Also those middle classes demonstrated a high degree of hypocrisy over party gate since most likely broke the rules themselves
No they didn't. I thought the rules were grotesque, but I followed them, because everybody else was. There simply wasn't any secret socialising going on in the suburbs.
I think the voters in the redwall know the Southern middle classes are lying about this. Many have told me just as much
Look, Buster, I would have had few qualms about breaking the rules if I could have found anyone to socialise with. But it just wasn't happening. And please don't call me a) a liar or b) a southerner.
I fear a troll has wandered out from under his Russian bridge kids.
Also those middle classes demonstrated a high degree of hypocrisy over party gate since most likely broke the rules themselves
No they didn't. I thought the rules were grotesque, but I followed them, because everybody else was. There simply wasn't any secret socialising going on in the suburbs.
I think the voters in the redwall know the Southern middle classes are lying about this. Many have told me just as much
Well I live in Southern middle class Surrey and I don't know anyone who broke the rules.
KevinB is a one-man Northern secessionist front. The forthcoming tank battle between him and HYUFD for control of Watford Gap Services is going to be LIT
"Sir, sir!" "Well, what is it, private?" "Sir, bad news, sir. I'm afraid the enemy have take Leamington Spa" "Nitwit! That's ROYAL Leamington Spa. Show some respect!" "Yes sir, sorry sir. God save the Queen sir." "Hmm what? Oh yes, God save the Queen. Now what are we going to do about Leamington Spa?" "Royal Leamington Spa, sir" "Private! I'm trying to think here!" "Sorry sir, God save the Queen." "Alright, how about a flanking manoeuvre from the North?" "Sir, that would mean going into Coventry" "And? What's wrong with that?" "Sir you told us to nuke it last week, sir. And, well... we did." "Did I? Did you? Gracious. How did that go?" "Very well sir, we evacuated the Conservative voters beforehand" "Good work, private! Now, what can you tell me about Leamington Spa?" "Ro--" "Private!" "Sorry sir. It's another Labour seat, sir." "Very well. Arm the warheads."
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
BJ was seen as an anti-politician to many. He broke the rules that said you had to do x in politics.
When many talk about the need to follow the correct standards and procedures, they conveniently omit that the rules are made by the likes of Hunt and co for the benefit of....the likes of Hunt and co. Many voters realise this and liked someone who felt they didn't have to play by those rules.
D'accord. Don't know what it was like back in dear Old Blighty (or Scotty or Taffy or Micky) back in the day, but when I was taking Civics during my schooldays, the teachers, kids and just about everybody I knew had a basic faith in the American democratic system.
Those days are gone in America, many still have retained faith and even more hope, if not always much charity (left, right and center) but many have not. Increasing alienation has led to rise of populism of various stripes, but generally tending to the right, along with politicos capable of tapping this, again with varying degrees of talent and success.
Personally think that key reason 21st-century political populism is skewing rightward, is because across much of Europe and North America, and parts of other continents as well (excepting Antarctica) folks are LESS worried about getting their fair share of whatever, and MORE concerned about keeping with little (or great) they've already got.
Back in 1930s in Louisiana, Huey Long galvanized the majority of voters (mostly White but some Blacks could vote in Pelican State esp. in New Orleans) behind his populist, anti-establishment message. A message that was LEFTWING in orientation, not socially but economically. And even as he became increasingly dictatorial withing Louisiana, genuine support for his policies AND methods held firm. When he was at last cut down by the bullet of his assassin (or more likely the fusillade of his bodyguards) Huey was challenging FDR from the left, in lead-up to 1936 election.
Way back when, most Louisiana's (of whatever skin tone) were lucky to have a pot to piss in. Hence the leftward tilt of Huey, FDR and American populism in the 1930s. Though there was also a significant amount of rightwing populism as well, most notably Father Coughlin.
Odds on a Wallace and Tugendhat final 2? Looking stronger tonight. Some of Hunt's 2019 support already going to Tugendhat and I expect most of Boris' supporters will go to Wallace in the end.
Both decent, scandal free, ex military men
No suggestion of either of them taking it up the arse, what? Unheard of in the Armed Forces, or among married men.
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
Welcome. More like this please. My FB feed is full of tributes to Boris including a (for me) vomit inducing set of pictures of him at No.10 today with his children, some of them anyway, etc.
The comments are full of regret, anger, and blame for anti-Brexiters.
What you say is absolutely correct in that there are such feelings just I'm not sure to what extent throughout the country.
Yes I agree that in the south many turned against Boris but I would say many tory voters in the red wall still love him
My theory is that voters in the South think North is getting all the love and money. You can have a run down school in Tiverton, and they think the red wall is getting the money to fix it instead of them on a ratio like 99 red wall schools to 1 in Devon.
I havn’t seen psephology build this into how well the Lib Dems are doing in blue wall yet, but I anticipate it. You sense this from the TV vox pops in the by election coverage. Sure, the Lib Dem success is made up of many factors, Remainia anger, Boris taking the **** etc, but just how potent is the anger at the red wall stealing the money that could have fixed the school years ago if dished out fairly, in flipping votes?
Maybe with all the money floating around in the southern shires they could have dipped into their own pockets to help lol
Spoken like a true Northerner. 🫡
Truth is, I suspect levelling up isn’t helping to unite the country as promised. 😒
Also those middle classes demonstrated a high degree of hypocrisy over party gate since most likely broke the rules themselves
No they didn't. I thought the rules were grotesque, but I followed them, because everybody else was. There simply wasn't any secret socialising going on in the suburbs.
I think the voters in the redwall know the Southern middle classes are lying about this. Many have told me just as much
Look, Buster, I would have had few qualms about breaking the rules if I could have found anyone to socialise with. But it just wasn't happening. And please don't call me a) a liar or b) a southerner.
I spent countless winter afternoons during the nightmare sat in my garden with one mate or other sipping tea with our hats and scarves because we could not meet indoors.
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
The Holy ghost IS God.
Theology resits for you!
Theologically the Holy Ghost is God yes.
Historically it is probably a narcotic substance. “ When we have the Holy Ghost, we feel love, joy, and peace.”
The Trinity evolved from the drug taking Christians of North Africa, crossed the sea into Italy and Spain before the Council of Nicaea.
Well quite
I do bloody loathe lightweight "Christians" like HYUFD. For starters I have read the New Testament and I can guarantee he bloody hasn't, at best he has flipped through a translation into Latin or worse still a modern vernacular. And it is entirely clear to me that what Our Lord was about, was psilocybin mushrooms, and sitting on John's cock.
Replace the mocking of Christ and the Bible in that paragraph with a mocking of Muhammad and the Koran and you would be facing a Fatwa on you!
So what?
And I very genuinely think that both points are actually true. I really do.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It's her main redeeming feature.
She is not a culture warrior for the forces of reaction.
Given you're possibly the Wokest person on here this is the kiss of death for her.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
I am considerably wokier than Foxy.
I'm possibly more woke than yow.
I used to get up in the morning and campaign against the feds for four hours before my vegan breakfast, then work all day down t'social services giving grants to drag queens before going home to a slavery reparations rally.
That's nothing.
I work 22 hours a day on the Defund JK Rowling campaign and the other two hours at the food bank helping the poor and wretched victims of racist Britain.
Also those middle classes demonstrated a high degree of hypocrisy over party gate since most likely broke the rules themselves
No they didn't. I thought the rules were grotesque, but I followed them, because everybody else was. There simply wasn't any secret socialising going on in the suburbs.
I think the voters in the redwall know the Southern middle classes are lying about this. Many have told me just as much
Look, Buster, I would have had few qualms about breaking the rules if I could have found anyone to socialise with. But it just wasn't happening. And please don't call me a) a liar or b) a southerner.
I fear a troll has wandered out from under his Russian bridge kids.
He’s right. Boris was an obstacle to a sustainable Brexit.
It’s been a theme on PB for ages - the edges of this Brexit causing friction more likely smoothed better by a remainer government than the hard Brexit government who negotiated it.
Also those middle classes demonstrated a high degree of hypocrisy over party gate since most likely broke the rules themselves
No they didn't. I thought the rules were grotesque, but I followed them, because everybody else was. There simply wasn't any secret socialising going on in the suburbs.
I think the voters in the redwall know the Southern middle classes are lying about this. Many have told me just as much
Look, Buster, I would have had few qualms about breaking the rules if I could have found anyone to socialise with. But it just wasn't happening. And please don't call me a) a liar or b) a southerner.
I spent countless winter afternoons during the nightmare sat in my garden with one mate or other sipping tea with our hats and scarves because we could not meet indoors.
Well that was admirable but in hindsight rather silly behaviour
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
Welcome. More like this please. My FB feed is full of tributes to Boris including a (for me) vomit inducing set of pictures of him at No.10 today with his children, some of them anyway, etc.
The comments are full of regret, anger, and blame for anti-Brexiters.
What you say is absolutely correct in that there are such feelings just I'm not sure to what extent throughout the country.
Yes I agree that in the south many turned against Boris but I would say many tory voters in the red wall still love him
My theory is that voters in the South think North is getting all the love and money. You can have a run down school in Tiverton, and they think the red wall is getting the money to fix it instead of them on a ratio like 99 red wall schools to 1 in Devon.
I havn’t seen psephology build this into how well the Lib Dems are doing in blue wall yet, but I anticipate it. You sense this from the TV vox pops in the by election coverage. Sure, the Lib Dem success is made up of many factors, Remainia anger, Boris taking the **** etc, but just how potent is the anger at the red wall stealing the money that could have fixed the school years ago if dished out fairly, in flipping votes?
Maybe with all the money floating around in the southern shires they could have dipped into their own pockets to help lol
Spoken like a true Northerner. 🫡
Truth is, I suspect levelling up isn’t helping to unite the country as promised. 😒
@MoonRabbit aren't you watching Dehenna on QT tonight??
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It's her main redeeming feature.
She is not a culture warrior for the forces of reaction.
Given you're possibly the Wokest person on here this is the kiss of death for her.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
Suits me to have her written off. She is the only contender who could get a following with the under 65's, and have a reasonable chance of defending the Blue Wall.
Disagree. I think her stance on 'woke' issues could damn her.
A piece of anecdote. I was at a reunion at my old college, chatting away to a group of other alum, all in Tory seats, all middle class and clearly quite socially liberal when it came to most things. The one thing that got that wound up immensely was how the woke - and specifically the trans - issue was being pushed at school. It's way I don't think the Lib Dems will do well in the GE because once Davey is asked "what's a woman?", he's not going to be able to get past the issue.
You misunderstand. I agree that her being woke will finish her off in the members vote, but that culture warrior reaction is what will cause the Tories to lose the next election. This is not America.
If in the face of raging inflation, a CoL crisis and an energy crisis all the Tories can do is focus on is "woke" then they will rightly get a kicking. People might have views on trans issues but I suspect they are going to be pretty far down the priorities list when it comes to deciding who to vote for.
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
BJ was seen as an anti-politician to many. He broke the rules that said you had to do x in politics.
When many talk about the need to follow the correct standards and procedures, they conveniently omit that the rules are made by the likes of Hunt and co for the benefit of....the likes of Hunt and co. Many voters realise this and liked someone who felt they didn't have to play by those rules.
D'accord. Don't know what it was like back in dear Old Blighty (or Scotty or Taffy or Micky) back in the day, but when I was taking Civics during my schooldays, the teachers, kids and just about everybody I knew had a basic faith in the American democratic system.
Those days are gone in America, many still have retained faith and even more hope, if not always much charity (left, right and center) but many have not. Increasing alienation has led to rise of populism of various stripes, but generally tending to the right, along with politicos capable of tapping this, again with varying degrees of talent and success.
Personally think that key reason 21st-century political populism is skewing rightward, is because across much of Europe and North America, and parts of other continents as well (excepting Antarctica) folks are LESS worried about getting their fair share of whatever, and MORE concerned about keeping with little (or great) they've already got.
Back in 1930s in Louisiana, Huey Long galvanized the majority of voters (mostly White but some Blacks could vote in Pelican State esp. in New Orleans) behind his populist, anti-establishment message. A message that was LEFTWING in orientation, not socially but economically. And even as he became increasingly dictatorial withing Louisiana, genuine support for his policies AND methods held firm. When he was at last cut down by the bullet of his assassin (or more likely the fusillade of his bodyguards) Huey was challenging FDR from the left, in lead-up to 1936 election.
Way back when, most Louisiana's (of whatever skin tone) were lucky to have a pot to piss in. Hence the leftward tilt of Huey, FDR and American populism in the 1930s. Though there was also a significant amount of rightwing populism as well, most notably Father Coughlin.
Odds on a Wallace and Tugendhat final 2? Looking stronger tonight. Some of Hunt's 2019 support already going to Tugendhat and I expect most of Boris' supporters will go to Wallace in the end.
Both decent, scandal free, ex military men
No suggestion of either of them taking it up the arse, what? Unheard of in the Armed Forces, or among married men.
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
Welcome. More like this please. My FB feed is full of tributes to Boris including a (for me) vomit inducing set of pictures of him at No.10 today with his children, some of them anyway, etc.
The comments are full of regret, anger, and blame for anti-Brexiters.
What you say is absolutely correct in that there are such feelings just I'm not sure to what extent throughout the country.
Yes I agree that in the south many turned against Boris but I would say many tory voters in the red wall still love him
My theory is that voters in the South think North is getting all the love and money. You can have a run down school in Tiverton, and they think the red wall is getting the money to fix it instead of them on a ratio like 99 red wall schools to 1 in Devon.
I havn’t seen psephology build this into how well the Lib Dems are doing in blue wall yet, but I anticipate it. You sense this from the TV vox pops in the by election coverage. Sure, the Lib Dem success is made up of many factors, Remainia anger, Boris taking the **** etc, but just how potent is the anger at the red wall stealing the money that could have fixed the school years ago if dished out fairly, in flipping votes?
Maybe with all the money floating around in the southern shires they could have dipped into their own pockets to help lol
Spoken like a true Northerner. 🫡
Truth is, I suspect levelling up isn’t helping to unite the country as promised. 😒
@MoonRabbit aren't you watching Dehenna on QT tonight??
He’s right. Boris was an obstacle to a sustainable Brexit.
It’s been a theme on PB for ages - the edges of this Brexit causing friction more likely smoothed better by a remainer government than the hard Brexit government who negotiated it.
Moving to a phase when the main protagonists are no longer in active politics can't do any harm. The hatred for Boris among some people is off the charts.
Despite some stiff competition, this French journalist thinks Johnson is "the vilest, most amoral, most dishonest leader of post-war Europe".
I have always loved the name Mole Valley. Never been there. Are there more moles than average?
Named after the River Mole. Mole Valley Valves was also the fictional company that employed Richard Briers's character in the BBC sitcom 'Ever Decreasing Circles'.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It's her main redeeming feature.
She is not a culture warrior for the forces of reaction.
Given you're possibly the Wokest person on here this is the kiss of death for her.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
I am considerably wokier than Foxy.
Can we have a woke-off? Who has done the wokiest thing? I am sure I can win this BTW.
"I love being ‘woke’. It’s much nicer than being an ignorant f**king twat." - Kathy Burke
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It's her main redeeming feature.
She is not a culture warrior for the forces of reaction.
Given you're possibly the Wokest person on here this is the kiss of death for her.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
Suits me to have her written off. She is the only contender who could get a following with the under 65's, and have a reasonable chance of defending the Blue Wall.
Disagree. I think her stance on 'woke' issues could damn her.
A piece of anecdote. I was at a reunion at my old college, chatting away to a group of other alum, all in Tory seats, all middle class and clearly quite socially liberal when it came to most things. The one thing that got that wound up immensely was how the woke - and specifically the trans - issue was being pushed at school. It's way I don't think the Lib Dems will do well in the GE because once Davey is asked "what's a woman?", he's not going to be able to get past the issue.
You misunderstand. I agree that her being woke will finish her off in the members vote, but that culture warrior reaction is what will cause the Tories to lose the next election. This is not America.
If in the face of raging inflation, a CoL crisis and an energy crisis all the Tories can do is focus on is "woke" then they will rightly get a kicking. People might have views on trans issues but I suspect they are going to be pretty far down the priorities list when it comes to deciding who to vote for.
Well it depends what you mean. Concerns in the red wall about mass immigration and demographic change have not gone away. A tough line on immigration could win votes
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
The obvious response by Labour would be to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner or Lisa Nandy.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
For that reason she'd also be the most interesting in terms of relations with Europe. In one sense she'd be continuity Johnson, but it would be very hard to paint her as a reactionary populist.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
Penny morduant vs Jacob rees mogg in members ballot...its rees mogg by a landslide
Extraordinary. Minister on Newsnight saying he wouldn't comment when pressed on if Johnson might try to cut and run for an election whilst in his caretaker role.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
The obvious response by Labour would be to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner or Lisa Nandy.
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
BJ was seen as an anti-politician to many. He broke the rules that said you had to do x in politics.
When many talk about the need to follow the correct standards and procedures, they conveniently omit that the rules are made by the likes of Hunt and co for the benefit of....the likes of Hunt and co. Many voters realise this and liked someone who felt they didn't have to play by those rules.
D'accord. Don't know what it was like back in dear Old Blighty (or Scotty or Taffy or Micky) back in the day, but when I was taking Civics during my schooldays, the teachers, kids and just about everybody I knew had a basic faith in the American democratic system.
Those days are gone in America, many still have retained faith and even more hope, if not always much charity (left, right and center) but many have not. Increasing alienation has led to rise of populism of various stripes, but generally tending to the right, along with politicos capable of tapping this, again with varying degrees of talent and success.
Personally think that key reason 21st-century political populism is skewing rightward, is because across much of Europe and North America, and parts of other continents as well (excepting Antarctica) folks are LESS worried about getting their fair share of whatever, and MORE concerned about keeping with little (or great) they've already got.
Back in 1930s in Louisiana, Huey Long galvanized the majority of voters (mostly White but some Blacks could vote in Pelican State esp. in New Orleans) behind his populist, anti-establishment message. A message that was LEFTWING in orientation, not socially but economically. And even as he became increasingly dictatorial withing Louisiana, genuine support for his policies AND methods held firm. When he was at last cut down by the bullet of his assassin (or more likely the fusillade of his bodyguards) Huey was challenging FDR from the left, in lead-up to 1936 election.
Way back when, most Louisiana's (of whatever skin tone) were lucky to have a pot to piss in. Hence the leftward tilt of Huey, FDR and American populism in the 1930s. Though there was also a significant amount of rightwing populism as well, most notably Father Coughlin.
Can you suggest a good biography of Long?
The classic is "Huey Long: A Biography" by T. Harry Williams (1969) extensively researched, including large number of oral interviews with Huey's associates AND opponents while they were still alive and kicking. Rather long-in-tooth, and while not uncritical, it is generally sympathetic to the Kingfish's motives if not always his methods.
Dr. Williams was a long-time fixture and adornment of the History Department of Louisiana State University, most famous for his Civil War study, "Lincoln and His Generals". When I was a (sometime) student at LSU, I (unofficially) audited T. Harry's course (that's what everyone called him at LSU in Deep South fashion) on the Civil war. Magisterial and majestic.
He was an old man by then, but he held a huge auditorium classroom in the palm of his hand, for hour-and-half two days a week. Only spent the last two of the semester on the actual battles! But that was well worth waiting for.
Back in those sinful days, T. Harry concluded his final lecture, with the story of CSS Shenandoah. Confederate raider that left the yard at Liverpool (IIRC) and somehow ended up hunting the New England whaling fleet in the Bering Sea. Captain & crew were cutting a swath of destruction through US shipping when they encountered a British ship with newspaper from San Francisco, reporting Lee's surrender at Appomattox Court House. But instead of turning themselves into the Federals, or sailing for Hong Kong, they decided to sail for . . . England. Where they at last arrived, in September 1865, ran down the Confederate Flag, and turned the ship over to British authorities.
When T. Harry reached the climax of the story of CSS Shenandoah, the frat boys (a sizable contingent) jumped up and gave their best Rebel Yell. And must admit that I, great-great grandson of Union soldiers who fought at Gettysburg turning back the high tide of the Confederacy, well, I got up and hollered too.
Does Penny Mordaunt have some strange fixation with violence? For example, on her website profile the word fight, or one of its a derivatives, appears fourteen times.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
The obvious response by Labour would be to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner or Lisa Nandy.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Extraordinary. Minister on Newsnight saying he wouldn't comment when pressed on if Johnson might try to cut and run for an election whilst in his caretaker role.
Well that’s just silly. Not going to happen.
Queen would refuse and even Johnson's dog knows that.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
The obvious response by Labour would be to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner or Lisa Nandy.
Labour just sooo need SKS to be FPNed.
Rayner would also likely be fined, Nandy is a complete lightweight.
Streeting or Burnham longer term would be the only realistic alternatives
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
Penny morduant vs Jacob rees mogg in members ballot...its rees mogg by a landslide
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
Penny morduant vs Jacob rees mogg in members ballot...its rees mogg by a landslide
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
For that reason she'd also be the most interesting in terms of relations with Europe. In one sense she'd be continuity Johnson, but it would be very hard to paint her as a reactionary populist.
It’s better from a liberal perspective to have a liberal leader of the Tories. The Conservatives often win general elections, so having a nice Tory leader is good even if one opposes the party.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
Agreed tories may as well go hard on traditional tory values now, the Cameron experiment of managed decline was a complete failure
Johnson won the mayors race against a toxic Livingstone.
At the time he came across as a socially liberal , eccentric larger than life character who was also very internationalist. A pretty decent fit for London .
He then won the GE against a toxic Corbyn with a Get Brexit Done Message and oven ready deal which turned out to be another lie , but duped sufficient people .
His electoral winning powers in terms of actual results are good but he really just scored into an open goal .
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
The Holy ghost IS God.
Theology resits for you!
Theologically the Holy Ghost is God yes.
Historically it is probably a narcotic substance. “ When we have the Holy Ghost, we feel love, joy, and peace.”
The Trinity evolved from the drug taking Christians of North Africa, crossed the sea into Italy and Spain before the Council of Nicaea.
Well quite
I do bloody loathe lightweight "Christians" like HYUFD. For starters I have read the New Testament and I can guarantee he bloody hasn't, at best he has flipped through a translation into Latin or worse still a modern vernacular. And it is entirely clear to me that what Our Lord was about, was psilocybin mushrooms, and sitting on John's cock.
Replace the mocking of Christ and the Bible in that paragraph with a mocking of Muhammad and the Koran and you would be facing a Fatwa on you!
So what?
And I very genuinely think that both points are actually true. I really do.
So what, you wouldn't dare make comments about Muhammad's private life the way you did Christ's and there is plenty to go on.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
Penny morduant vs Jacob rees mogg in members ballot...its rees mogg by a landslide
The odious Rees won’t make the run off in a million years, even if he is stupid enough to stand.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
To be fair one of the big problems is the blairite media
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
The obvious response by Labour would be to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner or Lisa Nandy.
Labour just sooo need SKS to be FPNed.
Rayner would also likely be fined, Nandy is a complete lightweight.
Streeting or Burnham longer term would be the only realistic alternatives
For all his worthy nasal endeavour that fails to grab anyones attention, agreed, Starmer is still the best option, and FPN may not work out great for opposition push for change of government at all.
Johnson won the mayors race against a toxic Livingstone.
At the time he came across as a socially liberal , eccentric larger than life character who was also very internationalist. A pretty decent fit for London .
He then won the GE against a toxic Corbyn with a Get Brexit Done Message and oven ready deal which turned out to be another lie , but duped sufficient people .
His electoral winning powers in terms of actual results are good but he really just scored into an open goal .
He defeated two people who probably thought Communism was fair enough and better than NY/Tel Aviv controlled capital.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
To be fair one of the big problems is the blairite media
Ahhhhh red wall talk. Again worth pointing out the red wall thing in 2019 was more due to voters abandoning Labour than Cons gaining votes - they gained more between 2015 and 2017 here. If the Labour deserters dont return then the Tories will retain some of their red wall gains even drifting down a bit. The labour fall in vote in the red wall 2019 was much bigger than the Tory gain in vote in 2019 in the red wall
Also, the entire point of the original Red Wall analysis was that these were seats that demographically should have become Tory but were still a Labour for cultural reasons and through historical inertia.
The idea that with Boris gone they will automatically flock to SKS seems utterly bizarre to me.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
The obvious response by Labour would be to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner or Lisa Nandy.
Labour just sooo need SKS to be FPNed.
You are somewhat biased, we all happen to know, due to your soft spot for a certain redhead.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
Penny morduant vs Jacob rees mogg in members ballot...its rees mogg by a landslide
The odious Rees won’t make the run off in a million years, even if he is stupid enough to stand.
Give it 5 to 10 years he might, especially once the party is in opposition and Tory members love Mogg as much as Labour members loved Corbyn
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
Does Penny Mordaunt have some strange fixation with violence? For example, on her website profile the word fight, or one of its a derivatives, appears fourteen times.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
Penny morduant vs Jacob rees mogg in members ballot...its rees mogg by a landslide
The odious Rees won’t make the run off in a million years, even if he is stupid enough to stand.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
If that's what you wanted, why on earth did you spend so long supporting Boris?
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
The Holy ghost IS God.
Theology resits for you!
Theologically the Holy Ghost is God yes.
Historically it is probably a narcotic substance. “ When we have the Holy Ghost, we feel love, joy, and peace.”
The Trinity evolved from the drug taking Christians of North Africa, crossed the sea into Italy and Spain before the Council of Nicaea.
Well quite
I do bloody loathe lightweight "Christians" like HYUFD. For starters I have read the New Testament and I can guarantee he bloody hasn't, at best he has flipped through a translation into Latin or worse still a modern vernacular. And it is entirely clear to me that what Our Lord was about, was psilocybin mushrooms, and sitting on John's cock.
Replace the mocking of Christ and the Bible in that paragraph with a mocking of Muhammad and the Koran and you would be facing a Fatwa on you!
So what?
And I very genuinely think that both points are actually true. I really do.
So what, you wouldn't dare make comments about Muhammad's private life the way you did Christ's and there is plenty to go on.
It was pathetic
This is not about anyone's "private life," it is about who Christ was, did and believed in. OK fine you could have had me burned alive 400 years ago for pointing out that the best evidence is that he was gay, but what does that prove?
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
If that's what you wanted, why on earth did you spend so long supporting Boris?
To beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit.
Now those have been achieved and we are 12 not 9 years in power I want a proper Tory PM as leader
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
The obvious response by Labour would be to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner or Lisa Nandy.
Labour just sooo need SKS to be FPNed.
You are somewhat biased, we all happen to know, due to your soft spot for a certain redhead.
I don't see how she escapes FPN apocalypse, except that she hasn't said she will resign if she gets one. And attractive is attractive, to more of the electorate than just me.
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
The Holy ghost IS God.
Theology resits for you!
Theologically the Holy Ghost is God yes.
Historically it is probably a narcotic substance. “ When we have the Holy Ghost, we feel love, joy, and peace.”
The Trinity evolved from the drug taking Christians of North Africa, crossed the sea into Italy and Spain before the Council of Nicaea.
Well quite
I do bloody loathe lightweight "Christians" like HYUFD. For starters I have read the New Testament and I can guarantee he bloody hasn't, at best he has flipped through a translation into Latin or worse still a modern vernacular. And it is entirely clear to me that what Our Lord was about, was psilocybin mushrooms, and sitting on John's cock.
Replace the mocking of Christ and the Bible in that paragraph with a mocking of Muhammad and the Koran and you would be facing a Fatwa on you!
So what?
And I very genuinely think that both points are actually true. I really do.
So what, you wouldn't dare make comments about Muhammad's private life the way you did Christ's and there is plenty to go on.
It was pathetic
This is not about anyone's "private life," it is about who Christ was, did and believed in. OK fine you could have had me burned alive 400 years ago for pointing out that the best evidence is that he was gay, but what does that prove?
You could be burned alive by a mob today in some parts of the Muslim world if you made similar comments about Muhammad's private life
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
If that's what you wanted, why on earth did you spend so long supporting Boris?
To beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit.
Now those have been achieved and we are 12 not 9 years in power I want a proper Tory PM as leader
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
If that's what you wanted, why on earth did you spend so long supporting Boris?
To beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit.
Now those have been achieved and we are 12 not 9 years in power I want a proper Tory PM as leader
This is exactly what many people predicted would happen. Months screaming that Boris must stay and on the day he goes "now we can have a proper Tory".
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
The Holy ghost IS God.
Theology resits for you!
Theologically the Holy Ghost is God yes.
Historically it is probably a narcotic substance. “ When we have the Holy Ghost, we feel love, joy, and peace.”
The Trinity evolved from the drug taking Christians of North Africa, crossed the sea into Italy and Spain before the Council of Nicaea.
Well quite
I do bloody loathe lightweight "Christians" like HYUFD. For starters I have read the New Testament and I can guarantee he bloody hasn't, at best he has flipped through a translation into Latin or worse still a modern vernacular. And it is entirely clear to me that what Our Lord was about, was psilocybin mushrooms, and sitting on John's cock.
Replace the mocking of Christ and the Bible in that paragraph with a mocking of Muhammad and the Koran and you would be facing a Fatwa on you!
So what?
And I very genuinely think that both points are actually true. I really do.
So what, you wouldn't dare make comments about Muhammad's private life the way you did Christ's and there is plenty to go on.
It was pathetic
This is not about anyone's "private life," it is about who Christ was, did and believed in. OK fine you could have had me burned alive 400 years ago for pointing out that the best evidence is that he was gay, but what does that prove?
You could be burned alive by a mob today in some parts of the Muslim world if you made similar comments about Muhammad's private life
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
After 12 years in power I am less interested in who Labour allegedly fear, ie a candidate who agrees with much of their agenda, than a traditional Tory candidate with genuine Conservative values
If that's what you wanted, why on earth did you spend so long supporting Boris?
To beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit.
Now those have been achieved and we are 12 not 9 years in power I want a proper Tory PM as leader
That justified support up until early 2020 - no later.
Penny is the girl Labour fear. Very socially liberal, pretty and fun. I would have thought her favourite but many Tories don’t seem to like her (probably for the above reasons).
The obvious response by Labour would be to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner or Lisa Nandy.
Labour just sooo need SKS to be FPNed.
You are somewhat biased, we all happen to know, due to your soft spot for a certain redhead.
I don't see how she escapes FPN apocalypse, except that she hasn't said she will resign if she gets one. And attractive is attractive, to more of the electorate than just me.
She has. And said she probably would not stand again at a GE.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Her book has a forward by Bill Gates and promo quotes from Tony Blair, Richard Branson and Elton John.
Wow, I did not know this existed. It even has positive promo quotes from Elton bloody John. How did she manage that?
None of them will have read it.
There's a whole PR industry around getting famous people to sign up to quotes and citations about books they haven't so much as browsed.
Yes but Elton John? Bill Gates?
This is not like paying £50 to Nigel Farage on Cameo so that he’ll wish a happy Brexit to Amanda Hugandkiss.
Mourdant's tome has endorsement from BILL GATES? Talk about a hostage to fortune!
FYI, he's pretty much dog-shit in Seattle. After earning his merit badges at boy-scout jamborees with Epstein, Maxwell, Bill Clinton, etc. on Fantasy Island.
BTW, when was (this) PM's book published? Bill Gates's beach blanket bingo hit the fan May of 2021.
Are you alleging some sort of foreplay for foreword arrangement took place?
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
The Holy ghost IS God.
Theology resits for you!
Theologically the Holy Ghost is God yes.
Historically it is probably a narcotic substance. “ When we have the Holy Ghost, we feel love, joy, and peace.”
The Trinity evolved from the drug taking Christians of North Africa, crossed the sea into Italy and Spain before the Council of Nicaea.
Well quite
I do bloody loathe lightweight "Christians" like HYUFD. For starters I have read the New Testament and I can guarantee he bloody hasn't, at best he has flipped through a translation into Latin or worse still a modern vernacular. And it is entirely clear to me that what Our Lord was about, was psilocybin mushrooms, and sitting on John's cock.
Replace the mocking of Christ and the Bible in that paragraph with a mocking of Muhammad and the Koran and you would be facing a Fatwa on you!
So what?
And I very genuinely think that both points are actually true. I really do.
Genuine question, the bit about Jesus loving Jonathan, what 'love' is it. I am not a classical scholar, and I can't remember if the NT is in Greek or Aramaic, but I do seem to remember there being several different words for love - brotherly love, erotic love, 'charity' in old-fashioned terms. If the one used about Jesus and John was the romantic kind, it would strengthen your case. I find it quite unlikely that the writer of the gospel concerned would want to indicate that there was a sexual relationship, even if there were one,and he knew about it.
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
Welcome. More like this please. My FB feed is full of tributes to Boris including a (for me) vomit inducing set of pictures of him at No.10 today with his children, some of them anyway, etc.
The comments are full of regret, anger, and blame for anti-Brexiters.
What you say is absolutely correct in that there are such feelings just I'm not sure to what extent throughout the country.
Yes I agree that in the south many turned against Boris but I would say many tory voters in the red wall still love him
My theory is that voters in the South think North is getting all the love and money. You can have a run down school in Tiverton, and they think the red wall is getting the money to fix it instead of them on a ratio like 99 red wall schools to 1 in Devon.
I havn’t seen psephology build this into how well the Lib Dems are doing in blue wall yet, but I anticipate it. You sense this from the TV vox pops in the by election coverage. Sure, the Lib Dem success is made up of many factors, Remainia anger, Boris taking the **** etc, but just how potent is the anger at the red wall stealing the money that could have fixed the school years ago if dished out fairly, in flipping votes?
Maybe with all the money floating around in the southern shires they could have dipped into their own pockets to help lol
Spoken like a true Northerner. 🫡
Truth is, I suspect levelling up isn’t helping to unite the country as promised. 😒
@MoonRabbit aren't you watching Dehenna on QT tonight??
I’m not ignoring you, it’s just that the last time I replied to a “she looks okay” post I suddenly couldn’t post for two weeks, making my caution worthy, anyway a key time for political discussion right now with party election to choose a Prime Minister, not a mere Lotto, so need to focus upon the psephology here, just at the moment, not be distracted on this hot night by idle chatter, or attention turned onto single ladies in their late twenties looking resplendent in pink. You understand?
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
I am lost, never having seen the series. Is the claim that Penny's complaint is that it portrays being brown or queer or female as acceptable or unacceptable or what? Also it seems an awfully old thing to be going to war about over
A decent chunk of Labour voters in the Red Wall are socially right and economically left and were very concerned about immigration .
The right wing press are desperate to avoid that immigration hasn’t gone down after Brexit.
The government is just replacing white Christians with similar values from the EU with more immigration from generally either Muslim countries and or those with quite different values .
What would have happened if during the EU referendum we had the pro EU version of Farage making this point and who was given loads of air time .
Personally I don’t give a fig where people come from as long as they’re good citizens but the hypocrisy in the right wing press is vomit inducing .
All of a sudden they don’t care about immigration as clearly they don’t want to admit they duped many people into voting for what they thought was going to be much lower immigration.
Daily Mail article from 2014 about Penny Mourdant:
"Minister staged obscene Commons debate... for a bet: Tory who appeared on TV diving contest Splash! says 'c**k' six times in lewd stunt to please sailor pals"
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
I am lost, never having seen the series. Is the claim that Penny's complaint is that it portrays being brown or queer or female as acceptable or unacceptable or what? Also it seems an awfully old thing to be going to war about over
It featured a white actor who 'blacked up' to play an Indian, the Sergeant Major went around calling his men 'Bloody great poofters' and Bombardier 'Glora' was somewhat camp and hinted to be homosexual.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
I remember watching it with my parents way back in the early 80s when I was young lad. We didn't think it offensive in anyway!
A decent chunk of Labour voters in the Red Wall are socially right and economically left and were very concerned about immigration .
The right wing press are desperate to avoid that immigration hasn’t gone down after Brexit.
The government is just replacing white Christians with similar values from the EU with more immigration from generally either Muslim countries and or those with quite different values .
What would have happened if during the EU referendum we had the pro EU version of Farage making this point and who was given loads of air time .
Personally I don’t give a fig where people come from as long as they’re good citizens but the hypocrisy in the right wing press is vomit inducing .
All of a sudden they don’t care about immigration as clearly they don’t want to admit they duped many people into voting for what they thought was going to be much lower immigration.
The same points system now applies to EU and non EU migrants, no preference to either. Before just free movement gave preference to EEA migrants
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
I am lost, never having seen the series. Is the claim that Penny's complaint is that it portrays being brown or queer or female as acceptable or unacceptable or what? Also it seems an awfully old thing to be going to war about over
It featured a white actor who 'blacked up' to play an Indian, the Sergeant Major went around calling his men 'Bloody great poofters' and Bombardier 'Glora' was somewhat camp and hinted to be homosexual.
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
They might be happy to have an incompetent liar running the country but most of us aren't so tough.
You're not related to MickTrain by any chance are you?
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
I am lost, never having seen the series. Is the claim that Penny's complaint is that it portrays being brown or queer or female as acceptable or unacceptable or what? Also it seems an awfully old thing to be going to war about over
It featured a white actor who 'blacked up' to play an Indian, the Sergeant Major went around calling his men 'Bloody great poofters' and Bombardier 'Glora' was somewhat camp and hinted to be homosexual.
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
The Holy ghost IS God.
Theology resits for you!
Theologically the Holy Ghost is God yes.
Historically it is probably a narcotic substance. “ When we have the Holy Ghost, we feel love, joy, and peace.”
The Trinity evolved from the drug taking Christians of North Africa, crossed the sea into Italy and Spain before the Council of Nicaea.
Well quite
I do bloody loathe lightweight "Christians" like HYUFD. For starters I have read the New Testament and I can guarantee he bloody hasn't, at best he has flipped through a translation into Latin or worse still a modern vernacular. And it is entirely clear to me that what Our Lord was about, was psilocybin mushrooms, and sitting on John's cock.
Replace the mocking of Christ and the Bible in that paragraph with a mocking of Muhammad and the Koran and you would be facing a Fatwa on you!
So what?
And I very genuinely think that both points are actually true. I really do.
I was off sick when the school taught classics. I am not convinced they had the same concept of gay in their world two thousand years ago, as we understand what the word means for a long time now. Maybe they didn’t have a word nailing it down like that. Maybe we are moving back towards that, undoing what we have constructed.
Muhammad and Islam is arguably a form of Christianity in a monotheistic sense, recognising Christ as just messiah, as the apostles were doing before Paul created Christianity by selling it to gentiles as Jesus as Son of God and a God. It’s the Church of Paul, Christianity, and I understand Muhammad did write to them explaining they have the Son of God rather than Messiah bit wrong. But if Paul had not sold it in that way we wouldn’t have Christianity, as Greek Gentiles liked and could relate to God and Son of God.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
I am lost, never having seen the series. Is the claim that Penny's complaint is that it portrays being brown or queer or female as acceptable or unacceptable or what? Also it seems an awfully old thing to be going to war about over
It featured a white actor who 'blacked up' to play an Indian, the Sergeant Major went around calling his men 'Bloody great poofters' and Bombardier 'Glora' was somewhat camp and hinted to be homosexual.
The whole cast were brilliant.
The browned up man was in last of the summer wine. My dad saw him in pantomime.
A replacement was found in no time in the form of Welsh-born former justice secretary Robert Buckland. As he marshalled his troops, Boris was seen punching the air, raising his hands above his head, walking around the room saying to himself: ‘We can do this!’ At one point, he declared to an ally: ‘It’s not over. Is it over? Let’s get it done.’
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
BJ was seen as an anti-politician to many. He broke the rules that said you had to do x in politics.
When many talk about the need to follow the correct standards and procedures, they conveniently omit that the rules are made by the likes of Hunt and co for the benefit of....the likes of Hunt and co. Many voters realise this and liked someone who felt they didn't have to play by those rules.
D'accord. Don't know what it was like back in dear Old Blighty (or Scotty or Taffy or Micky) back in the day, but when I was taking Civics during my schooldays, the teachers, kids and just about everybody I knew had a basic faith in the American democratic system.
Those days are gone in America, many still have retained faith and even more hope, if not always much charity (left, right and center) but many have not. Increasing alienation has led to rise of populism of various stripes, but generally tending to the right, along with politicos capable of tapping this, again with varying degrees of talent and success.
Personally think that key reason 21st-century political populism is skewing rightward, is because across much of Europe and North America, and parts of other continents as well (excepting Antarctica) folks are LESS worried about getting their fair share of whatever, and MORE concerned about keeping with little (or great) they've already got.
Back in 1930s in Louisiana, Huey Long galvanized the majority of voters (mostly White but some Blacks could vote in Pelican State esp. in New Orleans) behind his populist, anti-establishment message. A message that was LEFTWING in orientation, not socially but economically. And even as he became increasingly dictatorial withing Louisiana, genuine support for his policies AND methods held firm. When he was at last cut down by the bullet of his assassin (or more likely the fusillade of his bodyguards) Huey was challenging FDR from the left, in lead-up to 1936 election.
Way back when, most Louisiana's (of whatever skin tone) were lucky to have a pot to piss in. Hence the leftward tilt of Huey, FDR and American populism in the 1930s. Though there was also a significant amount of rightwing populism as well, most notably Father Coughlin.
Can you suggest a good biography of Long?
The classic is "Huey Long: A Biography" by T. Harry Williams (1969) extensively researched, including large number of oral interviews with Huey's associates AND opponents while they were still alive and kicking. Rather long-in-tooth, and while not uncritical, it is generally sympathetic to the Kingfish's motives if not always his methods.
Dr. Williams was a long-time fixture and adornment of the History Department of Louisiana State University, most famous for his Civil War study, "Lincoln and His Generals". When I was a (sometime) student at LSU, I (unofficially) audited T. Harry's course (that's what everyone called him at LSU in Deep South fashion) on the Civil war. Magisterial and majestic.
He was an old man by then, but he held a huge auditorium classroom in the palm of his hand, for hour-and-half two days a week. Only spent the last two of the semester on the actual battles! But that was well worth waiting for.
Back in those sinful days, T. Harry concluded his final lecture, with the story of CSS Shenandoah. Confederate raider that left the yard at Liverpool (IIRC) and somehow ended up hunting the New England whaling fleet in the Bering Sea. Captain & crew were cutting a swath of destruction through US shipping when they encountered a British ship with newspaper from San Francisco, reporting Lee's surrender at Appomattox Court House. But instead of turning themselves into the Federals, or sailing for Hong Kong, they decided to sail for . . . England. Where they at last arrived, in September 1865, ran down the Confederate Flag, and turned the ship over to British authorities.
When T. Harry reached the climax of the story of CSS Shenandoah, the frat boys (a sizable contingent) jumped up and gave their best Rebel Yell. And must admit that I, great-great grandson of Union soldiers who fought at Gettysburg turning back the high tide of the Confederacy, well, I got up and hollered too.
Thankyou! I'll appropriate a copy and take a bite out of the monthly book budget.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
I remember watching it with my parents way back in the early 80s when I was young lad. We didn't think it offensive in anyway!
I watched it when I was small too, maybe on vintage tv channel in early noughties.
There was a series on Channel 4 showing 1970s 1980s television to much younger people today who missed it, and filming their shocked reaction, and lots of shows were using blacking up. It is much better today Sunil. The world has moved on for the better, probably down to many brave people saying, hang on, wait a moment. Shows like that allows us to appreciate how things have changed for the better. We are in midst of a change. Bridgerton was filmed “colour blind”.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
What’s the It Ain’t Half Hot Mum reference?
Penny’s book calls it out as ticking every single unacceptable box, a poster claimed tonight.
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
I am lost, never having seen the series. Is the claim that Penny's complaint is that it portrays being brown or queer or female as acceptable or unacceptable or what? Also it seems an awfully old thing to be going to war about over
It featured a white actor who 'blacked up' to play an Indian, the Sergeant Major went around calling his men 'Bloody great poofters' and Bombardier 'Glora' was somewhat camp and hinted to be homosexual.
The whole cast were brilliant.
The browned up man was in last of the summer wine. My dad saw him in pantomime.
Let’s face it, the whole Tory circus has the air of a Croft and Perry sitcom set on a failing seaside holiday camp.
You have been watching…
W Rees-Mogg as HAUNTED COAT-RACK D Raab as DOVER WITLESS L Truss as THIRD RATE MAGGIE N Dorries as TRAGIC LOBOTOMY
Those who remember me will recall my interest in the goings-on of Henley constituency and SODC. Happy to report I returned to the land I grew up in this evening, and since I was sittig on the lawn at Henley Festival infront of Mrs May on the regatta stand I can reliably report she was bringing back the robot in all her glory, and good for her. Must feel so sweet.
Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.
So the CSS Shenandoah refused to surrender at the end of our great Civil War -- just like two -- if I recall correctly -- Nazi submarines that refused to surrender at the end of WW II, but instead headed for Argentina.
Another similarity: Some Confederates went to South America, although to Brazil rather than Argentina. (Slavery was legal in Brazil until 1888 -- and was practiced long before the Portuguese arrived. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Brazil )
Is it me or does this caretaker thing sound viable...the way Johnson sacked and spoke with former allies/colleagues means I cannot fathom how he will continue to work as PM for maybe 7-8 weeks... I just dont believe he will step back.
It got very bitter when May was forced out too but there was no problem with the caretaker period. I think you're just overreacting to the drama.
Comments
Charlwood (Mole Valley) Result:
GRN: 41.7% (+13.6)
LDM: 30.8% (+9.5)
CON: 24.4% (-22.0)
LAB: 3.1% (New)
No UKIP (-14.1) as prev.
Green GAIN from Conservative.
Changes w/ 2019.
"Well, what is it, private?"
"Sir, bad news, sir. I'm afraid the enemy have take Leamington Spa"
"Nitwit! That's ROYAL Leamington Spa. Show some respect!"
"Yes sir, sorry sir. God save the Queen sir."
"Hmm what? Oh yes, God save the Queen. Now what are we going to do about Leamington Spa?"
"Royal Leamington Spa, sir"
"Private! I'm trying to think here!"
"Sorry sir, God save the Queen."
"Alright, how about a flanking manoeuvre from the North?"
"Sir, that would mean going into Coventry"
"And? What's wrong with that?"
"Sir you told us to nuke it last week, sir. And, well... we did."
"Did I? Did you? Gracious. How did that go?"
"Very well sir, we evacuated the Conservative voters beforehand"
"Good work, private! Now, what can you tell me about Leamington Spa?"
"Ro--"
"Private!"
"Sorry sir. It's another Labour seat, sir."
"Very well. Arm the warheads."
LAB: 53.7% (+0.9)
CON: 24.5% (-9.0)
LDM: 16.4% (+2.6)
ABTL: 5.5% (New)
Labour HOLD.
Changes w/ 2022.
Enthusiasm for Labour off the charts again!
Semper Fi, MR ED SIR!
Truth is, I suspect levelling up isn’t helping to unite the country as promised. 😒
And I very genuinely think that both points are actually true. I really do.
I work 22 hours a day on the Defund JK Rowling campaign and the other two hours at the food bank helping the poor and wretched victims of racist Britain.
Despite some stiff competition, this French journalist thinks Johnson is "the vilest, most amoral, most dishonest leader of post-war Europe".
https://twitter.com/MarionVanR/status/1545040303114989570
LAB: 52.0% (+5.7)
CON: 32.8% (-6.4)
LDM: 9.7% (+5.3)
GRN: 5.5% (-1.8)
No IND (-2.9) as prev.
Labour HOLD.
Changes w/ 2021.
Labour in Worthing improve a little further but a rather nin descript result really
Dr. Williams was a long-time fixture and adornment of the History Department of Louisiana State University, most famous for his Civil War study, "Lincoln and His Generals". When I was a (sometime) student at LSU, I (unofficially) audited T. Harry's course (that's what everyone called him at LSU in Deep South fashion) on the Civil war. Magisterial and majestic.
He was an old man by then, but he held a huge auditorium classroom in the palm of his hand, for hour-and-half two days a week. Only spent the last two of the semester on the actual battles! But that was well worth waiting for.
Back in those sinful days, T. Harry concluded his final lecture, with the story of CSS Shenandoah. Confederate raider that left the yard at Liverpool (IIRC) and somehow ended up hunting the New England whaling fleet in the Bering Sea. Captain & crew were cutting a swath of destruction through US shipping when they encountered a British ship with newspaper from San Francisco, reporting Lee's surrender at Appomattox Court House. But instead of turning themselves into the Federals, or sailing for Hong Kong, they decided to sail for . . . England. Where they at last arrived, in September 1865, ran down the Confederate Flag, and turned the ship over to British authorities.
When T. Harry reached the climax of the story of CSS Shenandoah, the frat boys (a sizable contingent) jumped up and gave their best Rebel Yell. And must admit that I, great-great grandson of Union soldiers who fought at Gettysburg turning back the high tide of the Confederacy, well, I got up and hollered too.
https://what-if.xkcd.com/4/
Streeting or Burnham longer term would be the only realistic alternatives
LAB: 41.8% (-15.2)
GRN: 40.3% (+18.0)
LDM: 7.3% (-5.0)
IND: 4.6% (-3.8)
CON: 4.5% (New)
WEP: 1.5% (New)
Labour HOLD.
Changes w/ 2022.
Labour's inner London problems continue to bubble along
At the time he came across as a socially liberal , eccentric larger than life character who was also very internationalist. A pretty decent fit for London .
He then won the GE against a toxic Corbyn with a Get Brexit Done Message and oven ready deal which turned out to be another lie , but duped sufficient people .
His electoral winning powers in terms of actual results are good but he really just scored into an open goal .
It was pathetic
The idea that with Boris gone they will automatically flock to SKS seems utterly bizarre to me.
A sad fact celebrated by the cruel Jacobite toast "to the little gentleman in the black velvet waistcoat".
I have seen some episodes of it and thought it clever and funny. But I am from Yorkshire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqAOj6pLoA4
Now those have been achieved and we are 12 not 9 years in power I want a proper Tory PM as leader
"don't seem to like her"
Citations required.
You're completely mad.
David and Jonathan on the other hand...
Actually I’ll go and watch it now.
The right wing press are desperate to avoid that immigration hasn’t gone down after Brexit.
The government is just replacing white Christians with similar values from the EU with more immigration from generally either Muslim countries and or those with quite different values .
What would have happened if during the EU referendum we had the pro EU version of Farage making this point and who was given loads of air time .
Personally I don’t give a fig where people come from as long as they’re good citizens but the hypocrisy in the right wing press is vomit inducing .
All of a sudden they don’t care about immigration as clearly they don’t want to admit they duped many people into voting for what they thought was going to be much lower immigration.
"Minister staged obscene Commons debate... for a bet: Tory who appeared on TV diving contest Splash! says 'c**k' six times in lewd stunt to please sailor pals"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2854421/Minister-staged-obscene-Commons-debate-BET-Tory-says-c-k-six-times-lewd-stunt-sailor-pals.html
Good spot.
Hi Kevin,
I can't help notice that you are MickTrain. I'm happy to let it slide, so long as you simply respond to this email to verify it is genuine.
Thanks
Robert
Muhammad and Islam is arguably a form of Christianity in a monotheistic sense, recognising Christ as just messiah, as the apostles were doing before Paul created Christianity by selling it to gentiles as Jesus as Son of God and a God. It’s the Church of Paul, Christianity, and I understand Muhammad did write to them explaining they have the Son of God rather than Messiah bit wrong. But if Paul had not sold it in that way we wouldn’t have Christianity, as Greek Gentiles liked and could relate to God and Son of God.
Greens made some in-roads last election proper, but that’s actually surprisingly close.
Not a good sign for Labour, and in what may be their best-run council.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10992989/ANDREW-PIERCE-reveals-gripping-inside-story-tense-hours-No-10-bunker.html
There was a series on Channel 4 showing 1970s 1980s television to much younger people today who missed it, and filming their shocked reaction, and lots of shows were using blacking up. It is much better today Sunil. The world has moved on for the better, probably down to many brave people saying, hang on, wait a moment. Shows like that allows us to appreciate how things have changed for the better. We are in midst of a change. Bridgerton was filmed “colour blind”.
You have been watching…
W Rees-Mogg as HAUNTED COAT-RACK
D Raab as DOVER WITLESS
L Truss as THIRD RATE MAGGIE
N Dorries as TRAGIC LOBOTOMY
special guest
M Gove as “POB”
and
B Johnson as LYING SACK OF SHIT
Go, go, go to the holiday rock!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ffqemZ-YOi7AvAw8HbxmMd0vIbsOXLZ7KpAmNQPD2r8/edit#gid=0
Another similarity: Some Confederates went to South America, although to Brazil rather than Argentina. (Slavery was legal in Brazil until 1888 -- and was practiced long before the Portuguese arrived. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Brazil )