politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Good morning Scotland! Will it be different from the polls
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That last point: only if devomax or federation is an option (and a serious one that next time). If it is Yes or No, then it's only for the Scots to decide. As now. Trying to mix the two at the last minute has made a shambles of it.TheWatcher said:
If there's a No result, I'd like to see another nation wide referendum on splitting the union, with honest, accurate, and costed facts on the benefits of staying together or going our separate ways. Properly organised i.e. no one from Labour's 'Grass Roots' is to be involved. (They really bodged things up this time).Cyclefree said:One other point: if Project Fear succeeds (and how depressing is that) it will show us how any EU referendum will develop. No vision of a positive future or picture of the benefits of the EU just lots of hysterical wailing about how much worse off everyone will be accompanied by threats of what will be done to us if we dare say that we'd like to make decisions for ourselves.
Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together? What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
We all deserve a say.
Although otherwise I have some sympathy with your view, it was never possible this time round because of the Unionist refusal to discuss seriously the options, never mind draw up contingencies. Even the DT was pretty halfhearted in its glee about the Scottish Gmt's planning for a No result, as this was so obviously sensible by comparison.0 -
I think we have six final polls all giving it marginally to NO, but within the margin of error.SeanT said:Betfair is still convinced it is NO.
YES is out to 5.8/6
And some bookies have NO at 1/6
Absurd when you consider the polls, perhaps less absurd when you consider the unanimity of the polls
Also reports coming in of very high postal votes in very NO areas.
If we were to consider the case where YES was actually leading by 1 vote, then the probability that all six final polls would randomly fall on to the NO side is 1-in-64. [neglecting ties].
So, unless you think there is [or that the probability of this is not negligible] a systematic bias in the polls underestimating YES, or that the remaining don't knows will break disproportionately to YES in the polling booth, then it represents very good value to bet on NO.0 -
There are some big numbers on the exchanges at the moment..No is 1.2 bid for 36k and offered at 1.21 in 52k
Serious players..0 -
Read somewhere, probably Twitter, that Poundland may be renamed Groatland north of the border. Sounds bad, but much, much better than Groatstretcher.0
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Very.malcolmg said:
How dire are things at Rangers just now.TGOHF said:
Biffy Clyro obviously the pick of the current bunch - just don't mention they are Rangers fans...TheScreamingEagles said:All this talk about Scottish bands and no one has mentioned the Trashcan Sinatras.
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I thought Brown's speech was very over-rated. But maybe that's just me. People say he needed to be himself when PM - passionate rather than mumbling. To my mind though, when Brown gets 'passionate' he starts to sound like a demagogue. If you agree with Brown and thinks his opponents are Satan, you'll probably be favourable. But for the unsure? I remember one 2010 focus group done by Frank Luntz where one audience member responded to Brown talking about the economy or some such thing by saying 'he sounds like he's taking us to war'
I suspect Brown might not be a bad wartime leader. He would at least be able to rouse the population. But in 2014? Still he probably inspired the NO campaign to get out there and work till the last.0 -
Didn't he also give citizenship to some of the Gauls? Was it just the cisalpine ones? I had to write an essay on GJC at school, but the details are hazy now.TheScreamingEagles said:
We need a leader like Caesar. Conquer the frogs and sort out the rebellions at home.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyson, good to see you on.
I can see the romantic appeal of independence, and the enormous risks it would entail.
I fear Yes would lead to both sides of the border becoming poorer, not to mention the resentment and bitterness than an acrimonious separation may foster.
The Westminster morons have managed to make even No a huge upheaval, though. *sighs*
If only we had a leader like Aurelian. Admittedly, he solved most of his problems by killing tens of thousands of people, but he did re-establish a unified Roman Empire after the Gallic and Palmyrene Empires had broken away (not to mention slaughtering half the barbarians in Europe).
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Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories0 -
I don't see why. Aberdeen knows that whatever happens people will want to get that oil out of the sea somehow. That gives them a secure platform to vote whichever way take their fancy.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would say that if No can't win very handsomely in Aberdeen then they are completely screwed.Roger said:I'm always wrong but from what I've seen NO should win. Several people have come over and quietly said such things as 'we're with you' suggesting to me anyway that there's a silent majority. One or two glower but who wouldn't in this weather!
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The Fratellis could always do the music videos for Scotland.
http://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=sEXHeTcxQy40 -
could be bookiestimmo said:There are some big numbers on the exchanges at the moment..No is 1.2 bid for 36k and offered at 1.21 in 52k
Serious players..
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Southern- I wouldn't get so hard on yourself on Romney. After all Romney too thought he was going to win.SouthamObserver said:
I am lambasted for one big call - my hopeless Romney prediction. That aside I am not bad either, though like everyone else I don't get it all right. I joined PB forecasting tat Boris would beat Ken in 2008 when most thought the opposite, was on a hung parliament in 20I0, I predicted UKIP would do much better in the east of England than elsewhere before the Euros, I consistently warn anyone who will listen not to back Spurs finishing in the top 4 ...MonikerDiCanio said:
But I made one bad call loudly and frequently and my fate was sealed forever. Such is life for those of us prepared to stand above the parapet.
And Moniker is right about Roger. After some disastrous tips many years ago, he has become one of the more astute tipsters on this blog. And I will never forget OGH tipping Royale to run against Le Pen (Jen) in 2006. Like any gambler, OGH is more predisposed to talk about his winners rather than his losses.
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I like the splattered girl staggering along at the back clutching her precious curry.isam said:
The bit where he walks over the car and it moves is different class!malcolmg said:
Absolutely brilliantrcs1000 said:
For anyone not aware of the brilliance of Fat Les. I too would vote for it to be the national anthem.isam said:
Haha vindaloo would be brilliant, a classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLph6ePNkGQ
The song that this video is based on, Bittersweet symphony by the verve has a back story that really grinds my gears... Jagger and Richards get all the royalties because the backing is based on an orchestral version of"the last time"
Richard Ashcroft said it's the best song they'd written in 20 years
Another suggestion..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o-9_J_Cc2w0 -
Mr. Eagles, you're so wrong it's hard to know where to start.
Gallia Narbonensis was conquered decades before Caesar (think it was by a Metellus, though I could be wrong), and the frogs were originally Franks who were a Germanian tribe that migrated West (possibly taking over from the Gothic kingdom there...).
Being entirely serious, Aurelian is one of the most underrated generals in history. A serious kicker of arse.
from Wikipedia:
"During his reign, he defeated the Alamanni after a devastating war. He also defeated the Goths, Vandals, Juthungi, Sarmatians, and Carpi. Aurelian restored the Empire's eastern provinces after his conquest of the Palmyrene Empire in 273. The following year he conquered the Gallic Empire in the west, reuniting the Empire in its entirety."
The Gothic Claudius lasted only about as long as Caesar, but was also a fantastic leader.0 -
Cheer up malc - will come to a head before Xmas - the gravy train has run out of gravy.malcolmg said:
How dire are things at Rangers just now. How could so many vultures get on the board etc and pick the bones dry. Incredible and looks like another administration coming up just as the team start to look half decent. A paltry 15000 at Ibrox the other night.TGOHF said:
Biffy Clyro obviously the pick of the current bunch - just don't mention they are Rangers fans...TheScreamingEagles said:All this talk about Scottish bands and no one has mentioned the Trashcan Sinatras.
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I have thread next week where I compare David Cameron to Julius Caesar.Carnyx said:
Didn't he also give citizenship to some of the Gauls? Was it just the cisalpine ones? I had to write an essay on GJC at school, but the details are hazy now.TheScreamingEagles said:
We need a leader like Caesar. Conquer the frogs and sort out the rebellions at home.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyson, good to see you on.
I can see the romantic appeal of independence, and the enormous risks it would entail.
I fear Yes would lead to both sides of the border becoming poorer, not to mention the resentment and bitterness than an acrimonious separation may foster.
The Westminster morons have managed to make even No a huge upheaval, though. *sighs*
If only we had a leader like Aurelian. Admittedly, he solved most of his problems by killing tens of thousands of people, but he did re-establish a unified Roman Empire after the Gallic and Palmyrene Empires had broken away (not to mention slaughtering half the barbarians in Europe).
That will help refresh your memory.
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It's a shame we can't see the pbScots (& pbROW) subsample for the competition. Since we're always being told that people in England don't know what's going on up there, it'd be quite interesting to see which group guessed best0
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twitter.com/RetroScot/status/512303402618195968/photo/10
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typical BT as we see classy
twitter.com/CataloniaYes/status/512317628745265153/photo/10 -
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_WarsMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, you're so wrong it's hard to know where to start.
Gallia Narbonensis was conquered decades before Caesar (think it was by a Metellus, though I could be wrong), and the frogs were originally Franks who were a Germanian tribe that migrated West (possibly taking over from the Gothic kingdom there...).
Being entirely serious, Aurelian is one of the most underrated generals in history. A serious kicker of arse.
from Wikipedia:
"During his reign, he defeated the Alamanni after a devastating war. He also defeated the Goths, Vandals, Juthungi, Sarmatians, and Carpi. Aurelian restored the Empire's eastern provinces after his conquest of the Palmyrene Empire in 273. The following year he conquered the Gallic Empire in the west, reuniting the Empire in its entirety."
The Gothic Claudius lasted only about as long as Caesar, but was also a fantastic leader.0 -
Except 'Yes' weren't being honest about the future, for fear that it would frighten people away.Carnyx said:
This hits the spot (as do your other posts IMO. The No campaign has seemed to be stuck in 1948, or in some cases 1314, whereas the Yes campaign has bee about the future.Cyclefree said:One other point: if Project Fear succeeds (and how depressing is that) it will show us how any EU referendum will develop. No vision of a positive future or picture of the benefits of the EU just lots of hysterical wailing about how much worse off everyone will be accompanied by threats of what will be done to us if we dare say that we'd like to make decisions for ourselves.
Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together? What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
What was so hard about being truthful - 'Yes, things will be difficult for a few years, no shared currency, money tight, and taxes higher whilst we establish a new independent Scotland, but after that will come the good times'.
Instead it was all lies, falsehoods and nonsense from oily Salmond.
You deserve better than him.
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Exactly the point!Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
Mozza is a feckin loon. The Smiths were one of those bands that I just never really "got". Have tried, because it's almost de rigueur if you're into music, but it just aint happening.0 -
That'll be interesting!TheScreamingEagles said:
I have thread next week where I compare David Cameron to Julius Caesar.Carnyx said:
Didn't he also give citizenship to some of the Gauls? Was it just the cisalpine ones? I had to write an essay on GJC at school, but the details are hazy now.TheScreamingEagles said:
We need a leader like Caesar. Conquer the frogs and sort out the rebellions at home.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyson, good to see you on.
I can see the romantic appeal of independence, and the enormous risks it would entail.
I fear Yes would lead to both sides of the border becoming poorer, not to mention the resentment and bitterness than an acrimonious separation may foster.
The Westminster morons have managed to make even No a huge upheaval, though. *sighs*
If only we had a leader like Aurelian. Admittedly, he solved most of his problems by killing tens of thousands of people, but he did re-establish a unified Roman Empire after the Gallic and Palmyrene Empires had broken away (not to mention slaughtering half the barbarians in Europe).
That will help refresh your memory.
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sums up dire Labour
twitter.com/AdamRamsay/status/512514273554472960/photo/10 -
I have to disagree. I think that Salmond is selling a dream whereas the BT campaign tried to deal with reality. Dreams are often very unreal - that is why people like them.Cyclefree said:Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together?
The reality that BT had to sell was an unpleasant one, that if Scotland went it alone then it faces a bleak economic future with a lot of uncertainities. Every time the YES campaign was confronted with questions it did not like it airily waved them away with a smile and a promise of future sunshine. That does not address the problem and it certainly does not solve the problem.
Whatever else, BT at least tried to look at the future and answer the questions it posed rather than talking fantasy economics.
The past is the past. It is what it is unless you are Stalin or Mao...Cyclefree said:What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
A second rate politician offering a third rate reason IMO...Cyclefree said:Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
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Who's going to knife him then?TheScreamingEagles said:
I have thread next week where I compare David Cameron to Julius Caesar.Carnyx said:
Didn't he also give citizenship to some of the Gauls? Was it just the cisalpine ones? I had to write an essay on GJC at school, but the details are hazy now.TheScreamingEagles said:
We need a leader like Caesar. Conquer the frogs and sort out the rebellions at home.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyson, good to see you on.
I can see the romantic appeal of independence, and the enormous risks it would entail.
I fear Yes would lead to both sides of the border becoming poorer, not to mention the resentment and bitterness than an acrimonious separation may foster.
The Westminster morons have managed to make even No a huge upheaval, though. *sighs*
If only we had a leader like Aurelian. Admittedly, he solved most of his problems by killing tens of thousands of people, but he did re-establish a unified Roman Empire after the Gallic and Palmyrene Empires had broken away (not to mention slaughtering half the barbarians in Europe).
That will help refresh your memory.0 -
Clearly Ben never actually vacuums his carpets. Mind you he always struck me as something of a student radical with his weird lack of common sense so not really surprised about that.BenM said:I love how dim British consumers are!
Helping retail sales by buying lots of pointless high energy consuming vaccuum cleaners?
Such idiocy brings capitalism into disrepute.0 -
will be lower divisions again though , 25 points this time.TGOHF said:
Cheer up malc - will come to a head before Xmas - the gravy train has run out of gravy.malcolmg said:
How dire are things at Rangers just now. How could so many vultures get on the board etc and pick the bones dry. Incredible and looks like another administration coming up just as the team start to look half decent. A paltry 15000 at Ibrox the other night.TGOHF said:
Biffy Clyro obviously the pick of the current bunch - just don't mention they are Rangers fans...TheScreamingEagles said:All this talk about Scottish bands and no one has mentioned the Trashcan Sinatras.
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Has anyone mentioned The View yet?
"You know the Scots, there's always a fight."0 -
He's a complex creature, but isn't it mass immigration he dislikes?Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
But still, the English are sick to death of Labour and Tories, doesn't the percentage of the vote they get in GEs show that?0 -
An updated Wolfie Smith.Richard_Tyndall said:
Clearly Ben never actually vacuums his carpets. Mind you he always struck me as something of a student radical with his weird lack of common sense so not really surprised about that.BenM said:I love how dim British consumers are!
Helping retail sales by buying lots of pointless high energy consuming vaccuum cleaners?
Such idiocy brings capitalism into disrepute.0 -
you must get different versions down there than we do, have not heard him promise anything other than hard work for a better future up here.TheWatcher said:
Except 'Yes' weren't being honest about the future, for fear that it would frighten people away.Carnyx said:
This hits the spot (as do your other posts IMO. The No campaign has seemed to be stuck in 1948, or in some cases 1314, whereas the Yes campaign has bee about the future.Cyclefree said:One other point: if Project Fear succeeds (and how depressing is that) it will show us how any EU referendum will develop. No vision of a positive future or picture of the benefits of the EU just lots of hysterical wailing about how much worse off everyone will be accompanied by threats of what will be done to us if we dare say that we'd like to make decisions for ourselves.
Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together? What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
What was so hard about being truthful - 'Yes, things will be difficult for a few years, no shared currency, money tight, and taxes higher whilst we establish a new independent Scotland, but after that will come the good times'.
Instead it was all lies, falsehoods and nonsense from oily Salmond.
You deserve better than him.0 -
Very large numbers of English living up here.Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see why. Aberdeen knows that whatever happens people will want to get that oil out of the sea somehow. That gives them a secure platform to vote whichever way take their fancy.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would say that if No can't win very handsomely in Aberdeen then they are completely screwed.Roger said:I'm always wrong but from what I've seen NO should win. Several people have come over and quietly said such things as 'we're with you' suggesting to me anyway that there's a silent majority. One or two glower but who wouldn't in this weather!
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I wasn't going to come back on here again today, but is anyone else going through a Kuebler-Ross five stages of bereavement over their country?
Starting with:
1. Denial No will win easily
2. Anger. The lies of Yes Scotland
3. Bargaining. Devo-max.
4. Depression. It's going to be grim.
5. Acceptance. Whatever it is, it's done. Let's get on with it.
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Yes and making lots of money, and prefer "I'm all right Jack" to building a better country.Richard_Tyndall said:
Very large numbers of English living up here.Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see why. Aberdeen knows that whatever happens people will want to get that oil out of the sea somehow. That gives them a secure platform to vote whichever way take their fancy.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would say that if No can't win very handsomely in Aberdeen then they are completely screwed.Roger said:I'm always wrong but from what I've seen NO should win. Several people have come over and quietly said such things as 'we're with you' suggesting to me anyway that there's a silent majority. One or two glower but who wouldn't in this weather!
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No, Labour and Tories are the two most popular parties in England.isam said:
He's a complex creature, but isn't it mass immigration he dislikes?Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
But still, the English are sick to death of Labour and Tories, doesn't the percentage of the vote they get in GEs show that?
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I agree that it was done as a shambles at the last minute, but I completely reject the idea that it's "only" for the Scots to decide. If you're within our state, then the arrangements have to be agreed by all participants.Carnyx said:
That last point: only if devomax or federation is an option (and a serious one that next time). If it is Yes or No, then it's only for the Scots to decide. As now. Trying to mix the two at the last minute has made a shambles of it.TheWatcher said:
If there's a No result, I'd like to see another nation wide referendum on splitting the union, with honest, accurate, and costed facts on the benefits of staying together or going our separate ways. Properly organised i.e. no one from Labour's 'Grass Roots' is to be involved. (They really bodged things up this time).Cyclefree said:One other point: if Project Fear succeeds (and how depressing is that) it will show us how any EU referendum will develop. No vision of a positive future or picture of the benefits of the EU just lots of hysterical wailing about how much worse off everyone will be accompanied by threats of what will be done to us if we dare say that we'd like to make decisions for ourselves.
Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together? What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
We all deserve a say.
Although otherwise I have some sympathy with your view, it was never possible this time round because of the Unionist refusal to discuss seriously the options, never mind draw up contingencies. Even the DT was pretty halfhearted in its glee about the Scottish Gmt's planning for a No result, as this was so obviously sensible by comparison.0 -
You will not need to worry about that tomorrow, you can start talking amongst yourselves.Socrates said:
I agree that it was done as a shambles at the last minute, but I completely reject the idea that it's "only" for the Scots to decide. If you're within our state, then the arrangements have to be agreed by all participants.Carnyx said:
That last point: only if devomax or federation is an option (and a serious one that next time). If it is Yes or No, then it's only for the Scots to decide. As now. Trying to mix the two at the last minute has made a shambles of it.TheWatcher said:
If there's a No result, I'd like to see another nation wide referendum on splitting the union, with honest, accurate, and costed facts on the benefits of staying together or going our separate ways. Properly organised i.e. no one from Labour's 'Grass Roots' is to be involved. (They really bodged things up this time).Cyclefree said:One other point: if Project Fear succeeds (and how depressing is that) it will show us how any EU referendum will develop. No vision of a positive future or picture of the benefits of the EU just lots of hysterical wailing about how much worse off everyone will be accompanied by threats of what will be done to us if we dare say that we'd like to make decisions for ourselves.
Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together? What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
We all deserve a say.
Although otherwise I have some sympathy with your view, it was never possible this time round because of the Unionist refusal to discuss seriously the options, never mind draw up contingencies. Even the DT was pretty halfhearted in its glee about the Scottish Gmt's planning for a No result, as this was so obviously sensible by comparison.0 -
That doesn't make the No logic, of using the past as a justification, any better.TheWatcher said:
Except 'Yes' weren't being honest about the future, for fear that it would frighten people away.Carnyx said:
This hits the spot (as do your other posts IMO. The No campaign has seemed to be stuck in 1948, or in some cases 1314, whereas the Yes campaign has bee about the future.Cyclefree said:One other point: if Project Fear succeeds (and how depressing is that) it will show us how any EU referendum will develop. No vision of a positive future or picture of the benefits of the EU just lots of hysterical wailing about how much worse off everyone will be accompanied by threats of what will be done to us if we dare say that we'd like to make decisions for ourselves.
Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together? What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
What was so hard about being truthful - 'Yes, things will be difficult for a few years, no shared currency, money tight, and taxes higher whilst we establish a new independent Scotland, but after that will come the good times'.
Instead it was all lies, falsehoods and nonsense from oily Salmond.
You deserve better than him.
And I well remember Mr Salmond giving a speech in which he pointed out that the future wasn't going to be one in which not only water but whisky would be piped to every house.
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They should have made this a bit more exciting by stringing it out and having rounds, like GBBO or xfactor. They could have a third "don't know" option on the ballot paper and carry on until one side has a bigger lead than the don't knows, or to a climax of a fifth round without that option.0
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It wasn't making the call that got you your reputation. It was doing it with such certainty while not paying any heed to those of us that knew America much better than you did, having lived and worked there.SouthamObserver said:
I am lambasted for one big call - my hopeless Romney prediction. That aside I am not bad either, though like everyone else I don't get it all right. I joined PB forecasting tat Boris would beat Ken in 2008 when most thought the opposite, was on a hung parliament in 20I0, I predicted UKIP would do much better in the east of England than elsewhere before the Euros, I consistently warn anyone who will listen not to back Spurs finishing in the top 4 ...MonikerDiCanio said:
But I made one bad call loudly and frequently and my fate was sealed forever. Such is life for those of us prepared to stand above the parapet.0 -
We are already in the lower divisions - 25 points wont send us down. The clubs in that division will be made up - another bumper season of revenue.malcolmg said:
will be lower divisions again though , 25 points this time.TGOHF said:
Cheer up malc - will come to a head before Xmas - the gravy train has run out of gravy.malcolmg said:
How dire are things at Rangers just now. How could so many vultures get on the board etc and pick the bones dry. Incredible and looks like another administration coming up just as the team start to look half decent. A paltry 15000 at Ibrox the other night.TGOHF said:
Biffy Clyro obviously the pick of the current bunch - just don't mention they are Rangers fans...TheScreamingEagles said:All this talk about Scottish bands and no one has mentioned the Trashcan Sinatras.
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I was never 1, remain 2 and 4, think 3 came far too late and am moving to 5. I would throw in a 6 - I am pretty jealous of the Scots as they are getting a truly meaningful vote today; one that I will never get.FF42 said:I wasn't going to come back on here again today, but is anyone else going through a Kuebler-Ross five stages of bereavement over their country?
Starting with:
1. Denial No will win easily
2. Anger. The lies of Yes Scotland
3. Bargaining. Devo-max.
4. Depression. It's going to be grim.
5. Acceptance. Whatever it is, it's done. Let's get on with it.
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The only way any pollster could have got to a lot of the people voting at this polling station would have been to have visited the orthopaedic ward at Aberdeen infirmary. I've never seen so many crutches and wheelchairs. They're a determined lot these elderly Aberdonians......0
-
Beverley: I can understand that the BT campaign wanted to point out the flaws in the SNP's statements but that's all they seemed to do and it seemed to me - and I accept that here in London I have not been paying that much attention so I may well be wrong - that it too often descended into a "you can't do that" story. It seemed entirely negative. I got a strong sense of why we were Better Together in the past. I got no sense of why we are Better Together for the future, mine, my children and my grand-children.Beverley_C said:
I have to disagree. I think that Salmond is selling a dream whereas the BT campaign tried to deal with reality. Dreams are often very unreal - that is why people like them.Cyclefree said:Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together?
The reality that BT had to sell was an unpleasant one, that if Scotland went it alone then it faces a bleak economic future with a lot of uncertainities. Every time the YES campaign was confronted with questions it did not like it airily waved them away with a smile and a promise of future sunshine. That does not address the problem and it certainly does not solve the problem.
Whatever else, BT at least tried to look at the future and answer the questions it posed rather than talking fantasy economics.
The past is the past. It is what it is unless you are Stalin or Mao...Cyclefree said:What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
A second rate politician offering a third rate reason IMO...Cyclefree said:Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
Forget the Scots for a moment. Why is it good for England and Wales and Northern Ireland for Scotland to be in the Union?0 -
Hmmm they could be more than 25 points above bottom team, good for the 1st division but dire for Rangers. Still a disaster of epic proportions for them.TGOHF said:
We are already in the lower divisions - 25 points wont send us down. The clubs in that division will be made up - another bumper season of revenue.malcolmg said:
will be lower divisions again though , 25 points this time.TGOHF said:
Cheer up malc - will come to a head before Xmas - the gravy train has run out of gravy.malcolmg said:
How dire are things at Rangers just now. How could so many vultures get on the board etc and pick the bones dry. Incredible and looks like another administration coming up just as the team start to look half decent. A paltry 15000 at Ibrox the other night.TGOHF said:
Biffy Clyro obviously the pick of the current bunch - just don't mention they are Rangers fans...TheScreamingEagles said:All this talk about Scottish bands and no one has mentioned the Trashcan Sinatras.
0 -
Now this is a serious question, please. It is a well established principle of international law that if there is a referendum for independence from a larger polity or group thereof, only the territory in question has the vote for this. How can Scottish indyref differ from this?Socrates said:
I agree that it was done as a shambles at the last minute, but I completely reject the idea that it's "only" for the Scots to decide. If you're within our state, then the arrangements have to be agreed by all participants.Carnyx said:
That last point: only if devomax or federation is an option (and a serious one that next time). If it is Yes or No, then it's only for the Scots to decide. As now. Trying to mix the two at the last minute has made a shambles of it.TheWatcher said:
If there's a No result, I'd like to see another nation wide referendum on splitting the union, with honest, accurate, and costed facts on the benefits of staying together or going our separate ways. Properly organised i.e. no one from Labour's 'Grass Roots' is to be involved. (They really bodged things up this time).Cyclefree said:One other point: if Project Fear succeeds (and how depressing is that) it will show us how any EU referendum will develop. No vision of a positive future or picture of the benefits of the EU just lots of hysterical wailing about how much worse off everyone will be accompanied by threats of what will be done to us if we dare say that we'd like to make decisions for ourselves.
Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together? What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
We all deserve a say.
Although otherwise I have some sympathy with your view, it was never possible this time round because of the Unionist refusal to discuss seriously the options, never mind draw up contingencies. Even the DT was pretty halfhearted in its glee about the Scottish Gmt's planning for a No result, as this was so obviously sensible by comparison.
(The devomax/federal option is quite different and on that I absolutely agree that it has to be cleared by either the voters of EWNI or their elected representatives.)
0 -
Vastly more popular than all the other parties put together!Neil said:
No, Labour and Tories are the two most popular parties in England.isam said:
He's a complex creature, but isn't it mass immigration he dislikes?Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
But still, the English are sick to death of Labour and Tories, doesn't the percentage of the vote they get in GEs show that?
People sometimes forget this with all this UKIP stuff. Even amongst the working class, who are supposedly in open revolt (mainly against bluddy immigrunts), Labour and the Tories are still far more popular than any other party.
Another thing that gets lost is the rise of the Greens. Sure they haven't made quite the same inroads as UKIP, but still, no hysterical "people are fed up with the elite" over-excitement about the Green surge from the rightwing Establishment media.0 -
The odd thing is that in the run up to the ban, one well known uk selling company was selling (in £) some very powerful ones >2kW with a significant discount, as you would expect when it is days away from being banned.state_go_away said:
Vacuum cleaners have gone political!! They are part of the Class War now. Strange timesBenM said:I love how dim British consumers are!
Helping retail sales by buying lots of pointless high energy consuming vaccuum cleaners?
Such idiocy brings capitalism into disrepute.
Go to their website now and it has not been withdrawn, is still on sale, and has gone back to full price. So it looks like they have just stuck two fingers up to the EU.
I notice another company has bought one out with a huge head, which looks a little absurd. However reading the detail of the EU vacuum cleaner directive, commercial vacuum cleaners with a head >50cm wide are deemed to be industrial vacuum cleaners and therefore exempt from the directive and can still be as powerful as they like. The directive dosen't say that the head cant be detachable and replaceable with other smaller heads in the box...... You cannot buck the market.0 -
duplicate post0
-
Sod it
Just backed Yes at 5.9.
There's no way it should be that price, given the polling.
When the early returns come in, and show it is close, that price will tumble0 -
and you can hold a wake for the SNPmalcolmg said:
You will not need to worry about that tomorrow, you can start talking amongst yourselves.Socrates said:
I agree that it was done as a shambles at the last minute, but I completely reject the idea that it's "only" for the Scots to decide. If you're within our state, then the arrangements have to be agreed by all participants.Carnyx said:
That last point: only if devomax or federation is an option (and a serious one that next time). If it is Yes or No, then it's only for the Scots to decide. As now. Trying to mix the two at the last minute has made a shambles of it.TheWatcher said:
If there's a No result, I'd like to see another nation wide referendum on splitting the union, with honest, accurate, and costed facts on the benefits of staying together or going our separate ways. Properly organised i.e. no one from Labour's 'Grass Roots' is to be involved. (They really bodged things up this time).Cyclefree said:One other point: if Project Fear succeeds (and how depressing is that) it will show us how any EU referendum will develop. No vision of a positive future or picture of the benefits of the EU just lots of hysterical wailing about how much worse off everyone will be accompanied by threats of what will be done to us if we dare say that we'd like to make decisions for ourselves.
Whatever Salmond's faults the BT campaign has been little more that threats, patronising comments that people can't cope on their own and undignified pleading. Why are we Better Together? What does it mean for the future (rather than saying that the Scots shouldn't throw away the memory of what they achieved as part of an Imperial UK - as if becoming independent would do that)? I have to say that from a London perspective I have not heard any very clear or convincing answers to those questions.
Even Brown's speech was harking back to the past - as if the only reason for staying in the UK was because Scotland was in the UK when the NHS and the welfare state were created. I mean, really, is that it?
We all deserve a say.
Although otherwise I have some sympathy with your view, it was never possible this time round because of the Unionist refusal to discuss seriously the options, never mind draw up contingencies. Even the DT was pretty halfhearted in its glee about the Scottish Gmt's planning for a No result, as this was so obviously sensible by comparison.0 -
They are yes, but they are getting less and less popular. Look at the vote percentages they getNeil said:
No, Labour and Tories are the two most popular parties in England.isam said:
He's a complex creature, but isn't it mass immigration he dislikes?Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
But still, the English are sick to death of Labour and Tories, doesn't the percentage of the vote they get in GEs show that?0 -
Not quite the issue I think. More the fact that the vast majority of them do not see themselves staying up here in the long term. Almost everyone I work with up here talks of returning to England once their work here is finished. As such I think there are genuine (if mistaken) concerns about house price collapse and increased difficulty in repatriating if Scotland is a separate country.malcolmg said:
Yes and making lots of money, and prefer "I'm all right Jack" to building a better country.Richard_Tyndall said:
Very large numbers of English living up here.Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see why. Aberdeen knows that whatever happens people will want to get that oil out of the sea somehow. That gives them a secure platform to vote whichever way take their fancy.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would say that if No can't win very handsomely in Aberdeen then they are completely screwed.Roger said:I'm always wrong but from what I've seen NO should win. Several people have come over and quietly said such things as 'we're with you' suggesting to me anyway that there's a silent majority. One or two glower but who wouldn't in this weather!
Of course for me it is not an issue since I do not live up here and my work up here is only intermittent and not exclusive so I have the luxury of being able to take a more philosophical and detached view.
I honestly believe an independent Scotland would be a success and hope for a Yes for the sake of the Scots. But I do understand that those who would be made expatriates might be feeling more concern.0 -
I dont think that supports your case. You might be sick to death of them but you, like me, support quite a niche party and post on the internet about politics so we're very unrepresentative of the public as a whole.isam said:
They are yes, but they are getting less and less popular.Neil said:
No, Labour and Tories are the two most popular parties in England.isam said:
He's a complex creature, but isn't it mass immigration he dislikes?Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
But still, the English are sick to death of Labour and Tories, doesn't the percentage of the vote they get in GEs show that?0 -
You might well end up staying in that division with or without a penalty.TGOHF said:
We are already in the lower divisions - 25 points wont send us down. The clubs in that division will be made up - another bumper season of revenue.malcolmg said:
will be lower divisions again though , 25 points this time.TGOHF said:
Cheer up malc - will come to a head before Xmas - the gravy train has run out of gravy.malcolmg said:
How dire are things at Rangers just now. How could so many vultures get on the board etc and pick the bones dry. Incredible and looks like another administration coming up just as the team start to look half decent. A paltry 15000 at Ibrox the other night.TGOHF said:
Biffy Clyro obviously the pick of the current bunch - just don't mention they are Rangers fans...TheScreamingEagles said:All this talk about Scottish bands and no one has mentioned the Trashcan Sinatras.
0 -
The Green surge is from the far left and that suits the lefty elite right down to the ground. So sshhh! Not a word.Hugh said:
Vastly more popular than all the other parties put together!Neil said:
No, Labour and Tories are the two most popular parties in England.isam said:
He's a complex creature, but isn't it mass immigration he dislikes?Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
But still, the English are sick to death of Labour and Tories, doesn't the percentage of the vote they get in GEs show that?
People sometimes forget this with all this UKIP stuff. Even amongst the working class, who are supposedly in open revolt (mainly against bluddy immigrunts), Labour and the Tories are still far more popular than any other party.
Another thing that gets lost is the rise of the Greens. Sure they haven't made quite the same inroads as UKIP, but still, no hysterical "people are fed up with the elite" over-excitement about the Green surge from the rightwing Establishment media.0 -
That is a result of the exact wording of the ban. It is on importing or manufacturing any further higher power models. But it does not prevent the continued sale of existing stock.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
The odd thing is that in the run up to the ban, one well known uk selling company was selling (in £) some very powerful ones >2kW with a significant discount, as you would expect when it is days away from being banned.state_go_away said:
Vacuum cleaners have gone political!! They are part of the Class War now. Strange timesBenM said:I love how dim British consumers are!
Helping retail sales by buying lots of pointless high energy consuming vaccuum cleaners?
Such idiocy brings capitalism into disrepute.
Go to their website now and it has not been withdrawn, is still on sale, and has gone back to full price. So it looks like they have just stuck two fingers up to the EU.0 -
If anyone wants to know more about depressive illness and what is now referred to as bipolar illness Elisabeth Kübler-Ross has been the starting point of understanding.She is very special as she is a sufferer and a healer,a sufferer/healer,a physician and a patient.One in 4 of us is likely to go through this kind of thing.I was very sad to learn of the death yesterday of one of those people with whom the relationship developed is special.He is the only one of the 4 who jumped off a local car park and bounced,broken and bruised.This is a timely reminder mental illness kills people.In his hypomanic state he was a Brighton bus driver but got the sack for driving with a joint in his mouth-he said it helped him deal with the stress of driving and made him a better driver.Cannabis needs great care in bipolar people.The poor bastard then ended up in my care.I learnt more about mood disorders from this man than any book.FF42 said:I wasn't going to come back on here again today, but is anyone else going through a Kuebler-Ross five stages of bereavement over their country?
Starting with:
1. Denial No will win easily
2. Anger. The lies of Yes Scotland
3. Bargaining. Devo-max.
4. Depression. It's going to be grim.
5. Acceptance. Whatever it is, it's done. Let's get on with it.
Ed is right.It is relational.
0 -
Timeline for the election results announcement. All begins in earnest at 02:00. pic.twitter.com/oq9xLR3aof
— Agent P (@AgentP22) September 18, 2014
Does anyone know if there are any queues at the voting stations or is the expected heavy turnout another myth to get exploded tonight?0 -
You support a boutique party, terribly interesting and brainy.Neil said:
I dont think that supports your case. You might be sick to death of them but you, like me, support quite a niche party and post on the internet about politics so we're very unrepresentative of the public as a whole.isam said:
They are yes, but they are getting less and less popular.Neil said:
No, Labour and Tories are the two most popular parties in England.isam said:
He's a complex creature, but isn't it mass immigration he dislikes?Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
But still, the English are sick to death of Labour and Tories, doesn't the percentage of the vote they get in GEs show that?
0 -
It is an utterly bizarre ban.Richard_Tyndall said:
That is a result of the exact wording of the ban. It is on importing or manufacturing any further higher power models. But it does not prevent the continued sale of existing stock.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
The odd thing is that in the run up to the ban, one well known uk selling company was selling (in £) some very powerful ones >2kW with a significant discount, as you would expect when it is days away from being banned.state_go_away said:
Vacuum cleaners have gone political!! They are part of the Class War now. Strange timesBenM said:I love how dim British consumers are!
Helping retail sales by buying lots of pointless high energy consuming vaccuum cleaners?
Such idiocy brings capitalism into disrepute.
Go to their website now and it has not been withdrawn, is still on sale, and has gone back to full price. So it looks like they have just stuck two fingers up to the EU.
Vacuum cleaners are not in use 24/7 in every home. Their contribution to energy consumption is not that great when you look at all the other things that are in use in a domestic setting. What is likely to happen is that people will have to run their new lower power machines for longer - and thus still use about the same amount of energy as before to achieve the same result.
It is policies like this that make people wonder about the EU and their priorities.0 -
Maybe...Neil said:
I dont think that supports your case. You might be sick to death of them but you, like me, support quite a niche party and post on the internet about politics so we're very unrepresentative of the public as a whole.isam said:
They are yes, but they are getting less and less popular.Neil said:
No, Labour and Tories are the two most popular parties in England.isam said:
He's a complex creature, but isn't it mass immigration he dislikes?Neil said:
I think I made the same comment last time those lyrics were posted - ah yes, the immigrant son of immigrants who doesnt like immigration.isam said:Morrisseys dream has come true
I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
But still, the English are sick to death of Labour and Tories, doesn't the percentage of the vote they get in GEs show that?
65% of those who bothered to vote voted Labour or Tory in 2010
Turnout was 65% also
So that's 42% of the country. Has it ever been less?
In the 70s and 80s it was over 50 or 60%0 -
Richard, understand that but as I said they are looking after themselves.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not quite the issue I think. More the fact that the vast majority of them do not see themselves staying up here in the long term. Almost everyone I work with up here talks of returning to England once their work here is finished. As such I think there are genuine (if mistaken) concerns about house price collapse and increased difficulty in repatriating if Scotland is a separate country.malcolmg said:
Yes and making lots of money, and prefer "I'm all right Jack" to building a better country.Richard_Tyndall said:
Very large numbers of English living up here.Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see why. Aberdeen knows that whatever happens people will want to get that oil out of the sea somehow. That gives them a secure platform to vote whichever way take their fancy.Richard_Tyndall said:
I would say that if No can't win very handsomely in Aberdeen then they are completely screwed.Roger said:I'm always wrong but from what I've seen NO should win. Several people have come over and quietly said such things as 'we're with you' suggesting to me anyway that there's a silent majority. One or two glower but who wouldn't in this weather!
Of course for me it is not an issue since I do not live up here and my work up here is only intermittent and not exclusive so I have the luxury of being able to take a more philosophical and detached view.
I honestly believe an independent Scotland would be a success and hope for a Yes for the sake of the Scots. But I do understand that those who would be made expatriates might be feeling more concern.0 -
South Yorkshire Police Commissioner Election set for October the 30th.
Yay, I'm eligible to vote in it.0 -
Mr. Simon, quite, the vacuum issue shows just how weird and meddling the eurocratic eunuchs are.0
-
It is good for everyone because:Cyclefree said:
Forget the Scots for a moment. Why is it good for England and Wales and Northern Ireland for Scotland to be in the Union?
1) Historically, it is a proven winning combination. Both countries have done better together than they did apart. Beforehand England was insular and Scotland was poor. Why go back to that?
2) The fallout will impact everyone negatively for years to come
3) It will spilt families and friends. Why do that?
4) Scots have made many positive contributions to the rest of the UK. Hopefully the younger, brighter scots will emigrate en masse like Irish youth do and hopefully we will still benefit from them.
0 -
It was the fact I spend so much time in the US - and have done for the last 20 years - that made me think Romney would win. So many of the lifelong Democrats I knew were so disillusioned with Obama that I thought if they could feel that way, what about everyone else. What I did not factor in, of course, was that the people I know and work with are not representative.Socrates said:
It wasn't making the call that got you your reputation. It was doing it with such certainty while not paying any heed to those of us that knew America much better than you did, having lived and worked there.SouthamObserver said:
I am lambasted for one big call - my hopeless Romney prediction. That aside I am not bad either, though like everyone else I don't get it all right. I joined PB forecasting tat Boris would beat Ken in 2008 when most thought the opposite, was on a hung parliament in 20I0, I predicted UKIP would do much better in the east of England than elsewhere before the Euros, I consistently warn anyone who will listen not to back Spurs finishing in the top 4 ...MonikerDiCanio said:
But I made one bad call loudly and frequently and my fate was sealed forever. Such is life for those of us prepared to stand above the parapet.
0 -
LOL
twitter.com/Magwa_1888/status/512534440523100160/photo/10 -
twitter.com/hiitsdarrennnn/status/512541663433347072
Winning!0 -
You so will dance about with the elite #SouthamObserver. ;-)SouthamObserver said:
It was the fact I spend so much time in the US - and have done for the last 20 years - that made me think Romney would win. So many of the lifelong Democrats I knew were so disillusioned with Obama that I thought if they could feel that way, what about everyone else. What I did not factor in, of course, was that the people I know and work with are not representative.Socrates said:
It wasn't making the call that got you your reputation. It was doing it with such certainty while not paying any heed to those of us that knew America much better than you did, having lived and worked there.SouthamObserver said:
I am lambasted for one big call - my hopeless Romney prediction. That aside I am not bad either, though like everyone else I don't get it all right. I joined PB forecasting tat Boris would beat Ken in 2008 when most thought the opposite, was on a hung parliament in 20I0, I predicted UKIP would do much better in the east of England than elsewhere before the Euros, I consistently warn anyone who will listen not to back Spurs finishing in the top 4 ...MonikerDiCanio said:
But I made one bad call loudly and frequently and my fate was sealed forever. Such is life for those of us prepared to stand above the parapet.0 -
Iain McKenzie MP for Labour been told to leave his polling station for screaming at people to vote no! You couldn't make it up0
-
Yeah, there is absolutely zero reason the price should have drifted. It doesn't matter if everything is wrong and it's actually going to be 90/10 No - from the info we have available 5.9 is Nuts.TheScreamingEagles said:Sod it
Just backed Yes at 5.9.
There's no way it should be that price, given the polling.
When the early returns come in, and show it is close, that price will tumble
0 -
Source?malcolmg said:Iain McKenzie MP for Labour been told to leave his polling station for screaming at people to vote no! You couldn't make it up
0 -
Go on then, get stuck in and Stand for the job.TheScreamingEagles said:South Yorkshire Police Commissioner Election set for October the 30th.
Yay, I'm eligible to vote in it.0 -
I sure do: wealth creators and the lawyers who drain them of their wealth.MikeK said:
You so will dance about with the elite #SouthamObserver. ;-)SouthamObserver said:
It was the fact I spend so much time in the US - and have done for the last 20 years - that made me think Romney would win. So many of the lifelong Democrats I knew were so disillusioned with Obama that I thought if they could feel that way, what about everyone else. What I did not factor in, of course, was that the people I know and work with are not representative.Socrates said:
It wasn't making the call that got you your reputation. It was doing it with such certainty while not paying any heed to those of us that knew America much better than you did, having lived and worked there.SouthamObserver said:
I am lambasted for one big call - my hopeless Romney prediction. That aside I am not bad either, though like everyone else I don't get it all right. I joined PB forecasting tat Boris would beat Ken in 2008 when most thought the opposite, was on a hung parliament in 20I0, I predicted UKIP would do much better in the east of England than elsewhere before the Euros, I consistently warn anyone who will listen not to back Spurs finishing in the top 4 ...MonikerDiCanio said:
But I made one bad call loudly and frequently and my fate was sealed forever. Such is life for those of us prepared to stand above the parapet.
0 -
Morning all. So we could be in the final 24hrs of David Cameron's Prime Ministership!!!!!0
-
@Beverley C: "Dreams are often very unreal - that is why people like them."
Yes - and they can also point the way to changing things for the better. Cf: The "I have a dream...." speech.
If you never dream you never do anything.
(Possibly the fact that I've recently been to NY and seen the museum at Ellis Island where all those people with scarcely more than the clothes on their back arrived with their dreams is influencing me.)0 -
Indeed - a carve up between two groups of shysters - while the SFA did SFA.malcolmg said:
Hmmm they could be more than 25 points above bottom team, good for the 1st division but dire for Rangers. Still a disaster of epic proportions for them.TGOHF said:
We are already in the lower divisions - 25 points wont send us down. The clubs in that division will be made up - another bumper season of revenue.malcolmg said:
will be lower divisions again though , 25 points this time.TGOHF said:
Cheer up malc - will come to a head before Xmas - the gravy train has run out of gravy.malcolmg said:
How dire are things at Rangers just now. How could so many vultures get on the board etc and pick the bones dry. Incredible and looks like another administration coming up just as the team start to look half decent. A paltry 15000 at Ibrox the other night.TGOHF said:
Biffy Clyro obviously the pick of the current bunch - just don't mention they are Rangers fans...TheScreamingEagles said:All this talk about Scottish bands and no one has mentioned the Trashcan Sinatras.
0 -
Does anyone have a list of key wards/constituencies and their declaration times? I'm thinking aboutsstaying up for the result but someone mentioned it will only start at 2am which seems like a long wait without an exit poll to look over.0
-
Another awesome Lib Dem bar chart
http://order-order.com/2014/09/18/another-libdem-contribution-to-statistical-excellence/0 -
I know nothing about vacuum cleaners, but the argument is that you can get the necessary suckage without needing all those watts, and people buy them because they also don't know their vacuum cleaners and assume moar must be better. If that's right then you get a energy-saving win without much practical downside, although I'd still be opposed because freedom.oxfordsimon said:
It is an utterly bizarre ban.Richard_Tyndall said:
That is a result of the exact wording of the ban. It is on importing or manufacturing any further higher power models. But it does not prevent the continued sale of existing stock.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
The odd thing is that in the run up to the ban, one well known uk selling company was selling (in £) some very powerful ones >2kW with a significant discount, as you would expect when it is days away from being banned.state_go_away said:
Vacuum cleaners have gone political!! They are part of the Class War now. Strange timesBenM said:I love how dim British consumers are!
Helping retail sales by buying lots of pointless high energy consuming vaccuum cleaners?
Such idiocy brings capitalism into disrepute.
Go to their website now and it has not been withdrawn, is still on sale, and has gone back to full price. So it looks like they have just stuck two fingers up to the EU.
Vacuum cleaners are not in use 24/7 in every home. Their contribution to energy consumption is not that great when you look at all the other things that are in use in a domestic setting. What is likely to happen is that people will have to run their new lower power machines for longer - and thus still use about the same amount of energy as before to achieve the same result.
It is policies like this that make people wonder about the EU and their priorities.0 -
http://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/2gqzi6/twitter_rumour_iain_mckenzie_mp_asked_to_leave/Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Source?malcolmg said:Iain McKenzie MP for Labour been told to leave his polling station for screaming at people to vote no! You couldn't make it up
Looks odd - but may just be mischief making on Twitter - time will tell.
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I have to agree that it's the certainty that makes people remember it. What was it Dale Carnegie wrote? Something like we're all wrong most of the time, if you can guarantee being right more than half the time you can make a mint on the stock market. But it's the repeated certainty of your posts about this that will make them stand out over everyone else who was wrong (if they end up being wrong).SouthamObserver said:
It was the fact I spend so much time in the US - and have done for the last 20 years - that made me think Romney would win. So many of the lifelong Democrats I knew were so disillusioned with Obama that I thought if they could feel that way, what about everyone else. What I did not factor in, of course, was that the people I know and work with are not representative.Socrates said:
It wasn't making the call that got you your reputation. It was doing it with such certainty while not paying any heed to those of us that knew America much better than you did, having lived and worked there.SouthamObserver said:
I am lambasted for one big call - my hopeless Romney prediction. That aside I am not bad either, though like everyone else I don't get it all right. I joined PB forecasting tat Boris would beat Ken in 2008 when most thought the opposite, was on a hung parliament in 20I0, I predicted UKIP would do much better in the east of England than elsewhere before the Euros, I consistently warn anyone who will listen not to back Spurs finishing in the top 4 ...MonikerDiCanio said:
But I made one bad call loudly and frequently and my fate was sealed forever. Such is life for those of us prepared to stand above the parapet.0 -
Stuart Fraser @StuuuartMan
Pal who was a firm No voter phoned me to say he's just voted Yes! Said he had the pencil hovering over No but it just didn't feel right0 -
It was my understanding that you only flew in and out on business trips. If so, I think it was inevitable that you would not have immersed yourself in American society to understand the views of different subgroups. I remember before the 2008 elections trying to explain that most of the hardcore American Right weren't actually Bible bashers, and few people gave me a hearing on here. Now that segment has a name: the Tea Party.SouthamObserver said:
It was the fact I spend so much time in the US - and have done for the last 20 years - that made me think Romney would win. So many of the lifelong Democrats I knew were so disillusioned with Obama that I thought if they could feel that way, what about everyone else. What I did not factor in, of course, was that the people I know and work with are not representative.Socrates said:
It wasn't making the call that got you your reputation. It was doing it with such certainty while not paying any heed to those of us that knew America much better than you did, having lived and worked there.SouthamObserver said:
I am lambasted for one big call - my hopeless Romney prediction. That aside I am not bad either, though like everyone else I don't get it all right. I joined PB forecasting tat Boris would beat Ken in 2008 when most thought the opposite, was on a hung parliament in 20I0, I predicted UKIP would do much better in the east of England than elsewhere before the Euros, I consistently warn anyone who will listen not to back Spurs finishing in the top 4 ...MonikerDiCanio said:
But I made one bad call loudly and frequently and my fate was sealed forever. Such is life for those of us prepared to stand above the parapet.
I also remember a week or so before the 2012 elections explicitly telling you that the people you seemed to be interacting with weren't representative. If I recall you acknowledge the logical possibility, but never seemed to properly process what it meant.0 -
When YES win by a single vote we will know the reason.malcolmg said:
Stuart Fraser @StuuuartMan
Pal who was a firm No voter phoned me to say he's just voted Yes! Said he had the pencil hovering over No but it just didn't feel right0 -
On that the die is cast. His "Vow" has been very, very poorly received by Tory backbenchers, I think yes or no, Dave is in trouble. He made too many concessions without consulting his party which will be too hard to sell on the doorstep against UKIP in England.GIN1138 said:Morning all. So we could be in the final 24hrs of David Cameron's Prime Ministership!!!!!
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To make Southam feel better, we should all list our worst predictions.
I give you the following
1) Hazel Blears as next Labour leader after Gordon Brown
2) Topping up on James Purnell to be next Labour leader after Gordon Brown, within 5 hours he announced he was stepping down as an MP
3) Joe Lieberman as John McCain's running mate in 20080 -
Anecdotal evidence regarding a stranger, who has a friend who's voted 'Yes'.malcolmg said:
Stuart Fraser @StuuuartMan
Pal who was a firm No voter phoned me to say he's just voted Yes! Said he had the pencil hovering over No but it just didn't feel right
It's all over.0 -
TIPPING POINT LOLjam2809 said:
When YES win by a single vote we will know the reason.malcolmg said:
Stuart Fraser @StuuuartMan
Pal who was a firm No voter phoned me to say he's just voted Yes! Said he had the pencil hovering over No but it just didn't feel right0 -
Before Scotland started sending down their tyrannical Stuart kings, we had Elizabethan England. We had writers setting plays in Venice, sailors circumnavigating the globe and farmers crossing the wild Atlantic to settle in New England and Virginia. Hardly insular!Beverley_C said:
It is good for everyone because:Cyclefree said:
Forget the Scots for a moment. Why is it good for England and Wales and Northern Ireland for Scotland to be in the Union?
1) Historically, it is a proven winning combination. Both countries have done better together than they did apart. Beforehand England was insular and Scotland was poor. Why go back to that?
2) The fallout will impact everyone negatively for years to come
3) It will spilt families and friends. Why do that?
4) Scots have made many positive contributions to the rest of the UK. Hopefully the younger, brighter scots will emigrate en masse like Irish youth do and hopefully we will still benefit from them.0 -
None of those answers, to my mind, tell me why it will be good for England in the future to have Scotland in a political union with the rest of the UK.Beverley_C said:
It is good for everyone because:Cyclefree said:
Forget the Scots for a moment. Why is it good for England and Wales and Northern Ireland for Scotland to be in the Union?
1) Historically, it is a proven winning combination. Both countries have done better together than they did apart. Beforehand England was insular and Scotland was poor. Why go back to that?
2) The fallout will impact everyone negatively for years to come
3) It will spilt families and friends. Why do that?
4) Scots have made many positive contributions to the rest of the UK. Hopefully the younger, brighter scots will emigrate en masse like Irish youth do and hopefully we will still benefit from them.
Re point 1: England was not insular before 1707 - it was already in the throws of creating an Empire and the English were exploring the globe for nearly 2 centuries by then. I don't think England will become insular again as a result of Scotland leaving. Nor do I assume that Scotland will go back to being poor.
Point 2: it may or may not. That rather depends on how we deal with it.
Point 3: it is possible to disagree without it turning into a rancorous dispute.
Point 4: So the reason for Scotland to stay is so that their youth can emigrate. Hmm?? Their youth can emigrate to England anyway even if independent.
It just doesn't seem very much to me. But appreciate that I'm not Scots. If I - as a Londoner with Irish roots - feel so ho-hum about it, I'm not surprised that so many Scots feel the need to go off on their own.
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Mr. Max, Cameron often seems to disregard his own MPs. It's almost as if he considered 'job done' as far as the PCP was concerned once he became leader.0
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Two words.TheScreamingEagles said:To make Southam feel better, we should all list our worst predictions.
I give you the following
1) Hazel Blears as next Labour leader after Gordon Brown
2) Topping up on James Purnell to be next Labour leader after Gordon Brown, within 5 hours he announced he was stepping down as an MP
3) Joe Lieberman as John McCain's running mate in 2008
Rick and Perry.
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I think North Lanarkshire will be the big early indicator tonight.
http://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/09/18/north-lanarkshire-could-be-the-crucial-early-indyref-result-tonight/0 -
I didn't think there would be anybody alive who thought that it was anything other than ridiculous and offensive to taxpayers for the EU to pay some bureaucrats to interfere in fecking vacuum cleaner specs
But i forgot about BenM. Silly me.
When do we get our EU referendum again?0 -
Scottish independence: all to play for as exclusive poll reveals six point lead for No campaign
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-all-to-play-for-as-exclusive-poll-reveals-six-point-lead-for-no-campaign-9740413.html0
