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The US Midterms are looking more challenging for the GOP – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Appalling individual. Carlson too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited September 2022
    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

    Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue
    It's only 100 days until Die Hard.
    But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.
    That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?
    He is descended via Robert's daughter and then James' daughter and granddaughter, with a further two breaks in the 'direct' line in 1901 and of course, now.

    So yes, although he can trace his line back to Robert, it isn't 'direct' in dynastic terms and he isn't considered a Bruce.

    Unless you also want to consider him a member of the House of Wessex.
    Nah, that's Edward, isn't it? :wink:
    You can say it Severn times but it will not be true.

    Edit - incidentally you threw me there. As we'd been talking about Bruces I thought for a moment you meant Edward I!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    ydoethur said:

    The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

    I can just imagine Michael Komor and Andy John setting things up:

    'Right. 1) Is the table big enough? 2) Have we checked the pens?

    The rest will take care of itself.'
    I did wonder if when Camilla reached to take it from him he wasnt going to say 'get your own fucking pen for Christ's sake!'
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

    Maturing at a rate of knots, isn't he?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    SWITCHED ON JUST NOW BREAKING NEWS:

    Immediately on screen: one white bloke, two black blokes.

    67% black constitution of the queue.

    They have the whip hand.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

    Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue
    It's only 100 days until Die Hard.
    But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.
    That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?
    He is descended via Robert's daughter and then James' daughter and granddaughter, with a further two breaks in the 'direct' line in 1901 and of course, now.

    So yes, although he can trace his line back to Robert, it isn't 'direct' in dynastic terms and he isn't considered a Bruce.

    Unless you also want to consider him a member of the House of Wessex.
    HYUFD was saying the other day that KCIII was infallibly a Scot because he was descended from Marie Stuart. So on the same logic he is infallibly also a Stewart, and therefore a Bruce - but also, as you say, a Wessex -wotsit, and a Dutchman, and a Greek, and so on and so forth.

    But in reality we are getting into some very small fractions here.
    Hyufd says lots of things. Not all of them are correct.

    It would be funny though if Charles decided to overturn his mother's (and Churchill's) earlier decision on the dynastic name and went for the House of Edinburgh.

    More logical as well.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Driver said:

    thart said:

    Driver said:

    thart said:

    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Random sample looking this minute at the live stream (for @thart if he's still with us).

    Asian woman
    White bloke (a rev as it turns out)
    White couple
    White woman
    White woman
    White woman
    White woman
    White bloke
    White bloke
    White woman
    White woman

    OK I am prepared to say that the queue to pay respect is pretty white.

    Don't like this double line business either. Would be well stressed if I was on the outer line.

    Anyway, enough with queues.

    11 out of 12 white, 91%. National total is 86% so not ridiculously out of line, if you'll forgive the pun. Especially considering that the queue almost certainly skews older than the population as a whole.
    86% was at the 2011 census. Net migration has average around 300000 a year since. Thats about 3,300,000 extra ethnic minorities over 11 years. That accounts to an extra 5%. So now likely around 81% white british. And of course London much lower. So well out of line
    I quoted white, not white British (which is indeed around 81% on the source I used). Also people will have travelled from outside of London, and some will be tourists.

    All in all, the sample quoted isn't enough to legitimately try divisive race-baiting nonsense.
    The point i am making is there is less support for the monarchy amongst ethnic minorities.
    Yes, divisive race-baiting.
    If it is true, why is it divisive race-baiting, rather than just an interesting and important fact?
  • thartthart Posts: 139
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Appalling individual. Carlson too.
    Thats not nice. I love Leons reports from the front lines at Seville
  • kinabalu said:

    The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

    Maturing at a rate of knots, isn't he?
    He took his own today
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    thart said:

    kinabalu said:

    thart said:

    moonshine said:

    thart said:

    Endillion said:

    thart said:

    Ive just counted 70 people in latest queue livestream. Only 3 from ethnic minorities or less than 5%. The bigger the sample size the better

    How many would you expect to see, assuming they were equally represented?
    Ok white population of london likely 50% now but in uk as a whole likely 80%. Lets assume half of the queue is from people outside london. So we split the difference between the 2 figures to get 65% expected white proportion of the queue. Reality is around 95%. So way out of line
    You lot are supposed to be polling experts and you’re really having a conversation based on a sample size of 12?

    Edit - I see this one is based on 70. I watched the other night for 10-20 mins and saw loads of mix in terms of race, age, social class. I didn’t care to count.

    You didnt care to count. That says it all. At some point when i have time i will do a bigger count of several hundred. Yes ethnic minorities are there but a very low percentage. I will also do a count of the younger people. If ethnic minorities are a similar proportion of the young there then we are not looking at an age related phenomena at all
    Joan Armatrading was on Ch4 news yesterday and she sounded keen on the monarchy. Seems an age - because it IS an age - since her 70s heyday but even after all that time she's still black.
    Anecdotes vs data my friend
    It was data. She was on Ch4 news. I saw it.
    It's your lived experience, so I can't question it. Nonetheless, my lived experience is that 'data' may be stretching it a bit. 'Datum'? :wink:
    Well let's say a single data point but of the very highest quality.
    Is My Myself I data or datum?
    I just don't do "datum" tbh Captain. It sounds finickety and wrong.
    But finickety doesn't sound finickety is that right?
    No, that sounds fine. In fact I like it.

    Also, apols for not getting your little Joan joke. Duh me.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318
    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    Ben Okri = James Joyce, or Marcel Proust

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited September 2022

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
  • thartthart Posts: 139

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
  • I can't believe that nobody has come up with "we should judge a queue not by the colour of its skin, but by the content of its character" yet.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    What's this "H'Angus" business?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    I can't believe that nobody has come up with "we should judge a queue not by the colour of its skin, but by the content of its character" yet.

    Fortunately, we have you to provide us with queue cards.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    I can't believe that nobody has come up with "we should judge a queue not by the colour of its skin, but by the content of its character" yet.

    Character of its content surely? Or am I missing something?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited September 2022
    FPT:
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is Lake Como anywhere near Milan? I've been there for a couple of days in 2017.

    Yes. Como, the city (which is also lovely btw) is 50km north of Milan and at the southern end of one leg of Lake Como.

    I think next time we go to Lake Como we will stay in Como itself as there looked to be lots of see and you can easily get boats up the lake to any most of the lakeside villages.
    So long as you can afford to stay in a quiet spot by the lakeside. The town itself isn’t particularly attractive and is traffic-choked both in the centre and on most roads in and out.
    I just wanted to correct this. I can't speak for the roads in and out of Como town (we visited by boat) but the centre, the old Roman town, is almost entirely pedestrianised, traffic-free, and lovely to stroll around in. Or at least it was last week.

    (And yes that's an Oxford comma, so up yours Coffey!)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    2 nuggets from last nights locals - Reform UK managed 0.8% in Bolton, when they stand, they fail
    Compare to Sussex where the OMRLP managed 5%, and beat the Greens.
    Reform are an irrelevance and that 5% odd they sometimes are getting to in polling will go somewhere......
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

    Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue
    It's only 100 days until Die Hard.
    But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.
    That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?
    He is descended via Robert's daughter and then James' daughter and granddaughter, with a further two breaks in the 'direct' line in 1901 and of course, now.

    So yes, although he can trace his line back to Robert, it isn't 'direct' in dynastic terms and he isn't considered a Bruce.

    Unless you also want to consider him a member of the House of Wessex.
    Nah, that's Edward, isn't it? :wink:
    You can say it Severn times but it will not be true.

    Edit - incidentally you threw me there. As we'd been talking about Bruces I thought for a moment you meant Edward I!
    I first put 'his brother', then remembered there's also the other one we don't talk about in polite society.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    FPT:

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is Lake Como anywhere near Milan? I've been there for a couple of days in 2017.

    Yes. Como, the city (which is also lovely btw) is 50km north of Milan and at the southern end of one leg of Lake Como.

    I think next time we go to Lake Como we will stay in Como itself as there looked to be lots of see and you can easily get boats up the lake to any most of the lakeside villages.
    So long as you can afford to stay in a quiet spot by the lakeside. The town itself isn’t particularly attractive and is traffic-choked both in the centre and on most roads in and out.
    I just wanted to correct this. I can't speak for the roads in and out of Como town (we visited by boat) but the centre, the old Roman town, is almost entirely pedestrianised, traffic-free, and lovely to stroll around in. Or at least it was last week.

    (And yes that's an Oxford comma, so up yours Coffey!)
    Do I remember there being a surfeit of Gucci-type shops including Gucci shops, tho? Or is that Lake Como (and how is it different)?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    kinabalu said:

    The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

    Maturing at a rate of knots, isn't he?
    He took his own today
    I am no royalist, far from it, but I sympathise with Charles over the pen thing.

    In this day and age why would anyone use a fountain pen? I mean the clue is in the title: expect to be sprayed in ink.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    kinabalu said:

    The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

    Maturing at a rate of knots, isn't he?
    He took his own today
    I am no royalist, far from it, but I sympathise with Charles over the pen thing.

    In this day and age why would anyone use a fountain pen? I mean the clue is in the title: expect to be sprayed in ink.
    I can't imagine that Charles uses anything other than a fountain pen - he's a traditionalist. Biro is far too modern.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,075
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

    Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue
    It's only 100 days until Die Hard.
    But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.
    That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?
    He is descended via Robert's daughter and then James' daughter and granddaughter, with a further two breaks in the 'direct' line in 1901 and of course, now.

    So yes, although he can trace his line back to Robert, it isn't 'direct' in dynastic terms and he isn't considered a Bruce.

    Unless you also want to consider him a member of the House of Wessex.
    HYUFD was saying the other day that KCIII was infallibly a Scot because he was descended from Marie Stuart. So on the same logic he is infallibly also a Stewart, and therefore a Bruce - but also, as you say, a Wessex -wotsit, and a Dutchman, and a Greek, and so on and so forth.

    But in reality we are getting into some very small fractions here.
    Hyufd says lots of things. Not all of them are correct.

    It would be funny though if Charles decided to overturn his mother's (and Churchill's) earlier decision on the dynastic name and went for the House of Edinburgh.

    More logical as well.
    Charles is very Danish through his Dad and a bit Danish through his Mum. He is more Danish than any of these other suggestions. I think we should all recognise and celebrate his Danishness by… umm… building Lego models and eating bacon?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    kinabalu said:

    What's this "H'Angus" business?

    Hartlepool simian of fame, I presume you know, but the link with Prez Zelenskii escapes me too. So I would welcome elucidation too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kinabalu said:

    The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

    Maturing at a rate of knots, isn't he?
    He took his own today
    I am no royalist, far from it, but I sympathise with Charles over the pen thing.

    In this day and age why would anyone use a fountain pen? I mean the clue is in the title: expect to be sprayed in ink.
    So stipulate a biro, or bring your own.
  • kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Appalling individual. Carlson too.
    I'm so glad that cheerleading Vlad and his war aren't cancellable activities, a triumph for common sense.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318
    thart said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Yes interesting. Would be rather like moving a bunch of asylum seekers to Hampstead
    Carlson has the second most watched show on US cable news. He is a pivotal media figure, and will be important in the POTUS elex

    That said, he only gets 3.2m viewers, which is fairly pitiful given the size of the USA, indeed the viewer figures for all cable news are eye-openingly low

    The top ten are all Fox, apart from one, Rachel Maddow, at 9


    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-top-rated-cable-news-shows-for-q2-2022/510090/

    The highest rated CNN news show is Anderson Cooper. He gets 767,000 viewers. It's TINY. He probably gets fewer viewers than GB News


    Where, then, are Americans getting their news?!

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

    Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue
    It's only 100 days until Die Hard.
    But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.
    That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?
    He is descended via Robert's daughter and then James' daughter and granddaughter, with a further two breaks in the 'direct' line in 1901 and of course, now.

    So yes, although he can trace his line back to Robert, it isn't 'direct' in dynastic terms and he isn't considered a Bruce.

    Unless you also want to consider him a member of the House of Wessex.
    HYUFD was saying the other day that KCIII was infallibly a Scot because he was descended from Marie Stuart. So on the same logic he is infallibly also a Stewart, and therefore a Bruce - but also, as you say, a Wessex -wotsit, and a Dutchman, and a Greek, and so on and so forth.

    But in reality we are getting into some very small fractions here.
    Hyufd says lots of things. Not all of them are correct.

    It would be funny though if Charles decided to overturn his mother's (and Churchill's) earlier decision on the dynastic name and went for the House of Edinburgh.

    More logical as well.
    Charles is very Danish through his Dad and a bit Danish through his Mum. He is more Danish than any of these other suggestions. I think we should all recognise and celebrate his Danishness by… umm… building Lego models and eating bacon?
    In every village and Hamlet of this land?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    edited September 2022

    2 nuggets from last nights locals - Reform UK managed 0.8% in Bolton, when they stand, they fail
    Compare to Sussex where the OMRLP managed 5%, and beat the Greens.
    Reform are an irrelevance and that 5% odd they sometimes are getting to in polling will go somewhere......

    Funny, then,. the tories are adopting so many of Reform's policies. Hard tax cuts, fracking, deregulation. Tice has been banging on about all of the above for months.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,075
    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Removing the cap on banker bonuses isn’t the only thing the Government has done. They’ve also removed the ban on fracking, which is surely almost but not quite as unpopular…
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

    Maturing at a rate of knots, isn't he?
    He took his own today
    I am no royalist, far from it, but I sympathise with Charles over the pen thing.

    In this day and age why would anyone use a fountain pen? I mean the clue is in the title: expect to be sprayed in ink.
    So stipulate a biro, or bring your own.
    Sounds like he has today.

    Man who just lost his mother forgets to specify a non-leaking pen. Hardly damning.
  • kinabalu said:

    The King gets through a pen thing unenraged!

    Maturing at a rate of knots, isn't he?
    He took his own today
    I am no royalist, far from it, but I sympathise with Charles over the pen thing.

    In this day and age why would anyone use a fountain pen? I mean the clue is in the title: expect to be sprayed in ink.
    He did use a fountain pen unscrewing it, signing and giving it to Camilla, before returning it to his pocket

    Sky even showed the signatures
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. xP, surely it should be called: Queue II - Queue Harder ?

    Next you'll be saying it's a Christmas Queue
    It's only 100 days until Die Hard.
    But it's a long while since a Bruce was on the throne.
    That's odd. Isn't KCIII a direct descendant of the Bruce, via James I, and James VI? Or is there something we ought to know about?
    He is descended via Robert's daughter and then James' daughter and granddaughter, with a further two breaks in the 'direct' line in 1901 and of course, now.

    So yes, although he can trace his line back to Robert, it isn't 'direct' in dynastic terms and he isn't considered a Bruce.

    Unless you also want to consider him a member of the House of Wessex.
    Nah, that's Edward, isn't it? :wink:
    You can say it Severn times but it will not be true.

    Edit - incidentally you threw me there. As we'd been talking about Bruces I thought for a moment you meant Edward I!
    I first put 'his brother', then remembered there's also the other one we don't talk about in polite society.
    Well, that came in Andy for tripping me up.

    On a slightly related subject, I am glad to see Charles has said Harry should be allowed to wear army uniform. I know he gave up his position voluntarily and so on, but it still jarred a bit that the only two people not in uniform in that cortège were him and Andrew, whom he is not remotely comparable too, and who were also the only ones to serve in combat.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Leon said:

    thart said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Yes interesting. Would be rather like moving a bunch of asylum seekers to Hampstead
    Carlson has the second most watched show on US cable news. He is a pivotal media figure, and will be important in the POTUS elex

    That said, he only gets 3.2m viewers, which is fairly pitiful given the size of the USA, indeed the viewer figures for all cable news are eye-openingly low

    The top ten are all Fox, apart from one, Rachel Maddow, at 9


    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-top-rated-cable-news-shows-for-q2-2022/510090/

    The highest rated CNN news show is Anderson Cooper. He gets 767,000 viewers. It's TINY. He probably gets fewer viewers than GB News


    Where, then, are Americans getting their news?!

    Not from cable?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,721
    edited September 2022
    Interesting thread on the DragonBear relationship between Putin and Xi:

    https://twitter.com/vtchakarova/status/1570443922450817026
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Leon
    A couple of weeks ago you mentioned a particular kind of lightbulb that was useful for reducing SAD. Are you in a position to recommend any particular brand?
    Search Amazon for SAD light and you'll get dozens of hits all offering 10000 lux which seems to be the standard. I have used one for 2 winters. Dunno how effective they are but for what they cost, worth a try.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Scott_xP said:

    This is interesting from @johnmcternan and changes my perspective on the bonus uncapping story a little https://unherd.com/2022/09/has-liz-truss-trapped-labour/ https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1570686716570406913/photo/1

    What holds us back on growth are poor productivity and a lack of public and private investment.

    How does scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses help with that?

    All for sustainable long-term growth. A short-term boomlet which does nothing to address underlying issues: no.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    FPT:

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is Lake Como anywhere near Milan? I've been there for a couple of days in 2017.

    Yes. Como, the city (which is also lovely btw) is 50km north of Milan and at the southern end of one leg of Lake Como.

    I think next time we go to Lake Como we will stay in Como itself as there looked to be lots of see and you can easily get boats up the lake to any most of the lakeside villages.
    So long as you can afford to stay in a quiet spot by the lakeside. The town itself isn’t particularly attractive and is traffic-choked both in the centre and on most roads in and out.
    I just wanted to correct this. I can't speak for the roads in and out of Como town (we visited by boat) but the centre, the old Roman town, is almost entirely pedestrianised, traffic-free, and lovely to stroll around in. Or at least it was last week.

    (And yes that's an Oxford comma, so up yours Coffey!)
    Fair enough. But avoid the modern, commercial centre, as well as the main roads, which do have cheaper accommodation that may tempt the unwary.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    What's this "H'Angus" business?

    Hartlepool simian of fame, I presume you know, but the link with Prez Zelenskii escapes me too. So I would welcome elucidation too.
    He has clarified that it is because they were both joke/celebrity/novelty/celebrity (delete according to preference) candidates when first elected.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Appalling individual. Carlson too.
    I'm so glad that cheerleading Vlad and his war aren't cancellable activities, a triumph for common sense.
    The very opposite even. Hand that guy a megaphone!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    What's this "H'Angus" business?

    Hartlepool simian of fame, I presume you know, but the link with Prez Zelenskii escapes me too. So I would welcome elucidation too.
    He has clarified that it is because they were both joke/celebrity/novelty/celebrity (delete according to preference) candidates when first elected.
    Speaking of which I can't wait for "HMQs" Gogglebox.
  • thartthart Posts: 139
    Leon said:

    thart said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Yes interesting. Would be rather like moving a bunch of asylum seekers to Hampstead
    Carlson has the second most watched show on US cable news. He is a pivotal media figure, and will be important in the POTUS elex

    That said, he only gets 3.2m viewers, which is fairly pitiful given the size of the USA, indeed the viewer figures for all cable news are eye-openingly low

    The top ten are all Fox, apart from one, Rachel Maddow, at 9


    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-top-rated-cable-news-shows-for-q2-2022/510090/

    The highest rated CNN news show is Anderson Cooper. He gets 767,000 viewers. It's TINY. He probably gets fewer viewers than GB News


    Where, then, are Americans getting their news?!

    Interesting that 9 of top 10 are Fox. Clearly a backlash against woke i think
  • thart said:

    Endillion said:

    thart said:

    Uk retail sales down 5.4 % vs a year ago. Bad economic data seeping in now. Truss is a dead woman walking

    And what's the yoy figure after you smooth out the impact of just having come out of lockdown this time last year, thus releasing a pent-up wave of delayed spending?
    Well if you think people are spending freely at the moment outside the top 10 % i have a bridge to sell you
    Someone managed to sell it to you in the first place then?
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,134


    I can't imagine that Charles uses anything other than a fountain pen - he's a traditionalist. Biro is far too modern.

    Even if you do like modern, biros are just straight-up bad as writing instruments compared to a good disposable gel ink pen, which writes far more smoothly and reliably. The only thing biros have going for them is that they are the cheapest of the cheap, and then you get what you pay for...
  • thartthart Posts: 139
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is interesting from @johnmcternan and changes my perspective on the bonus uncapping story a little https://unherd.com/2022/09/has-liz-truss-trapped-labour/ https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1570686716570406913/photo/1

    What holds us back on growth are poor productivity and a lack of public and private investment.

    How does scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses help with that?

    All for sustainable long-term growth. A short-term boomlet which does nothing to address underlying issues: no.

    Truss only concern is winning the next election....i dont think shes bothered if she does long term damage
  • About Joan Armatrading, there does seem to be a bit of a divide between younger and older people in Afro-Carribean and African communities. Ben Okri is another slightly older figure who's been making his broadly both liberal and monarchist views fairly clear this week.

    It is extremely important for the Royals that they don't allow themselves to become totems of one side of a culture war against Harry and Meghan, as the Daily Mail and others would so dearly like, and they've made quite a bit of progress on that this week too.

    The Royal Family needs to be careful not to get tied to the Conservative Party. Having the Prime Minister trail round the country with the new King is one danger point, and some recent guest lists have looked a tad lopsided.
    I understood that had now been abandoned (Truss hanging on the Royal coattails)
  • Leon said:

    thart said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Yes interesting. Would be rather like moving a bunch of asylum seekers to Hampstead
    Carlson has the second most watched show on US cable news. He is a pivotal media figure, and will be important in the POTUS elex

    That said, he only gets 3.2m viewers, which is fairly pitiful given the size of the USA, indeed the viewer figures for all cable news are eye-openingly low

    The top ten are all Fox, apart from one, Rachel Maddow, at 9


    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-top-rated-cable-news-shows-for-q2-2022/510090/

    The highest rated CNN news show is Anderson Cooper. He gets 767,000 viewers. It's TINY. He probably gets fewer viewers than GB News


    Where, then, are Americans getting their news?!

    Not from cable?
    Americans get news? Seems unlikely half of them do given their level of understanding of their own elections.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,989
    edited September 2022
    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    What's this "H'Angus" business?

    Hartlepool simian of fame, I presume you know, but the link with Prez Zelenskii escapes me too. So I would welcome elucidation too.
    He has clarified that it is because they were both joke/celebrity/novelty/celebrity (delete according to preference) candidates when first elected.
    Though of course he wasn't, he ran on a very serious anti-corruption platform.

    Though I can well understand why our Russian friend would consider democracy, electing people and being opposed to corruption would all be alien concepts.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Driver said:

    Very sad the Queen has died but I don't care anymore, sorry

    You cared enough to comment, completely off topic on the thread.
    Off topic.

    Rumour has it that the Queen had a wicked sense of humour.

    This would seem to be confirmed by even in death, her trolling of her most detested (even more so, it is alleged than Blair) Prime Minister by ensuring she soldiered on until he was no longer PM. Johnson had prepared his best ever eulogy speech, a speech few listened to, and no one now cares about. He had selected and practiced his funereal reading, one that he will never read. He must be so downhearted.

    HMQ is smiling!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318
    Ben Okri is a stupid person's idea of what a fine writer should sound like

  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Leon said:

    thart said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Yes interesting. Would be rather like moving a bunch of asylum seekers to Hampstead
    Carlson has the second most watched show on US cable news. He is a pivotal media figure, and will be important in the POTUS elex

    That said, he only gets 3.2m viewers, which is fairly pitiful given the size of the USA, indeed the viewer figures for all cable news are eye-openingly low

    The top ten are all Fox, apart from one, Rachel Maddow, at 9


    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-top-rated-cable-news-shows-for-q2-2022/510090/

    The highest rated CNN news show is Anderson Cooper. He gets 767,000 viewers. It's TINY. He probably gets fewer viewers than GB News


    Where, then, are Americans getting their news?!

    Isn't there a the second tier of local state wide/City-wide news shows that the networks operate?

    The Ron Burgundy tier, as we might call it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
  • Vance holds 4-point lead over Ryan in Ohio Senate race: poll

    The Hill
  • IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Leon
    A couple of weeks ago you mentioned a particular kind of lightbulb that was useful for reducing SAD. Are you in a position to recommend any particular brand?
    Search Amazon for SAD light and you'll get dozens of hits all offering 10000 lux which seems to be the standard. I have used one for 2 winters. Dunno how effective they are but for what they cost, worth a try.
    Lumie are v good.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    Ben Okri is a stupid person's idea of what a fine writer should sound like

    Interesting take. Jealous, much?
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318

    Leon said:

    thart said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Yes interesting. Would be rather like moving a bunch of asylum seekers to Hampstead
    Carlson has the second most watched show on US cable news. He is a pivotal media figure, and will be important in the POTUS elex

    That said, he only gets 3.2m viewers, which is fairly pitiful given the size of the USA, indeed the viewer figures for all cable news are eye-openingly low

    The top ten are all Fox, apart from one, Rachel Maddow, at 9


    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-top-rated-cable-news-shows-for-q2-2022/510090/

    The highest rated CNN news show is Anderson Cooper. He gets 767,000 viewers. It's TINY. He probably gets fewer viewers than GB News


    Where, then, are Americans getting their news?!

    Not from cable?
    Google says social media, especially Facebook. That's where 50%+ of Americans now get their news

    I wonder if that is still true (about FB), and even if it is true, the news has to be generated somewhere else. FB is merely the medium
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,075
    thart said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is interesting from @johnmcternan and changes my perspective on the bonus uncapping story a little https://unherd.com/2022/09/has-liz-truss-trapped-labour/ https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1570686716570406913/photo/1

    What holds us back on growth are poor productivity and a lack of public and private investment.

    How does scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses help with that?

    All for sustainable long-term growth. A short-term boomlet which does nothing to address underlying issues: no.

    Truss only concern is winning the next election....i dont think shes bothered if she does long term damage
    Truss is not acting as if her only concern is winning the next election. Allowing fracking and megabonuses for bankers are not electorally popular policies that are going to win her election. She appears to be acting out of ideological belief.
  • thartthart Posts: 139
    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    Indeed. Normally if employees earn excessive wages in a free market competituon will move in to drive wages down. However we live in a system where the BOE prints money and the investment banks are closest to the money printer. Hence the obscene salaries. Does anyone seriously think JRM is worth what he has earned
  • It'll be back to politics next week and it is going to be very serious stuff:


    Simon French
    @shjfrench
    ·
    2h
    Replying to @shjfrench

    In a longer term setting Sterling (broad, & vs USD) has been on a downward drift for 25Y but largely punctuated by two devaluation "events" (GFC & Brexit) when demand for Sterling assets took a structural downward move. Recent move looks more like dollar strength than a 3rd event

    This is not to say a 3rd event can't crystallise - certainly loose talk on playing hari-kiri with UK's macroeconomic framework (OBR, BoE, fiscal rules) is making foreign investors nervous - which is why next week is big: a mini Budget & eyes on BoE for signs of fiscal dominance

    https://twitter.com/shjfrench/status/1570702885020925952
  • thartthart Posts: 139

    thart said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is interesting from @johnmcternan and changes my perspective on the bonus uncapping story a little https://unherd.com/2022/09/has-liz-truss-trapped-labour/ https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1570686716570406913/photo/1

    What holds us back on growth are poor productivity and a lack of public and private investment.

    How does scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses help with that?

    All for sustainable long-term growth. A short-term boomlet which does nothing to address underlying issues: no.

    Truss only concern is winning the next election....i dont think shes bothered if she does long term damage
    Truss is not acting as if her only concern is winning the next election. Allowing fracking and megabonuses for bankers are not electorally popular policies that are going to win her election. She appears to be acting out of ideological belief.
    Thats even more frightening
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,075
    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    The high incomes of football players and pop stars may or may not be obscene, but they’ve never crashed the entire economy. The financial sector has. Ergo greater regulation is appropriate. The state effectively has to underwrite the finance sector, so the state gets to set the rules.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited September 2022
    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    What's this "H'Angus" business?

    Hartlepool simian of fame, I presume you know, but the link with Prez Zelenskii escapes me too. So I would welcome elucidation too.
    He has clarified that it is because they were both joke/celebrity/novelty/celebrity (delete according to preference) candidates when first elected.
    A stupid parallel though, because H'Angus was the performance, not the candidate. The candidate was Stuart Drummond.

    The equivalent in Ukraine would be a candidate running as Vasily Goloborodko.

    So the explanation is as risible and unconvincing as - well, most things from that poster.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    Yes, quite so: I know this phenom. Okri is a classic shelf decorator. Allegedly highbrow literature bought by decidedly middlebrow people like @Topping, who then mention that they've read him, quite a lot. As here

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    5% is great. I haven't done the math for mine.

    I find it very difficult to get through, these days, even the Times Saturday Review without being tempted.

    There are some that I purposely keep unread, waiting, as a treat at some point.

    I detest people who say "oh you should read this" as the motives are near-universal point-scoring but....I don't think anyone should go through life without reading Portrait of the Artist.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Leon said:

    thart said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Yes interesting. Would be rather like moving a bunch of asylum seekers to Hampstead
    Carlson has the second most watched show on US cable news. He is a pivotal media figure, and will be important in the POTUS elex

    That said, he only gets 3.2m viewers, which is fairly pitiful given the size of the USA, indeed the viewer figures for all cable news are eye-openingly low

    The top ten are all Fox, apart from one, Rachel Maddow, at 9


    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-top-rated-cable-news-shows-for-q2-2022/510090/

    The highest rated CNN news show is Anderson Cooper. He gets 767,000 viewers. It's TINY. He probably gets fewer viewers than GB News


    Where, then, are Americans getting their news?!

    Greg Gutfeld (1 and 6 on the list) used to live in the UK, working for lads mags. He wrote an amusing book about it:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lessons-Land-Pork-Scratchings-Miserable/dp/1847370667/

    He appears to have become less fun and more trumpy since.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    Yes, quite so: I know this phenom. Okri is a classic shelf decorator. Allegedly highbrow literature bought by decidedly middlebrow people like @Topping, who then mention that they've read him, quite a lot. As here

    LOL excellently catty!

    Loving it. I suppose for you middlebrow writing is a mountain you have yet to climb.
  • thart said:

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    Indeed. Normally if employees earn excessive wages in a free market competituon will move in to drive wages down. However we live in a system where the BOE prints money and the investment banks are closest to the money printer. Hence the obscene salaries. Does anyone seriously think JRM is worth what he has earned
    thart said:

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    Indeed. Normally if employees earn excessive wages in a free market competituon will move in to drive wages down. However we live in a system where the BOE prints money and the investment banks are closest to the money printer. Hence the obscene salaries. Does anyone seriously think JRM is worth what he has earned
    Does anyone think Lineker is worth what he earns

    @DavidL is right on this though it is not real best optics at present

    Apparently the BOE has endorsed the policy today
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    I use the Library Thing website to keep a track of my books. Currently just under 4000 of which I have read about 2/3rds. Like you, I try to read 100 books a year but rarely ever hit the target. Normally around 80-90. So I reckon that as long as I live a reasonably long life I still have plenty of time to finish all the books I own but have not yet read.
  • thart said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is interesting from @johnmcternan and changes my perspective on the bonus uncapping story a little https://unherd.com/2022/09/has-liz-truss-trapped-labour/ https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1570686716570406913/photo/1

    What holds us back on growth are poor productivity and a lack of public and private investment.

    How does scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses help with that?

    All for sustainable long-term growth. A short-term boomlet which does nothing to address underlying issues: no.

    Truss only concern is winning the next election....i dont think shes bothered if she does long term damage
    I agree but I don't see how the Banker's bonus move helps her in that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    Yes, quite so: I know this phenom. Okri is a classic shelf decorator. Allegedly highbrow literature bought by decidedly middlebrow people like @Topping, who then mention that they've read him, quite a lot. As here

    LOL excellently catty!

    Loving it. I suppose for you middlebrow writing is a mountain you have yet to climb.
    A coffee table book of "Photographs of lunches yet to be consumed" might work.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    edited September 2022

    thart said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is interesting from @johnmcternan and changes my perspective on the bonus uncapping story a little https://unherd.com/2022/09/has-liz-truss-trapped-labour/ https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1570686716570406913/photo/1

    What holds us back on growth are poor productivity and a lack of public and private investment.

    How does scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses help with that?

    All for sustainable long-term growth. A short-term boomlet which does nothing to address underlying issues: no.

    Truss only concern is winning the next election....i dont think shes bothered if she does long term damage
    Truss is not acting as if her only concern is winning the next election. Allowing fracking and megabonuses for bankers are not electorally popular policies that are going to win her election. She appears to be acting out of ideological belief.

    I am always amused at faux liberal concern for the fate of the conservatives. This is going to get them in so much trouble...!

    There are many collector's items on the site.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,154
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    Yes, quite so: I know this phenom. Okri is a classic shelf decorator. Allegedly highbrow literature bought by decidedly middlebrow people like @Topping, who then mention that they've read him, quite a lot. As here

    He's always suffered from this sort of label, but after I read a couple of his books I didn't agree. The key with him is just how mystically vivid his imagination is. It's out of step with a lot of current literature and thinking, but it can be very effective.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Leon
    A couple of weeks ago you mentioned a particular kind of lightbulb that was useful for reducing SAD. Are you in a position to recommend any particular brand?
    I don't believe that was me, TBH. I can't remember talking about these lamps for months

    That said, I did buy and use one during the wintry horror of lockdown 3, when I was in black despair for many reasons, and my SAD was overwhelming

    Did it help? Maybe. Not obviously

    But if you have a friend or relative with bad SAD it's probably worth a go

    The sovereign remedy is of course warm bright sunshine. A couple of weeks in the tropics. Just a fortnight can get me through the rest of the British winter. I always aim to do it in the middle of January, say 15-30th, when the winter seems endlessly cruel (I often do more than 2 weeks but I am talking bare minimum here)

    By the time you are home it is Feb 1 and - at least in southern England - you get the first tiny hint of winter's end. Maybe the odd slightly warmer day. The sun no longer sets at about half 3 (or so it feels). Then in mid Feb you get a definite turn, the sun can have strength on a clear day. Slowly you crawl back to sanity and light

    SAD is no laughing matter. For me it is grim, for some it is nightmarish (I have a couple of friends who go into catatonic depression)

    I do appreciate my remedy is expensive and impractical for many
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    kinabalu said:

    What's this "H'Angus" business?

    He was the mascot of Hartlepool United FC who got elected as the mayor of that benighted shit hole. It was the first place in the UK to have an Anne Summers next to an Early Learning Centre. It just saves time.

    I suspect Dynamo is rejecting the green t-shirt dialectic of the Prince of the Kievan Rus' and drawing a comparison with novelty candidates who inadvertently find themselves thrust into Great Events.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is interesting from @johnmcternan and changes my perspective on the bonus uncapping story a little https://unherd.com/2022/09/has-liz-truss-trapped-labour/ https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1570686716570406913/photo/1

    What holds us back on growth are poor productivity and a lack of public and private investment.

    How does scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses help with that?

    All for sustainable long-term growth. A short-term boomlet which does nothing to address underlying issues: no.

    Politically, the Unherd article (while typical of Unherd) is surely wrong. Polls show strong support for "government interference" in things like not allowing adverts of fatty stuff alongside kids' programmes. Uncapping bankers' bonuses definitely does fail the smell test when everyone's worried about the cost of living.

    I agree there's a case that splendid growth trumps everything and if we generally feel prosperous in 2024 then the Tories have a good chance. But does anyone really think that growth will suddenly explode as happy bankers get huge bonuses and instantly spend them in the shops and the benefits will have trickled down in two years' time?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    The high incomes of football players and pop stars may or may not be obscene, but they’ve never crashed the entire economy. The financial sector has. Ergo greater regulation is appropriate. The state effectively has to underwrite the finance sector, so the state gets to set the rules.

    I am not sure greater regulation is having the desired effect for the reasons I stated. Certainly most of the Basel 2 and 3 stuff has merely reduced competition in the sector and driven up the price of what remains. It has also made the supply of capital much more expensive given the capital ratios banks need to comply with. This has an adverse effect on growth.

    What I think became clear is that the ultimate guarantee of the BoE was a huge, hidden subsidy for the sector. And that the sector as a whole should be paying for it.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    edited September 2022

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    The high incomes of football players and pop stars may or may not be obscene, but they’ve never crashed the entire economy. The financial sector has. Ergo greater regulation is appropriate. The state effectively has to underwrite the finance sector, so the state gets to set the rules.

    No longer true. Every strategically important bank must issue certain amounts of debt that becomes equity if capital ratios dip below certain levels.

    This means that if banks get into trouble, they are effectively forgiven certain debt at the expense of the fund managers who own it. The latter take the losses.

    Those are the rules, now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    thart said:

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    Indeed. Normally if employees earn excessive wages in a free market competituon will move in to drive wages down. However we live in a system where the BOE prints money and the investment banks are closest to the money printer. Hence the obscene salaries. Does anyone seriously think JRM is worth what he has earned
    thart said:

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    Indeed. Normally if employees earn excessive wages in a free market competituon will move in to drive wages down. However we live in a system where the BOE prints money and the investment banks are closest to the money printer. Hence the obscene salaries. Does anyone seriously think JRM is worth what he has earned
    Does anyone think Lineker is worth what he earns

    @DavidL is right on this though it is not real best optics at present

    Apparently the BOE has endorsed the policy today
    What has that got to do with Lineker. He is an free agent, and if his employers including the BBC deem him worthy of his remuneration, good luck to him. You are a free market Conservative and it's a free market, good for him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    Yes, quite so: I know this phenom. Okri is a classic shelf decorator. Allegedly highbrow literature bought by decidedly middlebrow people like @Topping, who then mention that they've read him, quite a lot. As here

    LOL excellently catty!

    Loving it. I suppose for you middlebrow writing is a mountain you have yet to climb.
    I forgot to mention I really enjoyed your angry, wounded amour propre: when you failed to recognise Masaccio's Holy Trinity
  • thart said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is interesting from @johnmcternan and changes my perspective on the bonus uncapping story a little https://unherd.com/2022/09/has-liz-truss-trapped-labour/ https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1570686716570406913/photo/1

    What holds us back on growth are poor productivity and a lack of public and private investment.

    How does scrapping the cap on bankers' bonuses help with that?

    All for sustainable long-term growth. A short-term boomlet which does nothing to address underlying issues: no.

    Truss only concern is winning the next election....i dont think shes bothered if she does long term damage
    I agree but I don't see how the Banker's bonus move helps her in that.
    The best case (which the Ian Leslie piece someone linked to earlier points to) is that there's not much to be done, but fracking and freeing the City sound like the sort of things that might grow the economy... that she's making the right noises, even if they're futile. And there is a strand of politics that acts as if saying you want growth will make growth happen. A bit like the "name it and claim it" bits of evangelical Christianity.

    The worst case is that Truss and her Cabinet are pretty much all caught up in the bubble of low tax / low regulation / small state being the route to prosperity (IEA/TPA/ERG et al), and she actually believes this will work and be popular.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,075
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    The high incomes of football players and pop stars may or may not be obscene, but they’ve never crashed the entire economy. The financial sector has. Ergo greater regulation is appropriate. The state effectively has to underwrite the finance sector, so the state gets to set the rules.

    I am not sure greater regulation is having the desired effect for the reasons I stated. Certainly most of the Basel 2 and 3 stuff has merely reduced competition in the sector and driven up the price of what remains. It has also made the supply of capital much more expensive given the capital ratios banks need to comply with. This has an adverse effect on growth.

    What I think became clear is that the ultimate guarantee of the BoE was a huge, hidden subsidy for the sector. And that the sector as a whole should be paying for it.
    There’s a pretty clear pattern that reducing regulation leads to almighty crashes. But, sure, you should try and do the right regulation.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,075
    MISTY said:

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    The high incomes of football players and pop stars may or may not be obscene, but they’ve never crashed the entire economy. The financial sector has. Ergo greater regulation is appropriate. The state effectively has to underwrite the finance sector, so the state gets to set the rules.

    No longer true. Every strategically important bank must issue certain amounts of debt that becomes equity if capital ratios dip below certain levels.

    This means that if banks get into trouble, they are effectively forgiven certain debt at the expense of the fund managers who own it. The latter take the losses.

    Those are the rules, now.
    Yes, the rules imposed by Government, a form of regulation, that we should keep.

    And if the rules don’t work, which is always a possibility, it will still be the Government, i.e. all of us as taxpayers, who will have to pay up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    What's this "H'Angus" business?

    He was the mascot of Hartlepool United FC who got elected as the mayor of that benighted shit hole. It was the first place in the UK to have an Anne Summers next to an Early Learning Centre. It just saves time.

    I suspect Dynamo is rejecting the green t-shirt dialectic of the Prince of the Kievan Rus' and drawing a comparison with novelty candidates who inadvertently find themselves thrust into Great Events.
    If he were, Boris Johnson would be a much better parallel. A man who launched his career by being a TV comedian on satirical programmes.

    But there, without forgetting Zelensky has himself been linked to oligarchs and some dodgy dealing, the resemblance ends.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    The high incomes of football players and pop stars may or may not be obscene, but they’ve never crashed the entire economy. The financial sector has. Ergo greater regulation is appropriate. The state effectively has to underwrite the finance sector, so the state gets to set the rules.

    I am not sure greater regulation is having the desired effect for the reasons I stated. Certainly most of the Basel 2 and 3 stuff has merely reduced competition in the sector and driven up the price of what remains. It has also made the supply of capital much more expensive given the capital ratios banks need to comply with. This has an adverse effect on growth.

    What I think became clear is that the ultimate guarantee of the BoE was a huge, hidden subsidy for the sector. And that the sector as a whole should be paying for it.
    There’s a pretty clear pattern that reducing regulation leads to almighty crashes. But, sure, you should try and do the right regulation.

    What evidence do you have for that assertion? Banking was way more regulated in 2008 than in the wild west 1980s, for example but it was in the former period we saw the banking crash. There was a crash in 1987 but that was stock market driven.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    Yes, quite so: I know this phenom. Okri is a classic shelf decorator. Allegedly highbrow literature bought by decidedly middlebrow people like @Topping, who then mention that they've read him, quite a lot. As here

    LOL excellently catty!

    Loving it. I suppose for you middlebrow writing is a mountain you have yet to climb.
    I forgot to mention I really enjoyed your angry, wounded amour propre: when you failed to recognise Masaccio's Holy Trinity
    That whole you posting bits of art after you'd googled it was one of the funnier episodes of PB.

    @Leon:
    Randomly googles A N Other artist
    Posts picture by A N Other artist on PB
    Asks PB - "I bet you don't know what A N Other artist's favourite fruit was. I know. I know. I bet you don't know. Does anyone know? It's an apple. He loved apples."

    Like a cross between David Brent and Abigail's Party.
  • The fluting toned Mr Peterson fancies himself a dandy. He is not.
    I'll grudgingly give Burble a couple of points for style tho'.


  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    What's this "H'Angus" business?

    He was the mascot of Hartlepool United FC who got elected as the mayor of that benighted shit hole. It was the first place in the UK to have an Anne Summers next to an Early Learning Centre. It just saves time.

    I suspect Dynamo is rejecting the green t-shirt dialectic of the Prince of the Kievan Rus' and drawing a comparison with novelty candidates who inadvertently find themselves thrust into Great Events.
    Some of them do just fine, others are Boris Johnson. There have been stacks of hereditary monarchs who were spectacularly good at their jobs, so maybe how you got the gig is not so important. On current showing, being a TV comic seems to work better than murdering for the KGB.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    thart said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of race, as you are, Tucker Carlson - whatever you think of him - is extremely good at baiting the American Left on this subject (and others)

    Check this

    https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1570585089272053761?s=20&t=QaNTu_l1YSt0hBforg-kLw

    Some of it is genuinely funny, some brusque and crude - but still likely effective

    For the record, I abhor plenty of his views, especially his vile havering over Putin's war. But I can recognise powerful polemics, using humour

    Yes interesting. Would be rather like moving a bunch of asylum seekers to Hampstead
    Carlson has the second most watched show on US cable news. He is a pivotal media figure, and will be important in the POTUS elex

    That said, he only gets 3.2m viewers, which is fairly pitiful given the size of the USA, indeed the viewer figures for all cable news are eye-openingly low

    The top ten are all Fox, apart from one, Rachel Maddow, at 9


    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-top-rated-cable-news-shows-for-q2-2022/510090/

    The highest rated CNN news show is Anderson Cooper. He gets 767,000 viewers. It's TINY. He probably gets fewer viewers than GB News


    Where, then, are Americans getting their news?!

    Greg Gutfeld (1 and 6 on the list) used to live in the UK, working for lads mags. He wrote an amusing book about it:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lessons-Land-Pork-Scratchings-Miserable/dp/1847370667/

    He appears to have become less fun and more trumpy since.
    Good God, I know him! (or knew him)

    I had no idea he'd gone to America and found cable news fame. Fascinating
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    MISTY said:

    DavidL said:

    thart said:

    LAB: 40% (=)
    CON: 28% (=)
    LDM: 10% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (-1)
    RFM: 5% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via @PeoplePolling, 13 Sep.
    Changes w/ 7 Sep.

    No change with the new boys

    Conservatives are toast...removing cap on banker bonuses it an utterly appalling policy
    Why?
    Do we have a cap on the obscene wages of EPL players? Pop stars? Social Media influencers? No, we let the market decide. Those attacking the removal of the cap are hitting the wrong target. Why are skills in financial services, or the provision of financial services so valuable? It never used to be that way in the previous century. The people making profits from banks and finance were the shareholders, not the employees.

    I think the answer to this is, in part, well meaning regulation. The barriers to entry in the industry are now such that those in it have an oligarchal ability to extract excess profits. We need much more competition in the provision of such services so that price competitiveness is restored.
    The high incomes of football players and pop stars may or may not be obscene, but they’ve never crashed the entire economy. The financial sector has. Ergo greater regulation is appropriate. The state effectively has to underwrite the finance sector, so the state gets to set the rules.

    No longer true. Every strategically important bank must issue certain amounts of debt that becomes equity if capital ratios dip below certain levels.

    This means that if banks get into trouble, they are effectively forgiven certain debt at the expense of the fund managers who own it. The latter take the losses.

    Those are the rules, now.
    Yes, the rules imposed by Government, a form of regulation, that we should keep.

    And if the rules don’t work, which is always a possibility, it will still be the Government, i.e. all of us as taxpayers, who will have to pay up.
    The rules are actually agreed and imposed along internationally agreed lines I believe, as opposed to by any one government.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,960
    King Charles addressing the Senedd in Welsh
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    HYUFD said:

    King Charles addressing the Senedd in Welsh

    Da iawn.
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    Yes, quite so: I know this phenom. Okri is a classic shelf decorator. Allegedly highbrow literature bought by decidedly middlebrow people like @Topping, who then mention that they've read him, quite a lot. As here

    LOL excellently catty!

    Loving it. I suppose for you middlebrow writing is a mountain you have yet to climb.
    I forgot to mention I really enjoyed your angry, wounded amour propre: when you failed to recognise Masaccio's Holy Trinity
    That whole you posting bits of art after you'd googled it was one of the funnier episodes of PB.

    @Leon:
    Randomly googles A N Other artist
    Posts picture by A N Other artist on PB
    Asks PB - "I bet you don't know what A N Other artist's favourite fruit was. I know. I know. I bet you don't know. Does anyone know? It's an apple. He loved apples."

    Like a cross between David Brent and Abigail's Party.
    Fight! Fight! Fight!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,318
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    Yes, quite so: I know this phenom. Okri is a classic shelf decorator. Allegedly highbrow literature bought by decidedly middlebrow people like @Topping, who then mention that they've read him, quite a lot. As here

    LOL excellently catty!

    Loving it. I suppose for you middlebrow writing is a mountain you have yet to climb.
    I forgot to mention I really enjoyed your angry, wounded amour propre: when you failed to recognise Masaccio's Holy Trinity
    That whole you posting bits of art after you'd googled it was one of the funnier episodes of PB.

    @Leon:
    Randomly googles A N Other artist
    Posts picture by A N Other artist on PB
    Asks PB - "I bet you don't know what A N Other artist's favourite fruit was. I know. I know. I bet you don't know. Does anyone know? It's an apple. He loved apples."

    Like a cross between David Brent and Abigail's Party.
    You just did it again


  • New iPhone
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Re; Ben Okri, I haven't followed his latest works, but looking up I saw that he's got too recent books out - "the age of magic" and "the freedom artist". I agree with you that he's a good, richly imaginative writer.

    He wrote this quite nice piece about the Queen last week, which got very little exposure. I don't agree with everythng he says, but I think it's broadly good , and it's striking how he reveals more by taking such a different tone to the ultra-secular tone of the majority of modern society, but also remaining liberal and open. I haven't see a single other writer or journalist cover it in this sort of way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/queen-elizabeth-was-part-of-our-psyche

    "Queen Elizabeth ruled at a time when the spiritual energy of the world was moving from a male-centred universe to one desperately in need of feminine energies. After two world wars, after the toxicity of Nazism, which was male energy at its most disordered and insane, what the world truly needed, at the level of its subconscious, was a female force, a stable, balancing, presence."

    Interesting that there are Okri fans on here - I thought Famished Road was one of most turgid things I had ever read, as did the friend who lent it to me. Another (bookshop-owning) friend finds his books sell to the sort of people she describews as 'shelf-decorators'.
    Yes not for everyone. A bit like Mantel or, yes, Proust or even JJ himself. You've got to give yourself over completely to their world. If so much as your big toe remains outside it's all over.
    And yet Mantel and Proust are fine for me (haven't read Joyce). The big modern worldbuilder for me is John Crowley. The Aegypt cycle is extremely dense and rewarding.
    Are you saying that people have different tastes in literature???

    I will have to give it a go never heard of him, embarrassing to say.

    As for the "shelf-decorators" it begs two questions - first, are there really people who buy books just so they can have an impressive bookcase; and secondly, the more important question - what proportion of your books should you legitimately not have read and be planning to.

    Edit: WAIT, WHAT??? Haven't read Joyce???????????????
    Re the shelf-decorators: yes, I can attest to this as a former bookseller myself. Keys are: they buy hardbacks; they won't buy more than one by any given author; prizewinners are important; the author's name needs to be very visible from a distance. I've heard people talk about who's getting 'demoted' to make room for a current big name. Mantel was v. popular because of the size of her Wolf Hall series.

    What proportion of books can you have unread, but be planning to? For me it's currently running at around 5%: nearly 3000 books, of which around 150 are on the 'to be read' shelves.

    Joyce: no, haven't got round to him yet. Even at around 100 books a year, there's only so much I can get through.
    All sounds a bit leather bound pounds...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRX13oJu5OQ
  • pm215 said:


    I can't imagine that Charles uses anything other than a fountain pen - he's a traditionalist. Biro is far too modern.

    Even if you do like modern, biros are just straight-up bad as writing instruments compared to a good disposable gel ink pen, which writes far more smoothly and reliably. The only thing biros have going for them is that they are the cheapest of the cheap, and then you get what you pay for...
    To be fair they make an excellent dummy for adults bored in office meetings too.
This discussion has been closed.