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DefSec Wallace now firm favourite for next PM – politicalbetting.com

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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,566
    edited July 2022

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It's because there was effectively a war situation until yesterday (in a British political sense), and now it's a ceasefire. Totally different state of affairs and atmosphere, now that the leadership contest is under way.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,559

    So the CSS Shenandoah refused to surrender at the end of our great Civil War -- just like two -- if I recall correctly -- Nazi submarines that refused to surrender at the end of WW II, but instead headed for Argentina.

    Another similarity: Some Confederates went to South America, although to Brazil rather than Argentina. (Slavery was legal in Brazil until 1888 -- and was practiced long before the Portuguese arrived. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Brazil )

    Several books written about CSS Shenandoah, including one by Murray Morgan, also author of "Skid Row".

    As for the Confederate Brazilians, have a book somewhere by guy whose great-grandparents were part of that emigration. Had relatives in (I think) Georgia he visited while going to college in US, and ended up working for US Foreign Service in Brazil. During the Carter Administration, President made official visit to Brazil which (thanks to the book's author) included stop in Villa Americana, which was founded by Confederates.

    One very interest thing the author said, was that while the Confederates, most of whom brought (at least some of) their slaves with the, were keen (like many immigrant groups there traditionally) to resist assimilation into Brazilian society as much as possible. Including encouraging their children to marry fellow Rebs, as opposed to locals.

    Now here's the twist. In a generation or so after they'd left the USA, for specific purpose of maintaining the Southern Way of Life in all it's splendor, these Confederates were still urging their offspring to find suitable mates from within their own community.

    Which in their eyes now included Black as well as Whites who had fled Dixie for WAY down south.

    Pretty mind blowing for anyone who spent time hanging around Southern USA in 20th let alone 19th century.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    T May is very different from Boris Johnson............
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,559

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    In theory and in past practice, UK caretaker administrations have been reasonably civilized and generally competent at minding the store for several weeks. In the national interest, and in cognizance of fact that they are under even more intense scrutiny than per usual. Plus civil service has tradition of being en garde at such times to overly & overtly political requests & orders by caretaker ministers.

    Of course also depends a lot on the ministers themselves. And prime minister in particular will by definition retain tremendous authority and still wield plenty of power. Unless of course one thinks that Churchill really curbed himself all that much as War Lord between VE-Day and his subsequent defeat in 1945 general election.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    In theory and in past practice, UK caretaker administrations have been reasonably civilized and generally competent at minding the store for several weeks. In the national interest, and in cognizance of fact that they are under even more intense scrutiny than per usual. Plus civil service has tradition of being en garde at such times to overly & overtly political requests & orders by caretaker ministers.

    Of course also depends a lot on the ministers themselves. And prime minister in particular will by definition retain tremendous authority and still wield plenty of power. Unless of course one thinks that Churchill really curbed himself all that much as War Lord between VE-Day and his subsequent defeat in 1945 general election.
    What precisely do you think is the danger from leaving Boris as PM while the leadership election takes place?
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    In theory and in past practice, UK caretaker administrations have been reasonably civilized and generally competent at minding the store for several weeks. In the national interest, and in cognizance of fact that they are under even more intense scrutiny than per usual. Plus civil service has tradition of being en garde at such times to overly & overtly political requests & orders by caretaker ministers.

    Of course also depends a lot on the ministers themselves. And prime minister in particular will by definition retain tremendous authority and still wield plenty of power. Unless of course one thinks that Churchill really curbed himself all that much as War Lord between VE-Day and his subsequent defeat in 1945 general election.
    What precisely do you think is the danger from leaving Boris as PM while the leadership election takes place?
    doesnt he need to carry out the following: appoint (another) standards commissioner, be investigated by the privileges committee, possibly face various Committees not to mention a range of peerages to be awarded.... his own brother being a good example of his cronyism under such circumstances
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    edited July 2022

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    In theory and in past practice, UK caretaker administrations have been reasonably civilized and generally competent at minding the store for several weeks. In the national interest, and in cognizance of fact that they are under even more intense scrutiny than per usual. Plus civil service has tradition of being en garde at such times to overly & overtly political requests & orders by caretaker ministers.

    Of course also depends a lot on the ministers themselves. And prime minister in particular will by definition retain tremendous authority and still wield plenty of power. Unless of course one thinks that Churchill really curbed himself all that much as War Lord between VE-Day and his subsequent defeat in 1945 general election.
    What precisely do you think is the danger from leaving Boris as PM while the leadership election takes place?
    doesnt he need to carry out the following: appoint (another) standards commissioner, be investigated by the privileges committee, possibly face various Committees not to mention a range of peerages to be awarded.... his own brother being a good example of his cronyism under such circumstances
    Not to mention.... what the heck do you do about NI, the EU and the protocol, this `breaking' of Intl law (at a time of global crisis) plus some very pressing issues such as Ukraine, the role of Chancellor means a simple caretaker concept doesnt apply - he Summer of '19 seems a lifetime ago
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,559

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    In theory and in past practice, UK caretaker administrations have been reasonably civilized and generally competent at minding the store for several weeks. In the national interest, and in cognizance of fact that they are under even more intense scrutiny than per usual. Plus civil service has tradition of being en garde at such times to overly & overtly political requests & orders by caretaker ministers.

    Of course also depends a lot on the ministers themselves. And prime minister in particular will by definition retain tremendous authority and still wield plenty of power. Unless of course one thinks that Churchill really curbed himself all that much as War Lord between VE-Day and his subsequent defeat in 1945 general election.
    What precisely do you think is the danger from leaving Boris as PM while the leadership election takes place?
    I'm risk adverse. But we shall see. Certainly is in his own interest to clean up his act for the duration.

    However, Boris Johnson DOES like life in the fast lane (to put it mildly) and can't always hold the curves. OR obey traffic signs and avoid potholes. Plus likes to cruise peddle to the metal, with a floozy by his side, a spliff behind his ear, and a half-full bottle of Everclear (or reasonable UK substitute) rolling around on the floor.

    But no precise, specific objection or danger-pointing by yours truly. Just a feeling, but a feeling strengthened in the last couple days.

    Do think it might be wiser to have someone like Wallace as caretaker, though I'd have no objection (as though my opinion is worth as much as 2-pence, or even 2-cents) to Johnson being in the cabinet, as minister w/o portfolio. IF it helps things along. A very small measure of trust for a heaping helping of verification.

    One big concern I have (that you may find ironic) is Ukraine. And one big way that Boris could salvage something from his mess, and prove me and plenty others at least a wee bit wrong,is by doing what he can reasonably but sincerely achieve, during the caretakership and beyond, to assist Ukraine, for example re: armaments and refugees.

    IF Johnson still retains some quasi-credible credibility - not for past triumphs but for both past and future - surely it for his words and actions for Ukraine since Putin invaded.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    In theory and in past practice, UK caretaker administrations have been reasonably civilized and generally competent at minding the store for several weeks. In the national interest, and in cognizance of fact that they are under even more intense scrutiny than per usual. Plus civil service has tradition of being en garde at such times to overly & overtly political requests & orders by caretaker ministers.

    Of course also depends a lot on the ministers themselves. And prime minister in particular will by definition retain tremendous authority and still wield plenty of power. Unless of course one thinks that Churchill really curbed himself all that much as War Lord between VE-Day and his subsequent defeat in 1945 general election.
    What precisely do you think is the danger from leaving Boris as PM while the leadership election takes place?
    I'm risk adverse. But we shall see. Certainly is in his own interest to clean up his act for the duration.

    However, Boris Johnson DOES like life in the fast lane (to put it mildly) and can't always hold the curves. OR obey traffic signs and avoid potholes. Plus likes to cruise peddle to the metal, with a floozy by his side, a spliff behind his ear, and a half-full bottle of Everclear (or reasonable UK substitute) rolling around on the floor.

    But no precise, specific objection or danger-pointing by yours truly. Just a feeling, but a feeling strengthened in the last couple days.

    Do think it might be wiser to have someone like Wallace as caretaker, though I'd have no objection (as though my opinion is worth as much as 2-pence, or even 2-cents) to Johnson being in the cabinet, as minister w/o portfolio. IF it helps things along. A very small measure of trust for a heaping helping of verification.

    One big concern I have (that you may find ironic) is Ukraine. And one big way that Boris could salvage something from his mess, and prove me and plenty others at least a wee bit wrong,is by doing what he can reasonably but sincerely achieve, during the caretakership and beyond, to assist Ukraine, for example re: armaments and refugees.

    IF Johnson still retains some quasi-credible credibility - not for past triumphs but for both past and future - surely it for his words and actions for Ukraine since Putin invaded.
    without wanting to sound too cynical BJ has exploited Ukraine's disaster at every turn to promote himself, you could argue the UK's position has been very much about BJ the `saviour', the UK already had put itself at the forefront of supporting Ukraine since 2014 and this is just a continuation of this policy..albeit on steroids since the Russians invaded
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,566
    "Brexiteer MP Andrea Jenkyns sticks middle finger up at 'Bye Boris' fans at Downing Street"

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1637040/Boris-Johnson-resignation-speech-latest-Andrea-Jenkyns-crowd-Downing-Street-vn
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    edited July 2022

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    In theory and in past practice, UK caretaker administrations have been reasonably civilized and generally competent at minding the store for several weeks. In the national interest, and in cognizance of fact that they are under even more intense scrutiny than per usual. Plus civil service has tradition of being en garde at such times to overly & overtly political requests & orders by caretaker ministers.

    Of course also depends a lot on the ministers themselves. And prime minister in particular will by definition retain tremendous authority and still wield plenty of power. Unless of course one thinks that Churchill really curbed himself all that much as War Lord between VE-Day and his subsequent defeat in 1945 general election.
    What precisely do you think is the danger from leaving Boris as PM while the leadership election takes place?
    I'm risk adverse. But we shall see. Certainly is in his own interest to clean up his act for the duration.

    However, Boris Johnson DOES like life in the fast lane (to put it mildly) and can't always hold the curves. OR obey traffic signs and avoid potholes. Plus likes to cruise peddle to the metal, with a floozy by his side, a spliff behind his ear, and a half-full bottle of Everclear (or reasonable UK substitute) rolling around on the floor.

    But no precise, specific objection or danger-pointing by yours truly. Just a feeling, but a feeling strengthened in the last couple days.

    Do think it might be wiser to have someone like Wallace as caretaker, though I'd have no objection (as though my opinion is worth as much as 2-pence, or even 2-cents) to Johnson being in the cabinet, as minister w/o portfolio. IF it helps things along. A very small measure of trust for a heaping helping of verification.

    One big concern I have (that you may find ironic) is Ukraine. And one big way that Boris could salvage something from his mess, and prove me and plenty others at least a wee bit wrong,is by doing what he can reasonably but sincerely achieve, during the caretakership and beyond, to assist Ukraine, for example re: armaments and refugees.

    IF Johnson still retains some quasi-credible credibility - not for past triumphs but for both past and future - surely it for his words and actions for Ukraine since Putin invaded.
    Another way of looking at the last couple of days is that he proved that he was not simply interested in the job out of self-interest but because he had a genuine passion for it. That's why he clung on tenaciously, as Gordon Brown and Theresa May did before him when they faced party coups, otherwise he would have walked away and cashed in.

    You're well read in political history so I don't know why you insist on seeing contemporary politics through the crude binary lens of "Putinism" vs the good guys.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,566
    "Shinzo Abe, former Japan prime minister, shot during speech – report
    Former PM collapses after gunshots reportedly heard while he spoke in the city of Nara"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/shinzo-abe-former-japan-prime-minister-shot-during-speech-reports
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,956
    Andy_JS said:

    "Shinzo Abe, former Japan prime minister, shot during speech – report
    Former PM collapses after gunshots reportedly heard while he spoke in the city of Nara"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/shinzo-abe-former-japan-prime-minister-shot-during-speech-reports

    "Ex-Tokyo governor Yoichi Masuzoe said in a tweet that Mr Abe was in a state of cardiopulmonary arrest. ... Ex-Tokyo governor Yoichi Masuzoe said in a tweet that Mr Abe was in a state of cardiopulmonary arrest."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62089486
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,559

    Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.

    It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
    In theory and in past practice, UK caretaker administrations have been reasonably civilized and generally competent at minding the store for several weeks. In the national interest, and in cognizance of fact that they are under even more intense scrutiny than per usual. Plus civil service has tradition of being en garde at such times to overly & overtly political requests & orders by caretaker ministers.

    Of course also depends a lot on the ministers themselves. And prime minister in particular will by definition retain tremendous authority and still wield plenty of power. Unless of course one thinks that Churchill really curbed himself all that much as War Lord between VE-Day and his subsequent defeat in 1945 general election.
    What precisely do you think is the danger from leaving Boris as PM while the leadership election takes place?
    I'm risk adverse. But we shall see. Certainly is in his own interest to clean up his act for the duration.

    However, Boris Johnson DOES like life in the fast lane (to put it mildly) and can't always hold the curves. OR obey traffic signs and avoid potholes. Plus likes to cruise peddle to the metal, with a floozy by his side, a spliff behind his ear, and a half-full bottle of Everclear (or reasonable UK substitute) rolling around on the floor.

    But no precise, specific objection or danger-pointing by yours truly. Just a feeling, but a feeling strengthened in the last couple days.

    Do think it might be wiser to have someone like Wallace as caretaker, though I'd have no objection (as though my opinion is worth as much as 2-pence, or even 2-cents) to Johnson being in the cabinet, as minister w/o portfolio. IF it helps things along. A very small measure of trust for a heaping helping of verification.

    One big concern I have (that you may find ironic) is Ukraine. And one big way that Boris could salvage something from his mess, and prove me and plenty others at least a wee bit wrong,is by doing what he can reasonably but sincerely achieve, during the caretakership and beyond, to assist Ukraine, for example re: armaments and refugees.

    IF Johnson still retains some quasi-credible credibility - not for past triumphs but for both past and future - surely it for his words and actions for Ukraine since Putin invaded.
    Another way of looking at the last couple of days is that he proved that he was not simply interested in the job out of self-interest but because he had a genuine passion for it. That's why he clung on tenaciously, as Gordon Brown and Theresa May did before him when they faced party coups, otherwise he would have walked away and cashed in.

    You're well read in political history so I don't know why you insist on seeing contemporary politics through the crude binary lens of "Putinism" vs the good guys.
    I've had Boris Johnson pegged as a world-class crap-head for a VERY long time. Same with 45. Both before they got into running for office. Play with shadow puppets all you want, whatever floats your boat, or fuels your Weltanschauung.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,566
    edited July 2022
    Gavin Williamson has confirmed he will be standing for the leadership.

    Only joking. He isn't really.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955

    Andy_JS said:

    "Shinzo Abe, former Japan prime minister, shot during speech – report
    Former PM collapses after gunshots reportedly heard while he spoke in the city of Nara"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/shinzo-abe-former-japan-prime-minister-shot-during-speech-reports

    "Ex-Tokyo governor Yoichi Masuzoe said in a tweet that Mr Abe was in a state of cardiopulmonary arrest. ... Ex-Tokyo governor Yoichi Masuzoe said in a tweet that Mr Abe was in a state of cardiopulmonary arrest."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62089486
    Wait. He said it twice?
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    If he said it twice, then he said he's the ex-ex-governor. Does that make him the governor?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Chickens coming home to roost in Germany:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-07/germany-s-habeck-urges-canada-to-help-thwart-putin-s-gas-excuses

    “Gas excuses” = “ship turbine to Putin”
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Carrie Antoinette….

    Items ordered by Mr Johnson and wife Carrie from upmarket interior designer Lulu Lytle include a £3,675 drinks trolley said to be like the one owned in Paris by ballet dancer Rudolph Nureyev

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-wallpaper-gold-flat-carrie-invoice-b2118185.html
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341
    edited July 2022
    rcs1000 said:
    iirc one of these "net worth" sites listed Jonathan Ross as a billionaire because they'd got the wrong Jane Goldman as his wife. Tbh I'm not even sure about Rishi Sunak.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.

  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.

    The funniest part is she only went for a "wisdom teeth" excuse to avoid either resigning or pledging fealty to the Prime Minister after Rishi and The Saj kicked over Boris's applecart.

    It's all a bit pointless, surely, since by the time she lands everyone will have gone home for the weekend, and then Monday will see a new 1922 board elected and only then will we discover the schedule for the leadership election.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.

    The funniest part is she only went for a "wisdom teeth" excuse to avoid either resigning or pledging fealty to the Prime Minister after Rishi and The Saj kicked over Boris's applecart.

    It's all a bit pointless, surely, since by the time she lands everyone will have gone home for the weekend, and then Monday will see a new 1922 board elected and only then will we discover the schedule for the leadership election.
    wonder how much that jaunt cost the country in pounds and CO2 emissions, all for Truss's ego...
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341
    edited July 2022

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.

    The funniest part is she only went for a "wisdom teeth" excuse to avoid either resigning or pledging fealty to the Prime Minister after Rishi and The Saj kicked over Boris's applecart.

    It's all a bit pointless, surely, since by the time she lands everyone will have gone home for the weekend, and then Monday will see a new 1922 board elected and only then will we discover the schedule for the leadership election.
    wonder how much that jaunt cost the country in pounds and CO2 emissions, all for Truss's ego...
    Nothing because if Truss had not gone, they'd have sent someone else in her place, and the plane had to come back anyway. Or lots, depending if you are pro- or anti-Truss.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    kle4 said:

    The Tories only defence of 10 bys tonight was a rough one!

    Charlwood (Mole Valley) Result:

    GRN: 41.7% (+13.6)
    LDM: 30.8% (+9.5)
    CON: 24.4% (-22.0)
    LAB: 3.1% (New)

    No UKIP (-14.1) as prev.

    Green GAIN from Conservative.
    Changes w/ 2019.

    I have always loved the name Mole Valley. Never been there. Are there more moles than average?
    A mole of moles perhaps

    https://what-if.xkcd.com/4/
    Lots of moles, but imagine an avagadro of avacados
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,021
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Tom McTague:

    Johnson leaves no such legacy—though some will say that he has done irreparable damage to the British body politic by breaking conventions that tie together Britain’s unwritten constitution. I’m not convinced by this argument. Johnson had an 80-seat majority in Parliament, with demographic trends that meant he should have held power for a decade, yet he has been forced from office. The system remains pretty formidable: The press revealed his bad behavior, the public decided he was not fit for office, and enough Conservative members of Parliament either agreed with the public or felt that it was in their interest to remove him. The spectacle that ensued this week was unseemly and chaotic. But it was no January 6.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/07/boris-johnson-resignation-brexit/661510/
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Tom McTague:

    Johnson leaves no such legacy—though some will say that he has done irreparable damage to the British body politic by breaking conventions that tie together Britain’s unwritten constitution. I’m not convinced by this argument. Johnson had an 80-seat majority in Parliament, with demographic trends that meant he should have held power for a decade, yet he has been forced from office. The system remains pretty formidable: The press revealed his bad behavior, the public decided he was not fit for office, and enough Conservative members of Parliament either agreed with the public or felt that it was in their interest to remove him. The spectacle that ensued this week was unseemly and chaotic. But it was no January 6.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/07/boris-johnson-resignation-brexit/661510/

    he aint quite gone yet.....
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,021
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories only defence of 10 bys tonight was a rough one!

    Charlwood (Mole Valley) Result:

    GRN: 41.7% (+13.6)
    LDM: 30.8% (+9.5)
    CON: 24.4% (-22.0)
    LAB: 3.1% (New)

    No UKIP (-14.1) as prev.

    Green GAIN from Conservative.
    Changes w/ 2019.

    I have always loved the name Mole Valley. Never been there. Are there more moles than average?
    A mole of moles perhaps

    https://what-if.xkcd.com/4/
    That one... really stuck in my head. It's wonderful and vile
    I have a photo somewhere of a jar of moles if you want?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.

    The funniest part is she only went for a "wisdom teeth" excuse to avoid either resigning or pledging fealty to the Prime Minister after Rishi and The Saj kicked over Boris's applecart.

    It's all a bit pointless, surely, since by the time she lands everyone will have gone home for the weekend, and then Monday will see a new 1922 board elected and only then will we discover the schedule for the leadership election.
    The meeting was long scheduled before the Johnson downfall started to play out. You don’t get 20 Foreign Ministers to fly all the way to Bali to help provide Truss with an excuse. It was foolish to cut n’run however - she could have stayed for the meetings then left - demonstrating statesmanship rather than narrow personal interest. Now she has the worst of both worlds - a bolter who got back too late to make a difference.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341
    edited July 2022

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.

    The funniest part is she only went for a "wisdom teeth" excuse to avoid either resigning or pledging fealty to the Prime Minister after Rishi and The Saj kicked over Boris's applecart.

    It's all a bit pointless, surely, since by the time she lands everyone will have gone home for the weekend, and then Monday will see a new 1922 board elected and only then will we discover the schedule for the leadership election.
    The meeting was long scheduled before the Johnson downfall started to play out. You don’t get 20 Foreign Ministers to fly all the way to Bali to help provide Truss with an excuse. It was foolish to cut n’run however - she could have stayed for the meetings then left - demonstrating statesmanship rather than narrow personal interest. Now she has the worst of both worlds - a bolter who got back too late to make a difference.
    Yes, of course the G20 was long-planned but Liz Truss could have opted to stay in London and send a deputy instead (see my answer to the cost question) rather than going only for long enough to escape the resign-or-stay dilemma and then leaving early. She used the G20 like John Major used his dentist, except he at least stayed till the end of the treatment.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341

    Carrie Antoinette….

    Items ordered by Mr Johnson and wife Carrie from upmarket interior designer Lulu Lytle include a £3,675 drinks trolley said to be like the one owned in Paris by ballet dancer Rudolph Nureyev

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-wallpaper-gold-flat-carrie-invoice-b2118185.html

    Missing the point perhaps but why has someone typed the address at the top left when it is already printed at the top centre?

    The Independent is still not 100 per cent convinced by Boris's story that he paid in the end:-

    In 2021 it emerged that the cost of the refurbishment was met by the Cabinet Office and recharged to the Conservative Party. After the scandal was revealed the money was returned to Tory HQ and Mr Johnson agreed to pick up the bill, though it is not clear where he obtained the necessary £178,000 once the Cabinet Office paid its £30,000 share.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-wallpaper-gold-flat-carrie-invoice-b2118185.html
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Liz Truss has cut short her attendance at a critical G20 foreign ministers’ meeting in Indonesia to fly back to London to canvass support for her bid to succeed Boris Johnson as the UK’s prime minister.

    Her decision raised eyebrows among some diplomats who see the G20 meeting as a key moment for the west to confront the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, for the first time over the invasion of Ukraine – an issue on which she has been a hawk.

    The foreign secretary’s move is also likely to unnerve central European allies who do not want to see the British government destabilised and distracted at such a critical and difficult moment in the Ukraine war.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/07/liz-truss-makes-early-g20-exit-to-drum-up-tory-leadership-support

    We need a PM who will put the country’s interest ahead of their own narrow personal interest, unlike their predecessor….
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,956
    It'll be a webscraper which someone calls a bot, because that sounds sexier, and then some marketroid adds 'AI' on to make it sexier still. And then Leon proclaims it as another example of Turing completeness. ;)
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    The story of the 200 grand spent on decorating a tiny flat reveals something that was commented on recently. BoZo needs to earn serious money to keep up with Carrie's tastes. We are talking private jet money, not BA First Class money.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    This finishes with the news helicopters chasing her plane down final approach at Stansted this evening.

    (Maybe I’ll go to DWC this afternoon, to wave at her).
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.
    Yep, if they’d have known they’d be going straight back, they’d have double-crewed the aricraft. Commercial pilots need proscribed amounts of rest, for the obvious reason.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    Andy_JS said:

    "Shinzo Abe, former Japan prime minister, shot during speech – report
    Former PM collapses after gunshots reportedly heard while he spoke in the city of Nara"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/shinzo-abe-former-japan-prime-minister-shot-during-speech-reports

    The reports don’t sound hopeful. Very sad news for Japan if the worst is confirmed.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    edited July 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.
    Yep, if they’d have known they’d be going straight back, they’d have double-crewed the aricraft. Commercial pilots need proscribed amounts of rest, for the obvious reason.
    I presume the original plan was to return this evening, Bali time, (about mid-day here) after the meetings concluded - getting back to the UK tomorrow morning. Instead she’s missed meetings and bolted to get back all of 12 hours earlier. I hope the next PM takes note of her priorities and suitability for the office.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,040

    Liz Truss has cut short her attendance at a critical G20 foreign ministers’ meeting in Indonesia to fly back to London to canvass support for her bid to succeed Boris Johnson as the UK’s prime minister.

    Her decision raised eyebrows among some diplomats who see the G20 meeting as a key moment for the west to confront the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, for the first time over the invasion of Ukraine – an issue on which she has been a hawk.

    The foreign secretary’s move is also likely to unnerve central European allies who do not want to see the British government destabilised and distracted at such a critical and difficult moment in the Ukraine war.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/07/liz-truss-makes-early-g20-exit-to-drum-up-tory-leadership-support

    We need a PM who will put the country’s interest ahead of their own narrow personal interest, unlike their predecessor….

    Also a bit thick, 'I must complete the task in hand before considering any other matters' would be a prime ministerial selling point surely? Either she's spent too much time with BJ or she's cut from the same cloth.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    The overseas press have been excoriating about Boris Johnson:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/07/07/goodbye-amoral-serial-adulterer-how-world-reacted-boris-johnsons/

    This suggests to me that (pace Leon) he will struggle to fill venues for public appearances. His three years in office were marked by serial failings and no-one likes to listen to a failure. Nor do they want to read a liar's take on what happened during the chaos.

    A disaster for Britain on every level. The only thing he did of any good was to support Ukraine. And that's it.

    Gradually and inevitably we will roll back Brexit. Not the full monty, at least not yet, but closer ties with our European partners on an economic, diplomatic and security footing. And that's good news for everyone except the boneheads.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Carrie Antoinette….

    Items ordered by Mr Johnson and wife Carrie from upmarket interior designer Lulu Lytle include a £3,675 drinks trolley said to be like the one owned in Paris by ballet dancer Rudolph Nureyev

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-wallpaper-gold-flat-carrie-invoice-b2118185.html

    Missing the point perhaps but why has someone typed the address at the top left when it is already printed at the top centre?

    The Independent is still not 100 per cent convinced by Boris's story that he paid in the end:-

    In 2021 it emerged that the cost of the refurbishment was met by the Cabinet Office and recharged to the Conservative Party. After the scandal was revealed the money was returned to Tory HQ and Mr Johnson agreed to pick up the bill, though it is not clear where he obtained the necessary £178,000 once the Cabinet Office paid its £30,000 share.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-wallpaper-gold-flat-carrie-invoice-b2118185.html
    One thing that’s absolutely certain, is that Boris Johnson won’t have been able to write a cheque for £178k himself. He’s always been terrible with money, had just got divorced and had taken a £100k-per-year earnings cut to work in government.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612

    Liz Truss has cut short her attendance at a critical G20 foreign ministers’ meeting in Indonesia to fly back to London to canvass support for her bid to succeed Boris Johnson as the UK’s prime minister.

    Her decision raised eyebrows among some diplomats who see the G20 meeting as a key moment for the west to confront the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, for the first time over the invasion of Ukraine – an issue on which she has been a hawk.

    The foreign secretary’s move is also likely to unnerve central European allies who do not want to see the British government destabilised and distracted at such a critical and difficult moment in the Ukraine war.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/07/liz-truss-makes-early-g20-exit-to-drum-up-tory-leadership-support

    We need a PM who will put the country’s interest ahead of their own narrow personal interest, unlike their predecessor….

    Also a bit thick, 'I must complete the task in hand before considering any other matters' would be a prime ministerial selling point surely? Either she's spent too much time with BJ or she's cut from the same cloth.
    I suspect she ordered “we’re going back to London, cancel my meetings”. Then the Flight Crew told her “not yet, we’re not” given the substantial gap between reports of “Liz Truss rushing back to London” and her aircraft actually taking off about 15 hours later….
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Good morning, everyone.

    I hope Shinzo Abe is alright.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    MrEd said:

    KevinB said:

    dixiedean said:

    There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party.
    Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone.
    That's all I'm saying.

    Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
    BJ was seen as an anti-politician to many. He broke the rules that said you had to do x in politics.

    When many talk about the need to follow the correct standards and procedures, they conveniently omit that the rules are made by the likes of Hunt and co for the benefit of....the likes of Hunt and co. Many voters realise this and liked someone who felt they didn't have to play by those rules.
    D'accord. Don't know what it was like back in dear Old Blighty (or Scotty or Taffy or Micky) back in the day, but when I was taking Civics during my schooldays, the teachers, kids and just about everybody I knew had a basic faith in the American democratic system.

    Those days are gone in America, many still have retained faith and even more hope, if not always much charity (left, right and center) but many have not. Increasing alienation has led to rise of populism of various stripes, but generally tending to the right, along with politicos capable of tapping this, again with varying degrees of talent and success.

    Personally think that key reason 21st-century political populism is skewing rightward, is because across much of Europe and North America, and parts of other continents as well (excepting Antarctica) folks are LESS worried about getting their fair share of whatever, and MORE concerned about keeping with little (or great) they've already got.

    Back in 1930s in Louisiana, Huey Long galvanized the majority of voters (mostly White but some Blacks could vote in Pelican State esp. in New Orleans) behind his populist, anti-establishment message. A message that was LEFTWING in orientation, not socially but economically. And even as he became increasingly dictatorial withing Louisiana, genuine support for his policies AND methods held firm. When he was at last cut down by the bullet of his assassin (or more likely the fusillade of his bodyguards) Huey was challenging FDR from the left, in lead-up to 1936 election.

    Way back when, most Louisiana's (of whatever skin tone) were lucky to have a pot to piss in. Hence the leftward tilt of Huey, FDR and American populism in the 1930s. Though there was also a significant amount of rightwing populism as well, most notably Father Coughlin.
    Can you suggest a good biography of Long?
    The classic is "Huey Long: A Biography" by T. Harry Williams (1969) extensively researched, including large number of oral interviews with Huey's associates AND opponents while they were still alive and kicking. Rather long-in-tooth, and while not uncritical, it is generally sympathetic to the Kingfish's motives if not always his methods.

    Dr. Williams was a long-time fixture and adornment of the History Department of Louisiana State University, most famous for his Civil War study, "Lincoln and His Generals". When I was a (sometime) student at LSU, I (unofficially) audited T. Harry's course (that's what everyone called him at LSU in Deep South fashion) on the Civil war. Magisterial and majestic.

    He was an old man by then, but he held a huge auditorium classroom in the palm of his hand, for hour-and-half two days a week. Only spent the last two of the semester on the actual battles! But that was well worth waiting for.

    Back in those sinful days, T. Harry concluded his final lecture, with the story of CSS Shenandoah. Confederate raider that left the yard at Liverpool (IIRC) and somehow ended up hunting the New England whaling fleet in the Bering Sea. Captain & crew were cutting a swath of destruction through US shipping when they encountered a British ship with newspaper from San Francisco, reporting Lee's surrender at Appomattox Court House. But instead of turning themselves into the Federals, or sailing for Hong Kong, they decided to sail for . . . England. Where they at last arrived, in September 1865, ran down the Confederate Flag, and turned the ship over to British authorities.

    When T. Harry reached the climax of the story of CSS Shenandoah, the frat boys (a sizable contingent) jumped up and gave their best Rebel Yell. And must admit that I, great-great grandson of Union soldiers who fought at Gettysburg turning back the high tide of the Confederacy, well, I got up and hollered too.
    Thankyou! I'll appropriate a copy and take a bite out of the monthly book budget.
    Also -- as recommended before by myself and @NickPalmer -- the 1949 film 'All the King's Men' is superb.

    It shows the rise & fall of a Southern politician based on Huey Long.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    Oh dear, what a shame. Looks like they don’t have the logistics capability, to get the ammo dumps out of range of enemy fire. A range that’s been somewhat upgraded in the past couple of weeks.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258

    Liz Truss has cut short her attendance at a critical G20 foreign ministers’ meeting in Indonesia to fly back to London to canvass support for her bid to succeed Boris Johnson as the UK’s prime minister.

    Her decision raised eyebrows among some diplomats who see the G20 meeting as a key moment for the west to confront the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, for the first time over the invasion of Ukraine – an issue on which she has been a hawk.

    The foreign secretary’s move is also likely to unnerve central European allies who do not want to see the British government destabilised and distracted at such a critical and difficult moment in the Ukraine war.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/07/liz-truss-makes-early-g20-exit-to-drum-up-tory-leadership-support

    We need a PM who will put the country’s interest ahead of their own narrow personal interest, unlike their predecessor….

    Also a bit thick, 'I must complete the task in hand before considering any other matters' would be a prime ministerial selling point surely? Either she's spent too much time with BJ or she's cut from the same cloth.
    I suspect she ordered “we’re going back to London, cancel my meetings”. Then the Flight Crew told her “not yet, we’re not” given the substantial gap between reports of “Liz Truss rushing back to London” and her aircraft actually taking off about 15 hours later….
    It really is a typically tawdry response by her, isn't it? If she had any ounce of gravitas she would have been statesmanlike on the world stage, really showing her leadership credentials. It's not as if we're living in the 1950's either. In an internet age, even on flights, she could have done her initial drumming up of support.

    I didn't rate her at all but she has sunk even lower in my estimation.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    By the way, if the Mail and Express continue this 'betrayal' meme then the rancour over Boris' departure is going to continue to harm the Conservatives' chances.

    He was a wicked clown and deserved to go. They, or rather their proprietors, need to get over it and move on.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Yes, I felt a bit Windsor Davies when I saw that.

    There are Russian Telegram feeds suggesting these attacks are forcing the Russians to conserve supplies. Add a few more systems in plus other long range artillery and Russia is going to have a big issue in the next few months.
    Sandpit said:

    Oh dear, what a shame. Looks like they don’t have the logistics capability, to get the ammo dumps out of range of enemy fire. A range that’s been somewhat upgraded in the past couple of weeks.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    Sandpit said:

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.
    Yep, if they’d have known they’d be going straight back, they’d have double-crewed the aricraft. Commercial pilots need proscribed amounts of rest, for the obvious reason.
    I presume the original plan was to return this evening, Bali time, (about mid-day here) after the meetings concluded - getting back to the UK tomorrow morning. Instead she’s missed meetings and bolted to get back all of 12 hours earlier. I hope the next PM takes note of her priorities and suitability for the office.
    She is definitely running then (no surprise).

    Poor decision to abandon the G20, but typical of her poor judgement.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    @SeaShantyIrish2 cheers for the post on Huey Long last night and sorry I didn't reply. A fascinating character. A total crook of course but arguably he did a fair bit for the poor in Louisiana in the Great Depression.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,144
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looks like Liz is about 3 hours into her flight home - arriving in a bit over 15 hours at 20.15 at Stansted:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-gbni

    There she is! Off the coast of Sumatra:

    https://fr24.com/AWC646/2c8dedfb

    so much for global Britain... the G20 barely begun at a time of war/economic crisis and global poverty on the rise and Truss rushes back to secure herself a job in the Cabinet
    The funniest part was she’d only been there 6 hours when Boris admitted the game was up but had to wait until 2am U.K. time this morning to leave so the flight crew could rest after the outbound flight. “Them’s the breaks” as someone remarked.
    Yep, if they’d have known they’d be going straight back, they’d have double-crewed the aricraft. Commercial pilots need proscribed amounts of rest, for the obvious reason.
    I presume the original plan was to return this evening, Bali time, (about mid-day here) after the meetings concluded - getting back to the UK tomorrow morning. Instead she’s missed meetings and bolted to get back all of 12 hours earlier. I hope the next PM takes note of her priorities and suitability for the office.
    She is definitely running then (no surprise).

    Poor decision to abandon the G20, but typical of her poor judgement.
    She’d be a terrible PM.
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Heathener said:

    By the way, if the Mail and Express continue this 'betrayal' meme then the rancour over Boris' departure is going to continue to harm the Conservatives' chances.

    He was a wicked clown and deserved to go. They, or rather their proprietors, need to get over it and move on.

    perhaps there's the chance of a peerage for a friendly editor from the outgoing PM, its not been unknown
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    It’s time for a clean start.

    It’s time for renewal.


    https://twitter.com/tomtugendhat/status/1545286580302237696
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612

    Heathener said:

    By the way, if the Mail and Express continue this 'betrayal' meme then the rancour over Boris' departure is going to continue to harm the Conservatives' chances.

    He was a wicked clown and deserved to go. They, or rather their proprietors, need to get over it and move on.

    perhaps there's the chance of a peerage for a friendly editor from the outgoing PM, its not been unknown
    If Daniel Moylan can get one it’s a low bar…..
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    This Thread has resigned said it’s going….
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    edited July 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    The story of the 200 grand spent on decorating a tiny flat reveals something that was commented on recently. BoZo needs to earn serious money to keep up with Carrie's tastes. We are talking private jet money, not BA First Class money.

    Yep and he won't get it through sales of his personal memoir. He may get a mildly decent advance but the actual books won't sell. No one wants to read a liar's spin and self-justification these days. Biographies about this turbulent time might do better but non-fiction generally struggles these days. The internet is such a great, and terrible, resource for finding out information, as are endless tv shows, that there are very few surprises left for a non-fiction author.

    As I mentioned, I doubt he will fill halls for talks either. No one wants to listen to a failure and he's a poor speaker. As chaotic as in everything else.

    @Leon got very personal with us all over this but, of course, the reason he's so irate is his own fear. Boris Johnson was a serial philanderer, a man approaching sixty whose attitude to sexual predation belonged to an era from which most of society has moved on. Boris Johnson got the top job for one reason and one reason only: to deliver Brexit. And that was on the back of the Remainer Parliament and an unelectable anti-Semitic Trotskyite Labour leader. As a person he was manifestly unsuited to the top job and the page on the chapter has already been turned. The flowers fade and the grass withers. It happens to all of us and some deserve it more than others.

    The country is leaving Boris and his type of politics behind. Whether that's under a complete reboot of the Conservative brand, or a completely new broom under Labour-LibDems, we will wait to see. But move on it is.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Ladbrokes still has no sprint markets up...

    Anyway, Hamilton at 11 and Russell each way at 17 may be value for the race. Perez at 11 perhaps even more so. Nobody else, save Verstappen, has as many top 2 finishes this year, and he's well ahead of both Ferrari drivers.

    The British Grand Prix was slightly odd when it comes to trying to assess race pace given how things ended, but I think Mercedes has narrowed the gap far more than I anticipated beforehand. But, Red Bull still seems top dog to me (albeit with more reliability problems than the Silver Arrows).

    There are 12 races left including Austria, so could Hamilton or Russell take the title? They're a long way off Verstappen (88 and 70 points respectively). it's highly improbable but not quite impossible given reliability and Ferrari deciding to shoot itself in the foot constantly.

    However, Hamilton at 21 is too short (29 Betfair). Russell at 51, is better value, especially as the market doesn't appear to have noticed he's done a better job than Hamilton this year (so far).

    I won't be dabbling in this as I already did around the false dawn of Miami and are flat if they fail and ahead if they succeed, but a free bet on Russell for the title may be worth considering.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    edited July 2022
    I watched "It aint 'alf hot" regularly.

    It was set in it's time. Far better than anodyne westerns where the cowboys were clean-shaven, always had a clean shirt, 1950s hair styles, and in the gunfights they seemed to die of sudden and bloodless cardiac arrests when shot a close range by 45 calibre bullets.

    Modern hygiene and styles.

    God forbid that historical accuracy should come into it. Where were the fully woke westerns? Geronmo fighting against transphobic braves, and backing the rights of squaws to own the tepee?

    Edit I forgot Blazing Saddles, fifty years ahead of its time. Although that was meant to be a comedy.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592
    Sandpit said:

    Oh dear, what a shame. Looks like they don’t have the logistics capability, to get the ammo dumps out of range of enemy fire. A range that’s been somewhat upgraded in the past couple of weeks.
    Russian logistics are very much based on the railways, and their extensive use of unguided shells and rockets involves a lot of tonnage that needs to be loaded and unloaded by hand as they don't have a pallet and forklift system for loading. There is an interesting thread on it here:

    https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1544495879884886017?t=5JDMvt9C0BAkbO9NuNRwYQ&s=19

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,956
    CD13 said:

    I watched "It aint 'alf hot" regularly.

    It was set in it's time. Far better than anodyne westerns where the cowboys were clean-shaven, always had a clean shirt, 1950s hair styles, and in the gunfights they seemed to die of sudden and bloodless cardiac arrests when shot a close range by 45 calibre bullets.

    Modern hygiene and styles.

    God forbid that histroical accuracy should come into it. Where were the fully woke westerns? Geronmo fighting against transphobic braves, and backing the rights of squaws to own the tepee?

    I used to occasionally drive from Leek to Ashbourne with my dad across the southwestern fringes of the Peak District, and he told me that in the late 1940s or early 1950s scenes for a western film were filmed on the crags near the road. He saw cowboys and indians resting between takes.

    And as an aside; there was nearly an on-road racetrack in the Peak District, which would have been truly spectacular (and lethal):
    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/total-911/20191127/281595242370934
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,956
    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The story of the 200 grand spent on decorating a tiny flat reveals something that was commented on recently. BoZo needs to earn serious money to keep up with Carrie's tastes. We are talking private jet money, not BA First Class money.

    Yep and he won't get it through sales of his personal memoir. He may get a mildly decent advance but the actual books won't sell. No one wants to read a liar's spin and self-justification these days. Biographies about this turbulent time might do better but non-fiction generally struggles these days. The internet is such a great, and terrible, resource for finding out information, as are endless tv shows, that there are very few surprises left for a non-fiction author.

    As I mentioned, I doubt he will fill halls for talks either. No one wants to listen to a failure and he's a poor speaker. As chaotic as in everything else.

    @Leon got very personal with us all over this but, of course, the reason he's so irate is his own fear. Boris Johnson was a serial philanderer, a man approaching sixty whose attitude to sexual predation belonged to an era from which most of society has moved on. Boris Johnson got the top job for one reason and one reason only: to deliver Brexit. And that was on the back of the Remainer Parliament and an unelectable anti-Semitic Trotskyite Labour leader. As a person he was manifestly unsuited to the top job and the page on the chapter has already been turned. The flowers fade and the grass withers. It happens to all of us and some deserve it more than others.

    The country is leaving Boris and his type of politics behind. Whether that's under a complete reboot of the Conservative brand, or a completely new broom under Labour-LibDems, we will wait to see. But move on it is.
    Firstly, another early-morning post from you where you attack another poster, accusing them of 'getting personal'. Remove the plank from your eye.

    Secondly, are you really accusing Johnson of "sexual predation" ?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    .

    Ladbrokes still has no sprint markets up...

    Anyway, Hamilton at 11 and Russell each way at 17 may be value for the race. Perez at 11 perhaps even more so. Nobody else, save Verstappen, has as many top 2 finishes this year, and he's well ahead of both Ferrari drivers.

    The British Grand Prix was slightly odd when it comes to trying to assess race pace given how things ended, but I think Mercedes has narrowed the gap far more than I anticipated beforehand. But, Red Bull still seems top dog to me (albeit with more reliability problems than the Silver Arrows).

    There are 12 races left including Austria, so could Hamilton or Russell take the title? They're a long way off Verstappen (88 and 70 points respectively). it's highly improbable but not quite impossible given reliability and Ferrari deciding to shoot itself in the foot constantly.

    However, Hamilton at 21 is too short (29 Betfair). Russell at 51, is better value, especially as the market doesn't appear to have noticed he's done a better job than Hamilton this year (so far).

    I won't be dabbling in this as I already did around the false dawn of Miami and are flat if they fail and ahead if they succeed, but a free bet on Russell for the title may be worth considering.

    Waste of a free bet, I think.

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    dixiedean said:

    Watching some vox pops earlier, I was struck by the way Boris seemed to be held in genuine affection by voters in the Red Wall seats. A possible nightmare for the Tories: these people actually start resenting to Tories for doing the dirty on 'their' Boris and holding their preferences in contempt; they then vote to punish the Tories accordingly. The Tories might have just killed the golden goose.

    The MP for Hyndburn just said her inbox is full of anger about a "coup".
    He has a substantial constituency who absolutely love him.
    Not convinced anyone does better. The polling agrees with me for now.
    It was a gamble which might not pay off. But doing nothing was not a recipe for success.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Former Japanese PM Shinzo Abe in a grave condition after being shot at a campaign event

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62089486
This discussion has been closed.