Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

As big dog Gromit quits Wallace is who Tory members want to replace him – politicalbetting.com

1246711

Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936

    Anecdote alert:

    Just had a word with our window cleaner, who asked me if Boris had gone yet. He said that it was a shame, and although he lied him, as a liar he had to go. "I mean, partying and drinking whilst everyone else was locked up."

    He asked me who I thought would take over. I said Raab or Wallace, then cheekily added Aaron Bell onto the list. ;)

    If we're doing vox pops, some very silly ones on the BBC:
    Karen in Scarborough says she's "tearful" after hearing of Boris Johnson's plan to resign.

    "It reminds me of the Lion King with the hyenas circling," she says....


    My anecdata is that the baristas at the lunchtime coffee shop were uniformly delighted. First time I've heard them express any political opinion at all.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,803

    WTF is Andrew Bridgen alluding to there? Boris being 'unwell'

    There's been rumours for a while that he struggles with long Covid then there's the rumours his mental health isn't well because he's not shagging as much.

    Apparently it didn't dawn on him that as PM, he just couldn't slip away quietly somewhere, he'd have a battalions of police officers with him.

    The lockdowns made it even more difficult, and the fact that Carrie's been permanently pregnant, means he's not got his usual amount of fun.

    Oh and money worries.
    There was a weird reference in his speech to his police protection officers being the only people who don't leak. Makes me wonder what they know that the rest of us don't.
    What is their legal and real life position?

    If they see the PM committing a crime, are they supposed to ignore it/arrest him/report it to superiors? And what would they be expected to do in reality?
  • WTF is Andrew Bridgen alluding to there? Boris being 'unwell'

    There's been rumours for a while that he struggles with long Covid then there's the rumours his mental health isn't well because he's not shagging as much.

    Apparently it didn't dawn on him that as PM, he just couldn't slip away quietly somewhere, he'd have a battalions of police officers with him.

    The lockdowns made it even more difficult, and the fact that Carrie's been permanently pregnant, means he's not got his usual amount of fun.

    Oh and money worries.
    There was a weird reference in his speech to his police protection officers being the only people who don't leak. Makes me wonder what they know that the rest of us don't.
    Never leave.

    They're there 24/7
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,985

    Andy_JS said:

    Aaron Bell speaking on ITV.

    He's backing Tom Tugendhat.

    Because he thinks the MP for Tonbridge & Malling is especially dedicated to levelling up the north?
    Newcastle -Under-Lyme is the North?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,677
    edited July 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Anecdote alert:

    Just had a word with our window cleaner, who asked me if Boris had gone yet. He said that it was a shame, and although he lied him, as a liar he had to go. "I mean, partying and drinking whilst everyone else was locked up."

    He asked me who I thought would take over. I said Raab or Wallace, then cheekily added Aaron Bell onto the list. ;)

    If we're doing vox pops, some very silly ones on the BBC:
    Karen in Scarborough says she's "tearful" after hearing of Boris Johnson's plan to resign.

    "It reminds me of the Lion King with the hyenas circling," she says....


    My anecdata is that the baristas at the lunchtime coffee shop were uniformly delighted. First time I've heard them express any political opinion at all.
    Definitely "Lion King", was it? She's not just been reading PB headers? :wink:
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.

    And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.
    Indeed. He was/is fundamentally unsuitable for high office. A lot of us have said so for a very long time. For those that did not, I will resist the temptation to say "I told you so".

    I told you so. Oh, whoops, sorry, did I say, "I told you so"? Oh shit, there it was again.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,702
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.

    Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion

    https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion

    Always a free vote so not sure how this matters in the leadership race.
    Depends what votes they allow on it
    Well a vote will certainly be needed to change the law.

    And there is no chance whatsoever of any significant extra restrictions being approved. At the absolute most a reduction to 22 or 20 weeks.

    Zero chance of anything more than that because there are very, very few religious nutjobs in the UK.

    A fair number still pretend to be religious to be polite / not cause offence but when push comes to shove very few take it seriously - hence the opposition to Gay Marriage being completely overwhelmed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Some pretty quick to dance on Boris’ grave.

    But key questions for the next Tory leader now are:

    🔥 Do they stick with ripping up NI protocol
    🔥 Do they carry on the Rwanda plan
    🔥 Do they continue with the party’s realignment & embrace of the Red Wall / levelling up? https://twitter.com/michelbarnier/status/1545015642176233472

    Far more important than any of that is,,,,,,,,do they continue to embrace the hard target of net zero by 2050 at all costs?

    Do you really think people would give a t*ss about Chris effing Pincher if they weren't getting poorer by the month,, the forecasts were for them to get even poorer, and there was no prospect of a recovery?

    So, your solution to higher energy bills caused by imports of fossil fuels is for us to use more fossil fuels in the future?

    It's certainly a unique take.
    You seem to be ignoring the green levies (Up to 15% of bills?) that Britons pay for renewables that we hear on here are as cheap as chips.

    If Johnson had scrapped those subsidies, or even reduced them. he would still be PM now.
    The green levies are a drop in the ocean that are about 8% of bills now and that percentage has been falling rapidly. If he had scrapped them, it would barely have been noticed.

    And those levies aren't all to fund renewables either. A significant chunk of that fund goes to contribute towards paying for the bills of those who would struggle to pay for them otherwise, a form of welfare in other words.
    The point remains.

    If renewables are so cheap, then why do we have to subsidise them? Isn't Lord Deben rich enough?
    Well in part because we're committed to do so from before they were so cheap. Investments in older renewables, were made with a commitment to pay a certain tariff for years to come. New investments haven't had that for a while in many sectors. New solar investment won't get the feed in tariffs old ones did. New wind turbines don't get the fixed tariffs old ones did. We still need to pay what we committed to in the past and will do for the duration of those contracts, but that doesn't mean new investments are getting the same deal - new investments are economic on their own terms, so why would you avoid them now?

    Do you think old contracts that are committed to shouldn't be honoured? Or new ones, without subsidies, that are economically cheaper shouldn't be signed?
    No one who installs solar in the UK takes the feed in tariff anymore, because it pays only about 20% of retail electricity prices.
    I'm on £153.80 / MwH or £182.95 if you include the deemed element.
    When did you install your system?
    Ours is similar, from memory. Previous owners installed in 2012 or 2013 IIRC, as part of new roof. We bought in 2015.
    Previous owners installed Q4 2015.

    Photovoltaic Retrofit 0 4 Higher 15.37 01/10/2015 31/12/2015
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,038

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.

    Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion

    https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion

    Are they planning on making abortion compulsory?
    Fair play to Nadine Dorries, she does do nuance.

    A cabinet minister has said that the abortion limit in the UK should be brought down by a month but the rule that two doctors must approve the procedure should be abolished.

    Nadine Dorries, the culture secretary, said the 24-week rule — the cut-off point for when the majority of women can have an abortion — was “too high”, suggesting that “20 weeks is where it should be”.

    However, she insisted she was pro-choice and that she would not push for the rules to be changed.

    In an interview with Times Radio due to air tomorrow, Dorries, 65, said: “Any woman who wants an abortion should just be able to have one.”

    Her comments come after the Roe v Wade ruling was overturned in the United States, removing the constitutional right to the procedure. Many states in the country have since imposed restrictions on abortion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nadine-dorries-bring-down-abortion-time-limit-vtc597dzz
    It's not an unreasonable view.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,803

    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.

    And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.
    Nah, think he would make an excellent whelk stall manager. Cheery bluster on a sunny afternoon would be great for sales.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .
    rjk said:

    If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.

    Schedule 2 of the Conservative Party Constitution.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    Leon said:

    Guardian

    “Olexander Scherba, Ukraine’s former ambassador to Austria, thanked Johnson on Twitter. “Many of my friends hated Boris Johnson for his role in Brexit. Quite frankly, I disliked him for that too. But my God, he did the right thing about Ukraine. And I’m not sure he would have been able to do it if the UK were still in the EU. Anyways, thank you, Boris!” he wrote

    Zelenskiy’s office has made no secret of its fondness for Johnson, repeatedly praising him as an example to other world leaders.”

    Ukraine if you want to, Big Dog's NOT for Kraining.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,278
    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    It was Paterson that broke the spell. The failure on Paterson was an attempt to overturn due process to save a mate from the consequences of breaking the rules.

    Then that was repeated by lying over his own rule-breaking over Covid, and the lying over Pincher was the third strike and out.

    That's a fundamental character flaw that would have done for Johnson in one way or another.
  • image

    BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
    President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"

    Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.

    Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?
  • ajbajb Posts: 147
    Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,476

    Any reluctance on the part of Durham Police in reaching their decisions for fear of interfering in politics should be put from their minds.

    Concurrent leadership elections would be such fun

    Can we get the Lib Dems to join in? Perhaps the reason we never see Ed Davey on the TV is because he's secretly Father Jack. And the SNP should be easy to arrange given their problems with sex pests...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    Well that's one vote at least.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545026016623616000
    Damian Green declares for Tom Tugendhat as the “fresh start” candidate - he tells @SophyRidgeSky “you can take it that Tom is going to run”
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,278
    rjk said:

    If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.

    If he resigns he's also barred from standing in the leadership election. But then he didn't actually say that he was resigning, just that a new leader would be elected.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    sarissa said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Aaron Bell speaking on ITV.

    He's backing Tom Tugendhat.

    Because he thinks the MP for Tonbridge & Malling is especially dedicated to levelling up the north?
    Newcastle -Under-Lyme is the North?
    Not technically.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    ajb said:

    Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.

    House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-beens.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    Nigelb said:

    Anecdote alert:

    Just had a word with our window cleaner, who asked me if Boris had gone yet. He said that it was a shame, and although he lied him, as a liar he had to go. "I mean, partying and drinking whilst everyone else was locked up."

    He asked me who I thought would take over. I said Raab or Wallace, then cheekily added Aaron Bell onto the list. ;)

    If we're doing vox pops, some very silly ones on the BBC:
    Karen in Scarborough says she's "tearful" after hearing of Boris Johnson's plan to resign.

    "It reminds me of the Lion King with the hyenas circling," she says....


    My anecdata is that the baristas at the lunchtime coffee shop were uniformly delighted. First time I've heard them express any political opinion at all.
    My anecdata is that almost every conversation I have overheard in the past 24 hours has been Boris related - uniformly hostile.
    This is only partly my environment. I work in the public sector, where if you have opinions which are not unfavourable to the Conservatives you have to keep them very quiet. So bashing Boris is something of a free hit. But this has also been true in less obviously Boris-hostile environments too that I've been in.

    My view is that it is partygate which did for him among the wider public.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Heard a fair bit of speculation over the past couple of days, on the impact of the Boris shenanaghans/replacement on the currency/equity markets.

    From what I can tell, the has been no meaningful effect on either. The £ has moved in line with the Euro & the FTSE is broadly in line with other equity markets.

    Lots of stupid journalists out there.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 881
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.

    Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion

    https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion

    A shame - i liked not knowing as it didn't matter in the UK
    I've only seen the graphic in the article, not looked at the specific bills that were voted on, but I was quite heartened to see that most candidates seemed to have pretty similar voting patterns, Baker being the exception and he doesn't exactly make a secret of his views about abortion and the sanctity of life.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,726
    sarissa said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Aaron Bell speaking on ITV.

    He's backing Tom Tugendhat.

    Because he thinks the MP for Tonbridge & Malling is especially dedicated to levelling up the north?
    Newcastle -Under-Lyme is the North?
    I'm so far to the north I live in the south-east.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
    Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady

    "For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"

    He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,476

    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    It was Paterson that broke the spell. The failure on Paterson was an attempt to overturn due process to save a mate from the consequences of breaking the rules.

    Then that was repeated by lying over his own rule-breaking over Covid, and the lying over Pincher was the third strike and out.

    That's a fundamental character flaw that would have done for Johnson in one way or another.
    And it was utterly visible before he even became PM. Look at the report into the Garden Bridge fiasco, which shows the same characteristics.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Nigelb said:

    Well that's one vote at least.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545026016623616000
    Damian Green declares for Tom Tugendhat as the “fresh start” candidate - he tells @SophyRidgeSky “you can take it that Tom is going to run”

    Not a chance of winning
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,936
    You'd think a minister in government would be able to distinguish between the UK and GB.

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1545029203380387840
    New NI Secretary doesn't know that NI is not in GB???
  • rjkrjk Posts: 71
    Applicant said:

    .

    rjk said:

    If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.

    Schedule 2 of the Conservative Party Constitution.
    Aha, thanks! I can't see a way to wriggle around that.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,582

    Wout van aert at it again today. He can't keep this up surely.

    ??????????????????
    He has gone off the front again in a 3 man break away with 100+ miles to go. Every day so far he has been putting in massive efforts.
    Has he got some new drugs that are better than everyone else's drugs?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,402
    As I posted earlier, I was in hospital for a procedure this morning so missed all the fun! As I also posted I'm very glad to see Johnson leave the stage; if in fact he has done!
    I cannot see why he is appointing new ministers; I realise there has to be a government but this seems ridiculous especially in view of the fact that they will get redundancy money or separation money or whatever it's called whenever they leave!

    I also cannot see why Durham police are still procrastinating over Beergate; surely they must know by now!
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    rjk said:

    If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.

    If he resigns he's also barred from standing in the leadership election. But then he didn't actually say that he was resigning, just that a new leader would be elected.
    A leadership election can't happen without a vacancy, surely?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    image

    BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
    President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"

    Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.

    Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?

    Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.

    I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,476
    Not that it matters much, I think Boris should go immediately. Bring in a caretaker, someone who won't stand for the job at the election.

    Every day Boris stays on, the country is harmed.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    One marker for the "new" government, is whether or not Michael Gove is in it - or not.

    Gove was (think this is correct) the ONLY minister that Boris Johnson fired yesterday. Clearly made a point of doing it.

    So key sign of whether or not Boris thinks it is still business as usual, and that he will keep on keeping on in Big Dog still until something turns up and puts in back in the saddle - or dog cart.

    Personally don't give even a damn about Michael Gove, indeed assume he's just another jackass in goverment.

    However, what is MORE important right now, is making sure that Boris is on a VERY tight leash for as long as he is infesting No. 10.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,123
    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
    Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady

    "For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"

    He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot

    It is of course purely coincidental that the type of more sensible candidate Major would presumably favour is likely to do poorly at the member's ballot stage :-)
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280
    In terms of confidence in Boris for the next few weeks, I'd expect Conservative MPs to be making their views known to the 1922 if they want a replacement now, and if soundings are that Boris is not welcome, the act of getting a caretaker in place would be via that internal process rather than riding on the back of a parliamentary VONC.

    I suspect given staying on until successor is the standard, there will be grumblings but ultimately it will be a dog that didn't bark.

    But, if not, the 22 need to manage Boris activating his crash pad plan, lining Raab or whoever up and doing the internal coordination of the process

    Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks, and those who resigned have now got what they wanted. With some banging together of heads, the 22 should suggest, both to Boris/caretaker and to the resignees, that it is time to get many of the junior ministers back into post.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
    Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady

    "For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"

    He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot

    The only people who can remove the members' stage in time to do any good are the final two (and, realistically, just the runner up in the final MP ballot).
  • image

    BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
    President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"

    Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.

    Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?

    Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.

    I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
    Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.

    Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.

    Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion

    https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion

    State of this
    It's much, much worse than it looks because it conflates abortion with assisted suicide

    So if i contract MND and decide i want to end it, some rebarbative little wanker failed politician in fucking Epping thinks he should have a say in the matter. fuck that.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    ajb said:

    Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.

    House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-beens.
    Screw that, suspend normal service, and do NOT allow BoJo to do ANYTHING because it is traditional, normal, expected.

    In Boris Johnson NEVER trust.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Pro_Rata said:

    [snip!]
    Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks, and those who resigned have now got what they wanted. With some banging together of heads, the 22 should suggest, both to Boris/caretaker and to the resignees, that it is time to get many of the junior ministers back into post.

    Are they supposed to un-resign?

  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,142
    edited July 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    ajb said:

    Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.

    I would just like to say how much I've always admired our Prime Minister, and hope that - in the future - I can be the source of many lucrative consulting contracts for him.
    It will be an interesting one, for sure. Note that, when Cameron revived the practice in 2016 (Blair and Brown hadn't done it - Blair largely due to proximity to "Cash for Honours", Brown arguably for more principled reasons) the Cabinet Office and House of Lords Appointment Commission apparently blocked several names. As you say, even more than Cameron, I can see Johnson pushing this hard.

    It all seems utterly indefensible as a system, rather like Presidential pardons. By all means hand a slip of paper to your successor saying "I think these fine people should be considered for an award for political services". But it's quite unbelievably open to corruption to put it in the gift of the outgoing PM (albeit with some limited checks on it).
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,454
    ajb said:

    Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.

    Arise Lord Musk of Mars
  • ajbajb Posts: 147
    rcs1000 said:

    ajb said:

    Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.

    I would just like to say how much I've always admired our Prime Minister, and hope that - in the future - I can be the source of many lucrative consulting contracts for him.
    Ha!

    Come to think of it, is there anything stopping him appointing himself a Lord?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Tom Tughenhadt seems to be getting support … effective operation?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    UK debt is on an "unsustainable path" unless spending is tightened and taxes are raised, the government's independent forecaster has warned.

    The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) said soaring energy prices and pressures from an ageing population risked tipping the UK into a recession.

    Moving away from fossil fuel vehicles to electric ones could also hit tax revenues, the OBR said.

    It forecast debt levels could more than treble in 50 years' time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    Not sure about this sort of counterfactual.

    Without COVID, there would have been other issues, other crises. Johnson would have lied, covered-up, thrown colleagues under the bus to save himself etc. That's who Johnson has always been; the man many tried to warn Conservative MPs and members about - what we're seeing is the scorpion and the frog played out before us.

    Leadership doesn't create character - it reveals it.
    But his flaws aren’t THAT terrible. I know this is contra received PB opinion but I suggest he’s a rogue and a chancer and yet, in general, the public were willing to forgive him this. They don’t expect perfection

    But covid was so hideous and the hypocrisy so bad - locking us down as he partied - that the public turned

    Without Covid Boris could maybe have bluffed his way to a second term, probably his flaws would have scuppered him in the end but he would never have gone so early
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,767

    Applicant said:

    Cookie said:

    So now it seems at least more likely than not that he'll go, we have to replace him, in no particular order:
    Wallace, Tugendhat, Truss, Sunak, Javid, Hunt, Mordaunt, Braverman, Zahawi, Harper... I'm sure I've missed a least one or two.

    But either way, there are at least five, possibly six there that I would find preferable to any of the candidates in 2019 or 2016, and another two or three that I would find preferable to most of those candidates.
    And meanwhile, SKS is (to me) preferable to any of his last three predecessors, and most of the realistic candidates to replace him (Rayner excepted) are also preferable (to me). And the Lib Dems are led by a grown-up too.
    There is reason to be not totally despondent for the future of politics in this country.

    Wiki currently has:

    Declared: Braverman
    Publicly expressed interest: Baker, Tugendhat, Berry
    Possible: Ellwood, Harper, Hunt, Javid, McVey, Mordaunt, Patel, Raab, Sunak, Truss, Wallace, Zahawi
    Declined: Hancock
    "Declined" rather suggests someone wanted him to do it, which appears doubtful.

    If they count Hancock, they need to add Sir Norfolk Passmore, as I've "declined" to throw my hat in the ring.
    I doubt he will run but am surprised Michael Gove is not on the list.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    pm215 said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
    Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady

    "For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"

    He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot

    It is of course purely coincidental that the type of more sensible candidate Major would presumably favour is likely to do poorly at the member's ballot stage :-)
    He misses out a third option - have a leader be chosen only by members now, to take over immediately, but only to serve the length of a full leadership contest to take place over the summer, in which they could not be a candidate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    UK debt is on an "unsustainable path" unless spending is tightened and taxes are raised, the government's independent forecaster has warned.

    The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) said soaring energy prices and pressures from an ageing population risked tipping the UK into a recession.

    Moving away from fossil fuel vehicles to electric ones could also hit tax revenues, the OBR said.

    It forecast debt levels could more than treble in 50 years' time.

    It's internal election time - no one is going to be fiscally sound, Members do not like it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,476

    image

    BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
    President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"

    Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.

    Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?

    Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.

    I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
    Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.

    Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
    Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.

    That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.

    Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280
    edited July 2022

    Pro_Rata said:

    [snip!]
    Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks, and those who resigned have now got what they wanted. With some banging together of heads, the 22 should suggest, both to Boris/caretaker and to the resignees, that it is time to get many of the junior ministers back into post.

    Are they supposed to un-resign?

    They've got what they wanted - 22 to ask people to make themselves available for re-appointment and for Boris to damn well re-appoint them.

    If that cannot be done, it will be one strong indicator that a caretaker is needed.

    Procedurally, it would not be un-resigning as they are already gone, it's not like they were giving notice.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    Andy_JS said:

    Commiserations to anyone who backed Starmer as next PM after Johnson.

    Nah. Was never on.
    I think Starmer could well be in trouble now, particularly against Mordaunt. I don't know much of Mordaunt, but she looks and sounds very impressive. A male pale and stale LoTO against an attractive intelligent female PM (the third female Conservative PM) would not be a good look for Labour.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,699
    edited July 2022
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.

    Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion

    https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion

    Always a free vote so not sure how this matters in the leadership race.
    Depends what votes they allow on it
    Well a vote will certainly be needed to change the law.

    And there is no chance whatsoever of any significant extra restrictions being approved. At the absolute most a reduction to 22 or 20 weeks.

    Zero chance of anything more than that because there are very, very few religious nutjobs in the UK.

    A fair number still pretend to be religious to be polite / not cause offence but when push comes to shove very few take it seriously - hence the opposition to Gay Marriage being completely overwhelmed.
    Wallace and Hunt both voted to reduce the abortion time limit, Baker and Hunt, Javid and Braverman voted against DIY abortions, Wallace and Braverman against abortion to birth and Baker and Hunt against abortion to birth for Downs, Wallace voted for mandatory counselling for under 15s seeking an abortion, Baker generally voted
    against imposing abortion on NI.

    Wallace also voted against gay marriage as did Priti Patel. Even if they may not reverse it they are also not going to impose it on churches, mosques and temples if they don't want to perform gay marriages
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    It'll be interesting to see who Priti supports.
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 160
    Boris isn't Britain-Trump in this context, he's Britain-Harding. (Sometimes it pays to look for analogies slightly further back than the day before yesterday.) Of course, Harding had the good sense to die before any of his scandals were discovered.

    So presumably the Tories should now look for 'Britain-Coolidge'? A laconic but affable manager who can stabilise the government and get out of everyone else's way? Wallace may fulfil that purpose.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,278
    Applicant said:

    rjk said:

    If Johnson were to lose a vote of no confidence, under Conservative Party rules he would be barred from the subsequent leadership election. Since he has avoided a vote of no confidence by promising to resign, is there anything that would prevent him from standing in the leadership election? His hard core of MP loyalists isn't huge but he might start out with a larger vote than some of the other contenders.

    If he resigns he's also barred from standing in the leadership election. But then he didn't actually say that he was resigning, just that a new leader would be elected.
    A leadership election can't happen without a vacancy, surely?
    At the time of the Glorious Revolution they declared that James II had abdicated, despite him not formally doing so, and therefore there was a vacancy they were entitled to fill, and they weren't traitors to the crown, oh no.

    I expect a similar sort of fiction to smooth over the lack of a formal, or clear statement of, resignation. I do not expect to see Johnson standing in the leadership election.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,767
    HYUFD said:

    Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.

    Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion

    https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion

    That is its job as a pressure group. So what? The Catholic Herald will tell us about their religion; the Flint Knappers Gazette about their honeymoons.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Nigelb said:

    Well that's one vote at least.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545026016623616000
    Damian Green declares for Tom Tugendhat as the “fresh start” candidate - he tells @SophyRidgeSky “you can take it that Tom is going to run”

    Bad news for Jeremy Hunt. Damian Green is the sort of MP who might have supported him.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,076
    Nigelb said:

    Anecdote alert:

    Just had a word with our window cleaner, who asked me if Boris had gone yet. He said that it was a shame, and although he lied him, as a liar he had to go. "I mean, partying and drinking whilst everyone else was locked up."

    He asked me who I thought would take over. I said Raab or Wallace, then cheekily added Aaron Bell onto the list. ;)

    If we're doing vox pops, some very silly ones on the BBC:
    Karen in Scarborough says she's "tearful" after hearing of Boris Johnson's plan to resign.

    "It reminds me of the Lion King with the hyenas circling," she says....


    My anecdata is that the baristas at the lunchtime coffee shop were uniformly delighted. First time I've heard them express any political opinion at all.
    Well I am popping out of the woodwork after a very long no-show to say "Rejoice at that news!" I've been doing my best to ignore both Mr Johnson and Sir Keir.

    Good afternoon everyone. I hope all your bets are successful ones.
  • image

    BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
    President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"

    Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.

    Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?

    Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.

    I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
    Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.

    Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
    Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.

    That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
    Using your logic, then he'd presumably post-Referendum have been on the side of our Nigel, Sir Keir, Grieve etc and all the other people who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted to overturn it and still try to refight old battles.

    Accepting it and moving on would be the last thing Putin would want, by your logic.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,310
    ajb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ajb said:

    Huh, I've just realised that Johnson now gets to appoint a bunch of lords in his 'Resignation Honours list'. It seems hardly an honour to be appointed by so discredited a PM. I guess they will mostly be chosen with an eye to his future income.

    I would just like to say how much I've always admired our Prime Minister, and hope that - in the future - I can be the source of many lucrative consulting contracts for him.
    Ha!

    Come to think of it, is there anything stopping him appointing himself a Lord?
    A mere Lord? Why not King ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,402
    Andy_JS said:

    It'll be interesting to see who Priti supports.

    Priti.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886
    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
    Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady

    "For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"

    He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot

    Cue HY. Not a proper Tory...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    Not sure about this sort of counterfactual.

    Without COVID, there would have been other issues, other crises. Johnson would have lied, covered-up, thrown colleagues under the bus to save himself etc. That's who Johnson has always been; the man many tried to warn Conservative MPs and members about - what we're seeing is the scorpion and the frog played out before us.

    Leadership doesn't create character - it reveals it.
    But his flaws aren’t THAT terrible. I know this is contra received PB opinion but I suggest he’s a rogue and a chancer and yet, in general, the public were willing to forgive him this. They don’t expect perfection

    But covid was so hideous and the hypocrisy so bad - locking us down as he partied - that the public turned

    Without Covid Boris could maybe have bluffed his way to a second term, probably his flaws would have scuppered him in the end but he would never have gone so early
    "Look, I wouldn't trust Harriet Harman's Leon's political judgement."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498

    Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.

    Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.

    Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    edited July 2022
    Unpopular said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.

    Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion

    https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion

    A shame - i liked not knowing as it didn't matter in the UK
    I've only seen the graphic in the article, not looked at the specific bills that were voted on, but I was quite heartened to see that most candidates seemed to have pretty similar voting patterns, Baker being the exception and he doesn't exactly make a secret of his views about abortion and the sanctity of life.
    I have had one encounter and one encounter only with the right to life nutters. I use the word not to decry their cause - it seems to me a perfectly respectable question to consider how one balances the rights of the unborn child with those of the mother, and I can see both sides of the question - but because these nutters were nutters. It was when I was on the way out of a vasectomy clinic, which they were angrily picketing, presumably on the grounds that they thought it was an abortion clinic (perhaps it was on other days?). I was feeling a little tender and not in the mood for them to be abusing my wife on behalf of a God whom I can normally be quite polite about in most circumstances despite believing to be an entirely fictional character, not least since the discomfort I had just endured, and would continue to endure for some time afterwards, was actually helping their cause. A long, detailed, biting and colourful soliloquy came to mind setting out the sheer wrongness of their cause. Sadly, the wrongness of their cause was so wrong that it was difficult to know where to start, and the long, detailed, biting and colourful soliloquy was only fully formed by the time we were halfway home; at the time we were there, I had to content myself with telling them that they were 'at the wrong building, you bunch of stupid f*ckers'.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886
    Nigelb said:

    You'd think a minister in government would be able to distinguish between the UK and GB.

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1545029203380387840
    New NI Secretary doesn't know that NI is not in GB???

    He mis-spoke. Said Great Britain when he meant to say England.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    "Them's the breaks"
    Three words are meant to make you think two things: it wasn't his fault that he failed; and he doesn't care.
    But it was, and he does, because he fears the judgement of history.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/history-will-judge-boris-a-disaster via @spectator
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.

    Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.

    Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
    What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,476

    image

    BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
    President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"

    Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.

    Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?

    Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.

    I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
    Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.

    Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
    Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.

    That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
    Using your logic, then he'd presumably post-Referendum have been on the side of our Nigel, Sir Keir, Grieve etc and all the other people who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted to overturn it and still try to refight old battles.

    Accepting it and moving on would be the last thing Putin would want, by your logic.
    I think that might well be correct. But I would not be surprised if Russian money was being used to feed *both* sides of some arguments, as long as the arguments are disruptive.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,123
    Pro_Rata said:


    Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks

    Do they? I'm sure the Junior Minister for Administrative Affairs is convinced that government would fall apart without them, but my suspicion is that government generally can quite happily keep on rolling along, powered by the civil service for weeks or even months without anything serious going wrong. Our system has comparatively few political appointees and pretty much everybody doing the actual work is still in post.

  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    kle4 said:

    pm215 said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1545032634639720448
    Sir John Major has written to Sir Graham Brady

    "For the overall wellbeing of the country, Mr Johnson should not remain in Downing Street"

    He says either Dominic Raab should become PM or Conservatives should remove the members' stage of the leadership ballot

    It is of course purely coincidental that the type of more sensible candidate Major would presumably favour is likely to do poorly at the member's ballot stage :-)
    He misses out a third option - have a leader be chosen only by members now, to take over immediately, but only to serve the length of a full leadership contest to take place over the summer, in which they could not be a candidate.
    The fairly obvious risk with that is that it would make Boris eligible for the full leadership contest.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289
    I just read this from Mordaunt ( I love it!): In June 2020, in response to vandalism of war memorials, Mordaunt stated: "I would like to suggest that for some found guilty of vandalising such memorials they might benefit from some time spent with our service personnel – perhaps at a battle camp. That might give them a new appreciation of just what these people go through for their sakes."
  • image

    BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
    President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"

    Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.

    Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?

    Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.

    I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
    Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.

    Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
    Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.

    That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
    Using your logic, then he'd presumably post-Referendum have been on the side of our Nigel, Sir Keir, Grieve etc and all the other people who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted to overturn it and still try to refight old battles.

    Accepting it and moving on would be the last thing Putin would want, by your logic.
    I think that might well be correct. But I would not be surprised if Russian money was being used to feed *both* sides of some arguments, as long as the arguments are disruptive.
    Agreed, and if it weren't Brexit, it would have been anything else.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,476
    If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.

    It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    John Major says Johnson shouldn't be able to stay in office until a new leader is selected.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,767

    Andy_JS said:

    What are the chances of Penny Mordaunt being in the top two? Maybe pretty high if Liz Truss's campaign fails to get off the ground.

    I'm interested to see who David Davis supports. He's the arch networker in the Parliamentary Party. Also interested to see who Lord Frost supports. I think Penny will need someone powerful on her side, like Airey Neave was for Mrs. T.
    Neave was not that powerful in the 1970s Conservative Party but he could count (and rumour had it was not against playing very dirty). I think Boris's equivalent keeper of the spreadsheets was (don't laugh) Grant Shapps. I'd watch where he lines up behind.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Cookie said:

    Unpopular said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Right to life already has rankings out on how pro life or pro abortion potential Tory leadership candidates are.

    Baker, Wallace and Hunt most pro life, Mordaunt, Zahawi and Truss most pro abortion

    https://righttolife.org.uk/news/leadership-candidates-abortion

    A shame - i liked not knowing as it didn't matter in the UK
    I've only seen the graphic in the article, not looked at the specific bills that were voted on, but I was quite heartened to see that most candidates seemed to have pretty similar voting patterns, Baker being the exception and he doesn't exactly make a secret of his views about abortion and the sanctity of life.
    I have had one encounter and one encounter only with the right to life nutters. I use the word not to decry their cause - it seems to me a perfectly respectable question to consider how one balances the rights of the unborn child with those of the mother, and I can see both sides of the question - but because these nutters were nutters. It was when I was on the way out of a vasectomy clinic, which they were angrily picketing, presumably on the grounds that they thought it was an abortion clinic (perhaps it was on other days?). I was feeling a little tender and not in the mood for them to be abusing my wife on behalf of a God whom I can normally be quite polite about in most circumstances despite believing to be an entirely fictional character, not least since the discomfort I had just endured, and would continue to endure for some time afterwards, was actually helping their cause. A long, detailed, biting and colourful soliloquy came to mind setting out the sheer wrongness of their cause. Sadly, the wrongness of their cause was so wrong that it was difficult to know where to start, and the long, detailed, biting and colourful soliloquy was only fully formed by the time we were halfway home; at the time we were there, I had to content myself with telling them that they were 'at the wrong building, you bunch of stupid f*ckers'.

    Ah, l'esprit de l'escalier.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842

    Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.

    Say what?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.

    And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.
    Nah, think he would make an excellent whelk stall manager. Cheery bluster on a sunny afternoon would be great for sales.
    Maybe - but if you were employing him?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,310
    Andy_JS said:

    sarissa said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Aaron Bell speaking on ITV.

    He's backing Tom Tugendhat.

    Because he thinks the MP for Tonbridge & Malling is especially dedicated to levelling up the north?
    Newcastle -Under-Lyme is the North?
    Not technically.
    Nor geographically - West Midlands, mate.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,278

    image

    BBC headline "Kremlin glee as world reacts to Johnson endgame"
    President Putin's spokesman says "he doesn't like us and we don't like him either"

    Since this is something that Putin wanted and is happy about, then presumably @Nigel_Foremain will call for Boris now to stay on afterall.

    Or is doing the right thing for the country worth doing, even if it is something that Putin wanted?

    Putin loves him. He is just trolling you. Please accept The Gullibility Award Of Moscow (Third Class). Putin is unable to award it to you in person, but I believe Jeremy Corbyn might oblige.

    I also award you third place in the PB Award for Outstanding Boris Johnson Apologist (also known as The Amorality Award by Association Cup).
    Putin loathes him, and Putin was never that bothered about Brexit. Brexit is your obsession, not Putin's.

    Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.
    Putin was very interested in Brexit, because it caused arguments within his enemy. And that's his MO: if we're arguing amongst ourselves, then we're weaker.

    That doesn't mean Brexit was wrong; just that he would have smiled when the vote went the way it did.
    Using your logic, then he'd presumably post-Referendum have been on the side of our Nigel, Sir Keir, Grieve etc and all the other people who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted to overturn it and still try to refight old battles.

    Accepting it and moving on would be the last thing Putin would want, by your logic.
    I could see Putin finding it hard to decide which of a no-deal Brexit or a second referendum he would find most entertaining. I imagine he would have been delighted by the arguments over the Northern Ireland Protocol, if he hadn't been distracted by unexpected difficulties in Ukraine.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498
    IshmaelZ said:

    Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.

    Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.

    Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
    What' your explanation for the lebedev meetings without officials?
    What's yours? Do you think he was picking up instructions from his handler?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,726
    edited July 2022
    LDLF said:

    Boris isn't Britain-Trump in this context, he's Britain-Harding. (Sometimes it pays to look for analogies slightly further back than the day before yesterday.) Of course, Harding had the good sense to die before any of his scandals were discovered.

    So presumably the Tories should now look for 'Britain-Coolidge'? A laconic but affable manager who can stabilise the government and get out of everyone else's way? Wallace may fulfil that purpose.

    Hmmm. Slightly inappropriate. Prez C is far-famed in zoological circles for the eponymous Coolidge Effect. It even works for pond life, never mind chickens.

    'The President and Mrs. Coolidge were being shown [separately] around an experimental government farm. When [Mrs. Coolidge] came to the chicken yard she noticed that a rooster was mating very frequently. She asked the attendant how often that happened and was told, "Dozens of times each day." Mrs. Coolidge said, "Tell that to the President when he comes by." Upon being told, the President asked, "Same hen every time?" The reply was, "Oh, no, Mr. President, a different hen every time." President: "Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge.'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect

    https://bmcecolevol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-7-212

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    edited July 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Putin is far more bothered about NATO, and Scottish Independence, than he ever cared about Brexit.

    Say what?
    I'll second that. He's obviously bothered about NATO being a huge military bloc facing Russia, but how on God's green earth does Scottish independence remotely worry him ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    While that's undeniably true, his essential flaw would get him in the end - he does not tell the truth, and he lacks the capacity to do detail. I think you can get away with lying to some extent, if you keep on top of the lies you have told, but not both.

    And morally - someone who lies as easily as he does should not be running a whelk stall, let alone the country.
    Indeed. He was/is fundamentally unsuitable for high office. A lot of us have said so for a very long time. For those that did not, I will resist the temptation to say "I told you so".

    I told you so. Oh, whoops, sorry, did I say, "I told you so"? Oh shit, there it was again.
    All true, but also (a) Corbyn and (b) brexit log-jam.

    People did note necessarily vote for Johnson.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,454
    Andy_JS said:

    John Major says Johnson shouldn't be able to stay in office until a new leader is selected.

    John Major should know all about the perils of Johnsons being in places they shouldn’t be.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Weirdly it was covid that brought down Boris

    Without covid no Partygate. And no Dom Cummings eye test. Everything else he could have shrugged off

    Not sure about this sort of counterfactual.

    Without COVID, there would have been other issues, other crises. Johnson would have lied, covered-up, thrown colleagues under the bus to save himself etc. That's who Johnson has always been; the man many tried to warn Conservative MPs and members about - what we're seeing is the scorpion and the frog played out before us.

    Leadership doesn't create character - it reveals it.
    But his flaws aren’t THAT terrible. I know this is contra received PB opinion but I suggest he’s a rogue and a chancer and yet, in general, the public were willing to forgive him this. They don’t expect perfection

    But covid was so hideous and the hypocrisy so bad - locking us down as he partied - that the public turned

    Without Covid Boris could maybe have bluffed his way to a second term, probably his flaws would have scuppered him in the end but he would never have gone so early
    Yes, I agree. It was partygate that lost him the support of the mass of the not-massively-interested public, who were then more ready to assume the worst in subsequent scandals.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Valdimir Putin proclaiming his hatred of Boris Johnson = Boris Johnson proclaiming his love for Barack Obama.

    Lying liars lying as per usual for usual reasons that lying liars lie.

    Are you still sticking to the idea that Johnson was a Putin stooge?
    No. Not in the way YOU mean. Not a question of taking orders, but of moving along parallel lines, mutual aid, and all that.

    Like Hitler and Mussolini. The former took the later for his role model, but certain neither was the puppet of the other.

    World is not as simplistic as you would like it to be, for ideological purposes.

    Vlad the Mad, BJx2, 45, Orban, Modi, Bolasano = League of Their Own
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Well that's one vote at least.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1545026016623616000
    Damian Green declares for Tom Tugendhat as the “fresh start” candidate - he tells @SophyRidgeSky “you can take it that Tom is going to run”

    Not a chance of winning
    Why do you say that? I rather like him.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280
    pm215 said:

    Pro_Rata said:


    Which brings us back to cabinet and juniors. Those payroll posts need to be adequately covered in the next few weeks

    Do they? I'm sure the Junior Minister for Administrative Affairs is convinced that government would fall apart without them, but my suspicion is that government generally can quite happily keep on rolling along, powered by the civil service for weeks or even months without anything serious going wrong. Our system has comparatively few political appointees and pretty much everybody doing the actual work is still in post.

    There will be a level of juniors needed. I think a lot of the executive remain during a GE campaign, even if they are no longer MPs, so I'd expect there to be a fairly established view of the level of executive cover needed during session and in holiday season.

    It may not be the full bloated 170 payroll of before, but I think lack of junior cover has hit parliamentary business already.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Properly mad

    “Those who laugh last laugh loudest” she is apparently shouting. Such dignity in these historic moments. https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1545026053642473472/video/1
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,767

    If Johnson was a Putin stooge, then Putin got a very, very poor deal out of it. If he did, then it was a failed gamble; money wasted.

    It doesn't mean he didn't try, though ...

    Brexit; increased strain on the union, with both Scotland and Northern Ireland looking a bit dicey; continued army cuts; Lebedev; continued selling off of British defence and technology companies.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Allegra Stratton, Boris Johnson’s former press secretary who quit over lockdown parties, has accused the prime minister of “arrogance”.

    In her first interview since her tearful resignation in December, she said Johnson would have had a “bullishness [...] to the bitter end”
    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1545039101866348544/photo/1
This discussion has been closed.