As big dog Gromit quits Wallace is who Tory members want to replace him – politicalbetting.com
Comments
-
If we're doing vox pops, some very silly ones on the BBC:JosiasJessop said:Anecdote alert:
Just had a word with our window cleaner, who asked me if Boris had gone yet. He said that it was a shame, and although he lied him, as a liar he had to go. "I mean, partying and drinking whilst everyone else was locked up."
He asked me who I thought would take over. I said Raab or Wallace, then cheekily added Aaron Bell onto the list.
Karen in Scarborough says she's "tearful" after hearing of Boris Johnson's plan to resign.
"It reminds me of the Lion King with the hyenas circling," she says....
My anecdata is that the baristas at the lunchtime coffee shop were uniformly delighted. First time I've heard them express any political opinion at all.1 -
What is their legal and real life position?LostPassword said:
There was a weird reference in his speech to his police protection officers being the only people who don't leak. Makes me wonder what they know that the rest of us don't.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's been rumours for a while that he struggles with long Covid then there's the rumours his mental health isn't well because he's not shagging as much.Slackbladder said:WTF is Andrew Bridgen alluding to there? Boris being 'unwell'
Apparently it didn't dawn on him that as PM, he just couldn't slip away quietly somewhere, he'd have a battalions of police officers with him.
The lockdowns made it even more difficult, and the fact that Carrie's been permanently pregnant, means he's not got his usual amount of fun.
Oh and money worries.
If they see the PM committing a crime, are they supposed to ignore it/arrest him/report it to superiors? And what would they be expected to do in reality?0 -
Never leave.LostPassword said:
There was a weird reference in his speech to his police protection officers being the only people who don't leak. Makes me wonder what they know that the rest of us don't.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's been rumours for a while that he struggles with long Covid then there's the rumours his mental health isn't well because he's not shagging as much.Slackbladder said:WTF is Andrew Bridgen alluding to there? Boris being 'unwell'
Apparently it didn't dawn on him that as PM, he just couldn't slip away quietly somewhere, he'd have a battalions of police officers with him.
The lockdowns made it even more difficult, and the fact that Carrie's been permanently pregnant, means he's not got his usual amount of fun.
Oh and money worries.
They're there 24/70 -
Newcastle -Under-Lyme is the North?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Because he thinks the MP for Tonbridge & Malling is especially dedicated to levelling up the north?Andy_JS said:Aaron Bell speaking on ITV.
He's backing Tom Tugendhat.0 -
Definitely "Lion King", was it? She's not just been reading PB headers?Nigelb said:
If we're doing vox pops, some very silly ones on the BBC:JosiasJessop said:Anecdote alert:
Just had a word with our window cleaner, who asked me if Boris had gone yet. He said that it was a shame, and although he lied him, as a liar he had to go. "I mean, partying and drinking whilst everyone else was locked up."
He asked me who I thought would take over. I said Raab or Wallace, then cheekily added Aaron Bell onto the list.
Karen in Scarborough says she's "tearful" after hearing of Boris Johnson's plan to resign.
"It reminds me of the Lion King with the hyenas circling," she says....
My anecdata is that the baristas at the lunchtime coffee shop were uniformly delighted. First time I've heard them express any political opinion at all. 1 -
Indeed. He was/is fundamentally unsuitable for high office. A lot of us have said so for a very long time. For those that did not, I will resist the temptation to say "I told you so".turbotubbs said:
While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.
I told you so. Oh, whoops, sorry, did I say, "I told you so"? Oh shit, there it was again.0 -
Well a vote will certainly be needed to change the law.HYUFD said:
Depends what votes they allow on itkjh said:
Always a free vote so not sure how this matters in the leadership race.HYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion
And there is no chance whatsoever of any significant extra restrictions being approved. At the absolute most a reduction to 22 or 20 weeks.
Zero chance of anything more than that because there are very, very few religious nutjobs in the UK.
A fair number still pretend to be religious to be polite / not cause offence but when push comes to shove very few take it seriously - hence the opposition to Gay Marriage being completely overwhelmed.2 -
Previous owners installed Q4 2015.Selebian said:
Ours is similar, from memory. Previous owners installed in 2012 or 2013 IIRC, as part of new roof. We bought in 2015.rcs1000 said:
When did you install your system?Pulpstar said:
I'm on £153.80 / MwH or £182.95 if you include the deemed element.rcs1000 said:
No one who installs solar in the UK takes the feed in tariff anymore, because it pays only about 20% of retail electricity prices.BartholomewRoberts said:
Well in part because we're committed to do so from before they were so cheap. Investments in older renewables, were made with a commitment to pay a certain tariff for years to come. New investments haven't had that for a while in many sectors. New solar investment won't get the feed in tariffs old ones did. New wind turbines don't get the fixed tariffs old ones did. We still need to pay what we committed to in the past and will do for the duration of those contracts, but that doesn't mean new investments are getting the same deal - new investments are economic on their own terms, so why would you avoid them now?MISTY said:
The point remains.BartholomewRoberts said:
The green levies are a drop in the ocean that are about 8% of bills now and that percentage has been falling rapidly. If he had scrapped them, it would barely have been noticed.MISTY said:
You seem to be ignoring the green levies (Up to 15% of bills?) that Britons pay for renewables that we hear on here are as cheap as chips.rcs1000 said:
So, your solution to higher energy bills caused by imports of fossil fuels is for us to use more fossil fuels in the future?MISTY said:
Far more important than any of that is,,,,,,,,do they continue to embrace the hard target of net zero by 2050 at all costs?Scott_xP said:Some pretty quick to dance on Boris’ grave.
But key questions for the next Tory leader now are:
🔥 Do they stick with ripping up NI protocol
🔥 Do they carry on the Rwanda plan
🔥 Do they continue with the party’s realignment & embrace of the Red Wall / levelling up? https://twitter.com/michelbarnier/status/1545015642176233472
Do you really think people would give a t*ss about Chris effing Pincher if they weren't getting poorer by the month,, the forecasts were for them to get even poorer, and there was no prospect of a recovery?
It's certainly a unique take.
If Johnson had scrapped those subsidies, or even reduced them. he would still be PM now.
And those levies aren't all to fund renewables either. A significant chunk of that fund goes to contribute towards paying for the bills of those who would struggle to pay for them otherwise, a form of welfare in other words.
If renewables are so cheap, then why do we have to subsidise them? Isn't Lord Deben rich enough?
Do you think old contracts that are committed to shouldn't be honoured? Or new ones, without subsidies, that are economically cheaper shouldn't be signed?
Photovoltaic Retrofit 0 4 Higher 15.37 01/10/2015 31/12/2015
1 -
It's not an unreasonable view.TheScreamingEagles said:
Fair play to Nadine Dorries, she does do nuance.rcs1000 said:
Are they planning on making abortion compulsory?HYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion
A cabinet minister has said that the abortion limit in the UK should be brought down by a month but the rule that two doctors must approve the procedure should be abolished.
Nadine Dorries, the culture secretary, said the 24-week rule — the cut-off point for when the majority of women can have an abortion — was “too high”, suggesting that “20 weeks is where it should be”.
However, she insisted she was pro-choice and that she would not push for the rules to be changed.
In an interview with Times Radio due to air tomorrow, Dorries, 65, said: “Any woman who wants an abortion should just be able to have one.”
Her comments come after the Roe v Wade ruling was overturned in the United States, removing the constitutional right to the procedure. Many states in the country have since imposed restrictions on abortion.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nadine-dorries-bring-down-abortion-time-limit-vtc597dzz0 -
Nah, think he would make an excellent whelk stall manager. Cheery bluster on a sunny afternoon would be great for sales.turbotubbs said:
While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.0 -
.
Schedule 2 of the Conservative Party Constitution.rjk said:If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.
1 -
State of thisHYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion5 -
Ukraine if you want to, Big Dog's NOT for Kraining.Leon said:Guardian
“Olexander Scherba, Ukraine’s former ambassador to Austria, thanked Johnson on Twitter. “Many of my friends hated Boris Johnson for his role in Brexit. Quite frankly, I disliked him for that too. But my God, he did the right thing about Ukraine. And I’m not sure he would have been able to do it if the UK were still in the EU. Anyways, thank you, Boris!” he wrote
Zelenskiy’s office has made no secret of its fondness for Johnson, repeatedly praising him as an example to other world leaders.”2 -
It was Paterson that broke the spell. The failure on Paterson was an attempt to overturn due process to save a mate from the consequences of breaking the rules.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
Then that was repeated by lying over his own rule-breaking over Covid, and the lying over Pincher was the third strike and out.
That's a fundamental character flaw that would have done for Johnson in one way or another.1 -
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?1 -
Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.0
-
Can we get the Lib Dems to join in? Perhaps the reason we never see Ed Davey on the TV is because he's secretly Father Jack. And the SNP should be easy to arrange given their problems with sex pests...oxfordsimon said:Any reluctance on the part of Durham Police in reaching their decisions for fear of interfering in politics should be put from their minds.
Concurrent leadership elections would be such fun0 -
Well that's one vote at least.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545026016623616000
Damian Green declares for Tom Tugendhat as the “fresh start” candidate - he tells @SophyRidgeSky “you can take it that Tom is going to run”0 -
If he resigns he's also barred from standing in the leadership election. But then he didn't actually say that he was resigning, just that a new leader would be elected.rjk said:If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.
0 -
Not technically.sarissa said:
Newcastle -Under-Lyme is the North?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Because he thinks the MP for Tonbridge & Malling is especially dedicated to levelling up the north?Andy_JS said:Aaron Bell speaking on ITV.
He's backing Tom Tugendhat.0 -
House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-beens.ajb said:Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.
0 -
My anecdata is that almost every conversation I have overheard in the past 24 hours has been Boris related - uniformly hostile.Nigelb said:
If we're doing vox pops, some very silly ones on the BBC:JosiasJessop said:Anecdote alert:
Just had a word with our window cleaner, who asked me if Boris had gone yet. He said that it was a shame, and although he lied him, as a liar he had to go. "I mean, partying and drinking whilst everyone else was locked up."
He asked me who I thought would take over. I said Raab or Wallace, then cheekily added Aaron Bell onto the list.
Karen in Scarborough says she's "tearful" after hearing of Boris Johnson's plan to resign.
"It reminds me of the Lion King with the hyenas circling," she says....
My anecdata is that the baristas at the lunchtime coffee shop were uniformly delighted. First time I've heard them express any political opinion at all.
This is only partly my environment. I work in the public sector, where if you have opinions which are not unfavourable to the Conservatives you have to keep them very quiet. So bashing Boris is something of a free hit. But this has also been true in less obviously Boris-hostile environments too that I've been in.
My view is that it is partygate which did for him among the wider public.1 -
Heard a fair bit of speculation over the past couple of days, on the impact of the Boris shenanaghans/replacement on the currency/equity markets.
From what I can tell, the has been no meaningful effect on either. The £ has moved in line with the Euro & the FTSE is broadly in line with other equity markets.
Lots of stupid journalists out there.4 -
I've only seen the graphic in the article, not looked at the specific bills that were voted on, but I was quite heartened to see that most candidates seemed to have pretty similar voting patterns, Baker being the exception and he doesn't exactly make a secret of his views about abortion and the sanctity of life.kle4 said:
A shame - i liked not knowing as it didn't matter in the UKHYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion0 -
I'm so far to the north I live in the south-east.sarissa said:
Newcastle -Under-Lyme is the North?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Because he thinks the MP for Tonbridge & Malling is especially dedicated to levelling up the north?Andy_JS said:Aaron Bell speaking on ITV.
He's backing Tom Tugendhat.1 -
https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady
"For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"
He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot2 -
And it was utterly visible before he even became PM. Look at the report into the Garden Bridge fiasco, which shows the same characteristics.LostPassword said:
It was Paterson that broke the spell. The failure on Paterson was an attempt to overturn due process to save a mate from the consequences of breaking the rules.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
Then that was repeated by lying over his own rule-breaking over Covid, and the lying over Pincher was the third strike and out.
That's a fundamental character flaw that would have done for Johnson in one way or another.1 -
I would just like to say how much I've always admired our Prime Minister, and hope that - in the future - I can be the source of many lucrative consulting contracts for him.ajb said:Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.
7 -
Not a chance of winningNigelb said:Well that's one vote at least.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545026016623616000
Damian Green declares for Tom Tugendhat as the “fresh start” candidate - he tells @SophyRidgeSky “you can take it that Tom is going to run”0 -
Not sure about this sort of counterfactual.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
Without COVID, there would have been other issues, other crises. Johnson would have lied, covered-up, thrown colleagues under the bus to save himself etc. That's who Johnson has always been; the man many tried to warn Conservative MPs and members about - what we're seeing is the scorpion and the frog played out before us.
Leadership doesn't create character - it reveals it.5 -
You'd think a minister in government would be able to distinguish between the UK and GB.
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1545029203380387840
New NI Secretary doesn't know that NI is not in GB???0 -
Aha, thanks! I can't see a way to wriggle around that.Applicant said:.
Schedule 2 of the Conservative Party Constitution.rjk said:If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.
0 -
Has he got some new drugs that are better than everyone else's drugs?FrancisUrquhart said:
He has gone off the front again in a 3 man break away with 100+ miles to go. Every day so far he has been putting in massive efforts.turbotubbs said:
??????????????????FrancisUrquhart said:Wout van aert at it again today. He can't keep this up surely.
0 -
As I posted earlier, I was in hospital for a procedure this morning so missed all the fun! As I also posted I'm very glad to see Johnson leave the stage; if in fact he has done!
I cannot see why he is appointing new ministers; I realise there has to be a government but this seems ridiculous especially in view of the fact that they will get redundancy money or separation money or whatever it's called whenever they leave!
I also cannot see why Durham police are still procrastinating over Beergate; surely they must know by now!0 -
A leadership election can't happen without a vacancy, surely?LostPassword said:
If he resigns he's also barred from standing in the leadership election. But then he didn't actually say that he was resigning, just that a new leader would be elected.rjk said:If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.
0 -
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.BartholomewRoberts said:
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).1 -
Not that it matters much, I think Boris should go immediately. Bring in a caretaker, someone who won't stand for the job at the election.
Every day Boris stays on, the country is harmed.3 -
One marker for the "new" government, is whether or not Michael Gove is in it - or not.
Gove was (think this is correct) the ONLY minister that Boris Johnson fired yesterday. Clearly made a point of doing it.
So key sign of whether or not Boris thinks it is still business as usual, and that he will keep on keeping on in Big Dog still until something turns up and puts in back in the saddle - or dog cart.
Personally don't give even a damn about Michael Gove, indeed assume he's just another jackass in goverment.
However, what is MORE important right now, is making sure that Boris is on a VERY tight leash for as long as he is infesting No. 10.0 -
It is of course purely coincidental that the type of more sensible candidate Major would presumably favour is likely to do poorly at the member's ballot stage :-)Nigelb said:https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady
"For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"
He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot
1 -
In terms of confidence in Boris for the next few weeks, I'd expect Conservative MPs to be making their views known to the 1922 if they want a replacement now, and if soundings are that Boris is not welcome, the act of getting a caretaker in place would be via that internal process rather than riding on the back of a parliamentary VONC.
I suspect given staying on until successor is the standard, there will be grumblings but ultimately it will be a dog that didn't bark.
But, if not, the 22 need to manage Boris activating his crash pad plan, lining Raab or whoever up and doing the internal coordination of the process
Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks, and those who resigned have now got what they wanted. With some banging together of heads, the 22 should suggest, both to Boris/caretaker and to the resignees, that it is time to get many of the junior ministers back into post.0 -
The only people who can remove the members' stage in time to do any good are the final two (and, realistically, just the runner up in the final MP ballot).Nigelb said:https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady
"For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"
He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot0 -
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.Nigel_Foremain said:
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.BartholomewRoberts said:
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.2 -
It's much, much worse than it looks because it conflates abortion with assisted suicideGallowgate said:
State of thisHYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion
So if i contract MND and decide i want to end it, some rebarbative little wanker failed politician in fucking Epping thinks he should have a say in the matter. fuck that.
3 -
Screw that, suspend normal service, and do NOT allow BoJo to do ANYTHING because it is traditional, normal, expected.Sunil_Prasannan said:
House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-beens.ajb said:Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.
In Boris Johnson NEVER trust.2 -
Are they supposed to un-resign?Pro_Rata said:[snip!]
Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks, and those who resigned have now got what they wanted. With some banging together of heads, the 22 should suggest, both to Boris/caretaker and to the resignees, that it is time to get many of the junior ministers back into post.
0 -
It will be an interesting one, for sure. Note that, when Cameron revived the practice in 2016 (Blair and Brown hadn't done it - Blair largely due to proximity to "Cash for Honours", Brown arguably for more principled reasons) the Cabinet Office and House of Lords Appointment Commission apparently blocked several names. As you say, even more than Cameron, I can see Johnson pushing this hard.rcs1000 said:
I would just like to say how much I've always admired our Prime Minister, and hope that - in the future - I can be the source of many lucrative consulting contracts for him.ajb said:Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.
It all seems utterly indefensible as a system, rather like Presidential pardons. By all means hand a slip of paper to your successor saying "I think these fine people should be considered for an award for political services". But it's quite unbelievably open to corruption to put it in the gift of the outgoing PM (albeit with some limited checks on it).0 -
Ha!rcs1000 said:
I would just like to say how much I've always admired our Prime Minister, and hope that - in the future - I can be the source of many lucrative consulting contracts for him.ajb said:Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.
Come to think of it, is there anything stopping him appointing himself a Lord?1 -
Tom Tughenhadt seems to be getting support … effective operation?0
-
UK debt is on an "unsustainable path" unless spending is tightened and taxes are raised, the government's independent forecaster has warned.
The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) said soaring energy prices and pressures from an ageing population risked tipping the UK into a recession.
Moving away from fossil fuel vehicles to electric ones could also hit tax revenues, the OBR said.
It forecast debt levels could more than treble in 50 years' time.0 -
But his flaws aren’t THAT terrible. I know this is contra received PB opinion but I suggest he’s a rogue and a chancer and yet, in general, the public were willing to forgive him this. They don’t expect perfectionSirNorfolkPassmore said:
Not sure about this sort of counterfactual.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
Without COVID, there would have been other issues, other crises. Johnson would have lied, covered-up, thrown colleagues under the bus to save himself etc. That's who Johnson has always been; the man many tried to warn Conservative MPs and members about - what we're seeing is the scorpion and the frog played out before us.
Leadership doesn't create character - it reveals it.
But covid was so hideous and the hypocrisy so bad - locking us down as he partied - that the public turned
Without Covid Boris could maybe have bluffed his way to a second term, probably his flaws would have scuppered him in the end but he would never have gone so early
2 -
I doubt he will run but am surprised Michael Gove is not on the list.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
"Declined" rather suggests someone wanted him to do it, which appears doubtful.Applicant said:
Wiki currently has:Cookie said:So now it seems at least more likely than not that he'll go, we have to replace him, in no particular order:
Wallace, Tugendhat, Truss, Sunak, Javid, Hunt, Mordaunt, Braverman, Zahawi, Harper... I'm sure I've missed a least one or two.
But either way, there are at least five, possibly six there that I would find preferable to any of the candidates in 2019 or 2016, and another two or three that I would find preferable to most of those candidates.
And meanwhile, SKS is (to me) preferable to any of his last three predecessors, and most of the realistic candidates to replace him (Rayner excepted) are also preferable (to me). And the Lib Dems are led by a grown-up too.
There is reason to be not totally despondent for the future of politics in this country.
Declared: Braverman
Publicly expressed interest: Baker, Tugendhat, Berry
Possible: Ellwood, Harper, Hunt, Javid, McVey, Mordaunt, Patel, Raab, Sunak, Truss, Wallace, Zahawi
Declined: Hancock
If they count Hancock, they need to add Sir Norfolk Passmore, as I've "declined" to throw my hat in the ring.0 -
He misses out a third option - have a leader be chosen only by members now, to take over immediately, but only to serve the length of a full leadership contest to take place over the summer, in which they could not be a candidate.pm215 said:
It is of course purely coincidental that the type of more sensible candidate Major would presumably favour is likely to do poorly at the member's ballot stage :-)Nigelb said:https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady
"For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"
He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot0 -
It's internal election time - no one is going to be fiscally sound, Members do not like it.FrancisUrquhart said:UK debt is on an "unsustainable path" unless spending is tightened and taxes are raised, the government's independent forecaster has warned.
The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) said soaring energy prices and pressures from an ageing population risked tipping the UK into a recession.
Moving away from fossil fuel vehicles to electric ones could also hit tax revenues, the OBR said.
It forecast debt levels could more than treble in 50 years' time.0 -
Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.BartholomewRoberts said:
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.Nigel_Foremain said:
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.BartholomewRoberts said:
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.4 -
Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.0 -
They've got what they wanted - 22 to ask people to make themselves available for re-appointment and for Boris to damn well re-appoint them.Beibheirli_C said:
Are they supposed to un-resign?Pro_Rata said:[snip!]
Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks, and those who resigned have now got what they wanted. With some banging together of heads, the 22 should suggest, both to Boris/caretaker and to the resignees, that it is time to get many of the junior ministers back into post.
If that cannot be done, it will be one strong indicator that a caretaker is needed.
Procedurally, it would not be un-resigning as they are already gone, it's not like they were giving notice.0 -
I think Starmer could well be in trouble now, particularly against Mordaunt. I don't know much of Mordaunt, but she looks and sounds very impressive. A male pale and stale LoTO against an attractive intelligent female PM (the third female Conservative PM) would not be a good look for Labour.MarqueeMark said:
Nah. Was never on.Andy_JS said:Commiserations to anyone who backed Starmer as next PM after Johnson.
1 -
Wallace and Hunt both voted to reduce the abortion time limit, Baker and Hunt, Javid and Braverman voted against DIY abortions, Wallace and Braverman against abortion to birth and Baker and Hunt against abortion to birth for Downs, Wallace voted for mandatory counselling for under 15s seeking an abortion, Baker generally votedMikeL said:
Well a vote will certainly be needed to change the law.HYUFD said:
Depends what votes they allow on itkjh said:
Always a free vote so not sure how this matters in the leadership race.HYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion
And there is no chance whatsoever of any significant extra restrictions being approved. At the absolute most a reduction to 22 or 20 weeks.
Zero chance of anything more than that because there are very, very few religious nutjobs in the UK.
A fair number still pretend to be religious to be polite / not cause offence but when push comes to shove very few take it seriously - hence the opposition to Gay Marriage being completely overwhelmed.
against imposing abortion on NI.
Wallace also voted against gay marriage as did Priti Patel. Even if they may not reverse it they are also not going to impose it on churches, mosques and temples if they don't want to perform gay marriages0 -
It'll be interesting to see who Priti supports.0
-
Boris isn't Britain-Trump in this context, he's Britain-Harding. (Sometimes it pays to look for analogies slightly further back than the day before yesterday.) Of course, Harding had the good sense to die before any of his scandals were discovered.
So presumably the Tories should now look for 'Britain-Coolidge'? A laconic but affable manager who can stabilise the government and get out of everyone else's way? Wallace may fulfil that purpose.0 -
At the time of the Glorious Revolution they declared that James II had abdicated, despite him not formally doing so, and therefore there was a vacancy they were entitled to fill, and they weren't traitors to the crown, oh no.Applicant said:
A leadership election can't happen without a vacancy, surely?LostPassword said:
If he resigns he's also barred from standing in the leadership election. But then he didn't actually say that he was resigning, just that a new leader would be elected.rjk said:If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.
I expect a similar sort of fiction to smooth over the lack of a formal, or clear statement of, resignation. I do not expect to see Johnson standing in the leadership election.1 -
That is its job as a pressure group. So what? The Catholic Herald will tell us about their religion; the Flint Knappers Gazette about their honeymoons.HYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion0 -
Bad news for Jeremy Hunt. Damian Green is the sort of MP who might have supported him.Nigelb said:Well that's one vote at least.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545026016623616000
Damian Green declares for Tom Tugendhat as the “fresh start” candidate - he tells @SophyRidgeSky “you can take it that Tom is going to run”0 -
Well I am popping out of the woodwork after a very long no-show to say "Rejoice at that news!" I've been doing my best to ignore both Mr Johnson and Sir Keir.Nigelb said:
If we're doing vox pops, some very silly ones on the BBC:JosiasJessop said:Anecdote alert:
Just had a word with our window cleaner, who asked me if Boris had gone yet. He said that it was a shame, and although he lied him, as a liar he had to go. "I mean, partying and drinking whilst everyone else was locked up."
He asked me who I thought would take over. I said Raab or Wallace, then cheekily added Aaron Bell onto the list.
Karen in Scarborough says she's "tearful" after hearing of Boris Johnson's plan to resign.
"It reminds me of the Lion King with the hyenas circling," she says....
My anecdata is that the baristas at the lunchtime coffee shop were uniformly delighted. First time I've heard them express any political opinion at all.
Good afternoon everyone. I hope all your bets are successful ones.4 -
Using your logic, then he'd presumably post-Referendum have been on the side of our Nigel, Sir Keir, Grieve etc and all the other people who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted to overturn it and still try to refight old battles.JosiasJessop said:
Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.BartholomewRoberts said:
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.Nigel_Foremain said:
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.BartholomewRoberts said:
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
Accepting it and moving on would be the last thing Putin would want, by your logic.1 -
A mere Lord? Why not King ?ajb said:
Ha!rcs1000 said:
I would just like to say how much I've always admired our Prime Minister, and hope that - in the future - I can be the source of many lucrative consulting contracts for him.ajb said:Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.
Come to think of it, is there anything stopping him appointing himself a Lord?0 -
Priti.Andy_JS said:It'll be interesting to see who Priti supports.
3 -
Cue HY. Not a proper Tory...Nigelb said:https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady
"For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"
He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot1 -
"Look, I wouldn't trust Harriet Harman's Leon's political judgement."Leon said:
But his flaws aren’t THAT terrible. I know this is contra received PB opinion but I suggest he’s a rogue and a chancer and yet, in general, the public were willing to forgive him this. They don’t expect perfectionSirNorfolkPassmore said:
Not sure about this sort of counterfactual.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
Without COVID, there would have been other issues, other crises. Johnson would have lied, covered-up, thrown colleagues under the bus to save himself etc. That's who Johnson has always been; the man many tried to warn Conservative MPs and members about - what we're seeing is the scorpion and the frog played out before us.
Leadership doesn't create character - it reveals it.
But covid was so hideous and the hypocrisy so bad - locking us down as he partied - that the public turned
Without Covid Boris could maybe have bluffed his way to a second term, probably his flaws would have scuppered him in the end but he would never have gone so early0 -
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?SeaShantyIrish2 said:Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.0 -
I have had one encounter and one encounter only with the right to life nutters. I use the word not to decry their cause - it seems to me a perfectly respectable question to consider how one balances the rights of the unborn child with those of the mother, and I can see both sides of the question - but because these nutters were nutters. It was when I was on the way out of a vasectomy clinic, which they were angrily picketing, presumably on the grounds that they thought it was an abortion clinic (perhaps it was on other days?). I was feeling a little tender and not in the mood for them to be abusing my wife on behalf of a God whom I can normally be quite polite about in most circumstances despite believing to be an entirely fictional character, not least since the discomfort I had just endured, and would continue to endure for some time afterwards, was actually helping their cause. A long, detailed, biting and colourful soliloquy came to mind setting out the sheer wrongness of their cause. Sadly, the wrongness of their cause was so wrong that it was difficult to know where to start, and the long, detailed, biting and colourful soliloquy was only fully formed by the time we were halfway home; at the time we were there, I had to content myself with telling them that they were 'at the wrong building, you bunch of stupid f*ckers'.Unpopular said:
I've only seen the graphic in the article, not looked at the specific bills that were voted on, but I was quite heartened to see that most candidates seemed to have pretty similar voting patterns, Baker being the exception and he doesn't exactly make a secret of his views about abortion and the sanctity of life.kle4 said:
A shame - i liked not knowing as it didn't matter in the UKHYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion
3 -
He mis-spoke. Said Great Britain when he meant to say England.Nigelb said:You'd think a minister in government would be able to distinguish between the UK and GB.
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1545029203380387840
New NI Secretary doesn't know that NI is not in GB???1 -
"Them's the breaks"
Three words are meant to make you think two things: it wasn't his fault that he failed; and he doesn't care.
But it was, and he does, because he fears the judgement of history.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/history-will-judge-boris-a-disaster via @spectator1 -
What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?williamglenn said:
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?SeaShantyIrish2 said:Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
0 -
Do they? I'm sure the Junior Minister for Administrative Affairs is convinced that government would fall apart without them, but my suspicion is that government generally can quite happily keep on rolling along, powered by the civil service for weeks or even months without anything serious going wrong. Our system has comparatively few political appointees and pretty much everybody doing the actual work is still in post.Pro_Rata said:
Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks
0 -
I think that might well be correct. But I would not be surprised if Russian money was being used to feed *both* sides of some arguments, as long as the arguments are disruptive.BartholomewRoberts said:
Using your logic, then he'd presumably post-Referendum have been on the side of our Nigel, Sir Keir, Grieve etc and all the other people who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted to overturn it and still try to refight old battles.JosiasJessop said:
Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.BartholomewRoberts said:
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.Nigel_Foremain said:
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.BartholomewRoberts said:
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
Accepting it and moving on would be the last thing Putin would want, by your logic.4 -
The fairly obvious risk with that is that it would make Boris eligible for the full leadership contest.kle4 said:
He misses out a third option - have a leader be chosen only by members now, to take over immediately, but only to serve the length of a full leadership contest to take place over the summer, in which they could not be a candidate.pm215 said:
It is of course purely coincidental that the type of more sensible candidate Major would presumably favour is likely to do poorly at the member's ballot stage :-)Nigelb said:https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady
"For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"
He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot0 -
I just read this from Mordaunt ( I love it!): In June 2020, in response to vandalism of war memorials, Mordaunt stated: "I would like to suggest that for some found guilty of vandalising such memorials they might benefit from some time spent with our service personnel – perhaps at a battle camp. That might give them a new appreciation of just what these people go through for their sakes."2
-
Agreed, and if it weren't Brexit, it would have been anything else.JosiasJessop said:
I think that might well be correct. But I would not be surprised if Russian money was being used to feed *both* sides of some arguments, as long as the arguments are disruptive.BartholomewRoberts said:
Using your logic, then he'd presumably post-Referendum have been on the side of our Nigel, Sir Keir, Grieve etc and all the other people who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted to overturn it and still try to refight old battles.JosiasJessop said:
Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.BartholomewRoberts said:
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.Nigel_Foremain said:
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.BartholomewRoberts said:
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
Accepting it and moving on would be the last thing Putin would want, by your logic.0 -
If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.
It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...1 -
John Major says Johnson shouldn't be able to stay in office until a new leader is selected.1
-
Neave was not that powerful in the 1970s Conservative Party but he could count (and rumour had it was not against playing very dirty). I think Boris's equivalent keeper of the spreadsheets was (don't laugh) Grant Shapps. I'd watch where he lines up behind.Luckyguy1983 said:
I'm interested to see who David Davis supports. He's the arch networker in the Parliamentary Party. Also interested to see who Lord Frost supports. I think Penny will need someone powerful on her side, like Airey Neave was for Mrs. T.Andy_JS said:What are the chances of Penny Mordaunt being in the top two? Maybe pretty high if Liz Truss's campaign fails to get off the ground.
0 -
Ah, l'esprit de l'escalier.Cookie said:
I have had one encounter and one encounter only with the right to life nutters. I use the word not to decry their cause - it seems to me a perfectly respectable question to consider how one balances the rights of the unborn child with those of the mother, and I can see both sides of the question - but because these nutters were nutters. It was when I was on the way out of a vasectomy clinic, which they were angrily picketing, presumably on the grounds that they thought it was an abortion clinic (perhaps it was on other days?). I was feeling a little tender and not in the mood for them to be abusing my wife on behalf of a God whom I can normally be quite polite about in most circumstances despite believing to be an entirely fictional character, not least since the discomfort I had just endured, and would continue to endure for some time afterwards, was actually helping their cause. A long, detailed, biting and colourful soliloquy came to mind setting out the sheer wrongness of their cause. Sadly, the wrongness of their cause was so wrong that it was difficult to know where to start, and the long, detailed, biting and colourful soliloquy was only fully formed by the time we were halfway home; at the time we were there, I had to content myself with telling them that they were 'at the wrong building, you bunch of stupid f*ckers'.Unpopular said:
I've only seen the graphic in the article, not looked at the specific bills that were voted on, but I was quite heartened to see that most candidates seemed to have pretty similar voting patterns, Baker being the exception and he doesn't exactly make a secret of his views about abortion and the sanctity of life.kle4 said:
A shame - i liked not knowing as it didn't matter in the UKHYUFD said:Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.
Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion2 -
Say what?BartholomewRoberts said:Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
0 -
Maybe - but if you were employing him?noneoftheabove said:
Nah, think he would make an excellent whelk stall manager. Cheery bluster on a sunny afternoon would be great for sales.turbotubbs said:
While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.0 -
Nor geographically - West Midlands, mate.Andy_JS said:
Not technically.sarissa said:
Newcastle -Under-Lyme is the North?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Because he thinks the MP for Tonbridge & Malling is especially dedicated to levelling up the north?Andy_JS said:Aaron Bell speaking on ITV.
He's backing Tom Tugendhat.0 -
I could see Putin finding it hard to decide which of a no-deal Brexit or a second referendum he would find most entertaining. I imagine he would have been delighted by the arguments over the Northern Ireland Protocol, if he hadn't been distracted by unexpected difficulties in Ukraine.BartholomewRoberts said:
Using your logic, then he'd presumably post-Referendum have been on the side of our Nigel, Sir Keir, Grieve etc and all the other people who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted to overturn it and still try to refight old battles.JosiasJessop said:
Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.BartholomewRoberts said:
Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.Nigel_Foremain said:
Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.BartholomewRoberts said:
BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"
Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.
Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
Accepting it and moving on would be the last thing Putin would want, by your logic.0 -
What's yours? Do you think he was picking up instructions from his handler?IshmaelZ said:
What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?williamglenn said:
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?SeaShantyIrish2 said:Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.1 -
Hmmm. Slightly inappropriate. Prez C is far-famed in zoological circles for the eponymous Coolidge Effect. It even works for pond life, never mind chickens.LDLF said:Boris isn't Britain-Trump in this context, he's Britain-Harding. (Sometimes it pays to look for analogies slightly further back than the day before yesterday.) Of course, Harding had the good sense to die before any of his scandals were discovered.
So presumably the Tories should now look for 'Britain-Coolidge'? A laconic but affable manager who can stabilise the government and get out of everyone else's way? Wallace may fulfil that purpose.
'The President and Mrs. Coolidge were being shown [separately] around an experimental government farm. When [Mrs. Coolidge] came to the chicken yard she noticed that a rooster was mating very frequently. She asked the attendant how often that happened and was told, "Dozens of times each day." Mrs. Coolidge said, "Tell that to the President when he comes by." Upon being told, the President asked, "Same hen every time?" The reply was, "Oh, no, Mr. President, a different hen every time." President: "Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect
https://bmcecolevol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-7-212
0 -
I'll second that. He's obviously bothered about NATO being a huge military bloc facing Russia, but how on God's green earth does Scottish independence remotely worry him ?TOPPING said:
Say what?BartholomewRoberts said:Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
0 -
All true, but also (a) Corbyn and (b) brexit log-jam.Nigel_Foremain said:
Indeed. He was/is fundamentally unsuitable for high office. A lot of us have said so for a very long time. For those that did not, I will resist the temptation to say "I told you so".turbotubbs said:
While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.
I told you so. Oh, whoops, sorry, did I say, "I told you so"? Oh shit, there it was again.
People did note necessarily vote for Johnson.0 -
Yes, I agree. It was partygate that lost him the support of the mass of the not-massively-interested public, who were then more ready to assume the worst in subsequent scandals.Leon said:
But his flaws aren’t THAT terrible. I know this is contra received PB opinion but I suggest he’s a rogue and a chancer and yet, in general, the public were willing to forgive him this. They don’t expect perfectionSirNorfolkPassmore said:
Not sure about this sort of counterfactual.Leon said:Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris
Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off
Without COVID, there would have been other issues, other crises. Johnson would have lied, covered-up, thrown colleagues under the bus to save himself etc. That's who Johnson has always been; the man many tried to warn Conservative MPs and members about - what we're seeing is the scorpion and the frog played out before us.
Leadership doesn't create character - it reveals it.
But covid was so hideous and the hypocrisy so bad - locking us down as he partied - that the public turned
Without Covid Boris could maybe have bluffed his way to a second term, probably his flaws would have scuppered him in the end but he would never have gone so early1 -
No. Not in the way YOU mean. Not a question of taking orders, but of moving along parallel lines, mutual aid, and all that.williamglenn said:
Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?SeaShantyIrish2 said:Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.
Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
Like Hitler and Mussolini. The former took the later for his role model, but certain neither was the puppet of the other.
World is not as simplistic as you would like it to be, for ideological purposes.
Vlad the Mad, BJx2, 45, Orban, Modi, Bolasano = League of Their Own0 -
Why do you say that? I rather like him.DougSeal said:
Not a chance of winningNigelb said:Well that's one vote at least.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545026016623616000
Damian Green declares for Tom Tugendhat as the “fresh start” candidate - he tells @SophyRidgeSky “you can take it that Tom is going to run”0 -
There will be a level of juniors needed. I think a lot of the executive remain during a GE campaign, even if they are no longer MPs, so I'd expect there to be a fairly established view of the level of executive cover needed during session and in holiday season.pm215 said:
Do they? I'm sure the Junior Minister for Administrative Affairs is convinced that government would fall apart without them, but my suspicion is that government generally can quite happily keep on rolling along, powered by the civil service for weeks or even months without anything serious going wrong. Our system has comparatively few political appointees and pretty much everybody doing the actual work is still in post.Pro_Rata said:
Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks
It may not be the full bloated 170 payroll of before, but I think lack of junior cover has hit parliamentary business already.2 -
Properly mad
“Those who laugh last laugh loudest” she is apparently shouting. Such dignity in these historic moments. https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1545026053642473472/video/11 -
Brexit; increased strain on the union, with both Scotland and Northern Ireland looking a bit dicey; continued army cuts; Lebedev; continued selling off of British defence and technology companies.JosiasJessop said:If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.
It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...0 -
Allegra Stratton, Boris Johnson’s former press secretary who quit over lockdown parties, has accused the prime minister of “arrogance”.
In her first interview since her tearful resignation in December, she said Johnson would have had a “bullishness [...] to the bitter end” https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1545039101866348544/photo/10
