The US Midterms are looking more challenging for the GOP – politicalbetting.com

thart said:

moonshine said:

thart said:

Endillion said:

thart said:

Ive just counted 70 people in latest queue livestream. Only 3 from ethnic minorities or less than 5%. The bigger the sample size the better

How many would you expect to see, assuming they were equally represented?

Ok white population of london likely 50% now but in uk as a whole likely 80%. Lets assume half of the queue is from people outside london. So we split the difference between the 2 figures to get 65% expected white proportion of the queue. Reality is around 95%. So way out of line

You lot are supposed to be polling experts and you’re really having a conversation based on a sample size of 12?

Edit - I see this one is based on 70. I watched the other night for 10-20 mins and saw loads of mix in terms of race, age, social class. I didn’t care to count.

You didnt care to count. That says it all. At some point when i have time i will do a bigger count of several hundred. Yes ethnic minorities are there but a very low percentage. I will also do a count of the younger people. If ethnic minorities are a similar proportion of the young there then we are not looking at an age related phenomena at all

NerysHughes said:

Cookie said:

NerysHughes said:

Very surprising result, was it local issues?

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1570697210496524289?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Labour have had an absolute kicking in Bolton in recent years. Labour councillors are held in particularly low regard. One of the Runworth Labour councillors defected to the Conservatives a couple of years back.
This is a pretty deprived ward, and very heavily Asian.

For the tories to go from 11% to 55% Labour must be doing a King Herod. That must be a record for a Lab to Tory swing in recent years

Scott_xP said:

🚨 🚨

The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell BY A THIRD to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to data from HMRC.

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/

Cookie said:

NerysHughes said:

Cookie said:

NerysHughes said:

Very surprising result, was it local issues?

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1570697210496524289?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Labour have had an absolute kicking in Bolton in recent years. Labour councillors are held in particularly low regard. One of the Runworth Labour councillors defected to the Conservatives a couple of years back.
This is a pretty deprived ward, and very heavily Asian.

For the tories to go from 11% to 55% Labour must be doing a King Herod. That must be a record for a Lab to Tory swing in recent years

I must admit, I don't know exactly why Labour are so unpopular. They're viewed as ineffective and having taken their vote for granted; the town centre is run down, and the Greater Manchester Spatial Framework is somewhat controversial - but none of this seems to amount to the revulsion with which they now seem to be treated.
Andrew Teale - who is a Boltonian - was informative on the subject yesterday, but it still doesn't seem to amount to what you would expect for a turnaround of this scale: https://medium.com/britainelects/previewing-the-elections-of-15th-september-2022-2b35ae4f255b

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Scott_xP said:

🚨 🚨

The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell BY A THIRD to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to data from HMRC.

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/

Absolutely tragic. Small businesses that step up to become exporters tend to realise big productivity gains and are the backbone of any successful economy. Really dire news for future economic growth, wages, tax revenue etc.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

williamglenn said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Scott_xP said:

🚨 🚨

The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell BY A THIRD to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to data from HMRC.

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/

Absolutely tragic. Small businesses that step up to become exporters tend to realise big productivity gains and are the backbone of any successful economy. Really dire news for future economic growth, wages, tax revenue etc.

You seem to have had enough of experts:

In a response to the findings, a spokesperson for HMRC told City A.M.: “We have continually advised caution when comparing statistical trade data post-January 2021.”

He explained that “the way HMRC collects data has changed since the UK left the EU, and comparing year-on-year data can lead to misinterpretation and factual inaccuracies, which we believe is the case here.”

“In this case not only has our caution been disregarded, but the analysis only takes into account a very small subsection of overarching trade data,” the spokesperson added.

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

FPT

StillWaters said:

tlg86 said:

noneoftheabove said:

4 years jail without trial in the UK. Scandalous and completely unacceptable, not just for the suspect but also the interests of justice as witnesses recollections will be less reliable and accurate 4 years on.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/15/delays-leave-man-facing-four-years-in-leicester-jail-without-trial

This sounds odd/wrong:

When Petkovic’s trial did start, on 7 March 2021, its progress was then heavily delayed by the failure of the court’s air conditioning system in heatwave conditions. The trial collapsed in chaos on 27 July and the jury was discharged.

“The prison staff would not attend if the temperature in the court went above 23 degrees,” said Swan, of Stokoe Partnership solicitors.

I know some cases last a long time, but this doesn't sound like one of those.

23 degrees isn’t that hot?

That's easily 14 degrees lower than the classrooms I had to teach in and the children had to work in. Albeit I suppose the day in court would be longer.

If they were getting pissy about 23 degrees I'd say a disciplinary would be in order, because most non-air-conditioned rooms (I.e. most rooms) in England must exceed that on a regular basis in summer.

ALthough there are recommended minimum temperatures, 13c for manual and 16c for office there is no statutory maximum, the temperature simply has to be "reasonable". The TUC suggestion for office based workers is that 30c is the top end of reasonable but this has no statutory effect.

23c seems extremely low, especially when the officers are not wearing a dress shirt, wooly trousers, a waist coat, tails, a court gown and a ridiculous horsehair wig to stop any heat getting out the top. But then only dafties would wear something so ridiculous.

Edit, talking of which, show time.

They are not wearing stab vests or something are they?

No, because the accused would be searched before he was brought up from the cell to the court. It used to be 2 police officers or 2 prison officers if he was on remand but these days it is usually group 4 security personnel wearing a white shirt. It's a bit odd.

That's what I thought - but wanted to check.

So that is out.

30C inside ins't pleasant, but I have worked in those conditions.

Bunch of lightweights. I've been forced to work in 250c. Hell, I've seen a readout on a TIC of over 400c about 2 metres above my head. 30c? That's cold!🤪

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

FPT

StillWaters said:

tlg86 said:

noneoftheabove said:

4 years jail without trial in the UK. Scandalous and completely unacceptable, not just for the suspect but also the interests of justice as witnesses recollections will be less reliable and accurate 4 years on.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/15/delays-leave-man-facing-four-years-in-leicester-jail-without-trial

This sounds odd/wrong:

When Petkovic’s trial did start, on 7 March 2021, its progress was then heavily delayed by the failure of the court’s air conditioning system in heatwave conditions. The trial collapsed in chaos on 27 July and the jury was discharged.

“The prison staff would not attend if the temperature in the court went above 23 degrees,” said Swan, of Stokoe Partnership solicitors.

I know some cases last a long time, but this doesn't sound like one of those.

23 degrees isn’t that hot?

That's easily 14 degrees lower than the classrooms I had to teach in and the children had to work in. Albeit I suppose the day in court would be longer.

If they were getting pissy about 23 degrees I'd say a disciplinary would be in order, because most non-air-conditioned rooms (I.e. most rooms) in England must exceed that on a regular basis in summer.

ALthough there are recommended minimum temperatures, 13c for manual and 16c for office there is no statutory maximum, the temperature simply has to be "reasonable". The TUC suggestion for office based workers is that 30c is the top end of reasonable but this has no statutory effect.

23c seems extremely low, especially when the officers are not wearing a dress shirt, wooly trousers, a waist coat, tails, a court gown and a ridiculous horsehair wig to stop any heat getting out the top. But then only dafties would wear something so ridiculous.

Edit, talking of which, show time.

They are not wearing stab vests or something are they?

No, because the accused would be searched before he was brought up from the cell to the court. It used to be 2 police officers or 2 prison officers if he was on remand but these days it is usually group 4 security personnel wearing a white shirt. It's a bit odd.

That's what I thought - but wanted to check.

So that is out.

30C inside ins't pleasant, but I have worked in those conditions.

Bunch of lightweights. I've been forced to work in 250c. Hell, I've seen a readout on a TIC of over 400c about 2 metres above my head. 30c? That's cold!🤪

OnlyLivingBoy said:

williamglenn said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Scott_xP said:

🚨 🚨

The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell BY A THIRD to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to data from HMRC.

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/

Absolutely tragic. Small businesses that step up to become exporters tend to realise big productivity gains and are the backbone of any successful economy. Really dire news for future economic growth, wages, tax revenue etc.

You seem to have had enough of experts:

In a response to the findings, a spokesperson for HMRC told City A.M.: “We have continually advised caution when comparing statistical trade data post-January 2021.”

He explained that “the way HMRC collects data has changed since the UK left the EU, and comparing year-on-year data can lead to misinterpretation and factual inaccuracies, which we believe is the case here.”

“In this case not only has our caution been disregarded, but the analysis only takes into account a very small subsection of overarching trade data,” the spokesperson added.

Expert or government hack?

kinabalu said:

thart said:

kinabalu said:

thart said:

moonshine said:

thart said:

Endillion said:

thart said:

Ive just counted 70 people in latest queue livestream. Only 3 from ethnic minorities or less than 5%. The bigger the sample size the better

How many would you expect to see, assuming they were equally represented?

Ok white population of london likely 50% now but in uk as a whole likely 80%. Lets assume half of the queue is from people outside london. So we split the difference between the 2 figures to get 65% expected white proportion of the queue. Reality is around 95%. So way out of line

You lot are supposed to be polling experts and you’re really having a conversation based on a sample size of 12?

Edit - I see this one is based on 70. I watched the other night for 10-20 mins and saw loads of mix in terms of race, age, social class. I didn’t care to count.

You didnt care to count. That says it all. At some point when i have time i will do a bigger count of several hundred. Yes ethnic minorities are there but a very low percentage. I will also do a count of the younger people. If ethnic minorities are a similar proportion of the young there then we are not looking at an age related phenomena at all

Joan Armatrading was on Ch4 news yesterday and she sounded keen on the monarchy. Seems an age - because it IS an age - since her 70s heyday but even after all that time she's still black.

Anecdotes vs data my friend

It was data. She was on Ch4 news. I saw it.

kinabalu said:

thart said:

moonshine said:

thart said:

Endillion said:

thart said:

Ive just counted 70 people in latest queue livestream. Only 3 from ethnic minorities or less than 5%. The bigger the sample size the better

How many would you expect to see, assuming they were equally represented?

Ok white population of london likely 50% now but in uk as a whole likely 80%. Lets assume half of the queue is from people outside london. So we split the difference between the 2 figures to get 65% expected white proportion of the queue. Reality is around 95%. So way out of line

You lot are supposed to be polling experts and you’re really having a conversation based on a sample size of 12?

Edit - I see this one is based on 70. I watched the other night for 10-20 mins and saw loads of mix in terms of race, age, social class. I didn’t care to count.

You didnt care to count. That says it all. At some point when i have time i will do a bigger count of several hundred. Yes ethnic minorities are there but a very low percentage. I will also do a count of the younger people. If ethnic minorities are a similar proportion of the young there then we are not looking at an age related phenomena at all

Joan Armatrading was on Ch4 news yesterday and she sounded keen on the monarchy. Seems an age - because it IS an age - since her 70s heyday but even after all that time she's still black.

kinabalu said:

Selebian said:

kinabalu said:

thart said:

kinabalu said:

thart said:

moonshine said:

thart said:

Endillion said:

thart said:

Ive just counted 70 people in latest queue livestream. Only 3 from ethnic minorities or less than 5%. The bigger the sample size the better

How many would you expect to see, assuming they were equally represented?

Ok white population of london likely 50% now but in uk as a whole likely 80%. Lets assume half of the queue is from people outside london. So we split the difference between the 2 figures to get 65% expected white proportion of the queue. Reality is around 95%. So way out of line

You lot are supposed to be polling experts and you’re really having a conversation based on a sample size of 12?

Edit - I see this one is based on 70. I watched the other night for 10-20 mins and saw loads of mix in terms of race, age, social class. I didn’t care to count.

You didnt care to count. That says it all. At some point when i have time i will do a bigger count of several hundred. Yes ethnic minorities are there but a very low percentage. I will also do a count of the younger people. If ethnic minorities are a similar proportion of the young there then we are not looking at an age related phenomena at all

Joan Armatrading was on Ch4 news yesterday and she sounded keen on the monarchy. Seems an age - because it IS an age - since her 70s heyday but even after all that time she's still black.

Anecdotes vs data my friend

It was data. She was on Ch4 news. I saw it.

It's your lived experience, so I can't question it. Nonetheless, my lived experience is that 'data' may be stretching it a bit. 'Datum'?

Well let's say a single data point but of the very highest quality.

WhisperingOracle said:

About Joan Armatrading, there does seem to be a bit of a divide between younger and older people in Afro-Carribean and African communities. Ben Okri is another slightly older figure who's been making his broadly both liberal and monarchist views fairly clear this week.

It is extremely important for the Royals that they don't allow themselves to become totems of one side of a culture war against Harry and Meghan, as the Daily Mail and others would so dearly like, and they've made quite a bit of progress on that this week too.

thart said:

kinabalu said:

thart said:

kinabalu said:

thart said:

moonshine said:

thart said:

Endillion said:

thart said:

Ive just counted 70 people in latest queue livestream. Only 3 from ethnic minorities or less than 5%. The bigger the sample size the better

How many would you expect to see, assuming they were equally represented?

Ok white population of london likely 50% now but in uk as a whole likely 80%. Lets assume half of the queue is from people outside london. So we split the difference between the 2 figures to get 65% expected white proportion of the queue. Reality is around 95%. So way out of line

You lot are supposed to be polling experts and you’re really having a conversation based on a sample size of 12?

Edit - I see this one is based on 70. I watched the other night for 10-20 mins and saw loads of mix in terms of race, age, social class. I didn’t care to count.

You didnt care to count. That says it all. At some point when i have time i will do a bigger count of several hundred. Yes ethnic minorities are there but a very low percentage. I will also do a count of the younger people. If ethnic minorities are a similar proportion of the young there then we are not looking at an age related phenomena at all

Joan Armatrading was on Ch4 news yesterday and she sounded keen on the monarchy. Seems an age - because it IS an age - since her 70s heyday but even after all that time she's still black.

Anecdotes vs data my friend

It was data. She was on Ch4 news. I saw it.

Didnt you work high up in the city....i think you know the difference

Dura_Ace said:

Cookie said:

Why are Charles and Andrew's children princes and princesses, Edward's a lady and viscount, and Anne's nothing at all? The aristocracy is very puzzling.

She's an Admiral, General and an Air Chief Marshal which is a stunning military career by any standard.

I also note that she was wearing a Naval Good Conduct medal the other day. You get those after 15 years of service without disciplinary offence.That spot on my rack remains consipicuously bare.

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

There has been a small Truss bounce but very little evidence she has won Labour voters back.

In a sense she's where Keir Starmer was when he took over

Dynamo said:

Will H'Angus Zelensky be coming to the Windsor woman's funeral?

He may find himself caught between two stools: the hosts won't want him disrespecting the royal family by wearing army fatigues, and it won't look good for his home market if he wears mourning clothes when he rarely if ever wears them for all the Ukrainians who've died in the war.

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Scott_xP said:

🚨 🚨

The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell BY A THIRD to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to data from HMRC.

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/

Absolutely tragic. Small businesses that step up to become exporters tend to realise big productivity gains and are the backbone of any successful economy. Really dire news for future economic growth, wages, tax revenue etc.

The effects are now beginning to show through quite dramatically in the overall financial figures:

https://twitter.com/JamesRWithers/status/1570655306648293378

This is actually worse than I was expecting in 2016, and I fear there is more to come.

It is quite hard to reconcile those figures with this:
"Exports to EU countries were at £17.4 billion in July 2022, the highest level since records began in January 1997. Exports to non-EU countries were £1.5 billion lower than exports to EU countries in July 2022."
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/july2022#main-trends

These are nominal figures so you would expect them to rise, especially at a time of higher inflation, but even so. I am frankly wondering how reliable those statistics are.

The question are

- What are they counting?
- How?
- Have definitions changed.

One of those two sets of numbers is wrong - unless there has been a collapse in the number of exporters to the EU and a massive jump in the exports the remaining (ha!) exporters do.

RH1992 said:

williamglenn said:

The chief prosecutor of the ‘Lugansk People’s Republic’ has been killed by a bomb in his office.

He should have been more careful about where he stored his high explosives.

Driver said:

thart said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

fpt

Random sample looking this minute at the live stream (for @thart if he's still with us).

Asian woman
White bloke (a rev as it turns out)
White couple
White woman
White woman
White woman
White woman
White bloke
White bloke
White woman
White woman

OK I am prepared to say that the queue to pay respect is pretty white.

Don't like this double line business either. Would be well stressed if I was on the outer line.

Anyway, enough with queues.

11 out of 12 white, 91%. National total is 86% so not ridiculously out of line, if you'll forgive the pun. Especially considering that the queue almost certainly skews older than the population as a whole.

86% was at the 2011 census. Net migration has average around 300000 a year since. Thats about 3,300,000 extra ethnic minorities over 11 years. That accounts to an extra 5%. So now likely around 81% white british. And of course London much lower. So well out of line

I quoted white, not white British (which is indeed around 81% on the source I used). Also people will have travelled from outside of London, and some will be tourists.

All in all, the sample quoted isn't enough to legitimately try divisive race-baiting nonsense.

ydoethur said:

ExiledInScotland said:

jamesdoyle said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue

It's only 100 days until Die Hard.

But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.

NerysHughes said:

Cookie said:

NerysHughes said:

Cookie said:

NerysHughes said:

Very surprising result, was it local issues?

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1570697210496524289?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Labour have had an absolute kicking in Bolton in recent years. Labour councillors are held in particularly low regard. One of the Runworth Labour councillors defected to the Conservatives a couple of years back.
This is a pretty deprived ward, and very heavily Asian.

For the tories to go from 11% to 55% Labour must be doing a King Herod. That must be a record for a Lab to Tory swing in recent years

I must admit, I don't know exactly why Labour are so unpopular. They're viewed as ineffective and having taken their vote for granted; the town centre is run down, and the Greater Manchester Spatial Framework is somewhat controversial - but none of this seems to amount to the revulsion with which they now seem to be treated.
Andrew Teale - who is a Boltonian - was informative on the subject yesterday, but it still doesn't seem to amount to what you would expect for a turnaround of this scale: https://medium.com/britainelects/previewing-the-elections-of-15th-september-2022-2b35ae4f255b

It is an interesting read, and it just shows how things can change, in 2016, the author said that this ward was one of the most secure Labour wards in the Country and now the Tories have won it, despite the national poll picture.

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

thart said:

moonshine said:

thart said:

Endillion said:

thart said:

Ive just counted 70 people in latest queue livestream. Only 3 from ethnic minorities or less than 5%. The bigger the sample size the better

How many would you expect to see, assuming they were equally represented?

Ok white population of london likely 50% now but in uk as a whole likely 80%. Lets assume half of the queue is from people outside london. So we split the difference between the 2 figures to get 65% expected white proportion of the queue. Reality is around 95%. So way out of line

You lot are supposed to be polling experts and you’re really having a conversation based on a sample size of 12?

Edit - I see this one is based on 70. I watched the other night for 10-20 mins and saw loads of mix in terms of race, age, social class. I didn’t care to count.

You didnt care to count. That says it all. At some point when i have time i will do a bigger count of several hundred. Yes ethnic minorities are there but a very low percentage. I will also do a count of the younger people. If ethnic minorities are a similar proportion of the young there then we are not looking at an age related phenomena at all

Joan Armatrading was on Ch4 news yesterday and she sounded keen on the monarchy. Seems an age - because it IS an age - since her 70s heyday but even after all that time she's still black.

I would expect her to show some emotion at this time.

Driver said:

thart said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

fpt

Random sample looking this minute at the live stream (for @thart if he's still with us).

Asian woman
White bloke (a rev as it turns out)
White couple
White woman
White woman
White woman
White woman
White bloke
White bloke
White woman
White woman

OK I am prepared to say that the queue to pay respect is pretty white.

Don't like this double line business either. Would be well stressed if I was on the outer line.

Anyway, enough with queues.

11 out of 12 white, 91%. National total is 86% so not ridiculously out of line, if you'll forgive the pun. Especially considering that the queue almost certainly skews older than the population as a whole.

86% was at the 2011 census. Net migration has average around 300000 a year since. Thats about 3,300,000 extra ethnic minorities over 11 years. That accounts to an extra 5%. So now likely around 81% white british. And of course London much lower. So well out of line

I quoted white, not white British (which is indeed around 81% on the source I used). Also people will have travelled from outside of London, and some will be tourists.

All in all, the sample quoted isn't enough to legitimately try divisive race-baiting nonsense.

ydoethur said:

RH1992 said:

williamglenn said:

The chief prosecutor of the ‘Lugansk People’s Republic’ has been killed by a bomb in his office.

He should have been more careful about where he stored his high explosives.

'Look, when I said I wanted a good bang in my office, that wasn't what I meant!'

Leon said:

Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

Check this

https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

WhisperingOracle said:

Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

"Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

ExiledInScotland said:

jamesdoyle said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue

It's only 100 days until Die Hard.

But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.

That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?

WhisperingOracle said:

About Joan Armatrading, there does seem to be a bit of a divide between younger and older people in Afro-Carribean and African communities. Ben Okri is another slightly older figure who's been making his broadly both liberal and monarchist views fairly clear this week.

It is extremely important for the Royals that they don't allow themselves to become totems of one side of a culture war against Harry and Meghan, as the Daily Mail and others would so dearly like, and they've made quite a bit of progress on that this week too.

Endillion said:

thart said:

Driver said:

thart said:

Driver said:

TOPPING said:

fpt

Random sample looking this minute at the live stream (for @thart if he's still with us).

Asian woman
White bloke (a rev as it turns out)
White couple
White woman
White woman
White woman
White woman
White bloke
White bloke
White woman
White woman

OK I am prepared to say that the queue to pay respect is pretty white.

Don't like this double line business either. Would be well stressed if I was on the outer line.

Anyway, enough with queues.

11 out of 12 white, 91%. National total is 86% so not ridiculously out of line, if you'll forgive the pun. Especially considering that the queue almost certainly skews older than the population as a whole.

86% was at the 2011 census. Net migration has average around 300000 a year since. Thats about 3,300,000 extra ethnic minorities over 11 years. That accounts to an extra 5%. So now likely around 81% white british. And of course London much lower. So well out of line

I quoted white, not white British (which is indeed around 81% on the source I used). Also people will have travelled from outside of London, and some will be tourists.

All in all, the sample quoted isn't enough to legitimately try divisive race-baiting nonsense.

The point i am making is there is less support for the monarchy amongst ethnic minorities. Polls show this as do the mainly white crowds in London. The bbc in its coverage is i think being disrespectful to ethnic minorities by acting as if this is the white Britain of the 1950s....which has thankfully long gone

Support for the monarchy skews old, ethnic minorities in the UK currently skew young... so at least partially a confounding effect?

thart said:

Uk retail sales down 5.4 % vs a year ago. Bad economic data seeping in now. Truss is a dead woman walking

IshmaelZ said:

Dynamo said:

Will H'Angus Zelensky be coming to the Windsor woman's funeral?

He may find himself caught between two stools: the hosts won't want him disrespecting the royal family by wearing army fatigues, and it won't look good for his home market if he wears mourning clothes when he rarely if ever wears them for all the Ukrainians who've died in the war.

The edginess is strong in this one. I imagine he would be entirely welcome in army fatigues, and I don't think it is usual in time of war for leaders to wear mourning. Got any evidence?

jamesdoyle said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

"Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.

wooliedyed said:

The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

ExiledInScotland said:

jamesdoyle said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue

It's only 100 days until Die Hard.

But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.

That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?

He is descended via Robert's daughter and then James' daughter and granddaughter, with a further two breaks in the 'direct' line in 1901 and of course, now.

So yes, although he can trace his line back to Robert, it isn't 'direct' in dynastic terms and he isn't considered a Bruce.

Unless you also want to consider him a member of the House of Wessex.

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

ExiledInScotland said:

jamesdoyle said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue

It's only 100 days until Die Hard.

But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.

That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?

He is descended via Robert's daughter and then James' daughter and granddaughter, with a further two breaks in the 'direct' line in 1901 and of course, now.

So yes, although he can trace his line back to Robert, it isn't 'direct' in dynastic terms and he isn't considered a Bruce.

Unless you also want to consider him a member of the House of Wessex.