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The Cost of Lizzing Crisis [1] – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063
    Nigelb said:

    Parties are a feature of pretty well every democracy, and seem to be necessary to their organised functioning at the national level.
    I’m no fan of them, and instinctively shy away from attaching myself to one, but they are not a ‘perversion’, even if some of their manifestations can be.
    It's pretty obvious we need at least some way of loosely grouping interests together to establish some broad vision for a programme. It's just that we need the party machines to be much less powerful, and competitive electoral systems to prevent easy domination.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,294

    It took until about 2006 for average real wages in Russia to reach their 1990 level - and with a smaller population too.

    Except the 1) 1990 level was Soviet statistics and not accurate 2) in 1990 you could not buy very much anyway, because the choice of goods was minimal. Communism rationed goods by availability, not by price. So there is quite a bit of research that suggests that within 2-3 years actual living standards had improved sharply. That was my experience of that time too. it took quite a while for accurate statistics gathering to be set up, and much of the real economy raced ahead of the data gathering.

    Now Estonia has an average living standard that is pretty close to the UK, and a recorded GDP/cap in December ´21 at $38,207 that is very close indeed to the $45,839 of the UK. That could be lagging behind too.

  • Advent starts on the 27th of Nov. so I think it's admissable then.

    It does this year. That's the earliest it can start (because Christmas Day this year is on a Sunday). The latest it can start is 3rd December (in years when Christmas Day is a Monday).
  • "Childish nonsense" - do you consider Christmas to be childish nonsense?

    In case you missed it, most of that stuff I named (apart from the latte) is for my children. So excuse me if activities aimed for children are childish. I suppose Christmas Grottos are made up childish nonsense to you too? 🙄

    December being linked with Christmas, and October with Halloween, is not a novel or new concept. It just strikes me as odd that black history isn't linked to a month without a strong connection to something else already.
    It was a simple pisstake of you getting the hump about black history being in focus for a whole month. That month being October, so enough of the misdirection about Christmas, please.

    And yes, I love Halloween and Christmas. Our kids used to compete to build grottos on Christmas morning and I very much enjoyed the childish nonsense that it was.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,921

    I'm early Dec.
    Same here. Always glad to get the Xmas stuff out of the loft.

    I wouldn’t bother but my wife loves all that Kitsch stuff.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288

    That's an opinion that cannot possibly be validated, as you know. You would have to define what America's interests were, whether the interests of the State and its people were the same thing, then whether the current geostrategic posture/domestic policy of the State was aligned with those interests. It's all subjective.
    It is a democracy.
    Supporting a fascist dictator in abolishing through military force an independent democratic nation of 44m people is not in its interests. Attacking aid to Ukraine which has passed both Houses of Congress by very large, bipartisan majorities is certainly acting against national interests.

    There nothing subjective about that - they are opposing their own government and constitution.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Turkey again saying they will block Sweden’s NATO application.
  • We enjoy Halloween for the whole month. Halloween movies whenever we watch a movie all month long, there's so many good ones you couldn't do them all in a day, and all the shops have Halloween stuff all month etc too. Plus other activities, we're going pumpkin picking later this month on a farm, then will be pumpkin carving after. The kids do Halloween activities at school, at Rainbows and Brownies. Oh and Pumpkin Spice Latte etc too.

    Halloween is a month long for us, not a day, any more than Christmas is just 25 December.
    yes ,as a family we made a big thing of halloween as both myself and my daughter are on the gothic side - Autumn is our favourite season by far and thinking of the "dark" side of life in a fun and community way is good imo once in a while - It is more a spiritual thing for us and whilst we are not (or was - daughter is now a balanced adult!) the Adams Family we do feel it more of a deeper and soulful exercise than say Christmas which is pure materialism and too sentimental in a shallow way for my taste. I do like you make it last from the 1st October and do serious stuff mixed in with fun - It will cumulate in a fun halloween murder mystery this year at chez state go away where guests take on a role - Dracula ,Bride of Dracula,Frankinstein, Curella De Ville ,Morticia ,Gomez ,Wicked Witch , Poison Ivy etc and I serve a suitable meal and we wok out who "did it"
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,138
    A lot of the time, you get a read on how a party is feeling by what they *don't* do.

    MPs have been instructed by Downing St to share and champion graphics on the mini-budget, focussing on the energy price policy.

    How many have done that? Trouble.


    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1576200935579189249
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,138
    The lack of Treasury experience in the most senior positions is one notable element of the current situ.

    Perm sec: (empty)
    Second perm sec: (empty)
    Chancellor: 25 days
    Chief Sec: 25 days
    Finance Sec: 23 days

    So in five of the top Treasury jobs… **73 days** experience total.


    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1576190729918947328
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    Nigelb said:

    Parties are a feature of pretty well every democracy, and seem to be necessary to their organised functioning at the national level.
    I’m no fan of them, and instinctively shy away from attaching myself to one, but they are not a ‘perversion’, even if some of their manifestations can be.
    What about introducing the secret ballot? In Parliament…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867

    Turkey again saying they will block Sweden’s NATO application.

    He has actually said that he will not approve it until they have enacted all the conditions he agreed to.

    Which, since they are in the process of enacting most of them, including lifting their arms embargo as of last night, seems to be mostly posturing for his domestic audience.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,310
    F1: entertaining qualifying session.

    Relatively pleased with the 23 on Perez each way to win (mentioned some while ago).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,841
    Watching this continual series of CNN reporters standing in the sunshine talking about damage that took place days ago, while outside it is merely raining, is becoming tiresome. Let’s take the dog for a walk and see if I can find somewhere for a second breakfast…
  • Scott_xP said:

    The lack of Treasury experience in the most senior positions is one notable element of the current situ.

    Perm sec: (empty)
    Second perm sec: (empty)
    Chancellor: 25 days
    Chief Sec: 25 days
    Finance Sec: 23 days

    So in five of the top Treasury jobs… **73 days** experience total.


    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1576190729918947328

    Minimum requirement for cabinet level posts should be 3 years experience as either junior minister or select committee in relevant departments only. Stop plonking MPs who have no knowledge of an area into the most important roles in the country.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    It was a simple pisstake of you getting the hump about black history being in focus for a whole month. That month being October, so enough of the misdirection about Christmas, please.

    And yes, I love Halloween and Christmas. Our kids used to compete to build grottos on Christmas morning and I very much enjoyed the childish nonsense that it was.
    There some people on PB that would argue that up and down are the same thing, wet is the same as dry, and there is no difference between loud and quiet.

    You might want to keep that in mind because using reason and facts will not save you :wink:
  • Minimum requirement for cabinet level posts should be 3 years experience as either junior minister or select committee in relevant departments only. Stop plonking MPs who have no knowledge of an area into the most important roles in the country.
    Whilst that may help, I think relevant experience in the outside world would be more beneficial - ie the Chancellor being a former finance director/economist , Health minister being a medical professional etc -
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288

    What about introducing the secret ballot? In Parliament…
    Interesting idea, but how happy would constituents be about that ?
    I favour PR, since it would get rid of the two party lock on government. That’s certainly one of the thing which leads to rule by unrepresentative factions who temporarily seize hold of the party apparatus.
  • Turkey again saying they will block Sweden’s NATO application.

    Turkey are quite close to Russia nowadays - more so than Nato really - Turkey may do a Nexit in a few years imo
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867
    Genuine red letter day on power generation:

    67% of electricity is from wind or solar at this moment. Less than 10% from gas and only 1.5% from biomass.

    That's got to be a record, surely?

    And it helps that demand is sensationally low for some reason even though France is sucking in power like you can't believe it, but it's still good news.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867
    Scott_xP said:
    That last paragraph is, oddly, how teachers feel about the DfE.

    Except for 'government' substitute 'real life.'
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,310
    Anyway, I'm off but the pre-race ramble with the incredibly insightful tip that fails due to monumental bad luck will be posted tomorrow.
  • Whilst that may help, I think relevant experience in the outside world would be more beneficial - ie the Chancellor being a former finance director/economist , Health minister being a medical professional etc -
    Didnt Truss and Kwarteng both work in the city? Along with JRM and others in the cabinet. All still either mad or terribly informed.
  • ydoethur said:

    Genuine red letter day on power generation:

    67% of electricity is from wind or solar at this moment. Less than 10% from gas and only 1.5% from biomass.

    That's got to be a record, surely?

    And it helps that demand is sensationally low for some reason even though France is sucking in power like you can't believe it, but it's still good news.

    demand is low because people delaying putting on heating and government buildings tend to work on a rigid 1st oct to 31 March heating on cycle . It is probably the time of year therefore for peak renewable. No bad thing of course but lets not pretend gas is not needed in huge quantities for many years to come
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867

    Anyway, I'm off but the pre-race ramble with the incredibly insightful tip that fails due to monumental bad luck Ferrari's latest unbelievable cockup will be posted tomorrow.

    FTFY :smile:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    Cicero said:

    As indeed was reported several hours ago. Looks like the fall of Lyman was like the road to Basra. A complete disaster for Russia.
    Russia confirming they have withdrawn from Lyman.

    Maybe some inverted commas required there, Russia.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867

    demand is low because people delaying putting on heating and government buildings tend to work on a rigid 1st oct to 31 March heating on cycle . It is probably the time of year therefore for peak renewable. No bad thing of course but lets not pretend gas is not needed in huge quantities for many years to come
    This is electricity generation. Not gas heating. People's heating wouldn't be affecting it.

    (Anyway, it is October 1st. By your logic the heating should be spiking.)
  • Didnt Truss and Kwarteng both work in the city? Along with JRM and others in the cabinet. All still either mad or terribly informed.
    well quite - it does not necessarily mean competence but surely it helps
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867

    Minimum requirement for cabinet level posts should be 3 years experience as either junior minister or select committee in relevant departments only. Stop plonking MPs who have no knowledge of an area into the most important roles in the country.
    What about the Civil Service?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    Well the first of Putin’s new “possessions” is about to be taken away from him.
    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1576149053771063298
    Ukrainian troops enter Donetsk's Lyman as officials confirm liberation of five nearby settlements

    Liberation of Yampil, Novoselivka, Shandryholove, Drobysheve, Stavky is officially confirmed. Locals report Ukrainian troops in Lyman's northern end
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,138

    Didnt Truss and Kwarteng both work in the city? Along with JRM and others in the cabinet. All still either mad or terribly informed.

    ...
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Scott_xP said:
    I could give him some advice in just one paragraph.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,119
    ydoethur said:

    Genuine red letter day on power generation:

    67% of electricity is from wind or solar at this moment. Less than 10% from gas and only 1.5% from biomass.

    That's got to be a record, surely?

    And it helps that demand is sensationally low for some reason even though France is sucking in power like you can't believe it, but it's still good news.

    It'll be interesting if the wind lasts the day, we would have had more electricity over the day as a whole from nuclear than from gas. That can't happen very often.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    Ukrainian troops have entered the city of Lyman, Donetsk Oblast, confirmed the spokesman of the eastern grouping of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Serhiy Cherevatyi on the national telethon program.

    "We are already in Lyman, but there are still battles. Details will follow later."

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1576205473283735554
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,269

    "Childish nonsense" - do you consider Christmas to be childish nonsense?

    In case you missed it, most of that stuff I named (apart from the latte) is for my children. So excuse me if activities aimed for children are childish. I suppose Christmas Grottos are made up childish nonsense to you too? 🙄

    December being linked with Christmas, and October with Halloween, is not a novel or new concept. It just strikes me as odd that black history isn't linked to a month without a strong connection to something else already.
    I'm surprised at you endorsing Halloween, which surely nurtures a dependency culture. Is it any wonder that the British are as our prime minister puts it the laziest people in the world when they are taught from a young age that they just have to dress up as Harry Potter and people will hand them a bag of haribos?
  • Turkey are quite close to Russia nowadays - more so than Nato really - Turkey may do a Nexit in a few years imo
    Turkey has history with Sweden.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,269

    I could give him some advice in just one paragraph.
    Two words would do it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031

    I could give him some advice in just one paragraph.
    One word: resign.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,255
    Is there any chance of Tory members showing some sense and bottle and actually booing the twerps that will be speaking to them?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,119

    It'll be interesting if the wind lasts the day, we would have had more electricity over the day as a whole from nuclear than from gas. That can't happen very often.
    A reminder that the current record UK electricity from wind is 19.916 GW from May earlier this year. Would expect that to be broken a few times this winter.

    The 10 GW level was broken for the first time in January 2018. We've been continuously over that level for all of the last 24 hours.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    I could give him some advice in just one paragraph.
    A single word would suffice.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    glw said:

    Is there any chance of Tory members showing some sense and bottle and actually booing the twerps that will be speaking to them?

    Probably not. They only elected the chief twerp a short time ago, so I would not expect too much.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,680
    edited October 2022

    "Childish nonsense" - do you consider Christmas to be childish nonsense?

    In case you missed it, most of that stuff I named (apart from the latte) is for my children. So excuse me if activities aimed for children are childish. I suppose Christmas Grottos are made up childish nonsense to you too? 🙄

    December being linked with Christmas, and October with Halloween, is not a novel or new concept. It just strikes me as odd that black history isn't linked to a month without a strong connection to something else already.
    Much prefer the older ways; Halloween almost unnoticed and a triviality except a bit for the 6-11 year olds on 31st October; November the month of remembrance - All Saints, All Souls, Remembrance Sunday. Advent in December (good season for listening to Bach) getting ready for Christmas, which begins on Christmas Eve, ending on 6th January, extending to 2nd Feb if you have the mind to do so. The world is a bit against this but I do my best. The days after 25th December are best - time for people and visitors, and a bit of time off. Think about a tree about 21st December.

    Every month should be Black History month to make up for past distortions in the western imagination.

  • Tres said:

    Out of all the shitty things happening in the world, learning about black history doesn't come close to making my list of things to get upset about.
    Sad that you can't tell the difference between an observation and getting upset. But then all you are really seeking to do is create division so I understand your hyperbole.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288

    One word: resign.
    Resign now.
  • Nigelb said:

    Parties are a feature of pretty well every democracy, and seem to be necessary to their organised functioning at the national level.
    I’m no fan of them, and instinctively shy away from attaching myself to one, but they are not a ‘perversion’, even if some of their manifestations can be.
    The perversion is the way they control power through bribery and threat. I have no problems with partis per se. But they should not be allowed to pervert the democratic system by forcing MPs to vote against their own consciences or the best interests of their constituents. I admired Ken Clarke for his opposition to Brexit (even though I had less time for those who claimed they would support the result but then changed their tune after they were re-elected)

    Let the parties exist but remove their power to coerce rather than persuade MPs to support them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    ydoethur said:

    He has actually said that he will not approve it until they have enacted all the conditions he agreed to.

    Which, since they are in the process of enacting most of them, including lifting their arms embargo as of last night, seems to be mostly posturing for his domestic audience.
    It’s very elaborate street theatre - the Turks won’t actually get any Kurds extradited, and then know it, but they will get “concessions”. Which will make the voters in Turkey feel something has been done.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Breaking: Russia has been voted out of the ICAO council (at UN for aviation here in Montreal) following a democratic vote by member states — the first time in history that a country has been voted out of the premier category of the council. #ICAO….

    Now: Russia is *refusing* to recognise the results of the election, demanding a second vote.

    ICAO Execs and over 170 countries remain gathered in the UN assembly hall grappling with what to do next

    Majority of countries are highlighting the election was free, fair & final #ICAO


    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1576222097281810432
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,294
    Just a few funny straws in the wind. A friend has just returned from Spain. He says that tens of thousands of Russian young men have turned up. Meanwhile on this morning´s ferries to Helsinki a huge number of Russian young men "with a lot of luggage". I think the suggested 250,000 Young Russians leaving the country may be an underestimate. Of course that kind of destroys the Russian army, but the Russian economy is also being shattered here too.

    Then there is the "rally" in Red Square. even the hand picked were not exactly rising to the blood curdling cries from the assorted fascists on stage. Obviously we know that most Russians are quiescent towards the regime, but even still..

    The crushing defeat at Lyman is now likely to be followed by more of the same, to the point that the Russian army can no longer function.

    It feels like Russia has gone over the cliff, and some kind of breakdown is emerging as the most likely future. I do not know what happens next, but the outlook for the regime is darkening by the day.

    "'Stand, Men of the West! Stand and wait! This is the hour of doom".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    Russian sappers blew up a bridge on the only road out of Lyman too early - stopping their own convoy and exposing hundreds of Russia’s regular troops to a devastating ‘turkey shoot’ - a deliberate act to punish retreating survivors for disobeying Putin’s orders or a real mistake?
    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1576217831695216640
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    The polling response to this week’s mini-budget is bigger than the one after Black Wednesday.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    Cicero said:

    Just a few funny straws in the wind. A friend has just returned from Spain. He says that tens of thousands of Russian young men have turned up. Meanwhile on this morning´s ferries to Helsinki a huge number of Russian young men "with a lot of luggage". I think the suggested 250,000 Young Russians leaving the country may be an underestimate. Of course that kind of destroys the Russian army, but the Russian economy is also being shattered here too.

    Then there is the "rally" in Red Square. even the hand picked were not exactly rising to the blood curdling cries from the assorted fascists on stage. Obviously we know that most Russians are quiescent towards the regime, but even still..

    The crushing defeat at Lyman is now likely to be followed by more of the same, to the point that the Russian army can no longer function.

    It feels like Russia has gone over the cliff, and some kind of breakdown is emerging as the most likely future. I do not know what happens next, but the outlook for the regime is darkening by the day.

    "'Stand, Men of the West! Stand and wait! This is the hour of doom".

    “There rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent; for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell.”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    glw said:

    Is there any chance of Tory members showing some sense and bottle and actually booing the twerps that will be speaking to them?

    Interestingly Lord Heseltine will be attending his first Tory conference for many years. He will be speaking at a fringe event with David Gauke for the European Movement

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CjKrKpmKsQ7/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
  • glwglw Posts: 10,255

    Breaking: Russia has been voted out of the ICAO council (at UN for aviation here in Montreal) following a democratic vote by member states — the first time in history that a country has been voted out of the premier category of the council. #ICAO….

    Now: Russia is *refusing* to recognise the results of the election, demanding a second vote.

    ICAO Execs and over 170 countries remain gathered in the UN assembly hall grappling with what to do next

    Majority of countries are highlighting the election was free, fair & final #ICAO


    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1576222097281810432

    That's a good move. If we can't boot them out of the UN itself then removing them from subsidiary agencies instead will cause Russia some real trouble.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063

    Turkey again saying they will block Sweden’s NATO application.

    Sigh, what are they after this time?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Conference off to a great start as the hosting Tory Mayor puts down the Chairman of the Young Conservative Network for calling Birmingham a dump. He then deletes the tweet, pretends to have sent it because of a mugging attempt, but multiple tweets to the same effect resurface.

    https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1576196176679870464
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    kle4 said:

    Sigh, what are they after this time?
    It’s like the voting for the Oscars - probably a really bling watch?
  • glw said:

    Is there any chance of Tory members showing some sense and bottle and actually booing the twerps that will be speaking to them?

    More chance of seeing Vlad's apparatchicks giving him the bird.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,848
    philiph said:

    I don't think Covid or Ukrainian war were in the manifesto.
    Manifesto, from any party is a document of rubbish, you shoild never elect anyone who is so unimaginative that they think governing according to a givecyesr old plan is feasible or desireable.
    Should be called a Manfester
    I don't think Covid or Ukrainian war were in the manifesto.

    You clearly didn't listen to Putin's speech, then.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,921

    Conference off to a great start as the hosting Tory Mayor puts down the Chairman of the Young Conservative Network for calling Birmingham a dump. He then deletes the tweet, pretends to have sent it because of a mugging attempt, but multiple tweets to the same effect resurface.

    https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1576196176679870464

    If he thinks Birmingham is the worst city in the U.K. he’s never been to Sunderland.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    HYUFD said:

    Interestingly Lord Heseltine will be attending his first Tory conference for many years. He will be speaking at a fringe event with David Gauke for the European Movement

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CjKrKpmKsQ7/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
    That will have all the sane Tories attending. I presume they booked only a small room?
  • glw said:

    Is there any chance of Tory members showing some sense and bottle and actually booing the twerps that will be speaking to them?

    Good afternoon

    I expect there will a lot of members, supporters and even mps keeping miles away
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    Conference off to a great start as the hosting Tory Mayor puts down the Chairman of the Young Conservative Network for calling Birmingham a dump. He then deletes the tweet, pretends to have sent it because of a mugging attempt, but multiple tweets to the same effect resurface.

    https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1576196176679870464

    A bit harsh on Birmingham maybe but there is no doubt the majority of the Tory delegates would prefer the conference to be in Bournemouth or Harrogate
  • Cicero said:

    Just a few funny straws in the wind. A friend has just returned from Spain. He says that tens of thousands of Russian young men have turned up. Meanwhile on this morning´s ferries to Helsinki a huge number of Russian young men "with a lot of luggage". I think the suggested 250,000 Young Russians leaving the country may be an underestimate. Of course that kind of destroys the Russian army, but the Russian economy is also being shattered here too.

    Then there is the "rally" in Red Square. even the hand picked were not exactly rising to the blood curdling cries from the assorted fascists on stage. Obviously we know that most Russians are quiescent towards the regime, but even still..

    The crushing defeat at Lyman is now likely to be followed by more of the same, to the point that the Russian army can no longer function.

    It feels like Russia has gone over the cliff, and some kind of breakdown is emerging as the most likely future. I do not know what happens next, but the outlook for the regime is darkening by the day.

    "'Stand, Men of the West! Stand and wait! This is the hour of doom".

    Maybe also the ladies
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    Nigelb said:

    Russian sappers blew up a bridge on the only road out of Lyman too early - stopping their own convoy and exposing hundreds of Russia’s regular troops to a devastating ‘turkey shoot’ - a deliberate act to punish retreating survivors for disobeying Putin’s orders or a real mistake?
    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1576217831695216640

    Putin told his commanders to re-enact Stalingrad. So they did.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    edited October 2022

    Conference off to a great start as the hosting Tory Mayor puts down the Chairman of the Young Conservative Network for calling Birmingham a dump. He then deletes the tweet, pretends to have sent it because of a mugging attempt, but multiple tweets to the same effect resurface.

    https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1576196176679870464

    Maybe he was mugged several times?

    Time to make membership of the Conservative Party a notifiable condition.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    Breaking: Russia has been voted out of the ICAO council (at UN for aviation here in Montreal) following a democratic vote by member states — the first time in history that a country has been voted out of the premier category of the council. #ICAO….

    Now: Russia is *refusing* to recognise the results of the election, demanding a second vote.

    ICAO Execs and over 170 countries remain gathered in the UN assembly hall grappling with what to do next

    Majority of countries are highlighting the election was free, fair & final #ICAO


    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1576222097281810432

    What did they expect after the aircraft leasing debacle? I am only surprised it took this long.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063
    Scott_xP said:
    It isn't exactly uncommon for important and very busy people to seek to cut down the length of summaries they receive, concision is important (if not something I practice). But somethings really do take more than a paragraph, or even two gods forbid, to adequately explain things.

    An insistence that people cut down everything is as silly as what I hope is purely a TV trope where lawyers in court demand yes or no answers to questions, which would force people into giving misleading answers when the truth requires some nuance.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063

    Putin told his commanders to re-enact Stalingrad. So they did.
    Except that the Russians won Stalingrad. At terrible cost, but still.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    HYUFD said:

    A bit harsh on Birmingham maybe but there is no doubt the majority of the Tory delegates would prefer the conference to be in Bournemouth or Harrogate
    Do they want to win the next GE or not?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063
    glw said:

    That's a good move. If we can't boot them out of the UN itself then removing them from subsidiary agencies instead will cause Russia some real trouble.
    I look forward to Russia's usual 'How dare anyone actually respond to what we are doing? This is an outrage!" reaction.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    kle4 said:

    It isn't exactly uncommon for important and very busy people to seek to cut down the length of summaries they receive, concision is important (if not something I practice). But somethings really do take more than a paragraph, or even two gods forbid, to adequately explain things.

    An insistence that people cut down everything is as silly as what I hope is purely a TV trope where lawyers in court demand yes or no answers to questions, which would force people into giving misleading answers when the truth requires some nuance.
    "I must insist that you only answer 'yes' or 'no' to the questions I pose, or you may be held in contempt of court. Do you understand?"

    --- "Yes"

    "Good. What is your name?"

    --- "Um. No?"
  • HYUFD said:

    A bit harsh on Birmingham maybe but there is no doubt the majority of the Tory delegates would prefer the conference to be in Bournemouth or Harrogate
    Then that says it all and they deserve to be out of office for decades

    This is not the conservative party I have supported since I was 18 (60 years ago) and I am very near to ticking Starmers box, just as I did for Blair, though Starmer is no Blair but he understands fairness

    It will take the conservative party to come to its senses and appoint Sunak in place of the dreadful Truss and even worse Kwarteng for me to even consider supporting them
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    HYUFD said:

    A bit harsh on Birmingham maybe but there is no doubt the majority of the Tory delegates would prefer the conference to be in Bournemouth or Harrogate
    Eastbourne would have been a better choice - unlimited Zimmerframe parking....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,709
    HYUFD said:

    A bit harsh on Birmingham maybe but there is no doubt the majority of the Tory delegates would prefer the conference to be in Bournemouth or Harrogate
    As an aside I bet Street is in a foul mood, seeing as HS2 is about to be cancelled any day now, undoing his years and years of patient hard work on the project.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited October 2022

    Conference off to a great start as the hosting Tory Mayor puts down the Chairman of the Young Conservative Network for calling Birmingham a dump. He then deletes the tweet, pretends to have sent it because of a mugging attempt, but multiple tweets to the same effect resurface.

    https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1576196176679870464

    Haw! Edit: but tbf it was Master YC not Mr Street who was fibbing about mugging ...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Eastbourne would have been a better choice - unlimited Zimmerframe parking....
    As the old road signpost goes “Dover for the Continent, Eastbourne for the incontinent”
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,709
    Cicero said:

    Just a few funny straws in the wind. A friend has just returned from Spain. He says that tens of thousands of Russian young men have turned up. Meanwhile on this morning´s ferries to Helsinki a huge number of Russian young men "with a lot of luggage". I think the suggested 250,000 Young Russians leaving the country may be an underestimate. Of course that kind of destroys the Russian army, but the Russian economy is also being shattered here too.

    Then there is the "rally" in Red Square. even the hand picked were not exactly rising to the blood curdling cries from the assorted fascists on stage. Obviously we know that most Russians are quiescent towards the regime, but even still..

    The crushing defeat at Lyman is now likely to be followed by more of the same, to the point that the Russian army can no longer function.

    It feels like Russia has gone over the cliff, and some kind of breakdown is emerging as the most likely future. I do not know what happens next, but the outlook for the regime is darkening by the day.

    "'Stand, Men of the West! Stand and wait! This is the hour of doom".

    How do 10Ks of russian men get a visa to head to spain?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    As an aside I bet Street is in a foul mood, seeing as HS2 is about to be cancelled any day now, undoing his years and years of patient hard work on the project.
    Well they can hardly cancel the route to Birmingham - it's already being built....

    And it will demonstrate that the Tories don't care about anything beyond London so that's going to cost them some Northern seats...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Is it just me or does it seem the Tory party is basically having a collective breakdown whilst still nominally in office?
    It's not just because Master Grainger of the YCs thinks Brum is allegedly a dump (tho' he should have seen it in the 1970s) - it gets worse.

    https://twitter.com/BiliDowcr/status/1576196662334091265
  • HYUFD said:

    A bit harsh on Birmingham maybe but there is no doubt the majority of the Tory delegates would prefer the conference to be in Bournemouth or Harrogate
    Good job these snobs didnt campaign on an agenda of levelling up.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063

    Minimum requirement for cabinet level posts should be 3 years experience as either junior minister or select committee in relevant departments only. Stop plonking MPs who have no knowledge of an area into the most important roles in the country.
    My problem with this is the typical issue of oppositions coming in, as shadow ministerial expereince is no substitute for the real thing either.

    But the experience point was very noticable.



    I noticed a week or so ago Donelan fibbing about having been in the Cabinet before being made Education Secretary for 2 days, when she was just an 'attends Cabinet'. Whilst Chief Secretary of the Treasury seems to go back and forth on its formal status, by and large if you don't have a department it's not the same thing at all.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,709
    Nigelb said:

    Resign now.
    I prefer John Farrow's way of dealing with these kinds of people.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    kle4 said:

    Except that the Russians won Stalingrad. At terrible cost, but still.
    They are re-enacting Stalingrad. Just that Putin and Co are playing the Germans. Details, details.

    Given the chaotic supply chains and the terrible equipment provided by the Russian army and the oncoming winter, it looks like the Russians will be the ones campaigning in their summer uniforms, in the mud. The Ukrainians are just taking delivery of state of the art winter clothing from Finland….
  • HYUFD said:

    Interestingly Lord Heseltine will be attending his first Tory conference for many years. He will be speaking at a fringe event with David Gauke for the European Movement

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CjKrKpmKsQ7/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
    Have they let him back in?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867

    It’s very elaborate street theatre - the Turks won’t actually get any Kurds extradited, and then know it, but they will get “concessions”. Which will make the voters in Turkey feel something has been done.
    Which is why nobody has been expecting Turkey to ratify Sweden and Finland's NATO membership before next June. When there are elections in Turkey.

    Erdogan has already agreed in principle to let them in and I doubt if he will in practice stop them. But he needs the sabre to rattle for a few months more.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    I see Russia is now retreating from a logistics hub in "Russian territory" in a war it started on its neighbour. What a joke of a country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    Good job these snobs didnt campaign on an agenda of levelling up.....
    Well Truss has clearly abandoned levelling up anyway now in favour of boosting the City of London more (at least in theory)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    There is a large fire reportedly coming from the Belbek airfield in Crimea home to Russia’s 27th Composite Aviation Division.
    https://t.me/chp_crimea/12192


    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1576227894053208065
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,202

    How do 10Ks of russian men get a visa to head to spain?
    It's quite common for people to have multi-year multiple entry Schengen visas.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867

    Putin told his commanders to re-enact Stalingrad. So they did.
    They should tell him they want to do Operation Uranus.

    This one involving bayonets not tanks...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    kle4 said:

    I look forward to Russia's usual 'How dare anyone actually respond to what we are doing? This is an outrage!" reaction.
    The ICAO say that 158% of their members voted to expel Russia.

    But they won’t, sadly
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    The polling response to this week’s mini-budget is bigger than the one after Black Wednesday.

    Black Wednesday was someone profiteering from the UK being in an impossible situation (it's more than that but it's Soros is the go to poster child for that day).

    Last week was completely self inflicted and the only names and faces involved are Truss and Kwasi...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867
    edited October 2022
    eek said:

    Well they can hardly cancel the route to Birmingham - it's already being built....

    And it will demonstrate that the Tories don't care about anything beyond London so that's going to cost them some Northern seats...
    So is the route to Crewe. They may do an HS2 East on the route from Crewe to Manchester but I would say the rest has gone too far to stop.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    Then that says it all and they deserve to be out of office for decades

    This is not the conservative party I have supported since I was 18 (60 years ago) and I am very near to ticking Starmers box, just as I did for Blair, though Starmer is no Blair but he understands fairness

    It will take the conservative party to come to its senses and appoint Sunak in place of the dreadful Truss and even worse Kwarteng for me to even consider supporting them
    I am afraid it is, if you asked the average Tory conference attendee in the Thatcher years or the Major years or the Hague or Cameron years if they would have preferred the main party conference to be in Bournemouth or Birmingham they would have gone for Bournemouth everytime (with Harrogate for the spring conference)
This discussion has been closed.