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The Cost of Lizzing Crisis [1] – politicalbetting.com

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    darkage said:

    Waking up this morning to Truss and Kwarteng both interviewed in Tory newspapers. "I had no other choice" and "this will be disruptive and unpopular".

    Part of the reason it is so unpopular is this: where is their democratic mandate? Nobody voted for this.

    I have answered on here repeatedly that people do not vote for a Prime Minister or a manifesto or a party - legally that isn't how our system works. Whilst that is true, as *people* continue to believe they vote for those things a party in government can't do a Voyager 1 flick and say "we have a majority". You do, but not for this.

    How do they imagine it will end? Simon Clarke yesterday said the welfare state was too big. He is Levelling Up Secretary and represents Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland. He proposes not just to scrap the levelling up they are waiting for, but to bonfire their mortgages, their pensions, their welfare payments and their services. Vote Conservative? They will destroy him!

    This feels like an academic exercise in my politics A-level classes. A mad one. When my lecturers had got drunk the night before and decided "screw it, lets set them a bonkers task". Except it is real. And the consequences on people's lives are real. And the electoral armageddon will be real.

    There is no explanation for the 'we had to do it' argument. It is a completely pathetic defence.
    It is now firmly set in peoples minds that that the chaos was caused by their idea to borrow money to give a tax cut to the very richest.
    The labour party just need to keep repeating this and they have the possibility of destroying the conservative party forever. This would be a tragedy but clearly they deserve it after electing Truss to the leadership and purging all the sane elements. They just aren't a party of government.
    Don't forget that the government has barely begun:
    PHASE 1: Announce tax cuts for the rich paid for by borrowing
    PHASE 2: Market crisis creates genuine money problems for HMG
    PHASE 3: Announce an axing of the welfare state

    Unless you are Crispin Odey, this government will fuck you.
    Mortgage? Fucked.
    Rent your home? Fucked.
    Low paid? Fucked.
    Rely on public services? Fucked.
    Kids in state education? Fucked
    Not got private health insurance? Fucked

    At Conference 2023 - if they survive that long - they will announce the new special electoral districts which the UK will now be grouped into. And to force the uppity populace back into line, a series of games will be announced where each district has to send tributes to the capital to fight for their rights to have access to heating that winter.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    kle4 said:

    Did she move so fast as she wanted to get praised at conference or something? People were pushing on the energy stuff but the other stuff could wait

    Why wait?

    You've got the keys to the Ferrari

    Do you nip to the shops at 30, or do you find the nearest stretch of A road and floor it?
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,378
    DougSeal said:

    Ian McGilchrist argues in The Matter with Things that Zeno, of paradox fame, created his enigmas to show that the more you treat reality analytically, the more lose touch with it. That is exactly what the PM and CX are doing. They’ve analysed their “problem” for so long they’ve become blinded by the analysis and lost touch with what the problem actually is. Happens a lot with superficially intelligent people, they can, like Zeno’s paradoxes, superficially argue, with amazing internal logic, facts that have no bearing whatsoever on the outside world.

    That can be true, but don't think it's what's going on here as gives far too much credit. Rather you have a group of people who imbibed the themes and general principles of Thatcherism and Reaganism growing up, but not either's practical application, and have long been fixated on having their big moment to emulate their heroes - not realising that they're trying to push people to inject well over a safe dose. People who've spent most of their career in think tanks or around SW1 telling each other how clever they are, basically getting paid to redo university, but with their essays and ideas appearing in polemical pamphlets. But who have no clue about those ideas when come into contact with people and reality.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Where did you watch it? Is it available for streaming somewhere or did you buy a DVD? I'd quite like to watch it to get some tips.
    Threads: https://click.justwatch.com/a?r=https://justwatch.com/uk/movie/threads?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android

    Justwatch is quite useful. It seems to be on Britbox.
    Thanks. Will have to get Britbox then.
    I think they do a free trial for 7 days.

    I saw it when it was first on.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    I’ve been thinking a lot about Haidt’s excellent book ‘The Righteous Mind’ in the past few days: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Righteous_Mind

    TLDR; the things you think are beyond the pale morally, are to another person the only moral answer.

    The usual conclusion from the book is that we should be more understanding of others’ political positions - more often than we think our opponents genuinely believe in the moral purpose of what they are doing.

    In the case of the extremists in government, I feel there is also another conclusion to draw. If you are weird enough, you can find almost any outcome the ‘moral’ one (cf gulags under communism). So one should be deeply suspicious of one’s own moral certainties.

    Given what others have posted about Truss in the last few hours, I’m not sure she will be open to that conclusion though.

    I've not read it (although will now add it to the pile), but I did write this a few months ago on Facebook:


    The sentiment is noble, but it's unintentionally funny in one particular way: saying "we all" when you are only talking about a subset of people.
    Trust me when I say that you can walk from one end of my constituency to the other and not run into a Lib Dem voter. My folks are all Labour but I've never voted for them. Everyone else seems to be Conservative or SNP. I'm surrounded by people who have pretty fixed opinions one was or the other about independence but I'm open to either option.

    Not all of us are in a political echo chamber. I'm sure there are quite a few of us on here who recognise the feeling of being a lone voice of sanity among others who just don't get it, and who fear that others regard us as a lone voice of insanity because our ideas don't fit.

    Bubbles are real, but the idea that everyone is in one is just your bubble talking.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,987
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Where is the electoral mandate for this low tax and smaller state economy . Truss and Kwarteng are determined to change the UKs economic model with absolutely no democratic consent .

    Nonsense.
    She won't have a majority in the Commons for this stuff when it gets back. Forced U-turn incoming, but not until Truss gets to say Thatchers famous line to conference first.
    She's not turning, just refining her plans no doubt.
    Famously the Conservatives have never rowed in behind a leader that did a massive u-turn before making themselves look complete plonkers in the meantime.
    Didn't happen once in the last 3 years.
    This is why I'm betting on her being in post till the next GE (And then being roundly thrashed)
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,219
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    Radio Times magazine - Picking Up The Threads cover (22-28 September 1984)
    Good unread condition - light yellowing to pages due to age

    North 2 edition

    TERRY WOGAN - 2 pages

    CHAMPIONSHIP DARTS - Can anyone stop Eric Bristow from taking his second British professional title?
    1 page feature

    THREADS - Sunday's drama-documentary tries to imagine the unthinkable - the aftermath of a nuclear attack on Sheffield
    2 page TV feature
    (further feature below)

    ON THE 8TH DAY - Monday's documentary looks at the research and what would happen to our planet after a nuclear war
    1 page

    SAM MAYO - We enthuse about this remarkable performer
    1 page


  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    The government is exhibiting fiscal discipline in the same way that Flaminius showed emotional control as he chased Hannibal to Lake Trasimene.

    We still have Cannae to come then
    Great.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    kle4 said:

    I wonder if they'll go ridiculous and claim they are not backing down even when they are, or go super prissy and moan that the bad media not getting has ruined their chance to give money back to rich people I mean help people.

    Assuming they do completely crash and burn, it will be the fault of Remainer civil servants, left wing markets and ill-informed press.

    Their sacred project will live on, never having been "tried properly"
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Where did you watch it? Is it available for streaming somewhere or did you buy a DVD? I'd quite like to watch it to get some tips.
    *Whistles an old-timey sea shanty*
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How do they imagine it will end?

    They imagine it will end in victory, crowds cheering and triumphant parades...

    As deluded as Putin.
    We're about to have a winter of pain, and probably an actual crisis rather than the annual reports that there will be a crisis.

    When that happens I suspect the public punish those in power even if things later pick up. They remember the chaos and pain.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,798
    I was just thinking about how things may evolve.
    The tories seem hell bent on doubling down.
    The possible outcome seems to be to shore up their base of wealthy southern and rural constituencies. (although even if this is the case, they are going in to an unwise battle with them over planning reform - which makes you wonder, is there any political strategy at all?).
    But I wondered... looking at the regional polling that came out yesterday, what is the likelihood of an 'independent group' of red wall tory MPs forming?
    Could this be the end game for the current 'growth plans'?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,904
    edited October 2022
    Threads, they never made a sequel. Apparently Disney have bought the rights and are making a franchise serial.

    If you like 1980s nuclear stuff, this QED documentary is excellent. It’s by the same people.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GJttnC8PoA
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474
    edited October 2022
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    ...
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    A meltdown in UK assets during Liz Truss’s first month as prime minister has left the sterling corporate bond market notching up its worst monthly return ever https://trib.al/TlGtOS0
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    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    Scott_xP said:

    Jonathan said:

    maxh said:

    nico679 said:

    Where is the electoral mandate for this low tax and smaller state economy . Truss and Kwarteng are determined to change the UKs economic model with absolutely no democratic consent .

    Nonsense.
    Care to elaborate? Genuinely interested

    Democratic consent was given at the GE.
    Truss and Kwarteng claim that this a new era. It does not add up.
    No sense whatever of an imminent U-turn in Downing Street on Budget. One source says: 'We've got an 80-seat majority and we've done nothing with it. We have an opportunity now to push through reforms to things that have been holding Britain back for years. If not now, when?'
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1575866749106327552
    Right after the worst of Covid was the time, if they wanted to use that big majority. But they acted like a small majority government afraid of every little thing.

    Now they left it so late they lacked the political capital for it, the arrogant disregard for anyone not rich bleeds through it all, and, the real killer, if they wanted to do it they should have planned it properly.

    As it is they've clearly had no clue it would be Ill recieved and have had very little response to criticisms other than to say they 'believe' in it.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Trouble is, some people quite like that sort of thing. Danger of confusion.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,904
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Where the Wind Blows. Don’t read or watch that. We had that had school.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    I think the argument here is that we've all been living it up at the expense of the richest people in society and now it's time for that to end. https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1576115785197445120/photo/1
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    ...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    Did she move so fast as she wanted to get praised at conference or something? People were pushing on the energy stuff but the other stuff could wait

    Why wait?

    You've got the keys to the Ferrari

    Do you nip to the shops at 30, or do you find the nearest stretch of A road and floor it?
    I wait until I'm out of the showroom at least.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,419

    Good morning, everyone.

    Whatever else one thinks of her, Truss must be the most successful Lib Dem sleeper agent in history.

    Given Labour’s ratings the risk now is that she will overshoot and create another 1997.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Where the Wind Blows. Don’t read or watch that. We had that had school.
    It's actually quite a surprise to find how many people on PB have not watched the key triad (to use an appropriate term) of films. Maybe it's a generation thing.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,219
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Reece Dinsdale went on to star in “Home to Roost” with John Thaw. A marked change in tone, but at least he wasn’t typecast.
  • Options

    Mr. Divvie, would you give the constituent parts of the UK a veto on matters like that in a referendum?

    I'm not sure that's right. A British vote should weigh equally. It'd be slightly bonkers if everywhere except Wales wanted to rejoin the EU and the Welsh vote stopped us doing so.

    There are positions between giving an outright veto and zero consultation with or acknowledgment of the attitudes of a member nation of a union. NI is an example of in between, Scotland of shut your faces and get with our programme.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Time to get out my mostly eighties War and Peace Spotify playlist from February to cheer you up:

    https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4LybGX1d2YvaFIHB3VAxXx?si=QpO6oBD0RMqZZjboUqWyZQ&utm_source=copy-link
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,135
    kle4 said:

    The government is exhibiting fiscal discipline in the same way that Flaminius showed emotional control as he chased Hannibal to Lake Trasimene.

    We still have Cannae to come then
    Great.
    Cannae wait.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    darkage said:

    I was just thinking about how things may evolve.
    The tories seem hell bent on doubling down.
    The possible outcome seems to be to shore up their base of wealthy southern and rural constituencies. (although even if this is the case, they are going in to an unwise battle with them over planning reform - which makes you wonder, is there any political strategy at all?).
    But I wondered... looking at the regional polling that came out yesterday, what is the likelihood of an 'independent group' of red wall tory MPs forming?
    Could this be the end game for the current 'growth plans'?

    Planning reform will be dropped, never you doubt. Piss of the shires when popularity has plummeted? Not a chance.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    I wonder if they'll go ridiculous and claim they are not backing down even when they are, or go super prissy and moan that the bad media not getting has ruined their chance to give money back to rich people I mean help people.

    Assuming they do completely crash and burn, it will be the fault of Remainer civil servants, left wing markets and ill-informed press.

    Their sacred project will live on, never having been "tried properly"
    Anti semite remainer civil servants I think is the Truss approved descriptor
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Where the Wind Blows. Don’t read or watch that. We had that had school.
    I’ve seen that. Very fine

    But not in the same league as THREADS. None of them are. Not The Day After, not War Game

    Threads strikes me as one of those perfect low budget British movies where everything miraculously comes together - theme, actors, location, script, research, ideas - and you get a masterpiece that grows in reputation over time

    Withnail and Wickerman seem apt comparisons

    Threads has gone straight into my top ten movies ever. At my advanced age, that seldom happens
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,337
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That's nuts.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    Simon Clarke is flagging return to austerity in @thetimes interview. But where’s the mandate?

    Boris Johnson pledged govt would "not go back to the austerity of 10 years ago" in June 2020.

    Truss said in July 2022: “I’m very clear I’m not planning public spending reductions”.


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1576120213069656065/photo/1
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That's nuts.
    The meat and two veg of current politics.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800
    kle4 said:

    darkage said:

    I was just thinking about how things may evolve.
    The tories seem hell bent on doubling down.
    The possible outcome seems to be to shore up their base of wealthy southern and rural constituencies. (although even if this is the case, they are going in to an unwise battle with them over planning reform - which makes you wonder, is there any political strategy at all?).
    But I wondered... looking at the regional polling that came out yesterday, what is the likelihood of an 'independent group' of red wall tory MPs forming?
    Could this be the end game for the current 'growth plans'?

    Planning reform will be dropped, never you doubt. Piss of the shires when popularity has plummeted? Not a chance.
    With Truss? Every chance!
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    “The more the bourses convulse, the surer the government will be that it is on to something”
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1576121380109967361
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,904
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Where the Wind Blows. Don’t read or watch that. We had that had school.
    I’ve seen that. Very fine

    But not in the same league as THREADS. None of them are. Not The Day After, not War Game

    Threads strikes me as one of those perfect low budget British movies where everything miraculously comes together - theme, actors, location, script, research, ideas - and you get a masterpiece that grows in reputation over time

    Withnail and Wickerman seem apt comparisons

    Threads has gone straight into my top ten movies ever. At my advanced age, that seldom happens
    Watch the documentary posted up thread. It’s the precursor to Threads. Some sardonic wit.

    Threads is important. Only the BBC could have done that.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,670
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Go with "A Serbian Film" for tonight's viewing material.
    Ewwww I could have done without that. Congrats on making a mark even by your standards with your 10,000th post.

    And just to make you bang your head against the wall I'm off to the 50th anniversary of Panther cars today. Still might buy one. Missed 2 so far by quicker buyers. Not a Lima though. Going a bit more upmarket.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    Did she move so fast as she wanted to get praised at conference or something? People were pushing on the energy stuff but the other stuff could wait

    Why wait?

    You've got the keys to the Ferrari

    Do you nip to the shops at 30, or do you find the nearest stretch of A road and floor it?
    I wait until I'm out of the showroom at least.
    There was no showroom. She found the car idling on the side of the road with the door open and the previous driver slumped in a ditch with an empty bottle of champagne in his fat little hand.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    A good header which reads more like a call for revolution than for a leisurely two year wait for a change of government.

    But why not? There certainly seems to be plenty of anger around at the moment
  • Options

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Where did you watch it? Is it available for streaming somewhere or did you buy a DVD? I'd quite like to watch it to get some tips.
    The only real tip is to stock up on some opiates or such like to ease you painlessly from this world if you’re unfortunate enough to survive the bombs.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Simon Clarke is flagging return to austerity in @thetimes interview. But where’s the mandate?

    Boris Johnson pledged govt would "not go back to the austerity of 10 years ago" in June 2020.

    Truss said in July 2022: “I’m very clear I’m not planning public spending reductions”.


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1576120213069656065/photo/1

    Of course she wasn't planning spending cuts. She's a libertarian; government planning is bad. Departments will have to spontaneously self-oganise in response to the invisible iron fist (velvet gloves sold off to raise money).
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    She said it more than once
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,474

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Where did you watch it? Is it available for streaming somewhere or did you buy a DVD? I'd quite like to watch it to get some tips.
    The only real tip is to stock up on some opiates or such like to ease you painlessly from this world if you’re unfortunate enough to survive the bombs.
    The tip is to drive TO the centre of the nearest blast and be vapourised painlessly in a second

    You don’t want to be in the second and third tiers of lifelong suffering
  • Options
    ..
    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Go with "A Serbian Film" for tonight's viewing material.
    Ewwww I could have done without that. Congrats on making a mark even by your standards with your 10,000th post.

    And just to make you bang your head against the wall I'm off to the 50th anniversary of Panther cars today. Still might buy one. Missed 2 so far by quicker buyers. Not a Lima though. Going a bit more upmarket.
    Go for it!


  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,086
    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893

    ..

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Go with "A Serbian Film" for tonight's viewing material.
    Ewwww I could have done without that. Congrats on making a mark even by your standards with your 10,000th post.

    And just to make you bang your head against the wall I'm off to the 50th anniversary of Panther cars today. Still might buy one. Missed 2 so far by quicker buyers. Not a Lima though. Going a bit more upmarket.
    Go for it!


    What the hell is that? Looks like FAB 1 for sunny days.
  • Options
    A few comments wrapping up some of the topics.

    1. Economically, the post from @williamglenn quoting the Fox Business tweet suggesting the Fed is concerned about systemic risk from rising interest rates is the key economic issue. It suggests the Fed is going to scale back on interest rate increases and may even reverse some.

    I've always taken the view the Fed's moves are essentially political to show US voters they are doing something on inflation (even though raising interest rates does little to cool a lot of the underlying causes). Given the midterms are next month, we may see a reverse ferret from the Fed using the excuse of market turmoil as a reason to change course.

    2. Re nukes in Ukraine, bear in mind the last thing China wants is Russia using nukes as that will automatically make China's strategic positioning far worse as Japan at least and possibly S Korea and Taiwan go for nukes. This Xi will do everything to stop Putin using such weapons
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited October 2022
    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    Global warning? A lottery that will produce many refugees and civil disorder. It could affect you profoundly
    Nuclear war? It probably won't happen.
    A large asteroid? We have no chance without decades of warning
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Simon Clarke is flagging return to austerity in @thetimes interview. But where’s the mandate?

    Boris Johnson pledged govt would "not go back to the austerity of 10 years ago" in June 2020.

    Truss said in July 2022: “I’m very clear I’m not planning public spending reductions”.


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1576120213069656065/photo/1

    The mandate is We Are Masters Of The Universe.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893

    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
    Oh? You wanted to become a lawyer that early?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Where did you watch it? Is it available for streaming somewhere or did you buy a DVD? I'd quite like to watch it to get some tips.
    The only real tip is to stock up on some opiates or such like to ease you painlessly from this world if you’re unfortunate enough to survive the bombs.
    The tip is to drive TO the centre of the nearest blast and be vapourised painlessly in a second
    Damn, I was hoping it was like a homeopathic thing where you want the poison as it will somehow help even if it seems stupid. I call it the Truss approach.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,670
    edited October 2022

    ..

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Go with "A Serbian Film" for tonight's viewing material.
    Ewwww I could have done without that. Congrats on making a mark even by your standards with your 10,000th post.

    And just to make you bang your head against the wall I'm off to the 50th anniversary of Panther cars today. Still might buy one. Missed 2 so far by quicker buyers. Not a Lima though. Going a bit more upmarket.
    Go for it!


    Not that one nor the ghastly Rolls Royce clone.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    Dianne Abbott didn't get any grace for a "slip of the tongue", so neither does Liz Truss. Liz Truss is a moron who doesn't know what she's doing.
    Fair point. My question is this - do you think Truss thinks the bills are capped at £2500? I don’t, but sadly the way the cap has been reported has confused a lot of people.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,670
    Carnyx said:

    ..

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Go with "A Serbian Film" for tonight's viewing material.
    Ewwww I could have done without that. Congrats on making a mark even by your standards with your 10,000th post.

    And just to make you bang your head against the wall I'm off to the 50th anniversary of Panther cars today. Still might buy one. Missed 2 so far by quicker buyers. Not a Lima though. Going a bit more upmarket.
    Go for it!


    What the hell is that? Looks like FAB 1 for sunny days.
    Panther made some, how can I put it, interesting cars.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    Dianne Abbott didn't get any grace for a "slip of the tongue", so neither does Liz Truss. Liz Truss is a moron who doesn't know what she's doing.
    Quite. You front a policy, and if people follow your words, they can't be blamed if you screw up - especially if it is *already* a known common misunderstanding. IIRC Which, Moneysavingexpert, etc. have all been warning about the confusion caused by the "cap" term. And Ms Truss has doubled down on this confusion.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,086
    Farooq said:

    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
    Why would a t-rex watch Jurassic Park?
    Post-dinner activity?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    Farooq said:

    Why would a t-rex watch Jurassic Park?

    Why does anyone watch their home videos?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    Farooq said:

    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
    Why would a t-rex watch Jurassic Park?
    In the hope of dinosex scenes?
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    ..

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Go with "A Serbian Film" for tonight's viewing material.
    Ewwww I could have done without that. Congrats on making a mark even by your standards with your 10,000th post.

    And just to make you bang your head against the wall I'm off to the 50th anniversary of Panther cars today. Still might buy one. Missed 2 so far by quicker buyers. Not a Lima though. Going a bit more upmarket.
    Go for it!


    What the hell is that? Looks like FAB 1 for sunny days.
    A Panther 6 apparently.


  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    Analysis via ⁦@joepike⁩ on eve of Tory conference: “The PM already cuts a diminished figure after squandering much of her political capital - damaging her party's reputation for economic management and demoralising many of her MPs”
    https://news.sky.com/story/as-tory-conference-looms-the-pm-cuts-a-diminished-figure-after-squandering-much-of-her-political-capital-12708836
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Scott_xP said:

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    She said it more than once
    Yup, multiple times. A clear lie. I don't know why anybody would try to defend it.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,028
    Carnyx said:

    ..

    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Go with "A Serbian Film" for tonight's viewing material.
    Ewwww I could have done without that. Congrats on making a mark even by your standards with your 10,000th post.

    And just to make you bang your head against the wall I'm off to the 50th anniversary of Panther cars today. Still might buy one. Missed 2 so far by quicker buyers. Not a Lima though. Going a bit more upmarket.
    Go for it!


    What the hell is that? Looks like FAB 1 for sunny days.
    Panther Six. At that point you might as well say, Fuck It, and get a Wolfrace Sonic.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    Tax cuts for the rich paid for by your children’s education.

    That’s quite a look the Tories are going for.

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/school-budget-cuts-follow-national-insurance-change/
  • Options
    What is the largest actual majority we think Labour could achieve?
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Where the Wind Blows. Don’t read or watch that. We had that had school.
    It's actually quite a surprise to find how many people on PB have not watched the key triad (to use an appropriate term) of films. Maybe it's a generation thing.
    I picked up Where The Wind Blows in the library when I was about 10 years old - cartoons, same size as an Asterix or Tintin book, I thought it was a kids book. It isn’t.

    A hugely powerful book for me. To have stayed with me so vividly is a mark of its impact on my young mind.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,800

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    It wasn't a slip of the tongue, she repeated it several times on the BBC local radio interviews. She genuinely got it wrong.

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    Dianne Abbott didn't get any grace for a "slip of the tongue", so neither does Liz Truss. Liz Truss is a moron who doesn't know what she's doing.
    Fair point. My question is this - do you think Truss thinks the bills are capped at £2500? I don’t, but sadly the way the cap has been reported has confused a lot of people.
    Liz Truss has clearly been exploiting the fact that there is poor public understanding of things like caps and averages to get through difficult interviews by repeatedly dropping the same comforting lie. It's deliberate and dishonest and you know it.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047
    Reflecting on the mornings comments I was struck by the thought that LT is only in power because of her predecessors dishonesty and perceived incompetence. Not because of his policies.

    She has no mandate to change policy dramatically.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Simon Clarke is flagging return to austerity in @thetimes interview. But where’s the mandate?

    Boris Johnson pledged govt would "not go back to the austerity of 10 years ago" in June 2020.

    Truss said in July 2022: “I’m very clear I’m not planning public spending reductions”.


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1576120213069656065/photo/1

    It’s almost as if the Tories are a bunch of lying bastards. Who knew?
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,802
    Farooq said:

    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
    Why would a t-rex watch Jurassic Park?
    A T. rex would be horrified at Jurassic Park showing its peers without their usual feathery covering.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    Those Truss and Kwarteng pieces will convince no one. There's no comms solution here because it's not a comms problem. It's like trying to save your house from a flood by painting it.
    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1575975543958142977
  • Options

    What is the largest actual majority we think Labour could achieve?

    704
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,601
    Cyclefree is on the ball as always. However as so often more than one strand of the many problems can get confused.

    In terms of presentation obviously this is a disaster. In one bound Truss and co manage both to spook the people who actually have some say over trillions and to devastate the lives and opinions of ordinary middle ground punters. This takes skill. And there is a special advanced skill in giving away hundreds of billions of free money and getting no credit for it.

    Books will be written about this.

    However, the real problem is not the presentation disaster of giving away a few billion to the rich. These sums are accounting footnotes. The real problem is that we are in a cycle, and have been since 2008 at least of borrowing to live beyond our means and affording it by artificial zero/negative interest rates.

    We are still in it. Bank crisis, Covid, Ukraine, and now Energy. Next it will be housing/mortgages to be met by oceans of free money.

    On this matter solutions seem more distant.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Where the Wind Blows. Don’t read or watch that. We had that had school.
    I’ve seen that. Very fine

    But not in the same league as THREADS. None of them are. Not The Day After, not War Game

    Threads strikes me as one of those perfect low budget British movies where everything miraculously comes together - theme, actors, location, script, research, ideas - and you get a masterpiece that grows in reputation over time

    Withnail and Wickerman seem apt comparisons

    Threads has gone straight into my top ten movies ever. At my advanced age, that seldom happens
    Watch the documentary posted up thread. It’s the precursor to Threads. Some sardonic wit.

    Threads is important. Only the BBC could have done that.
    Threads and Se7en are, I think, the two most frightening films that I ever watched.

    The things about Threads is that it's so plausible, and happening to people just like you and me. And, the survivors really are the unlucky ones.
  • Options

    Farooq said:

    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
    Why would a t-rex watch Jurassic Park?
    A T. rex would be horrified at Jurassic Park showing its peers without their usual feathery covering.
    Or he might find it quite hot.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296

    Farooq said:

    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
    Why would a t-rex watch Jurassic Park?
    A T. rex would be horrified at Jurassic Park showing its peers without their usual feathery covering.
    It’s fascinating how quickly Jurassic Park became out of date. Not all dinosaurs were feathered, but a significant number were. I used to have dinosaur books which pictured T-Rex standing upright, rather than the more modern horizontal positioning.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,042

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    Very naive of you to think this. She’s a sleazy Tory politician - lying is in the blood.
  • Options
    RattersRatters Posts: 798
    We all thought the 2022 Conservative conference might end up being a make-or-break moment for the Prime Minister.

    The surprise is that it's Boris's replacement, rather than Boris, that has managed to collapse so spectacularly in such a short space of time.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927

    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Where the Wind Blows. Don’t read or watch that. We had that had school.
    It's actually quite a surprise to find how many people on PB have not watched the key triad (to use an appropriate term) of films. Maybe it's a generation thing.
    I picked up Where The Wind Blows in the library when I was about 10 years old - cartoons, same size as an Asterix or Tintin book, I thought it was a kids book. It isn’t.

    A hugely powerful book for me. To have stayed with me so vividly is a mark of its impact on my young mind.
    The Wargame disturbed me a lot as a child, although not as much as Threads.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,144
    algarkirk said:

    In terms of presentation obviously this is a disaster. In one bound Truss and co manage both to spook the people who actually have some say over trillions and to devastate the lives and opinions of ordinary middle ground punters. This takes skill. And there is a special advanced skill in giving away hundreds of billions of free money and getting no credit for it.

    “They love the invisible hand until it gives them the invisible finger”.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    Reflecting on the mornings comments I was struck by the thought that LT is only in power because of her predecessors dishonesty and perceived incompetence. Not because of his policies.

    She has no mandate to change policy dramatically.

    And she argued the same! Boris was great, made some personal errors, but should not have been ousted, that was her view. It doesn't get less stupid the more the supposed urgency and inviolability of her actions comes up.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,316

    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien
    ·
    25m
    First ukrainian official Ive seen putting a specific figure on the number of Russian troops trapped in Lyman. 5000.

    https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,553
    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    I’ve been thinking a lot about Haidt’s excellent book ‘The Righteous Mind’ in the past few days: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Righteous_Mind

    TLDR; the things you think are beyond the pale morally, are to another person the only moral answer.

    The usual conclusion from the book is that we should be more understanding of others’ political positions - more often than we think our opponents genuinely believe in the moral purpose of what they are doing.

    In the case of the extremists in government, I feel there is also another conclusion to draw. If you are weird enough, you can find almost any outcome the ‘moral’ one (cf gulags under communism). So one should be deeply suspicious of one’s own moral certainties.

    Given what others have posted about Truss in the last few hours, I’m not sure she will be open to that conclusion though.

    I've not read it (although will now add it to the pile), but I did write this a few months ago on Facebook:


    What a lot of bollocks.

    This sanctimonious arsehole (bet he's a Dem) needs to mind his own business.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,553
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    It's horrifying as opposed to terrifying.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,337
    Scott_xP said:

    Tax cuts for the rich paid for by your children’s education.

    That’s quite a look the Tories are going for.

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/school-budget-cuts-follow-national-insurance-change/

    TBF, the funding situation was always going to collapse schools in the short to medium term anyway.
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    nico679 said:

    Where is the electoral mandate for this low tax and smaller state economy . Truss and Kwarteng are determined to change the UKs economic model with absolutely no democratic consent .

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1202879393313574912
  • Options

    Farooq said:

    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
    Why would a t-rex watch Jurassic Park?
    A T. rex would be horrified at Jurassic Park showing its peers without their usual feathery covering.
    It’s fascinating how quickly Jurassic Park became out of date. Not all dinosaurs were feathered, but a significant number were. I used to have dinosaur books which pictured T-Rex standing upright, rather than the more modern horizontal positioning.
    On that score Jurassic Park was out of date before it was even made - in spite of leaning heavily on the new theories that were circulating at the time about warm blooded dinosaurs. They made great use of the ideas of Bob Bakker who was one of the original proponents of the warm blooded dinosaur hypothesis and which included feathered dinosaurs. They seem to have made a conscious decision not to push things too far away from the traditional view of dinosaurs and so limited the use of feathers and fur.

    They pay a direct homage to Bakker in the second film by having one of the experts who returns to the island based on him including his distinictive looks.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774
    FPT:
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    PeterM said:
    Sadly I can’t speak Russian.
    What’s that they’re singing? Is it “Whistle a Happy Tune” from the King and I?
    Look at the streets around them in the long shots. It's a couple of pens for a few thousand people bussed in for the regime. This in a city of 12m people.
    The BBC certainly showed clips and it is obviously a much smaller crowd then Russian propaganda would have you believe
    Perhaps Mad Vlad's good buddy the Sage > Security Risk of Mar-a-Lardo can lend him a hand, via 45's own proven "fuzzy math" re: crowd "estimates"?
    The irony is that, if the USA was at present *enjoying* President Trump's 2nd term, we'd probably be at less risk of going to all out war and global death. Coz Trump would have said Sure, have Ukraine, & Putin would have taken half of Ukraine, end of story
    I ought to apologise for reacting to this because I know it was posted tongue in cheek but in such scenario, whatever else might happen, it would not be "end of story".
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296
    murali_s said:

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    Very naive of you to think this. She’s a sleazy Tory politician - lying is in the blood.
    I try to think the best of people.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,253
    edited October 2022
    Which ‘people’ would these be I wonder? The Sioux or Zoroastrians, or Rangers supporters perhaps?


  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    Farooq said:

    CD13 said:

    I still remember going to bed in late October 1962, thinking that I might not quite reach my teens, my thirteenth birthday not being until January.

    As always, we muddled through and since then, I've treated doom-sayers with a little contempt. If it's being foreseen, it probably won't happen. It's the unforseen you need to worry about.

    Global warning? A piece of piss. Nuckear war? It won't happen. A large asteroid? We can probably knock it off-course.

    A complete f*ck-up? Always possible, but no point worrying about. As for a financial misadventure? Put it into context. What is this life if full of care ...

    To be fair I also thought I wouldn’t reach my teens because I was convinced a T-Rex was going to eat me after watching Jurassic Park
    Why would a t-rex watch Jurassic Park?
    A T. rex would be horrified at Jurassic Park showing its peers without their usual feathery covering.
    I believe Dr Wu, my favourite character of the entire franchise (dude just wanted to make dinosaurs, and incompetent and evil people kept misusing that), explained it all in Jurassic World as basically 'Look, we're doing the best we can, and are having to fill in the gaps, so of course these things aren't like real dinosaurs'.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,553
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Barely slept because Threads

    Thanks, you bastards

    Our pleasure. Although I wasn’t allowed to watch it when it first aired, being 10 years old, even just the Radio Times cover gave me nightmares at the time.

    https://www.crazyaboutmagazines.com/ourshop/prod_1230357-Radio-Times-magazine-Picking-Up-The-Threads-cover-2228-September-1984.html
    It’s a sublime work of art. And yet appalling. After watching it last night I went down the rabbit hole of “research”

    Maybe a bit of me wanted to discover that the movie exaggerates nuclear war. It does not. The director spent A YEAR talking to 50 different experts on everything from civil defence to radiation poisoning. The prep was METICULOUS. And the budget was just £400k! Which probably enforced artistic discipline

    I said last night it wasn’t as terrifying as I expected. I’m not sure that’s right now. It’s just terrifying in a different way to a great horror movie like Exorcist

    It’s existentially terrifying to realise humanity could do this to itself. And has built the weapons to do it. So that’s profoundly troubling; sure, it doesn’t make you reel back like the Exorcist’s spiderwalk, but it makes you stare into space with a quiet dread. And interrupts your sleep

    Next: five seasons of BAKE OFF

    Where the Wind Blows. Don’t read or watch that. We had that had school.
    I’ve seen that. Very fine

    But not in the same league as THREADS. None of them are. Not The Day After, not War Game

    Threads strikes me as one of those perfect low budget British movies where everything miraculously comes together - theme, actors, location, script, research, ideas - and you get a masterpiece that grows in reputation over time

    Withnail and Wickerman seem apt comparisons

    Threads has gone straight into my top ten movies ever. At my advanced age, that seldom happens
    One of the most powerful aspects of Threads is the loud Whitehall typewriter that occasionally intersperses with the action to tap out, in white letters, the latest nuclear exchanges on a totally black background. No music. Then, a pause. And then an utterly catastrophic explosion and sickening scene of devastation and horror.

    Brilliant.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,337

    murali_s said:

    Liz Truss says the markets don't understand her plans.

    Liz Truss thinks the energy cap caps your bill at £2500 a year - she doesn't understand her plans.

    No, she doesn’t think that. That was a slip of the tongue and you know it.
    Very naive of you to think this. She’s a sleazy Tory politician - lying is in the blood.
    I try to think the best of people.
    Let's apply this to Liz Truss.

    Unlike her predecessor, she isn't so far as we know an actual criminal.

    Well, it's something I suppose.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    I’ve been thinking a lot about Haidt’s excellent book ‘The Righteous Mind’ in the past few days: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Righteous_Mind

    TLDR; the things you think are beyond the pale morally, are to another person the only moral answer.

    The usual conclusion from the book is that we should be more understanding of others’ political positions - more often than we think our opponents genuinely believe in the moral purpose of what they are doing.

    In the case of the extremists in government, I feel there is also another conclusion to draw. If you are weird enough, you can find almost any outcome the ‘moral’ one (cf gulags under communism). So one should be deeply suspicious of one’s own moral certainties.

    Given what others have posted about Truss in the last few hours, I’m not sure she will be open to that conclusion though.

    I've not read it (although will now add it to the pile), but I did write this a few months ago on Facebook:


    What a lot of bollocks.

    This sanctimonious arsehole (bet he's a Dem) needs to mind his own business.
    Weird to refer to yourself in the third person but I am glad you're reflecting on your many flaws.
This discussion has been closed.