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Opinium has Starmer with an 8% “Best PM” lead over Truss – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 28 in General
Opinium has Starmer with an 8% “Best PM” lead over Truss – politicalbetting.com

Neither of the two Conservative leadership candidates currently perform well against Keir Starmer.> 29% think Starmer would be the best PM vs Rishi Sunak on 23% (+6 pt lead)> 31% tink Starmer would be the best PM vs Liz Truss on 23% (+8 pt lead) pic.twitter.com/VSvr1fluUT

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Comments

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,653
    edited August 20
    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    Edit: And First too!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,977

    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    The ghost of A. B. de P. Johnson grimaces at the inaugural feast.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    From Chris Curtis.....

    Here is the under the bonnet number that matters.

    13% of those who voted Tory at the last election say they will now vote Labour. This is *almost* 1997 levels of switching.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,094

    From Chris Curtis.....

    Here is the under the bonnet number that matters.

    13% of those who voted Tory at the last election say they will now vote Labour. This is *almost* 1997 levels of switching.

    And this is before the economic disaster hits fully this Winter.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,817
    Carnyx said:

    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    The ghost of A. B. de P. Johnson grimaces at the inaugural feast.
    Possible explanations:

    The public like Starmer's plan, even if it came from the Lib Dems and undoubtedly has holes in it. (Getting away with plans with holes is one of the few perks of opposition.)

    The public don't like the government's lack of a plan. Possibly fixable, but the public demand and Truss's instincts go in opposite directions.

    The public have made their mind up about Truss, in which case it's going to be damn hard to persuade them otherwise.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,307
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.08 Liz Truss 93%
    9.4 Rishi Sunak 11%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,955
    Intense Russian anti-aircraft artillery activity over Sevastopol tonight...

    https://www.twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1561056419989934082
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    Carnyx said:

    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    The ghost of A. B. de P. Johnson grimaces at the inaugural feast.
    Possible explanations:

    The public like Starmer's plan, even if it came from the Lib Dems and undoubtedly has holes in it. (Getting away with plans with holes is one of the few perks of opposition.)

    The public don't like the government's lack of a plan. Possibly fixable, but the public demand and Truss's instincts go in opposite directions.

    The public have made their mind up about Truss, in which case it's going to be damn hard to persuade them otherwise.
    The 'vote switch' phenomena in Opinium is new, theyve not been finding this level of switch before. Its a reaction to plan vs no plan. Brady is a fucking idiot going for this interminably long shitshow.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,817

    Carnyx said:

    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    The ghost of A. B. de P. Johnson grimaces at the inaugural feast.
    Possible explanations:

    The public like Starmer's plan, even if it came from the Lib Dems and undoubtedly has holes in it. (Getting away with plans with holes is one of the few perks of opposition.)

    The public don't like the government's lack of a plan. Possibly fixable, but the public demand and Truss's instincts go in opposite directions.

    The public have made their mind up about Truss, in which case it's going to be damn hard to persuade them otherwise.
    The 'vote switch' phenomena in Opinium is new, theyve not been finding this level of switch before. Its a reaction to plan vs no plan. Brady is a fucking idiot going for this interminably long shitshow.
    Though I'm not sure there's anything fundamental stopping Liz's campaign outlining their intentions... She has done that with tax changes, after all.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    Carnyx said:

    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    The ghost of A. B. de P. Johnson grimaces at the inaugural feast.
    Possible explanations:

    The public like Starmer's plan, even if it came from the Lib Dems and undoubtedly has holes in it. (Getting away with plans with holes is one of the few perks of opposition.)

    The public don't like the government's lack of a plan. Possibly fixable, but the public demand and Truss's instincts go in opposite directions.

    The public have made their mind up about Truss, in which case it's going to be damn hard to persuade them otherwise.
    The 'vote switch' phenomena in Opinium is new, theyve not been finding this level of switch before. Its a reaction to plan vs no plan. Brady is a fucking idiot going for this interminably long shitshow.
    Though I'm not sure there's anything fundamental stopping Liz's campaign outlining their intentions... She has done that with tax changes, after all.
    Well horse stable bolted etc but she probably ought to do that this week. Kwarteng has tonight in the Mail said 'help is coming', some details needed. The 'undecideds' are starting to decide, 2 weeks more pissing about and even a bounce won't touch the sides
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 27,599
    A question for those in the know on the law following on from the last thread.

    Is it illegal for a British citizen to join the regular armed forces of a foreign country? I am thinking of people like Rick Rescorla, the heroic Cornishman who served with the British Parachute Regiment but then joined the US 7th Cavalry and fought at Ia Drang under Hal Moore (who described as the best platoon leader he ever saw)

    Was he technically breaking the law? Or does it not apply to regular forces of allies - which would make sense?

    This is not meant to reignite the discussion from previously, just a matter of genuine interest.

    Incidentally, for anyone who has not heard of Rescorla and his life do read up about it. It ever there was a heroic figure it was him. He died on 911 but was responsible for saving over 2,500 Morgan Stanley employees in the South Tower.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,527

    Carnyx said:

    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    The ghost of A. B. de P. Johnson grimaces at the inaugural feast.
    Possible explanations:

    The public like Starmer's plan, even if it came from the Lib Dems and undoubtedly has holes in it. (Getting away with plans with holes is one of the few perks of opposition.)

    The public don't like the government's lack of a plan. Possibly fixable, but the public demand and Truss's instincts go in opposite directions.

    The public have made their mind up about Truss, in which case it's going to be damn hard to persuade them otherwise.
    The 'vote switch' phenomena in Opinium is new, theyve not been finding this level of switch before. Its a reaction to plan vs no plan. Brady is a fucking idiot going for this interminably long shitshow.
    Though I'm not sure there's anything fundamental stopping Liz's campaign outlining their intentions... She has done that with tax changes, after all.
    I think she's right to use the cover of this process to avoid outlining a plan. Otherwise it becomes a bidding war over who can chuck the most money at the energy companies, and prices will rise to match.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    Its pitiful. They are pretty much done. There will be no significant bounce, no poll lead and we have 2 and a quarter years of waiting time for a change of government.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,977
    edited August 20

    A question for those in the know on the law following on from the last thread.

    Is it illegal for a British citizen to join the regular armed forces of a foreign country? I am thinking of people like Rick Rescorla, the heroic Cornishman who served with the British Parachute Regiment but then joined the US 7th Cavalry and fought at Ia Drang under Hal Moore (who described as the best platoon leader he ever saw)

    Was he technically breaking the law? Or does it not apply to regular forces of allies - which would make sense?

    This is not meant to reignite the discussion from previously, just a matter of genuine interest.

    Incidentally, for anyone who has not heard of Rescorla and his life do read up about it. It ever there was a heroic figure it was him. He died on 911 but was responsible for saving over 2,500 Morgan Stanley employees in the South Tower.

    Had he perhaps become a US citizen? Wiki is not at all clear on the point.

    Edit: Does seem as if Nam came before the citizenship.

    'Born in Hayle, England in 1939, Rescorla served with the British Army in Cyprus and northern Rhodesia. In 1963, he immigrated to the United States and joined the Army. After graduating from Officer Candidate School, he fought in Vietnam as a second lieutenant with the 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry from 1965 to 1966. The following year, he became an American citizen.'

    https://www.911memorial.org/connect/blog/recognizing-war-hero-who-led-wtc-survivors-safety-911
    https://www.history.co.uk/articles/rick-rescorla-the-cornish-hero-of-911
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,301
    edited August 20

    A question for those in the know on the law following on from the last thread.

    Is it illegal for a British citizen to join the regular armed forces of a foreign country? I am thinking of people like Rick Rescorla, the heroic Cornishman who served with the British Parachute Regiment but then joined the US 7th Cavalry and fought at Ia Drang under Hal Moore (who described as the best platoon leader he ever saw)

    Was he technically breaking the law? Or does it not apply to regular forces of allies - which would make sense?

    This is not meant to reignite the discussion from previously, just a matter of genuine interest.

    Incidentally, for anyone who has not heard of Rescorla and his life do read up about it. It ever there was a heroic figure it was him. He died on 911 but was responsible for saving over 2,500 Morgan Stanley employees in the South Tower.

    Pretty sure a few Brits have joined the French Foreign Legion over the years, would be very surprised if it was illegal.

    Edit: on checking, lol.


  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,653
    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,977

    A question for those in the know on the law following on from the last thread.

    Is it illegal for a British citizen to join the regular armed forces of a foreign country? I am thinking of people like Rick Rescorla, the heroic Cornishman who served with the British Parachute Regiment but then joined the US 7th Cavalry and fought at Ia Drang under Hal Moore (who described as the best platoon leader he ever saw)

    Was he technically breaking the law? Or does it not apply to regular forces of allies - which would make sense?

    This is not meant to reignite the discussion from previously, just a matter of genuine interest.

    Incidentally, for anyone who has not heard of Rescorla and his life do read up about it. It ever there was a heroic figure it was him. He died on 911 but was responsible for saving over 2,500 Morgan Stanley employees in the South Tower.

    Pretty sure a few Brits have joined the French Foreign Legion over the years, would be very surprised if it was illegal.
    Tennyson briefly intervened in Spain in the 1830s IIRC - Carlists and all that.

    https://revistaselectronicas.ujaen.es/index.php/grove/article/view/2856
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,659

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    I mean.. that really wouldn’t surprise me
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045
    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,094

    Intense Russian anti-aircraft artillery activity over Sevastopol tonight...

    https://www.twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1561056419989934082

    Anyone would think they have ammo to spare looking at that.

  • Ruh roh, Liz already going down down down
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited August 20
    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1561069641086246912?t=IxEz4_2PoLPLAnnmWqlmvQ&s=19
    Truss hinting at a reverse ferret on energy bills but still in cloud cuckooland. The one good thing i see here is targetted help for small businesses is on the agenda re energy bills. Its a big thing missing from the Starmer plan
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,301
    “Solidarity with Sanna”

    Women in Finland are posting videos of themselves partying while tagging Prime Minister Sanna Marin.

    https://twitter.com/meghamohan/status/1560999055769030656?s=21&t=2ogukd59y8MvcVWC-7GTQg

    Will women in the UK be showing solidarity with Liz by making dim pronouncements and immediately recanting?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,415

    Carnyx said:

    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    The ghost of A. B. de P. Johnson grimaces at the inaugural feast.
    Possible explanations:

    The public like Starmer's plan, even if it came from the Lib Dems and undoubtedly has holes in it. (Getting away with plans with holes is one of the few perks of opposition.)

    The public don't like the government's lack of a plan. Possibly fixable, but the public demand and Truss's instincts go in opposite directions.

    The public have made their mind up about Truss, in which case it's going to be damn hard to persuade them otherwise.
    The 'vote switch' phenomena in Opinium is new, theyve not been finding this level of switch before. Its a reaction to plan vs no plan. Brady is a fucking idiot going for this interminably long shitshow.
    Choosing her over Sunak is a very odd choice. She's brings all the negative qualities to the Tory Party we thought we'd seen the back of when Thatcher went. I can't see a saving grace in her.

    The longer she's been on display the more crumpled the image has looked. Matthew Parris's description of "a planet-sized mass of overconfidence and ambition teetering upon a pinhead of a political brain" can't really be bettered

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September? It's 20th August.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September?? It surely has to be before that? Thats after the LD conference isnt it??
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,094

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    Its pitiful. They are pretty much done. There will be no significant bounce, no poll lead and we have 2 and a quarter years of waiting time for a change of government.
    Truss seems to be often underestimated but I doubt Gladstone himself could cope with the tsunami of problems she will face this winter. It is an utter shitstorm not seen since at least the 1970s and possibly 1930s.

    Swept away by the torrent would be my prediction. Leadership election next summer to rearrange deckchairs.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
  • @wooliedyed looks like the Truss bounce isn't going to materialise
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Roger said:

    Carnyx said:

    For goodness sake. Better of two. Neither of these.

    Does nobody learn grammar any more?

    The ghost of A. B. de P. Johnson grimaces at the inaugural feast.
    Possible explanations:

    The public like Starmer's plan, even if it came from the Lib Dems and undoubtedly has holes in it. (Getting away with plans with holes is one of the few perks of opposition.)

    The public don't like the government's lack of a plan. Possibly fixable, but the public demand and Truss's instincts go in opposite directions.

    The public have made their mind up about Truss, in which case it's going to be damn hard to persuade them otherwise.
    The 'vote switch' phenomena in Opinium is new, theyve not been finding this level of switch before. Its a reaction to plan vs no plan. Brady is a fucking idiot going for this interminably long shitshow.
    Choosing her over Sunak is a very odd choice. She's brings all the negative qualities to the Tory Party we thought we'd seen the back of when Thatcher went. I can't see a saving grace in her.

    The longer she's been on display the more crumpled the image has looked. Matthew Parris's description of "a planet-sized mass of overconfidence and ambition teetering upon a pinhead of a political brain" can't really be bettered

    Eurgh its all just garbage in politics now. A surfeit of turds. Even in sewage UK
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045
    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September? It's 20th August.
    That is the date suggested
  • nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September?? It surely has to be before that? Thats after the LD conference isnt it??
    The energy price cap rise is scheduled for 1 October. Cutting it tight to handle it having announcements on 21 September.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,504
    I don't think it's remotely surprising that the (Tory) government is slipping in the polls.

    The government has been missing in action for quite a long time now. This may not be that unusual in August, but this year it coincides with people/voters feeling somewhat anxious. And yet all they hear from their 'rulers' is silence, while the PM is on his second holiday and has clearly given up the job. It would have been better if BJ had simply gone and handed over the reins to Raab or whoever until the leadership was decided. But 'them's the breaks'.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 466
    I sympathise with Truss on the energy price issue as I don't think the Lib Dem and Labour plan is equitable. Relatively wealthy households that can afford the increase through either reductions in discretionary spending or savings shouldn't be subsidised by future generations as we load on more debt.

    The trouble is the Tories abandoned fiscal prudence and Truss has continued that in order to cut taxes, and so the above argument would ring hollow coming from her.

    The other problem is the general public disagrees with me on this issue and thinks the government should step in to help them. Even if they are well off. So Truss will likely offer some support that will be much less than proposed by the Opposition.

    So I don't think Truss will see any sustained poll bounce in these conditions.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,735
    I have just checked, no your not dreaming it the contest is taking longer than the 2019 General election
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September? It's 20th August.
    That is the date suggested
    That hardly fits my definition of "emergency".
  • EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    What the fuck
  • I don't think it's remotely surprising that the (Tory) government is slipping in the polls.

    The government has been missing in action for quite a long time now. This may not be that unusual in August, but this year it coincides with people/voters feeling somewhat anxious. And yet all they hear from their 'rulers' is silence, while the PM is on his second holiday and has clearly given up the job. It would have been better if BJ had simply gone and handed over the reins to Raab or whoever until the leadership was decided. But 'them's the breaks'.

    No, its better to do it the way its being done. Raab would have no authority to make decisions nor should he.

    Its for the new PM to make the decisions she wants to make. She could come to power if she chose to and have an emergency budget a few days later with any decisions of emergency importance. If she doesn't, that's her choice.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September?? It surely has to be before that? Thats after the LD conference isnt it??
    The energy price cap rise is scheduled for 1 October. Cutting it tight to handle it having announcements on 21 September.
    The house rises 22nd, is that time to debate and pass it?
  • Ratters said:

    I sympathise with Truss on the energy price issue as I don't think the Lib Dem and Labour plan is equitable. Relatively wealthy households that can afford the increase through either reductions in discretionary spending or savings shouldn't be subsidised by future generations as we load on more debt.

    The trouble is the Tories abandoned fiscal prudence and Truss has continued that in order to cut taxes, and so the above argument would ring hollow coming from her.

    The other problem is the general public disagrees with me on this issue and thinks the government should step in to help them. Even if they are well off. So Truss will likely offer some support that will be much less than proposed by the Opposition.

    So I don't think Truss will see any sustained poll bounce in these conditions.

    Labour has no plans

    Labour presents a plan

    Not like that!!!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    @wooliedyed looks like the Truss bounce isn't going to materialise

    I agree
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045
    Pulpstar said:

    I have just checked, no your not dreaming it the contest is taking longer than the 2019 General election

    I don't really like !!!
  • Starmer vs Truss
    Starmer: 31% (+3)
    Truss: 23% (-6)

    Starmer vs Sunak
    Starmer: 29% (+1)
    Sunak: 23% (-1)

    Fieldwork 18-19 August; changes w/ 3-5 Aug.

    Disaster for Truss
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    "Receives" isn't quite correct. Your leccy bill is credited with £60 each month AIUI.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September? It's 20th August.
    That is the date suggested
    That hardly fits my definition of "emergency".
    Its before the normally scheduled date. It ought to be late October. Its over a month before the 2021 Budget date.

    Bringing it forwards to September implies to me, if it happens, a plan to announce plans before the price cap rises. Otherwise the Budget should be after it has.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345
    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,094

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    What the fuck

    Only if you can get past the receptionist to get an actual appointment presumably.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    A package along these lines MIGHT turn things round politically, especially a 2 year freeze, but the cost will dwarf furlough and surely scuppers her other plans??! Or are we fully into nutternomics?!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045
    dixiedean said:

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    "Receives" isn't quite correct. Your leccy bill is credited with £60 each month AIUI.
    Fair comment and quite right to take it directly of the energy bill

    The main issue here is will this be extended and increased and will the price cap be cancelled for 2 years by Truss
  • Starmer vs Truss
    Starmer: 31% (+3)
    Truss: 23% (-6)

    Starmer vs Sunak
    Starmer: 29% (+1)
    Sunak: 23% (-1)

    Fieldwork 18-19 August; changes w/ 3-5 Aug.

    Disaster for Truss

    How's that a disaster?

    That's all to play for. Starmer having a meagre 8% lead with 46% expressing don't know after Starmer has announced his plan but before Truss announces her emergency budget seems very disappointing for Starmer.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,415

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    So putting the Brexit team back together. Like Cummings said "She's proper crackers!'
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,676

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September?? It surely has to be before that? Thats after the LD conference isnt it??
    The energy price cap rise is scheduled for 1 October. Cutting it tight to handle it having announcements on 21 September.
    "The October 2022 price cap will be announced next Friday (26 August)."

    https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/energy-price-cap-when-announced-ofgem-announcement-date-how-much-prices-rise-october-1803963

    Given both Truss and Sunak have said freezing the cap is not an option they would consider, they are going to have to do a very rapid u-turn next week to stave off a shitstorm of bad publicity.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    What the fuck

    What?! Wheres this from Horse?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045
    edited August 20

    Starmer vs Truss
    Starmer: 31% (+3)
    Truss: 23% (-6)

    Starmer vs Sunak
    Starmer: 29% (+1)
    Sunak: 23% (-1)

    Fieldwork 18-19 August; changes w/ 3-5 Aug.

    Disaster for Truss

    How's that a disaster?

    That's all to play for. Starmer having a meagre 8% lead with 46% expressing don't know after Starmer has announced his plan but before Truss announces her emergency budget seems very disappointing for Starmer.
    I think it is unwise to read anything into these polls before the emergency budget

    They do show a bounce for Starmer and labour, but also reflect the conservative party abdication from running the country this August
  • https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1561077534871228417

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,504
    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Corporal Jones will be performing colonoscopies, no doubt. "They don't like it up 'em".
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,659

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1561077534871228417

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    I really don’t understand what is reality and parody now
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,676

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1561077534871228417

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    WTAF?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703

    dixiedean said:

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    "Receives" isn't quite correct. Your leccy bill is credited with £60 each month AIUI.
    Fair comment and quite right to take it directly of the energy bill

    The main issue here is will this be extended and increased and will the price cap be cancelled for 2 years by Truss
    Well, that's one issue.

    The other is, if she does do that, how is it paid for?

    We have unfortunately due to the shortsightedness and procrastination of multiple governments over the last 30 years ended up in a situation where there are no good options.

    What's also frustrating is it was entirely foreseeable. Not necessarily Russia invading Ukraine for Putin to prove his penis size, but given where we get most of our oil and gas from and given it's running short anyway, it was inevitable there would be a huge price spike at some point unless we took drastic action to be ready for it.

    But because there would have been short term costs it just didn't happen.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,131

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    What the fuck

    Try getting a GP appointment before the end of winter.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 466

    Ratters said:

    I sympathise with Truss on the energy price issue as I don't think the Lib Dem and Labour plan is equitable. Relatively wealthy households that can afford the increase through either reductions in discretionary spending or savings shouldn't be subsidised by future generations as we load on more debt.

    The trouble is the Tories abandoned fiscal prudence and Truss has continued that in order to cut taxes, and so the above argument would ring hollow coming from her.

    The other problem is the general public disagrees with me on this issue and thinks the government should step in to help them. Even if they are well off. So Truss will likely offer some support that will be much less than proposed by the Opposition.

    So I don't think Truss will see any sustained poll bounce in these conditions.

    Labour has no plans

    Labour presents a plan

    Not like that!!!
    I have always opposed the government as much as you, but I can still criticise the Lib Dem / Labour plan as a load of unfunded rubbish that will make things worse over the long-term.

    It works well politically from opposition because it's easy to understand. But it would be a very poor policy in government, rather than something more targeted.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    A package along these lines MIGHT turn things round politically, especially a 2 year freeze, but the cost will dwarf furlough and surely scuppers her other plans??! Or are we fully into nutternomics?!
    Seems it is a very complex financial package put forward by the energy companies and is in discussion with the government and why I suggest it is prudent to wait for a detailed announcement if indeed it is agreed
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703
    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Who's going to solve the crisis in teaching?

    (Btw, any joy with your DBS yet?)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,676

    dixiedean said:

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    "Receives" isn't quite correct. Your leccy bill is credited with £60 each month AIUI.
    Fair comment and quite right to take it directly of the energy bill

    The main issue here is will this be extended and increased and will the price cap be cancelled for 2 years by Truss
    Er... cancelling the price cap would see prices go up even further surely?
  • nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September?? It surely has to be before that? Thats after the LD conference isnt it??
    The energy price cap rise is scheduled for 1 October. Cutting it tight to handle it having announcements on 21 September.
    "The October 2022 price cap will be announced next Friday (26 August)."

    https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/energy-price-cap-when-announced-ofgem-announcement-date-how-much-prices-rise-october-1803963

    Given both Truss and Sunak have said freezing the cap is not an option they would consider, they are going to have to do a very rapid u-turn next week to stave off a shitstorm of bad publicity.
    Alternatively freezing the cap is a bad idea, removing the price signal so people aren't encouraged to save energy making blackouts as we run out of energy more likely.

    The cap is going up because there's a shortage of energy. Freezing the cap doesn't fix that.

    Having the cap rise, but providing whatever support is deemed appropriate post-cap rise is far more logical.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345
    The October price cap will be announced Friday.
    The BofE meets September 15 to push rates up another 50 basis points (probably).
    So there is some scope for a way to fall in the next month.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,094
    Truss says whatever she thinks the audience in front of her wants to hear. The attack on the BBC over facts yesterday because she was on GB news being the latest example.

    An approach that will quickly unravel me thinks.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,084
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Who's going to solve the crisis in teaching?

    (Btw, any joy with your DBS yet?)
    Liz will sweep away the culture of low expectations, and all will be fine.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045
    edited August 20

    dixiedean said:

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    "Receives" isn't quite correct. Your leccy bill is credited with £60 each month AIUI.
    Fair comment and quite right to take it directly of the energy bill

    The main issue here is will this be extended and increased and will the price cap be cancelled for 2 years by Truss
    Er... cancelling the price cap would see prices go up even further surely?
    Labour have already proposed a 6 month freeze but this scheme is 2 years and is on the table apparently

    This seems to be the scheme in discussion

    https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/08/15/fresh-calls-for-price-cap-freeze/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Cyclefree said:

    There are 2 aspects to the energy costs: the effects on households, which dominates the discussion and the effect on businesses, less talked about.

    Something has to be done for both. Because if it isn't a lot of businesses will close and unemployment will rise.

    Truss at least mentions direct support to small business re energy in her interview with KF in the Sun tonight
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Who's going to solve the crisis in teaching?

    (Btw, any joy with your DBS yet?)
    No one. And no.
    There won't be any Dad's Army or any bastard else if they can't get DBS back.
    Seven weeks and counting.
  • Cyclefree said:

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    What the fuck

    Try getting a GP appointment before the end of winter.
    My new GP is great. Registered with them earlier this year, haven't needed to see a GP in years before now, but needed to twice in recent months and both times got a same-day appointment and second time got a referral to see a physio the next week too. They've been really friendly, the receptionists even are friendly and helpful, its like going into a parallel universe from all the normal stereotypes.
  • Cyclefree said:

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    What the fuck

    Try getting a GP appointment before the end of winter.
    My new GP is great. Registered with them earlier this year, haven't needed to see a GP in years before now, but needed to twice in recent months and both times got a same-day appointment and second time got a referral to see a physio the next week too. They've been really friendly, the receptionists even are friendly and helpful, its like going into a parallel universe from all the normal stereotypes.
    Do you honestly think this policy is a good idea
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345
    Sorry. Was that post by Horse re getting a prescription for your energy bills actually genuine?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,301

    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Corporal Jones will be performing colonoscopies, no doubt. "They don't like it up 'em".
    Except if you’re royal allegedly, and they go private anyway.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,084
    Surprisingly, they do accept Englishmen…

    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1561070599539249152
    … One of my friends had served in a Legion and judging from his observations, the Legion does not accept:

    1. Muslims
    2. Communists

    Everyone else is welcome, including the Western European Neo-Nazis with swastikas/eagles all over their chest. Nobody cares…

    … They would not accept you though if they think you are mental. Like one Swedish Neo-Nazi told to an interviewer he wants to join the Legion to die in battle and get to Valhalla. Rejected. …
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345

    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Corporal Jones will be performing colonoscopies, no doubt. "They don't like it up 'em".
    Private Fraser can break the news of a terminal diagnosis.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    dixiedean said:

    Sorry. Was that post by Horse re getting a prescription for your energy bills actually genuine?

    It appears so although i predict zero chance of it being adopted
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876

    I don't think it's remotely surprising that the (Tory) government is slipping in the polls.

    The government has been missing in action for quite a long time now. This may not be that unusual in August, but this year it coincides with people/voters feeling somewhat anxious. And yet all they hear from their 'rulers' is silence, while the PM is on his second holiday and has clearly given up the job. It would have been better if BJ had simply gone and handed over the reins to Raab or whoever until the leadership was decided. But 'them's the breaks'.

    No, its better to do it the way its being done. Raab would have no authority to make decisions nor should he.

    Its for the new PM to make the decisions she wants to make. She could come to power if she chose to and have an emergency budget a few days later with any decisions of emergency importance. If she doesn't, that's her choice.
    It smacks of sunny Jim's "crisis, what crisis?" approach. It isn't playing well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Who's going to solve the crisis in teaching?

    (Btw, any joy with your DBS yet?)
    No one. And no.
    There won't be any Dad's Army or any bastard else if they can't get DBS back.
    Seven weeks and counting.
    Well, that's crazy. I have to say that's also not my experience of them, I've never had to wait more than a fortnight. Very disappointing and frustrating for you and bad news for the schools around you who are going to miss out on your help.

    I hope it gets sorted soon. This may sound silly but - is there any way you could apply again via another organisation and see if that works?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,605

    Starmer vs Truss
    Starmer: 31% (+3)
    Truss: 23% (-6)

    Starmer vs Sunak
    Starmer: 29% (+1)
    Sunak: 23% (-1)

    Fieldwork 18-19 August; changes w/ 3-5 Aug.

    Disaster for Truss

    How's that a disaster?

    That's all to play for. Starmer having a meagre 8% lead with 46% expressing don't know after Starmer has announced his plan but before Truss announces her emergency budget seems very disappointing for Starmer.
    image

    :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,676
    edited August 20

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September?? It surely has to be before that? Thats after the LD conference isnt it??
    The energy price cap rise is scheduled for 1 October. Cutting it tight to handle it having announcements on 21 September.
    "The October 2022 price cap will be announced next Friday (26 August)."

    https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/energy-price-cap-when-announced-ofgem-announcement-date-how-much-prices-rise-october-1803963

    Given both Truss and Sunak have said freezing the cap is not an option they would consider, they are going to have to do a very rapid u-turn next week to stave off a shitstorm of bad publicity.
    Alternatively freezing the cap is a bad idea, removing the price signal so people aren't encouraged to save energy making blackouts as we run out of energy more likely.

    The cap is going up because there's a shortage of energy. Freezing the cap doesn't fix that.

    Having the cap rise, but providing whatever support is deemed appropriate post-cap rise is far more logical.
    Freezing the energy price cap will reduce inflation, which saves HMG some costs by limiting the amount benefits increase (the September CPI is used, I believe).

    Of course, freezing the cap will cost more than is saved, but it would be interesting to try to work through the calculation.

    The costs of freezing the cap at the current £1,971 average, rather than allowing it to go to the suggested £3,582 (according to MSE) is what?... £1,600 * 28m households = £45bn pa. approx.?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703
    Cyclefree said:

    There are 2 aspects to the energy costs: the effects on households, which dominates the discussion and the effect on businesses, less talked about.

    Something has to be done for both. Because if it isn't a lot of businesses will close and unemployment will rise.

    Also, you wonder what the effect on charities will be. That especially includes foodbanks...
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,149

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September?? It surely has to be before that? Thats after the LD conference isnt it??
    The energy price cap rise is scheduled for 1 October. Cutting it tight to handle it having announcements on 21 September.
    "The October 2022 price cap will be announced next Friday (26 August)."

    https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/energy-price-cap-when-announced-ofgem-announcement-date-how-much-prices-rise-october-1803963

    Given both Truss and Sunak have said freezing the cap is not an option they would consider, they are going to have to do a very rapid u-turn next week to stave off a shitstorm of bad publicity.
    Alternatively freezing the cap is a bad idea, removing the price signal so people aren't encouraged to save energy making blackouts as we run out of energy more likely.

    The cap is going up because there's a shortage of energy. Freezing the cap doesn't fix that.

    Having the cap rise, but providing whatever support is deemed appropriate post-cap rise is far more logical.
    Both a fiddle of the price cap and this wacky scheme involving GP surgeries have something important in common: to find some fix that doesn't involve either doing nothing (mass deaths and rioting) or putting up benefits (which, as we all know from Conservative theory, can be any sum we like for pensioners but should be as minuscule as possible for everyone else, to discourage fecklessness and sponging by the undeserving poor.)

    Personally I think the Government would rather allow the poor to freeze or starve to death, but there's only so far even they can go in their cruelty and so a price cap fiddle seems the most likely solution. AIUI the energy companies have already proposed a scheme involving a state-subsidised freeze to get us over the next couple of years, on the assumption that the current massive price hike will be temporary, rather than plateauing at the current level. The sums borrowed will presumably be compensated for by more taxes for proles aged under 66 (not pensioners, and not the rich either) further down the road.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,905
    Is this the first negative honeymoon in political history? Where a ruling party decides it can't go on like this, get a new broom and its vote share falls even further?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,519
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Corporal Jones will be performing colonoscopies, no doubt. "They don't like it up 'em".
    Private Fraser can break the news of a terminal diagnosis.
    Private Walker will provide the PPE at a good price.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345
    edited August 20
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Who's going to solve the crisis in teaching?

    (Btw, any joy with your DBS yet?)
    No one. And no.
    There won't be any Dad's Army or any bastard else if they can't get DBS back.
    Seven weeks and counting.
    Well, that's crazy. I have to say that's also not my experience of them, I've never had to wait more than a fortnight. Very disappointing and frustrating for you and bad news for the schools around you who are going to miss out on your help.

    I hope it gets sorted soon. This may sound silly but - is there any way you could apply again via another organisation and see if that works?
    Already done.
    They are very good. They send me an email every week to say no news.
    I didn't have any issues in the past either. And I've lived in the same Police authority for 16 years during which time I had several. Have only moved house once in that time.
    I don't know if this is at all typical, but, if it is, it's a new scandal about to break. I applied well before the end of last term.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    I see a Dad's Army of retired doctors and nurses will solve the NHS.

    Corporal Jones will be performing colonoscopies, no doubt. "They don't like it up 'em".
    Private Fraser can break the news of a terminal diagnosis.
    Private Walker will provide the PPE at a good price.
    And Sergeant Wilson will always offer a second opinion.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,527
    edited August 20

    nico679 said:

    Whilst this Tory leadership campaign continues many people will be reducing their spending as they don’t know what sort of help might be on offer in the autumn .

    So by the time the Maggie clone moves into no 10 the economy will be nose diving . This really wasn’t the time for this length of leadership campaign and Brady should have decided on a short one or better still not give the final decision to the members .

    In effect by the time Truss gets her likely bottom of the barrel cabinet team together and they have decided on a course of action re the energy costs the ship will be taking on water and about to sink .

    I largely agree and Brady together with the 1922 committee must shoulder responsibility for the abdication of the government through an unnecessary long contest

    The polls are reflecting the reality for the conservative party that the electorate have lost all patience with them

    As a conservative supporter I acknowledge Strarmer has put the ball in the net, (for the first time) and he must be favourite for next PM

    I do understand things are going on in the a background and I agree that Truss is best not revealing anything at this stage, as really things are as much near rock bottom as they could be

    The critical moment will be the emergency budget on the 21st September, and unless a serious package of help is announced the conservatives are heading into deserved opposition

    I would comment I have not rejoined yet but no matter I do remain a conservative but a very disillusioned and annoyed one
    21st September?? It surely has to be before that? Thats after the LD conference isnt it??
    The energy price cap rise is scheduled for 1 October. Cutting it tight to handle it having announcements on 21 September.
    "The October 2022 price cap will be announced next Friday (26 August)."

    https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/energy-price-cap-when-announced-ofgem-announcement-date-how-much-prices-rise-october-1803963

    Given both Truss and Sunak have said freezing the cap is not an option they would consider, they are going to have to do a very rapid u-turn next week to stave off a shitstorm of bad publicity.
    Alternatively freezing the cap is a bad idea, removing the price signal so people aren't encouraged to save energy making blackouts as we run out of energy more likely.

    The cap is going up because there's a shortage of energy. Freezing the cap doesn't fix that.

    Having the cap rise, but providing whatever support is deemed appropriate post-cap rise is far more logical.
    No. The cap is rising because utility companies are increasing their prices. Yes, the wholesale gas price is rising, but the two are not correlated directly.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,676

    dixiedean said:

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    "Receives" isn't quite correct. Your leccy bill is credited with £60 each month AIUI.
    Fair comment and quite right to take it directly of the energy bill

    The main issue here is will this be extended and increased and will the price cap be cancelled for 2 years by Truss
    Er... cancelling the price cap would see prices go up even further surely?
    Labour have already proposed a 6 month freeze but this scheme is 2 years and is on the table apparently

    This seems to be the scheme in discussion

    https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/08/15/fresh-calls-for-price-cap-freeze/
    You mean freezing the cap, not cancelling it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,817

    dixiedean said:

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    "Receives" isn't quite correct. Your leccy bill is credited with £60 each month AIUI.
    Fair comment and quite right to take it directly of the energy bill

    The main issue here is will this be extended and increased and will the price cap be cancelled for 2 years by Truss
    Er... cancelling the price cap would see prices go up even further surely?
    Labour have already proposed a 6 month freeze but this scheme is 2 years and is on the table apparently

    This seems to be the scheme in discussion

    https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/08/15/fresh-calls-for-price-cap-freeze/
    Here's the key phrase;

    The fund could be underwritten by the government, or a willing financial institution, and repaid over a 10-15 year period to smooth out the costs.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,045

    dixiedean said:

    Tory strategy to combat rising energy bills - increase the Winter Fuel Payment so only pensioners get to benefit.

    As I understand it everyone receives £400 in 6 equal installments from October and £650 is to be paid in two equal installments between July and in the autumn to all those on UC and benefits, and upto £600 winter fuel allowance to pensioners

    37 billion has been spent to date and as I said earlier the emergency budget is needed to increase these payments

    I understand the government is in discussion with the energy suppliers to cancel the rise for 2 years in energy costs and this is one to look out for in the emergency budget
    "Receives" isn't quite correct. Your leccy bill is credited with £60 each month AIUI.
    Fair comment and quite right to take it directly of the energy bill

    The main issue here is will this be extended and increased and will the price cap be cancelled for 2 years by Truss
    Er... cancelling the price cap would see prices go up even further surely?
    Labour have already proposed a 6 month freeze but this scheme is 2 years and is on the table apparently

    This seems to be the scheme in discussion

    https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/08/15/fresh-calls-for-price-cap-freeze/
    You mean freezing the cap, not cancelling it.
    Yes
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited August 20
    FF43 said:

    Is this the first negative honeymoon in political history? Where a ruling party decides it can't go on like this, get a new broom and its vote share falls even further?

    Any bounce usually doesnt transpire until the new PM is in place. Not that im expecting one!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1561077534871228417

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    "Their doctor would chat to the patient and verify they needed help - either because they were sick, elderly or just in need.

    The GP would then effectively write a prescription saying the person should get money off their bills."

    It takes a GP to establish that you are old, or poor?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,149
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    There are 2 aspects to the energy costs: the effects on households, which dominates the discussion and the effect on businesses, less talked about.

    Something has to be done for both. Because if it isn't a lot of businesses will close and unemployment will rise.

    Also, you wonder what the effect on charities will be. That especially includes foodbanks...
    The food bank system is f**ked. One of the first things that middle class donors will do when they have to start tightening their own belts is stop giving. Indeed, reports suggest that this has already begun.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,131
    edited August 20

    Cyclefree said:

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    What the fuck

    Try getting a GP appointment before the end of winter.
    My new GP is great. Registered with them earlier this year, haven't needed to see a GP in years before now, but needed to twice in recent months and both times got a same-day appointment and second time got a referral to see a physio the next week too. They've been really friendly, the receptionists even are friendly and helpful, its like going into a parallel universe from all the normal stereotypes.
    Good for you.

    Daughter currently has a painful internal infection. On antibiotics. They are not making it better. As this has happened repeatedly in recent months, the GP wants to do some tests and asked for a sample - provided.

    But no joy in getting a time to speak to the GP. The only times are when Daughter is working (she's doing a new job organising & running weddings and cannot simply drop everything to wait for the GP to call). So now the next phone appointment just to get the result of one test is 3 weeks away. Meanwhile she's in pain and God knows what's happening inside: a kidney infection? Appendicitis? Something else? Blood in urine is not a good sign.

    If we can't get to a GP it will have to be A&E.

    It is no use the NHS advising people to stay away from A&E if primary care can't do its job. The GPsare fine when you get to talk to them. But the whole administration seems not to realise that working patients can't drop everything to wait by the phone. It seems designed to make it as hard as possible to see a bloody doctor.

    By contrast seeing a vet is dead easy, quick & convenient.

    It's notable that on the 4 recent occasions when Husband and I have needed medical help we had to go to A&E because the GP simply was not available. No wonder A&E departments are under stress. But lecturing patients isn't the answer either.

    I am seriously considering finding a private GP.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,977
    edited August 20
    Cyclefree said:

    EXCL - Latest on Treasury plans to ease the cost of living crisis.

    GPs would be able to write prescriptions to give needy Brits money off their energy bills under proposals.

    The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.

    What the fuck

    Try getting a GP appointment before the end of winter.
    Feature not bug.

    Or am I being a tad too cynical?
This discussion has been closed.