RedBox (Times online service) did a poll of 3000 Scots on how they'll feel about the result:
If Yes, 36 per cent of people would feel "delighted", 10 per cent would be "pleased on balance", 6 per cent would have "no strong feelings either way", 13 per cent would be "disappointed on balance", and 35 per cent would feel "dismayed".
If No: 34 per cent delighted; 13 per cent pleased on balance; 10 per cent no strong feelings either way; 19 per cent disappointed on balance; 24 per cent dismayed.
Not much in it, but they conclude that (a bit unexpectedly) opponents are slightly more fervent. The 6-10% who don't much care is perhaps a cautionary note for those betting on an incredible turnout.
Over the last 48 hours I've now decided that I want Yes to win. If it had been a 60-40 thing it might have been different, but it's pretty clear at this point that a majority of Scots have no particular attachment to the UK. Most would want to leave if they could, but it's just a chunk of them are clinging to the rest of us as an economic security blanket and the subsidy from the South East. Well, in that case, I hope they sod off. I'm quite happy to send my substantial taxes north and west to support my fellow countrymen, but if they don't feel they are my countrymen then we're just being economically exploited.
I'm fed up for them to suck on the teat of the South East despite no sense of affiliation, all the while sending left-wing MPs south to up my taxes further. We're the ones that actually pay for the union, yet our conservative views are always side-lined to keep the moaning Scots onside. Our positions on things like health and education are diluted by the Celtic fringe, who vote on our systems despite it not affecting them. It's our part of the country that gets overwhelmed with immigration due to them bolstering the left wing establishment. It's our English culture that gets mocked and jeered, while our political leaders wax lyrical about the Scots. Well, I've had enough of it. I don't want them leeching off us any more for their pensions and dole checks and bank guarantees. They can leave. No tax subsidies. No currency union. No economic support while their tin pot socialist state falls into recession.
Exactly the same here. So many people have said, their 'heart' is for yes, but their 'head' may be for no.
If you're hearts not in the Union..then the Union isn't worth it.
That would make me damned proud to be Scottish. (Love Amy Macdonald's voice.)
Hairs on the back of the neck innit.
Love the call and response bits from the crowd
'gainst him
w*nkers
feck off
Welsh national anthem is equally stirring. English one is utter gash.
'God save the Queen' is the dreariest national anthem of all. I don't understand why it's not replaced with the absolutely cracking 'Land of Hope and Glory' - the adoption of which would also be a fitting tribute to the country's greatest composer, Edward Elgar.
RedBox (Times online service) did a poll of 3000 Scots on how they'll feel about the result:
If Yes, 36 per cent of people would feel "delighted", 10 per cent would be "pleased on balance", 6 per cent would have "no strong feelings either way", 13 per cent would be "disappointed on balance", and 35 per cent would feel "dismayed".
If No: 34 per cent delighted; 13 per cent pleased on balance; 10 per cent no strong feelings either way; 19 per cent disappointed on balance; 24 per cent dismayed.
Not much in it, but they conclude that (a bit unexpectedly) opponents are slightly more fervent. The 6-10% who don't much care is perhaps a cautionary note for those betting on an incredible turnout.
Over the last 48 hours I've now decided that I want Yes to win. If it had been a 60-40 thing it might have been different, but it's pretty clear at this point that a majority of Scots have no particular attachment to the UK. Most would want to leave if they could, but it's just a chunk of them are clinging to the rest of us as an economic security blanket and the subsidy from the South East. Well, in that case, I hope they sod off. I'm quite happy to send my substantial taxes north and west to support my fellow countrymen, but if they don't feel they are my countrymen then we're just being economically exploited.
I'm fed up for them to suck on the teat of the South East despite no sense of affiliation, all the while sending left-wing MPs south to up my taxes further. We're the ones that actually pay for the union, yet our conservative views are always side-lined to keep the moaning Scots onside. Our positions on things like health and education are diluted by the Celtic fringe, who vote on our systems despite it not affecting them. It's our part of the country that gets overwhelmed with immigration due to them bolstering the left wing establishment. It's our English culture that gets mocked and jeered, while our political leaders wax lyrical about the Scots. Well, I've had enough of it. I don't want them leeching off us any more for their pensions and dole checks and bank guarantees. They can leave. No tax subsidies. No currency union. No economic support while their tin pot socialist state falls into recession.
"Our positions on things like health and education"????
Can you tell me the last time that England voted for a right wing approach to either? And, when it did, can you tell me how the Celtic fringes stopped anything from happening?
I'd also love to know what bits of "our English culture that gets mocked and jeered" by anyone.
You sound dangerously like you believe you are a victim Socrates. Are you?
One politician (and possibly only one) is going to come out of this with his reputation enhanced:
The Telegraph:
Gordon Brown calls on No voters to 'stand up and be counted' Former Prime Minister delivers barnstorming speech at final Better Together rally before vote urging Unionists to 'hold your head high' and be confident of victory
Mr, Carnyx, Murray's entirely entitled to his view, and to either keep it private or make it public.
But claiming it's no more biased than the Queen's statement (which she said to one individual and which was just 'think about it carefully') is nonsense. Murray's backed one side. Fair enough, but neutral it is not.
Point taken re HM, but I just can't work out if Mr Murray is saying yes - or two different things: (a) a comment on the process, and (b) encouragement for the final vote, and that last could be either to vote, or vote yes. He could have been clearer. Even the Graun can;t quite decide. But the rest of the media will resolve that Schroedinger's moggy of a statement for him, I suppose, if PBers are any guide.
Voted early ca 0740 - misty but dry autumn day. The teller said that there was a small knot at doors at the start, and what I saw was a reasonably steady trickle.
I'm a Conservative but not a unionist (probably the result of 30 odd years of Irish Troubles). It's going to be a mess after tomorrow. A quick clean break is probably best for England and Wales. (fr - former division 7 South Staffs Tennis League)
maybe if Scotland do leave us today it would be a good excuse to change the anthem.
Not that I am a fan really of anthems . Its not so much the cringeworthy nationalism but the inconvenience (oh FGS I have just made myself comfortable at the cricket why do we all have to sing a song now) and especially the amateur communal singing theme -I have always hated this type of singing , whether its rugby songs or sea bleeding shanties.
It is crucial to recognise that the current ‘anti-politics’ mood is not an anomaly or a cry of pain. It is the start of a new political order, one in which people want bold ideas to get out of what they see as a political and societal morass. The ‘yes’ phenomenon should be seen as part of this wider movement. In Scotland, Cameron noticed the speed of the shift far too late and was left unable to preserve the status quo. He ended up having almost to offer home rule in desperation and, worse, his old enemy Gordon Brown had to offer it for him.
There are seven more months until the UK general election. In that time Cameron needs to stand for something different. It is funny how a man so obsessed with modernity cannot bring himself to recognise the latest trends in politics, even when they slap him in the face. The voters want bold, not emasculated, politics. And that is one of the many lessons that Cameron should bring back from Scotland.
Mr. Observer, Land of Hope and Glory is often played at Commonwealth Games for England. I think it was changed to Jerusalem last time, for reasons unknown.
apologies if someone has already asked this.... what are the chances that if there is a narrow "yes" vote and then it turns out that the rUK really wasn't bluffing about currency union and the EU really weren't scaremongering about having to re-apply and businesses made it clear they were moving out.
would there be a possibility when it was proven that Salmond was talking nonsense that Labour win a landslide at the next Scottish elections and decide they must re-run the referendum on the basis that the campaign was based on "lies"?
apologies if someone has already asked this.... what are the chances that if there is a narrow "yes" vote and then it turns out that the rUK really wasn't bluffing about currency union and the EU really weren't scaremongering about having to re-apply and businesses made it clear they were moving out.
would there be a possibility when it was proven that Salmond was talking nonsense that Labour win a landslide at the next Scottish elections and decide they must re-run the referendum on the basis that the campaign was based on "lies"?
maybe if Scotland do leave us today it would be a good excuse to change the anthem.
It's a great excuse to change a lot more than that. Sadly, after the initial shock the response will be for each party to go into its own self-absorbed huddle to work out how it can best manipulate developments to its own advantage. Thus, dissatisfaction with Westminster will increase and the rUK will become increasingly disgruntled. If we get the leaders we deserve, we really have done something very wrong indeed.
Ha Ha Ha , just had my 5th e-mail of the day from Labour , they are down to bottom of the barrel. Told Gordon he was a lying cheat Told Ed he was crap Told Dougie he was a lying Tory Told Johann she was mince So they now threaten me with anus sarwar asking me to go help them get people to vote NO, there is still time what a laugh
apologies if someone has already asked this.... what are the chances that if there is a narrow "yes" vote and then it turns out that the rUK really wasn't bluffing about currency union and the EU really weren't scaremongering about having to re-apply and businesses made it clear they were moving out.
would there be a possibility when it was proven that Salmond was talking nonsense that Labour win a landslide at the next Scottish elections and decide they must re-run the referendum on the basis that the campaign was based on "lies"?
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Decent tune, but its melancholy is not appropriate for a national anthem. 'Hope & Glory' towers above any of the other possible candidates.
Land of Hope and Glory is ponderous and Victorian.
The national anthem would sound much better if we stuck to the original 3-part melody and orchestration; unfortunately, it wouldn't work very well in stadiums!
Guess what, the Greens are a bunch of fascist hypocrites, one rule for us, one rule for them.
A Green Party peer and London Assembly member who branded black cabs one of the capital’s “most polluting” vehicles today came under fire for claiming more taxi journeys than all her colleagues combined — including Mayor Boris Johnson.
A Standard analysis reveals Baroness Jenny Jones claimed for nearly three times the number of journeys Mr Johnson did and nearly six times that of the Assembly member with the third highest journeys claimed.
Today she said she used more taxis because she does “more work” and lives in a “fairly dodgy” area.
On topic, for us English, Welsh and Northern Irish, today feels like an American Presidential election, you know the result is going to effect you, and we really should have a vote in it.
England's national anthems: "Jerusalem" on solemn/sacred occasions; "Land of Hope" on more vulgar and sporting occasions; "GStheQ" in the presence of Her Majesty.
It is crucial to recognise that the current ‘anti-politics’ mood is not an anomaly or a cry of pain. It is the start of a new political order, one in which people want bold ideas to get out of what they see as a political and societal morass. The ‘yes’ phenomenon should be seen as part of this wider movement. In Scotland, Cameron noticed the speed of the shift far too late and was left unable to preserve the status quo. He ended up having almost to offer home rule in desperation and, worse, his old enemy Gordon Brown had to offer it for him.
There are seven more months until the UK general election. In that time Cameron needs to stand for something different. It is funny how a man so obsessed with modernity cannot bring himself to recognise the latest trends in politics, even when they slap him in the face. The voters want bold, not emasculated, politics. And that is one of the many lessons that Cameron should bring back from Scotland.
God Save our Queen might be appropriate if we revive the now unsung second verse.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade May by thy mighty aid Victory bring. May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush. God save the King.
RedBox (Times online service) did a poll of 3000 Scots on how they'll feel about the result:
If Yes, 36 per cent of people would feel "delighted", 10 per cent would be "pleased on balance", 6 per cent would have "no strong feelings either way", 13 per cent would be "disappointed on balance", and 35 per cent would feel "dismayed".
If No: 34 per cent delighted; 13 per cent pleased on balance; 10 per cent no strong feelings either way; 19 per cent disappointed on balance; 24 per cent dismayed.
Not much in it, but they conclude that (a bit unexpectedly) opponents are slightly more fervent. The 6-10% who don't much care is perhaps a cautionary note for those betting on an incredible turnout.
Over the last 48 hours I've now decided that I want Yes to win. If it had been a 60-40 thing it might have been different, but it's pretty clear at this point that a majority of Scots have no particular attachment to the UK. Most would want to leave if they could, but it's just a chunk of them are clinging to the rest of us as an economic security blanket and the subsidy from the South East. Well, in that case, I hope they sod off. I'm quite happy to send my substantial taxes north and west to support my fellow countrymen, but if they don't feel they are my countrymen then we're just being economically exploited. - SNIP-
"Our positions on things like health and education"????
Can you tell me the last time that England voted for a right wing approach to either? And, when it did, can you tell me how the Celtic fringes stopped anything from happening?
I'd also love to know what bits of "our English culture that gets mocked and jeered" by anyone.
You sound dangerously like you believe you are a victim Socrates. Are you?
I think you're conflating two separate points. One was on our conservative views in general not being represented in government enough. A second point was the blatant unfairness of the West Lothian Question, still ignored after years and years: the classic case was the original voting through of tuition fees. There's been a general mocking over the years that waving St George's Cross, or saying you're proud to be English, is a bit racist. No one would ever dare say something similar about the Saltire or the Red Dragon.
As for whether I'm a victim in general, no I'm not. I do very well for myself. But I am unfairly having my taxes taken out of my pay check to fund better social services in Scotland. And then they have the cheek to say that the country is run for the benefit of the South East! It's about time the Scots learnt how to have some gratitude and thanked London and the home counties for their generosity.
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Decent tune, but its melancholy is not appropriate for a national anthem. 'Hope & Glory' towers above any of the other possible candidates.
Land of Hope and Glory is an Imperial British anthem, isn't it, rather than an English one?
Jerusalem is good, but not an easy one to sing. I did not see any of the Commonwealth Games. How did our boys and girls cope with it?
Jerusalem would be a good anthem, isn't it just standard for kids to sing it at school growing up. I think Land of Hope and Glory would be the best choice, very uplifting.
You can tell the YES and NO voters by whether or not they smile when they see the rosette. Mostly NO I'd say. All the 4x4 drivers are NO. One has just told me about 5 workers who'll lose their jobs tomorrow if it's YES. Very upset. Oh dear.
Mr. Observer, Land of Hope and Glory is often played at Commonwealth Games for England. I think it was changed to Jerusalem last time, for reasons unknown.
Jerusalem is already the anthem to the England Cricket team.
Similarly, as Southam says, sport is how Flower of Scotland first started replacing Scotland the Brave. Love the England team in the background. Thinking....uh oh...
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Decent tune, but its melancholy is not appropriate for a national anthem. 'Hope & Glory' towers above any of the other possible candidates.
Land of Hope and Glory is an Imperial British anthem, isn't it, rather than an English one?
Jerusalem is good, but not an easy one to sing. I did not see any of the Commonwealth Games. How did our boys and girls cope with it?
Jerusalem would be a good anthem, isn't it just standard for kids to sing it at school growing up. I think Land of Hope and Glory would be the best choice, very uplifting.
We should have Land of Hope and Glory for the British anthem and Jerusalem for the English one.
I noticed at this years Last Night at the Proms "Rule Britannia" received a particularly loud and prolonged cheer and was the only "National" song to be granted an encore.
Where i work there are 6-8 "ex-pat" Scots, all denied a vote (unlike the Colombian guy and Spanish lady who have left here in the last couple of year to get jobs in Scotland), and all in favour of a No. They haven't taken it very seriously until recent days, now they are generally not amused by my banter about preparing asylum seeker claims on Friday etc. and are getting worried.
Having also not cared myself, all the rushing of Westminster politicians to promise yet more lorry loads of English cash to ship up the M1 has changed that, and i hope they vote Yes. Scotland will be screwed without English taxpayers, and what Socrates says a few posts down is spot on. The maths of the gargantuan public spending vs the exports of kilts and shortbread required unless the oil price doubles just doesn't add up.
Still think the number of silent intimidated No voters will swing it. I reckon 46:54 for No, deeply unsatisfactory for anybody. hey ho
I had a very interesting leaflet from the local Conservatives [in Exeter] yesterday.
From their new candidate for the constituency at the next GE, but it was very coy about being a Conservative party leaflet. Main colour was red. A lot of text about "real people" for Parliament and bringing an end to the era of "career politicians". At first I genuinely thought it was a local initiative to elect an Independent, but on the inside there was a small Conservative tree logo, and the captions on many of the photos revealed them to be of Conservative Party campaign events.
There are doubtless some dastardly smart people involved in running the Conservative campaign, and it's a good attempt to reflect the mood, but if there isn't anything substantive underpinning it, then it might just make people angry at the attempt to con them.
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Decent tune, but its melancholy is not appropriate for a national anthem. 'Hope & Glory' towers above any of the other possible candidates.
Land of Hope and Glory is an Imperial British anthem, isn't it, rather than an English one?
Jerusalem is good, but not an easy one to sing. I did not see any of the Commonwealth Games. How did our boys and girls cope with it?
Jerusalem would be a good anthem, isn't it just standard for kids to sing it at school growing up. I think Land of Hope and Glory would be the best choice, very uplifting.
"I vow to thee my country" has always been my favourite, would make a cracking National Anthem.
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Decent tune, but its melancholy is not appropriate for a national anthem. 'Hope & Glory' towers above any of the other possible candidates.
Land of Hope and Glory is an Imperial British anthem, isn't it, rather than an English one?
Jerusalem is good, but not an easy one to sing. I did not see any of the Commonwealth Games. How did our boys and girls cope with it?
Jerusalem would be a good anthem, isn't it just standard for kids to sing it at school growing up. I think Land of Hope and Glory would be the best choice, very uplifting.
out of the two I would go for Jerusalem (can we have a referendum on it?) . Never thought of it as a sad song but its a far more intelligent song than Land of Hope and Glory. Call me a big snob if you like but singing Jerusalem would make us sound more intelligent and reflective as a nation than the rabble rouser Land of Hope and Glory. Anyway if somebody said 'oh lets stop all anthems at sporting events' I would be quite happy
I noticed at this years Last Night at the Proms "Rule Britannia" received a particularly loud and prolonged cheer and was the only "National" song to be granted an encore.
I think it gets an encore every year. The programme for the last 30 mins or so of the last night is always the same.
Mr. Eagles, reminds me of Caroline Lucas' aeroplane trips, which are pure evil when taken by an ordinary mortal but become a force for good when a terribly special Green takes them.
Mr. Eagles, reminds me of Caroline Lucas' aeroplane trips, which are pure evil when taken by an ordinary mortal but become a force for good when a terribly special Green takes them.
To be fair to her, Camberwell is a dodgy place, I don't blame her.
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Decent tune, but its melancholy is not appropriate for a national anthem. 'Hope & Glory' towers above any of the other possible candidates.
Land of Hope and Glory is an Imperial British anthem, isn't it, rather than an English one?
Jerusalem is good, but not an easy one to sing. I did not see any of the Commonwealth Games. How did our boys and girls cope with it?
Jerusalem would be a good anthem, isn't it just standard for kids to sing it at school growing up. I think Land of Hope and Glory would be the best choice, very uplifting.
"I vow to thee my country" has always been my favourite, would make a cracking National Anthem.
I always found the middle verse the most moving, but people misinterpreted it, so they never sing it now. A shame.
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Decent tune, but its melancholy is not appropriate for a national anthem. 'Hope & Glory' towers above any of the other possible candidates.
Land of Hope and Glory is an Imperial British anthem, isn't it, rather than an English one?
Jerusalem is good, but not an easy one to sing. I did not see any of the Commonwealth Games. How did our boys and girls cope with it?
Jerusalem would be a good anthem, isn't it just standard for kids to sing it at school growing up. I think Land of Hope and Glory would be the best choice, very uplifting.
out of the two I would go for Jerusalem (can we have a referendum on it?) . Never thought of it as a sad song but its a far more intelligent song than Land of Hope and Glory. Call me a big snob if you like but singing Jerusalem would make us sound more intelligent and reflective as a nation than the rabble rouser Land of Hope and Glory. Anyway if somebody said 'oh lets stop all anthems at sporting events' I would be quite happy
We should sing anthems, but lose the "leading the singing" thing.
As if 60,000 people or whatever belting out a tune isn't rousing enough on it's own.
Where i work there are 6-8 "ex-pat" Scots, all denied a vote (unlike the Colombian guy and Spanish lady who have left here in the last couple of year to get jobs in Scotland), and all in favour of a No. They haven't taken it very seriously until recent days, now they are generally not amused by my banter about preparing asylum seeker claims on Friday etc. and are getting worried.
Having also not cared myself, all the rushing of Westminster politicians to promise yet more lorry loads of English cash to ship up the M1 has changed that, and i hope they vote Yes. Scotland will be screwed without English taxpayers, and what Socrates says a few posts down is spot on. The maths of the gargantuan public spending vs the exports of kilts and shortbread required unless the oil price doubles just doesn't add up.
Still think the number of silent intimidated No voters will swing it. I reckon 46:54 for No, deeply unsatisfactory for anybody. hey ho
Glad the sad sacks are down there, we can do without any more no hopers.
I noticed at this years Last Night at the Proms "Rule Britannia" received a particularly loud and prolonged cheer and was the only "National" song to be granted an encore.
I think it gets an encore every year. The programme for the last 30 mins or so of the last night is always the same.
They did go through a three year period recently of sacking the Fantasia on British Sea Songs, which is the best part of the night
I don't want to send @SeanT into depression and crash the markets too much but the Guardian found some Shy Yes's - In Dumfries & Galloway
An English couple in their 50s arrived excitedly just after 7am. They refused to be named or photographed: “Because we’re voting yes and all of our family think we are a no.”
As a welsh unionist all the English not British stuff does worry me. Of course they are entitled to feel that way, but it's a rather troubling thing from our perspective. I do think it ludicrous when you have all these people saying Wales could be next to go. I've always thought the most likely route to Welsh independence was English nationalism. It'll be they who break away, not us.
I don't want to send @SeanT into depression and crash the markets too much but the Guardian found some Shy Yes's - In Dumfries & Galloway
An English couple in their 50s arrived excitedly just after 7am. They refused to be named or photographed: “Because we’re voting yes and all of our family think we are a no.”
Jerusalem and Land of both suffer from being religious mumbo jumbo. We need a secular anthem to celebrate the greatness of the nation achieved by the work of man, not by some divine fairy dust.
Mr. Observer, Land of Hope and Glory is often played at Commonwealth Games for England. I think it was changed to Jerusalem last time, for reasons unknown.
Jerusalem is already the anthem to the England Cricket team.
Similarly, as Southam says, sport is how Flower of Scotland first started replacing Scotland the Brave. Love the England team in the background. Thinking....uh oh...
What a fine team that Scotland side was. Lots of players from the Borders teams, where the soul of Scottish rugby resides. I have never seen a more committed, dogged, resilient, brave performance from any side playing any sport. It was incredible to watch.
I don't see anything unintelligent about this bit:
Thy fame is ancient as the days, as ocean large and wide: A pride that dares, and heeds not praise, a stern and silent pride; Not that false joy that dreams content, with what our sires have won; The blood a hero sire hath spent, still nerves a hero son.
EDIT: Or, in fact, this bit:
Thine equal laws, by freedom gained, have ruled thee well and long; By freedom gained, by truth maintained, thine Empire shall be strong.
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Decent tune, but its melancholy is not appropriate for a national anthem. 'Hope & Glory' towers above any of the other possible candidates.
Land of Hope and Glory is an Imperial British anthem, isn't it, rather than an English one?
Jerusalem is good, but not an easy one to sing. I did not see any of the Commonwealth Games. How did our boys and girls cope with it?
Jerusalem would be a good anthem, isn't it just standard for kids to sing it at school growing up. I think Land of Hope and Glory would be the best choice, very uplifting.
out of the two I would go for Jerusalem (can we have a referendum on it?) . Never thought of it as a sad song but its a far more intelligent song than Land of Hope and Glory. Call me a big snob if you like but singing Jerusalem would make us sound more intelligent and reflective as a nation than the rabble rouser Land of Hope and Glory. Anyway if somebody said 'oh lets stop all anthems at sporting events' I would be quite happy
We should sing anthems, but lose the "leading the singing" thing.
As if 60,000 people or whatever belting out a tune isn't rousing enough on it's own.
yes especially when they lead off in that exaggerated singing style that seems to win you X-factor
You can tell the YES and NO voters by whether or not they smile when they see the rosette. Mostly NO I'd say. All the 4x4 drivers are NO. One has just told me about 5 workers who'll lose their jobs tomorrow if it's YES. Very upset. Oh dear.
Any company that would sack workers the day after a Yes vote without any idea of the final settlement probably wasn't going to stay in business very long anyway. Just ludicrous.
apologies if someone has already asked this.... what are the chances that if there is a narrow "yes" vote and then it turns out that the rUK really wasn't bluffing about currency union and the EU really weren't scaremongering about having to re-apply and businesses made it clear they were moving out.
would there be a possibility when it was proven that Salmond was talking nonsense that Labour win a landslide at the next Scottish elections and decide they must re-run the referendum on the basis that the campaign was based on "lies"?
No.
OTOH if a Lab Scottish government reckoned it had a mandate to spin out negotiations from now to the end of time, demand a kilo of gold for every inhabitant and full currency union and Prince George's head on a platter as a condition of signing the final dissolution document, etc, etc,I don't see what's to stop it doing just that. A Yes vote just results in an agreement to make an agreement on the terms of dissolution.
That would make me damned proud to be Scottish. (Love Amy Macdonald's voice.)
Hairs on the back of the neck innit.
Love the call and response bits from the crowd
'gainst him
w*nkers
feck off
Welsh national anthem is equally stirring. English one is utter gash.
'God save the Queen' is the dreariest national anthem of all. I don't understand why it's not replaced with the absolutely cracking 'Land of Hope and Glory' - the adoption of which would also be a fitting tribute to the country's greatest composer, Edward Elgar.
Plenty of variations on God Save The King and a great musical quote in Haydn Symphony 98, amongst others. (surpised myself by ref to wrong No.).
Elgar's Coronation Ode had that belter of a tune - but Benson's words are asinine. I would be surprised if any half competent composer would want quote Flower of Scotland. It is one of the most depressing tunes, if the Scots do run off, they could at least reflect on finding something more positive and vibrant.
I don't see anything unintelligent about this bit:
Thy fame is ancient as the days, as ocean large and wide: A pride that dares, and heeds not praise, a stern and silent pride; Not that false joy that dreams content, with what our sires have won; The blood a hero sire hath spent, still nerves a hero son.
EDIT: Or, in fact, this bit:
Thine equal laws, by freedom gained, have ruled thee well and long; By freedom gained, by truth maintained, thine Empire shall be strong.
maybe not but its on the bragging side as opposed to the inner pride side of Jerusalem imo As with people you always prefer something or somebody who has inner pride than a bragger
"Shakespeare is as much Scotland's as England's. On independence they will take Othello, King Lear and, of course, Macbeth."
Iit strikes me that as most of Shakespeare's life precedes the Union of the Crowns, never mind the Union of 1707, it is unlikely that Shakespeare was an avowed Briton.
He did fail to spot that England is not an island, though, one of his few failings it must be said :-)
"This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle, ..... ......This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England".
As a welsh unionist all the English not British stuff does worry me. Of course they are entitled to feel that way, but it's a rather troubling thing from our perspective. I do think it ludicrous when you have all these people saying Wales could be next to go. I've always thought the most likely route to Welsh independence was English nationalism. It'll be they who break away, not us.
Screw English nationalism, if the Scots go, we want the heptarchy back. Finally throw off the yoke of the tosspot Wessexers. Go small, walk tall.
I'm always wrong but from what I've seen NO should win. Several people have come over and quietly said such things as 'we're with you' suggesting to me anyway that there's a silent majority. One or two glower but who wouldn't in this weather!
Jerusalem and Land of both suffer from being religious mumbo jumbo. We need a secular anthem to celebrate the greatness of the nation achieved by the work of man, not by some divine fairy dust.
Nonsense. I'm a secularist but the mythology of Christianity is as much part of our history as the mythology of St. George and the dragon. Would you cut out the latter from our national celebrations because they're "mumbo jumbo". Besides, I've always read Jerusalem as suggesting that the answer to the early questions were "no", before moving on to say that as a result we'd have to build the perfect society ourselves.
The worst thing we could do is to try to get something that reflects "modern society". You'd end up with a song by One Direction about diversity and the NHS.
"Shakespeare is as much Scotland's as England's. On independence they will take Othello, King Lear and, of course, Macbeth."
Iit strikes me that as most of Shakespeare's life precedes the Union of the Crowns, never mind the Union of 1707, it is unlikely that Shakespeare was an avowed Briton.
He did fail to spot that England is not an island, though, one of his few failings it must be said :-)
"This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle, ..... ......This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England".
Wasn't one of his plays very much written for Jamie Saxt and First come 1603? I forget which however, up too early to vote!
I noticed at this years Last Night at the Proms "Rule Britannia" received a particularly loud and prolonged cheer and was the only "National" song to be granted an encore.
Rule Britannia would also have the advantage of our sports people not embarrassing themselves trying to remember the words as it is an operatic song.
Carlotta. I was surprised at how quickly the genteel veneer disappeared. And I thought the anger was just on the side of YES .....you were right about Brown. He seems to be everyone's poster boy (the NO people anyway) who'd have thought.....
Even the FT is a fan:
Scotland these past few weeks has been watching a politician reborn. Gordon Brown had become Britain’s forgotten prime minister, lost since his 2010 general election defeat in self-imposed exile. That was until he took centre stage to energise the unionist campaign fighting Scottish separation.
Brown's speech yesterday was a tour de force, absolutely superb.
Why hasn't he been out on the stump for the past year making the same speech across Scotland?
In hindsight, he should have led Better Together. Which should have had a better name too.
If the Union squeaks home, we all deserve to give Gordon a pat on the back. I will still be a bit miffed about "the Vow" though and the trouble it's going to cause.
Why give him a pat on the back? All his intervention has done is to force all three main parties to agree future policies towards Scotland which no-one in the rest of the UK has had a chance to discuss or vote on which will favour Scotland and likely favour Labour. As ever with Brown he has a Labour agenda. Nothing wrong with that but I see no reason why those who are not Labour should see him as some kind of saviour.
Jerusalem and Land of both suffer from being religious mumbo jumbo. We need a secular anthem to celebrate the greatness of the nation achieved by the work of man, not by some divine fairy dust.
Nonsense. I'm a secularist but the mythology of Christianity is as much part of our history as the mythology of St. George and the dragon. Would you cut out the latter from our national celebrations because they're "mumbo jumbo". Besides, I've always read Jerusalem as suggesting that the answer to the early questions were "no", before moving on to say that as a result we'd have to build the perfect society ourselves.
The worst thing we could do is to try to get something that reflects "modern society". You'd end up with a song by One Direction about diversity and the NHS.
Well, as a proud East Anglian, if we have to have patron saints I'd get rid of the Turk and replace him with the rightful Patron, Edmund
Jerusalem is a bit of a rage against industrialisation, which is what made the country great. Land of is a better option of the two. Vindaloo would be better
You can tell the YES and NO voters by whether or not they smile when they see the rosette. Mostly NO I'd say. All the 4x4 drivers are NO. One has just told me about 5 workers who'll lose their jobs tomorrow if it's YES. Very upset. Oh dear.
Any company that would sack workers the day after a Yes vote without any idea of the final settlement probably wasn't going to stay in business very long anyway. Just ludicrous.
Jerusalem and Land of both suffer from being religious mumbo jumbo. We need a secular anthem to celebrate the greatness of the nation achieved by the work of man, not by some divine fairy dust.
Nonsense. I'm a secularist but the mythology of Christianity is as much part of our history as the mythology of St. George and the dragon. Would you cut out the latter from our national celebrations because they're "mumbo jumbo". Besides, I've always read Jerusalem as suggesting that the answer to the early questions were "no", before moving on to say that as a result we'd have to build the perfect society ourselves.
The worst thing we could do is to try to get something that reflects "modern society". You'd end up with a song by One Direction about diversity and the NHS.
could be onto something with the modern society thing - If we did I would recommend Neighbourhood by Space -its not quite modern (but 1990s) . Would be great to belt out 'in number 666 there lives a Mr Miller He's the local vicar and a serial killer'
As a welsh unionist all the English not British stuff does worry me. Of course they are entitled to feel that way, but it's a rather troubling thing from our perspective. I do think it ludicrous when you have all these people saying Wales could be next to go. I've always thought the most likely route to Welsh independence was English nationalism. It'll be they who break away, not us.
To me Wales has always been a loyal home nation. Should Scotland leave, let us just go on with three home nations rather than four. We will still have 92% of our population and our Briitshness.
I'm always wrong but from what I've seen NO should win. Several people have come over and quietly said such things as 'we're with you' suggesting to me anyway that there's a silent majority. One or two glower but who wouldn't in this weather!
The Proclaimers "Letter from America" is a fantastic song, and the Vaselines songs sounded great when Nirvana covered them, but other than that I'm not a great fan of Scottish music... Except Rod and he's an Essex boy anyway
You can tell the YES and NO voters by whether or not they smile when they see the rosette. Mostly NO I'd say. All the 4x4 drivers are NO. One has just told me about 5 workers who'll lose their jobs tomorrow if it's YES. Very upset. Oh dear.
When I was was telling I found what was very 'telling' was whether they made eye contact or not. Something as simple as a look and a wink from a voter can do wonders for morale.
Jerusalem and Land of both suffer from being religious mumbo jumbo. We need a secular anthem to celebrate the greatness of the nation achieved by the work of man, not by some divine fairy dust.
Nonsense. I'm a secularist but the mythology of Christianity is as much part of our history as the mythology of St. George and the dragon. Would you cut out the latter from our national celebrations because they're "mumbo jumbo". Besides, I've always read Jerusalem as suggesting that the answer to the early questions were "no", before moving on to say that as a result we'd have to build the perfect society ourselves.
The worst thing we could do is to try to get something that reflects "modern society". You'd end up with a song by One Direction about diversity and the NHS.
could be onto something with the modern society thing - If we did I would recommend Neighbourhood by Space -its not quite modern (but 1990s) . Would be great to belt out 'in number 666 there lives a Mr Miller He's the local vicar and a serial killer'
Who lives in a place like this!!
We could go with the Libertines:
If Queen Boadicea is long dead and gone Still then the spirit in her children's children's children It lives on
If you've lost your faith in love and music, oh the end won't be long Because if it's gone for you then I too may lose it And that would be wrong
You know I've tried so hard to keep myself from falling Back into my bad old ways And it chars my heart to always hear you calling Calling for the good old days Because there were no good old days These are the good old days!
Murray, who lives near Walton-on-Thames, added: “I make lots of money and I’d be happy to give it all to Scottish pensioners if, for some unknown reason, it doesn’t work out.
“I just have to clear it with my accountant. Let’s do this!”
‘Yes’ follower Emma Robertson said: “I just love Andy’s blind faith, his use of exclamation marks and his massive, crazy promises.
Jerusalem and Land of both suffer from being religious mumbo jumbo. We need a secular anthem to celebrate the greatness of the nation achieved by the work of man, not by some divine fairy dust.
Nonsense. I'm a secularist but the mythology of Christianity is as much part of our history as the mythology of St. George and the dragon. Would you cut out the latter from our national celebrations because they're "mumbo jumbo". Besides, I've always read Jerusalem as suggesting that the answer to the early questions were "no", before moving on to say that as a result we'd have to build the perfect society ourselves.
The worst thing we could do is to try to get something that reflects "modern society". You'd end up with a song by One Direction about diversity and the NHS.
Absolutely right. Jerusalem is an overtly religious song but I would have no problem with it being the English national anthem.
The Proclaimers "Letter from America" is a fantastic song, and the Vaselines songs sounded great when Nirvana covered them, but other than that I'm not a great fan of Scottish music... Except Rod and he's an Essex boy anyway
I did quite like the 'I would walk 500 miles' song until it was done to death at the Commonwealth games
Comments
Love the call and response bits from the crowd
'gainst him
w*nkers
feck off
Welsh national anthem is equally stirring. English one is utter gash.
If you're hearts not in the Union..then the Union isn't worth it.
What would it be if they did? Jerusalem I guess. Great song too, only candidate that could rival the Scottish and Welsh anthems.
Can you tell me the last time that England voted for a right wing approach to either? And, when it did, can you tell me how the Celtic fringes stopped anything from happening?
I'd also love to know what bits of "our English culture that gets mocked and jeered" by anyone.
You sound dangerously like you believe you are a victim Socrates. Are you?
The Telegraph:
Gordon Brown calls on No voters to 'stand up and be counted'
Former Prime Minister delivers barnstorming speech at final Better Together rally before vote urging Unionists to 'hold your head high' and be confident of victory
Voted early ca 0740 - misty but dry autumn day. The teller said that there was a small knot at doors at the start, and what I saw was a reasonably steady trickle.
The Welsh anthem wins for me though. We don't actually have one, do we? We just get to intone God Save the Queen.
Not that I am a fan really of anthems . Its not so much the cringeworthy nationalism but the inconvenience (oh FGS I have just made myself comfortable at the cricket why do we all have to sing a song now) and especially the amateur communal singing theme -I have always hated this type of singing , whether its rugby songs or sea bleeding shanties.
would there be a possibility when it was proven that Salmond was talking nonsense that Labour win a landslide at the next Scottish elections and decide they must re-run the referendum on the basis that the campaign was based on "lies"?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KTsg9i6lvqU
Told Gordon he was a lying cheat
Told Ed he was crap
Told Dougie he was a lying Tory
Told Johann she was mince
So they now threaten me with anus sarwar asking me to go help them get people to vote NO, there is still time what a laugh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isZ-llcVCOY
The national anthem would sound much better if we stuck to the original 3-part melody and orchestration; unfortunately, it wouldn't work very well in stadiums!
Here it is:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01dmhp7
A Green Party peer and London Assembly member who branded black cabs one of the capital’s “most polluting” vehicles today came under fire for claiming more taxi journeys than all her colleagues combined — including Mayor Boris Johnson.
A Standard analysis reveals Baroness Jenny Jones claimed for nearly three times the number of journeys Mr Johnson did and nearly six times that of the Assembly member with the third highest journeys claimed.
Today she said she used more taxis because she does “more work” and lives in a “fairly dodgy” area.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/baroness-jenny-jones-claims-for-more-taxis-than-all-of-her-colleagues-combined-because-she-lives-in-a-dodgy-area-9739773.html
Jerusalem is good, but not an easy one to sing. I did not see any of the Commonwealth Games. How did our boys and girls cope with it?
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.
As for whether I'm a victim in general, no I'm not. I do very well for myself. But I am unfairly having my taxes taken out of my pay check to fund better social services in Scotland. And then they have the cheek to say that the country is run for the benefit of the South East! It's about time the Scots learnt how to have some gratitude and thanked London and the home counties for their generosity.
Similarly, as Southam says, sport is how Flower of Scotland first started replacing Scotland the Brave. Love the England team in the background. Thinking....uh oh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWFoUsjuTlM
Where i work there are 6-8 "ex-pat" Scots, all denied a vote (unlike the Colombian guy and Spanish lady who have left here in the last couple of year to get jobs in Scotland), and all in favour of a No. They haven't taken it very seriously until recent days, now they are generally not amused by my banter about preparing asylum seeker claims on Friday etc. and are getting worried.
Having also not cared myself, all the rushing of Westminster politicians to promise yet more lorry loads of English cash to ship up the M1 has changed that, and i hope they vote Yes. Scotland will be screwed without English taxpayers, and what Socrates says a few posts down is spot on. The maths of the gargantuan public spending vs the exports of kilts and shortbread required unless the oil price doubles just doesn't add up.
Still think the number of silent intimidated No voters will swing it. I reckon 46:54 for No, deeply unsatisfactory for anybody. hey ho
From their new candidate for the constituency at the next GE, but it was very coy about being a Conservative party leaflet. Main colour was red. A lot of text about "real people" for Parliament and bringing an end to the era of "career politicians". At first I genuinely thought it was a local initiative to elect an Independent, but on the inside there was a small Conservative tree logo, and the captions on many of the photos revealed them to be of Conservative Party campaign events.
There are doubtless some dastardly smart people involved in running the Conservative campaign, and it's a good attempt to reflect the mood, but if there isn't anything substantive underpinning it, then it might just make people angry at the attempt to con them.
As if 60,000 people or whatever belting out a tune isn't rousing enough on it's own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnMsOCFBU9M
We need a secular anthem to celebrate the greatness of the nation achieved by the work of man, not by some divine fairy dust.
I don't see anything unintelligent about this bit:
Thy fame is ancient as the days, as ocean large and wide:
A pride that dares, and heeds not praise, a stern and silent pride;
Not that false joy that dreams content, with what our sires have won;
The blood a hero sire hath spent, still nerves a hero son.
EDIT: Or, in fact, this bit:
Thine equal laws, by freedom gained, have ruled thee well and long;
By freedom gained, by truth maintained, thine Empire shall be strong.
OTOH if a Lab Scottish government reckoned it had a mandate to spin out negotiations from now to the end of time, demand a kilo of gold for every inhabitant and full currency union and Prince George's head on a platter as a condition of signing the final dissolution document, etc, etc,I don't see what's to stop it doing just that. A Yes vote just results in an agreement to make an agreement on the terms of dissolution.
Elgar's Coronation Ode had that belter of a tune - but Benson's words are asinine. I would be surprised if any half competent composer would want quote Flower of Scotland. It is one of the most depressing tunes, if the Scots do run off, they could at least reflect on finding something more positive and vibrant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abTyLNIc7r4
Durham UA - Crook - Independent incumbent died
Oxford BC - Quarry & Risinghurst - Labour defence
As with people you always prefer something or somebody who has inner pride than a bragger
"Shakespeare is as much Scotland's as England's. On independence they will take Othello, King Lear and, of course, Macbeth."
Iit strikes me that as most of Shakespeare's life precedes the Union of the Crowns, never mind the Union of 1707, it is unlikely that Shakespeare was an avowed Briton.
He did fail to spot that England is not an island, though, one of his few failings it must be said :-)
"This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle, .....
......This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiF4QI5nIIY
The worst thing we could do is to try to get something that reflects "modern society". You'd end up with a song by One Direction about diversity and the NHS.
http://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=DoUrpmnaZVo
Mr. Socrates, spot on.
Jerusalem is a bit of a rage against industrialisation, which is what made the country great. Land of is a better option of the two. Vindaloo would be better
'in number 666 there lives a Mr Miller
He's the local vicar and a serial killer'
Who lives in a place like this!!
If Queen Boadicea is long dead and gone
Still then the spirit in her children's children's children
It lives on
If you've lost your faith in love and music, oh the end won't be long
Because if it's gone for you then I too may lose it
And that would be wrong
You know I've tried so hard to keep myself from falling
Back into my bad old ways
And it chars my heart to always hear you calling
Calling for the good old days
Because there were no good old days
These are the good old days!
Murray, who lives near Walton-on-Thames, added: “I make lots of money and I’d be happy to give it all to Scottish pensioners if, for some unknown reason, it doesn’t work out.
“I just have to clear it with my accountant. Let’s do this!”
‘Yes’ follower Emma Robertson said: “I just love Andy’s blind faith, his use of exclamation marks and his massive, crazy promises.
“He’s really getting into the spirit of it.”