I have precisely zero faith in the Westminster elite to do the right thing by England and create a proper FUK. So........sadly.......come on Scotland! Vote YES!
There will be much more constitutional clarity with a Yes vote, and devomax is only a stepping stone to full independence.
I too am a Yes, though would have preferred this to have happened without the tissue of lies and bluster by Salmond.
How can any sane person HAPPILY seek the economic horror show of Indy is beyond me. Especially if they are English!
I dislike Westminster as much as the next person, and resent the WLQ, but these are minor gripes compared to the national turmoil and impoverishment we face after YES.
Tsk.
It won't hurt the rest of the UK that much - the likely fall in sterling will eventually help our trade deficit, and we would get some good people and some good businesses. Scotland will have a pretty deep recession after some fairly serious financial panic.
Despite that I like Scotland and hope for a No. Anyone who thinks the relationship between the two countries would start off all smiles is dreaming though.
Regardless of the result its a festival of democracy. Mass voter registration, mass debate, hopefully mass turnout.
It's not a 'festival' for those having agonising sleepless nights, terrified of losing their country.
This is deadly serious.
Well said.
How can it be a "festival", when we have a flawed question and process, a Yes campaign built on lies, abuse and wishful thinking, a No campaign of staggering ineptitude which failed to cope with the Yes tirade or even assemble a coherent case for the Union until Gordon spoke yesterday, and voter intimidation and abuse on a scale that Putin or Mugabe would be proud of?
This is a terrible day, and whether it's a narrow Yes or a narrow No, the worst of it only begins tomorrow.
Meanwhile, mister Farage is whistling, as he shaves. With a badger hair shaving brush.
What do you think of Farage? I can't remember you saying much about him, positive or negative and when having a quick google for your opinion was too amused by this to continue http://www.press-report.co.uk/ukip-gains-seant-in-genaeral-election I know it's just a typo but still.. You're not afraid to upset your telegraph comments fan base are you? The Ukippers seem to love you above all the other bloggers (except maybe Carswell!) but they still wouldn't like you attacking St Nige
By the way, the PB Diplomacy Desth Match has just finished. Andy Cooke won, narrowly beating off a late-game alliance between Corporeal and me, with Freggles surviving to the end. A really open, fluid game, with Freggles and Pulpstar as France taking much of the credit by an innovative "go south" strategy in 1901-2. I missed my orders on my first builds as Russia, and seemed destined for early doom, with Germany (Corporeal), Austria (Monty) and Turkey (Andy) all tucking in, but after some frenetic diplomacy the situation stabilised, and Austria and Fox's Italy were early victims of the E/F/T squeeze. Germany then stabbed France to dominate the Continent.
A long period of jockeying followed, with Turkey steadily expanding and Russia switching sides back and forth to catch up. Then Germany and Russia took out most of England and turned to try to stop Turkey - but too late...
The Death Match rules (no draws allowed) did affect play quite drastically (and positively) - a boring TG draw would otherwise have been likely. The attack on England was probably the fatal mistake for Germany and Russia even though it was over swiftly - it was just slow enough to enable Turkey to break through. But without that it's not clear how the game would ever have ended! I was quite happy to survive with a reasonable position (even if Germany stabbed me on the last turn to secure a good second place) after the awful start, but the honours definitely go to Andy for an urbane, steady strategy that took him all the way.
Carlotta. I was surprised at how quickly the genteel veneer disappeared. And I thought the anger was just on the side of YES .....you were right about Brown. He seems to be everyone's poster boy (the NO people anyway) who'd have thought.....
Even the FT is a fan:
Scotland these past few weeks has been watching a politician reborn. Gordon Brown had become Britain’s forgotten prime minister, lost since his 2010 general election defeat in self-imposed exile. That was until he took centre stage to energise the unionist campaign fighting Scottish separation.
Yes or No, I'll be supporting anyone but Murray in the tennis from now on...
If it'a a No I'll support him; if it's a Yes then good luck to him but he will be a foreigner and I would take the same interest in him as if he came from Cameroon or Canada.
He's just a young bloke looking on from afar safe in the knowledge that whatever happens he'll be fine. And he's only expressing what millions of other Scots are thinking. Blame Westminster and the Nats, not them.
He could win all the grand slams in a row now and still not get SPOTY.
Mr. Nashe, could be wrong but I'm reasonably sure The Proclaimers are Yes.
Mr. Palmer, as an observer I must say it was fascinating to watch. Although you didn't win, your revival after an early bout of narcolepsy was impressive.
Wet drizzling and grey but the polling station is very busy. My job is to smile and wear a rosette(I refused their t shirt) and count people who vote but no discussion with them on who they are or have voted for
I have precisely zero faith in the Westminster elite to do the right thing by England and create a proper FUK. So........sadly.......come on Scotland! Vote YES!
There will be much more constitutional clarity with a Yes vote, and devomax is only a stepping stone to full independence.
I too am a Yes, though would have preferred this to have happened without the tissue of lies and bluster by Salmond.
How can any sane person HAPPILY seek the economic horror show of Indy is beyond me. Especially if they are English!
Because although Scotland faces a Venezuelan future England does not. The UK will keep its currency, institutions, markets and international memberships. It will also have a more business friendly electorate. I'm sure you are right that there will be some damage for a while - but the UK deficit, for example, will improve if Scotland goes.
The real release will be the changed political dynamic in England. We have the prosepct of a sustained period of 'sound money' governance - thank the lord. It seems incredible to me (a fairly hard nosed pragmatist) that we re-elect Labour governments from time to time to ruin our finances all over again:
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man There are only four things certain since Social Progress began. That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire
England is indeed a 'mongrel nation' and socialism is its vomit.
If you think that Labour is or ever has been a socialist Party you need to get out more.
I guess that depends wholly on how you define 'socialist'. For me it means spendy, lefty, big state, anti-markets, central planning, deficits don't matter, tax the productive to incentivise the unproductive, entitlements mindset, financial incontinence. Labour is deeply socialist on that score.
By the way, the PB Diplomacy Desth Match has just finished. Andy Cooke won, narrowly beating off a late-game alliance between Corporeal and me, with Freggles surviving to the end. A really open, fluid game, with Freggles and Pulpstar as France taking much of the credit by an innovative "go south" strategy in 1901-2. I missed my orders on my first builds as Russia, and seemed destined for early doom, with Germany (Corporeal), Austria (Monty) and Turkey (Andy) all tucking in, but after some frenetic diplomacy the situation stabilised, and Austria and Fox's Italy were early victims of the E/F/T squeeze. Germany then stabbed France to dominate the Continent.
A long period of jockeying followed, with Turkey steadily expanding and Russia switching sides back and forth to catch up. Then Germany and Russia took out most of England and turned to try to stop Turkey - but too late...
The Death Match rules (no draws allowed) did affect play quite drastically (and positively) - a boring TG draw would otherwise have been likely. The attack on England was probably the fatal mistake for Germany and Russia even though it was over swiftly - it was just slow enough to enable Turkey to break through. But without that it's not clear how the game would ever have ended! I was quite happy to survive with a reasonable position (even if Germany stabbed me on the last turn to secure a good second place) after the awful start, but the honours definitely go to Andy for an urbane, steady strategy that took him all the way.
Poor doomed Italy! Game IV is also quite fluid and unstable.
From that FT article on Brown, pithy critique of the SNP's approach:
Mr Salmond needs the votes of the low paid and no paid in the bleak urban landscapes of Scotland’s central belt in order to push the nationalist vote above 50 per cent. As populist politicians across Europe have learnt, these areas provide fertile ground for the divisive politics of identity and grievance.
Uncomfortable facts are easily elbowed aside by atavistic emotions and opponents shouted down. This is what seems to have been happening in parts of Scotland as voters have responded to Mr Salmond’s dog-whistle nationalism.
Regardless of the result its a festival of democracy. Mass voter registration, mass debate, hopefully mass turnout.
It's not a 'festival' for those having agonising sleepless nights, terrified of losing their country.
This is deadly serious.
Well said.
How can it be a "festival", when we have a flawed question and process, a Yes campaign built on lies, abuse and wishful thinking, a No campaign of staggering ineptitude which failed to cope with the Yes tirade or even assemble a coherent case for the Union until Gordon spoke yesterday, and voter intimidation and abuse on a scale that Putin or Mugabe would be proud of?
This is a terrible day, and whether it's a narrow Yes or a narrow No, the worst of it only begins tomorrow.
I would like to see your evidence of Putin's voter intimidation and abuse. There were UN observers at the most recent elections, which he won handsomely.
Wet drizzling and grey but the polling station is very busy. My job is to smile and wear a rosette(I refused their t shirt) and count people who vote but no discussion with them on who they are or have voted for
"Wet drizzling and grey"
Roger that's enough about yourself, you're meant to tell us about the vote.
Mr. Nashe, could be wrong but I'm reasonably sure The Proclaimers are Yes.
Mr. Palmer, as an observer I must say it was fascinating to watch. Although you didn't win, your revival after an early bout of narcolepsy was impressive.
The Proclaimers are indeed very much Yes. At the beginning of September they donated £10,000 to the Yes campaign.
Mr. Nashe, could be wrong but I'm reasonably sure The Proclaimers are Yes.
Mr. Palmer, as an observer I must say it was fascinating to watch. Although you didn't win, your revival after an early bout of narcolepsy was impressive.
The Proclaimers are indeed very much Yes. At the beginning of September they donated £10,000 to the Yes campaign.
Mr. G, it doesn't matter how wealthy those at the top are. It matters how wealthy those at the bottom are.
MD , yes and in the UK they are far from it, among the most unequal countries in the world. It matters a lot if a few people take all the money, just because they can.
Wet drizzling and grey but the polling station is very busy. My job is to smile and wear a rosette(I refused their t shirt) and count people who vote but no discussion with them on who they are or have voted for
"Wet drizzling and grey"
Roger that's enough about yourself, you're meant to tell us about the vote.
RedBox (Times online service) did a poll of 3000 Scots on how they'll feel about the result:
If Yes, 36 per cent of people would feel "delighted", 10 per cent would be "pleased on balance", 6 per cent would have "no strong feelings either way", 13 per cent would be "disappointed on balance", and 35 per cent would feel "dismayed".
If No: 34 per cent delighted; 13 per cent pleased on balance; 10 per cent no strong feelings either way; 19 per cent disappointed on balance; 24 per cent dismayed.
Not much in it, but they conclude that (a bit unexpectedly) opponents are slightly more fervent. The 6-10% who don't much care is perhaps a cautionary note for those betting on an incredible turnout.
Regardless of the result its a festival of democracy. Mass voter registration, mass debate, hopefully mass turnout.
It's not a 'festival' for those having agonising sleepless nights, terrified of losing their country.
This is deadly serious.
Well said.
How can it be a "festival", when we have a flawed question and process, a Yes campaign built on lies, abuse and wishful thinking, a No campaign of staggering ineptitude which failed to cope with the Yes tirade or even assemble a coherent case for the Union until Gordon spoke yesterday, and voter intimidation and abuse on a scale that Putin or Mugabe would be proud of?
This is a terrible day, and whether it's a narrow Yes or a narrow No, the worst of it only begins tomorrow.
The democratic process is always a bit messy, but Scotland is not Zimbabwe!
Economic upheaval has winners as well as losers. Higher interest rates mean more for savers, a lower pound helps exports, lower house prices make for more affordable moves and stock market crashes create buying opportunities.
The world will continue to turn, and there is no day so long or so bad that it does not draw to a close.
Carlotta. I was surprised at how quickly the genteel veneer disappeared. And I thought the anger was just on the side of YES .....you were right about Brown. He seems to be everyone's poster boy (the NO people anyway) who'd have thought.....
Even the FT is a fan:
Scotland these past few weeks has been watching a politician reborn. Gordon Brown had become Britain’s forgotten prime minister, lost since his 2010 general election defeat in self-imposed exile. That was until he took centre stage to energise the unionist campaign fighting Scottish separation.
Brown's speech yesterday was a tour de force, absolutely superb.
Why hasn't he been out on the stump for the past year making the same speech across Scotland?
In hindsight, he should have led Better Together. Which should have had a better name too.
If the Union squeaks home, we all deserve to give Gordon a pat on the back. I will still be a bit miffed about "the Vow" though and the trouble it's going to cause.
Mr. Nashe, could be wrong but I'm reasonably sure The Proclaimers are Yes.
Mr. Palmer, as an observer I must say it was fascinating to watch. Although you didn't win, your revival after an early bout of narcolepsy was impressive.
The Proclaimers are indeed very much Yes. At the beginning of September they donated £10,000 to the Yes campaign.
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
I have precisely zero faith in the Westminster elite to do the right thing by England and create a proper FUK. So........sadly.......come on Scotland! Vote YES!
There will be much more constitutional clarity with a Yes vote, and devomax is only a stepping stone to full independence.
I too am a Yes, though would have preferred this to have happened without the tissue of lies and bluster by Salmond.
How can any sane person HAPPILY seek the economic horror show of Indy is beyond me. Especially if they are English!
Because although Scotland faces a Venezuelan future England does not. The UK will keep its currency, institutions, markets and international memberships. It will also have a more business friendly electorate. I'm sure you are right that there will be some damage for a while - but the UK deficit, for example, will improve if Scotland goes.
The real release will be the changed political dynamic in England. We have the prosepct of a sustained period of 'sound money' governance - thank the lord. It seems incredible to me (a fairly hard nosed pragmatist) that we re-elect Labour governments from time to time to ruin our finances all over again:
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man There are only four things certain since Social Progress began. That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire
England is indeed a 'mongrel nation' and socialism is its vomit.
If you think that Labour is or ever has been a socialist Party you need to get out more.
Whether or not you regard Labour to be sufficiently socialist, there have been plenty of examples to enjoy worldwide over the last 100 years. In its milder forms, it produces economic stagnation, insolvency and social breakdown, and in its more virrulent form it results in genocide.
Mr. G, 'take' all the money? They haven't put fences around magic money trees. And there isn't a set-in-stone quantity of wealth in the world.
The problem with wealth distribution has been caused by several things, including mass immigration which helps the the top and hurts the bottom (ahem), and the financial crisis.
Just a day to go before the start of Singapore practice. Could be good for Ricciardo.
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
I can;t see how Murray's brave.
It would have been brave if he'd come out a week or a month ago and stated his case. Posting at 1am, from abroad, when the media can't question him just seems the opposite of brave to me.
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
He is not a sad tosser like you and only bigoted arses like you will be against him. Today is another nail in the coffin of the likes of you, heading for extinction, sad and bitter to the end.
Mr. G, it doesn't matter how wealthy those at the top are. It matters how wealthy those at the bottom are.
MD , yes and in the UK they are far from it, among the most unequal countries in the world. It matters a lot if a few people take all the money, just because they can.
In fact the UK is nowhere remotely near being one of the most unequal countries in the world. Look up Gini coefficient..
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
I can;t see how Murray's brave.
It would have been brave if he'd come out a week or a month ago and stated his case. Posting at 1am, from abroad, when the media can't question him just seems the opposite of brave to me.
Who is bothered by celebrity endorsements either way? Murray's opinion on Wimbledon may matter, but on independence it matters no more than a granny in Dundee. Probably less as at least she has a vote!
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
I can;t see how Murray's brave.
It would have been brave if he'd come out a week or a month ago and stated his case. Posting at 1am, from abroad, when the media can't question him just seems the opposite of brave to me.
Alan, perhaps he was genuinely undecided up to the last minute who knows, certainly would have been far better to show his colours a long time ago but when you see the comments you can understand why. NO are a real nasty bitter lot.
Mr. G, it doesn't matter how wealthy those at the top are. It matters how wealthy those at the bottom are.
MD , yes and in the UK they are far from it, among the most unequal countries in the world. It matters a lot if a few people take all the money, just because they can.
In fact the UK is nowhere remotely near being one of the most unequal countries in the world. Look up Gini coefficient..
Andy Murray (like Alan Cumming, J.K. Rowling, The Proclaimers, Brian Cox et.al) is entitled to express his opinion. I really don't see what difference it makes to his tennis career.
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
He is not a sad tosser like you and only bigoted arses like you will be against him. Today is another nail in the coffin of the likes of you, heading for extinction, sad and bitter to the end.
I have precisely zero faith in the Westminster elite to do the right thing by England and create a proper FUK. So........sadly.......come on Scotland! Vote YES!
There will be much more constitutional clarity with a Yes vote, and devomax is only a stepping stone to full independence.
I too am a Yes, though would have preferred this to have happened without the tissue of lies and bluster by Salmond.
How can any sane person HAPPILY seek the economic horror show of Indy is beyond me. Especially if they are English!
Because although Scotland faces a Venezuelan future England does not. The UK will keep its currency, institutions, markets and international memberships. It will also have a more business friendly electorate. I'm sure you are right that there will be some damage for a while - but the UK deficit, for example, will improve if Scotland goes.
The real release will be the changed political dynamic in England. We have the prosepct of a sustained period of 'sound money' governance - thank the lord. It seems incredible to me (a fairly hard nosed pragmatist) that we re-elect Labour governments from time to time to ruin our finances all over again:
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man There are only four things certain since Social Progress began. That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire
England is indeed a 'mongrel nation' and socialism is its vomit.
If you think that Labour is or ever has been a socialist Party you need to get out more.
I guess that depends wholly on how you define 'socialist'. For me it means spendy, lefty, big state, anti-markets, central planning, deficits don't matter, tax the productive to incentivise the unproductive, entitlements mindset, financial incontinence. Labour is deeply socialist on that score.
Well, for that matter I could define "conservative" as "anyone I don't like". That's not what it means, though!
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
I don't think it suggests that at all. He has simply stated where he stands and anyone with any sense would understand that and allow him to have his own opinion. The idea that supporting your country's genuine democratic aspirations makes you a traitor is perverse.
I would think the same if he had come out for No. And far less of him if, as a public figure, he had tried to let the issue slip by without making clear his own views.
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
He is not a sad tosser like you and only bigoted arses like you will be against him. Today is another nail in the coffin of the likes of you, heading for extinction, sad and bitter to the end.
I have precisely zero faith in the Westminster elite to do the right thing by England and create a proper FUK. So........sadly.......come on Scotland! Vote YES!
There will be much more constitutional clarity with a Yes vote, and devomax is only a stepping stone to full independence.
I too am a Yes, though would have preferred this to have happened without the tissue of lies and bluster by Salmond.
How can any sane person HAPPILY seek the economic horror show of Indy is beyond me. Especially if they are English!
Because although Scotland faces a Venezuelan future England does not. The UK will keep its currency, institutions, markets and international memberships. It will also have a more business friendly electorate. I'm sure you are right that there will be some damage for a while - but the UK deficit, for example, will improve if Scotland goes.
The real release will be the changed political dynamic in England. We have the prosepct of a sustained period of 'sound money' governance - thank the lord. It seems incredible to me (a fairly hard nosed pragmatist) that we re-elect Labour governments from time to time to ruin our finances all over again:
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man There are only four things certain since Social Progress began. That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire
England is indeed a 'mongrel nation' and socialism is its vomit.
If you think that Labour is or ever has been a socialist Party you need to get out more.
Whether or not you regard Labour to be sufficiently socialist, there have been plenty of examples to enjoy worldwide over the last 100 years. In its milder forms, it produces economic stagnation, insolvency and social breakdown, and in its more virrulent form it results in genocide.
If you are prepared to accept as socialist the likes of Pol Pot - on no better evidence than that they themselves say so - you come to such conclusions. All you really do is say: "thinking about fairness and equality drives me into such a lather that I need to lash out blindly",
FWIW I'm not a socialist, either. My objection to it is, as someone once said of something or other, not that it has been tried and found wanting, but that it has never been tried. It requires us all to be saints!
It was interesting last night watching all the programmes about the upcoming vote. What stood out was that all the YES people including politicians were happy and smiling. Contrast that with the BT people and all you had were ranting sour pussed politicians and glum people whinging about feeling intimidated as they stood there beside happy smiling cheery people.
Mr. Tyndall, I'd disagree on the last point. People have a right to keep their political views private if they want to, whether in the public eye or not.
I have precisely zero faith in the Westminster elite to do the right thing by England and create a proper FUK. So........sadly.......come on Scotland! Vote YES!
There will be much more constitutional clarity with a Yes vote, and devomax is only a stepping stone to full independence.
I too am a Yes, though would have preferred this to have happened without the tissue of lies and bluster by Salmond.
How can any sane person HAPPILY seek the economic horror show of Indy is beyond me. Especially if they are English!
I dislike Westminster as much as the next person, and resent the WLQ, but these are minor gripes compared to the national turmoil and impoverishment we face after YES.
Tsk.
You wept when Maggie died which amongst other things suggests you fear change. It will be alright Sean. It's like Y2K all over again. If they do vote YES, which seems unlikely now, after the initial flapping and panic we will sort it all out. We always do in these Isles.
No reason why Andy Murray can't say what he thinks and it doesn't make me like him any more or less. I'd be surprised if he wasn't pro Yes after previous remarks.
As a general thought, now is the time to start putting the bitterness and rancour behind. Whatever the result we have to move on, and get along.
Never seen so many 4x4's in my life and with personalised number plates. If this town isn't Tory then no town is ......ps gone very quiet
The pre-work rush will be over - now you'll get the pensioners, and those not gainfully employed.....I was surprised that "only" 90% of the eligible Aberdeen electorate had registered (vs a national average of 97%)
Get on with it you bunch of prima donnas. 3 years of posturing narcissism finally come to an end.
Calm down Mr Brooke. We'll be doing all this again in 10 years time after a narrow NO.
A NO by less than the number of Sassenachs resident in Scotland, or a YES by fewer than the number of 16- and 17-year-olds on the electoral role is surely going to leave a very bad taste in the mouth, north and south of the border.
I am beginning to wonder about DevoMax All Round, with London split off from England to produce a passably federal state in these islands...
A Yes by the number of EU residents living in Scotland and on the electoral register or by the number of Scots born in Scotland but prevented from voting because they currently live in other parts of the UK would be even more of a disgrace. I still think such a sitation would end in multiple legal challenge. I suspect plenty of people with deep pockets and land interests in Scotland willing to fund such.
Cameron has proved a crap negotiator letting Salmond get away with this and will pay in 2015 in UKIP votes.
I think that's slightly unfair on EU residents living in the UK. During the course of my work I see a lot of people from the Baltic States, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria and I would say insofar they have a view that they are quite nervous and unsettled by the vote and would prefer the UK to remain together and be economically strong as possible. My guess is that the majority of EU migrants in Scotland with a vote will be voting NO.
For those few (Alanbrooke springs to mind) still a touch irritated by Andy Murray's tipping point intervention, I can only assume he was inspired by the English genius Shakespeare-my second quote from him of the day ;-)
"This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man"
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Bit of an old chestnut this one about weather. When I studied politics the theory was that lovely weather actually benefits the status quo because people think 'oooh life's alright as it is.' May 03rd 1979 was one of several examples that go against that.
What does appear certain is that a significant number of voters don't decide until the morning (I've seen at least 5% quoted) and I supposed factors like the weather come into play on that. More likely is that if it's cold and wet it suppresses turnout, otherwise I fear you are clutching at straws here.
Lovely morning in the Yorkshire Dales as we look forward to the prospect of our own nationhood...
Seriously, the fundamental principle at play is that we live up to our commitment to self determination... If it's right for Falkland Islanders, Gibraltans, Latvians etc. then it's a right for the Scots. A tragedy for the Union maybe, but the rUK should wish an independent Scotland well and agree separation based on established, international principles... Going over Salmond's head to the Scottish people if need be....
I have precisely zero faith in the Westminster elite to do the right thing by England and create a proper FUK. So........sadly.......come on Scotland! Vote YES!
There will be much more constitutional clarity with a Yes vote, and devomax is only a stepping stone to full independence.
I too am a Yes, though would have preferred this to have happened without the tissue of lies and bluster by Salmond.
How can any sane person HAPPILY seek the economic horror show of Indy is beyond me. Especially if they are English!
I dislike Westminster as much as the next person, and resent the WLQ, but these are minor gripes compared to the national turmoil and impoverishment we face after YES.
Tsk.
As a general thought, now is the time to start putting the bitterness and rancour behind.
FPT Cyclefree I'm still on sabbatical for another 10 days (having a great time thanks). My other half has let me on pb for the referendum, in reasonable doses.
We've just spent a week in Slovenia, a small country that seems to do just fine on its own. Next week we're in Montenegro, too late to report back on a country that doesn't have its own currency.
The bigger drawback of this sabbatical lark is the difficulty of placing bets overseas online. Every country seems to have its own rules. I'm sure there are technological routes round them, but I'm not savvy enough to know them.
The Proclaimers are great. If you ignore the undeserved kitsch band prism through which most people view them, they're actually incredibly talented pop-folk songwriters.
For those few (Alanbrooke springs to mind) still a touch irritated by Andy Murray's tipping point intervention, I can only assume he was inspired by the English genius Shakespeare-my second quote from him of the day ;-)
"This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man"
Murray coming out for Indy doesn't annoy me in the least, the man's entitled to his views, my comments were to do with describing it as "brave". It wasn't.
Walking up Union Street in Aberdeen at about 7.15 this morning you would never guess that such a momentous day was just beginning. Just the normal fog wreathed scenes of people heading to work. Perhaps the only indication of anything different was that all the coffee chains (and Union Street seems to have more coffee shops than almost anywhere else in the world) were already full and I think we can probably guess what the main topic of conversation was.
Carlotta. I was surprised at how quickly the genteel veneer disappeared. And I thought the anger was just on the side of YES .....you were right about Brown. He seems to be everyone's poster boy (the NO people anyway) who'd have thought.....
Even the FT is a fan:
Scotland these past few weeks has been watching a politician reborn. Gordon Brown had become Britain’s forgotten prime minister, lost since his 2010 general election defeat in self-imposed exile. That was until he took centre stage to energise the unionist campaign fighting Scottish separation.
Brown's speech yesterday was a tour de force, absolutely superb.
Why hasn't he been out on the stump for the past year making the same speech across Scotland?
In hindsight, he should have led Better Together. Which should have had a better name too.
If the Union squeaks home, we all deserve to give Gordon a pat on the back. I will still be a bit miffed about "the Vow" though and the trouble it's going to cause.
All very true.
I fear we are in for "interesting times" whatever the outcome. You can almost feel the silence in the Tory party as they wait the result and work out their next move, and I suspect Ed is down on bended knee praying for a No with all his might whilst figuring out how he can then sell what's been given to Scotland without screwing up the WLQ (from his viewpoint).
As for Scotland I see the "least worse" outcome if it's a No, (and that still won't be great) and a really hard bang as reality hits over the next few months if it's a Yes, as I can only see that being really ugly all round as the negotiations for separation kick in.
The cold grey weather will definitely calm the mood today. There is no party festival atmosphere. I hope this will benefit No.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
I don't think it suggests that at all. He has simply stated where he stands and anyone with any sense would understand that and allow him to have his own opinion. The idea that supporting your country's genuine democratic aspirations makes you a traitor is perverse.
I would think the same if he had come out for No. And far less of him if, as a public figure, he had tried to let the issue slip by without making clear his own views.
Democratic is giving all the power to control my life to one man who I have and never will have voted for. I see that as dictatorship. Why should all decisions be made at Edinburgh? Why not in Glasgow, why not some in London and some in Brussels? As Brown says this is a trap.
Malcolm is right there is no joy amongst the No voters but a grim determination. That is probably why the sombre grey mood is probably better for No. Glasgow is eerily quiet. The seagulls are making the most noise.
OK. The second one is not so bad. Strangely, I rather like the sound of bagpipes (though I think they sound better by the side of a loch than they do in the middle of Oxford Street - which was where, yesterday, I last heard them played).
Mr. G, it doesn't matter how wealthy those at the top are. It matters how wealthy those at the bottom are.
MD , yes and in the UK they are far from it, among the most unequal countries in the world. It matters a lot if a few people take all the money, just because they can.
In fact the UK is nowhere remotely near being one of the most unequal countries in the world. Look up Gini coefficient..
it is 4th now and rocketing to the top.
I presume this is your own special measure. It's very hard for a developed country with a welfare state to get in the top half never mind about fourth.
What is more I would like to bet that Scotland will in fact be more unequal by the standard Gini measure (i.e. in reality) than the rest of the UK by 2020 should it become independent. That's because it would be forced to make bigger public spending cuts on any scenario not involving the oil price shooting up and so much of public spending is welfare of one kind or other.
Never seen so many 4x4's in my life and with personalised number plates. If this town isn't Tory then no town is ......ps gone very quiet
Its Oil money Roger, combined with weather.
It has driven up house prices vastly in Aberdeen itself (If you want to shock yourself go and look in the window of an estate agents up here). As a result huge numbers of people have moved out into the surrounding towns and villages. Inverurie is one big building site at the moment providing houses for people working in Aberdeen.
Given the rough weather commonly seen up here in the winter a 4x4 is rather less of a Chelsea tractor and more of a necessity.
OK. The second one is not so bad. Strangely, I rather like the sound of bagpipes (though I think they sound better by the side of a loch than they do in the middle of Oxford Street - which was where, yesterday, I last heard them played).
I like the sound of bagpipes for about 2 minutes. After that I start feeling increasingly homicidal.
OK. The second one is not so bad. Strangely, I rather like the sound of bagpipes (though I think they sound better by the side of a loch than they do in the middle of Oxford Street - which was where, yesterday, I last heard them played).
I like the sound of bagpipes for about 2 minutes. After that I start feeling increasingly homicidal.
Lovely morning in the Yorkshire Dales as we look forward to the prospect of our own nationhood...
Seriously, the fundamental principle at play is that we live up to our commitment to self determination... If it's right for Falkland Islanders, Gibraltans, Latvians etc. then it's a right for the Scots. A tragedy for the Union maybe, but the rUK should wish an independent Scotland well and agree separation based on established, international principles... Going over Salmond's head to the Scottish people if need be....
It is crucial to recognise that the current ‘anti-politics’ mood is not an anomaly or a cry of pain. It is the start of a new political order, one in which people want bold ideas to get out of what they see as a political and societal morass. The ‘yes’ phenomenon should be seen as part of this wider movement. In Scotland, Cameron noticed the speed of the shift far too late and was left unable to preserve the status quo. He ended up having almost to offer home rule in desperation and, worse, his old enemy Gordon Brown had to offer it for him.
There are seven more months until the UK general election. In that time Cameron needs to stand for something different. It is funny how a man so obsessed with modernity cannot bring himself to recognise the latest trends in politics, even when they slap him in the face. The voters want bold, not emasculated, politics. And that is one of the many lessons that Cameron should bring back from Scotland.
Mr. G, a good track but nowhere near as good as Bohemian Rhapsody.
Oh God.
Whenever "best songs ever" discussions come up and someone mentions Bohemian sodding Rhapsody or Imagine I have to fight the urge to get all muso on their arses...
Remind me, if the Union breaks up, who would be the Conservative and Unionist PM in charge of the Union at the time?
It's probably not going to break up, but, if it does, then Michael Ancram will be yet another Conservative spokesman from the early days of the Blair government who turned out to be absolutely right:
The Government's proposals carry within them the virus that will begin to eat away, and eventually cause to unravel, the bonds that hold the United Kingdom together. It is not written into the White Paper, but the virus is there. The proposals are the first step on the way to an independent Scotland and the break-up of the United Kingdom.
If the Conservative and Unionist PM David Cameron doesn't oversee the breakup of his Union, he will have a hell of job trying to reconcile his Party with Gordon Brown's DevoMore that ultimately saved the Union.
Embarrassing yourself again if you think "Conservative and Unionist" is making some kind of point. Wrong Union. Stick to misogyny.
To be fair, Hugh's being perfectly accurate (if from our Scottish perspective. It's called the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party up here.
Mr. G, a good track but nowhere near as good as Bohemian Rhapsody.
Flower of Scotland IS a good track indeed (although not the beautiful imo) but c'mon Bohemian Rhapsody??? To my ears its a load of screeching ,random sounds mixed in with a heavy dose of pretension
For those few (Alanbrooke springs to mind) still a touch irritated by Andy Murray's tipping point intervention, I can only assume he was inspired by the English genius Shakespeare-my second quote from him of the day ;-)
"This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man"
Shakespeare is as much Scotland's as England's. On independence they will take Othello, King Lear and, of course, Macbeth.
How can any sane person HAPPILY seek the economic horror show of Indy is beyond me. Especially if they are English!
I dislike Westminster as much as the next person, and resent the WLQ, but these are minor gripes compared to the national turmoil and impoverishment we face after YES
The Irish republic is no great issue for the UK, so why should Scotland be after the period of disentanglement?
We're gaining European Britons at a rate that will fully replace the Scots in numbers within 10 years.
The arrivals are young, hard working, unaddicted to welfarism.
Now consider the departures. Ageing, desperate to give welfare to empty rooms and hugely unhappy about the UK.
We'll be fine down here in Poundland, though the change will kick up some dust for a while.
OK. The second one is not so bad. Strangely, I rather like the sound of bagpipes (though I think they sound better by the side of a loch than they do in the middle of Oxford Street - which was where, yesterday, I last heard them played).
I like the sound of bagpipes for about 2 minutes. After that I start feeling increasingly homicidal.
I love the pipes, watch the Queen Mothers funeral procession, the music is incredible My Home then Mist Covered Mountains were the pipe tunes played in rotation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtFioVh74lE
Mr, Carnyx, Murray's entirely entitled to his view, and to either keep it private or make it public.
But claiming it's no more biased than the Queen's statement (which she said to one individual and which was just 'think about it carefully') is nonsense. Murray's backed one side. Fair enough, but neutral it is not.
RedBox (Times online service) did a poll of 3000 Scots on how they'll feel about the result:
If Yes, 36 per cent of people would feel "delighted", 10 per cent would be "pleased on balance", 6 per cent would have "no strong feelings either way", 13 per cent would be "disappointed on balance", and 35 per cent would feel "dismayed".
If No: 34 per cent delighted; 13 per cent pleased on balance; 10 per cent no strong feelings either way; 19 per cent disappointed on balance; 24 per cent dismayed.
Not much in it, but they conclude that (a bit unexpectedly) opponents are slightly more fervent. The 6-10% who don't much care is perhaps a cautionary note for those betting on an incredible turnout.
Over the last 48 hours I've now decided that I want Yes to win. If it had been a 60-40 thing it might have been different, but it's pretty clear at this point that a majority of Scots have no particular attachment to the UK. Most would want to leave if they could, but it's just a chunk of them are clinging to the rest of us as an economic security blanket and the subsidy from the South East. Well, in that case, I hope they sod off. I'm quite happy to send my substantial taxes north and west to support my fellow countrymen, but if they don't feel they are my countrymen then we're just being economically exploited.
I'm fed up for them to suck on the teat of the South East despite no sense of affiliation, all the while sending left-wing MPs south to up my taxes further. We're the ones that actually pay for the union, yet our conservative views are always side-lined to keep the moaning Scots onside. Our positions on things like health and education are diluted by the Celtic fringe, who vote on our systems despite it not affecting them. It's our part of the country that gets overwhelmed with immigration due to them bolstering the left wing establishment. It's our English culture that gets mocked and jeered, while our political leaders wax lyrical about the Scots. Well, I've had enough of it. I don't want them leeching off us any more for their pensions and dole checks and bank guarantees. They can leave. No tax subsidies. No currency union. No economic support while their tin pot socialist state falls into recession.
Cameron has allowed one political enemy, Salmond, to make the weather for the Yes vote - framing the questions, designing the ballot paper, changing the franchise, choosing the date. (700 years and all that despite what the Gnats say - knowledge of Bannockburn is retained). But he also allows another political enemy Brown, to stand up cry save The Union, and we'll up the spending, change the rules on taxes etc, making commitments to which his backbenchers won't like or want.
The guy is a loser, and a hopeless general. You are the weakest link, Dave, go.
Comments
Despite that I like Scotland and hope for a No. Anyone who thinks the relationship between the two countries would start off all smiles is dreaming though.
How can it be a "festival", when we have a flawed question and process, a Yes campaign built on lies, abuse and wishful thinking, a No campaign of staggering ineptitude which failed to cope with the Yes tirade or even assemble a coherent case for the Union until Gordon spoke yesterday, and voter intimidation and abuse on a scale that Putin or Mugabe would be proud of?
This is a terrible day, and whether it's a narrow Yes or a narrow No, the worst of it only begins tomorrow.
A long period of jockeying followed, with Turkey steadily expanding and Russia switching sides back and forth to catch up. Then Germany and Russia took out most of England and turned to try to stop Turkey - but too late...
The Death Match rules (no draws allowed) did affect play quite drastically (and positively) - a boring TG draw would otherwise have been likely. The attack on England was probably the fatal mistake for Germany and Russia even though it was over swiftly - it was just slow enough to enable Turkey to break through. But without that it's not clear how the game would ever have ended! I was quite happy to survive with a reasonable position (even if Germany stabbed me on the last turn to secure a good second place) after the awful start, but the honours definitely go to Andy for an urbane, steady strategy that took him all the way.
Scotland these past few weeks has been watching a politician reborn. Gordon Brown had become Britain’s forgotten prime minister, lost since his 2010 general election defeat in self-imposed exile. That was until he took centre stage to energise the unionist campaign fighting Scottish separation.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/34866df6-3e85-11e4-adef-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3DeLZqY1v
Mr. Palmer, as an observer I must say it was fascinating to watch. Although you didn't win, your revival after an early bout of narcolepsy was impressive.
Mr Salmond needs the votes of the low paid and no paid in the bleak urban landscapes of Scotland’s central belt in order to push the nationalist vote above 50 per cent. As populist politicians across Europe have learnt, these areas provide fertile ground for the divisive politics of identity and grievance.
Uncomfortable facts are easily elbowed aside by atavistic emotions and opponents shouted down. This is what seems to have been happening in parts of Scotland as voters have responded to Mr Salmond’s dog-whistle nationalism.
Roger that's enough about yourself, you're meant to tell us about the vote.
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/referendum/347170/scottish-independence-22-celebrities-pinned-colours-mast/
If Yes, 36 per cent of people would feel "delighted", 10 per cent would be "pleased on balance", 6 per cent would have "no strong feelings either way", 13 per cent would be "disappointed on balance", and 35 per cent would feel "dismayed".
If No: 34 per cent delighted; 13 per cent pleased on balance; 10 per cent no strong feelings either way; 19 per cent disappointed on balance; 24 per cent dismayed.
Not much in it, but they conclude that (a bit unexpectedly) opponents are slightly more fervent. The 6-10% who don't much care is perhaps a cautionary note for those betting on an incredible turnout.
Economic upheaval has winners as well as losers. Higher interest rates mean more for savers, a lower pound helps exports, lower house prices make for more affordable moves and stock market crashes create buying opportunities.
The world will continue to turn, and there is no day so long or so bad that it does not draw to a close.
Why hasn't he been out on the stump for the past year making the same speech across Scotland?
In hindsight, he should have led Better Together. Which should have had a better name too.
If the Union squeaks home, we all deserve to give Gordon a pat on the back. I will still be a bit miffed about "the Vow" though and the trouble it's going to cause.
Andy Murry has probably wiped £5m off his wealth at a stroke. That is definitely brave. I think it tends to say that his career is gone so he doesn't really need to worry about whether we support or him or not. He wont just lose English fans there are many in Scotland who will also see him as a traitor.
I am afraid whatever happens today it will take many years to bring the country together again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1yYDuSf3C4&feature=youtu.be
Whether or not you regard Labour to be sufficiently socialist, there have been plenty of examples to enjoy worldwide over the last 100 years. In its milder forms, it produces economic stagnation, insolvency and social breakdown, and in its more virrulent form it results in genocide.
The problem with wealth distribution has been caused by several things, including mass immigration which helps the the top and hurts the bottom (ahem), and the financial crisis.
Just a day to go before the start of Singapore practice. Could be good for Ricciardo.
It would have been brave if he'd come out a week or a month ago and stated his case. Posting at 1am, from abroad, when the media can't question him just seems the opposite of brave to me.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152786464801535&set=a.10150323084281535.388893.510691534&type=1&theater
I would think the same if he had come out for No. And far less of him if, as a public figure, he had tried to let the issue slip by without making clear his own views.
Watching that has confirmed how far away from being in any way Scottish I am!
If you are prepared to accept as socialist the likes of Pol Pot - on no better evidence than that they themselves say so - you come to such conclusions. All you really do is say: "thinking about fairness and equality drives me into such a lather that I need to lash out blindly",
FWIW I'm not a socialist, either. My objection to it is, as someone once said of something or other, not that it has been tried and found wanting, but that it has never been tried. It requires us all to be saints!
No reason why Andy Murray can't say what he thinks and it doesn't make me like him any more or less. I'd be surprised if he wasn't pro Yes after previous remarks.
As a general thought, now is the time to start putting the bitterness and rancour behind. Whatever the result we have to move on, and get along.
What colour of No rosette are you wearing?
"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man"
What does appear certain is that a significant number of voters don't decide until the morning (I've seen at least 5% quoted) and I supposed factors like the weather come into play on that. More likely is that if it's cold and wet it suppresses turnout, otherwise I fear you are clutching at straws here.
Seriously, the fundamental principle at play is that we live up to our commitment to self determination... If it's right for Falkland Islanders, Gibraltans, Latvians etc. then it's a right for the Scots. A tragedy for the Union maybe, but the rUK should wish an independent Scotland well and agree separation based on established, international principles... Going over Salmond's head to the Scottish people if need be....
We've just spent a week in Slovenia, a small country that seems to do just fine on its own. Next week we're in Montenegro, too late to report back on a country that doesn't have its own currency.
The bigger drawback of this sabbatical lark is the difficulty of placing bets overseas online. Every country seems to have its own rules. I'm sure there are technological routes round them, but I'm not savvy enough to know them.
( this sort of day you just want to be in Ludlow. )
I've seen them live!
It was all rather pleasantly 18th century :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4pWcVPUybE
I fear we are in for "interesting times" whatever the outcome. You can almost feel the silence in the Tory party as they wait the result and work out their next move, and I suspect Ed is down on bended knee praying for a No with all his might whilst figuring out how he can then sell what's been given to Scotland without screwing up the WLQ (from his viewpoint).
As for Scotland I see the "least worse" outcome if it's a No, (and that still won't be great) and a really hard bang as reality hits over the next few months if it's a Yes, as I can only see that being really ugly all round as the negotiations for separation kick in.
Don't go all SeanT on us......
Malcolm is right there is no joy amongst the No voters but a grim determination. That is probably why the sombre grey mood is probably better for No. Glasgow is eerily quiet. The seagulls are making the most noise.
What is more I would like to bet that Scotland will in fact be more unequal by the standard Gini measure (i.e. in reality) than the rest of the UK by 2020 should it become independent. That's because it would be forced to make bigger public spending cuts on any scenario not involving the oil price shooting up and so much of public spending is welfare of one kind or other.
Done?
It has driven up house prices vastly in Aberdeen itself (If you want to shock yourself go and look in the window of an estate agents up here). As a result huge numbers of people have moved out into the surrounding towns and villages. Inverurie is one big building site at the moment providing houses for people working in Aberdeen.
Given the rough weather commonly seen up here in the winter a 4x4 is rather less of a Chelsea tractor and more of a necessity.
There are seven more months until the UK general election. In that time Cameron needs to stand for something different. It is funny how a man so obsessed with modernity cannot bring himself to recognise the latest trends in politics, even when they slap him in the face. The voters want bold, not emasculated, politics. And that is one of the many lessons that Cameron should bring back from Scotland.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-week/leading-article/9315892/the-age-of-rage/
Fair enough to him, it's his democratic choice.. well it would be, if he didn't live in Surrey.
Whenever "best songs ever" discussions come up and someone mentions Bohemian sodding Rhapsody or Imagine I have to fight the urge to get all muso on their arses...
We're gaining European Britons at a rate that will fully replace the Scots in numbers within 10 years.
The arrivals are young, hard working, unaddicted to welfarism.
Now consider the departures. Ageing, desperate to give welfare to empty rooms and hugely unhappy about the UK.
We'll be fine down here in Poundland, though the change will kick up some dust for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vkYiCdn834
That would make me damned proud to be Scottish. (Love Amy Macdonald's voice.)
Mr. Away, piffle and balderdash of the first water!
My Home then Mist Covered Mountains were the pipe tunes played in rotation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtFioVh74lE
But claiming it's no more biased than the Queen's statement (which she said to one individual and which was just 'think about it carefully') is nonsense. Murray's backed one side. Fair enough, but neutral it is not.
I'm fed up for them to suck on the teat of the South East despite no sense of affiliation, all the while sending left-wing MPs south to up my taxes further. We're the ones that actually pay for the union, yet our conservative views are always side-lined to keep the moaning Scots onside. Our positions on things like health and education are diluted by the Celtic fringe, who vote on our systems despite it not affecting them. It's our part of the country that gets overwhelmed with immigration due to them bolstering the left wing establishment. It's our English culture that gets mocked and jeered, while our political leaders wax lyrical about the Scots. Well, I've had enough of it. I don't want them leeching off us any more for their pensions and dole checks and bank guarantees. They can leave. No tax subsidies. No currency union. No economic support while their tin pot socialist state falls into recession.
The guy is a loser, and a hopeless general. You are the weakest link, Dave, go.