So far the polling’s not looking bad for LizT – politicalbetting.com

Peter_the_Punter said:

Sandpit said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Nigelb said:

FrankBooth said:

I'm no expert on American law but wonder if people should be laying Trump now?

Been doing that for a while.

He’s a proud scofflaw, but it’s been increasingly evident that there might finally be sufficient evidence of numerous illegalities for the law to have its way with him.

One very small straw in the wind is that my sole Trumpite friend, an ex-pat from Enfield now living in Florida, now refers to him as 'an idiot'. He thinks he shouldn't run but is 'idiotic enough to do it.' This from a guy who said the day Trump won the White House was the happiest of his life.

He hates Biden of course but nevertheless if Trump is losing the likes of him, he's finished.

A Ron DeSantis fan, by any chance?

Am afraid to ask him. I know he regards Steve Bannon as dangerously liberal.

Someone with a policy of deporting immigrants from Florida might not go down too well?

MoonRabbit said:

All I can say is, I think the Truss bounce is irrational - it’s not driven by liking her approach to things or her policies is it 🤷‍♀️

Not. Boris.

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Men who eat meat should be banned from having sex, the animal rights group Peta has demanded, claiming that devouring sausages and schnitzel is a symptom of “toxic masculinity” which is killing the planet.

Peta’s German operation cited research from the scientific journal PLOS One which showed that men caused 41 per cent more greenhouse gas emissions than women largely because they consumed more meat.

Peta demanded a “sex ban for all meat-eating men” and called on women to “go on sex strike to save the world”.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-meat-eating-men-from-sex-animal-rights-group-urges-d9rk3850z

If we're not supposed to eat animals why are they made out of meat?

Can PETA also ask crocodiles, sharks, lions and tigers to stop eating us?

I think that on average (if you don't live in Sudan, Cornwall, or the Northern Territory) the stats rather point to the reverse.

But are you taking into account that HYUFD is a donkey?

Cicero said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Fracking in the UK will be impossible at any meaningful scale and will not help with the energy price crisis, the founder of the UK’s first fracking company has warned.

Chris Cornelius, the geologist who founded Cuadrilla Resources, which drilled the UK’s first modern hydraulic fracturing wells in Lancashire, told the Guardian that he believed the government’s support for it is merely a “political gesture”.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/21/fracking-wont-work-uk-founder-chris-cornelius-cuadrilla?CMP=share_btn_tw

Mm, thanks, now that is interesting (but unsurprising). Wonder if the PB frackers will believe him?

Edit: He's co-written an op-ed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/21/liz-truss-fracking-britain-economic-political-low-carbon-cuadrilla

With an interesting sting in the tail:

"In addition to the gesture at shale gas, we believe that two other readily available sources of net zero energy ought to be pursued.

One is the vast amount of warm, non-potable brine underneath large parts of the country – an energy source we have been evaluating for potential future ventures. [...]

And then there is Britain’s tidal range, second highest in the world."

A former colleague of mine is working for CeraPhi Energy who are looking at repurposing existing oil and gas wells, once they are depleted, as geothermal wells. Basically, you pull the Oil and Gas completion string and rerun a geothermal completion. It is an extremely costs effective way of making use of all those thousands of oil and gas wells that have reached the end of their lives rather than just pumping them full of cement which is what currently happens.

Thanks, that's interesting.

Would be fantastic news for Aberdeen

There's stuff going on in the North-East using former mines with similar-ish projects for heat extraction from the water that fills them now.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/mine-water-heat

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Men who eat meat should be banned from having sex, the animal rights group Peta has demanded, claiming that devouring sausages and schnitzel is a symptom of “toxic masculinity” which is killing the planet.

Peta’s German operation cited research from the scientific journal PLOS One which showed that men caused 41 per cent more greenhouse gas emissions than women largely because they consumed more meat.

Peta demanded a “sex ban for all meat-eating men” and called on women to “go on sex strike to save the world”.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-meat-eating-men-from-sex-animal-rights-group-urges-d9rk3850z

If we're not supposed to eat animals why are they made out of meat?

Well then we'd better stop eating beaver as well, to save the planet

Apropos of absolutely nothing the Mongolian word for beaver is minj.

ahahahahAHAHAHAHAHA

That's my favourite fact of THE WEEK

Thankee

In Estonia, '12 months' is pronounced 'Cocks taste good.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU6VBTGjYkk

MoonRabbit said:

All I can say is, I think the Truss bounce is irrational - it’s not driven by liking her approach to things or her policies is it 🤷‍♀️

78% support for business energy support policy according to YouGov
Whats shes announcing has sime very popukar elements, the 'hows it paid for' trough will come later

If PETA were able to prevent mosquitoes from eating us, I'd give them applause, and a small contribution.

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

This looks interesting.

https://twitter.com/billythalheimer/status/1572556301762449410
I’m excited to announce that REGENT has taken flight! 🛫

We combined the benefits from ground effect flight, distributed electric propulsion, and hydrofoiling into a single platform: the seaglider

Which will massively improve convenience & affordability of regional travel

Ha, a modern take on the Soviet cold-war era Ekranoplan. Basically it flies in the ground effect over water.

Much smarter than that old bus.

WhisperingOracle said:

Leon said:

WhisperingOracle said:

WillG said:

WhisperingOracle said:

WillG said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

"Leicester Muslim-Hindu clashes spread to Smethwick as masked mob descend on temple

Video shows up to 200 masked and hooded men gathered outside a Hindu temple near Birmingham, shouting 'Allahu akbar'" (£)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/leicester-muslim-hindu-clashes-spread-smethwick/

So looks like we will be having a mini India Pakistan conflict in our biggest Midlands cities and maybe even beyond over the next few days

Congratulations to everyone on the British Left from 1960-2020. Good work

Yes, I think we've contributing to making Britain a more successful multiracial country than nearly any other in Europe. Good for us, we've done well.

If the most successful examples entail sectarian riots, I am not sure that is the killer example argument you think it is.

However, I am not going to fall for the suggestion that this is just part of being a multiracial society. In reality there are lots of immigrants who integrate and have civilized standards of conduct. We should only be keeping out the ones with hardline religious/cultural views that condone violence or try to institute honour culture.

Have a look at France, Sweden, Spain and Italy for a comparison. Britain has done remarkably well. Germany is really the only country that is catching is up, with the Netherlands not doing too badly more recently, either.

The conclusion from this line of argument would be "all have made a collective mistake".

Have they ? Germany for instance rocket-boosted its economic growth and is integrating a huge number of people better than France, or more recently the US, arguably.

I'm really not sure Germany is doing that well

A lot of younger Syrians have gone successfully right through the education system and into higher education now, or filling job vacancies. Minimal unrest compared to a few years ago, an increasingly well-adjusted society, I would say. Berlin's open-minded dynamism rivals London's now.

And I am calling this out for bollocks

Go see the reality

I think the Fed are about to announce interest rate hike now?

At present, Seattle has 3rd-worst air quality of any major world city (behind Lahore & Dubai) with AQI (US) score of 148, just a couple ticks away from Unhealthy for everyone.

This is because of easterly winds blowing in smoke from Bolt Creek forest fire, which is still raging up on western slope of Cascades near Stevens Pass.

When I walked out my door earlier this morning, smelled like I was stepping into an ashtray. Ugh!

Ha ha, the first of how many?

Comedian Frankie Boyle last month filmed a one-off ‘documentary’ for Channel 4, on the subject of Monarchy.

https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/7011/frankie-boyle-new-world-order-to-return/

The station is now working out what the hell they’re supposed to do with it, I suspect at least a year locked in a waterproof vault and placed in a piranha-infested pond…

Blunt. Already works to an extent of course, hence why assistance has been limited not direct.

I'm no more eager to die in nuclear fire than anyone else.

However, I just don't see how the world can function with a precedent whereby Russia can unilaterally declare it has annexed territory thrice the size of Belgium and forestall resistance through nuclear extortion.

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1572541943514824705?cxt=HHwWgoDUmZyk5dIrAAAA

Trump’s Pick for the Mar-a-Lago Special Master Was a Spectacular Own Goal
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/09/trump-judge-dearie-mar-a-lago-special-master-fail.html

MarqueeMark said:

If Putin wants to play at being a twat, then let's do the same.

1. Have a vote to revoke Russia's standing as successor to the USSR at the United Nations.

2. Have a vote then to replace it with Ukraine.

3. Have a vote to put a UN peacekeeping force in Ukraine.

4. All Ukraine. Donbas, Crimea.

5. Fly the first elements in overnight.

6. Wait to see if Putin will nuke the UN.....

You are assuming that the results of such votes would be against Russia? Seems doubtful proposition.

Carnyx said:

Chris said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Men who eat meat should be banned from having sex, the animal rights group Peta has demanded, claiming that devouring sausages and schnitzel is a symptom of “toxic masculinity” which is killing the planet.

Peta’s German operation cited research from the scientific journal PLOS One which showed that men caused 41 per cent more greenhouse gas emissions than women largely because they consumed more meat.

Peta demanded a “sex ban for all meat-eating men” and called on women to “go on sex strike to save the world”.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-meat-eating-men-from-sex-animal-rights-group-urges-d9rk3850z

If we're not supposed to eat animals why are they made out of meat?

Can PETA also ask crocodiles, sharks, lions and tigers to stop eating us?

I think that on average (if you don't live in Sudan, Cornwall, or the Northern Territory) the stats rather point to the reverse.

But are you taking into account that HYUFD is a donkey?

No, I don't eat donkeys (but have eaten shark, in the form of huss).

I was rather thinking he might be appealing to PETA to stop crocodiles, sharks, lions and tigers from eating donkeys.

I'd suggest he just tries to get them signed up as members of his local Conservative Association, and they'd probably fit in perfectly well.

kle4 said:

Blunt. Already works to an extent of course, hence why assistance has been limited not direct.

I'm no more eager to die in nuclear fire than anyone else.

However, I just don't see how the world can function with a precedent whereby Russia can unilaterally declare it has annexed territory thrice the size of Belgium and forestall resistance through nuclear extortion.

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1572541943514824705?cxt=HHwWgoDUmZyk5dIrAAAA

Well I volunteer him and his family to die first in the Big One

If Putin drops a tactical nuke and says "I'm doing a big one next" I for one will probably blink. Fuck it. Let him have his ruined bits of Ukraine. Tell him, however, that if he crosses one centimetre into NATO then we all die in the Apocalypse (and also try to undermine his regime in every and any way and impose the fiercest sanctions possible)

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

MarqueeMark said:

If Putin wants to play at being a twat, then let's do the same.

1. Have a vote to revoke Russia's standing as successor to the USSR at the United Nations.

2. Have a vote then to replace it with Ukraine.

3. Have a vote to put a UN peacekeeping force in Ukraine.

4. All Ukraine. Donbas, Crimea.

5. Fly the first elements in overnight.

6. Wait to see if Putin will nuke the UN.....

You are assuming that the results of such votes would be against Russia? Seems doubtful proposition.

A quiet word. About aid to your country.

And your Swiss bank account currently has a balance of zero francs.....

MarqueeMark said:

Putin's mobilization going down like a cup of cold sick:

https://twitter.com/mytweetb2b/status/1572628733852553216

This is how revolutions start in Russia....

Are you sure that is recent footage - most are still wearing masks?

Leon said:

Twitter reporting that the "queues of Russians at the Finnish border" are fake news

Who knows

Depends if it is the army of Russian bots on Twitter saying so....

Those that haven't legged it to the Finnish border anyway.

MoonRabbit said:

All I can say is, I think the Truss bounce is irrational - it’s not driven by liking her approach to things or her policies is it 🤷‍♀️

I disagree. I think it is. She is being underestimated.

ydoethur said:

Sandpit said:

Ha ha, the first of how many?

Comedian Frankie Boyle last month filmed a one-off ‘documentary’ for Channel 4, on the subject of Monarchy.

https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/7011/frankie-boyle-new-world-order-to-return/

The station is now working out what the hell they’re supposed to do with it, I suspect at least a year locked in a waterproof vault and placed in a piranha-infested pond…

I'm not Frankie Boyle's biggest fan, but putting him in a piranha-infested pond strikes me as excessive.

Very good. I wonder how many programmes scheduled for the autumn and winter, are having to be hastily re-written, re-edited, or even re-filmed, in light of recent events?

Now not all of them will be very irreverent comedies in the style of Boyle, but there will definitely be a load of unsuitable material out there. Boyle’s programme might make it to an online channel at Christmas 2023 - if he’s lucky!

MarqueeMark said:

Leon said:

Twitter reporting that the "queues of Russians at the Finnish border" are fake news

Who knows

Depends if it is the army of Russian bots on Twitter saying so....

Those that haven't legged it to the Finnish border anyway.

Finnish border authorities are now saying it categorically. No Queues. I am fairly sure it was Fake News spread by anti-Russian sources, and accepted by people eager to hear this bad news for Putin (me included)

However the news that all flights out of Russia have sold out is true. I checked

CarlottaVance said:

Fracking in the UK will be impossible at any meaningful scale and will not help with the energy price crisis, the founder of the UK’s first fracking company has warned.

Chris Cornelius, the geologist who founded Cuadrilla Resources, which drilled the UK’s first modern hydraulic fracturing wells in Lancashire, told the Guardian that he believed the government’s support for it is merely a “political gesture”.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/21/fracking-wont-work-uk-founder-chris-cornelius-cuadrilla?CMP=share_btn_tw

What does this so-called "expert" know about fracking? How does his hands-on experience running the biggest fracker in the UK possibly trump the simple assurance held by geriatric Tory members?

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Leon said:

Twitter reporting that the "queues of Russians at the Finnish border" are fake news

Who knows

https://exclusiveforcar.com/en/services/border-queue

Does look like a bit of a line up heading out of Russia (right camera).

But is that abnormal?

Creditable Finnish accounts - like the Border Authorities there - say this is nothing unusual

RochdalePioneers said:

CarlottaVance said:

Fracking in the UK will be impossible at any meaningful scale and will not help with the energy price crisis, the founder of the UK’s first fracking company has warned.

Chris Cornelius, the geologist who founded Cuadrilla Resources, which drilled the UK’s first modern hydraulic fracturing wells in Lancashire, told the Guardian that he believed the government’s support for it is merely a “political gesture”.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/21/fracking-wont-work-uk-founder-chris-cornelius-cuadrilla?CMP=share_btn_tw

What does this so-called "expert" know about fracking? How does his hands-on experience running the biggest fracker in the UK possibly trump the simple assurance held by geriatric Tory members?

The problem is he didn't dream or wish hard enough....

If we ignore reality and wish hard enough everything will be fine....

Sandpit said:

ydoethur said:

Sandpit said:

Ha ha, the first of how many?

Comedian Frankie Boyle last month filmed a one-off ‘documentary’ for Channel 4, on the subject of Monarchy.

https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/7011/frankie-boyle-new-world-order-to-return/

The station is now working out what the hell they’re supposed to do with it, I suspect at least a year locked in a waterproof vault and placed in a piranha-infested pond…

I'm not Frankie Boyle's biggest fan, but putting him in a piranha-infested pond strikes me as excessive.

Very good. I wonder how many programmes scheduled for the autumn and winter, are having to be hastily re-written, re-edited, or even re-filmed, in light of recent events?

Now not all of them will be very irreverent comedies in the style of Boyle, but there will definitely be a load of unsuitable material out there. Boyle’s programme might make it to an online channel at Christmas 2023 - if he’s lucky!

Well, we've all been a bit throne by recent events.

eek said:

IFS - Truss's plans are completely unsustainable

https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1572632494750547968

NEW: In the absence of official scrutiny from
@OBR_UK
alongside Friday's announcement, we've provided our own #IFSGreenBudget fiscal forecasts with
@citibank
.

We find that planned tax cuts with stalling economic growth would leave debt on an unsustainable path.

All together now:

No. Shit. Sherlocks.

Richard_Tyndall said:

WillG said:

Malmesbury said:

WillG said:

Cookie said:

Cookie said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

"Leicester Muslim-Hindu clashes spread to Smethwick as masked mob descend on temple

Video shows up to 200 masked and hooded men gathered outside a Hindu temple near Birmingham, shouting 'Allahu akbar'" (£)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/leicester-muslim-hindu-clashes-spread-smethwick/

So looks like we will be having a mini India Pakistan conflict in our biggest Midlands cities and maybe even beyond over the next few days

Congratulations to everyone on the British Left from 1960-2020. Good work

*rubbing the right's nose in diversity* - I think they'll be very pleased with the outcome.

Out of curiousity, I've just googled this individual - he now works as a communications officer for TfL dealing with air quality.

I sometimes wonder whether we need to do what the US does with quotas for different nationalities for some visas, to ensure integration happens. The theory is that if people all come from different backgrounds they are more likely to intermix into the host culture.

A really smart way to do it would be to base it on levels of integration, from statistics on concentration of where people live or levels of mixed marriage. If you are from a group like Thais or Poles that have become part of the melting pot, we can sustain more immigration. If you are from a group that forms its own enclaves and only marries their own, we might need a cooling off period before more come.

One thing that 1st generation immigrants in my own family have commented on, is that they have felt the "Keep your own culture" thing as coming across as "Brits only can be Brits".

They came here to become British. Not to be an ethnic enclave.

Yes, this is the sensible middle way. What unites us is more important than what divides us. We have to reject the hard right view that different ethnic groups should live separate lives in separate countries and the hard left view that different ethnic groups should live separate lives in separate communities.

Integration, integration, integration. You could win a general election on that sort of message, if done tactfully.

The Norwegians have an excellent record on integration. They have strict rules on immigrants learning the language and taking exams in culture and history of Norway. When I worked there, settlement rights (not even citizenship) required 200 hours of compulsory classes. They work very, very hard to prevent enclaves forming and are extremely successful at it.

In Denmark, which has a similar system, there are still issues. According to a friend who is going through the process, a number of people go

- this is too hard
- I won’t do it
- It’s racist that I have less rights
- I hate this society
- Etc etc

Mind you, this Putin mobilisation is the dampest of squibs compared with the 1914 version. In just 312 hours, Germany ran 11,000 trains to mass 119,754 officers, 2.1 million men, and 600,000 horses on the French, Luxembourg and Belgian borders. Even the sclerotic Tsarist regime, with poor communications, a dysfunctional bureaucracy, and a much poorer railway network, managed an impressive mobilisation in days. This Putin guy is a rank amateur.

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Nigelb said:

Trump’s Pick for the Mar-a-Lago Special Master Was a Spectacular Own Goal
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/09/trump-judge-dearie-mar-a-lago-special-master-fail.html

Politico.com - Special master to Trump’s lawyers: ‘You can't have your cake and eat it’
Judge Raymond Dearie pushed Trump’s lawyers repeatedly for not backing up the former president’s claim that he declassified the highly sensitive national security-related records discovered in his residence.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/20/trump-special-master-judge-mar-a-lago-00057805

Like fact that Trumps's pick is Judge Dearie, while his chief mouthpiece in this matter is Mr Trusty!

The latter needing to walk a FINE line, so that he does NOT end up as "Trusty Trusty" at some Club Fed . . .

The judge, a veteran of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, expressed puzzlement about what his role would be if the government says certain documents are classified and Trump’s side disagrees but doesn’t offer proof to challenge that.

Not sure why is puzzled - Trump lawyers making grandiose claims they do not then back up in court seems par for the course. Causing delay and confusion seems to be the point, since it gives his backers enough scope to support his claims even if they are then completely dismissed.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Mind you, this Putin mobilisation is the dampest of squibs compared with the 1914 version. In just 312 hours, Germany ran 11,000 trains to mass 119,754 officers, 2.1 million men, and 600,000 horses on the French, Luxembourg and Belgian borders. Even the sclerotic Tsarist regime, with poor communications, a dysfunctional bureaucracy, and a much poorer railway network, managed an impressive mobilisation in days. This Putin guy is a rank amateur.

I sense of bit of "prep" there, as the chefs say

OK FUCK IT THEN LET'S HAVE THE WAR

I'm going to the Groucho to drink my entire bodyweight, and the last of my Covid Credit, in Perrier Jouet, see you all on the other side

Leon said:

moonshine said:

There are lots of Twitter comments that the queues to get through the Russian border into Finland are fake news.

Is that right? Or are these comments calling fake news actually the fake news.

The modern world is so confusing.

Fake News

Official Account of Finnish Border Guard

"The situation at Finland's borders has not changed significantly today with the announcement of Russia's motion. There are videos circulating on social media, at least some of which have already been filmed before and taken out of context. There is incorrect information in circulation."

https://twitter.com/rajavartijat/status/1572612093190475778?s=20&t=EVvxAPdNbiU59qxZFKRjrQ

Official statement bit more subtle than saying ALL reports are "fake news".

Perhaps because it is NOT judged in Finland's national interest to focus on border situation at present?

To be clear, am NOT saying there IS a situation, just that official statement is capable of more than one interpretation.

eek said:

IFS - Truss's plans are completely unsustainable

https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1572632494750547968

NEW: In the absence of official scrutiny from
@OBR_UK
alongside Friday's announcement, we've provided our own #IFSGreenBudget fiscal forecasts with
@citibank
.

We find that planned tax cuts with stalling economic growth would leave debt on an unsustainable path.

How does this show the tories are “competent” with the economy. It looks like Truss is about to blow the whole thing up. No idea why - presumably to stick two fingers up to the embedded dogma of the treasury?!

Malmesbury said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

WillG said:

Malmesbury said:

WillG said:

Cookie said:

Cookie said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

"Leicester Muslim-Hindu clashes spread to Smethwick as masked mob descend on temple

Video shows up to 200 masked and hooded men gathered outside a Hindu temple near Birmingham, shouting 'Allahu akbar'" (£)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/leicester-muslim-hindu-clashes-spread-smethwick/

So looks like we will be having a mini India Pakistan conflict in our biggest Midlands cities and maybe even beyond over the next few days

Congratulations to everyone on the British Left from 1960-2020. Good work

*rubbing the right's nose in diversity* - I think they'll be very pleased with the outcome.

Out of curiousity, I've just googled this individual - he now works as a communications officer for TfL dealing with air quality.

I sometimes wonder whether we need to do what the US does with quotas for different nationalities for some visas, to ensure integration happens. The theory is that if people all come from different backgrounds they are more likely to intermix into the host culture.

A really smart way to do it would be to base it on levels of integration, from statistics on concentration of where people live or levels of mixed marriage. If you are from a group like Thais or Poles that have become part of the melting pot, we can sustain more immigration. If you are from a group that forms its own enclaves and only marries their own, we might need a cooling off period before more come.

One thing that 1st generation immigrants in my own family have commented on, is that they have felt the "Keep your own culture" thing as coming across as "Brits only can be Brits".

They came here to become British. Not to be an ethnic enclave.

Yes, this is the sensible middle way. What unites us is more important than what divides us. We have to reject the hard right view that different ethnic groups should live separate lives in separate countries and the hard left view that different ethnic groups should live separate lives in separate communities.

Integration, integration, integration. You could win a general election on that sort of message, if done tactfully.

The Norwegians have an excellent record on integration. They have strict rules on immigrants learning the language and taking exams in culture and history of Norway. When I worked there, settlement rights (not even citizenship) required 200 hours of compulsory classes. They work very, very hard to prevent enclaves forming and are extremely successful at it.

In Denmark, which has a similar system, there are still issues. According to a friend who is going through the process, a number of people go

- this is too hard
- I won’t do it
- It’s racist that I have less rights
- I hate this society
- Etc etc

No citizenship for those who cannot use 'less' amd 'fewer' the right way around.

Razedabode said:

eek said:

IFS - Truss's plans are completely unsustainable

https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1572632494750547968

NEW: In the absence of official scrutiny from
@OBR_UK
alongside Friday's announcement, we've provided our own #IFSGreenBudget fiscal forecasts with
@citibank
.

We find that planned tax cuts with stalling economic growth would leave debt on an unsustainable path.

How does this show the tories are “competent” with the economy. It looks like Truss is about to blow the whole thing up. No idea why - presumably to stick two fingers up to the embedded dogma of the treasury?!

I think I know why - she's promised her master mates that she will reduce taxes and no matter what the treasury says that is what she is going to do...

bondegezou said:

Cyclefree said:

bondegezou said:

Cyclefree said:

bondegezou said:

Cyclefree said:

CarlottaVance said:

bondegezou said:

Cyclefree said:

Phil said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

This whole thread is desolating: when American capitalist medicine meets a crazy new ideology


American clinics are pushing radical trans surgery and puberty blockers on kids "because they make so much m money for us". Here they are ADMITTING it

"Vanderbilt opened its trans clinic in 2018. During a lecture the same year, Dr. Shayne Taylor explained how she convinced Nashville to get into the gender transition game. She emphasized that it's a "big money maker," especially because the surgeries require a lot of "follow ups""


"Just a few vaginoplasties can finance the whole clinic"

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1572313523232931840?s=20&t=KWigxdGdSfnRBOqe_Fu_Zg


How have we allowed this madness to prosper?

They had better have some bloody good insurance in place for the inevitable lawsuits, which have already started.

There’s an ambulance chasing law firm running around the UK trying to drum up business. Have they actually managed to find more than a single digit numbers of clients?

I was referring to law suits in the US.

As far as the U.K. is concerned, I don't know the answer to your question. The name of the law firm was unknown to me and is not one I've heard of in relation to medical negligence claims.

Rather than suing after the event (when damage, possibly or reversible damage, is done), it would be more sensible to get a properly evidenced basis for the right sort of treatment for those with properly diagnosed gender dysphoria, especially in the case of children. Hopefully, the final Cass Report will help with that and those with a financial or other interest in pushing drugs or surgery will not be involved in making recommendations. Medical treatment should only be given for sound medical reasons and only if it is in the best medical interests of the patient.

I am curious as to why NICE has not been involved in relation to the Tavistock issue. Perhaps it was.

Isn't it more a CQC matter than a NICE matter? NICE advise on specific treatments, generally new ones, with a focus on more common conditions. CQC oversees care more generally. The Cass Report suggests the problems at the Tavistock are more general rather than in terms of the efficacy of specific treatments. Also, CQC regulates while NICE advises.

Whoever is responsible I hope they are scrutinising this very closely:

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/wpath/

The Standards of Care are not official standards, but are influential around the world. WPATH calls them “internationally accepted guidelines”. The NHS refers to the WPATH Standards of Care in a variety of medical documents (including the previous service specification for the Tavistock Gender and Identity Development Service clinic). The Scottish government also relies on them in its decision-making. The Standards of Care featured heavily in the significant case of Bell v Tavistock. These guidelines have been used by numerous private health clinics throughout the UK, to justify irreversible treatment on children and young people…..

…..The guidelines have removed any minimum age limit for a child to be given puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones or sex-reassignment surgery (so long as that child has reached ‘Tanner Stage 2’ of puberty, which can be as young as nine years old)….

…Abandonment of mental-health safeguarding – The guidelines explicitly state that therapy or counselling should “never be mandatory” before prescribing irreversible medication or surgery, including for children. Therapeutic professionals are told that they must not impose their own narratives or preconceptions, yet are also told that they must be “gender affirming”. These principles are fundamentally incompatible.

The more important point to note is that many of the people behind W-PATH are not doctors at all and some of those who are have very clear conflicts of interest. More worryingly it has worked closely with some very odd individuals, who really should be nowhere near medical care of any kind - see for instance the person who was apparently involved in writing the chapter on eunuchs.

The wider point is perhaps this: even the medical establishment is not immune from fads or for allowing ideologies to influence treatment. See the sterilisation of "simple-minded" women during the 20th century or the treatment of homosexuality, considered a mental disorder at one time. So it really matters to get care which is based on sound and properly tested evidence not as a result of wish fulfilment or ideology of self-interest. The evidence in the Keira Bell case is really interesting on this aspect, as is the Court's reaction, even if the decision - on the issue of Gillick competence - was the right one.

W-PATH is an international, interdisciplinary body. Most of them are doctors. This is the current executive committee: https://www.wpath.org/about/EC-BOD You will see nearly all of them are MDs or MBBSs (i.e., doctors). The four people there who aren't are a JD, a PsyD and a PhD, plus a medical student representative. These would appear to be relevant qualifications.

You're right about fads, of course. Doctors can be wrong about things. Doctors often are wrong about things.

It rather depends on what their speciality is and whether they have a financial or other interest in the recommendations they are making. Conflicts of interest make for bad decisions, whether by doctors or anyone else.

I would be surprised if their specialties was not in transgendered medicine.

I couldn't see any conflict of interest statement on their website. Conflicts of interest can be problematic, but are also often hard to avoid. At a general level, if you are a doctor who works in specialty X, then you're going to have an interest in people providing good funding for specialty X! Transparency is to be recommended.

More generally, I concur with your earlier point about fads. I've not looked into this in depth, but as far as I can tell, W-PATH is a bunch of people who are interested in the best outcome for patients. However, it is possible to have good intentions, but come to the wrong conclusions.

I would be interested to know more about how W-PATH came about and who is involved in writing their guidelines. I have heard different accounts. The whole issue around medical treatment for those with dysphoria seems so bound up with debates about gender ideology that it seems hard to disentangle medicine from ideology. That worries me. It does not seem to me to be conducive to good decision-making. And scandals like the sterilisation of women etc should really make us think harder about such issues.

I agree that the debates about medicine are entangled with debates about ideology, and that is concerning. However, I'm not certain these things can ever be disentangled. So, what do you do? I don't see a non-ideological path.

Once upon a time, it was accepted that homosexuality was a perversion. Discussion in medicine was about how best to cure people. Nowadays, fortunately, ideology has changed in most places and we see nothing wrong in homosexuality. Discussion in medicine has changed: there is no talk of cure, and instead talk of providing sensitive care and understanding specific medicine issues that may be commoner among MSM and WSW. The medicine and the ideology are intertwined, and thankfully society worked out the ideology. (Medicine/science can usefully inform the ideology, but there are still ideological choices to be made.)

I'm not sure I agree. What ideology is involved in the treatment of TB or a broken leg? We don't allow the ideology of a Jehovah's Witness to prevent a blood transfusion for a child if that is medically necessary.

And yet the very definition of transgender - let alone its treatment - seems to be fundamentally derived from an ideology rather than any clear evidence based scientific knowledge. I accept that there are people who have gender dysphoria but the definition of transgender now (insofar as it is at all clear) seems to be very much wider than that.

For instance, I find it odd that some seem to think that doctors should "affirm" what a patient says about their medical condition without actually establishing whether what they are saying is correct or due to other issues. "Affirmation" is an essentially ideological stance not generally seen elsewhere in medicine AFAIUI. I can't just waltz into my GP, say I have a cancer, demand that he affirm this and then get all sorts of treatment, for instance. So why for dysphoria? That is an ideological stance - which then demands expensive, irreversible and potentially damaging medical treatment but apparently without any concomitant requirement to validate whether the patient does indeed have this condition. And this is particularly troubling when applied to children, especially ones as young as 9, as appears to be recommended by the latest version of these guidelines.

I am no psychiatrist but this seems a curious way of treating people with such troubling thoughts so at odds with their physical body. Having seen close up both the manifestation of similarly troubling thoughts coupled with a desire to mutilate oneself and the very lengthy care needed to help resolve this (none of which involved affirming the belief let alone encouraging the mutilation) I worry very much about letting ideology determine medical care in this most sensitive of areas. And, yet, this seems to be where we are headed. I do hope the Cass Review makes some sense of it all.

Moscow right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rEbvNslOSQ

Leon said:

OK FUCK IT THEN LET'S HAVE THE WAR

I'm going to the Groucho to drink my entire bodyweight, and the last of my Covid Credit, in Perrier Jouet, see you all on the other side

You be on here before 10 shrieking about the threat from woke aliens.

Sandpit said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Seattle Times - Boeing will outsource more corporate jobs to India

Boeing told nonunion corporate staff in an all-hands virtual meeting this month that it will begin outsourcing finance and accounting jobs to Tata Consultancy Services of India.

Boeing said Tuesday that about 150 jobs nationwide will be cut in the first batch of layoffs, with more to come next year and thereafter. The first layoff notices will go out in October.

“The Finance team is planning for lower staffing levels as it simplifies processes, improves efficiency and shares select work with an outside partner,” Boeing said in a statement, adding that it “will assess future impacts as the process continues in the coming years.”

SSI - so is THIS Boeing's contribution re: war against Ukraine?

More likely, part of the pitch to India to buy more Boeing airplanes & etc. BUT one hand washes another.

Simplifying processes and improving efficiency, not things usually associated with Indian outsourcing.

Effective management is not something anyone has recently associated with Boeing either.

eek said:

Razedabode said:

eek said:

IFS - Truss's plans are completely unsustainable

https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1572632494750547968

NEW: In the absence of official scrutiny from
@OBR_UK
alongside Friday's announcement, we've provided our own #IFSGreenBudget fiscal forecasts with
@citibank
.

We find that planned tax cuts with stalling economic growth would leave debt on an unsustainable path.

How does this show the tories are “competent” with the economy. It looks like Truss is about to blow the whole thing up. No idea why - presumably to stick two fingers up to the embedded dogma of the treasury?!

I think I know why - she's promised her master mates that she will reduce taxes and no matter what the treasury says that is what she is going to do...

To be honest I think she is highly likely to actually believe she is right about economics and wants to prove it. And she also figures she has nothing to lose. Labour are quite likely to remove the Tory majority at GE 24/5 and if she is wrong and the economy implodes then they get to clear up the mess and only limp on for a couple of years.

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

Truss leads Starmer by 7% in the Red Wall.

At this moment, which of the following do Red Wall voters think would be the better PM for the UK? (19-20 September)

Liz Truss 40% (+8)
Keir Starmer 33% (-6)
Don't Know 27% (-2)

Changes +/- 4 September

https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-18-19-september-2022

Even Gordon Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown led in the polls when they became.

This is quite striking.

Our latest Red Wall poll finds Labour leading the Conservatives by 15%, two points less than in our previous poll two weeks ago. Altogether, the results of our poll (with changes from 4 September) are as follows:

Labour 49% (+1)
Conservative 34% (+3)
Reform UK 7% (–)
Liberal Democrat 5% (-2)
Green 4% (-1)
Other 1% (–)
Plaid Cymru 0% (-1)

Reform UK above the Lib Dems looks quite significant.

Plaid down to 0% no doubt because @HYUFD will vote reform as his comments since Johnson make him a de facto member

Rubbish, I did not even vote Brexit Party at the European elections. I vote Conservative at general elections more than you do

Pity you undermine Truss at every opportunity you get, and have not accepted Johnson trashed the brand and is not fit for the office again

Stocky said:

MarqueeMark said:

Putin's mobilization going down like a cup of cold sick:

https://twitter.com/mytweetb2b/status/1572628733852553216

This is how revolutions start in Russia....

Are you sure that is recent footage - most are still wearing masks?

Probably in some naïve notion it helps against tear gas?

Sandpit said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Seattle Times - Boeing will outsource more corporate jobs to India

Boeing told nonunion corporate staff in an all-hands virtual meeting this month that it will begin outsourcing finance and accounting jobs to Tata Consultancy Services of India.

Boeing said Tuesday that about 150 jobs nationwide will be cut in the first batch of layoffs, with more to come next year and thereafter. The first layoff notices will go out in October.

“The Finance team is planning for lower staffing levels as it simplifies processes, improves efficiency and shares select work with an outside partner,” Boeing said in a statement, adding that it “will assess future impacts as the process continues in the coming years.”

SSI - so is THIS Boeing's contribution re: war against Ukraine?

More likely, part of the pitch to India to buy more Boeing airplanes & etc. BUT one hand washes another.

Simplifying processes and improving efficiency, not things usually associated with Indian outsourcing.

The process is simplified - you throw it over the wall to TCS and pray someone does something about it.

Meanwhile the people responsible will take the initial bonuses and leave before the real reality is discovered

rottenborough said:

eek said:

Razedabode said:

eek said:

IFS - Truss's plans are completely unsustainable

https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1572632494750547968

NEW: In the absence of official scrutiny from
@OBR_UK
alongside Friday's announcement, we've provided our own #IFSGreenBudget fiscal forecasts with
@citibank
.

We find that planned tax cuts with stalling economic growth would leave debt on an unsustainable path.

How does this show the tories are “competent” with the economy. It looks like Truss is about to blow the whole thing up. No idea why - presumably to stick two fingers up to the embedded dogma of the treasury?!

I think I know why - she's promised her master mates that she will reduce taxes and no matter what the treasury says that is what she is going to do...

To be honest I think she is highly likely to actually believe she is right about economics and wants to prove it. And she also figures she has nothing to lose. Labour are quite likely to remove the Tory majority at GE 24/5 and if she is wrong and the economy implodes then they get to clear up the mess and only limp on for a couple of years.

She is convinced and is not prevaricating when asked to justify it

The fact is tax cuts are very popular and no matter the IFS, OBR, labour and others object she is, as one would say, 'a Lady that is not for turning'

The truth is we are in uncertain and unpredictable times and it may pay off, as much as it may not, and as I have said previously the result of all this will determine the 2024 election

Chris said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

The fact is tax cuts are very popular ...

You amaze me.

And in the context of my comments your point is?