Extraordinary. Minister on Newsnight saying he wouldn't comment when pressed on if Johnson might try to cut and run for an election whilst in his caretaker role.
Pointless. Hes no longer Tory party leader, he wouldnt be PM even if they won and would have no part in the manifesto etc.
Isn't Wallace's appeal basically the same as the winning entry in eurovision ? I'm not sure that's the best basis for a new PM. Sunak's the man for me still x
If Boris has been kicked out in large part because he was fined for partying in lockdown I don't see how the Tories can replace him with Sunak who was also fined for attending the same party as well as facing allegations over his and his wife's tax affairs.
No, the Tories want someone dull as ditchwater, but competent and scandal free like Wallace
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Her book has a foreword by Bill Gates and promo quotes from Tony Blair, Richard Branson and Elton John.
Extraordinary. Minister on Newsnight saying he wouldn't comment when pressed on if Johnson might try to cut and run for an election whilst in his caretaker role.
Things have changed since when I posted about this earlier - he'd be refused now as he's no longer leader of the largest party. Simples.
There is a lot of affection for Johnson in the red wall trust me The daily mail is playing to this constituency I honestly think this could all backfire on the conservatives
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
To be fair to evangelicals - who are mostly really nice and decent people - those in politics tend to get hammered, like Farron, for having views which are unfashionable but fairly widely shared, while Roman Catholics and the Islamic community also have all sorts of minority views but tend to be miraculously protected from scrutiny.
What? Not my impression that the Islamic community are protected from scrutiny - their beliefs are widely and IMo unfairly regarded with suspicion, and attacked every few days in mainstream media, because some lunatics claim to share them. Evangelicals are seen as a bit cranky, but few would go further than that. I don't really care what Baker's beliefs are, unless they affect his policies.
How often is the fairly rampant anti Semitism of some Muslim communities addressed? Seldom. How often is the widespread homophobia of many Muslim communities addressed? Never, as far as I can see
How often does Leon turn up the chance of posting some inflammatory Islamophobic nonsense? Seldom.
OK, can we back up a bit?
Is it nonsense that homophobia is mainstream in Islam?
Is it nonsense that antisemitism is mainstream in Islam?
Is it nonsense tha there is a teacher who is still in hiding and under police protection somewhere in england because he GASP HORROR showed a graphic representation of the Muslim Spaghetti Monster to a class of children?
Are you happy with any or all of the above?
It is nonsense to claim that these issues are never addressed. I read about them on PB.com most weeks, for starters.
But that is purely circular, because you have already said that oyu dismiss postings here as "inflammatory Islamophobic nonsense." Try again but harder.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Her book has a forward by Bill Gates and promo quotes from Tony Blair, Richard Branson and Elton John.
Wow, I did not know this existed. It even has positive promo quotes from Elton bloody John. How did she manage that?
None of them will have read it.
There's a whole PR industry around getting famous people to sign up to quotes and citations about books they haven't so much as browsed.
Yes but Elton John? Bill Gates?
This is not like paying £50 to Nigel Farage on Cameo so that he’ll wish a happy Brexit to Amanda Hugandkiss.
This is all Elton John said: “I’m deeply proud to be British, not least because of the extraordinarily brave, funny, brilliant, kind and talented people who call these small islands home. In particular, I’m proud of Britain’s history of engaging in the challenges people face, not just at home but around the world. It has inspired and supported the work of my AIDS Foundation, which aims to help end this devastating pandemic around the world. A book examining what it means to be British and Britain’s potential to be a force for good in the world is timely. Penny and Chris should be congratulated on seizing the opportunity to look forward in this interesting and enjoyable book.”
That's a rent-a-quote that says essentially nothing about the book, except that he'd been told what it was about, whilst also promoting his own foundation.
Admittedly, the foreword by Bill Gates is slightly more impressive. But 'she' got both because of her co-author Chris Lewis, who'd worked for both Elton John and Bill Gates:
Isn't Wallace's appeal basically the same as the winning entry in eurovision ? I'm not sure that's the best basis for a new PM. Sunak's the man for me still x
Just laid Wallace a little bit.
I'm not convinced he will go the distance as they say in racing/
If he couldn’t go the distance when you laid him, I can see that would be disappointing and frustrating.
There is a lot of affection for Johnson in the red wall trust me The daily mail is playing to this constituency I honestly think this could all backfire on the conservatives
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Watching some vox pops earlier, I was struck by the way Boris seemed to be held in genuine affection by voters in the Red Wall seats. A possible nightmare for the Tories: these people actually start resenting to Tories for doing the dirty on 'their' Boris and holding their preferences in contempt; they then vote to punish the Tories accordingly. The Tories might have just killed the golden goose.
Yes, I think that's spot on. Far from harming Labour, Boris's downfall will benefit them in a significant number of marginal seats in the midlands and north, as well as some coastal seats around the country. And I don't think that will change whoever replaces Boris.
I disagree. I believe it’s related to investment in their communities, not simply Boris. These communities won’t forget Labour took them for granted, nor forget levelling up predated Boris when they started electing Tory Mayors and Tory MPs.
Labour are not getting lots of red wall votes back over a short time frame. Penny merely needs to be on front of local gazette in photo with local mayor and MP above headline “more investment agreed” to restore todays severed link.
Corks are popping in Brussels and Moscow apparently. What on earth is the Mail smoking?
That’s just true. Eurocrats hated Boris, Putin and Co hate him now he’s so vividly pro-Ukraine
He's hated up and down this country too. The polling is pretty clear. Sorry your man turned out so shit.
But it's also a fair point that some people still really loved Boris. And their votes count as much as anyone else's- maybe more, if they are people who turn out a lot in the right seats.
I can't remember who first articualted the theory that Johnson had a low floor but a high ceiling for his popularity; he'd probably lead the Conservatives to a calamatous defeat, but might just work his magic one more time. Whereas anyone else would steer the Conservatives to a smaller but almost certain defeat (higher floor, lower celing).
Ditching Boris was the right thing to do, and should have happened ages ago. But it isn't cost-free.
Sure, fine. I'm just pointing out that this grubby attempt to insinuate that Boris's enemies are foreign is in the finest tradition of ignoring two third of our own country.
Not only that but the doltish pairing of Moscow and Brussels. Xenophobic tripe, spoon fed to hateful elderly dribblers.
Corks are popping in Brussels and Moscow apparently. What on earth is the Mail smoking?
That’s just true. Eurocrats hated Boris, Putin and Co hate him now he’s so vividly pro-Ukraine
He's hated up and down this country too. The polling is pretty clear. Sorry your man turned out so shit.
But it's also a fair point that some people still really loved Boris. And their votes count as much as anyone else's- maybe more, if they are people who turn out a lot in the right seats.
I can't remember who first articualted the theory that Johnson had a low floor but a high ceiling for his popularity; he'd probably lead the Conservatives to a calamatous defeat, but might just work his magic one more time. Whereas anyone else would steer the Conservatives to a smaller but almost certain defeat (higher floor, lower celing).
Ditching Boris was the right thing to do, and should have happened ages ago. But it isn't cost-free.
If the Tories lose heavily to Sir Keir having been led by some dull mediocrity, I wonder if Boris will be tempted to make a comeback. A historical precedent would be Richard Nixon with whom - not least the initial resignation speech of both men - their are some striking parallels.
There is a lot of affection for Johnson in the red wall trust me The daily mail is playing to this constituency I honestly think this could all backfire on the conservatives
That may be true.
But at end of the day, Johnson transgressed one of the unwritten rules of the constitution - you cannot lie knowingly to Parliament (and he did so repeatedly). In the long term the fact that in the end the system made sure that rule applied is far more important than the disappointed voting denizens of Mrs Miggins pie shop in Macclesfield.
Watching some vox pops earlier, I was struck by the way Boris seemed to be held in genuine affection by voters in the Red Wall seats. A possible nightmare for the Tories: these people actually start resenting to Tories for doing the dirty on 'their' Boris and holding their preferences in contempt; they then vote to punish the Tories accordingly. The Tories might have just killed the golden goose.
Yes, I think that's spot on. Far from harming Labour, Boris's downfall will benefit them in a significant number of marginal seats in the midlands and north, as well as some coastal seats around the country. And I don't think that will change whoever replaces Boris.
They were damned of they got rid of him and damned if they didn't. Such a shame, the Tories are a great bunch of lads. I suppose that's what happens when you sell your soul in the name of power, though. There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
There is a lot of affection for Johnson in the red wall trust me The daily mail is playing to this constituency I honestly think this could all backfire on the conservatives
Have you been trying to follow Leon's guide to punctuation and rather misread it?
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It's her main redeeming feature.
She is not a culture warrior for the forces of reaction.
Given you're possibly the Wokest person on here this is the kiss of death for her.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Her book has a forward by Bill Gates and promo quotes from Tony Blair, Richard Branson and Elton John.
Wow, I did not know this existed. It even has positive promo quotes from Elton bloody John. How did she manage that?
None of them will have read it.
There's a whole PR industry around getting famous people to sign up to quotes and citations about books they haven't so much as browsed.
Yes but Elton John? Bill Gates?
This is not like paying £50 to Nigel Farage on Cameo so that he’ll wish a happy Brexit to Amanda Hugandkiss.
Mourdant's tome has endorsement from BILL GATES? Talk about a hostage to fortune!
FYI, he's pretty much dog-shit in Seattle. After earning his merit badges at boy-scout jamborees with Epstein, Maxwell, Bill Clinton, etc. on Fantasy Island.
BTW, when was (this) PM's book published? Bill Gates's beach blanket bingo hit the fan May of 2021.
There is a lot of affection for Johnson in the red wall trust me The daily mail is playing to this constituency I honestly think this could all backfire on the conservatives
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
I've faith humans would find the right balance. But they're not being allowed to. The state is shoehorning people down the hyper woke route - as any visit to a secondary school will attest. If we could simply stop doing so and let what needs to happen, happen, there wouldn't be so much resistance.
There is a lot of affection for Johnson in the red wall trust me The daily mail is playing to this constituency I honestly think this could all backfire on the conservatives
Welcome to PB, Nadine
The tell is the complete lack of punctuation; it’s only semi-literate.
Corks are popping in Brussels and Moscow apparently. What on earth is the Mail smoking?
That’s just true. Eurocrats hated Boris, Putin and Co hate him now he’s so vividly pro-Ukraine
He's hated up and down this country too. The polling is pretty clear. Sorry your man turned out so shit.
But it's also a fair point that some people still really loved Boris. And their votes count as much as anyone else's- maybe more, if they are people who turn out a lot in the right seats.
I can't remember who first articualted the theory that Johnson had a low floor but a high ceiling for his popularity; he'd probably lead the Conservatives to a calamatous defeat, but might just work his magic one more time. Whereas anyone else would steer the Conservatives to a smaller but almost certain defeat (higher floor, lower celing).
Ditching Boris was the right thing to do, and should have happened ages ago. But it isn't cost-free.
Sure, fine. I'm just pointing out that this grubby attempt to insinuate that Boris's enemies are foreign is in the finest tradition of ignoring two third of our own country.
Not only that but the doltish pairing of Moscow and Brussels. Xenophobic tripe, spoon fed to hateful elderly dribblers.
I believe Big G gets it “for the sudoku”.
To be fair I only buy the Guardian on Saturday because my daughter and I like to do the killer sudoku together.
The stab-in-the-back myth is lurching to life even as we write.
Looking forward to the bit where Boris and Nadine lead a beer-hall putsch in Munich.
It took 15 years for the Tory party to get over the toppling of Thatcher in 1990, most of them spent in division and opposition until Cameron was elected in 2005. Boris is no Thatcher but the wounds will not easily heal
I’m loving every second of this. That Mail front page is pure gold dust.
Isn't Wallace's appeal basically the same as the winning entry in eurovision ? I'm not sure that's the best basis for a new PM. Sunak's the man for me still x
No, the winning Eurovision singer usually has some pizazz.
Extraordinary. Minister on Newsnight saying he wouldn't comment when pressed on if Johnson might try to cut and run for an election whilst in his caretaker role.
Things have changed since when I posted about this earlier - he'd be refused now as he's no longer leader of the largest party. Simples.
And even if he somehow succeeded, the Tories settle on a leader immediately who then deselects him and boots him out of the party. He can no longer win an election and remain PM under any circumstances
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
That's only 2 out of 3. What about JC, or are you embarrassed about his blindingly obv homosexual relationship with John?
The Christian service includes according to God's holy law and exchange of rings in the sight of Father, Son and Holy Ghost so does take a small part.
You can mock Christ, I could mock the prophet of your religion of heritage but of course some of them would then impose a Fatwa
Extraordinary. Minister on Newsnight saying he wouldn't comment when pressed on if Johnson might try to cut and run for an election whilst in his caretaker role.
Pointless. Hes no longer Tory party leader, he wouldnt be PM even if they won and would have no part in the manifesto etc.
Which shows the spectacularly low quality of the current crop of Ministers. Your answer is as obvious as it is perfect and any Minister worth his or her salt would have replied with such a comment immediately.
Corks are popping in Brussels and Moscow apparently. What on earth is the Mail smoking?
That’s just true. Eurocrats hated Boris, Putin and Co hate him now he’s so vividly pro-Ukraine
He's hated up and down this country too. The polling is pretty clear. Sorry your man turned out so shit.
But it's also a fair point that some people still really loved Boris. And their votes count as much as anyone else's- maybe more, if they are people who turn out a lot in the right seats.
I can't remember who first articualted the theory that Johnson had a low floor but a high ceiling for his popularity; he'd probably lead the Conservatives to a calamatous defeat, but might just work his magic one more time. Whereas anyone else would steer the Conservatives to a smaller but almost certain defeat (higher floor, lower celing).
Ditching Boris was the right thing to do, and should have happened ages ago. But it isn't cost-free.
Ooh I think that was my theory! At least, I expressed it. I may not have been the first. I still think it's true though.
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
To be fair to evangelicals - who are mostly really nice and decent people - those in politics tend to get hammered, like Farron, for having views which are unfashionable but fairly widely shared, while Roman Catholics and the Islamic community also have all sorts of minority views but tend to be miraculously protected from scrutiny.
What? Not my impression that the Islamic community are protected from scrutiny - their beliefs are widely and IMo unfairly regarded with suspicion, and attacked every few days in mainstream media, because some lunatics claim to share them. Evangelicals are seen as a bit cranky, but few would go further than that. I don't really care what Baker's beliefs are, unless they affect his policies.
How often is the fairly rampant anti Semitism of some Muslim communities addressed? Seldom. How often is the widespread homophobia of many Muslim communities addressed? Never, as far as I can see
How often does Leon turn up the chance of posting some inflammatory Islamophobic nonsense? Seldom.
OK, can we back up a bit?
Is it nonsense that homophobia is mainstream in Islam?
Is it nonsense that antisemitism is mainstream in Islam?
Is it nonsense tha there is a teacher who is still in hiding and under police protection somewhere in england because he GASP HORROR showed a graphic representation of the Muslim Spaghetti Monster to a class of children?
Are you happy with any or all of the above?
It is nonsense to claim that these issues are never addressed. I read about them on PB.com most weeks, for starters.
Corks are popping in Brussels and Moscow apparently. What on earth is the Mail smoking?
That’s just true. Eurocrats hated Boris, Putin and Co hate him now he’s so vividly pro-Ukraine
He's hated up and down this country too. The polling is pretty clear. Sorry your man turned out so shit.
But it's also a fair point that some people still really loved Boris. And their votes count as much as anyone else's- maybe more, if they are people who turn out a lot in the right seats.
I can't remember who first articualted the theory that Johnson had a low floor but a high ceiling for his popularity; he'd probably lead the Conservatives to a calamatous defeat, but might just work his magic one more time. Whereas anyone else would steer the Conservatives to a smaller but almost certain defeat (higher floor, lower celing).
Ditching Boris was the right thing to do, and should have happened ages ago. But it isn't cost-free.
If the Tories lose heavily to Sir Keir having been led by some dull mediocrity, I wonder if Boris will be tempted to make a comeback. A historical precedent would be Richard Nixon with whom - not least the initial resignation speech of both men - their are some striking parallels.
A more accurate and imaginative parallel than the usual one with Trump.
Corks are popping in Brussels and Moscow apparently. What on earth is the Mail smoking?
That’s just true. Eurocrats hated Boris, Putin and Co hate him now he’s so vividly pro-Ukraine
He's hated up and down this country too. The polling is pretty clear. Sorry your man turned out so shit.
But it's also a fair point that some people still really loved Boris. And their votes count as much as anyone else's- maybe more, if they are people who turn out a lot in the right seats.
I can't remember who first articualted the theory that Johnson had a low floor but a high ceiling for his popularity; he'd probably lead the Conservatives to a calamatous defeat, but might just work his magic one more time. Whereas anyone else would steer the Conservatives to a smaller but almost certain defeat (higher floor, lower celing).
Ditching Boris was the right thing to do, and should have happened ages ago. But it isn't cost-free.
If the Tories lose heavily to Sir Keir having been led by some dull mediocrity, I wonder if Boris will be tempted to make a comeback. A historical precedent would be Richard Nixon with whom - not least the initial resignation speech of both men - their are some striking parallels.
Or even Trump who having been beaten by Biden in 2020 now leads him in some polls.
Nixon of course lost his first general election in 1960 unlike Boris so slightly different
Corks are popping in Brussels and Moscow apparently. What on earth is the Mail smoking?
That’s just true. Eurocrats hated Boris, Putin and Co hate him now he’s so vividly pro-Ukraine
He's hated up and down this country too. The polling is pretty clear. Sorry your man turned out so shit.
But it's also a fair point that some people still really loved Boris. And their votes count as much as anyone else's- maybe more, if they are people who turn out a lot in the right seats.
I can't remember who first articualted the theory that Johnson had a low floor but a high ceiling for his popularity; he'd probably lead the Conservatives to a calamatous defeat, but might just work his magic one more time. Whereas anyone else would steer the Conservatives to a smaller but almost certain defeat (higher floor, lower celing).
Ditching Boris was the right thing to do, and should have happened ages ago. But it isn't cost-free.
Somebody should’ve told the Tory MPs that *before* the garrotting 😄
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It's her main redeeming feature.
She is not a culture warrior for the forces of reaction.
Given you're possibly the Wokest person on here this is the kiss of death for her.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
Suits me to have her written off. She is the only contender who could get a following with the under 65's, and have a reasonable chance of defending the Blue Wall.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It’s not a problem with me. But what is it anyway, packed under woke umbrella? Can you really get away with everything from ain’t alf hot mum to trans gender rights in sport, offensive statues to he she and they without accepting your doing nothing but Wallace trying to hold a door like knut held the tide? Everything single one of those things are considered on merit not blanket labelled - where’s your faith gone that each considered on merit we will find the happy medium on each, where is all your lily livened fears coming from? Do they burst forth like Zeus when you get your first fuddyduddy birthday card?
Moaning about “woke” is a lack of faith in the human spirit will get things right.
Leave Penny alone on woke 😠
I've faith humans would find the right balance. But they're not being allowed to. The state is shoehorning people down the hyper woke route - as any visit to a secondary school will attest. If we could simply stop doing so and let what needs to happen, happen, there wouldn't be so much resistance.
I want someone who will put up sensible political resistance to this, and force common sense.
Liz Truss has done this. Kemi Badenoch has done this. JK Rowling has done this. Rosie Duffield has done this. Tony Blair has done this. Sarah Champion has done this.
Penny Mordaunt will not do this, and indeed may fuel it further, and given how strongly I detest identity politics and how it's pulling us apart into an intersectional hierarchy, that's a red line for me.
There are some people up here who adore Boris. And I mean love him. Not the Conservative Party. Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone. That's all I'm saying.
Yes lots love him in the red wall. These people have been betrayed and they won't forget it
BJ was seen as an anti-politician to many. He broke the rules that said you had to do x in politics.
When many talk about the need to follow the correct standards and procedures, they conveniently omit that the rules are made by the likes of Hunt and co for the benefit of....the likes of Hunt and co. Many voters realise this and liked someone who felt they didn't have to play by those rules.
Extraordinary. Minister on Newsnight saying he wouldn't comment when pressed on if Johnson might try to cut and run for an election whilst in his caretaker role.
Pointless. Hes no longer Tory party leader, he wouldnt be PM even if they won and would have no part in the manifesto etc.
Which shows the spectacularly low quality of the current crop of Ministers. Your answer is as obvious as it is perfect and any Minister worth his or her salt would have replied with such a comment immediately.
That the interviewer asked such a question ... 😒
There is a weird level of hysteria still bubbling away. Whats been said cannot be unsaid, the job that has been left cannot be retaken. The deed is done. He has 2 weeks of parliamentary time left and no support to pass anything stupid, he is a figurehead only and on any misuse of his reserved powers that he can get by cabinet and his 'handlers' an immediate recall for a VONC Hes an arsehole, hes not Ernst Blofeld
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It's her main redeeming feature.
She is not a culture warrior for the forces of reaction.
Given you're possibly the Wokest person on here this is the kiss of death for her.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
Suits me to have her written off. She is the only contender who could get a following with the under 65's, and have a reasonable chance of defending the Blue Wall.
Those blue wall conservatives might bleat about woke issues but are ultimately all about the money. Most will stay with the tories
There is a lot of affection for Johnson in the red wall trust me The daily mail is playing to this constituency I honestly think this could all backfire on the conservatives
Oh I do hope you’re right.
This makes D Ross’s hokey cokey look like a work of genius.
I used to be John Major's biggest defender on here but he's an idiot for saying the membership shouldn't get a vote on the new leader.
Major is a piece of work
He really really is. A duplicitous, nasty, mediocre quisling, he makes Heseltine look honourable and he makes Grieve look, OK no he doesn’t Grieve is vile and obviously so
But still. An important part of growing up as a conservative is realising that John Major is PUKEWORTHY
The interesting thing about Penny Mordaunt is that she is slightly woke for a Tory but not in a way that anyone would ever get particularly annoyed or exercised about. Anti-woke Conservatives could live with her as leader.
But at end of the day, Johnson transgressed one of the unwritten rules of the constitution - you cannot lie knowingly to Parliament (and he did so repeatedly)
He did, but I'm far from convinced that's why he's finally gone. I'd suggest the unwritten rule that was broken was perhaps "you cannot piss off most of your MPs and the cabinet, and then look like you're not a winner any more"...
Corks are popping in Brussels and Moscow apparently. What on earth is the Mail smoking?
That’s just true. Eurocrats hated Boris, Putin and Co hate him now he’s so vividly pro-Ukraine
He's hated up and down this country too. The polling is pretty clear. Sorry your man turned out so shit.
But it's also a fair point that some people still really loved Boris. And their votes count as much as anyone else's- maybe more, if they are people who turn out a lot in the right seats.
I can't remember who first articualted the theory that Johnson had a low floor but a high ceiling for his popularity; he'd probably lead the Conservatives to a calamatous defeat, but might just work his magic one more time. Whereas anyone else would steer the Conservatives to a smaller but almost certain defeat (higher floor, lower celing).
Ditching Boris was the right thing to do, and should have happened ages ago. But it isn't cost-free.
Somebody should’ve told the Tory MPs that *before* the garrotting 😄
Because being a twat is at the very core of his being. Being a twat was what propelled him forward. Being a twat was why he got to be prime minister in the first place. His strength and his weakness were two sides of the same coin. It's the tragic hero, innit? The Greeks understood this.
I read her book where she spent a good few pages having a go at It Ain't Have Hot Mum for having a "full house".
You can be sure that would all come out in a leadership campaign. I'm not sure how it would affect the MP votes but it would hurt her with the members.
Oh God, is she Woke??
Oh yes. Just look up her Mumsnet interview.
It's the worst thing about her.
It's her main redeeming feature.
She is not a culture warrior for the forces of reaction.
Given you're possibly the Wokest person on here this is the kiss of death for her.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
Suits me to have her written off. She is the only contender who could get a following with the under 65's, and have a reasonable chance of defending the Blue Wall.
Disagree. I think her stance on 'woke' issues could damn her.
A piece of anecdote. I was at a reunion at my old college, chatting away to a group of other alum, all in Tory seats, all middle class and clearly quite socially liberal when it came to most things. The one thing that got that wound up immensely was how the woke - and specifically the trans - issue was being pushed at school. It's way I don't think the Lib Dems will do well in the GE because once Davey is asked "what's a woman?", he's not going to be able to get past the issue.
There is a lot of affection for Johnson in the red wall trust me The daily mail is playing to this constituency I honestly think this could all backfire on the conservatives
Oh I do hope you’re right.
This makes D Ross’s hokey cokey look like a work of genius.
I used to be John Major's biggest defender on here but he's an idiot for saying the membership shouldn't get a vote on the new leader.
Major is a piece of work
He really really is. A duplicitous, nasty, mediocre quisling, he makes Heseltine look honourable and he makes Grieve look, OK no he doesn’t Grieve is vile and obviously so
But still. An important part of growing up as a conservative is realising that John Major is PUKEWORTHY
I’m loving this Toryboy on Toryboy action. Grease up lads.
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
Isn't Wallace's appeal basically the same as the winning entry in eurovision ? I'm not sure that's the best basis for a new PM. Sunak's the man for me still x
If Boris has been kicked out in large part because he was fined for partying in lockdown I don't see how the Tories can replace him with Sunak who was also fined for attending the same party as well as facing allegations over his and his wife's tax affairs.
No, the Tories want someone dull as ditchwater, but competent and scandal free like Wallace
Boris is a unique individual, they don't just like him they sympathise with him and forgive him. They recognise his generosity of spirit in contrast to many of the pygmies against him
I used to be John Major's biggest defender on here but he's an idiot for saying the membership shouldn't get a vote on the new leader.
Major is a piece of work
He really really is. A duplicitous, nasty, mediocre quisling, he makes Heseltine look honourable and he makes Grieve look, OK no he doesn’t Grieve is vile and obviously so
But still. An important part of growing up as a conservative is realising that John Major is PUKEWORTHY
He took the decision sometime around 2001 to become a prick and really invest some time and effort in it
The interesting thing about Penny Mordaunt is that she is slightly woke for a Tory but not in a way that anyone would ever get particularly annoyed or exercised about. Anti-woke Conservatives could live with her as leader.
I used to be John Major's biggest defender on here but he's an idiot for saying the membership shouldn't get a vote on the new leader.
Major is a piece of work
He really really is. A duplicitous, nasty, mediocre quisling, he makes Heseltine look honourable and he makes Grieve look, OK no he doesn’t Grieve is vile and obviously so
But still. An important part of growing up as a conservative is realising that John Major is PUKEWORTHY
John Major is probably the nicest and kindest politician I have met.
If the Tories want a principled leader who understands politics and is not tarnished by association with the Borisian shambles they need look no further than Steve Baker. There, I've said it.
Steve Baker would also be the second evangelical Christian party leader after Tim Farron and our first openly Christian evangelical PM
If he wants to do religion he can take it to church, but evangelical types seem to have a need to force the rest of us to live by their beliefs. To govern, we need people who can cope with the modern world and not someone who thinks the Universe and the planet run on the basis of a 2,000 year old set of multiply translated fictions.
I don't think Tim Farron did, to be fair to him. The media found his religion so peculiar it focused on it relentlessly, but he didn't really want to talk about it - seemed very keen to separate the sacred and the profane.
No, Tim Farron found himself on the wrong end of the "belief spectrum" and voted against the Equality Act, tried to timetable the Same Sex Marriage Act so that it would fail and alienated a lot of the LDs. Years later, in a Guardian interview, he claimed that he only went along with the LDs position on LGBT issues but wished he had not done so
Oh dear. Not very liberal, was it, trying to fiddle things so that others' beliefs were banned/suppressed?
It's a bit more nuanced than that. He voted for Gay marriage in the bill's early stages, but abstained in the final vote as he wanted protection for registrars and similar who didn't want to perform gay marriages on conscience grounds. So on that issue very compatible with the definition of Liberal.
Earlier in his career he had voted against some of the same sex issues in the Equality Act of 2007, such as adoption. Several well regarded religious adoption agencies discontinued when required to comply with the act.
Why should a registrar get to refuse to marry two people of the same sex? Employees of the state should never be allowed to discriminate in performing their services. That's the state sanctioning bigotry and does not fit at all with my idea of liberalism.
Things really starts getting complex when one looks at the C of E, which is supposed to be an integral part of the state, and yet won't celebrate single-sex marriages made legal by the same state. Not a discussion I'm particularly interested in digging into, but just a comment on the sort of anomaly one gets with the concept of an Established church where the person in charge (for now) is a RC and the state's laws don't match the church's ideology.
Yes, which is why I personally strongly believe in keeping religion away from all parts of the state. Including up to the point of not recognising (future) religious ceremonies as legal marriages. Have a registrar there if you want to be legally married, but the hocus pocus crap from the priest is just between you and your God.
You still have to sign the register, even in a Church of England service like I had last year. It is the register signing that effectively makes it legal not the ceremony, whether religious or civil
But you legally have to speak some vows, as well, no? And certain religious ministers are legally empowered to administer them, while other celebrants are not. That's the bit I think should change. I think either any celebrant should be recognised, or only the state-employed registrar. Anything else is an invitation to state-sanctioned unequal access which is never what the state should do.
Well I don't, I refuse to take vows twice when I have already made vows under a religious ceremony. Especially as the religious ones have more meaning for me than any secular civil ones.
The signing of the register for religious and civil ceremonies is quite enough
In that case you shouldn't expect the state to consider you married.
I most certainly will, I signed the register which is quite enough, however I made by marriage vows in the sight of God and the holy ghost not the state
Given the CoE is the established Church, isn't that a distinction without a difference?
Extraordinary. Minister on Newsnight saying he wouldn't comment when pressed on if Johnson might try to cut and run for an election whilst in his caretaker role.
Pointless. Hes no longer Tory party leader, he wouldnt be PM even if they won and would have no part in the manifesto etc.
Which shows the spectacularly low quality of the current crop of Ministers. Your answer is as obvious as it is perfect and any Minister worth his or her salt would have replied with such a comment immediately.
That the interviewer asked such a question ... 😒
There is a weird level of hysteria still bubbling away. Whats been said cannot be unsaid, the job that has been left cannot be retaken. The deed is done. He has 2 weeks of parliamentary time left and no support to pass anything stupid, he is a figurehead only and on any misuse of his reserved powers that he can get by cabinet and his 'handlers' an immediate recall for a VONC Hes an arsehole, hes not Ernst Blofeld
Because running UKPLC is a full time job. you cannot have a hollowed-out arsehole at the helm.
Also those middle classes demonstrated a high degree of hypocrisy over party gate since most likely broke the rules themselves
No they didn't. I thought the rules were grotesque, but I followed them, because everybody else was. There simply wasn't any secret socialising going on in the suburbs.
The interesting thing about Penny Mordaunt is that she is slightly woke for a Tory but not in a way that anyone would ever get particularly annoyed or exercised about. Anti-woke Conservatives could live with her as leader.
Sure, and I am green to a 4 figure sum if Mordaunt is next PM.
I think thought that it is more likely the that the Tories choose a right wing tax cutting culture warrior who will lead the Conservatives to a disastrous GE result.
I used to be John Major's biggest defender on here but he's an idiot for saying the membership shouldn't get a vote on the new leader.
Major is a piece of work
He really really is. A duplicitous, nasty, mediocre quisling, he makes Heseltine look honourable and he makes Grieve look, OK no he doesn’t Grieve is vile and obviously so
But still. An important part of growing up as a conservative is realising that John Major is PUKEWORTHY
I’m loving this Toryboy on Toryboy action. Grease up lads.
That was the same guy worrying after my state of mind earlier
Also those middle classes demonstrated a high degree of hypocrisy over party gate since most likely broke the rules themselves
No they didn't. I thought the rules were grotesque, but I followed them, because everybody else was. There simply wasn't any secret socialising going on in the suburbs.
I used to be John Major's biggest defender on here but he's an idiot for saying the membership shouldn't get a vote on the new leader.
Major is a piece of work
He really really is. A duplicitous, nasty, mediocre quisling, he makes Heseltine look honourable and he makes Grieve look, OK no he doesn’t Grieve is vile and obviously so
But still. An important part of growing up as a conservative is realising that John Major is PUKEWORTHY
John Major is probably the nicest and kindest politician I have met.
Yes but that’s like Bernard Matthews saying Heinrich Himmler is the best German chicken farmer around
Quite. You are paraphrasing what my wife said ten minutes ago.
it’s not like he had to do much to not be a twat, and therefore stay as prime minister
Nobody really minds the affairs, the constant lying is fine, sure go ahead and father a child on your osteopath All he had to do was not allow parties when the entire country was locked down due to plague. “OK let’s not have a party” . Six words
To be fair many were hardly parties anyway. People in the red wall recognised that. Middle class liberals in the southeast went into sanctimonious virtue signalling mode however
I used to be John Major's biggest defender on here but he's an idiot for saying the membership shouldn't get a vote on the new leader.
Major is a piece of work
He really really is. A duplicitous, nasty, mediocre quisling, he makes Heseltine look honourable and he makes Grieve look, OK no he doesn’t Grieve is vile and obviously so
But still. An important part of growing up as a conservative is realising that John Major is PUKEWORTHY
He’s thrown away the elder statesman position. But then he’s been doing that since attacking Brown for visiting Afghanistan.
Quite. You are paraphrasing what my wife said ten minutes ago.
it’s not like he had to do much to not be a twat, and therefore stay as prime minister
Nobody really minds the affairs, the constant lying is fine, sure go ahead and father a child on your osteopath All he had to do was not allow parties when the entire country was locked down due to plague. “OK let’s not have a party” . Six words
To be fair many were hardly parties anyway. People in the red wall recognised that. Middle class liberals in the southeast went into sanctimonious virtue signalling mode however
Comments
No, the Tories want someone dull as ditchwater, but competent and scandal free like Wallace
Simples.
That's a rent-a-quote that says essentially nothing about the book, except that he'd been told what it was about, whilst also promoting his own foundation.
Admittedly, the foreword by Bill Gates is slightly more impressive. But 'she' got both because of her co-author Chris Lewis, who'd worked for both Elton John and Bill Gates:
https://www.bitebackpublishing.com/authors/chris-lewis
Theyve got the cover they need to proceed!
Their numbers were grossly exaggerated when he was riding high. They are in danger of being substantially under counted now he's gone.
That's all I'm saying.
Labour are not getting lots of red wall votes back over a short time frame. Penny merely needs to be on front of local gazette in photo with local mayor and MP above headline “more investment agreed” to restore todays severed link.
I believe Big G gets it “for the sudoku”.
But at end of the day, Johnson transgressed one of the unwritten rules of the constitution - you cannot lie knowingly to Parliament (and he did so repeatedly). In the long term the fact that in the end the system made sure that rule applied is far more important than the disappointed voting denizens of Mrs Miggins pie shop in Macclesfield.
Tony Blair is well to the Right of her on this, and in the middle ground.
I can sort of understand people putting up with being called Kevin cos they were christened that way. But choosing it as a username...
FYI, he's pretty much dog-shit in Seattle. After earning his merit badges at boy-scout jamborees with Epstein, Maxwell, Bill Clinton, etc. on Fantasy Island.
BTW, when was (this) PM's book published? Bill Gates's beach blanket bingo hit the fan May of 2021.
He can no longer win an election and remain PM under any circumstances
You can mock Christ, I could mock the prophet of your religion of heritage but of course some of them would then impose a Fatwa
That the interviewer asked such a question ... 😒
Nixon of course lost his first general election in 1960 unlike Boris so slightly different
Liz Truss has done this. Kemi Badenoch has done this. JK Rowling has done this. Rosie Duffield has done this. Tony Blair has done this. Sarah Champion has done this.
Penny Mordaunt will not do this, and indeed may fuel it further, and given how strongly I detest identity politics and how it's pulling us apart into an intersectional hierarchy, that's a red line for me.
You are paraphrasing what my wife said ten minutes ago.
When many talk about the need to follow the correct standards and procedures, they conveniently omit that the rules are made by the likes of Hunt and co for the benefit of....the likes of Hunt and co. Many voters realise this and liked someone who felt they didn't have to play by those rules.
Whats been said cannot be unsaid, the job that has been left cannot be retaken. The deed is done. He has 2 weeks of parliamentary time left and no support to pass anything stupid, he is a figurehead only and on any misuse of his reserved powers that he can get by cabinet and his 'handlers' an immediate recall for a VONC
Hes an arsehole, hes not Ernst Blofeld
And don't you think it's also true (at present juncture anyway) that Ben Wallace does not DIS-appeal like Johnson?
Doubt even the Caretaker himself would care argue with that proposition. Which is more to the point, at the moment.
Down the road could be different story.
But then again, not even Lord Archer would consider manufacturing something THIS crazy and contrived.
Gone by Sunday 7pm I reckon
He wouldn't ever have been Boris Johnson were he not.
This makes D Ross’s hokey cokey look like a work of genius.
He really really is. A duplicitous, nasty, mediocre quisling, he makes Heseltine look honourable and he makes Grieve look, OK no he doesn’t Grieve is vile and obviously so
But still. An important part of growing up as a conservative is realising that John Major is PUKEWORTHY
Keep smoking the crackpipe.
I would be delighted if the Tory Party collapsed into an internecine shit-fight.
A piece of anecdote. I was at a reunion at my old college, chatting away to a group of other alum, all in Tory seats, all middle class and clearly quite socially liberal when it came to most things. The one thing that got that wound up immensely was how the woke - and specifically the trans - issue was being pushed at school. It's way I don't think the Lib Dems will do well in the GE because once Davey is asked "what's a woman?", he's not going to be able to get past the issue.
Nobody really minds the affairs, the constant lying is fine, sure go ahead and father a child on your osteopath
All he had to do was not allow parties when the entire country was locked down due to plague. “OK let’s not have a party” . Six words
Theology resits for you!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/07/tom-tugendhat-have-served-now-hope-answer-call-prime-minister/
I thought the rules were grotesque, but I followed them, because everybody else was. There simply wasn't any secret socialising going on in the suburbs.
You make being a “sex crazed right wing writer” sound like a good life choice, TBH
I may have to reconsider my life choices
I think thought that it is more likely the that the Tories choose a right wing tax cutting culture warrior who will lead the Conservatives to a disastrous GE result.
He’ll tack to the woke
Sort of
OK I HAD HOMEMADE WINE WITH RATKO