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Putting the interest in interest rates – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 28 in General
imagePutting the interest in interest rates – politicalbetting.com

With inflation running rampant and Andrew Bailey, a man so inept he pays full price for a DFS sofa, I suspect following his 0.5% increase last month Bailey will be under further pressure to combat the prediction of inflation peaking at 13.3% next year.

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Comments

  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,311
    Not sure A Bailey is to balme, surely it is a majority decision of MPC to raise rates and not his alone? He seems an easy target and is perhaps a little media clumsy but its too simplistic to pin the UK's economic problems on him.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,237
    ‘UK Interest Rates May Need to Rise to 4%, Andrew Sentance Says’
    - Former BOE policy maker says the BOE is ‘behind the curve’

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-17/uk-interest-rates-may-need-to-rise-to-4-andrew-sentance-says
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,237
    edited August 21

    Not sure A Bailey is to balme, surely it is a majority decision of MPC to raise rates and not his alone? He seems an easy target and is perhaps a little media clumsy but its too simplistic to pin the UK's economic problems on him.

    Pin them on Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Theresa May and The Oaf.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,846
    When it comes to economic incompetence, Gordon ..I saved the world .. Brown, takes the gold medal.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,237
    edited August 21
    Net favourability:

    Nicola Sturgeon +9
    Anas Sarwar -4
    Keir Starmer -14
    Douglas Ross -37
    Rishi Sunak -40
    Liz Truss -45
    The Oaf -60

    (Ipsos Scotland; 12-15 August; sample size: 1,000)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,934
    edited August 21
    test
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,450

    ‘UK Interest Rates May Need to Rise to 4%, Andrew Sentance Says’
    - Former BOE policy maker says the BOE is ‘behind the curve’

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-17/uk-interest-rates-may-need-to-rise-to-4-andrew-sentance-says

    If we want interest rates to control inflation*, then surely they have to be positive interest rates? Currently real interest rates are -8% or so, meaning that it has never been cheaper to borrow.

    * currently it is not consumer spending nor wage rises that are driving inflation, so interest rates will not affect it IMO. All they do is pile misery on those struggling, and push us into recession.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    edited August 21
    Is the current spread between base rate and retail borrowing rates at a high?

    Serious Q - I don't know.

    The mortgage point is largely moot; at present some huge percentage of mortgages are fixed rate - 75% of all of them, 90%+ of new ones in the last 3 years, so impact on mortgages will be very limited.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,237
    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    edited August 21

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613
    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.09 Liz Truss 92%
    11.5 Rishi Sunak 9%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.08 Liz Truss 93%
    12.5 Rishi Sunak 8%
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,416

    But are Ukrainian assassinations really likely?

    Why not? Nation states do extra-judicial killings on each other's territories all the time.

    It could have been meant for Dugin and gone wrong but anyway, fuck her, she was fash and I'm glad she's dead.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,659
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, while still long odds, I'm surprised to see that Sunak's fallen from around 16 to 12.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    London trauma surgeon:

    Multiple admissions for attempted suicide overnight, again.

    "Jumped because can't afford to eat".

    Again.

    https://twitter.com/karimbrohi/status/1560929483456118787
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Another thing with modern politics is how many MPs simply don't have the slightest idea about what infrastructure costs. Or how long it takes to build. The right wing ones say you can fix it by sacking a diversity officer, the left by not having profits.

    https://twitter.com/SimonMagus/status/1560959113483411458

    h/t @david_herdson
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, while still long odds, I'm surprised to see that Sunak's fallen from around 16 to 12.

    That drop in Rishi's price from 19 Friday to 12 now represents an increase in probability of Rishi being elected leader from around 5% to 8% which gives some sort of context; Liz Truss remains a very strong favourite, at least in betting terms.

    The triggers for the change came on Friday night so you'd be looking at Saturday's Times, with Michael Gove in particular, backed up by Matthew Parris, laying into Liz Truss, and then perhaps also the Manchester hustings.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    Salmon went extinct from the Thames in the 1830s and made a possibly rather artificial comeback in the 1970s
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, while still long odds, I'm surprised to see that Sunak's fallen from around 16 to 12.

    That drop in Rishi's price from 19 Friday to 12 now represents an increase in probability of Rishi being elected leader from around 5% to 8% which gives some sort of context; Liz Truss remains a very strong favourite, at least in betting terms.

    The triggers for the change came on Friday night so you'd be looking at Saturday's Times, with Michael Gove in particular, backed up by Matthew Parris, laying into Liz Truss, and then perhaps also the Manchester hustings.
    Given the information we already have, there shouldn't be any changes based on current events. Too many people have already voted and the gap's much too large.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    I'd say that much of the argument on both sides is ideological over relatively small differences. The regulatory regimes in England / Scotland are quite similar.

    My ideological point is that I never want micro-management by politicians, which istm is usually a long-term problem.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,973
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On the first point, I think you got off lightly. On the second, should be an instantaneous prison offence. we need proper expensive dog licences, to pay for dna registration of the horrible things, to eliminate the problem.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283
    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, while still long odds, I'm surprised to see that Sunak's fallen from around 16 to 12.

    That drop in Rishi's price from 19 Friday to 12 now represents an increase in probability of Rishi being elected leader from around 5% to 8% which gives some sort of context; Liz Truss remains a very strong favourite, at least in betting terms.

    The triggers for the change came on Friday night so you'd be looking at Saturday's Times, with Michael Gove in particular, backed up by Matthew Parris, laying into Liz Truss, and then perhaps also the Manchester hustings.
    Given the information we already have, there shouldn't be any changes based on current events. Too many people have already voted and the gap's much too large.
    Yes. If the pollsters are correct, especially about the number of votes already cast, the remaining voters would all need to vote for Rishi if he is to have any chance. Unless there is a major polling failure, Liz looks home and hosed.

    This does illustrate yet another failure of the 1922 Committee, which urged members to vote early and not wait for its hustings programme to be complete. Obviously flawed advice that also should have been revisited once it was decided members would not be allowed to change their votes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, while still long odds, I'm surprised to see that Sunak's fallen from around 16 to 12.

    That drop in Rishi's price from 19 Friday to 12 now represents an increase in probability of Rishi being elected leader from around 5% to 8% which gives some sort of context; Liz Truss remains a very strong favourite, at least in betting terms.

    The triggers for the change came on Friday night so you'd be looking at Saturday's Times, with Michael Gove in particular, backed up by Matthew Parris, laying into Liz Truss, and then perhaps also the Manchester hustings.
    Given the information we already have, there shouldn't be any changes based on current events. Too many people have already voted and the gap's much too large.
    Yes. If the pollsters are correct, especially about the number of votes already cast, the remaining voters would all need to vote for Rishi if he is to have any chance. Unless there is a major polling failure, Liz looks home and hosed.

    This does illustrate yet another failure of the 1922 Committee, which urged members to vote early and not wait for its hustings programme to be complete. Obviously flawed advice that also should have been revisited once it was decided members would not be allowed to change their votes.
    Well, it was stupid advice, but equally, surely Tory members could have made that decision for themselves? They're not automatons unable to function without input from above.

    If you vote early and regret it, well, you should have waited until you had more info.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,387
    edited August 21
    Low interest rates were always going to rise. I remember my first mortgage was fixed for two years at a rate of something like 13% back in the early 1990s. That was for £50,000 or so, mind - the amount it cost for a two-bedroom flat with garden in St John’s Way, London N19 back then. I am so glad I’m not starting out now. It is so much tougher. Mine really was the luckiest generation.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, while still long odds, I'm surprised to see that Sunak's fallen from around 16 to 12.

    That drop in Rishi's price from 19 Friday to 12 now represents an increase in probability of Rishi being elected leader from around 5% to 8% which gives some sort of context; Liz Truss remains a very strong favourite, at least in betting terms.

    The triggers for the change came on Friday night so you'd be looking at Saturday's Times, with Michael Gove in particular, backed up by Matthew Parris, laying into Liz Truss, and then perhaps also the Manchester hustings.
    Given the information we already have, there shouldn't be any changes based on current events. Too many people have already voted and the gap's much too large.
    Yes. If the pollsters are correct, especially about the number of votes already cast, the remaining voters would all need to vote for Rishi if he is to have any chance. Unless there is a major polling failure, Liz looks home and hosed.

    This does illustrate yet another failure of the 1922 Committee, which urged members to vote early and not wait for its hustings programme to be complete. Obviously flawed advice that also should have been revisited once it was decided members would not be allowed to change their votes.
    Well, it was stupid advice, but equally, surely Tory members could have made that decision for themselves? They're not automatons unable to function without input from above.

    If you vote early and regret it, well, you should have waited until you had more info.
    Ah, but suppose they vote early and the rest of us regret it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, while still long odds, I'm surprised to see that Sunak's fallen from around 16 to 12.

    That drop in Rishi's price from 19 Friday to 12 now represents an increase in probability of Rishi being elected leader from around 5% to 8% which gives some sort of context; Liz Truss remains a very strong favourite, at least in betting terms.

    The triggers for the change came on Friday night so you'd be looking at Saturday's Times, with Michael Gove in particular, backed up by Matthew Parris, laying into Liz Truss, and then perhaps also the Manchester hustings.
    Given the information we already have, there shouldn't be any changes based on current events. Too many people have already voted and the gap's much too large.
    Yes. If the pollsters are correct, especially about the number of votes already cast, the remaining voters would all need to vote for Rishi if he is to have any chance. Unless there is a major polling failure, Liz looks home and hosed.

    This does illustrate yet another failure of the 1922 Committee, which urged members to vote early and not wait for its hustings programme to be complete. Obviously flawed advice that also should have been revisited once it was decided members would not be allowed to change their votes.
    Well, it was stupid advice, but equally, surely Tory members could have made that decision for themselves? They're not automatons unable to function without input from above.

    If you vote early and regret it, well, you should have waited until you had more info.
    It's batshit insane on two levels: both that you give advice at all over and above the actual rules, and that the advice is effectively ignore the hustings. Hustings have the benefit of showing the candidates to the members, at the considerable cost of showing the candidates to the general public, so why neutralise the benefit but go ahead with them anyway?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,316
    On topic: agreed. They will probably do 50bp but the value is in >50bp.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, while still long odds, I'm surprised to see that Sunak's fallen from around 16 to 12.

    That drop in Rishi's price from 19 Friday to 12 now represents an increase in probability of Rishi being elected leader from around 5% to 8% which gives some sort of context; Liz Truss remains a very strong favourite, at least in betting terms.

    The triggers for the change came on Friday night so you'd be looking at Saturday's Times, with Michael Gove in particular, backed up by Matthew Parris, laying into Liz Truss, and then perhaps also the Manchester hustings.
    Given the information we already have, there shouldn't be any changes based on current events. Too many people have already voted and the gap's much too large.
    Yes. If the pollsters are correct, especially about the number of votes already cast, the remaining voters would all need to vote for Rishi if he is to have any chance. Unless there is a major polling failure, Liz looks home and hosed.

    This does illustrate yet another failure of the 1922 Committee, which urged members to vote early and not wait for its hustings programme to be complete. Obviously flawed advice that also should have been revisited once it was decided members would not be allowed to change their votes.
    Well, it was stupid advice, but equally, surely Tory members could have made that decision for themselves? They're not automatons unable to function without input from above.

    If you vote early and regret it, well, you should have waited until you had more info.
    Ah, but suppose they vote early and the rest of us regret it.
    Given where we were, the only reason we won't all very much regret this is because even Truss will probably be an improvement on Johnson.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,387
    edited August 21
    Some indications that in large parts of the UK it is going to be a drier than average autumn/winter. If that pans out we are going to have a full-scale emergency on our hands next summer. The management of water in this country (England and Wales, at least) is disastrous - from the companies, through the regulator and government to us all as users. We waste so much, just assuming it can’t run out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    Some indications that in large parts of the UK it is going to be a drier than average autumn/winter. If that pans out we are going to have a full-scale emergency on our hands next summer. The management of water in this country (England and Wales, at least) is disastrous - from the companies, through the regulator and government to us all as users. We waste so much, just assuming it can’t run out.

    Also bad news as if it's dry it's likely to be cold.
  • ydoethur said:

    Some indications that in large parts of the UK it is going to be a drier than average autumn/winter. If that pans out we are going to have a full-scale emergency on our hands next summer. The management of water in this country (England and Wales, at least) is disastrous - from the companies, through the regulator and government to us all as users. We waste so much, just assuming it can’t run out.

    Also bad news as if it's dry it's likely to be cold.
    And not very windy - also bad news.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,295

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    I agree it would obviously be better to just leave the dog poo on the ground rather than plastic wrapping it and then leaving it on the ground. Some dog owners even take to hanging it on trees.
    It's a disgusting and pointless exercise. If they've done the decent thing in collecting their dog's poo why not put it in a bin?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,214
    I had a tour around one of the water companies in the mid 1990s - post privatisation. I thought it was an amateurish set-up. To bring it into modernity was going to cost billions. Years of poor investment had taken their toll.

    Mrs T thought privatisation was the answer. I was never sure it would work. It stands in comparion to the Pharmaceutical industry. People are prepared to pay for world class drugs, so it's a natural for entrepreneurs. No one wants increased taxes to pay what drops from the sky, and as for shit, we'd rather not go there.

    So it remained the poor relation. It has to be in public hands for that reason.

    To extremists, it's a badge of honour. To the left, nationalsiation is always right. To the right, privatisation is the goal. Horses for courses never enters into it. Childishness at its worst.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,688

    Some indications that in large parts of the UK it is going to be a drier than average autumn/winter. If that pans out we are going to have a full-scale emergency on our hands next summer. The management of water in this country (England and Wales, at least) is disastrous - from the companies, through the regulator and government to us all as users. We waste so much, just assuming it can’t run out.

    We had quite a dry autumn last year. Normally by December, the lye near me is saturated, but last year that wasn’t the case. Thankfully we got a decent amount of rain in January and February.

    I don’t know if it’s true, but someone on TV said we haven’t built a new reservoir since 1976 (as though it’s a bad thing). If that’s the case, then that sounds like a good news story given the population increase in that time.

    Now, I’m not saying this is a case for the current set up, but I do think we sometimes fall into the trap of thinking everything is terrible and getting worse.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,973

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Wow. I've spent loads of time on and around the meadows, and I've never seen an adder there. I'll have to look more carefully in future (I'm usually watching my feet to avoid treading in cowpats whilst running the path. Or avoiding Jeffery Archer, which some might see as the same thing...)

    On another note: we're currently in Manchester for a short break to celebrate our 13th anniversary tomorrow. Any recommendations from PBers for things to see and do? I've been here as a kid a few times decades ago, and have walked through it, and Mrs J has never been here.
  • ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    I agree it would obviously be better to just leave the dog poo on the ground rather than plastic wrapping it and then leaving it on the ground. Some dog owners even take to hanging it on trees.
    It's a disgusting and pointless exercise. If they've done the decent thing in collecting their dog's poo why not put it in a bin?
    I suppose it's what people do when they can't find a bin and get fed up with carrying a bag of dog poo. It's still disgusting though. As someone who has to regularly walk someone else's dog, I have memorised the locations of all bins on the route.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,316

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    An adder would tend to prefer the Cam to the Cherwell I guess.
    Ha ha, excellent!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,688
    On topic, I’m not sure putting up interest rates will make much difference. However, as a poor ickle millennial still living with his parents, I couldn’t give a f***.

    Here’s David Cameron in 2014:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-says-it-would-be-lovely-if-interest-rates-could-remain-at-the-current-low-level-9829844.html?amp

    David Cameron has said he wants interest rates to remain at a historic low, because it would make life easier for homeowners.

    The Prime Minister said it would be “lovely” if they could “forever” stay at the emergency low they have been at since 2009.


    Leaving rates near 0 during the 2010s was utterly criminal, as was help to buy.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,214
    edited August 21
    Mr Jessop,

    Congratulations.

    On the old Irish note, I've found Manchester's attractions too spread out. Liverpool's are easier to recommend because they're localised in the centre. But your tastes may be more cultural, so I'll leave it to a Mancunian to give you advice.

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,485
    edited August 21
    Just a gentle reminder that the average BoE base rate since foundation in 1694 is 5%, and between 1950 and 2008 it was more than 8%.

    Bailey has been a very weak governor and that is probably already becoming priced in as part of the interest rate premium that the BoE has to offer versus the ECB. It is now a long time since the UK had a AAA rating (It is currently AA, for context Estonia is AA-, Germany AAA) and the prospect of UK finances being strong enough to see any kind of ratings upgrade seems very distant.

    While the UK government will put pressure on the BoE to maintain a looser monetary policy in the short run, in the end this has to be paid for, so either we continue to tighten at a steady speed and build in some room to manoeuvre, or the next time we hit any kind of rough patch we need an emergency tightening and crush all hope of economic recovery.

    Truss is caught in a bind, the recession is already here, but the room for easier monetary conditions is not, and if she pushes the Bank too hard, it will lead to worse monetary conditions, not better. If Truss does undermine the independence of the central bank she must expect the market to insist on a premium rate to pay for the increased risk of political interference.

    Truss is not scared enough of the Bond Market.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,973

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    I agree it would obviously be better to just leave the dog poo on the ground rather than plastic wrapping it and then leaving it on the ground. Some dog owners even take to hanging it on trees.
    It's a disgusting and pointless exercise. If they've done the decent thing in collecting their dog's poo why not put it in a bin?
    I was once on a walk in a pretty little Dorset village. I left along a path through the allotments, and immediately outside was a line of plastic poo bags, many feet long. Must have been from locals who could not even be bothered to take them home.

    I've also seen dog poo bags lined up on the sea wall at Teignmouth/Dawlish (the bit between the walkway and the railway), at convenient height for kids to touch. And yes, as you say, hanging off trees.

    Incidentally, I've occasionally also come across bras or panties hanging off trees in wooded areas. Always makes me wonder quite what the story was of how they got there. And also a large doll's head impaled on a spike in woodland, gazing out at passers by...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,659
    Mr. Cicero, while I agree with your tone of long term gloom for the UK due to short-termism, I do think ratings agencies showed how expert they were with the financial crisis.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    edited August 21
    The last Panelbase poll had Yes leading, so officially this is sleazy broken Scottish nationalism on the slide.

    The Panelbase survey of 1,133 adults in Scotland showed 49 per cent support for independence and 51 per cent for the union among those likely to vote who have made up their minds.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/independence-more-likely-if-truss-in-no-10-pz68r0k6b
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    However

    Scotland is more likely to become independent if Liz Truss becomes prime minister, according to a survey of opinion across the Union. The research also suggests that Northern Ireland is on course to leave the UK within 20 years.....

    ...in Scotland, support for staying in the UK falls slightly to 48 per cent if Truss becomes prime minister, and to 49 per cent if Rishi Sunak takes over at No 10.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    Mr A Bell writes about Scotland in The Sunday Times, we should listen to Mr Bell when it comes to Scottish independence and legalities.

    Nicola Sturgeon is wrong to suggest that she could hold a second independence referendum without UK government consent, according to a former colleague who helped to negotiate the Edinburgh Agreement that led to the 2014 vote.

    Alex Bell, the former special adviser who led Alex Salmond’s Scottish government policy team, said the administration received legal advice that such an approach would be unlawful....

    ...In his new Sunday Times column, Bell argues that the first minister’s decision to refer the issue to the Supreme Court is “a waste of time and money” that will see the era of Salmond, Sturgeon and John Swinney “end in ignominy”....

    He writes: “Since 2007 Nicola Sturgeon has known the law. It is Westminster’s call. Pursuing the matter after 15 years in office is a piece of theatre designed to disguise how the SNP has failed nationalists.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeons-referendum-plan-illegal-says-ex-aide-dktq3npp5
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,316
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,485

    Mr. Cicero, while I agree with your tone of long term gloom for the UK due to short-termism, I do think ratings agencies showed how expert they were with the financial crisis.

    Agreed, they tend to be a lagging indicator, but they do say something about basic economic strength, are generally independent and have similar, comparable, criteria for each credit risk. So, flawed, but they are not totally meaningless either.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437

    Mr. Cicero, while I agree with your tone of long term gloom for the UK due to short-termism, I do think ratings agencies showed how expert they were with the financial crisis.

    That's irrelevant though, some of us know that top end investors are legally obliged to only lend/offer the best rates to those with the top end credit scores.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,450

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    I agree it would obviously be better to just leave the dog poo on the ground rather than plastic wrapping it and then leaving it on the ground. Some dog owners even take to hanging it on trees.
    It's a disgusting and pointless exercise. If they've done the decent thing in collecting their dog's poo why not put it in a bin?
    I was once on a walk in a pretty little Dorset village. I left along a path through the allotments, and immediately outside was a line of plastic poo bags, many feet long. Must have been from locals who could not even be bothered to take them home.

    I've also seen dog poo bags lined up on the sea wall at Teignmouth/Dawlish (the bit between the walkway and the railway), at convenient height for kids to touch. And yes, as you say, hanging off trees.

    Incidentally, I've occasionally also come across bras or panties hanging off trees in wooded areas. Always makes me wonder quite what the story was of how they got there. And also a large doll's head impaled on a spike in woodland, gazing out at passers by...
    Dog poo bags are biodegradable nowadays, but that is still no excuse. Occasionally I will bag up a poo and leave it by the hole in the hedge to the fields, but I always pick it up on the return journey if doing that.

    Undeniably many dog owners are antisocial though, not keeping their pooches under control around other people, nor cleaning up after them. There is an unfortunate class element to it too, with middle class owners much more likely to pick up, even when they don't think people are watching.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,973
    It seems 'urban exploration' is the excuse for the Albanian fun yesterday.

    On one hand: urban explorers can be sh*ts: there seems to be somewhat of a feeling of entitlement to break into places they really should not go - and to encourage others to do so. I wouldn't put being stupid enough to break into a military base beyond some of them.

    On the other hand: 'urban exploration' would be a great excuse for all sorts of nefarious activities in places you shouldn't be. And if it was a 'neuroparalysing spray', and not common-or-garden pepper spray, then yes, they're spies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/21/two-russians-and-one-ukrainian-arrested-after-suspected-spying-raid-on-albanian-arms-factory
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,920
    Cicero said:

    Mr. Cicero, while I agree with your tone of long term gloom for the UK due to short-termism, I do think ratings agencies showed how expert they were with the financial crisis.

    Agreed, they tend to be a lagging indicator, but they do say something about basic economic strength, are generally independent and have similar, comparable, criteria for each credit risk. So, flawed, but they are not totally meaningless either.
    Knowing one of the senior sovereign rating analysts at one of the big-3 and knowing how capable he was when I worked with him, I don’t give the public ratings much of a thought if I’m honest. Their usefulness is solely in reference to whether downgrades might trigger institutional selling by passive credit funds.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538
    Cicero said:

    Mr. Cicero, while I agree with your tone of long term gloom for the UK due to short-termism, I do think ratings agencies showed how expert they were with the financial crisis.

    Agreed, they tend to be a lagging indicator, but they do say something about basic economic strength, are generally independent and have similar, comparable, criteria for each credit risk. So, flawed, but they are not totally meaningless either.
    It is ironic how Tories in opposition ran on protecting our AAA rating and then in office collapsed it. Labour have a better record.

    Meanwhile, definitely cutting back on conveniences and nice to haves here to help pay the bills, which is recession like behaviour.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,450

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
    Adders really are not very dangerous. The last fatal bite was in 1975 in the UK.

    https://www.arc-trust.org/facts-and-advice-on-adder-bites#:~:text=How many people die from,the last being in 1975.

    Though a friend of mine at medical school did get admitted to hospital once after a particular bit of stupidity. He saw an adder on the South Downs while having a picnic and picked it up to scare the girls with! Not surprisingly it bit him, and his arm started to tingle and swell. He was OK to drive though, and went to hospital and was monitored for cardiac dysrhthmias, then discharged the next day.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,225
    edited August 21

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Wow. I've spent loads of time on and around the meadows, and I've never seen an adder there. I'll have to look more carefully in future (I'm usually watching my feet to avoid treading in cowpats whilst running the path. Or avoiding Jeffery Archer, which some might see as the same thing...)

    On another note: we're currently in Manchester for a short break to celebrate our 13th anniversary tomorrow. Any recommendations from PBers for things to see and do? I've been here as a kid a few times decades ago, and have walked through it, and Mrs J has never been here.
    Adders are a hazard around here in my part of Gloucestershire, particularly on Cleeve Hill where they like the dry paths, particularly in hot weather. They are shy creatures however and will scurry away at the slightest sound. I have only ever seen one but dogs tend to spot them quickly and inquisitive creatures like mine are apt to poke them with their nose. The result is likely to be serious, even fatal, for the dog. Hurry yours to the vet if it happens. An adder bite can kill humans too, although I think such incidents are rare.

    On poo bags, I have seen them in trees occasionally, more in London than around here, and it mystifies me. Even if there are no bins around, you take it home and dispose there. It's actually illegal not to pick up and dispose safely. There are dog wardens who certainly apply the law locally. You will even be fined if you do not carry the means to dispose of such waste. Compliance rates are good, though there are one or two individuals who notoriously cannot be bothered. People know who they are, but they are incorrigible. They tend to be old, poor, and stupid.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
    Adders really are not very dangerous. The last fatal bite was in 1975 in the UK.

    https://www.arc-trust.org/facts-and-advice-on-adder-bites#:~:text=How many people die from,the last being in 1975.

    Though a friend of mine at medical school did get admitted to hospital once after a particular bit of stupidity. He saw an adder on the South Downs while having a picnic and picked it up to scare the girls with! Not surprisingly it bit him, and his arm started to tingle and swell. He was OK to drive though, and went to hospital and was monitored for cardiac dysrhthmias, then discharged the next day.
    What a Wally. Our cat used to kill adders. It was quite a sight, she was quite skilful. A dance of death.
  • Jonathan said:

    Cicero said:

    Mr. Cicero, while I agree with your tone of long term gloom for the UK due to short-termism, I do think ratings agencies showed how expert they were with the financial crisis.

    Agreed, they tend to be a lagging indicator, but they do say something about basic economic strength, are generally independent and have similar, comparable, criteria for each credit risk. So, flawed, but they are not totally meaningless either.
    It is ironic how Tories in opposition ran on protecting our AAA rating and then in office collapsed it. Labour have a better record.

    Meanwhile, definitely cutting back on conveniences and nice to haves here to help pay the bills, which is recession like behaviour.
    We've just switched to the Octopus Go tariff, which provides daytime electricity at 40.06 p/kWh while offering night time electricity for 7.5 p/kWh for 4 hours. That's fixed for a year. We have an EV but don't drive it enough to justify switching; the prime motivation has been to fix before the next price cap rise in October.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
    So to sum up, and this is not to take anything away from you, we can reckon that adders in total are not particularly dangerous?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538
    edited August 21
    Adders, Sewage and Tories, a thread detailing all three major menaces native to the UK. How long before some poor soul is out swimming and gets bitten by a Liz Truss?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Cicero said:

    Just a gentle reminder that the average BoE base rate since foundation in 1694 is 5%, and between 1950 and 2008 it was more than 8%.

    Bailey has been a very weak governor and that is probably already becoming priced in as part of the interest rate premium that the BoE has to offer versus the ECB. It is now a long time since the UK had a AAA rating (It is currently AA, for context Estonia is AA-, Germany AAA) and the prospect of UK finances being strong enough to see any kind of ratings upgrade seems very distant.

    While the UK government will put pressure on the BoE to maintain a looser monetary policy in the short run, in the end this has to be paid for, so either we continue to tighten at a steady speed and build in some room to manoeuvre, or the next time we hit any kind of rough patch we need an emergency tightening and crush all hope of economic recovery.

    Truss is caught in a bind, the recession is already here, but the room for easier monetary conditions is not, and if she pushes the Bank too hard, it will lead to worse monetary conditions, not better. If Truss does undermine the independence of the central bank she must expect the market to insist on a premium rate to pay for the increased risk of political interference.

    Truss is not scared enough of the Bond Market.

    Kwarsi will take care of all that complicated stuff.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,920
    This failed assassination on Dugin is likely to enrage Putin and his gang of thieves. Even more than the embarrassment of Crimean holidaymakers seeing his Black Sea strength inflamed with their own eyes. Could be a dangerous couple of weeks ahead.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
    Adders really are not very dangerous. The last fatal bite was in 1975 in the UK.

    https://www.arc-trust.org/facts-and-advice-on-adder-bites#:~:text=How many people die from,the last being in 1975.

    Though a friend of mine at medical school did get admitted to hospital once after a particular bit of stupidity. He saw an adder on the South Downs while having a picnic and picked it up to scare the girls with! Not surprisingly it bit him, and his arm started to tingle and swell. He was OK to drive though, and went to hospital and was monitored for cardiac dysrhthmias, then discharged the next day.
    PS Top tip, f you want wildlife to scare the girls with on the South Downs, stag beetles are a far better option.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493
    https://twitter.com/SallyAnn1066/status/1560256571397255174

    Tory MP votes to let private water company flush her poo directly into the sea. Then writes to complain that the water company is flushing her poo into the sea.

    The 2019 intake of Tory MPs are the dumbest ever.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697
    I love Adders. Didn't see them for years but 2021 was a bumper year, saw about 10.

    They make quite a distinctive noise when disturbed - once you know it, you hear it all the time. One had a good look at me while I was napping by the Dee up in the Cairngorms, came right over my boot.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910
    edited August 21
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On the first point, I think you got off lightly. On the second, should be an instantaneous prison offence. we need proper expensive dog licences, to pay for dna registration of the horrible things, to eliminate the problem.
    That's why DNA fingerprinting was developed. Someone was stupid enough to let his hound defecate repeatedly outside a certain Leicester geneticist's front door. The method was then extended from local mutts to local murders and look where we are now.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910
    edited August 21
    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    You need to look up the meaning of 'sectarian'. I don't see Stu wearing a footie scarf while chanting "* the Pope". It detracts from your PBToryexpertise on Scottish matters.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    Morning everyone.
    As a boy a friend and I used to catch adders in what is now Hadleigh Country Park. There was a chap not far away who would pay 10/- for them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910

    Morning everyone.
    As a boy a friend and I used to catch adders in what is now Hadleigh Country Park. There was a chap not far away who would pay 10/- for them.

    What for, please? Just wondering.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,323
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    You need to look up the meaning of 'sectarian'. I don't see Stu wearing a footie scarf while chanting "* the Pope". It detracts from your PBToryexpertise on Scottish
    matters.
    Okay then. It’s “Anglophobic August”. Better?

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    Carnyx said:

    Morning everyone.
    As a boy a friend and I used to catch adders in what is now Hadleigh Country Park. There was a chap not far away who would pay 10/- for them.

    What for, please? Just wondering.
    We never found out. Just took the money and ran!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,491
    Full disclosure: I have a mortgage. That said, can anyone tell me how putting interest rates up helps lower inflation which is driven by the high price of gas?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,819
    moonshine said:

    This failed assassination on Dugin is likely to enrage Putin and his gang of thieves. Even more than the embarrassment of Crimean holidaymakers seeing his Black Sea strength inflamed with their own eyes. Could be a dangerous couple of weeks ahead.

    Could be a “blue on blue” - Kremlin/army lot who realise the war is messed up and either removing the idiots advising Putin or sending a message.

    Would possibly be better for Putin if it was Ukrainians behind it because if not then it could be the beginning of his end.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    Full disclosure: I have a mortgage. That said, can anyone tell me how putting interest rates up helps lower inflation which is driven by the high price of gas?

    You have less money to spend, so if people want to sell you things they are incentivised to absorb the additional costs and reduce margins rather than pass the on through higher prices.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,316
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
    Adders really are not very dangerous. The last fatal bite was in 1975 in the UK.

    https://www.arc-trust.org/facts-and-advice-on-adder-bites#:~:text=How many people die from,the last being in 1975.

    Though a friend of mine at medical school did get admitted to hospital once after a particular bit of stupidity. He saw an adder on the South Downs while having a picnic and picked it up to scare the girls with! Not surprisingly it bit him, and his arm started to tingle and swell. He was OK to drive though, and went to hospital and was monitored for cardiac dysrhthmias, then discharged the next day.
    I wouldnt want to get bitten by one. I know someone who was and said it was the most pain they'd ever experienced. If it had bitten our 9yo I imagine it would have led to a pretty unpleasant end to the day. But no, my fear was mostly irrational.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,323

    Full disclosure: I have a mortgage. That said, can anyone tell me how putting interest rates up helps lower inflation which is driven by the high price of gas?

    Higher interest rates make it more expensive for people to borrow money. The result is that, overall, people will tend to spend less - even on gas. Some spend is more or less discretionary. I’m in the middle of writing a think piece suggesting for nerdy employment lawyers suggesting that more people will want to work from the office this winter if it means they can keep the heating off at home longer.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538
    Wasps. Not seen that many so far this summer. (Famous last words)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    You need to look up the meaning of 'sectarian'. I don't see Stu wearing a footie scarf while chanting "* the Pope". It detracts from your PBToryexpertise on Scottish
    matters.
    Okay then. It’s “Anglophobic August”. Better?

    The Tory Party seem not to think so*. The Tories actually tried claiming that Scottish criticism of Tory* policies was inherently racist and Anglophobic, but they back-tracked within a very few hours. That was in the months before the referendum of 2014, and I remember that very well - evidently a coordinated message out to all their mouthpieces in the news outlets, then an almost instant reverse ferret.

    *Not sure about today.

    **UKG included LDs at the time, of course.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,744
    edited August 21

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    I was on the Lea River cycle path a few weeks ago and almost ran over a long, thin snake on the towpath as it slithered towards the undergrowth. I have no idea what type of snake it was - I think it was about two feet long and luminous green but I only saw it very briefly. Does anybody know what type of snake it could been?

    Michael Gove was elsewhere that day so it wasn't his alter ego.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,233
    To me it is almost certain that the next rise will be another 0.5% but the odds reflect that and are not particularly tempting. More would reek of panic and admissions of past failures to act. Less would be rightly condemned in light of inflation being so out of control.

    I am not impressed by Bailey and the others on the MPC. They have failed at their job and frankly I think that they should pay the penalty. Resignation by the Governor would be an acknowledgement of the Bank's failings.

    When they actually failed though is more difficult. The lag in interest rates is probably 18-2 years now given the preponderance of fixed rate borrowing. It would have been difficult to raise rates 2 years ago when Covid was at its peak and the economy was in recession. The mistakes really came earlier when the emergency rate from the GFC was allowed to persist. At the time it seemed growth was weak but fiscal policy in terms of the deficit was generous and the Bank failed to fix the roof when the sun was shining, as one politician once said. If they had gently built base rates up to 4% or so we would be in a much better place now.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    edited August 21
    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    @MattW that's a typo by the mirror.

    Katy Taylor works for Southern Water not Scottish Water. Southern Water are the ones who released the statement about 95% rainwater
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910
    edited August 21
    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    I was on the Lea River cycle path a few weeks ago and almost ran over a long, thin snake on the towpath as it slithered towards the undergrowth. I have no idea what type of snake it was - I think it was about two feet long and luminous green but I only saw it very briefly. Does anybody know what type of snake it could been?
    Grass snake perhaps in that area, near water? Yellow collar around neck. (Friends hadf an allotment next to a Thames backwarer at Oxford - they had grass snakes.) But legless lizard = "slow worm" is another possibility.

    https://www.gigl.org.uk/atlas/amphibians-reptiles-atlas/

    Edit: assuming it's not an escapee, especially in this warmer weather. But obviously not an anaconda (which loves water), unless it is a very juvenile one.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,200

    https://twitter.com/SallyAnn1066/status/1560256571397255174

    Tory MP votes to let private water company flush her poo directly into the sea. Then writes to complain that the water company is flushing her poo into the sea.

    The 2019 intake of Tory MPs are the dumbest ever.

    This is an example of how twitter turns political discourse amongst otherwise intelligent and educated people in to school playground level tribalism.
    I am not claiming any knowledge of the detail.
    But 2 minutes googling on this shows that
    She did not vote to 'allow private water companies to flush poo in to the sea'.
    She voted for the environment bill.
    This included new legislation on how storm water overflows are regulated.
    The position espoused in government press releases at the time is that this will reduce the amount of water being discharged in to the sea.
    There is independent commentary at the time that supports this position. IE:

    https://www.weightmans.com/insights/environment-act-2021-storm-overflows/

    "Not only the public but also undertakers may be pleased that these duties have been enacted. They will help to reduce the long-standing situation of storm overflow discharges to the aquatic environment, a situation which the undertakers themselves have long regarded as unacceptable but did not have the necessary statutory and regulatory framework to enable the implementation of significant remedial steps. The measures within the Act set out that framework, albeit subject yet to further detail in regulations. However, a substantial unknown remains in respect of “progressive reduction in the adverse impacts of discharges from … storm overflows”, both in terms of the precise meaning of this duty, how it is to be achieved and the time period for doing so. To that extent, the Act is merely the starting point."

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,475

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
    So to sum up, and this is not to take anything away from you, we can reckon that adders in total are not particularly dangerous?
    By the sound of it, messing with adders is a calculated risk.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,491
    Jonathan said:

    Full disclosure: I have a mortgage. That said, can anyone tell me how putting interest rates up helps lower inflation which is driven by the high price of gas?

    You have less money to spend, so if people want to sell you things they are incentivised to absorb the additional costs and reduce margins rather than pass the on through higher prices.
    I thought that was the only mechanism. In that case, I'm really not sure why it's the in thing to call for the BOE to raise them, and compete to evince disgust at their amateurish blundering when they only raise them by a bit. Whilst at the same time criticise Liz for not having a package in place to give me a load of money to help pay my energy bills. Which will presumably have the opposing effect on my spending urges.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910
    edited August 21
    Alistair said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    @MattW that's a typo by the mirror.

    Katy Taylor works for Southern Water not Scottish Water. Southern Water are the ones who released the statement about 95% rainwater
    Excellent spot - Smith's piece just seemed complete nonsense. No wonder.
  • Universities push for ‘vital’ tuition fee rise
    UK students must pay closer to £24,000 a year or lose their places to foreigners, argue bosses

    No doubt this will be Liz’s next move. God help us, fuck the young am I right?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    Jonathan said:

    Wasps. Not seen that many so far this summer. (Famous last words)

    Quite an alarm recently about a nest in a children's playground near here!
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,286
    DavidL said:

    To me it is almost certain that the next rise will be another 0.5% but the odds reflect that and are not particularly tempting. More would reek of panic and admissions of past failures to act. Less would be rightly condemned in light of inflation being so out of control.

    I am not impressed by Bailey and the others on the MPC. They have failed at their job and frankly I think that they should pay the penalty. Resignation by the Governor would be an acknowledgement of the Bank's failings.

    When they actually failed though is more difficult. The lag in interest rates is probably 18-2 years now given the preponderance of fixed rate borrowing. It would have been difficult to raise rates 2 years ago when Covid was at its peak and the economy was in recession. The mistakes really came earlier when the emergency rate from the GFC was allowed to persist. At the time it seemed growth was weak but fiscal policy in terms of the deficit was generous and the Bank failed to fix the roof when the sun was shining, as one politician once said. If they had gently built base rates up to 4% or so we would be in a much better place now.

    Yeah, but an interest rate of 4% destroys the housing market, and as long as people felt they were getting richer because the value of their main asset kept increasing, they voted Conservative. That's why they've tried so hard the last decade to prop up house prices. With low interest rates, with help to buy, with the stupid stamp duty holiday -- all of which pushed house prices up to the stratospheric in the interests of people who already owned property at the expense of those just looking for a roof over their head.

    I honestly don't think the economy can ever be fixed as long as policy automatically defaults to whatever keeps house prices high.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
    So to sum up, and this is not to take anything away from you, we can reckon that adders in total are not particularly dangerous?
    By the sound of it, messing with adders is a calculated risk.
    I woiuldn't wrangle with them, certainly not in a punt.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,475
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    I'm just puzzled as to why he thinks 100 years of underinvestment in proper water and sewerage systems is linked to Brexit.

    Although if Scotland ever votes to leave I'll be intrigued to see how every public sector disaster caused by chronic lack of money is not attributed to Sindy...
    I think Mark Steel is a bit starry-eyed about swimming conditions before the mid-90s.
    In Newcastle, as late as 1970 raw sewage was still routinely (not irregularly) discharged into the Tyne. To the extent that on hot days it wasn't possible to do any work in the city centre due to the smell. Nothing was done until the Council's own offices started to be impacted.

    I would be surprised to learn that was unusual. I know in the 1950s the salmon population in the Severn was severely damaged because of the sewage from Gloucester and Worcester in the estuary.
    On Wednesday we were swimming in the sea near Eastbourne pier. In the surf we found a plastic bag containing a nappy. I've no idea if this was something swept out with sewage, or swept into the sea after being discarded on a beach, but it was yucky.

    (On another pollution point: why do sodding dog owners leave plastic bundles of poo everywhere?)
    On a happier note, we were punting on the Cam yesterday, and on the way back from Granchester Meadows we saw the most incredible, and terrifying, sight - an adder swimming in the river. It held its head up out of the water and had its mouth open. Rather put me off wild swimming. Sadly we didn't get a photo or video but it's a sight none of us will ever forget!
    Why do you think an adder poses any real risk?
    I don't, I just have a mild phobia of snakes, and the thought of it swimming up to me if I was swimming in the water, mouth open and showing its fangs, is a bit scary. As we were in a punt I wasn't really scared and felt privileged to see such a beautiful creature doing something so interesting, but if we'd been in the water it would certainly have scared the shit out of me!
    Adders really are not very dangerous. The last fatal bite was in 1975 in the UK.

    https://www.arc-trust.org/facts-and-advice-on-adder-bites#:~:text=How many people die from,the last being in 1975.

    Though a friend of mine at medical school did get admitted to hospital once after a particular bit of stupidity. He saw an adder on the South Downs while having a picnic and picked it up to scare the girls with! Not surprisingly it bit him, and his arm started to tingle and swell. He was OK to drive though, and went to hospital and was monitored for cardiac dysrhthmias, then discharged the next day.
    PS Top tip, f you want wildlife to scare the girls with on the South Downs, stag beetles are a far better option.
    Not far from there, in Brighton, stag parties are much more likely to scare the girls.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,323
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Brexit has turned England into a turd world country.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/look-bright-side-sea-sewage-27791730

    Morning Stu, it seems it's Sectarian Sunday.

    Publicly owned Scottish Water features in your linked piece. Sturgeon's Shitty Scotland?

    When they were publicly owned, you had no choice but to swim in a boring sea, that was just wet all over. But now you can either carry on in a sea that’s old-fashioned, or you can choose a more interesting one with islands of mucky toilet paper floating through it.

    Katy Taylor, of Scottish Water, reassured us by saying it was up to the public to decide whether it’s safe, hinting we shouldn’t worry because the sea is “95% rainwater”.


    Your man Mark Steel doesn't seem to have noticed that that one *is* publicly owned.
    You need to look up the meaning of 'sectarian'. I don't see Stu wearing a footie scarf while chanting "* the Pope". It detracts from your PBToryexpertise on Scottish
    matters.
    Okay then. It’s “Anglophobic August”. Better?

    The Tory Party seem not to think so*. The Tories actually tried claiming that Scottish criticism of Tory* policies was inherently racist and Anglophobic, but they back-tracked within a very few hours. That was in the months before the referendum of 2014, and I remember that very well - evidently a coordinated message out to all their mouthpieces in the news outlets, then an almost instant reverse ferret.

    *Not sure about today.

    **UKG included LDs at the time, of course.
    The criticism was of Dickson personally. He changed the headline of a piece, critical of water quality in “Britain”, to “England”, despite the article itself clearly referring to water companies on both sides of the border. Scottish Water is publicly owned.

    Scottish Nationalism is not inherently Anglophobic. Stuart Dickson absolutely is.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    Jonathan said:

    Wasps. Not seen that many so far this summer. (Famous last words)

    Quite an alarm recently about a nest in a children's playground near here!
    Oh dear. Two summers ago a local tea rooms, with an idyllic garden, was blighted by a nest. It was quite surreal seeing people struggle through afternoon tea. It was a warzone. I’ve seen about four wasps this year.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,280

    Mr A Bell writes about Scotland in The Sunday Times, we should listen to Mr Bell when it comes to Scottish independence and legalities.

    Nicola Sturgeon is wrong to suggest that she could hold a second independence referendum without UK government consent, according to a former colleague who helped to negotiate the Edinburgh Agreement that led to the 2014 vote.

    Alex Bell, the former special adviser who led Alex Salmond’s Scottish government policy team, said the administration received legal advice that such an approach would be unlawful....

    ...In his new Sunday Times column, Bell argues that the first minister’s decision to refer the issue to the Supreme Court is “a waste of time and money” that will see the era of Salmond, Sturgeon and John Swinney “end in ignominy”....

    He writes: “Since 2007 Nicola Sturgeon has known the law. It is Westminster’s call. Pursuing the matter after 15 years in office is a piece of theatre designed to disguise how the SNP has failed nationalists.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeons-referendum-plan-illegal-says-ex-aide-dktq3npp5

    If you can find a quote from Mr Bell from the last 8 years positive about the SNP, Sturgeon or indy I’ll eat my Tam o’ shanter. He’s quoted as a go to SNP expert almost as much as Jim Sillars, though he's probably not quite of an age to be put in the embittered old man who's nose has been put out of joint by irrelevance category. But listen to him by all means..

    On a connected note: 'While 44% oppose a referendum in the next five years, 48% are in favour.' I guess this will mean a rapid Yoon reversion to 'no one gives a feck what Scots think, you're not getting one'.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,769
    kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    To me it is almost certain that the next rise will be another 0.5% but the odds reflect that and are not particularly tempting. More would reek of panic and admissions of past failures to act. Less would be rightly condemned in light of inflation being so out of control.

    I am not impressed by Bailey and the others on the MPC. They have failed at their job and frankly I think that they should pay the penalty. Resignation by the Governor would be an acknowledgement of the Bank's failings.

    When they actually failed though is more difficult. The lag in interest rates is probably 18-2 years now given the preponderance of fixed rate borrowing. It would have been difficult to raise rates 2 years ago when Covid was at its peak and the economy was in recession. The mistakes really came earlier when the emergency rate from the GFC was allowed to persist. At the time it seemed growth was weak but fiscal policy in terms of the deficit was generous and the Bank failed to fix the roof when the sun was shining, as one politician once said. If they had gently built base rates up to 4% or so we would be in a much better place now.

    Yeah, but an interest rate of 4% destroys the housing market, and as long as people felt they were getting richer because the value of their main asset kept increasing, they voted Conservative. That's why they've tried so hard the last decade to prop up house prices. With low interest rates, with help to buy, with the stupid stamp duty holiday -- all of which pushed house prices up to the stratospheric in the interests of people who already owned property at the expense of those just looking for a roof over their head.

    I honestly don't think the economy can ever be fixed as long as policy automatically defaults to whatever keeps house prices high.
    No - an interest rate of 4% destroys a housing market that prices things at 5-8 times average household earnings...

    It doesn't destroy the housing market - as there will always be forced sellers and willing buyers, what it does is return prices to sane levels...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    edited August 21
    Some more info from that Panelbase poll.


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