These are the numbers that should really panic Number 10 – politicalbetting.com

Stark_Dawning said:

Leon said:

dixiedean said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

But that isn't "reversing Brexit".

I literally said “REVERSE BREXIT IN SOME FORM. NOT IMMEDIATELY REJOIN, NOT YET, BUT RE-ENTER THE SINGLE MARKET”

FFS, read the comments

Hold on. Mr Rees-Mogg has released his 2,000 Brexit benefits this very morn. Let's just wait. Could be a game changer. The freedom of not having to do certain electrical safety checks could put the Tories 20 points ahead.

The right to be electrocuted by a Chinese British electrical appliance is definitely what I voted for.

On rent-seeking, it is a unfortunately-termed broad economic phrase which is often mistakenly thought to relate to landlords/tenants because of its name:

https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentSeeking.html

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

El_Capitano said:

wooliedyed said:

El_Capitano said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Heaven forfend that Keir Starmer do something that would "solve a lot of problems".

It will lead to electoral DOOM, I tell you.

Even this would lead to reigniting the foulness of 2017 to 2019 but even more pronounced. There is no way Starmer would be able to sell it to all those that voted in droves to 'get Brexit done' nor contain their rage at what would be seen as an undoing (without even a referendum). Would be socially disastrous.

Nah, it won't.

It will be a thousand incremental little movements towards EEA/EFTA. Starmer is not going to stand up in the HoC and say "We are signing a new accord with the EU which restores our former status."

It will be two lines in a repeatedly-iterated treaty towards solving the Northern Ireland issues. It will be an MoU for (insert UK agency of some sort) to work more closely with (insert EU agency of some sort). And so on, a thousand times.

Occasionally a Tory backbencher or an unreconstructed DUP Paisleyite will stand up during the third reading of the Agricultural Concordance Bill (2025) and fulminate about where all this is going. Giles Fraser will write something self-righteous in Unherd. We will have a few in vino veritas moments with Leon and we love him for it.

But that will be it. Little by little, we will get back to something akin to our 1990s EU membership.

But eventually he has to say hes sending Wes Streeting etc to negotiate our entry into 'whatever'
Plus the Euro triumphalism over our renewed interest in the project wont be contained and will act as a horse spooker

Pretty damning @SavantaComRes poll shows Tory 80:20 election strategy to be cloud cuckoo land: 38% of 2019 Tory voters have unfavourable view of Boris Johnson, as do /4 of other main party voters. At least the choice for Tory MPs is clear.</i>
https://twitter.com/PigsAndPolling/status/1531611229667590146

This seems like a development...

Word among Conservative MPs is that Boris Johnson has begun calling his critics, hinting at the prospect of promotion and asking in return that they 'stay with me'. Clearly No 10 feel the threat of a confidence vote if those kind of approaches are being made.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1531615589105643520

Scott_xP said:

This seems like a development...

Word among Conservative MPs is that Boris Johnson has begun calling his critics, hinting at the prospect of promotion and asking in return that they 'stay with me'. Clearly No 10 feel the threat of a confidence vote if those kind of approaches are being made.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1531615589105643520

Leaving junior ministers who arent particularly strong allies to realise they are fodder for critic promotions
Well done Digby

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

1. They decide on food standards etc
2. We're never going to check them
3. Our food industry keeps the same standards it has now - EU standards - and just updates as they improve
4. As we're never checking stuff coming in the EU standard remains the defacto UK one. Government can't impose a new standard it isn't willing to police.

So yes, that's quite literally what he just announced. Remember that the lifespan of these wazzocks in office is at most another 30 months, likely not even that in weeks.

Your argument could be turned around to say that the EU is completely unnecessary because European countries will just reciprocally adopt best practice. What value does Brussels add?

RochdalePioneers said:

Scott_xP said:

This seems like a development...

Word among Conservative MPs is that Boris Johnson has begun calling his critics, hinting at the prospect of promotion and asking in return that they 'stay with me'. Clearly No 10 feel the threat of a confidence vote if those kind of approaches are being made.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1531615589105643520

Tory MP gets the call:
"Back me and there's the prospect of promotion"
[But that means firing others.
Which means those promoted are dispensable.
Which makes my promotion likely short-lived.
And would be anyway if the polls and the deluge of angry emails I'm getting are correct.]
"Thanks Prime Minister, you have my full support"
[Opens Gmail]
'Dear Graham...'

Crocodile death roll is here.
I'm calling it! Its over.

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

1. They decide on food standards etc
2. We're never going to check them
3. Our food industry keeps the same standards it has now - EU standards - and just updates as they improve
4. As we're never checking stuff coming in the EU standard remains the defacto UK one. Government can't impose a new standard it isn't willing to police.

So yes, that's quite literally what he just announced. Remember that the lifespan of these wazzocks in office is at most another 30 months, likely not even that in weeks.

Your argument could be turned around to say that the EU is completely unnecessary because European countries will just reciprocally adopt best practice. What value does Brussels add?

You tell us. "You" argued in favour of it for years, and very eloquently I might add. This was before your account has nicked by a swivel-eyed Europhobe troll

RochdalePioneers said:

Having eulogised about EVs earlier I appear still to have a semi about pick-up trucks. Wouldn't be practical for day to day, but I have no doubt I can find rural shit to do with one. And they are diesel which makes them doubly dirty.

I am a deviant.

They are cool. And tax efficient if you put them through a company.

Leon said:

JohnLilburne said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Sounds ideal. I'd be happy with that. Probably inevitable so I would stop worrying about it.

I’m not “worrying”. I’m sitting on my ridiculously ramshackle new Tbilisi terrace staring across the old town at Shameba cathedral sipping cold white Georgian wine as I listen to the small children argue in Ossetian just below me

It’s brilliant.




I too would be OK with Freedom of Movement restored. But many won’t be. Yet that is the direction PM Starmer will want to go, emotionally

Have you tried the qvevri yet? What did you think?

What is qvevri? I’m trying a lot of wine, is that the amber coloured one? If so, yes. I have, and its delicious

Yes, the one they ferment on the leaves and twigs. I was impressed. There is red qvevri as well, but it's less unusual as you make red that way anyway.

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Same.

I'm pretty sure it was the first, actually...

and second, third, fourth, fifth....been one everyday for the past 6 months.

bondegezou said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Sounds ideal. I'd be happy with that. Probably inevitable so I would stop worrying about it.

I’m not “worrying”. I’m sitting on my ridiculously ramshackle new Tbilisi terrace staring across the old town at Shameba cathedral sipping cold white Georgian wine as I listen to the small children argue in Ossetian just below me

It’s brilliant.




I too would be OK with Freedom of Movement restored. But many won’t be. Yet that is the direction PM Starmer will want to go, emotionally

How do you know the children are speaking Ossetian? (Ossetian, or Ossetic, is fairly close to Pashto.)

I was joking. i have no idea. It is all Ingushetian to me. Or Hattic. Or Lezgic. Khinalug?

And that too is brilliant. To be in a land where you absolutely have no idea what people are saying. Or what signs mean

I have enough vague French, Italian, Spanish, German to get a grasp of what people are saying where these tongues are spoken. Even Russian is not completely impenetrable - because I’ve travelled there enough to be able to work out the Cyrillic alphabet

Yet here the alphabet is WTAF and the words are OMG wut? So it’s more like being in Japan or China except it *looks* European, which makes for an intoxicating mix of sensations

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

1. They decide on food standards etc
2. We're never going to check them
3. Our food industry keeps the same standards it has now - EU standards - and just updates as they improve
4. As we're never checking stuff coming in the EU standard remains the defacto UK one. Government can't impose a new standard it isn't willing to police.

So yes, that's quite literally what he just announced. Remember that the lifespan of these wazzocks in office is at most another 30 months, likely not even that in weeks.

Your argument could be turned around to say that the EU is completely unnecessary because European countries will just reciprocally adopt best practice. What value does Brussels add?

You tell us. "You" argued in favour of it for years, and very eloquently I might add. This was before your account has nicked by a swivel-eyed Europhobe troll

Someone disagreeing with you does not make them a troll.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

1. They decide on food standards etc
2. We're never going to check them
3. Our food industry keeps the same standards it has now - EU standards - and just updates as they improve
4. As we're never checking stuff coming in the EU standard remains the defacto UK one. Government can't impose a new standard it isn't willing to police.

So yes, that's quite literally what he just announced. Remember that the lifespan of these wazzocks in office is at most another 30 months, likely not even that in weeks.

Your argument could be turned around to say that the EU is completely unnecessary because European countries will just reciprocally adopt best practice. What value does Brussels add?

You tell us. "You" argued in favour of it for years, and very eloquently I might add. This was before your account has nicked by a swivel-eyed Europhobe troll

Who is the twat that hit the "off topic" button? Come on own up?

Just tell @rcs1000 that your comment was a response to criticism of Radiohead and he'll sort them out.

RobD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

1. They decide on food standards etc
2. We're never going to check them
3. Our food industry keeps the same standards it has now - EU standards - and just updates as they improve
4. As we're never checking stuff coming in the EU standard remains the defacto UK one. Government can't impose a new standard it isn't willing to police.

So yes, that's quite literally what he just announced. Remember that the lifespan of these wazzocks in office is at most another 30 months, likely not even that in weeks.

Your argument could be turned around to say that the EU is completely unnecessary because European countries will just reciprocally adopt best practice. What value does Brussels add?

You tell us. "You" argued in favour of it for years, and very eloquently I might add. This was before your account has nicked by a swivel-eyed Europhobe troll

Someone disagreeing with you does not make them a troll.

People who are wrong regularly disagree with me. Nothing new in that. Someone who does a 180 degree flip from one extreme to the other deserves ridicule or questioning over whether they are who they claim to be. It was not "off topic"

dixiedean said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Leon said:

dixiedean said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

But that isn't "reversing Brexit".

I literally said “REVERSE BREXIT IN SOME FORM. NOT IMMEDIATELY REJOIN, NOT YET, BUT RE-ENTER THE SINGLE MARKET”

FFS, read the comments

Hold on. Mr Rees-Mogg has released his 2,000 Brexit benefits this very morn. Let's just wait. Could be a game changer. The freedom of not having to do certain electrical safety checks could put the Tories 20 points ahead.

Don't forget more powerful vacuum cleaners.
This government sucks.
Big time.

TBF, they do need something for the dried vomit on the carpets.

wooliedyed said:

El_Capitano said:

wooliedyed said:

El_Capitano said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Heaven forfend that Keir Starmer do something that would "solve a lot of problems".

It will lead to electoral DOOM, I tell you.

Even this would lead to reigniting the foulness of 2017 to 2019 but even more pronounced. There is no way Starmer would be able to sell it to all those that voted in droves to 'get Brexit done' nor contain their rage at what would be seen as an undoing (without even a referendum). Would be socially disastrous.

Nah, it won't.

It will be a thousand incremental little movements towards EEA/EFTA. Starmer is not going to stand up in the HoC and say "We are signing a new accord with the EU which restores our former status."

It will be two lines in a repeatedly-iterated treaty towards solving the Northern Ireland issues. It will be an MoU for (insert UK agency of some sort) to work more closely with (insert EU agency of some sort). And so on, a thousand times.

Occasionally a Tory backbencher or an unreconstructed DUP Paisleyite will stand up during the third reading of the Agricultural Concordance Bill (2025) and fulminate about where all this is going. Giles Fraser will write something self-righteous in Unherd. We will have a few in vino veritas moments with Leon and we love him for it.

But that will be it. Little by little, we will get back to something akin to our 1990s EU membership.

But eventually he has to say hes sending Wes Streeting etc to negotiate our entry into 'whatever'
Plus the Euro triumphalism over our renewed interest in the project wont be contained and will act as a horse spooker

Yep. The Remoaners won’t be able to resist gloating and exulting

Which is why I say that this way lies trouble, politically. But Starmer will still do it. Because he is so emotionally devoted to the EU, and - more importantly - so is everyone around him. Peer group pressure is almost irresistible

Nigel_Foremain said:

RobD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

1. They decide on food standards etc
2. We're never going to check them
3. Our food industry keeps the same standards it has now - EU standards - and just updates as they improve
4. As we're never checking stuff coming in the EU standard remains the defacto UK one. Government can't impose a new standard it isn't willing to police.

So yes, that's quite literally what he just announced. Remember that the lifespan of these wazzocks in office is at most another 30 months, likely not even that in weeks.

Your argument could be turned around to say that the EU is completely unnecessary because European countries will just reciprocally adopt best practice. What value does Brussels add?

You tell us. "You" argued in favour of it for years, and very eloquently I might add. This was before your account has nicked by a swivel-eyed Europhobe troll

Someone disagreeing with you does not make them a troll.

People who are wrong regularly disagree with me. Nothing new in that. Someone who does a 180 degree flip from one extreme to the other deserves ridicule or questioning over whether they are who they claim to be. It was not "off topic"

Quit your bitching you silly old woman

SouthamObserver said:

The queues we are seeing at the UK's airports currently tell you so much about how crap senior managements often are in the private sector. They took a short-term decision to save money during covid by laying off a shedload of staff and are now inflicting the inevitable long-term consequences of that on their customers. It's the British business malaise laid bear - we are incapable of seeing beyond the end of our noses. We lionise those who cut costs as people who take the hard decisions. But there is nothing tough about doing it. It's easy. Any fool can do it. But there is almost always a price to pay. As ever, the idea that the private sector knows best is revealed by real life to be a load of old pony.

Agree but what I can't understand is why they've allowed passengers to book flights when they must have known they didn't have enough staff. It's as if they were hoping for the best.

Andy_JS said:

SouthamObserver said:

The queues we are seeing at the UK's airports currently tell you so much about how crap senior managements often are in the private sector. They took a short-term decision to save money during covid by laying off a shedload of staff and are now inflicting the inevitable long-term consequences of that on their customers. It's the British business malaise laid bear - we are incapable of seeing beyond the end of our noses. We lionise those who cut costs as people who take the hard decisions. But there is nothing tough about doing it. It's easy. Any fool can do it. But there is almost always a price to pay. As ever, the idea that the private sector knows best is revealed by real life to be a load of old pony.

Agree but what I can't understand is why they've allowed passengers to book flights when they must have known they didn't have enough staff. It's as if they were hoping for the best.

Plus ca change...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Express_passenger_removal

AN APPEAL TO PRACTICAL PB-ERS

I am out here in Tbilisi with an expensive piece of big luggage which is close to collapsing. Simply because I travel so much. Zips are fraying. Wheels are loosening

Now a steel rod has sprung from the casing and making it almost unusable. See here




That’s nasty. The metal is also strong and rigid. It won’t just snap off. I’ve tried. What can I do? I’m not sure I can find high quality luggage in Tbilisi to replace it

If I could just get 1-2 more months of use out of this suitcase, I can replace it when I get back to london. Or should I give upon on this bag and scour the Caucasus for a replacement?

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_xP said:

This seems like a development...

Word among Conservative MPs is that Boris Johnson has begun calling his critics, hinting at the prospect of promotion and asking in return that they 'stay with me'. Clearly No 10 feel the threat of a confidence vote if those kind of approaches are being made.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1531615589105643520

He's toast.

Ahem. I believe that is the third time you have posted those two words ...

I'm not a fan of Jeremy Hunt as a politician but I think if he becomes leader the Tories probably aren't going to lose many of the so-called Blue Wall seats in Surrey, Hampshire, Sussex, etc.

Leon said:

AN APPEAL TO PRACTICAL PB-ERS

I am out here in Tbilisi with an expensive piece of big luggage which is close to collapsing. Simply because I travel so much. Zips are fraying. Wheels are loosening

Now a steel rod has sprung from the casing and making it almost unusable. See here




That’s nasty. The metal is also strong and rigid. It won’t just snap off. I’ve tried. What can I do? I’m not sure I can find high quality luggage in Tbilisi to replace it

If I could just get 1-2 more months of use out of this suitcase, I can replace it when I get back to london. Or should I give upon on this bag and scour the Caucasus for a replacement?

I notice the wheels. Don't real men carry their own cases? Just sayin'.

Malmesbury said:

Pulpstar said:

Who runs the airports ?
Seem to be thick as mince.

The airports are run for the benefit of

1) the owners
2) the airlines
3) the security people
4) the various retailers.
.
.
187) the passengers

I've never heard an aircraft manufacturer, airline boss, or airport owner that didn't sound like some kind of spiv. The whole lot of them seem to rely on rooking customers, getting handouts and bailouts, and generally getting away with murder.

One little tidbit that might help PBers. Conservative associations needs to have their AGMs by the end of June according to party rules.

A recent one I attend was very illuminating. MP stood up and said he'd struggle to provide support to PM (he announced similarly to the press this weekend) if there was a confidence vote. Hear hears/clapping to tutting ratio was 5:1.

The party faithful have turned against Boris. MPs are noticing.

I'm thinking we're into the final weeks, if not days, of this premiership....

Farooq said:

Leon said:

wooliedyed said:

El_Capitano said:

wooliedyed said:

El_Capitano said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Heaven forfend that Keir Starmer do something that would "solve a lot of problems".

It will lead to electoral DOOM, I tell you.

Even this would lead to reigniting the foulness of 2017 to 2019 but even more pronounced. There is no way Starmer would be able to sell it to all those that voted in droves to 'get Brexit done' nor contain their rage at what would be seen as an undoing (without even a referendum). Would be socially disastrous.

Nah, it won't.

It will be a thousand incremental little movements towards EEA/EFTA. Starmer is not going to stand up in the HoC and say "We are signing a new accord with the EU which restores our former status."

It will be two lines in a repeatedly-iterated treaty towards solving the Northern Ireland issues. It will be an MoU for (insert UK agency of some sort) to work more closely with (insert EU agency of some sort). And so on, a thousand times.

Occasionally a Tory backbencher or an unreconstructed DUP Paisleyite will stand up during the third reading of the Agricultural Concordance Bill (2025) and fulminate about where all this is going. Giles Fraser will write something self-righteous in Unherd. We will have a few in vino veritas moments with Leon and we love him for it.

But that will be it. Little by little, we will get back to something akin to our 1990s EU membership.

But eventually he has to say hes sending Wes Streeting etc to negotiate our entry into 'whatever'
Plus the Euro triumphalism over our renewed interest in the project wont be contained and will act as a horse spooker

Yep. The Remoaners won’t be able to resist gloating and exulting

Which is why I say that this way lies trouble, politically. But Starmer will still do it. Because he is so emotionally devoted to the EU, and - more importantly - so is everyone around him. Peer group pressure is almost irresistible

I'm looking forward to a nice bit of gloating.
If I want to really dish out what we've been given, I might add a bit of gaslighting into the mix. And an insistent teacherly tone that any reverses you suffered are entirely due to your own moral failings. One or two of you might even get called beta cucks along the way, who knows? And deep down you'll know you deserve it.

The sad thing (for them) is they know it is coming. Full fat, full on, ever closer union with the Euro and Schengen for hors d'oeuvres. "Hors d'oeuvres must be obeyed at all times without question", as Basil Fawlty once said.

RobD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

RobD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

1. They decide on food standards etc
2. We're never going to check them
3. Our food industry keeps the same standards it has now - EU standards - and just updates as they improve
4. As we're never checking stuff coming in the EU standard remains the defacto UK one. Government can't impose a new standard it isn't willing to police.

So yes, that's quite literally what he just announced. Remember that the lifespan of these wazzocks in office is at most another 30 months, likely not even that in weeks.

Your argument could be turned around to say that the EU is completely unnecessary because European countries will just reciprocally adopt best practice. What value does Brussels add?

You tell us. "You" argued in favour of it for years, and very eloquently I might add. This was before your account has nicked by a swivel-eyed Europhobe troll

Someone disagreeing with you does not make them a troll.

People who are wrong regularly disagree with me. Nothing new in that. Someone who does a 180 degree flip from one extreme to the other deserves ridicule or questioning over whether they are who they claim to be. It was not "off topic"

People can change their minds and views as situations evolve. .

But every few hours, as in Leon's case?

Stocky said:

Leon said:

AN APPEAL TO PRACTICAL PB-ERS

I am out here in Tbilisi with an expensive piece of big luggage which is close to collapsing. Simply because I travel so much. Zips are fraying. Wheels are loosening

Now a steel rod has sprung from the casing and making it almost unusable. See here




That’s nasty. The metal is also strong and rigid. It won’t just snap off. I’ve tried. What can I do? I’m not sure I can find high quality luggage in Tbilisi to replace it

If I could just get 1-2 more months of use out of this suitcase, I can replace it when I get back to london. Or should I give upon on this bag and scour the Caucasus for a replacement?

I notice the wheels. Don't real men carry their own cases? Just sayin'.

wire cutters?

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

RobD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

MISTY said:

Leon said:

As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

It is certainly possible

When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.

The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.

And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.

How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.

I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.

A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.

The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problems

Here is just one for Labour. Brexit

If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.

In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc

And that way lies much trouble

Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.

I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problems

And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement

This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters

Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.

But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Rees-Mogg was talking about border checks, not regulatory alignment. Saying, "We trust EU regulations on food for the moment so border checks are a burden we don't need," is not the same as saying, "We want the EU to make our own laws in perpetuity."

1. They decide on food standards etc
2. We're never going to check them
3. Our food industry keeps the same standards it has now - EU standards - and just updates as they improve
4. As we're never checking stuff coming in the EU standard remains the defacto UK one. Government can't impose a new standard it isn't willing to police.

So yes, that's quite literally what he just announced. Remember that the lifespan of these wazzocks in office is at most another 30 months, likely not even that in weeks.

Your argument could be turned around to say that the EU is completely unnecessary because European countries will just reciprocally adopt best practice. What value does Brussels add?

You tell us. "You" argued in favour of it for years, and very eloquently I might add. This was before your account has nicked by a swivel-eyed Europhobe troll

Someone disagreeing with you does not make them a troll.

People who are wrong regularly disagree with me. Nothing new in that. Someone who does a 180 degree flip from one extreme to the other deserves ridicule or questioning over whether they are who they claim to be. It was not "off topic"

Quit your bitching you silly old woman

Ah, I see psychological projection is not cured by a plastic bag on the head then?

Stocky said:

Leon said:

AN APPEAL TO PRACTICAL PB-ERS

I am out here in Tbilisi with an expensive piece of big luggage which is close to collapsing. Simply because I travel so much. Zips are fraying. Wheels are loosening

Now a steel rod has sprung from the casing and making it almost unusable. See here




That’s nasty. The metal is also strong and rigid. It won’t just snap off. I’ve tried. What can I do? I’m not sure I can find high quality luggage in Tbilisi to replace it

If I could just get 1-2 more months of use out of this suitcase, I can replace it when I get back to london. Or should I give upon on this bag and scour the Caucasus for a replacement?

I notice the wheels. Don't real men carry their own cases? Just sayin'.

Can you even get suitcases without wheels any more?

There was a brief moment in the 1990s when British airports seemed to work like clockwork about 95% of the time, even in peak times like school holidays. It shows how easy it is to go backwards.

Andy_JS said:

I'm not a fan of Jeremy Hunt as a politician but I think if he becomes leader the Tories probably aren't going to lose many of the so-called Blue Wall seats in Surrey, Hampshire, Sussex, etc.

I strongly agree. He seems ok to me. As I have said before his only real blackmark for me was his dalliance with homeopathy. He claimed it was naivety but he shouldn't have touched that with a barge pole.

Sandpit said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

AN APPEAL TO PRACTICAL PB-ERS

I am out here in Tbilisi with an expensive piece of big luggage which is close to collapsing. Simply because I travel so much. Zips are fraying. Wheels are loosening

Now a steel rod has sprung from the casing and making it almost unusable. See here




That’s nasty. The metal is also strong and rigid. It won’t just snap off. I’ve tried. What can I do? I’m not sure I can find high quality luggage in Tbilisi to replace it

If I could just get 1-2 more months of use out of this suitcase, I can replace it when I get back to london. Or should I give upon on this bag and scour the Caucasus for a replacement?

Have you thought of borrowing a hacksaw? Or would the structure be terminally weakened?

A hacksaw might just chew it off. And the structure is still good (I think)

but 1. Where the F do I get a hacksaw and 2. Maybe this is a hint from the Gods of Entropy - this bag is nearly dead. If a zip and a wheel goes when I’m out in the wilds again, I’m screwed. So i need to bite the bullet and see if the capital of Georgia can cough up something that will suffice as a replacement

Get a hacksaw or a pair of pliers with a cutter, from any local hardware store or large supermarket. Or do your bit for the local economy as you say, and buy yourself a new one in Tibilsi.

Agree, a pair of pliers with a cutting edge will sort that easily provided you are not too wimpy.

Andy_JS said:

I'm not a fan of Jeremy Hunt as a politician but I think if he becomes leader the Tories probably aren't going to lose many of the so-called Blue Wall seats in Surrey, Hampshire, Sussex, etc.

Quite. Fingers crossed he's rejected by the Party membership.

kjh said:

Andy_JS said:

I'm not a fan of Jeremy Hunt as a politician but I think if he becomes leader the Tories probably aren't going to lose many of the so-called Blue Wall seats in Surrey, Hampshire, Sussex, etc.

I strongly agree. He seems ok to me. As I have said before his only real blackmark for me was his dalliance with homeopathy. He claimed it was naivety but he shouldn't have touched that with a barge pole.

So he's since watered-down his dalliance?

Leon said:

AN APPEAL TO PRACTICAL PB-ERS

I am out here in Tbilisi with an expensive piece of big luggage which is close to collapsing. Simply because I travel so much. Zips are fraying. Wheels are loosening

Now a steel rod has sprung from the casing and making it almost unusable. See here




That’s nasty. The metal is also strong and rigid. It won’t just snap off. I’ve tried. What can I do? I’m not sure I can find high quality luggage in Tbilisi to replace it

If I could just get 1-2 more months of use out of this suitcase, I can replace it when I get back to london. Or should I give upon on this bag and scour the Caucasus for a replacement?

Doesn't an International man of mystery such as your self carry a Gerber/Leatherman (alongside your other flint knapping tools) for such an emergency?

Any why the effete zipped bag? Get your self a Samsonite hardshell (with wheels)

If I were Sir Graham Brady I’d book a large meeting room in Parliament. For the lols.
https://twitter.com/charlotteahenry/status/1531631687490318337

Scott_xP said:

Leon said:

AN APPEAL TO PRACTICAL PB-ERS

I am out here in Tbilisi with an expensive piece of big luggage which is close to collapsing. Simply because I travel so much. Zips are fraying. Wheels are loosening

Now a steel rod has sprung from the casing and making it almost unusable. See here




That’s nasty. The metal is also strong and rigid. It won’t just snap off. I’ve tried. What can I do? I’m not sure I can find high quality luggage in Tbilisi to replace it

If I could just get 1-2 more months of use out of this suitcase, I can replace it when I get back to london. Or should I give upon on this bag and scour the Caucasus for a replacement?

Doesn't an International man of mystery such as your self carry a Gerber/Leatherman (alongside your other flint knapping tools) for such an emergency?

Any why the effete zipped bag? Get your self a Samsonite hardshell (with wheels)

I’ve actually got a wire cutter. But this is super strong steel. it scoffs at my attempts to sever it. Needs a metal saw, or enormous wire cutters that you use to steal bikes, as others have said

RochdalePioneers said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

RochdalePioneers said:

kjh said:

Andy_JS said:

I'm not a fan of Jeremy Hunt as a politician but I think if he becomes leader the Tories probably aren't going to lose many of the so-called Blue Wall seats in Surrey, Hampshire, Sussex, etc.

I strongly agree. He seems ok to me. As I have said before his only real blackmark for me was his dalliance with homeopathy. He claimed it was naivety but he shouldn't have touched that with a barge pole.

Misread that as Hunt's dalliance with homosexuality.

Hello!!!!!

Wasn't that Michael Portillo? Not with Hunt I might add.

Also not Portillo:
'A misbooking meant I had to share a bed with my aide. For warmth'

Ah, very like , oh, someone else I seem to remember who was prominent in the Conservative Party. What else would you like me to do Minister? Can you please ensure I don't get cold.

Second place is available on the New Thread

bondegezou said:

MattW said:

bondegezou said:

MattW said:

bondegezou said:

MattW said:

dixiedean said:

Top tip.
Professional landlords. Solve your financial problems by simply getting a proper job.

Why is providing high quality housing services not a proper job?

Houses don't maintain or invest in themselves. Traditionally 15-20% or so of the income goes on maintenance and investment, often done in advance during a full refurbishment with a 10 year+ return period.

So they’re doing 15-20% of a proper job?

What?

You think that businesses are only entitled to one element of their business expenses, and no income?

So a butcher is only entitled to the money paid for meat supplies, and not the revenue that pays for the shop, the staff expenses, the tax and the maintenance of the finance which allowed investment in the business?

I think a butcher makes a small % on top of their costs whereas a landlord makes a very large %. There is a reason why economics has the term “rent seeking”.

Your evidence of that? And that whatever the % is is universally unreasonable?

Bearing in mind the 30-100k investment that may have been made upfront in a refurbishment.

If rents consistently increase more slowly than inflation (which is true), and the quality of accommodation consistently increases (which it does), that actually suggests that it is working quite well.

My evidence for economics having a term “rent seeking”? Look in an economics textbook.

As for landlords, I thought this an interesting article that touches on some of these issues: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13563467.2017.1401055

No - your evidence for LLs taking an excessive %. I have never seen evidence on that.

The article is interesting, but rather hyperbolic and seriously out of date.

It was published in 2017, and the latest data they deal with is from 2012. This is now 2022.

Their basic concept is "Britain’s Post-Homeownership Society". Which is not true - between publication and 2021 home ownership in the UK increased from 63% to 65%.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/home-ownership-rate

AFAICS They don't engage with the fact that, then and now, the UK has one of the smaller Private Rental Sectors in Europe.

Is there any more recent work by these two Profs?

I'd recommend the work of, for example, Dr Julie Rugg (York Uni when I last heard).

Yes, I'm familiar with the term "rent-seeking", and I'm familiar with it as a generalised boo-word. I have yet to see much evidence that "the fact or practice of manipulating public policy or economic conditions as a strategy for increasing profits" exists much in the PRS. Policy changes I have seen seem to run in the other direction.

Mr. Eagles, cheers (sorry for the slow reply, my dog decided to vomit, shit water outside the house, vomit outside the house, and then I had to clean the carpet and buy some rice. I blame Brexit for this).

Leon said:

I’ve actually got a wire cutter. But this is super strong steel. it scoffs at my attempts to sever it. Needs a metal saw, or enormous wire cutters that you use to steal bikes, as others have said

You need to fatigue it. Bend it back and forth a lot. The metal will work harden and eventually shear

Gardenwalker said:

I’m getting worried.

I believe we need a Lab/LD government precisely to deliver the amelioration (not reversal) of Boris’s Brexit; to create a growth economy; and to better protect the very worst off.

Since autumn last year I have been confident that a Boris-led Tory party would lose in ‘24, and that any likely Boris replacement would also do so, if perhaps more narrowly.

But by likely, I assumed the candidates had to be Brexiters.

I can now absolutely see Jeremy Hunt scoring a ‘92 Major-style cling-on. Bloody hell!

I will return to voting Conservative if Hunt were PM, and enthusiastically so. I would probably rejoin the party.

Rent seeking has almost nothing to do with landlords.

FFS.

Applicant said:

.

MattW said:

bondegezou said:

MattW said:

bondegezou said:

MattW said:

dixiedean said:

Top tip.
Professional landlords. Solve your financial problems by simply getting a proper job.

Why is providing high quality housing services not a proper job?

Houses don't maintain or invest in themselves. Traditionally 15-20% or so of the income goes on maintenance and investment, often done in advance during a full refurbishment with a 10 year+ return period.

So they’re doing 15-20% of a proper job?

What?

You think that businesses are only entitled to one element of their business expenses, and no income?

So a butcher is only entitled to the money paid for meat supplies, and not the revenue that pays for the shop, the staff expenses, the tax and the maintenance of the finance which allowed investment in the business?

I think a butcher makes a small % on top of their costs whereas a landlord makes a very large %. There is a reason why economics has the term “rent seeking”.

Your evidence of that? And that whatever the % is is universally unreasonable?

Bearing in mind the 30-100k investment that may have been made upfront in a refurbishment.

If rents consistently increase more slowly than inflation (which is true), and the quality of accommodation consistently increases (which it does), that actually suggests that it is working quite well.

What about the large number of BTL landlords who use the rent to pay their mortgage?

What about it? Businesses need money to invest to create a high quality service, to have a return on the investment.

It's not as if it can be done on zero capital - the max mortgage available is usually around 75%, so 25% cash plus Mr Osborne's 3% CGT surcharge, plus the transaction fees which are usually a couple of thousand or a small %, plus whatever needs to be spent on refurb.

Obvs the lower the % loan the better the terms - going to 60% is normally worth 0.5-0.75% off the interest rate, bit it will still be 1-1.5% or so higher than the comparable for an owner occupier purchase, plus rates of return on mortgages are regulated for sustainability/affordability. Currently at (iirc) actual borrowed rate plus 3%. (But note I have not done one for several years.)