation, stating that one could apply for MAiD even if one’s death were not reasonably foreseeable. This second track of applicants simply had to show that they had a condition that was “intolerable to them” and could not “be relieved under conditions that they consider acceptable...

    Next March, the government is scheduled to expand the pool of eligible suicide-seekers to include the mentally ill and “mature minors.” According to Canada’s Department of Justice, parents are generally “entitled to make treatment decisions on their children’s behalf. The mature minor doctrine, however, allows children deemed sufficiently mature to make their own treatment decisions.”

    Do you regard this as a good thing or bad thing....its not clear?
    Its just a story that I thought was interesting. I assume it is true but haven't checked out the source. I wasn't trying to write a header about assisted dying.

    There is a powerful idea that people should be stopped from committing suicide. I find it interesting that a society could move to a position where suicide is not a taboo and is actually facilitated by the state, as seems to be the case here. The idea that children who are 12 can make this decision seems very odd (under the 'mature minor' rule).
    Well according to many like Sturgeon children of 12 are capable of choosing life altering gender surgery so....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Londoners outside the Supreme Court back indyref2 over 'Westminster crooks' thenational.scot/news/23043552.…

    https://twitter.com/helen91155348/status/1580283753263661056?s=46&t=JqZDbKABYXg4uCmV-rI_Og

    I support an indyref, albeit not from a desire to see it succeed, but that's irrelevant to whether the legal arguments in this case have merit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    TimS said:

    Labour need to lay down a VONC. Tomorrow. Too good an opportunity to miss.

    Nah. Labour want her in place as long as they can.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324

    I feel sorry for the ordinary Conservative MPs who have diligently represented their constituents over the last years, didn’t vote for Truss, but are going to lose their seats because their party has been taken over by extremists.
    Also, when you look at the demographics of the people voting for Truss, there is a case for the leadership vote being removed from members over state pension age.

    True. But did this same MPs care about the same thing happening to diligent local councillors when they were Losing their seats ? It’s only an issue when it affects them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,296

    Londoners outside the Supreme Court back indyref2 over 'Westminster crooks' thenational.scot/news/23043552.…

    https://twitter.com/helen91155348/status/1580283753263661056?s=46&t=JqZDbKABYXg4uCmV-rI_Og

    So the Londoners inside the Supreme Court won't back it?

    I would have said that was bad news for the SNP, but then it's the National. Never knowingly published anything coherent.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,922
    Scott_xP said:

    “Something will need to happen as we can’t go on like this for over 2 years”, one level-headed Tory MP tells me.

    Little over a month since Liz Truss became PM and already Conservative MPs are seriously suggesting she may have to go. What a turn of events.


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1580289006905937922

    And who do they think the members will elect in her place? Braverman? JRM?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tory & Truss backer tells me '22 was worst they'd witnessed for any PM

    "There's a lot of Qs about Kwasi. MPs think he is a busted flush already. Maybe Liz'll have to make changes

    "I feel embarrassed to have sold [the PM] as a safe pair of hands. I sold them a pup"


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1580276459154784256

    Her first public hustings session showed the real Liz Truss. The worst of the candidates offered up.

    Anybody who thinks that Liz Truss was a "safe pair of hands" should be seriously considering their career choice. Because we put the security of the nation's finances in people making that judgment call.

    Tory MPs. What a bunch of muppets.
    Yes… and the party members (or at least a large majority of them) make the MPs look like savants.
    57% versus 43% of us who saw through her..... Not a "large majority".
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,605
    Nightmare on Downing Street.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,922

    Scott_xP said:

    Extraordinary statement from a Conservative MP who attended the 1922:

    “After tonight most Tory MPs accept that our current leader, given the decisions she took with the Fiscal Statement, can never provide the reassurance needed to arrest the loss of market confidence…


    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1580280661944201222

    I wonder how may letters are in? It doesn't immediately matter if the 22 don't change the rules. But the 22 is a big part of the problem.

    Perhaps Conservative MPs need a new iteration of the 22?
    Definitely.

    The 22 is crippling the party.
    After the next GE there may not be 22 of them left.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Lots of briefings tonight from Tories despairing @ 1922. How's the still pro-Truss camp reacting? Gov source: "There’s not much you can do at this point you have to prove them wrong. If they’re not ballsy enough to put their name to it and will (brief) in a very bitchy way /1

    "anonymously, it’s pathetic really. They need to grow up. They don't have the balls to put their names on the record so shut up and go away in the words of Gavin Williamson who I'm sure is involved in some way." /2

    https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1580291565330698240
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,715
    Leon said:

    Londoners outside the Supreme Court back indyref2 over 'Westminster crooks' thenational.scot/news/23043552.…

    https://twitter.com/helen91155348/status/1580283753263661056?s=46&t=JqZDbKABYXg4uCmV-rI_Og

    A stunning intervention from The National, which will no doubt be enjoyed by its solitary remaining reader
    Quite a few PBTories and Unionists seem to subscribe to it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Taz said:

    I feel sorry for the ordinary Conservative MPs who have diligently represented their constituents over the last years, didn’t vote for Truss, but are going to lose their seats because their party has been taken over by extremists.
    Also, when you look at the demographics of the people voting for Truss, there is a case for the leadership vote being removed from members over state pension age.

    True. But did this same MPs care about the same thing happening to diligent local councillors when they were Losing their seats ? It’s only an issue when it affects them.
    I'm sure they do, many will have friends and allies amongst the councillors, but there's only so much they can do when people usually punish local councils during a government.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2022


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    Tory MPs shld never hv got rid of Boris Johnson if they weren't willing to back his successor to the hilt.

    They weren't expecting Continuity Boris to get to the last 2.
This discussion has been closed.