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It’s nearly a decade since LAB last made a by-election gain – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    edited June 2022
    DavidL said:

    We are doing WAR by proxy. It's not working.
    Yeah, we need the full on, full fat, full monty: WAR. Mobilisation. Troop Trains. Internment for Remainers. Small boys running around with newspapers shouting “cor blimey it’s war guvnor”. Ladies handing out white feathers. Roger in a concentration camp doing broadcasts for the enemy. Militias forming in Kent. Rationing. Klaxons. WAR

    Certainly worked in 1939. Got rid of the last of the Depression.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,737

    I am not a member of the conservative party but I do support the 148 in their desire to remove Boris and focus on winning the next GE
    My mistake for which I apologise.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607

    It is without fundamental value, its got no real function as a currency.

    The very volatility of Bitcoin that has made it such an "investment" completely contradicts its supposed worth as a "currency".

    The technology isn't there for it to be a currency. Visa are capable of handling thousands of transactions per second, Bitcoin is capable of handling single digits of transactions per second and it does so consuming enough electricity to power a medium sized country and it couldn't possibly scale up to anything like the scale needed.

    Hence people have tried to come up with all kinds of ever more bizarre currencies etc that piggyback onto Bitcoin's blockchain but they inevitably end the supposed "decentralised" nature of it which is why when things like Luna or Celsius go bust that so many victims of the scam get taken down with it.

    The technology behind Bitcoin may have some worthwhile uses in the future. Bitcoin itself does not.
    I expect central bank digital currencies to become mainstream fairly soon. The advantages are obvious.

    The problem for crypto-currency adherents is that there’s no driving force behind owning them except the hope that “number go up” & they’ll be able to sell out to the next buyer at a higher price. On a bubble to bubble cycle that has worked out very well for early buyers, but the obvious question is: who’s left? Is there a part of the world that hasn’t bought in yet, that can still be convinced to do so? Because if not, there’s no floor under the price - the only way is all the way back down to where it started.

    Gold has actual industrial use to put a floor under the price. Crypto-currencies have nothing at all except the faith that “number go up”. Once that’s gone, the party is over.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Pulpstar said:

    Draw price isn't really moving. Is Trent bridge going to be hit by rain ?

    5 and a bit sessions for 22 wickets is a big ask on this pitch.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    Enough of this weak and piping time of peace
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Except it is not.
    It is the west supplying weapons to an independent state which has been invaded.
    Of course. But why does the truth matter? It is all about perception. If Russia is in a quagmire in Ukraine, and Ukraine keep pleading every day for more weapons; Russia cannot credibly say that it is at war with NATO. The aim is just to make things difficult for Russia.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,029
    530 for 9
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,338
    Nigelb said:

    The MBT is hardly a priority for UK defence needs.

    In terms of land forces, I'd put well in front of it replacing the 155mm artillery (the much delayed 'Mobile Fires"), and buying more MRLS - together with a lot more ammunition for both.

    Of course Rheinmetall owns 55% of the munitions production, too.
    True, but I’d say a major revision of views on the strategic battlefield value of MBTs is quite recent!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Well Bitcoin was at $28k last night, went below $25k a couple of hours ago and is now below $24k.

    24% down in the last week.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,737
    Phil said:

    I expect central bank digital currencies to become mainstream fairly soon. The advantages are obvious.

    The problem for crypto-currency adherents is that there’s no driving force behind owning them except the hope that “number go up” & they’ll be able to sell out to the next buyer at a higher price. On a bubble to bubble cycle that has worked out very well for early buyers, but the obvious question is: who’s left? Is there a part of the world that hasn’t bought in yet, that can still be convinced to do so? Because if not, there’s no floor under the price - the only way is all the way back down to where it started.

    Gold has actual industrial use to put a floor under the price. Crypto-currencies have nothing at all except the faith that “number go up”. Once that’s gone, the party is over.
    Not quite true - there is some utility in crypto being able to transform money in 1 currency / country to another currency / country outside of normal banking channels for various reasons.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,359
    Leon said:

    Enough of this weak and piping time of peace

    Can't we be like Switzerland?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Because, in spite of frequent allegations by my fellow Essex Man to the contrary, Mr G is a Conservative, and happy to draw attention of Labour 'faults'.
    To be fair, he's a 'traditional' Conservative, not a Johnsonite!
    Its incumbant upon us all to laugh at and criticise all the dodginess and allegations of dodginess and investigations into potential dodginess.
    I find BJs actions angered me, SKS misfortune i just find hilarious as hypocrites getting theirs always is.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,569
    23 to get and Anderson and Leach in.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,737
    Sandpit said:

    Well Bitcoin was at $28k last night, went below $25k a couple of hours ago and is now below $24k.

    24% down in the last week.

    Given when the Celsius announcement was made I don't think we've seen the reaction from the US yet - and that's going to add to the fun.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,481
    F1: thundery showers currently forecast for Friday. Worth keeping an eye to see if that drifts into Saturday or Sunday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,233
    MaxPB said:

    5 and a bit sessions for 22 wickets is a big ask on this pitch.
    I've locked £30 profit with £500 incoming should NZ win.
  • Phil said:

    I expect central bank digital currencies to become mainstream fairly soon. The advantages are obvious.

    The problem for crypto-currency adherents is that there’s no driving force behind owning them except the hope that “number go up” & they’ll be able to sell out to the next buyer at a higher price. On a bubble to bubble cycle that has worked out very well for early buyers, but the obvious question is: who’s left? Is there a part of the world that hasn’t bought in yet, that can still be convinced to do so? Because if not, there’s no floor under the price - the only way is all the way back down to where it started.

    Gold has actual industrial use to put a floor under the price. Crypto-currencies have nothing at all except the faith that “number go up”. Once that’s gone, the party is over.
    Precisely. Some people think its "digital gold" without realising that gold is what it is, because gold is useful.

    As time goes by, gold is becoming more useful not less too. Its very useful in modern electronic, its very useful in space and satellites too, and not just for the electronics.

    Gold has very useful physical properties for industrial uses. It can be used to store wealth, precisely because it is so useful.

    Crypto does not. Its not a store of wealth, because not only is there nothing there other than "number go up" faith but there is nothing to pay for the cost of maintaining the ecosystem. Without a means to acquire funding to maintain payments, how can it operate as a so-called "currency" even without its technical limitations as to why it doesn't work?

    There may be future uses for blockchains as a technology, but those blockchains won't be Bitcoin itself.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    One small mercy at least


    “The Duke of York will not appear in public in the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle today after a last-minute intervention by the Prince of Wales and Duke of Cambridge”

    (Times ££)

    If London Bridge should ever fall, then I predict that will be it for Andrew. He will never be seen in public, ever again
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    True, but I’d say a major revision of views on the strategic battlefield value of MBTs is quite recent!
    In the build up to Gulf One everyone sent their SF over and whoever the general in charge was said FFS I don't want any more of these units I need tanks.

    As Frank Kitson put it - the next engagement will be unforeseen.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited June 2022
    Anyone have any tips on not getting out LBW, I think my problem is that I keep unintentionally going in front of the stumps with my other leg, balance issue?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,729
    Leon said:

    Yeah, we need the full on, full fat, full monty: WAR. Mobilisation. Troop Trains. Internment for Remainers. Small boys running around with newspapers shouting “cor blimey it’s war guvnor”. Ladies handing out white feathers. Roger in a concentration camp doing broadcasts for the enemy. Militias forming in Kent. Rationing. Klaxons. WAR

    Certainly worked in 1939. Got rid of the last of the Depression.
    Worked for the US; impoverished the rest of the world for a decade or more.
    War is immensely destructive of economies, even if select groups do well out of it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rkrkrk said:

    Yerevan a bad time?
    Google says there's a brandy factory tour.
    Noto was worth the detour, thanks. Now at the pantalica necropolis which is seriously, gobekli tepe old, about to disturb the natives by disrobing for a swim
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,320
    Leon said:

    WAR
    War is the health of the state, as Bourne (Randolph not Jason) observed.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607
    eek said:

    Not quite true - there is some utility in crypto being able to transform money in 1 currency / country to another currency / country outside of normal banking channels for various reasons.

    Fair. Mostly illegal reasons of course!

    You can run the numbers on the size of the international money laundering trade, how much that might go via BTC & how long the individuals concerned will hold the BTC they use & generate a value for BTC that way.

    It’s hard to push large sums of dodgy money through BTC these days though, so I’m not sure how well that will stand up in the future.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    edited June 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Well Bitcoin was at $28k last night, went below $25k a couple of hours ago and is now below $24k.

    24% down in the last week.

    I'm not sure why people even keep track of it as though there is some kind of u/l that it should somehow relate to. It is a random walk with so many factors determining its level that it really is not worth even considering as an investment asset.
  • Anyone have any tips on not getting out LBW, I think my problem is that I keep unintentionally going in front of the stumps with my other leg, balance issue?

    Hit the ball with your bat. 😉
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,729

    True, but I’d say a major revision of views on the strategic battlefield value of MBTs is quite recent!
    Been questionable for a while - more that the balance of evidence has shifted even more dramatically against them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,233
    Jimmy's batting pushing NZ price out :D
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    eek said:

    Given when the Celsius announcement was made I don't think we've seen the reaction from the US yet - and that's going to add to the fun.
    Yup! 7am in New York now, the big selloff is probably just about to start.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,955

    I would not, I would suggest "eventually it all comes to an end" and "mortal" could be said to be synonymous with each other if you want to stretch that point, but dead means something completely different. Eventually I will come to an end (die), that is a truism, but I am not dead.

    Gold is valuable because it is useful. It is a commodity that is a useful means of wealth protection and financial exchange, only because of all its other uses. Its not just rare (something Bitcoin sought to replicate) but its useful and desired for jewellery, medals, electronics, medicines, dentistry and much more

    Behind gold there is a useful product behind it, that is why you can store wealth in gold, because you know that the gold will be worth something in the future, because in the future people will still want jewellery, medals, electronics, medicines etc

    That use does not exist for Bitcoin. All Bitcoin has a future of is more people willing to bet on the future of Bitcoin. That is a Ponzi scheme, and worse it is a negative equity one.

    Yes we expend energy digging gold out of the ground, but we don't do so purely for the sake of it, but because people have a desire for it because of its uses.

    There are sane reasons to use gold as a means of financial exchange. Bitcoin is an economically and scientifically illiterate attempt to digitise that which preys on the uneducated and greedy.
    Then let us say that you are actively willing for the current drop in price to be terminal for Bitcoin's future. (Hint: it won't be).

    The great thing about bitcoin is I remember having these exact same conversations in 2018, when the price fell from 20k to 4k....

    I look forward to having this exact same conversation with you in four years time when it plunges from 400k down to 80k, etc...

    That is the point of the bitcoin obituaries site I linked to earlier. To prove how, again and again and again, the same old talking points about bitcoin keep coming round.

    All we need now is for someone to shout "tulips!" and we have a full house.

    But all of this misses the point. Bitcoin is an attempt to fix the problem that with fiat currency that you can print bazillions of it out of thin air. Inflation always and everywhere being a monetary phenomenon, and all that.

    You can argue that gold does the job better - and I'd be behind you on that one.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607
    eek said:

    Given when the Celsius announcement was made I don't think we've seen the reaction from the US yet - and that's going to add to the fun.
    A small consolation for the state of my pension fund is the popcorn moment of watching the crypto world imploding.

    Celsius this week; Tether next?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    edited June 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    War is the health of the state, as Bourne (Randolph not Jason) observed.
    It is also the world's only hygiene, as Marinetti pointed out.

    (Shortly before the Futurists were all but wiped out in WWI thereby changing their views on the beneficial nature of war.)
  • Phil said:

    Fair. Mostly illegal reasons of course!

    You can run the numbers on the size of the international money laundering trade, how much that might go via BTC & how long the individuals concerned will hold the BTC they use & generate a value for BTC that way.

    It’s hard to push large sums of dodgy money through BTC these days though, so I’m not sure how well that will stand up in the future.
    If you wanted to design an illegal "currency" whereby your ill gotten gains can be "laundered" then designing an open system whereby if the authorities can connect one transaction to you, they can also see every transaction that wallet has ever done might not be the wisest system to design.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607
    kyf_100 said:

    Then let us say that you are actively willing for the current drop in price to be terminal for Bitcoin's future. (Hint: it won't be).

    The great thing about bitcoin is I remember having these exact same conversations in 2018, when the price fell from 20k to 4k....

    I look forward to having this exact same conversation with you in four years time when it plunges from 400k down to 80k, etc...

    That is the point of the bitcoin obituaries site I linked to earlier. To prove how, again and again and again, the same old talking points about bitcoin keep coming round.

    All we need now is for someone to shout "tulips!" and we have a full house.

    But all of this misses the point. Bitcoin is an attempt to fix the problem that with fiat currency that you can print bazillions of it out of thin air. Inflation always and everywhere being a monetary phenomenon, and all that.

    You can argue that gold does the job better - and I'd be behind you on that one.
    If BTC survives then I predict that miners will collude to change the protocol so that their inflationary seignorage continued indefinitely. It’ll cause a BTC split, but the majority will be forced to go where the mining hash power is, especially if the miners threaten to cripple any breakaway attempts by force mining 0 transaction blocks ahead of any breakaway group.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,729
    Plunder.

    https://twitter.com/expatua/status/1536296419170127873
    In the Kherson region, the Russian military is forcing the population to hand over 70% of the harvest to Crimean buyers and banning the export.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,233
    Andersen and Boult toe to toe for most runs ever by an eleven.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,425
    edited June 2022
    kyf_100 said:

    Then let us say that you are actively willing for the current drop in price to be terminal for Bitcoin's future. (Hint: it won't be).

    The great thing about bitcoin is I remember having these exact same conversations in 2018, when the price fell from 20k to 4k....

    I look forward to having this exact same conversation with you in four years time when it plunges from 400k down to 80k, etc...

    That is the point of the bitcoin obituaries site I linked to earlier. To prove how, again and again and again, the same old talking points about bitcoin keep coming round.

    All we need now is for someone to shout "tulips!" and we have a full house.

    But all of this misses the point. Bitcoin is an attempt to fix the problem that with fiat currency that you can print bazillions of it out of thin air. Inflation always and everywhere being a monetary phenomenon, and all that.

    You can argue that gold does the job better - and I'd be behind you on that one.
    Its not just that gold does the job better, gold does the job, Bitcoin does not.

    If you want to invest in digital gold, you'd be far better investing in gold digitally than "investing" in Bitcoin.

    If we do have this conversation in four years time and Bitcoin is $400k to $80k then that just again proves my point and not yours. If Bitcoin were a "currency" it wouldn't be going to $400k, the very notion you even entertain that has nothing to do with inflation and is pure "number go up" worse than Ponzi madness.

    The same reason people keep making the points about why Bitcoin is flawed, is because Bitcoin is flawed, and those criticisms were valid in the past and are valid now and may be valid in the future regardless of whatever "number" says today.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    6 needed for Jimmy to retake the all time number 11 run machine crown.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Anyone have any tips on not getting out LBW, I think my problem is that I keep unintentionally going in front of the stumps with my other leg, balance issue?

    Get outside the line of off stump and twat it to leg or back away and hit inside out. Leave blocking to the girls that open and bore everyone into the club bar.
    And be a bowler so you can respond to criticism with 'not my job pal'
    That was my 20 years cricket career in a nutshell
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,233
    Lol what a horrendous review.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Johnson has liar, Starmer has boring.

    I know which I'd rather have

    And what if Beer is found to be a boring liar?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-rule-breaches-probe-standards-watchdog-labour-leader-b1005729.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    Dura_Ace said:

    War is the health of the state, as Bourne (Randolph not Jason) observed.
    Good man

    I’m going to form a Knappers’ And Artists Bicycling and Motorists’ Battalion, like the Lombardy Cycling Futurists in the Dolomites in 1915, so that we can really take on WHOEVER THE FUCK IT IS WE’RE FIGHTING.

    You are free to join

    https://straysatellite.com/futurist/

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    All out.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    dixiedean said:

    6 needed for Jimmy to retake the all time number 11 run machine crown.

    One more catch and hes in the ultra rare 100 catches, 100 wickets, 1000 runs all rounder club
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,569
    Anderson stumped. NZ 14-0
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,192

    I do not agree at all. The responsibility lay with the aggressor. That is like trying to say that Zelensky should share the blame for Putin's actions. Besides, diplomacy is an imprecise art form. As with all aspects of leadership or difficult endeavour it is very easy to criticise in hindsight. Lord Carrington did the decent thing and resigned (remember when people used to do that?).The reality was that Mrs Thatcher took the difficult decisions to rectify the mistakes, and she had a resolve that few others would have matched.
    And after the Falklands War ended (more-or-less 40 years ago tomorrow) Mrs Thatcher resumed her Tory defence cuts, which is what prompted John Nott's walkout.
  • I hope Brillo is asked for comment on Banks losing his case
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,934
    TimS said:

    Rapid mini-collapse, Root out first over, England finish 10 behind, NZ bat until tomorrow lunch and set England a 250 target in 2 sessions, a few early wickets but then calm returns and it's a draw.
    So, part 1 of my morning's prediction fulfilled as expected (just 4 runs out). Let's see if part 2 develops for NZ in the predicted fashion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    IshmaelZ said:

    Noto was worth the detour, thanks. Now at the pantalica necropolis which is seriously, gobekli tepe old, about to disturb the natives by disrobing for a swim
    If that was aimed at me, you’re welcome. All the 8 baroque SE Sicilian towns are intriguing, some are amazing

    Just googled Pantalica Necropoli:, looks interesting - tho not quite Gobekli Tepe old. Nothing is Gobekli Tepe old (apart from Karahan Tepe and the other Tas Tepeler)

    Pantalica Necropolis dates from 13th century BC at its earliest

    Gobekli Tepe dates from eight to nine thousand years before that

  • KeystoneKeystone Posts: 127

    Get outside the line of off stump and twat it to leg or back away and hit inside out. Leave blocking to the girls that open and bore everyone into the club bar.
    And be a bowler so you can respond to criticism with 'not my job pal'
    That was my 20 years cricket career in a nutshell
    C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le cricket
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,316

    I hope Brillo is asked for comment on Banks losing his case

    It's a sad day for democracy when PB's most detested journalist wins a libel case against a Brexit hero like Mr Banks.

    Can Cruella, the nation's cleverest lawyer, intervene and assist a national treasure?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    Farooq said:

    Hahahaha, go on Arron, waste more of your money, you fucking mug
    To be fair Arron though, he is standing up for what he believes in, and is up against the entire security and British establishment as he does it, which must be scary?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    dixiedean said:

    Construction, production and services all down.
    It isn't sector based. That's not good news whichever way you slice it.
    We'll be in recession heading into winter.
    With more huge energy hikes to come.
    Retail done very well over this period considering. Explain that. As that bit is going well, Maybe CBI and Business should stop whinging about staff and skill shortages and blaming Brexit?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536
    @Pulpstar - are you cheering New Zealand wickets?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,729
    This is becoming a serious issue for F1.
    It's unlikely that there will be agreement to address it, given the competitive advantage enjoyed by the couple of team s not so badly affected.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/gasly-f1-needs-to-stop-drivers-ending-up-with-a-cane-at-30/10321682/
    ...Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton said he was "holding and biting down on my teeth due to the pain" in the race, while team boss Toto Wolff said F1 needed to find a solution to prevent possible injuries amid fears it could force drivers to skip races.

    Gasly crossed the line fifth for AlphaTauri in Baku, recording his best result of the season so far, but admitted he had never found a race to be so "brutal" through his F1 career.

    "It's not healthy, that's for sure," Gasly said. "I've had a physio session before and after every session, just because my [spinal] discs are suffering from it. You have literally no suspension. It just hits going through your spine.

    "The team is asking me, 'OK, we can compromise the setup?' and I'm compromising my health for the performance...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    To be fair Arron though, he is standing up for what he believes in, and is up against the entire security and British establishment as he does it, which must be scary?
    Ms Cadwallader is part of the establishment?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,636
    IshmaelZ said:

    Noto was worth the detour, thanks. Now at the pantalica necropolis which is seriously, gobekli tepe old, about to disturb the natives by disrobing for a swim
    Excellent.
    We didn't make it to the necropolis owing to a tyre puncture... glad to hear you had better luck.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    Sir James Anderson, GOAT
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    TOPPING said:

    It is also the world's only hygiene, as Marinetti pointed out.

    (Shortly before the Futurists were all but wiped out in WWI thereby changing their views on the beneficial nature of war.)
    Oh? Did they give their opinions via an ouija board?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,650
    Hmmm.

    Cadwalladr vs Banks.

    I think an Appeal may be likely. It seems an untidy verdict. All sorts of odds and ends left hanging out.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,316

    To be fair Arron though, he is standing up for what he believes in, and is up against the entire security and British establishment as he does it, which must be scary?
    Arron Banks is "up against the entire security and British establishment". Well it's a view. All his money might come in handy as he fights for freedom and integrity.

    I'll have a pint of whatever you're drinking please.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Nigelb said:

    This is becoming a serious issue for F1.
    It's unlikely that there will be agreement to address it, given the competitive advantage enjoyed by the couple of team s not so badly affected.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/gasly-f1-needs-to-stop-drivers-ending-up-with-a-cane-at-30/10321682/
    ...Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton said he was "holding and biting down on my teeth due to the pain" in the race, while team boss Toto Wolff said F1 needed to find a solution to prevent possible injuries amid fears it could force drivers to skip races.

    Gasly crossed the line fifth for AlphaTauri in Baku, recording his best result of the season so far, but admitted he had never found a race to be so "brutal" through his F1 career.

    "It's not healthy, that's for sure," Gasly said. "I've had a physio session before and after every session, just because my [spinal] discs are suffering from it. You have literally no suspension. It just hits going through your spine.

    "The team is asking me, 'OK, we can compromise the setup?' and I'm compromising my health for the performance...

    It’s a difficult conundrum for teams, drivers and regulators.

    Obviously no-one wants to get injured, but at the same time the drivers are happy to put up with quite a lot of discomfort if it makes the car go faster.

    There were reports of 6g vertical loadings on the Mercedes when it was porpoising, which is on the limit of what you’d want to experience as a human, even an athletic one.

    Lewis is closer to 40 than 30, and age eventually wins over fitness. He managed to get through the race on adrenaline yesterday, but was clearly in quite a state when that stopped as he crossed the line. I guess the next couple of days will be key for him, and if he’s fit to get back in the car on Friday in Canada, he won’t care that it takes some time to recover from scoring points. A busy week for Angela his trainer, she’s actually a physiotherapist which will come in useful.

    That said, if he isn’t fully fit, they’ll have to raise the ride height of the car and sacrifice performance for comfort. Canada’s a temporary park track, and bumpy. Amazingly, six of the first nine races this season have been on streets or around parks, the worst possible conditions in which to have an issue like porpoising. They’ll all be happy to see Silverstone and the more permanent circuits that follow. .

    Danny Ric (33 in a couple of weeks) was also complaining yesterday. The younger drivers seem more comfortable for now, but at what cost later in their careers?

    Not an easy one for the FIA either. They clearly don’t want to see drivers injured, but also don’t want to frame a rule in a way that discriminates against the cars that don’t suffer as much from the porpoising issue. Perhaps they issue a limit of 5g vertical acceleration under porpoising, although measuring this accurately on a bumpy track may not be easy.

    Baku is also something of an outlier, having a very high top speed for a street circuit. Top speed in Canada will be lower, so perhaps there’s actually no need to change anything until this time next year?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    Yeah, we need the full on, full fat, full monty: WAR. Mobilisation. Troop Trains. Internment for Remainers. Small boys running around with newspapers shouting “cor blimey it’s war guvnor”. Ladies handing out white feathers. Roger in a concentration camp doing broadcasts for the enemy. Militias forming in Kent. Rationing. Klaxons. WAR

    Certainly worked in 1939. Got rid of the last of the Depression.
    Mr Johnson has fluffed the chance to bring in rationing. "Food Strategy" [sic] as per leak, admittedly not final form one imagines.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,729
    edited June 2022

    Sir James Anderson, GOAT

    Modern day Syd Barnes - who declined an England recall at the age of 47, and played first class cricket in his fifties.

    I'd probably pick Barnes in a best ever 11.
  • KeystoneKeystone Posts: 127
    Nigelb said:

    Worked for the US; impoverished the rest of the world for a decade or more.
    War is immensely destructive of economies, even if select groups do well out of it.
    Only attractive for those who have never seen the effects close up.

    To say nothing of the depressing likelihood that wars between nuclear armed states will result in far greater unpleasantness with a half-life of several thousand years.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    Carnyx said:

    Ms Cadwallader is part of the establishment?
    Are you so naïve - don’t you ever watch these shows where “they” leak to a journalist who will be keen to run with what they are leaking?

    Have a pint of reality, Mexi Pete.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    Carnyx said:

    Oh? Did they give their opinions via an ouija board?
    Somehow Marinetti staggered on until 1944, presumably much to his own disappointment.
  • MattW said:

    Hmmm.

    Cadwalladr vs Banks.

    I think an Appeal may be likely. It seems an untidy verdict. All sorts of odds and ends left hanging out.

    Am I right in thinking that the verdict basically says that Carole was speaking codswallop, but that even people who speak codswallop have a right to free speech?

    If so, it seems an all round good verdict?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Are you so naïve - don’t you ever watch these shows where “they” leak to a journalist who will be keen to run with what they are leaking?

    Have a pint of reality, Mexi Pete.
    I think you have me confused with another gent.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Always knew you were an ETH man.
    ETH is a double sack of shit.

    "Code is law". Lol. Get the fuck out of here.
  • KeystoneKeystone Posts: 127

    To be fair Arron though, he is standing up for what he believes in, and is up against the entire security and British establishment as he does it, which must be scary?
    You are a quite unusual LibDem in your sympathies, I'll give you that.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    eek said:


    Peter Schiff
    @PeterSchiff
    With #Bitcoin dropping below key support at $25K and #Ethereum below 1300, the combined market cap of nearly 20K #cryptos has broken below $1 trillion, from a record-high of $3 trillion. That's $2 trillion down, $1 trillion left to go. The last trillion will be the most painful.

    Good riddance to bad rubbish.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,216
    Nigelb said:

    This is becoming a serious issue for F1.
    It's unlikely that there will be agreement to address it, given the competitive advantage enjoyed by the couple of team s not so badly affected.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/gasly-f1-needs-to-stop-drivers-ending-up-with-a-cane-at-30/10321682/
    ...Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton said he was "holding and biting down on my teeth due to the pain" in the race, while team boss Toto Wolff said F1 needed to find a solution to prevent possible injuries amid fears it could force drivers to skip races.

    Gasly crossed the line fifth for AlphaTauri in Baku, recording his best result of the season so far, but admitted he had never found a race to be so "brutal" through his F1 career.

    "It's not healthy, that's for sure," Gasly said. "I've had a physio session before and after every session, just because my [spinal] discs are suffering from it. You have literally no suspension. It just hits going through your spine.

    "The team is asking me, 'OK, we can compromise the setup?' and I'm compromising my health for the performance...

    I'm rather surprised that rough running, to that point, is quicker. Why is that?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited June 2022

    And after the Falklands War ended (more-or-less 40 years ago tomorrow) Mrs Thatcher resumed her Tory defence cuts, which is what prompted John Nott's walkout.
    As I recall, and as I read more recently, Portsmouth Royal Dockyard was in the process of [edit] being very substantially reduced when the war began - at which the entire workforce rallied round. Not that it did them much good once the war was over.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    Ffs even the investigations into SKS are boring.
    Late registration of football tickets and director box gifts and failure to declare a few hundred quid book income.
    What a dull c***
    He has written to apologise for the 'oversight'
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,338
    edited June 2022

    Am I right in thinking that the verdict basically says that Carole was speaking codswallop, but that even people who speak codswallop have a right to free speech?

    If so, it seems an all round good verdict?
    I got a 'Banks is such a prick it's actually quite difficult to defame him' vibe. We will all take what we want to from this, as ever.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607

    I'm rather surprised that rough running, to that point, is quicker. Why is that?
    I think it lets them run the car closer to the ground, which improves the aerodynamics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,216
    TOPPING said:

    Somehow Marinetti staggered on until 1944, presumably much to his own disappointment.
    ¡Muera la inteligencia! ¡Viva la Muerte!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    I'm rather surprised that rough running, to that point, is quicker. Why is that?
    They want to be as close to the ground as possible, for aerodynamic reasons that gives them a higher cornering speed. Go too low though, and the airflow stalls under the car at high speed, which causes the bouncing.

    They can ease the driver discomfort by raising the ride height of the car, but that costs cornering speed.

    Professional drivers have a very high adrenaline-fuelled tolerance for pain, if it means the car goes faster!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,650
    edited June 2022

    Am I right in thinking that the verdict basically says that Carole was speaking codswallop, but that even people who speak codswallop have a right to free speech?

    If so, it seems an all round good verdict?
    I haven't read all 400 paras. I'd say the introductory sections and the conclusions are worth the time. This in Press Gazette is said to be the best report:

    https://pressgazette.co.uk/carole-cadwalladr-arron-banks-libel/

    I find parts of the judge's reasoning peculiar, with some strange category judgements.

    Full Judgement here:
    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Banks-v-Cadwalladr-130622-Judgment.pdf
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607

    Am I right in thinking that the verdict basically says that Carole was speaking codswallop, but that even people who speak codswallop have a right to free speech?

    If so, it seems an all round good verdict?
    I /think/ the summary is:

    1) Carole was entitled to believe that her statement was true at the time she made it, due to the many examples of Banks’ contact with Russian officials & his statements about those meetings that were, at best, inaccurate (all this detailed in the judgement).
    2) When those statements were later demonstrated to be untrue, under the interpretation of their meaning decided by the court, the video should have been taken down as libellous, but wasn’t.

    Carole relied on a public interest defense for the first part, which was rightly upheld. For the latter, the court seems to have decided that any subsequent impact on Banks’ reputation was not sufficient to justify a settlement being imposed.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Your challenge, should you choose to accept it is to tel me which one is the Tesla YTD Price graph and which one is the Bitcoin YTD graph




  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,709
    tlg86 said:

    Form the summary:

    The Judge accepted that, for the most part, Mr Banks’s evidence was truthful, and in particular his evidence on the issue of serious harm was open, honest and entailed no exaggeration [27]. But there were aspects of his evidence in relation to the public interest defence that the Judge found to be evasive and lacking in candour [28].

    Ms Cadwalladr evidently found the process of being cross-examined very stressful [30]-[31]. Although she made errors in her statement ([35]-[43]), and in her oral evidence [44], and over the course of her evidence became more evasive, the Judge found that the evidence Ms Cadwalladr gave was truthful [32]-[33].


    I think it's generous to say Carole made "errors" in her statement:

    https://order-order.com/2022/01/20/new-carole-cadwalladr-admits-minutes-after-swearing-that-her-witness-statement-true-that-it-is-inaccurate/
    The thing is it’s the judge’s view that counts, not yours.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Alistair said:

    Your challenge, should you choose to accept it is to tel me which one is the Tesla YTD Price graph and which one is the Bitcoin YTD graph




    LOL!

    (Tesla is the bottom one).
  • eekeek Posts: 29,737
    Alistair said:

    Your challenge, should you choose to accept it is to tel me which one is the Tesla YTD Price graph and which one is the Bitcoin YTD graph




    Bottom is Telsa - but that's only because the US markets don't open for another hour.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,709

    It’s only the fact we stopped doing the testing programme that unluckily tipped us into the red.

    There’s only two news stories today, government tidying up of the EUs Brexit mess and Sir Beer Korma under investigation for more criminality and greed. The fact governments policy dealing with illegal migration has been damaged by left winger is tomorrows news story. Nothing else to see here, move along now.
    Manufacturing and construction were both in the red, which are unrelated to the testing programme.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536

    The thing is it’s the judge’s view that counts, not yours.
    Absolutely! :)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    eek said:

    Bottom is Telsa - but that's only because the US markets don't open for another hour.
    Yah, I should have trimmed off the last couple of days - made it rather obvious.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    Alistair said:

    Your challenge, should you choose to accept it is to tel me which one is the Tesla YTD Price graph and which one is the Bitcoin YTD graph




    Is the abscissa/ordinate intersection at y=0?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,786
    Were I the judge, I would take into account:

    a) the huge amount of vitriol that Banks has tweeted against his opponents over many years, much of it loosely based on evidence; and
    b) the fact that he is a complete knob,

    and rule against him.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,320
    Sandpit said:



    Baku is also something of an outlier, having a very high top speed for a street circuit. Top speed in Canada will be lower, so perhaps there’s actually no need to change anything until this time next year?

    It'd be very easy to fix if the regulations didn't restrict them to incredibly crude suspension technology. Twin tube dampers, torsion bars, etc. Apart from the materials none of that would be out of place on an 80s F1 car. With active suspension it would relatively simple to dial out the porpoising.

    All they could do without ripping up the entire suspension rulebook is maybe ban heave springs which would force the teams to run more ride height and/or less spring rate.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    FIFA World Cup Group B - Winner

    England 4/11
    Wales 6/1
    USA 7/1
    Iran 20/1
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,458

    And what if Beer is found to be a boring liar?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-rule-breaches-probe-standards-watchdog-labour-leader-b1005729.html
    Evgeniy Lebedev gets in on the act. The plot thickens......
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,259

    I hope Brillo is asked for comment on Banks losing his case

    Mad cat lady has claws...
  • Alistair said:

    Your challenge, should you choose to accept it is to tel me which one is the Tesla YTD Price graph and which one is the Bitcoin YTD graph




    My guess would be the top one is the Bitcoin YTD graph due to the more vertical drop at the end, which is part of the conversation today.

    I respect Musk in general but linking Tesla with Bitcoin was weird, especially due to how environmentally unfriendly Bitcoin is whereas Tesla is meant to be the opposite.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited June 2022
    Alistair said:

    Your challenge, should you choose to accept it is to tel me which one is the Tesla YTD Price graph and which one is the Bitcoin YTD graph




    Amusing, but you could replace the Tesla graph with that of the S&P 500 and it would make very little difference to the difficulty. Possibly it's even harder.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,259

    To be fair Arron though, he is standing up for what he believes in, and is up against the entire security and British establishment as he does it, which must be scary?
    Perhaps there is a reason that Banks isn't popular with the British security establishment?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    Keystone said:

    You are a quite unusual LibDem in your sympathies, I'll give you that.
    What bit about going up against the establishment as scary thing to do, is untrue though?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Dura_Ace said:

    It'd be very easy to fix if the regulations didn't restrict them to incredibly crude suspension technology. Twin tube dampers, torsion bars, etc. Apart from the materials none of that would be out of place on an 80s F1 car. With active suspension it would relatively simple to dial out the porpoising.

    All they could do without ripping up the entire suspension rulebook is maybe ban heave springs which would force the teams to run more ride height and/or less spring rate.
    Oh indeed. It’s only a hard problem because the regulations have made it so.

    Cars with active ride height would be stunningly quick though - which is why they banned it in the first place!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,729

    I'm rather surprised that rough running, to that point, is quicker. Why is that?
    You have to run ground effect cars low to create maximum downforce, which is what gives speed round the bends.
    Some teams have minimised porpoising; others haven't. It's not a trivial fix, as the physics of phenomenon complex, and thus poorly understood.
This discussion has been closed.