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The Tories go on the offensive in T&H – politicalbetting.com

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,022
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good Tory leaflet in Tiverton and Honiton. It is a Leave voting and traditional Tory area and hitting the LDs hard on their opposition to Brexit and tighter border controls and tougher prison sentences will go down well there. Also ensures the literature is not all one way from the Liberals.

    The Conservative candidate is a well known local woman and I think has a chance of holding the seat which the Tories won with 60% of the vote in 2019. Most Labour voters will tactically vote LD anyway, to have a chance of holding on the Tories need to keep their core vote and get them out to vote

    You do know that is nonsense don't you. Most leaflets are not read. They last 10 seconds from the door to the bin. The impact is getting a leaflet. A nice big yellow one with Lib Dem plastered over the top of it.

    So for everyone reading the Tory lies on it, 20 will register another LD leaflet and lack of one from the Tories.
    In 20 seconds anyone receiving it will read the LDs want to reverse Brexit, voted against plans to strengthen our borders, voted against tougher sentences, want higher fuel duty and would put Labour in government now.

    Even if they put it in the bin a minute after receiving it
    “ In 20 seconds anyone receiving it will read the LDs want to reverse Brexit‘

    So what of Boris election promise to us to move us on from Brexit splits, to unite the country again. Is that no longer considered as important if Brexit still weaponised as this by the government?

    Surely the Tories need everyone back inside the same tent again, Brexit fissure healed, more than any other party, or Boris really will leave a dangerous culture change for his successors?

    Do you see my point HY, you are supporting someone weaponising Brexit still, when you should be pleading with them not to, as it’s not in Conservative Party interests in the long run to be doing this still rather than healing the angry fissure.

    Brexit fissure - don’t scratch the itch - heal it!

    Don’t you care about the Conservative Party in post Boris future like MarqueeMark and so many other PB Tories do? 🤷‍♀️
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 427
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    My work has told people to start including the information - even if they are working exactly the same hours as pre-covid. Before now your email would have just sat unread for a day or two and you'd be none the wiser.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,489
    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    Applicant said:

    IanB2 said:

    Our Emma has apparently retired from the Nottingham Open?

    Whoever knew there even was such a thing?

    Tennis fans. It's a fairly important warmup for Wimbledon, since the grass court season has been reduced to the square root of bugger all.
    We have three weeks between the French and Wimbledon. It used to be two.
    I'm not a particular tennis fan, but I have been to the Nottingham Open. All I can remember about it was that it was bloody cold - the sort of cold you can only get in June, because you're doing an activity scheduled for warm weather.
    IIRC, other warmups for Wimbledon used to (and may still) include Queen's club, Brighton (I think?) and Manchester, though the latter has surely long fallen by the wayside.
    I think it's Eastbourne rather than Brighton.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    Applicant said:

    IanB2 said:

    Our Emma has apparently retired from the Nottingham Open?

    Whoever knew there even was such a thing?

    Tennis fans. It's a fairly important warmup for Wimbledon, since the grass court season has been reduced to the square root of bugger all.
    We have three weeks between the French and Wimbledon. It used to be two.
    I'm not a particular tennis fan, but I have been to the Nottingham Open. All I can remember about it was that it was bloody cold - the sort of cold you can only get in June, because you're doing an activity scheduled for warm weather.
    IIRC, other warmups for Wimbledon used to (and may still) include Queen's club, Brighton (I think?) and Manchester, though the latter has surely long fallen by the wayside.
    Eastbourne is, I think, what you're thinking of for Brighton. There's also one in Birmingham, plus Halle in Germany. And that's basically it for Tour-level grass events.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,937

    Leon said:

    Johnson not the only one to tell lies:

    Wow, Scholz now with a very bold statement that won't survive a fact check:

    "We will continue to support Ukraine with arms deliveries. Germany is doing this MORE INTENSIVELY THAN ALMOST ANYONE ELSE & will continue support as long as it's necessary to repel 🇷🇺 aggression."

    (My 50 cent: Saying this in the Baltics, whose support for Ukraine in relation to GDP absolutely dwarfs Germany, sounds pretty arrogant. Also in total terms other countries have delivered more weapons; and heavy 🇩🇪 weapons still have to arrive to 🇺🇦)

    ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-aga…


    https://twitter.com/vonderburchard/status/1534121099604029440

    It's also bullshit in terms of refugees. Poland, Moldova, the Baltics, etc, have all taken way more refugees per capita. Poland has taken more in absolute terms

    I can't work out if Scholz is simply inept, or actively mendacious and malign
    He's a German politician. Its the latter with intent and the former by nature.
    Have you lived there worked there or just read lots about the place?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,804
    edited June 7

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,180
    Applicant said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Do explain.
    Many businesses - including those I work in - have seen an increase in productivity since people started working from home rather than a reduction. I was working from home for most of the time for years before covid and once the initial setup issues were dealt with the company bosses found people were far more responsive and they got far better results in a shorter time from people working remotely. The loss of time due to commuting alone is massive and the ability to work more flexibly has greatly improved both the morale and the productivity as measured by quicker turn around of reports.

    This is real world experience rather than theoretical HR rubbish.
    Ok well that's very good. My experience is the opposite though. My team's productivity dropped by I'd guess 50% when working from home. I personally found myself to be pretty hopeless.

    For me WFH works amazingly well sometimes - such as when you just need to focus on some particular thing, but I think it's awful in general.
    My experience has been that there have been times when I'm more productive and times when I'm less. Overall, it's a wash - but the lack of human contact is a major problem.
    There will clearly be a range of experience. I didn't really expect myself to be at an extreme though.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,116
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    My work has told people to start including the information - even if they are working exactly the same hours as pre-covid. Before now your email would have just sat unread for a day or two and you'd be none the wiser.
    It's the kind of unconcious adaptation that helps make remote/flexible/hybrid working work better. If people aren't in the office all the time, it's helpful to know when they are going to be working so that you know when a reply might happen.

    But it also highlights the political problem. The issue here isn't someone working from home, it's someone working part-time. A lot of the moaning about WFH is really about other stuff- often employers being unwilling or unable to fully staff certain bits of their business.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Applicant said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    Applicant said:

    IanB2 said:

    Our Emma has apparently retired from the Nottingham Open?

    Whoever knew there even was such a thing?

    Tennis fans. It's a fairly important warmup for Wimbledon, since the grass court season has been reduced to the square root of bugger all.
    We have three weeks between the French and Wimbledon. It used to be two.
    I'm not a particular tennis fan, but I have been to the Nottingham Open. All I can remember about it was that it was bloody cold - the sort of cold you can only get in June, because you're doing an activity scheduled for warm weather.
    IIRC, other warmups for Wimbledon used to (and may still) include Queen's club, Brighton (I think?) and Manchester, though the latter has surely long fallen by the wayside.
    Eastbourne is, I think, what you're thinking of for Brighton. There's also one in Birmingham, plus Halle in Germany. And that's basically it for Tour-level grass events.
    I looked it up on Wikipedia to get the full list.

    ATP

    This week: 's-Hertogenbosch or Stuttgart
    Next week: Queen's or Halle
    w/c 20th: Eastbourne or Mallorca

    WTA

    This week: 's-Hertogenbosch or Nottingham
    Next week: Berlin or Birmingham
    w/c 20th: Eastbourne or Bad Homburg

    The ATP is worse than the WTA as their two higher-level events are in the same week.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 42,730
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    We have two very sound economists on here. One who sleeps with the angels* the other who doesn't but I've just had a very enlightening lesson as I followed Bartholomew and OnlyLivingBoy trying patiently to explain some basics to Leon.

    To be fair the subtlety of GDP and GDP per annum was something I also didn't understand but unlike Leon who was last seen still arguing the point at least I do now!

    * A lefty

    As we said, GDP is a flow and trying to understand it and its nuances properly is like the economic equivalent of fluid dynamics, difficult but not that interesting to most people.

    image
    Except, Ellwood did not say "a year". I was right

    If Roger hadn't added that "a year", coz he misheard (or misunderstood?), then there would have been no argument and none of us would have wasted fifteen bloody hours

    Have we taken a permanent hit of 4% to our economic output? Quite possibly. Brexit is a drag. Tho it is extremely hard to be precise because of huge confounding factors, namely Plague and War
    He didn't need to say "a year" because it is tautologically redundant.

    Just as the words I just used, all tautologies are redundant.
    Arguably adding "each year" clarifies the statement as it indicates that the stated effect is permanent rather than a one-off.
    I think Leon's confusion stems from a failure to appreciate that GDP is a flow concept like income, not a stock concept like wealth. This is a mistake made by a surprisingly large number of people. The level of basic economic knowledge, and indeed basic numeracy, in this country is shocking sometimes. In my more charitable moments I imagine that this is probably why the PM keeps lying about things - he genuinely has no concept of numbers. I wonder what his highest STEM qualification is?
    Continuously saying "Look here, I'm an economist!" does not make you right

    Adding the deeply misleading and absurd phrase "a year" to Ellwood's quite plausible (tho highly contentious) claim that we have suffered a permanent reduction of 4% in GDP , thanks to Brexit, turned Ellwood's remark into a statement that we are losing 4% a year, every year

    This is fun!

    This exchange is starting to make me think about the wrestling a pig quotation. But I will try again.
    GDP is a flow variable. If it is permanently 4% lower than it would have been otherwise then it is 4% lower *every year* versus that counterfactual.
    Do you disagree with the statement above?
    Again, I'm talking about English, not economics. Nobody talks about GDP like this in terms of loss or gain. No one adds the words "a year" because it is misleading, and it is construed as a further, additional loss. Which is why Ellwood didn't say it

    Put it another way. If you lose a leg in 2018, your ability to run around is permanently impaired by, say, 40%. Every year after 2018 that will be true. 40% impairment. Yet no one in this situation says "I break a leg every year"

    I'm starting to see the buzz that @HYUFD gets
    A leg is a stock variable not a flow variable so your analogy is garbage.
    OK let's take @williamglenn's example

    If Brexit had permanently boosted our productive capacity by 4%, would you say "Brexit means we gain 4% GDP a year"?

    Well, would you?
    Yes. I would probably say "each year" not "a year".
    hahahahahahha

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    aHEM

    Nah, fuck it

    ahahahahahahHAHAHAHAAAURGHSPqw'lirpo1

    HAH
    Was that your legs falling off for the afternoon ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738
    edited June 7

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Two heavy by-election defeats coming: in both Red Wall and Blue Wall. If tory MPs didn't have the gumption to administer the coup de grace, the voters will.

    A right-left sucker punch that would have made Muhammed Ali proud.

    Wakefield is red wall ie a normally Labour Leave Northern or Midlands or Welsh seat that went Tory in 2019.

    Tiverton and Honiton however isn't really blue wall ie a normally Tory Remain seat in the Home Counties which the LDs should see as a top target eg Chesham and Amersham. It should demographically as a Tory Leave seat be as strong Tory as Labour Remain seats are still strong Labour
    I am really, really, really, looking forward to your confidence about Boris being shown to fail at the next General Election. You are in for a complete shock.

    In the meantime, the idea that Tiverton & Honiton is not Blue Wall is an absolute joke. Seriously. Even in the 1997 New Labour landslide, it still returned a Conservative.

    It was 56% Leave which is not stonkingly leave and reflects the rural, farming, sensibilities at that time in the south-west. It's a strongly right-wing constituency:
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Tiverton and Honiton

    It's proper full-on farming country. It has never returned anything other than a true blue tory.

    Recent majorities have been 20,000 on a 60% vote share.

    If Tiverton & Honiton falls at a General Election then the Conservatives will have under 84 seats left in Parliament!!!!!
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
    Tiverton & Honiton is to the Blue Wall as Liverpool Walton is to the Red Wall - a long way behind the front line.
    It won't save it.
    Tories wont bother turning out. It will of course revert at the GE but for the by election there is no impetus to show up
    Give a new local MP 2 years to make their mark. Throw in Johnson still clinging to power like a shipwrecked sailor on a burning plank and no resolution to the energy or cost of living issues and I would not be at all surprised to see the Lib Dems retaining the seat at the next GE.

    And, of course, for the record I am not pumping them up as I don't support the Lib Dems at all. It just seems complacent to think it will revert just because it is supposedly a Tory seat.
    In 1993 the Tories lost Christchurch to the LDs in a by election but won it back at the 1997 general election. In 2016 the Tories lost Richmond Park to the LDs at a by election but won it back at the 2017 general election. In summer 2019 the Tories lost Brecon and Radnor to the LDs in a by election but won it back in the December general election. It often happens
    Alan Beith won Berwick in a by-election in 1973, by 57 votes.
    The Tories didn't win it back until he stood down in 2015.
    Berwick was also Liberal from 1935 to 1945, well before Beith won it
    Richmond and B&R have much more recent Liberal history than that, yet you saw them fit to quote as examples.
    Tiverton and Honiton however voted Leave and they and their predecessor seats have always had a Tory MP since 1918 at every general election, albeit Tiverton did have a Liberal MP once at a 1923 by election before going Tory again at the general election after
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 42,730
    I see HYUFD believes that ordinary folk read election leaflets. Door to bin, unexamined, is the normal course of things.
    They might notice whom it's from and get mildly irritated. If you're lucky.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,175
    Aslan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    In my experience, opponents of WFH are the ones that insist on complete working in office without any evidence base.

    If you insist on everyone working in the office all of the time you are going to struggle to hire and keep the top talent - unless you pay absolute premium wages.

  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Do explain.
    Many businesses - including those I work in - have seen an increase in productivity since people started working from home rather than a reduction. I was working from home for most of the time for years before covid and once the initial setup issues were dealt with the company bosses found people were far more responsive and they got far better results in a shorter time from people working remotely. The loss of time due to commuting alone is massive and the ability to work more flexibly has greatly improved both the morale and the productivity as measured by quicker turn around of reports.

    This is real world experience rather than theoretical HR rubbish.

    Very similar with us. However, it does vary by department. IT, sales and marketing need to be together a lot more than the content creators, who can work individually. What's more a lot of the younger staff members actively want to be together no matter what they do: they live in smaller places, are generally more social and are learning their jobs. By contrast, I have not been into the office since February 2020!

    We have decided not to take up the option of extending the lease on the building we moved into in 2019 and which was designed to accommodate 450 or so people. Instead, we are moving into a place nearby that houses about 250. That will work fine for us.

    If you are running a business and you want to attract and retain the best people, you need to offer a level of flexibility. Dogmatism is so pre-pandemic. If businesses (and the civil service) don't want to do it, they will end up paying a price. But that is their choice, I guess.

    The biggest damage in working from home is the reduced level of apprenticeship of junior colleagues. That is something that was often not really tracked or measured historically and firms need to get a lot more focused on doing it.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 8,227
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Final thought on this GDP conversation, lets switch to another flow example - petrol is about 50p a litre more expensive than it was previously.

    That doesn't mean it that the first litre I buy is 50p more expensive, then the rest return to the same price, it means every litre is 50p more expensive.

    If GDP takes a 4% hit then that means every year's GDP is 4% lower unless something changes that in the future, not just this years, just as every litre is 50p more expensive not just the first one.

    If that doesn't explain it to you Leon, I don't know what else can. Have fun everybody.

    EACH year, @BartholomewRoberts, EACH year


    So you should say "each time I buy it, petrol is 50p more expensive" and, of course, everyone would understand you mean there has been just one price rise of 50p which you moan about EACH time you go to the Esso garage. No one, BUT NO ONE, would foolishly mIsinterpret your words and think OMG, PETROL IS GOING UP 50P A LITRE PRACTICALLY EVERY WEEK, @BartholomewRoberts TOLD ME!
    Good god. That is a flow measured in litres so 50p a litre is accurate.

    GDP is a flow measured in years, so a year is accurate.
    So if you were describing a one-off 50p fuel-price rise to worried friends, you would say: "each time I buy it, petrol is 50p more expensive" ?



    That's not the sentence used. I might say that post Covid and the Ukraine war has made petrol 50p a litre more expensive. That is true, the 50p is there every litre.

    Similarly if there are any permanent Brexit effects on GDP then as they are permanent they are there every year. Let's imagine the Brexit permanently makes British GDP £100bn better off rather than worse off, I would say that is a change of GDP of £100bn "a year", that means £100bn every year, it doesn't mean £100bn this year, £200bn next year and so on.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,112
    This photo from the 1922 yesterday is a work of art; the Victorians would have loved it


    https://twitter.com/StefanRousseau/status/1533909061732802562?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good Tory leaflet in Tiverton and Honiton. It is a Leave voting and traditional Tory area and hitting the LDs hard on their opposition to Brexit and tighter border controls and tougher prison sentences will go down well there. Also ensures the literature is not all one way from the Liberals.

    The Conservative candidate is a well known local woman and I think has a chance of holding the seat which the Tories won with 60% of the vote in 2019. Most Labour voters will tactically vote LD anyway, to have a chance of holding on the Tories need to keep their core vote and get them out to vote

    You do know that is nonsense don't you. Most leaflets are not read. They last 10 seconds from the door to the bin. The impact is getting a leaflet. A nice big yellow one with Lib Dem plastered over the top of it.

    So for everyone reading the Tory lies on it, 20 will register another LD leaflet and lack of one from the Tories.
    In 20 seconds anyone receiving it will read the LDs want to reverse Brexit, voted against plans to strengthen our borders, voted against tougher sentences, want higher fuel duty and would put Labour in government now.

    Even if they put it in the bin a minute after receiving it
    “ In 20 seconds anyone receiving it will read the LDs want to reverse Brexit‘

    So what of Boris election promise to us to move us on from Brexit splits, to unite the country again. Is that no longer considered as important if Brexit still weaponised as this by the government?

    Surely the Tories need everyone back inside the same tent again, Brexit fissure healed, more than any other party, or Boris really will leave a dangerous culture change for his successors?

    Do you see my point HY, you are supporting someone weaponising Brexit still, when you should be pleading with them not to, as it’s not in Conservative Party interests in the long run to be doing this still rather than healing the angry fissure.

    Brexit fissure - don’t scratch the itch - heal it!

    Don’t you care about the Conservative Party in post Boris future like MarqueeMark and so many other PB Tories do? 🤷‍♀️
    If it was not for Brexit being a key issue the Tories likely would not have won a majority in 2019
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good Tory leaflet in Tiverton and Honiton. It is a Leave voting and traditional Tory area and hitting the LDs hard on their opposition to Brexit and tighter border controls and tougher prison sentences will go down well there. Also ensures the literature is not all one way from the Liberals.

    The Conservative candidate is a well known local woman and I think has a chance of holding the seat which the Tories won with 60% of the vote in 2019. Most Labour voters will tactically vote LD anyway, to have a chance of holding on the Tories need to keep their core vote and get them out to vote

    You do know that is nonsense don't you. Most leaflets are not read. They last 10 seconds from the door to the bin. The impact is getting a leaflet. A nice big yellow one with Lib Dem plastered over the top of it.

    So for everyone reading the Tory lies on it, 20 will register another LD leaflet and lack of one from the Tories.
    In 20 seconds anyone receiving it will read the LDs want to reverse Brexit, voted against plans to strengthen our borders, voted against tougher sentences, want higher fuel duty and would put Labour in government now.

    Even if they put it in the bin a minute after receiving it
    “ In 20 seconds anyone receiving it will read the LDs want to reverse Brexit‘

    So what of Boris election promise to us to move us on from Brexit splits, to unite the country again. Is that no longer considered as important if Brexit still weaponised as this by the government?

    Surely the Tories need everyone back inside the same tent again, Brexit fissure healed, more than any other party, or Boris really will leave a dangerous culture change for his successors?

    Do you see my point HY, you are supporting someone weaponising Brexit still, when you should be pleading with them not to, as it’s not in Conservative Party interests in the long run to be doing this still rather than healing the angry fissure.

    Brexit fissure - don’t scratch the itch - heal it!

    Don’t you care about the Conservative Party in post Boris future like MarqueeMark and so many other PB Tories do? 🤷‍♀️
    If it was not for Brexit being a key issue the Tories likely would not have won a majority in 2019
    True, but not for the reason you think.

    If Brexit wasn't a key issue there wouldn't even have been a 2019 election...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 42,730
    edited June 7
    TBF, for this PM he's not wrong.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJCrace/status/1534151660834103296
    Michael Ellis speaking for govt on standards in public life. Main argument is that it’s far too much to expect PM to obey the law and tell the truth

    His claim that Boris 'enhances' the office of PM, is perhaps a stretch, though.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson not the only one to tell lies:

    Wow, Scholz now with a very bold statement that won't survive a fact check:

    "We will continue to support Ukraine with arms deliveries. Germany is doing this MORE INTENSIVELY THAN ALMOST ANYONE ELSE & will continue support as long as it's necessary to repel 🇷🇺 aggression."

    (My 50 cent: Saying this in the Baltics, whose support for Ukraine in relation to GDP absolutely dwarfs Germany, sounds pretty arrogant. Also in total terms other countries have delivered more weapons; and heavy 🇩🇪 weapons still have to arrive to 🇺🇦)

    ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-aga…


    https://twitter.com/vonderburchard/status/1534121099604029440

    It's also bullshit in terms of refugees. Poland, Moldova, the Baltics, etc, have all taken way more refugees per capita. Poland has taken more in absolute terms

    I can't work out if Scholz is simply inept, or actively mendacious and malign
    He's a German politician. Its the latter with intent and the former by nature.
    Have you lived there worked there or just read lots about the place?
    Lol.
    Are you asking me if i'm qualified to post a light hearted broad brush criticism of German politicians and, by extension, the German response to Ukraine?
    No, no i am not. Sue me.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122
    In the US, I saw that Milo Yiannopoulos is now working as an intern for Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    That's right: the alt right "commentator" who got into trouble for saying paedophilia was ok, is not working for someone who believes senior Democrats run a paedophile ring.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,244
    Nigelb said:

    I see HYUFD believes that ordinary folk read election leaflets. Door to bin, unexamined, is the normal course of things.
    They might notice whom it's from and get mildly irritated. If you're lucky.

    To be fair I look forward to, and always read, an MLP one or one from a local nutter.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,937
    algarkirk said:

    This photo from the 1922 yesterday is a work of art; the Victorians would have loved it


    https://twitter.com/StefanRousseau/status/1533909061732802562?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

    Some fun comments underneath.....'Fixed Penalty Notices 126 - Backbones 148'

    Someone from the FT made the very good point that when the Tories start looking for a new leader it will almost certainly have to be someone from outside the Cabinet. Look for high profile resignations.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,831
    edited June 7
    Aslan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    In my experience, opponents of WFH are the ones that insist on complete working in office without any evidence base.
    WFH is a disaster for any companies dealing with those companies WFH. Local Authorities have gone from blue chip companies to companies you do not want to deal with. We used to get paid in 2 weeks, now it takes 6 months. As Elon Musk says Those who oppose should go ‘pretend to work somewhere else’
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Final thought on this GDP conversation, lets switch to another flow example - petrol is about 50p a litre more expensive than it was previously.

    That doesn't mean it that the first litre I buy is 50p more expensive, then the rest return to the same price, it means every litre is 50p more expensive.

    If GDP takes a 4% hit then that means every year's GDP is 4% lower unless something changes that in the future, not just this years, just as every litre is 50p more expensive not just the first one.

    If that doesn't explain it to you Leon, I don't know what else can. Have fun everybody.

    EACH year, @BartholomewRoberts, EACH year


    So you should say "each time I buy it, petrol is 50p more expensive" and, of course, everyone would understand you mean there has been just one price rise of 50p which you moan about EACH time you go to the Esso garage. No one, BUT NO ONE, would foolishly mIsinterpret your words and think OMG, PETROL IS GOING UP 50P A LITRE PRACTICALLY EVERY WEEK, @BartholomewRoberts TOLD ME!
    Good god. That is a flow measured in litres so 50p a litre is accurate.

    GDP is a flow measured in years, so a year is accurate.
    So if you were describing a one-off 50p fuel-price rise to worried friends, you would say: "each time I buy it, petrol is 50p more expensive" ?



    That's not the sentence used. I might say that post Covid and the Ukraine war has made petrol 50p a litre more expensive. That is true, the 50p is there every litre.

    Similarly if there are any permanent Brexit effects on GDP then as they are permanent they are there every year. Let's imagine the Brexit permanently makes British GDP £100bn better off rather than worse off, I would say that is a change of GDP of £100bn "a year", that means £100bn every year, it doesn't mean £100bn this year, £200bn next year and so on.
    I'm teasing you because of this earlier exchange with @OnlyLivingBoy


    Me:

    "OK let's take @williamglenn's example

    If Brexit had permanently boosted our productive capacity by 4%, would you say "Brexit means we gain 4% GDP a year"?

    Well, would you?"

    @OnlyLivingBoy: "Yes. I would probably say "each year" not "a year"."


    So if we had a one-off, singular but permanent Brexit boost of 4% to our productive capacity - GDP - @OnlyLivingBoy claims he would tell people that "because of Brexit the UK economy gains 4% GDP each year", and he believes that would be clear and not at all misleading, not at all wrong

    Which is clearly fecking insane. No one would read that as anything but a new and massive surge in GDP every single year. The case is thereby closed. An argument ends. Obit anus, abit onus
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 25,994
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see HYUFD believes that ordinary folk read election leaflets. Door to bin, unexamined, is the normal course of things.
    They might notice whom it's from and get mildly irritated. If you're lucky.

    To be fair I look forward to, and always read, an MLP one or one from a local nutter.
    My Little Pony is a political party?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,961

    Aslan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    In my experience, opponents of WFH are the ones that insist on complete working in office without any evidence base.
    WFH is a disaster for any companies dealing with those companies WFH. Local Authorities have gone from blue chip companies to companies you do not want to deal with. We used to get paid in 2 weeks, now it takes 6 months. As Elon Musk says Those who oppose should go ‘pretend to work somewhere else’
    I've just had to make an insurance claim (for glasses broken when I fell). Initially of course I dealt with the office; however, when it came to sorting out the details and getting paid, the very pleasant lady who did the work told me she was working from home; it was all on her computer.
    The original contact was on 25th May; the money is now in my account, and I've had an apology for the 'delay'.
  • eekeek Posts: 20,666

    Aslan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    In my experience, opponents of WFH are the ones that insist on complete working in office without any evidence base.
    WFH is a disaster for any companies dealing with those companies WFH. Local Authorities have gone from blue chip companies to companies you do not want to deal with. We used to get paid in 2 weeks, now it takes 6 months. As Elon Musk says Those who oppose should go ‘pretend to work somewhere else’
    Again you look at under-resourced and poorly managed local authorities and assume that's the whole world.

    There are plenty of sectors and job types where working from home benefits everyone involved and other places where it's a completely insane idea...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,244

    Aslan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    In my experience, opponents of WFH are the ones that insist on complete working in office without any evidence base.
    WFH is a disaster for any companies dealing with those companies WFH. Local Authorities have gone from blue chip companies to companies you do not want to deal with. We used to get paid in 2 weeks, now it takes 6 months. As Elon Musk says Those who oppose should go ‘pretend to work somewhere else’
    And they will…
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see HYUFD believes that ordinary folk read election leaflets. Door to bin, unexamined, is the normal course of things.
    They might notice whom it's from and get mildly irritated. If you're lucky.

    To be fair I look forward to, and always read, an MLP one or one from a local nutter.
    I think waverers do read them. When I was a convinced Tory (BBJ) I would put a LD leaflet in the bin or smile/frown at the bar chart. Now I read it. I am genuinely interested.

    I think the Tories might have taken me off their donor/begging letter mailing list since I put a rude message on the last one and sent it back in the prepaid envelope.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    Monties Ponty (fication)

    Tim Mongomerie

    'Boris is reacting to yesterday in precisely the wrong way. Rather than reaching out to his opponents he is presenting yesterday as victory and business as usual.'

    Via twitter
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    Scott_xP said:

    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...

    Lunatic stuff. Boris is like King Lear raging on the heath. The end is close
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,719
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see HYUFD believes that ordinary folk read election leaflets. Door to bin, unexamined, is the normal course of things.
    They might notice whom it's from and get mildly irritated. If you're lucky.

    To be fair I look forward to, and always read, an MLP one or one from a local nutter.
    This talk of election leaflets got me off my arse to look at two candidate election leaflets for where I live for the upcoming elections.

    I was not aware until doing this that as well as postal voting and voting at the relevant “constituency” polling stations they have a central “pre—poll” at a central location that is open from the 13-17 June (elections the 22nd June.

    I’m initially thinking this is a good idea as increases the opportunity to vote - those not working from home can easily pop out during work and get it done rather than having to go on the way to/from work on polling day.

    I also see that you have to have passport or driving licence as approved photo id. Not sure what other photo id is accepted.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...

    Lunatic stuff. Boris is like King Lear raging on the heath. The end is close
    The Targaeryan curse has taken him. Kings Landing will burn.
    Who's our Jon Snow to knife him but lose the crown?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,244

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see HYUFD believes that ordinary folk read election leaflets. Door to bin, unexamined, is the normal course of things.
    They might notice whom it's from and get mildly irritated. If you're lucky.

    To be fair I look forward to, and always read, an MLP one or one from a local nutter.
    I think waverers do read them. When I was a convinced Tory (BBJ) I would put a LD leaflet in the bin or smile/frown at the bar chart. Now I read it. I am genuinely interested.

    I think the Tories might have taken me off their donor/begging letter mailing list since I put a rude message on the last one and sent it back in the prepaid envelope.
    Yes, in all seriousness I read them more the lower the “level” of the election. I am, for example, always on the hunt for the rare town councillor who isn’t a mate or relative of the existing group and might apply some challenge.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,244
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...

    Lunatic stuff. Boris is like King Lear raging on the heath. The end is close
    I think one well liked Cabinet Minister could take him out. Does he have any of those left….?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    We have two very sound economists on here. One who sleeps with the angels* the other who doesn't but I've just had a very enlightening lesson as I followed Bartholomew and OnlyLivingBoy trying patiently to explain some basics to Leon.

    To be fair the subtlety of GDP and GDP per annum was something I also didn't understand but unlike Leon who was last seen still arguing the point at least I do now!

    * A lefty

    As we said, GDP is a flow and trying to understand it and its nuances properly is like the economic equivalent of fluid dynamics, difficult but not that interesting to most people.

    image
    Except, Ellwood did not say "a year". I was right

    If Roger hadn't added that "a year", coz he misheard (or misunderstood?), then there would have been no argument and none of us would have wasted fifteen bloody hours

    Have we taken a permanent hit of 4% to our economic output? Quite possibly. Brexit is a drag. Tho it is extremely hard to be precise because of huge confounding factors, namely Plague and War
    He didn't need to say "a year" because it is tautologically redundant.

    Just as the words I just used, all tautologies are redundant.
    Arguably adding "each year" clarifies the statement as it indicates that the stated effect is permanent rather than a one-off.
    I think Leon's confusion stems from a failure to appreciate that GDP is a flow concept like income, not a stock concept like wealth. This is a mistake made by a surprisingly large number of people. The level of basic economic knowledge, and indeed basic numeracy, in this country is shocking sometimes. In my more charitable moments I imagine that this is probably why the PM keeps lying about things - he genuinely has no concept of numbers. I wonder what his highest STEM qualification is?
    Continuously saying "Look here, I'm an economist!" does not make you right

    Adding the deeply misleading and absurd phrase "a year" to Ellwood's quite plausible (tho highly contentious) claim that we have suffered a permanent reduction of 4% in GDP , thanks to Brexit, turned Ellwood's remark into a statement that we are losing 4% a year, every year

    This is fun!

    This exchange is starting to make me think about the wrestling a pig quotation. But I will try again.
    GDP is a flow variable. If it is permanently 4% lower than it would have been otherwise then it is 4% lower *every year* versus that counterfactual.
    Do you disagree with the statement above?
    Again, I'm talking about English, not economics. Nobody talks about GDP like this in terms of loss or gain. No one adds the words "a year" because it is misleading, and it is construed as a further, additional loss. Which is why Ellwood didn't say it

    Put it another way. If you lose a leg in 2018, your ability to run around is permanently impaired by, say, 40%. Every year after 2018 that will be true. 40% impairment. Yet no one in this situation says "I break a leg every year"

    I'm starting to see the buzz that @HYUFD gets
    A leg is a stock variable not a flow variable so your analogy is garbage.
    OK let's take @williamglenn's example

    If Brexit had permanently boosted our productive capacity by 4%, would you say "Brexit means we gain 4% GDP a year"?

    Well, would you?
    Yes. I would probably say "each year" not "a year".
    hahahahahahha

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    aHEM

    Nah, fuck it

    ahahahahahahHAHAHAHAAAURGHSPqw'lirpo1

    HAH
    Was that your legs falling off for the afternoon ?
    I think it was the sounds of an exploding reactionary fixed mindset brain that can't cope with academic concepts that are way outside the comfort zone of a travel journalist.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    Scott_xP said:

    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...

    Yes, because having been lied to, those "endless headaches" are going to come crawling back on their bellies to their master.

    And no MPs who voted to keep him are going to see this and have Boregret.....

    It is now VERY clear that anyone of ability has fled Backroom Team Boris.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,530

    Monties Ponty (fication)

    Tim Mongomerie

    'Boris is reacting to yesterday in precisely the wrong way. Rather than reaching out to his opponents he is presenting yesterday as victory and business as usual.'

    Via twitter

    How can Boris offer something to his opponents when what they want varies so greatly?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738
    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    They can say what they want but they didn't have the numbers to oust Boris yesterday and without a majority of the Parliamentary party they cannot change the 1922 cttee rules either
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    *inserts Gif of Maggie saying 'sink it'*
    End the madness, get rid of the disease, defend the blue wall, smash the red into a million ex Labour pebbles.
    Simples
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,244
    boulay said:

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see HYUFD believes that ordinary folk read election leaflets. Door to bin, unexamined, is the normal course of things.
    They might notice whom it's from and get mildly irritated. If you're lucky.

    To be fair I look forward to, and always read, an MLP one or one from a local nutter.
    This talk of election leaflets got me off my arse to look at two candidate election leaflets for where I live for the upcoming elections.

    I was not aware until doing this that as well as postal voting and voting at the relevant “constituency” polling stations they have a central “pre—poll” at a central location that is open from the 13-17 June (elections the 22nd June.

    I’m initially thinking this is a good idea as increases the opportunity to vote - those not working from home can easily pop out during work and get it done rather than having to go on the way to/from work on polling day.

    I also see that you have to have passport or driving licence as approved photo id. Not sure what other photo id is accepted.
    I thought they were meant to offer to run you an “election ID” one off for free?

    I stand by my idea of printing pictures on polling cards, asking us all to take them, and having a facilities to print a new one on the day at some central hub.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 53,486
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...

    Lunatic stuff. Boris is like King Lear raging on the heath. The end is close
    We can only hope.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,095
    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    That has been mentioned as a possibility on here. Would it not be subject to some sort of legal challenge? Boris could surely take it to the European Court of Human Rights.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,937
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...

    Lunatic stuff. Boris is like King Lear raging on the heath. The end is close
    Who is it that can tell me who I am?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 53,486
    rcs1000 said:

    In the US, I saw that Milo Yiannopoulos is now working as an intern for Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    That's right: the alt right "commentator" who got into trouble for saying paedophilia was ok, is not working for someone who believes senior Democrats run a paedophile ring.

    Normal for the 2020s.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651
    MISTY said:

    Monties Ponty (fication)

    Tim Mongomerie

    'Boris is reacting to yesterday in precisely the wrong way. Rather than reaching out to his opponents he is presenting yesterday as victory and business as usual.'

    Via twitter

    How can Boris offer something to his opponents when what they want varies so greatly?
    He could just offer his resignation. Everyone other than Lord Snooty, Nadine and the Labour Party would be greatly relieved
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,749
    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    ..

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    The rule protecting Johnson until next June can be changed by a simple majority of officers of the 1922 Committee of Conservative backbenchers https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/what-is-no-confidence-vote-what-mean-boris-johnson-d0xfd9kqj?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=confidence&utm_medium=branded_social
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,961
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    They can say what they want but they didn't have the numbers to oust Boris yesterday and without a majority of the Parliamentary party they cannot change the 1922 cttee rules either
    I stand to be corrected, but isn't the 1922 Committee elected by those who are not Ministers? In which case one could surmise that as the majority (!) of the 148 are not Ministers (etc) they could change the rules, since they have a majority.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1533910387485294594

    Boris must still have Rishi's family held in Downing Street.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,719

    Monties Ponty (fication)

    Tim Mongomerie

    'Boris is reacting to yesterday in precisely the wrong way. Rather than reaching out to his opponents he is presenting yesterday as victory and business as usual.'

    Via twitter

    So there’s this leader, a load of people he thinks should be under his control disagree vehemently. They stand up to his behaviour and when he has a small short term victory instead of offering the hand of friendship and showing them why they need him he attacks them and punishes them.

    Not just Putin in Russian occupied Ukraine but our very own Boris.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122
    On topic, the leaflet is a step up for the Conservatives, and shows they are serious about fighting by-elections - which makes a change.

    With that said, I don't think it changes much. People know the LDs are a bunch of EUrophiles. But the people of T&H aren't voting to put the LDs into government, they're voting to give Boris a
    bloody nose because of (a) the rising cost of living, and (b) partygate.

    The Conservatives are also - it should be noted - tacitly acknowledging with this leaflet that the LDs are the main challengers. If I had been running the campaign, I would have switched it around and made everything about Labour, because the best chance the Conservatives have is if they LD/Lab vote is split.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    edited June 7
    MISTY said:

    Monties Ponty (fication)

    Tim Mongomerie

    'Boris is reacting to yesterday in precisely the wrong way. Rather than reaching out to his opponents he is presenting yesterday as victory and business as usual.'

    Via twitter

    How can Boris offer something to his opponents when what they want varies so greatly?
    You can reach out without a fistful of dollars in your hand. He could have a hokey conference to 'listen and learn', he could be artificially conciliatory. He could just let them rant in his face.
    Ignoring them is just weird.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,932

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Do explain.
    Many businesses - including those I work in - have seen an increase in productivity since people started working from home rather than a reduction. I was working from home for most of the time for years before covid and once the initial setup issues were dealt with the company bosses found people were far more responsive and they got far better results in a shorter time from people working remotely. The loss of time due to commuting alone is massive and the ability to work more flexibly has greatly improved both the morale and the productivity as measured by quicker turn around of reports.

    This is real world experience rather than theoretical HR rubbish.
    It depends on the industry - some work naturally falls into "one person working alone, for sustained periods" working.

    Others are more continuously collaborative.

    It's almost as if one size doesn't fit all.
    You don't get much more collaborative than drilling a North Sea oil well. And using Teams it is far easier to do that remotely than face to face. Indeed we are now finding clients who are running meetings on Teams from their desks rather than in meeting rooms even when everyone is in the office as it is easier to share presentations etc. We have drop in Teams meetings that run for days on end and it makes life a million times easier for high intensity operations.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    They can say what they want but they didn't have the numbers to oust Boris yesterday and without a majority of the Parliamentary party they cannot change the 1922 cttee rules either
    "The fact is that as soon as they reach Baghdad gates, we will besiege them and slaughter them". HYUFD (aka as Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf) August 1990
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    Discussions within the 1922 about changing Tory Party rules to allow for another confidence vote in Boris Johnson within 12 months are "inevitable", I'm told.

    Sources tell me they feel they have the support to make changes and those on the 22 committee are open to it.

    https://twitter.com/ShehabKhan/status/1534179470394925056
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,932
    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    It doesn't suit some. But to claim that it is 'a huge threat to any nation that embraces it' as Omnium did really is utter rubbish.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...

    Lunatic stuff. Boris is like King Lear raging on the heath. The end is close
    I think one well liked Cabinet Minister could take him out. Does he have any of those left….?
    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    boulay said:

    Monties Ponty (fication)

    Tim Mongomerie

    'Boris is reacting to yesterday in precisely the wrong way. Rather than reaching out to his opponents he is presenting yesterday as victory and business as usual.'

    Via twitter

    So there’s this leader, a load of people he thinks should be under his control disagree vehemently. They stand up to his behaviour and when he has a small short term victory instead of offering the hand of friendship and showing them why they need him he attacks them and punishes them.

    Not just Putin in Russian occupied Ukraine but our very own Boris.

    The fat shagger cuckoo befouling the Great Nest of Downing Street
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,180

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    It doesn't suit some. But to claim that it is 'a huge threat to any nation that embraces it' as Omnium did really is utter rubbish.
    Just suppose though it was a 10% drag. Then it would be a huge threat. Are you entirely sure it's not?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,239
    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, the leaflet is a step up for the Conservatives, and shows they are serious about fighting by-elections - which makes a change.

    With that said, I don't think it changes much. People know the LDs are a bunch of EUrophiles. But the people of T&H aren't voting to put the LDs into government, they're voting to give Boris a
    bloody nose because of (a) the rising cost of living, and (b) partygate.

    The Conservatives are also - it should be noted - tacitly acknowledging with this leaflet that the LDs are the main challengers. If I had been running the campaign, I would have switched it around and made everything about Labour, because the best chance the Conservatives have is if they LD/Lab vote is split.

    Indeed - as a LibDem I've encountered Tory leaflets delivered in (to anyone paying attention) obviously Tory/LibDem contests that focus entirely on attacking Labour as if they're the opposition. Which is surely more clever?

    But then we are talking Devon...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651
    edited June 7

    MISTY said:

    Monties Ponty (fication)

    Tim Mongomerie

    'Boris is reacting to yesterday in precisely the wrong way. Rather than reaching out to his opponents he is presenting yesterday as victory and business as usual.'

    Via twitter

    How can Boris offer something to his opponents when what they want varies so greatly?
    You can reach out without a fistful of dollars in your hand. He could have a hokey conference to 'listen and learn', he could be artificially conciliatory. He could just let them rant in his face.
    Ignoring them is just weird.
    It is because (as I have said on here for a long time) he is not a leader. He is simply a lazy figurehead that some people very gullibly mistook for a leader.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,932
    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    It doesn't suit some. But to claim that it is 'a huge threat to any nation that embraces it' as Omnium did really is utter rubbish.
    Just suppose though it was a 10% drag. Then it would be a huge threat. Are you entirely sure it's not?

    Yes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,937

    Scott_xP said:

    How does BoZo respond to nearly half his MPs wanting rid of him?

    @FinancialTimes 1. How will PM and his team fight back?

    Johnson's allies not interested in compromise or reaching out:

    "Boris has indulged these people for far too long. He needs to do stamp his authority and rout those who "have caused endless headaches."


    https://www.ft.com/content/f5791ffa-91bc-493a-8e3c-314c7af49a77

    Genius...

    Yes, because having been lied to, those "endless headaches" are going to come crawling back on their bellies to their master.

    And no MPs who voted to keep him are going to see this and have Boregret.....

    It is now VERY clear that anyone of ability has fled Backroom Team Boris.
    Are we looking for men in grey suits or flapping white coats?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,831
    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    In my experience, opponents of WFH are the ones that insist on complete working in office without any evidence base.
    WFH is a disaster for any companies dealing with those companies WFH. Local Authorities have gone from blue chip companies to companies you do not want to deal with. We used to get paid in 2 weeks, now it takes 6 months. As Elon Musk says Those who oppose should go ‘pretend to work somewhere else’
    As I said downthread, WFH is only an issue if you are a shit company that doesn't measure work done any other way than hours in the office. Unfortunately, that is exactly what local authorities (and much of the public sector) are.

    The other bit I should have added is accountability for not doing as much work as expected for the role. Again, a major issue in the public sector.
    Its a horrible nightmare, the change in the way LAs and other public sector bodies now work is staggering. You cannot speak to anyone, they do not reply to emails, and they certainly don't pay for services received. It has to stop soon.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    I am sure you also said there would be no VoNC. You are Dominic Raab (as well as Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf) and I claim my £5.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,239
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    So we can all sleep soundly, safe in the knowledge that a lazy dishonest narcissistic hypocrite remains in charge of our country....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122
    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    It doesn't suit some. But to claim that it is 'a huge threat to any nation that embraces it' as Omnium did really is utter rubbish.
    Just suppose though it was a 10% drag. Then it would be a huge threat. Are you entirely sure it's not?

    A 10% drag in general? I can see if for some jobs, but in general? I highly doubt it.

    Don't forget that people are also getting 15% of their day back in not spending time commuting, and a further 2-3% as they won't need to spend so much time on personal hygiene.

    From my perspective (as an entrepreneur) it's complicated. Some people are highly motivated, and we get both more hours and more focused hours. Others - particularly those who lack motivation or who are less confident in their skills - struggle more. We also find that bringing junior employees up to speed on the code base takes longer.

    But in general, I'd say WFH (for a tech company like us) is a mild positive - we don't have to hire people just in Los Angeles, which increases the labour pool. And people seem to really enjoy the meetups - although the ample quantities of alcohol may play a role.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,932

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    In my experience, opponents of WFH are the ones that insist on complete working in office without any evidence base.
    WFH is a disaster for any companies dealing with those companies WFH. Local Authorities have gone from blue chip companies to companies you do not want to deal with. We used to get paid in 2 weeks, now it takes 6 months. As Elon Musk says Those who oppose should go ‘pretend to work somewhere else’
    As I said downthread, WFH is only an issue if you are a shit company that doesn't measure work done any other way than hours in the office. Unfortunately, that is exactly what local authorities (and much of the public sector) are.

    The other bit I should have added is accountability for not doing as much work as expected for the role. Again, a major issue in the public sector.
    Its a horrible nightmare, the change in the way LAs and other public sector bodies now work is staggering. You cannot speak to anyone, they do not reply to emails, and they certainly don't pay for services received. It has to stop soon.
    That has been the way in many local authorities for years.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    It doesn't suit some. But to claim that it is 'a huge threat to any nation that embraces it' as Omnium did really is utter rubbish.
    I do wonder how many people who regularly post on here are WFH? I can confess that I am such, though I am only accountable to myself and my accountant.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    And when the grey suits are closing in you can hug your knees in to your chest and say 'there aren't the numbers, there aren't the numbers' all day if you like, it wont save Boris.

    He would not survuive a double big beast resignation
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Do explain.
    Many businesses - including those I work in - have seen an increase in productivity since people started working from home rather than a reduction. I was working from home for most of the time for years before covid and once the initial setup issues were dealt with the company bosses found people were far more responsive and they got far better results in a shorter time from people working remotely. The loss of time due to commuting alone is massive and the ability to work more flexibly has greatly improved both the morale and the productivity as measured by quicker turn around of reports.

    This is real world experience rather than theoretical HR rubbish.
    It depends on the industry - some work naturally falls into "one person working alone, for sustained periods" working.

    Others are more continuously collaborative.

    It's almost as if one size doesn't fit all.
    You don't get much more collaborative than drilling a North Sea oil well. And using Teams it is far easier to do that remotely than face to face. Indeed we are now finding clients who are running meetings on Teams from their desks rather than in meeting rooms even when everyone is in the office as it is easier to share presentations etc. We have drop in Teams meetings that run for days on end and it makes life a million times easier for high intensity operations.
    We've found pair programming works better using modern tools than the old way of having two people behind a desk - to the extent that even when people are in the office, they'll often be sitting next to each other on their own computers, communicating using headphones.

    It's been a massive boon for Bose.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,530
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    And they can't block Johnson's legislative programme because labour doesn't object that strongly to most of it.....
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,831

    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Supporters of WFH have an almost religious-like devotion to the cause and are often incredulous that anyone could possibly have a different opinion to them on the subject.
    In my experience, opponents of WFH are the ones that insist on complete working in office without any evidence base.
    WFH is a disaster for any companies dealing with those companies WFH. Local Authorities have gone from blue chip companies to companies you do not want to deal with. We used to get paid in 2 weeks, now it takes 6 months. As Elon Musk says Those who oppose should go ‘pretend to work somewhere else’
    As I said downthread, WFH is only an issue if you are a shit company that doesn't measure work done any other way than hours in the office. Unfortunately, that is exactly what local authorities (and much of the public sector) are.

    The other bit I should have added is accountability for not doing as much work as expected for the role. Again, a major issue in the public sector.
    Its a horrible nightmare, the change in the way LAs and other public sector bodies now work is staggering. You cannot speak to anyone, they do not reply to emails, and they certainly don't pay for services received. It has to stop soon.
    That has been the way in many local authorities for years.
    Seriously it does not compare, you could ring the Finance Dept and speak to someone, now you can't, you are asked to email which they then ignore.

    Council procedures used to be followed, they no longer are, and because no one is following them, nobody cares.

    We work with a Housing Association who are all still WFH, they have 112 outstanding invoices from us which they have failed to pay for no reason. Astonishingly they have requested a teams meeting with us to complain that we have been chasing for the money!!

    The whole change in attitude caused by WFH is scary.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122
    Scott_xP said:

    The rule protecting Johnson until next June can be changed by a simple majority of officers of the 1922 Committee of Conservative backbenchers https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/what-is-no-confidence-vote-what-mean-boris-johnson-d0xfd9kqj?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=confidence&utm_medium=branded_social

    The reality (as TMay discovered) is that if enough Conservative MPs step up and send letters, then the leader will be gone. We're not there yet. But a couple of brutal byelections, and if the Conservative poll share were to drop into the 20s, then we could see it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    And when the grey suits are closing in you can hug your knees in to your chest and say 'there aren't the numbers, there aren't the numbers' all day if you like, it wont save Boris.

    He would not survuive a double big beast resignation
    Yes he would, he is as stubborn as Trump. The grey suits mean nothing unless they have the majority of party MPs at least and probably most party members behind them now.

    The days of the Magic Circle are long gone
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,559
    edited June 7
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    They can say what they want but they didn't have the numbers to oust Boris yesterday and without a majority of the Parliamentary party they cannot change the 1922 cttee rules either
    I think you have got the mechanics wrong, you don't need a majority of all Tory MPs to change the rules. Even if you did surely the point is that if 32 more Tory MPs join the 148 they can then change the rules. In other words Johnson is not guaranteed to be safe for 12 months.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 9,347
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    They can say what they want but they didn't have the numbers to oust Boris yesterday and without a majority of the Parliamentary party they cannot change the 1922 cttee rules either
    They might after they get smashed in the bi-elections.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    I am sure you also said there would be no VoNC. You are Dominic Raab (as well as Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf) and I claim my £5.
    No I didn't, however I did say if there was he would win it 55% to 45% which was not far off
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 22,323
    edited June 7
    Got to laugh at @Leon, who once claimed to have never had a proper job in his life, bemoaning people not being in the office five days a week.

    It's all part of the Woke breakdown of civilisation @Leon! Get used to it!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    They can say what they want but they didn't have the numbers to oust Boris yesterday and without a majority of the Parliamentary party they cannot change the 1922 cttee rules either
    They might after they get smashed in the bi-elections.
    Not unless also reflected in the polls and they didn't after North Shropshire or Chesham and Amersham and Tiverton at least could still be a narrow Tory hold
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    I am sure you also said there would be no VoNC. You are Dominic Raab (as well as Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf) and I claim my £5.
    No I didn't, however I did say if there was he would win it 55% to 45% which was not far off
    Can you tell me you are definitely not Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf though? You do seem very like him. Go on, confess!!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,147
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    Vote with the opposition in a VONC in the House of Commons. Shit or bust.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    Vote with the opposition in a VONC in the House of Commons. Shit or bust.
    Then many of them lose their seats anyway, especially in Remain seats and the Tory Party left in the Commons is even more hard Brexit and rightwing
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,116
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    They can say what they want but they didn't have the numbers to oust Boris yesterday and without a majority of the Parliamentary party they cannot change the 1922 cttee rules either
    Surely the point is that if 32 more Tory MPs join the 148 they can then change the rules. In other words Johnson is not guaranteed to be safe for 12 months.
    It's like the Fixed Term Parliaments thing. If there is sufficient desire for an early election, there will be sufficient desire to override rules preventing one. (Which doesn't make the FPTA or the one year immunity rule totally futile- sometimes an "are you sure you want to do this?" step is useful.)

    The same goes for referendums. The time to have them is when the demand for them is strong, and demand will be strong when there's a fair chance of a "change" result.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,371
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think it would need multiple Cabinet resignations. Not sure there are enough spines to go round.

    2 would be enough. Rishi and Truss or Javid would do it
    Yes. Agree. Any 2 with a support base in the party. One looks like self promotion/coup, 2 is fatal.
    No it isn't, as yesterday showed the rebels still lack the numbers to oust him, Boris will never resign so without that nothing they can do
    And when the grey suits are closing in you can hug your knees in to your chest and say 'there aren't the numbers, there aren't the numbers' all day if you like, it wont save Boris.

    He would not survuive a double big beast resignation
    Yes he would, he is as stubborn as Trump. The grey suits mean nothing unless they have the majority of party MPs at least and probably most party members behind them now.

    The days of the Magic Circle are long gone
    If (for example) Truss and Javid quit simultaneously theyd take several with them and he'd no longer have the numbers, its a simple 32 MP swing to Bojexit. Much of his 211 is contingent on a functioning givernment that backs him, cabinet ministers have a personal following in the party etc.
    The grey suits will be there long after Boris is a footnote
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,147

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I just emailed a publicity person at the Love Toy Carver's Compendium

    I got this reply:

    "Thank you for your email. My regular work days are Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, and I will reply to your message as soon as possible then."

    WTF? So this means he/she now only works 3 days a week. That isn't WFH, that's a 40% drop in productivity. Or am I missing something?

    There’s been a huge increase in white-collar part time working, in the last few years. If the work can still be accomplished in three days, things aren’t particularly time-bound, and both employer and employee are happy with the arrangement - which is probably 60% work for 60% pay - then why not?
    Fair enough. I can't help thinking it shows a lack of urgency, however.

    I never got these "I only work 3 days" pingbacks before Covid
    The WFH thing is a huge threat to any nation that embraces it. The crap people can continue doing their jobs, but the good people won't be able to. Paperclips counted - tick, innovations made - none.
    LOL. This is a fundamentally wrong comment.
    Do explain.
    Many businesses - including those I work in - have seen an increase in productivity since people started working from home rather than a reduction. I was working from home for most of the time for years before covid and once the initial setup issues were dealt with the company bosses found people were far more responsive and they got far better results in a shorter time from people working remotely. The loss of time due to commuting alone is massive and the ability to work more flexibly has greatly improved both the morale and the productivity as measured by quicker turn around of reports.

    This is real world experience rather than theoretical HR rubbish.
    It depends on the industry - some work naturally falls into "one person working alone, for sustained periods" working.

    Others are more continuously collaborative.

    It's almost as if one size doesn't fit all.
    You don't get much more collaborative than drilling a North Sea oil well. And using Teams it is far easier to do that remotely than face to face. Indeed we are now finding clients who are running meetings on Teams from their desks rather than in meeting rooms even when everyone is in the office as it is easier to share presentations etc. We have drop in Teams meetings that run for days on end and it makes life a million times easier for high intensity operations.
    Much better to have everyone join from their desks than half in a room and half remote.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,651
    I just got this via my LI account:

    This is ****** from ***** . I’m reaching out to explore the opportunity to form a close partnership...

    My response:

    Hi*****

    Thanks for your handcrafted mass mailing.

    Please note you should only "reach out" if you are a member of The Four Tops. Forgive me for not wishing to engage with you in a close relationship when we have not even had a first date.

    Yours etc.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 8,227

    Leon said:

    The Times
    @thetimes
    ·
    3m
    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Conservative rebels are determined to change the party’s leadership rules and force another vote on Boris Johnson’s leadership within months

    That has been mentioned as a possibility on here. Would it not be subject to some sort of legal challenge? Boris could surely take it to the European Court of Human Rights.
    It isn't a judiciable issue. The problem is that the rebels don't have a majority, as demonstrated yesterday.

    It only takes a simple majority to change the rules, but if the rebels has a simple majority Boris would already be on his way out.
This discussion has been closed.