These are the numbers that should really panic Number 10 – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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What?bondegezou said:
So they’re doing 15-20% of a proper job?MattW said:
Why is providing high quality housing services not a proper job?dixiedean said:Top tip.
Professional landlords. Solve your financial problems by simply getting a proper job.
Houses don't maintain or invest in themselves. Traditionally 15-20% or so of the income goes on maintenance and investment, often done in advance during a full refurbishment with a 10 year+ return period.
You think that businesses are only entitled to one element of their business expenses, and no income?
So a butcher is only entitled to the money paid for meat supplies, and not the revenue that pays for the shop, the staff expenses, the tax and the maintenance of the finance which allowed investment in the business?0 -
Decoupling it from the English one seemed so petty. And their argument for doing so, that Covid would reduce participation, has been shown to be completely wrong.Eabhal said:Some SNP types are blaming Unionists for the failure of the census. Could get quite interesting if Sturgeon takes that line too.
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It's frankly terrifying how much of Labour's 1983 manifesto and Corbyn's went dreams this government are actually delivering.MaxPB said:
I've honestly never known a Tory government to simply give up on supply side economics. It's as if Rishi has just thrown away all of the first year economics text books and decided that pumping up demand is going to solve the inflation problem. Completely mad.TheScreamingEagles said:
I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.MaxPB said:
My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, I said this is socialism.tlg86 said:https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/
If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.
Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.
Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
I remember how we used to criticise Labour for protecting their voters in the public sector and the Tories are doing even worse protecting the oldies.
That NI rankles, I mean I don't mind paying, but oldies get exempted from it.
Apply the same level of taper rate we do for universal credit on incomes for pensioners earning more than the state pension.3 -
It's just that nowadays so many people want a handout, want others to take responsibility and won't stand on their own two feet! And this government is encouraging that mentality!!NerysHughes said:
It is reflected in the fact that discretionary spending is still happening to a very large extent.rottenborough said:Julian Jessop 🇬🇧 🇺🇦
@julianHjessop
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1h
Another reason why the UK economy should avoid a #recession...
This morning's Bank of England money and credit data confirm that the household sector as a whole (not everyone, of course) still has plenty of excess savings accumulated during the pandemic 👇
https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1531571901251854336
I keep hearing about a cost of living crisis, compare now with the early 80's, early 90s, 2008, those must have been a cost of living armageddon.
Millions of ordinary people have plenty of money at the moment.
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Tbf. I can think of twenty worse in the current Cabinet.wooliedyed said:
He was a campaigner for expenses transparency though and he wasn't accused of duck house silliness, just a large bill.dixiedean said:
Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.wooliedyed said:
My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))rottenborough said:This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....
"And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."
Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
Yeah, hed be a risk but, on quick reflection after Dads comments, i think he might be an option as relatively unknown and thus clearer of taint. His military service wont hurt him.
If the Tories want to play safe, stop the LD advance as much as possible, give up some red wall ground (but maybe retain the likes of Bishop Auckland etc) and restrict 2024 to 'at worst' opposition against a minority labour govt they'll go for Hunt
My issue is this. He's been an MP since 2005. Took him 14 years to make Cabinet. 10 years to make a Junior Minister. Hardly a fast track high flyer. Did no one spot the talent of a future PM for a decade?
He's had the easiest wicket in government since then. Nowt much to do during the pandemic. Then a War with a policy on which there isn't any disagreement, which thrusts him into the media spotlight.
He's good there. But he hasn't taken a single difficult decision as far as I can tell.1 -
Does anybody think that after a year in Government, Labour would still be thought of as "low tax"?wooliedyed said:
Hes given labour a double digit lead as party of low tax. Quite insane.MaxPB said:
I've honestly never known a Tory government to simply give up on supply side economics. It's as if Rishi has just thrown away all of the first year economics text books and decided that pumping up demand is going to solve the inflation problem. Completely mad.TheScreamingEagles said:
I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.MaxPB said:
My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, I said this is socialism.tlg86 said:https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/
If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.
Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.
Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
Not a cat in hell's chance.
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N’est-ce pas, with a “-ce”, confusingly.rottenborough said:Oh!! This is massive n'est pas?
Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
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1h
There’s a myth doing rounds that once Brady has got letters to trigger a vote he goes back to each Tory MP to check with them
This is untrue - when threshold is crossed vote it triggered
It makes Chief Whip’s plan to submit 10 letters and withdraw them to save PM precarious
It’s a bit of bizarre system. You feel it should at least have a reset process, like at the beginning of the Parliamentary term, all older letters are thrown away and people have to re-send if they still feel that way.0 -
The reset system is MPs deciding they once again have confidence in the leader, and withdrawing their letter. No need for it to be automatic.bondegezou said:
N’est-ce pas, with a “-ce”, confusingly.rottenborough said:Oh!! This is massive n'est pas?
Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
·
1h
There’s a myth doing rounds that once Brady has got letters to trigger a vote he goes back to each Tory MP to check with them
This is untrue - when threshold is crossed vote it triggered
It makes Chief Whip’s plan to submit 10 letters and withdraw them to save PM precarious
It’s a bit of bizarre system. You feel it should at least have a reset process, like at the beginning of the Parliamentary term, all older letters are thrown away and people have to re-send if they still feel that way.2 -
I'm shocked*, frankly, as an alumnus.Sandpit said:
Ah yes, more Tory bigots stoking a culture war.FrancisUrquhart said:Trans activist who heckled Nadhim Zahawi off Warwick University campus is the son of Ed Balls and Labour Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper
In video posted by the Warwick Labour society, Joel Cooper interrupts the Education Secretary's Q&A to heckle him over his stance on trans rights. He then sits down after his monologue to cheers from fellow Labour activists
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10870697/Trans-activist-heckled-Nadhim-Zahawi-Warwick-University-campus-son-Yvette-Cooper.html
I believe there was a bit of a dust up yesterday on here with at the time unsupported claims there was a Labour angle involved in this story.
*That Warwick has a Conservative Association
(More seriously, the area where most of the chanting can be seen is public - to students/staff, at least - space within the arts centre and one of the thoroughfares of the university, if I identify it correctly. People should be free to protest there, as they should be outside the building, if they wish. Would be good to see them moved on though if causing an obstruction and/or disrupting events within the meeting room, e.g. if the sound carried - I seem to recall two sets of doors to the theatre, so may not have carried through. I'd also like to think they could do a bit better than "Tory scum". I do also find it distasteful and unfair to single out Cooper simply because of who his parents are).0 -
MPs can withdraw their letter at any time. Old lady Brady seems to be a fair enough arbiter on these matters.bondegezou said:
N’est-ce pas, with a “-ce”, confusingly.rottenborough said:Oh!! This is massive n'est pas?
Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
·
1h
There’s a myth doing rounds that once Brady has got letters to trigger a vote he goes back to each Tory MP to check with them
This is untrue - when threshold is crossed vote it triggered
It makes Chief Whip’s plan to submit 10 letters and withdraw them to save PM precarious
It’s a bit of bizarre system. You feel it should at least have a reset process, like at the beginning of the Parliamentary term, all older letters are thrown away and people have to re-send if they still feel that way.0 -
I note it's reported BMW are considering moving to a cylindrical battery format for their EVs.Nigel_Foremain said:
It was the BIK that sold it to me. That and the absurd acceleration! It is also very good to drive, and in spite of what the plonkerish CEO of BMW said, easily as good as any of the German cars I have had.RochdalePioneers said:
Have got a Tesla Model Y on order which I have deferred back into Q3 whilst awaiting work stuff to become more clear. Moving car costs to pre tax from post tax makes a lot of sense. Only problem is that I am becoming more attached to my Outlander PHEV now that I've reserved its replacement.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.ydoethur said:
With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.Nigel_Foremain said:
Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.Peter_the_Punter said:
What do you drive, a chieftain tank?PJH said:
I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!Heathener said:
Indeed.wooliedyed said:
Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.NickPalmer said:I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?
Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.
A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.
I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.
If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
Fuel costs are only one part of the total cost - and however great pence per mile may look at the moment on leccy vs dino juice, that equation will keep changing.0 -
Hurrah for the Aussies.
Australia’s new Labor prime minister has created an “assistant minister for the republic”, sparking celebrations among those who wish to end the Queen’s role as head of state.
Anthony Albanese announced that Matt Thistlethwaite, a Sydney MP, would take the role. Previous Labor leaders have promised a referendum on removing the Queen as Australia’s head of state but Albanese, a long-time republican, did not make the promise a feature of his election campaign before his victory in last week’s general election.
“We are on our way!” tweeted the author and former rugby international Peter FitzSimons, a prominent republican. “Let the record show, for the first time in the history of the Commonwealth, Australia has a member of the government singularly devoted to removing the Crown, and helping Australia become a republic,” he added.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/australias-anthony-albanese-appoints-minister-for-republic-as-debate-to-remove-queen-grows-zsh653kwb
Means I will no longer be able to sing 'God save YOUR Queen' to the Aussies at cricket and rugby matches.1 -
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
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I talked with someone in the compliance world yesterday. He reckons that secondary markets/touts for football matches are heavily used for money laundering.Leon said:
St Denis is far worse than Brixton or streatham. There isn’t really an equivalent in London, not even Tottenham - it’s not just the deprivation, there is a seething hatred of the authorities and police, all of it mixed in a toxic, lawless brew of Islamism and radicalismBenpointer said:
Bit harsh on Brixton and Streatham!Sandpit said:
The French decided to take the equivalent of a random 150m x 100m piece of land between Brixton and Streatham, and put the national stadium there, with no other improvements to the area, making sure that all the stadium’s visitors would have to park in or walk through the dodgiest part of the city to get there.dixiedean said:
Indeed. Stratford was hardly a desirable location when we built ours.Sandpit said:
It made no sense at all to build the stadium where they did, without also clearing the slums actively regenerating the whole area around it.Leon said:
Why they built the French national stadium in - literally - the worst, most dangerous part of France - is quite the mystery. I guess they hoped it would boost the area?MattW said:
And the Spanish media is filled with similar accounts of chaos and mugging gangs.Leon said:
The French public and media are not buying the minister’s feeble diversions, however. He’s getting fierce criticism from Left and Right. The Left are blaming the government and police, the Right are blaming the scum of the suburbs, and the socialists that try to excuse themboulay said:
Rugby World Cup there first. Saturday will ultimately save France from a worse bashing - they will throw everything at it to ensure nothing like it happens during the World Cup - I imagine the police will be ringing the whole area to avoid the mugging etc rather than focussing onwards on the fans.tlg86 said:
The Olympic Games will be fun in 2024.Leon said:An authoritative account of the Disaster of St Denis
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/champions-league-paris-final-fiasco-triggers-hillsborough-survivor-trauma?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
What strikes me is the pathetic inertia and complacency of the UEFA and FIFA officials, even when told of the horrible chaos outside the stadium, going on there and then. Shameful
If that sort of behaviour happened at the World Cup then it would point to the police/authorities but if they do everything to avoid it they will no doubt say “see, we told you it was those naughty Liverpool fans”.
I see the French sports minister has doubled down blaming it on Liverpool “letting their fans out into the wild”. If that’s the case they seem to have encountered the savages of St Denis on this safari. Who knew that the suburbs of Paris were the “wilds”?
Virtually no one - in France - is blaming the Liverpool fans. Across all the newspapers it is “France wins the trophy for incompetence “ or “France is humiliated on the world stage”. They are taking it seriously and it is still front page news
Must be quite a shock for Macron and friends that the strategy of "1) Blame the Brits" followed by "2) Lie your heads off" has stopped working.
Even France 24 are calling them out on it.
I think the thing that will hurt is questions about whether this will happen at the 2024 Olympics. eg Will anybody standing in a queue or presenting a ticket at a turnstyle at Paris 2024 be at risk of random assault by Police Officers with Pepper Spray, and how will such police officers be held to account.
Now it’s a source of national humiliation
As banking and other areas have tightened up (somewhat!) the bad guys are searching for new avenues.
Football tickets with very high faces values are perfect for this. As is the ability to sell them for actual cash. The easy to forge bit then appeals to the criminals who think of it as increasing the take on the laundering.
See the career of Rudi Kurniwan
While this fuck up doesn’t seem to be mostly about fake tickets, this is something that needs dealing with.0 -
No he wouldn't.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
Brexit is over.
And we're nowhere near majority land anyways.0 -
A big risk, yes. But less baggage with which to be blown off course.dixiedean said:
Tbf. I can think of twenty worse in the current Cabinet.wooliedyed said:
He was a campaigner for expenses transparency though and he wasn't accused of duck house silliness, just a large bill.dixiedean said:
Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.wooliedyed said:
My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))rottenborough said:This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....
"And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."
Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
Yeah, hed be a risk but, on quick reflection after Dads comments, i think he might be an option as relatively unknown and thus clearer of taint. His military service wont hurt him.
If the Tories want to play safe, stop the LD advance as much as possible, give up some red wall ground (but maybe retain the likes of Bishop Auckland etc) and restrict 2024 to 'at worst' opposition against a minority labour govt they'll go for Hunt
My issue is this. He's been an MP since 2005. Took him 14 years to make Cabinet. 10 years to make a Junior Minister. Hardly a fast track high flyer. Did no one spot the talent of a future PM for a decade?
He's had the easiest wicket in government since then. Nowt much to do during the pandemic. Then a War with a policy on which there isn't any disagreement, which thrusts him into the media spotlight.
He's good there. But he hasn't taken a single difficult decision as far as I can tell.
If he is a a decent bloke as Dad suggests, maybe we need that as a country to settle down in the face of crises. Get a decent team and face off the crises whilst the scandal fest dissipates0 -
Like this?Nigelb said:
I note it's reported BMW are considering moving to a cylindrical battery format for their EVs.Nigel_Foremain said:
It was the BIK that sold it to me. That and the absurd acceleration! It is also very good to drive, and in spite of what the plonkerish CEO of BMW said, easily as good as any of the German cars I have had.RochdalePioneers said:
Have got a Tesla Model Y on order which I have deferred back into Q3 whilst awaiting work stuff to become more clear. Moving car costs to pre tax from post tax makes a lot of sense. Only problem is that I am becoming more attached to my Outlander PHEV now that I've reserved its replacement.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.ydoethur said:
With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.Nigel_Foremain said:
Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.Peter_the_Punter said:
What do you drive, a chieftain tank?PJH said:
I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!Heathener said:
Indeed.wooliedyed said:
Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.NickPalmer said:I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?
Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.
A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.
I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.
If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
Fuel costs are only one part of the total cost - and however great pence per mile may look at the moment on leccy vs dino juice, that equation will keep changing.
(As this is pedant central, yes I do know that's a cell, not a battery!)1 -
The direct quotes of shit that Johnson has said about money, etc sound all too believable.Stuartinromford said:Meanwhile, this is interesting, even if one doesn't believe a single word of it.
https://unherd.com/2022/05/dominic-cummings-i-dont-like-parties/
The rest of it where he tries to market himself as a cross between Stafford Beer and Leclerc Du Tremblay is less convincing.2 -
Excellent point in The Times.
Some 29 have openly questioned Johnson’s leadership, with a further 15 publicly criticising him since the publication of Sue Gray’s report into parties in Downing Street during lockdown.
It may appear that Johnson is safe. However, some Tory MPs are understood to have submitted letters without publicly declaring that they have done so. In 2018, only 27 Tory MPs had gone public with their demands for a confidence vote in Theresa May when the threshold of 48 at the time was met, triggering a ballot.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-are-the-tory-rebels-and-what-have-they-said-about-boris-johnson-gmx25ltlw1 -
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble0 -
The airports are run for the benefit ofPulpstar said:Who runs the airports ?
Seem to be thick as mince.
1) the owners
2) the airlines
3) the security people
4) the various retailers.
.
.
187) the passengers2 -
I must have missed the bit where the UK government welded the houses of citizens?MISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.1 -
Well, no, but letting them be thought that now is helping them in to dash those hopes laterMarqueeMark said:
Does anybody think that after a year in Government, Labour would still be thought of as "low tax"?wooliedyed said:
Hes given labour a double digit lead as party of low tax. Quite insane.MaxPB said:
I've honestly never known a Tory government to simply give up on supply side economics. It's as if Rishi has just thrown away all of the first year economics text books and decided that pumping up demand is going to solve the inflation problem. Completely mad.TheScreamingEagles said:
I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.MaxPB said:
My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, I said this is socialism.tlg86 said:https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/
If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.
Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.
Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
Not a cat in hell's chance.0 -
I suspect Wallace would last about 10 minutes, if he were actually made leader, before revealing his complete inadequacy for the step up from minister to PM.wooliedyed said:
My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))rottenborough said:This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....
"And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."
Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
0 -
The big problem for all competitors to Tesla have is that they don't have the charger network. Other EV users I know have had serious problems with charging. I have had none with my Tesla. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have never had to wait. Famous last words!Nigelb said:
I note it's reported BMW are considering moving to a cylindrical battery format for their EVs.Nigel_Foremain said:
It was the BIK that sold it to me. That and the absurd acceleration! It is also very good to drive, and in spite of what the plonkerish CEO of BMW said, easily as good as any of the German cars I have had.RochdalePioneers said:
Have got a Tesla Model Y on order which I have deferred back into Q3 whilst awaiting work stuff to become more clear. Moving car costs to pre tax from post tax makes a lot of sense. Only problem is that I am becoming more attached to my Outlander PHEV now that I've reserved its replacement.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.ydoethur said:
With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.Nigel_Foremain said:
Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.Peter_the_Punter said:
What do you drive, a chieftain tank?PJH said:
I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!Heathener said:
Indeed.wooliedyed said:
Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.NickPalmer said:I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?
Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.
A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.
I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.
If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
Fuel costs are only one part of the total cost - and however great pence per mile may look at the moment on leccy vs dino juice, that equation will keep changing.0 -
He would. He will have the entire class of Guardianista badgering him to do it. And he could - as I say - justify it as helping the economy. And it will chime with his own fundamental instincts. What is the point in winning a majority if you don’t then do something important and profound which 1. You believe is right 2. Everyone you know believes is right and 3. Is arguably good for the economy and the British people?dixiedean said:
No he wouldn't.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
Brexit is over.
And remember, when it happens: you read it here first
This is of course dependant on him winning an actual majority. Dunno how this pans out if he is a NOM PM. It may be the price of SNP support? Rejoin the SM? Possible0 -
One thing (and it may be only one thing) I like about Dom is his bracing lack of interest in being liked. This may be the result of contrasting him with his erstwhile porcine overlord who I think wants to be liked but is only capable of projecting some ghastly caricature of what he thinks a likeable and loveable person should be.Stuartinromford said:Meanwhile, this is interesting, even if one doesn't believe a single word of it.
https://unherd.com/2022/05/dominic-cummings-i-dont-like-parties/0 -
The irony is that elsewhere forged tickets are no longer an issue because the introduction of mobile phones has created means by which it's possible to fake tickets thanks to feedback loops.Malmesbury said:
I talked with someone in the compliance world yesterday. He reckons that secondary markets/touts for football matches are heavily used for money laundering.Leon said:
St Denis is far worse than Brixton or streatham. There isn’t really an equivalent in London, not even Tottenham - it’s not just the deprivation, there is a seething hatred of the authorities and police, all of it mixed in a toxic, lawless brew of Islamism and radicalismBenpointer said:
Bit harsh on Brixton and Streatham!Sandpit said:
The French decided to take the equivalent of a random 150m x 100m piece of land between Brixton and Streatham, and put the national stadium there, with no other improvements to the area, making sure that all the stadium’s visitors would have to park in or walk through the dodgiest part of the city to get there.dixiedean said:
Indeed. Stratford was hardly a desirable location when we built ours.Sandpit said:
It made no sense at all to build the stadium where they did, without also clearing the slums actively regenerating the whole area around it.Leon said:
Why they built the French national stadium in - literally - the worst, most dangerous part of France - is quite the mystery. I guess they hoped it would boost the area?MattW said:
And the Spanish media is filled with similar accounts of chaos and mugging gangs.Leon said:
The French public and media are not buying the minister’s feeble diversions, however. He’s getting fierce criticism from Left and Right. The Left are blaming the government and police, the Right are blaming the scum of the suburbs, and the socialists that try to excuse themboulay said:
Rugby World Cup there first. Saturday will ultimately save France from a worse bashing - they will throw everything at it to ensure nothing like it happens during the World Cup - I imagine the police will be ringing the whole area to avoid the mugging etc rather than focussing onwards on the fans.tlg86 said:
The Olympic Games will be fun in 2024.Leon said:An authoritative account of the Disaster of St Denis
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/champions-league-paris-final-fiasco-triggers-hillsborough-survivor-trauma?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
What strikes me is the pathetic inertia and complacency of the UEFA and FIFA officials, even when told of the horrible chaos outside the stadium, going on there and then. Shameful
If that sort of behaviour happened at the World Cup then it would point to the police/authorities but if they do everything to avoid it they will no doubt say “see, we told you it was those naughty Liverpool fans”.
I see the French sports minister has doubled down blaming it on Liverpool “letting their fans out into the wild”. If that’s the case they seem to have encountered the savages of St Denis on this safari. Who knew that the suburbs of Paris were the “wilds”?
Virtually no one - in France - is blaming the Liverpool fans. Across all the newspapers it is “France wins the trophy for incompetence “ or “France is humiliated on the world stage”. They are taking it seriously and it is still front page news
Must be quite a shock for Macron and friends that the strategy of "1) Blame the Brits" followed by "2) Lie your heads off" has stopped working.
Even France 24 are calling them out on it.
I think the thing that will hurt is questions about whether this will happen at the 2024 Olympics. eg Will anybody standing in a queue or presenting a ticket at a turnstyle at Paris 2024 be at risk of random assault by Police Officers with Pepper Spray, and how will such police officers be held to account.
Now it’s a source of national humiliation
As banking and other areas have tightened up (somewhat!) the bad guys are searching for new avenues.
Football tickets with very high faces values are perfect for this. As is the ability to sell them for actual cash. The easy to forge bit then appeals to the criminals who think of it as increasing the take on the laundering.
See the career of Rudi Kurniwan
While this fuck up doesn’t seem to be mostly about fake tickets, this is something that needs dealing with.
Anyone who has attended a concert post covid must have seen the dynamic tickets Ticketmaster and others put on your phone to use.0 -
He cant be worse than the current incumbent. Pretty low bar TBFNigelb said:
I suspect Wallace would last about 10 minutes, if he were actually made leader, before revealing his complete inadequacy for the step up from minister to PM.wooliedyed said:
My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))rottenborough said:This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....
"And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."
Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'1 -
I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg60 -
The only thing about a reversal of Brexit would be the lols. Otherwise it is as pointless as leaving was in the first place. Massive unnecessary upheaval.Leon said:
He would. He will have the entire class of Guardianista badgering him to do it. And he could - as I say - justify it as helping the economy. And it will chime with his own fundamental instincts. What is the point in winning a majority if you don’t then do something important and profound which 1. You believe is right 2. Everyone you know believes is right and 3. Is arguably good for the economy and the British people?dixiedean said:
No he wouldn't.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
Brexit is over.
And remember, when it happens: you read it here first
This is of course dependant on him winning an actual majority. Dunno how this pans out if he is a NOM PM. It may be the price of SNP support? Rejoin the SM? Possible1 -
LDs will want that and a referendum on PR for propping him up for sureLeon said:
He would. He will have the entire class of Guardianista badgering him to do it. And he could - as I say - justify it as helping the economy. And it will chime with his own fundamental instincts. What is the point in winning a majority if you don’t then do something important and profound which 1. You believe is right 2. Everyone you know believes is right and 3. Is arguably good for the economy and the British people?dixiedean said:
No he wouldn't.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
Brexit is over.
And remember, when it happens: you read it here first
This is of course dependant on him winning an actual majority. Dunno how this pans out if he is a NOM PM. It may be the price of SNP support? Rejoin the SM? Possible0 -
Hague. "To be an effective Party they have to rally behind the leader or force him out."
Spot on.0 -
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters0 -
Well I believe him on the headline - after all, he's done his level best to destroy the Tory party. Not without help from the top.Stuartinromford said:Meanwhile, this is interesting, even if one doesn't believe a single word of it.
https://unherd.com/2022/05/dominic-cummings-i-dont-like-parties/0 -
Brexit offered people their own personal unicorn. The end result was always going to be disappointment for some people. The only difference between dreams and reality is that in this reality absolutely everyone is disappointed with the Brexit that Bozo created / achieved.Nigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble1 -
It won't even survive the Manifesto.wooliedyed said:
Well, no, but letting them be thought that now is helping them in to dash those hopes laterMarqueeMark said:
Does anybody think that after a year in Government, Labour would still be thought of as "low tax"?wooliedyed said:
Hes given labour a double digit lead as party of low tax. Quite insane.MaxPB said:
I've honestly never known a Tory government to simply give up on supply side economics. It's as if Rishi has just thrown away all of the first year economics text books and decided that pumping up demand is going to solve the inflation problem. Completely mad.TheScreamingEagles said:
I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.MaxPB said:
My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, I said this is socialism.tlg86 said:https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/
If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.
Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.
Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
Not a cat in hell's chance.1 -
It would also be very popular because it would annoy tories.Nigel_Foremain said:
The only thing about a reversal of Brexit would be the lols. Otherwise it is as pointless as leaving was in the first place. Massive unnecessary upheaval.Leon said:
He would. He will have the entire class of Guardianista badgering him to do it. And he could - as I say - justify it as helping the economy. And it will chime with his own fundamental instincts. What is the point in winning a majority if you don’t then do something important and profound which 1. You believe is right 2. Everyone you know believes is right and 3. Is arguably good for the economy and the British people?dixiedean said:
No he wouldn't.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
Brexit is over.
And remember, when it happens: you read it here first
This is of course dependant on him winning an actual majority. Dunno how this pans out if he is a NOM PM. It may be the price of SNP support? Rejoin the SM? Possible0 -
That's very interesting indeed - I believe every word of it.Stuartinromford said:Meanwhile, this is interesting, even if one doesn't believe a single word of it.
https://unherd.com/2022/05/dominic-cummings-i-dont-like-parties/
Amongst the very interesting parts, this on the inquiry: "I think the Covid inquiry will show that groupthink was a very serious problem."1 -
And how can they possibly do the former with a straight facedixiedean said:Hague. "To be an effective Party they have to rally behind the leader or force him out."
Spot on.0 -
.
Well probably not.Nigel_Foremain said:
He cant be worse than the current incumbent. Pretty low bar TBFNigelb said:
I suspect Wallace would last about 10 minutes, if he were actually made leader, before revealing his complete inadequacy for the step up from minister to PM.wooliedyed said:
My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))rottenborough said:This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....
"And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."
Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
Though you'd think a self respecting party would aim a little higher than that.0 -
There's a lot of sense in that, and there's an element of flavour of the month. I'm reminded Andrea Leadsom (back in the news today) made the ballot for the leadership in 2016, and it was only when she opened her mouth that everyone realised how daft that was.dixiedean said:
Tbf. I can think of twenty worse in the current Cabinet.wooliedyed said:
He was a campaigner for expenses transparency though and he wasn't accused of duck house silliness, just a large bill.dixiedean said:
Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.wooliedyed said:
My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))rottenborough said:This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....
"And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."
Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
Yeah, hed be a risk but, on quick reflection after Dads comments, i think he might be an option as relatively unknown and thus clearer of taint. His military service wont hurt him.
If the Tories want to play safe, stop the LD advance as much as possible, give up some red wall ground (but maybe retain the likes of Bishop Auckland etc) and restrict 2024 to 'at worst' opposition against a minority labour govt they'll go for Hunt
My issue is this. He's been an MP since 2005. Took him 14 years to make Cabinet. 10 years to make a Junior Minister. Hardly a fast track high flyer. Did no one spot the talent of a future PM for a decade?
He's had the easiest wicket in government since then. Nowt much to do during the pandemic. Then a War with a policy on which there isn't any disagreement, which thrusts him into the media spotlight.
He's good there. But he hasn't taken a single difficult decision as far as I can tell.
On the other hand, I'd not read too much into his not being recognised immediately by senior colleagues - some people are growers, not showers. To use a football analogy that may appeal, Jamie Vardy was dropped by Sheffield Wednesday as a trainee, and worked his way up through non-league.0 -
Must be a strange juxtaposition for Liverpool fans to be "*targeted* by thieves.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg60 -
I think a butcher makes a small % on top of their costs whereas a landlord makes a very large %. There is a reason why economics has the term “rent seeking”.MattW said:
What?bondegezou said:
So they’re doing 15-20% of a proper job?MattW said:
Why is providing high quality housing services not a proper job?dixiedean said:Top tip.
Professional landlords. Solve your financial problems by simply getting a proper job.
Houses don't maintain or invest in themselves. Traditionally 15-20% or so of the income goes on maintenance and investment, often done in advance during a full refurbishment with a 10 year+ return period.
You think that businesses are only entitled to one element of their business expenses, and no income?
So a butcher is only entitled to the money paid for meat supplies, and not the revenue that pays for the shop, the staff expenses, the tax and the maintenance of the finance which allowed investment in the business?0 -
Right now the only thing that would make me vote Tory next time is if Labour are foolish enough to restart the Brexit Wars. Starmer better have a good answer lined up for the inevitable question during the campaign or he’ll tank.MarqueeMark said:
It won't even survive the Manifesto.wooliedyed said:
Well, no, but letting them be thought that now is helping them in to dash those hopes laterMarqueeMark said:
Does anybody think that after a year in Government, Labour would still be thought of as "low tax"?wooliedyed said:
Hes given labour a double digit lead as party of low tax. Quite insane.MaxPB said:
I've honestly never known a Tory government to simply give up on supply side economics. It's as if Rishi has just thrown away all of the first year economics text books and decided that pumping up demand is going to solve the inflation problem. Completely mad.TheScreamingEagles said:
I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.MaxPB said:
My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, I said this is socialism.tlg86 said:https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/
If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.
Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.
Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
Not a cat in hell's chance.0 -
But that isn't "reversing Brexit".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters0 -
Sounds ideal. I'd be happy with that. Probably inevitable so I would stop worrying about it.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters0 -
John Stevenson writes.0
-
Deleted. Why am i posting about Grant sodding Holt?! Im going slightly (more) insaneSirNorfolkPassmore said:
There's a lot of sense in that, and there's an element of flavour of the month. I'm reminded Andrea Leadsom (back in the news today) made the ballot for the leadership in 2016, and it was only when she opened her mouth that everyone realised how daft that was.dixiedean said:
Tbf. I can think of twenty worse in the current Cabinet.wooliedyed said:
He was a campaigner for expenses transparency though and he wasn't accused of duck house silliness, just a large bill.dixiedean said:
Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.wooliedyed said:
My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))rottenborough said:This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....
"And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."
Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
Yeah, hed be a risk but, on quick reflection after Dads comments, i think he might be an option as relatively unknown and thus clearer of taint. His military service wont hurt him.
If the Tories want to play safe, stop the LD advance as much as possible, give up some red wall ground (but maybe retain the likes of Bishop Auckland etc) and restrict 2024 to 'at worst' opposition against a minority labour govt they'll go for Hunt
My issue is this. He's been an MP since 2005. Took him 14 years to make Cabinet. 10 years to make a Junior Minister. Hardly a fast track high flyer. Did no one spot the talent of a future PM for a decade?
He's had the easiest wicket in government since then. Nowt much to do during the pandemic. Then a War with a policy on which there isn't any disagreement, which thrusts him into the media spotlight.
He's good there. But he hasn't taken a single difficult decision as far as I can tell.
On the other hand, I'd not read too much into his not being recognised immediately by senior colleagues - some people are growers, not showers. To use a football analogy that may appeal, Jamie Vardy was dropped by Sheffield Wednesday as a trainee, and worked his way up through non-league.
0 -
I literally said “REVERSE BREXIT IN SOME FORM. NOT IMMEDIATELY REJOIN, NOT YET, BUT RE-ENTER THE SINGLE MARKET”dixiedean said:
But that isn't "reversing Brexit".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
FFS, read the comments1 -
It is probably implementing what a lot of people would have voted for if they had had a third optiondixiedean said:
But that isn't "reversing Brexit".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters1 -
Your evidence of that? And that whatever the % is is universally unreasonable?bondegezou said:
I think a butcher makes a small % on top of their costs whereas a landlord makes a very large %. There is a reason why economics has the term “rent seeking”.MattW said:
What?bondegezou said:
So they’re doing 15-20% of a proper job?MattW said:
Why is providing high quality housing services not a proper job?dixiedean said:Top tip.
Professional landlords. Solve your financial problems by simply getting a proper job.
Houses don't maintain or invest in themselves. Traditionally 15-20% or so of the income goes on maintenance and investment, often done in advance during a full refurbishment with a 10 year+ return period.
You think that businesses are only entitled to one element of their business expenses, and no income?
So a butcher is only entitled to the money paid for meat supplies, and not the revenue that pays for the shop, the staff expenses, the tax and the maintenance of the finance which allowed investment in the business?
Bearing in mind the 30-100k investment that may have been made upfront in a refurbishment.
If rents consistently increase more slowly than inflation (which is true), and the quality of accommodation consistently increases (which it does), that actually suggests that it is working quite well.0 -
Like Tesla.Selebian said:
Like this?Nigelb said:
I note it's reported BMW are considering moving to a cylindrical battery format for their EVs.Nigel_Foremain said:
It was the BIK that sold it to me. That and the absurd acceleration! It is also very good to drive, and in spite of what the plonkerish CEO of BMW said, easily as good as any of the German cars I have had.RochdalePioneers said:
Have got a Tesla Model Y on order which I have deferred back into Q3 whilst awaiting work stuff to become more clear. Moving car costs to pre tax from post tax makes a lot of sense. Only problem is that I am becoming more attached to my Outlander PHEV now that I've reserved its replacement.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.ydoethur said:
With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.Nigel_Foremain said:
Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.Peter_the_Punter said:
What do you drive, a chieftain tank?PJH said:
I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!Heathener said:
Indeed.wooliedyed said:
Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.NickPalmer said:I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?
Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.
A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.
I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.
If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
Fuel costs are only one part of the total cost - and however great pence per mile may look at the moment on leccy vs dino juice, that equation will keep changing.
...0 -
Well. Most of them aren't from there.Nigel_Foremain said:
Must be a strange juxtaposition for Liverpool fans to be "*targeted* by thieves.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg61 -
Which isn't reversing Brexit in some form. Unless you think re-writing the NI Protocol is also reversing it as well.Leon said:
I literally said “REVERSE BREXIT IN SOME FORM. NOT IMMEDIATELY REJOIN, NOT YET, BUT RE-ENTER THE SINGLE MARKET”dixiedean said:
But that isn't "reversing Brexit".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
FFS, read the comments0 -
Good way to send the UK into Gillets Jaune territory.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters0 -
I’m not “worrying”. I’m sitting on my ridiculously ramshackle new Tbilisi terrace staring across the old town at Shameba cathedral sipping cold white Georgian wine as I listen to the small children argue in Ossetian just below meNigel_Foremain said:
Sounds ideal. I'd be happy with that. Probably inevitable so I would stop worrying about it.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
It’s brilliant.
I too would be OK with Freedom of Movement restored. But many won’t be. Yet that is the direction PM Starmer will want to go, emotionally1 -
Hang on, that suggests that Liverpool fans weren't treated any differently to the Real fans. Yet the Real fans seemed to be in the ground in plenty of time.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg60 -
Which, in the mildly unlikely event of an incoming government adopting it as a priority, wouldn't be 'reversing' Brexit.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters0 -
They were targeted, just not as robustly as Liverpool fans were.tlg86 said:
Hang on, that suggests that Liverpool fans weren't treated any differently to the Real fans. Yet the Real fans seemed to be in the ground in plenty of time.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg60 -
I actually think fairly quickly people on here (even before kick-off) said hold on a minute look at the videos there is a pattern here and it doesn't seem on the whole to be anything to do with English, I mean Scouse, Liverpool fans. Not unless the Liverpool fanbase has suddenly become overwhelmingly dominated by fluent French speakers of North African descent.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg6
Although have to be careful in pigeonholing I heard there are some genuine Liverpool fans who wear genuine £2000 shoes and speak fluent French with no hint of a scouse accent. They could easily be labelled as not a genuine fan.1 -
Because they weren't fakes.tlg86 said:
Hang on, that suggests that Liverpool fans weren't treated any differently to the Real fans. Yet the Real fans seemed to be in the ground in plenty of time.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg6
I thank you.1 -
The only thing which would shake my determination to vote Labour next time would be a promise to waste 5 years banging on about Brexit.
Might as well have the Tories. At least they are good at it.1 -
We read the comments.Leon said:
I literally said “REVERSE BREXIT IN SOME FORM. NOT IMMEDIATELY REJOIN, NOT YET, BUT RE-ENTER THE SINGLE MARKET”dixiedean said:
But that isn't "reversing Brexit".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
FFS, read the comments
That's not reversing Brexit.1 -
Poverty and violence tourists encounter violent poor people.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg61 -
Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters2 -
Heaven forfend that Keir Starmer do something that would "solve a lot of problems".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
It will lead to electoral DOOM, I tell you.0 -
The Liverpool fans entrance was via a different route to the Madrid fans. Reading on French twitter threads yesterday they were saying there was an issue with the metro station that takes you to that part of the stadium and the access is also different and so the bad access points that were made worse by police narrowing them added to the different layout of approach and arrival contributed to two different outcomes.tlg86 said:
Hang on, that suggests that Liverpool fans weren't treated any differently to the Real fans. Yet the Real fans seemed to be in the ground in plenty of time.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg6
0 -
Look at this courtyard on my immediate right
How fucking brilliant is that? Earlier there was literally A SHIRTLESS, VILLAINOUS LOOKING MAN standing at that wooden window. I’ve no doubt he will soon burst into Neapolitan-esque song, and then hurl obscure and violent curses at me - which I won’t even understand, and I shall smile unsurely and wave and say “gamarjoba”, with a hint of British awkwardness0 -
.
What about the large number of BTL landlords who use the rent to pay their mortgage?MattW said:
Your evidence of that? And that whatever the % is is universally unreasonable?bondegezou said:
I think a butcher makes a small % on top of their costs whereas a landlord makes a very large %. There is a reason why economics has the term “rent seeking”.MattW said:
What?bondegezou said:
So they’re doing 15-20% of a proper job?MattW said:
Why is providing high quality housing services not a proper job?dixiedean said:Top tip.
Professional landlords. Solve your financial problems by simply getting a proper job.
Houses don't maintain or invest in themselves. Traditionally 15-20% or so of the income goes on maintenance and investment, often done in advance during a full refurbishment with a 10 year+ return period.
You think that businesses are only entitled to one element of their business expenses, and no income?
So a butcher is only entitled to the money paid for meat supplies, and not the revenue that pays for the shop, the staff expenses, the tax and the maintenance of the finance which allowed investment in the business?
Bearing in mind the 30-100k investment that may have been made upfront in a refurbishment.
If rents consistently increase more slowly than inflation (which is true), and the quality of accommodation consistently increases (which it does), that actually suggests that it is working quite well.0 -
Problems you say?Leon said:
...solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble0 -
Even this would lead to reigniting the foulness of 2017 to 2019 but even more pronounced. There is no way Starmer would be able to sell it to all those that voted in droves to 'get Brexit done' nor contain their rage at what would be seen as an undoing (without even a referendum). Would be socially disastrous.El_Capitano said:
Heaven forfend that Keir Starmer do something that would "solve a lot of problems".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
It will lead to electoral DOOM, I tell you.0 -
Mr. Eagles, if Hunt were to win a leadership contest in the near future, would that be sufficient (if he behaves as one might expect) to get you back in the Conservative fold?0
-
My evidence for economics having a term “rent seeking”? Look in an economics textbook.MattW said:
Your evidence of that? And that whatever the % is is universally unreasonable?bondegezou said:
I think a butcher makes a small % on top of their costs whereas a landlord makes a very large %. There is a reason why economics has the term “rent seeking”.MattW said:
What?bondegezou said:
So they’re doing 15-20% of a proper job?MattW said:
Why is providing high quality housing services not a proper job?dixiedean said:Top tip.
Professional landlords. Solve your financial problems by simply getting a proper job.
Houses don't maintain or invest in themselves. Traditionally 15-20% or so of the income goes on maintenance and investment, often done in advance during a full refurbishment with a 10 year+ return period.
You think that businesses are only entitled to one element of their business expenses, and no income?
So a butcher is only entitled to the money paid for meat supplies, and not the revenue that pays for the shop, the staff expenses, the tax and the maintenance of the finance which allowed investment in the business?
Bearing in mind the 30-100k investment that may have been made upfront in a refurbishment.
If rents consistently increase more slowly than inflation (which is true), and the quality of accommodation consistently increases (which it does), that actually suggests that it is working quite well.
As for landlords, I thought this an interesting article that touches on some of these issues: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13563467.2017.1401055
0 -
You've been doing the luxury travelling thing for too long. On my low cost carrier and Booking.com trips I see that sort of thing all the time. You will like Albania, especially the old Ottoman cities of Berat and Gjirokaster.Leon said:Look at this courtyard on my immediate right
How fucking brilliant is that? Earlier there was literally A SHIRTLESS, VILLAINOUS LOOKING MAN standing at that wooden window. I’ve no doubt he will soon burst into Neapolitan-esque song, and then hurl obscure and violent curses at me - which I won’t even understand, and I shall smile unsurely and wave and say “gamarjoba”, with a hint of British awkwardness0 -
Yep. The Madrid fans were sent to a different station (another RER station?) because their end of the stadium was better accessed from that station. That’s all it is. Pure luck, or bad luck. The ugly locals waited outside “Liverpool’s” station. Apparentlyboulay said:
The Liverpool fans entrance was via a different route to the Madrid fans. Reading on French twitter threads yesterday they were saying there was an issue with the metro station that takes you to that part of the stadium and the access is also different and so the bad access points that were made worse by police narrowing them added to the different layout of approach and arrival contributed to two different outcomes.tlg86 said:
Hang on, that suggests that Liverpool fans weren't treated any differently to the Real fans. Yet the Real fans seemed to be in the ground in plenty of time.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder if I go back to Saturday's threads there'll be no PBers embarrassed by their comments when they read this story.
Real Madrid supporters have recalled similar stories to Liverpool fans over the treatment they received at the Champions League final on Saturday, dismissing the notion the issues were solely caused by fans of the Premier League club.
Real fans have spoken of similar bottleneck problems when entering the Stade de France and corroborated tales that those jumping security barriers were young locals rather than ticket-holders from either club.
Supporters also spoke of their horror after the game when some fans were targeted by thieves as they made their way out of the stadium.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/champions-league-chaos-real-madrid-fans-claim-they-were-pepper-sprayed-and-robbed-in-paris-xk9qwvwg6
Indeed if i was a racaille from the hood determined on thieving, I would personally prefer to target Madrid fans over Liverpool fans, as probably being wealthier, less punchy, less drunk, and therefore less likely to resist0 -
Yes.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, if Hunt were to win a leadership contest in the near future, would that be sufficient (if he behaves as one might expect) to get you back in the Conservative fold?
He will need my assistance to purge the Boris enablers.0 -
Same.
1 -
All 14 million of them?TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, if Hunt were to win a leadership contest in the near future, would that be sufficient (if he behaves as one might expect) to get you back in the Conservative fold?
He will need my assistance to purge the Boris enablers.0 -
Hold on. Mr Rees-Mogg has released his 2,000 Brexit benefits this very morn. Let's just wait. Could be a game changer. The freedom of not having to do certain electrical safety checks could put the Tories 20 points ahead.Leon said:
I literally said “REVERSE BREXIT IN SOME FORM. NOT IMMEDIATELY REJOIN, NOT YET, BUT RE-ENTER THE SINGLE MARKET”dixiedean said:
But that isn't "reversing Brexit".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
FFS, read the comments0 -
Have you tried the qvevri yet? What did you think?Leon said:
I’m not “worrying”. I’m sitting on my ridiculously ramshackle new Tbilisi terrace staring across the old town at Shameba cathedral sipping cold white Georgian wine as I listen to the small children argue in Ossetian just below meNigel_Foremain said:
Sounds ideal. I'd be happy with that. Probably inevitable so I would stop worrying about it.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
It’s brilliant.
I too would be OK with Freedom of Movement restored. But many won’t be. Yet that is the direction PM Starmer will want to go, emotionally0 -
I'm pretty sure it was the first, actually...TheScreamingEagles said:Same.
0 -
No the socialists in the Parliamentary Conservative Party.Applicant said:
All 14 million of them?TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, if Hunt were to win a leadership contest in the near future, would that be sufficient (if he behaves as one might expect) to get you back in the Conservative fold?
He will need my assistance to purge the Boris enablers.0 -
The Minister for Brexit Opportunities.Stark_Dawning said:
Hold on. Mr Rees-Mogg has released his 2,000 Brexit benefits this very morn. Let's just wait. Could be a game changer. The freedom of not having to do certain electrical safety checks could put the Tories 20 points ahead.Leon said:
I literally said “REVERSE BREXIT IN SOME FORM. NOT IMMEDIATELY REJOIN, NOT YET, BUT RE-ENTER THE SINGLE MARKET”dixiedean said:
But that isn't "reversing Brexit".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
FFS, read the comments
Or Without Portfolio as we used to call it.0 -
If anyone is in any doubt about what SKS might or might not do were he to become PM they could do a lot worse than read up on TBlair's current position. The two meet regularly and not I'm sure to talk about late flowering shrubs.0
-
Has this been reported
John Stevenson becomes letter number 280 -
There is surely zero chance that Theresa hasn't put in her letter already.TheScreamingEagles said:Same.
0 -
Oh totally. She will enjoy every moment.AlistairM said:
There is surely zero chance that Theresa hasn't put in her letter already.TheScreamingEagles said:Same.
Although she might be waiting so when rumours of 'its close' emerge she can try and ensure its over the line1 -
I'm assuming hers has been in since December 2019.AlistairM said:
There is surely zero chance that Theresa hasn't put in her letter already.TheScreamingEagles said:Same.
0 -
Yes. It's gathering. It can't be far off now. The PM is vindictive. I would think twice about publicly confirming it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Has this been reported
John Stevenson becomes letter number 280 -
What is qvevri? I’m trying a lot of wine, is that the amber coloured one? If so, yes. I have, and its deliciousJohnLilburne said:
Have you tried the qvevri yet? What did you think?Leon said:
I’m not “worrying”. I’m sitting on my ridiculously ramshackle new Tbilisi terrace staring across the old town at Shameba cathedral sipping cold white Georgian wine as I listen to the small children argue in Ossetian just below meNigel_Foremain said:
Sounds ideal. I'd be happy with that. Probably inevitable so I would stop worrying about it.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
It’s brilliant.
I too would be OK with Freedom of Movement restored. But many won’t be. Yet that is the direction PM Starmer will want to go, emotionally0 -
REally? I always assumed she put it in in August 2019!Applicant said:
I'm assuming hers has been in since December 2019.AlistairM said:
There is surely zero chance that Theresa hasn't put in her letter already.TheScreamingEagles said:Same.
0 -
Don't forget more powerful vacuum cleaners.Stark_Dawning said:
Hold on. Mr Rees-Mogg has released his 2,000 Brexit benefits this very morn. Let's just wait. Could be a game changer. The freedom of not having to do certain electrical safety checks could put the Tories 20 points ahead.Leon said:
I literally said “REVERSE BREXIT IN SOME FORM. NOT IMMEDIATELY REJOIN, NOT YET, BUT RE-ENTER THE SINGLE MARKET”dixiedean said:
But that isn't "reversing Brexit".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
FFS, read the comments
This government sucks.
Big time.1 -
But we have full regulatory alignment. And as Rees-Mogg announced that to deviate would be "self-harm" that isn't going to change. Has anyone noticed? Does anyone care? Find me a normal who voted for Brexit because they wanted to end regulatory alignment. Or knew what that even was. They wanted an end to Brussels telling us we couldn't sell straight bananas. They know have that as no such ban existed anyway.williamglenn said:
Paradoxically I think a deal for reciprocal free movement (that any future government could amend) would be less politically toxic than regulatory alignment by stealth.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters0 -
We've just had the most almighty cloudburst here. Literally couldn't here the music I'm playing.0
-
Nah, it won't.wooliedyed said:
Even this would lead to reigniting the foulness of 2017 to 2019 but even more pronounced. There is no way Starmer would be able to sell it to all those that voted in droves to 'get Brexit done' nor contain their rage at what would be seen as an undoing (without even a referendum). Would be socially disastrous.El_Capitano said:
Heaven forfend that Keir Starmer do something that would "solve a lot of problems".Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
It will lead to electoral DOOM, I tell you.
It will be a thousand incremental little movements towards EEA/EFTA. Starmer is not going to stand up in the HoC and say "We are signing a new accord with the EU which restores our former status."
It will be two lines in a repeatedly-iterated treaty towards solving the Northern Ireland issues. It will be an MoU for (insert UK agency of some sort) to work more closely with (insert EU agency of some sort). And so on, a thousand times.
Occasionally a Tory backbencher or an unreconstructed DUP Paisleyite will stand up during the third reading of the Agricultural Concordance Bill (2025) and fulminate about where all this is going. Giles Fraser will write something self-righteous in Unherd. We will have a few in vino veritas moments with Leon and we love him for it.
But that will be it. Little by little, we will get back to something akin to our 1990s EU membership.1 -
How do you know the children are speaking Ossetian? (Ossetian, or Ossetic, is fairly close to Pashto.)Leon said:
I’m not “worrying”. I’m sitting on my ridiculously ramshackle new Tbilisi terrace staring across the old town at Shameba cathedral sipping cold white Georgian wine as I listen to the small children argue in Ossetian just below meNigel_Foremain said:
Sounds ideal. I'd be happy with that. Probably inevitable so I would stop worrying about it.Leon said:
I’m not talking about Rejoin. I’m talking about an EFTA/EEA arrangement, solving a lot of the ongoing Brexit problemsNigel_Foremain said:
Brexit was a manifesto of madness. A policy designed for gullible fools. The only thing worse would now be to try and reverse it. It isn't going to happen. If that is the only straw that The Clown has to cling to then Labour will win a majority.Leon said:
The Tories are indeed in deep shit, but both sides have tremendous problemsMISTY said:
When in power, labour can be relied on to be labour.Leon said:As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?
It is certainly possible
The tories, by their actions over the last two and half years, cannot be relied to on be anything. From the moment they adopted the Chinese Communist Party policy of lockdown, on top of the Maoist arbitrary hard target of Net Zero by 2050 At All Costs, they were finished.
And I think they are finished. Not just now, and not just for a generation. For ever.
How could they ever sell themselves to the electorate as anything again? It would be like Hal the computer in A Space Odyssey telling Dave he was alright now.
I'm feeling much better now voters. I favour low taxation. I favour personal responsibility. I want a small state and fiscal discipline. I want law and order. Mr sThatcher is my heroine. All as the voters shut the whole thing down.
A new party/brand on the right will have to replace them.
Here is just one for Labour. Brexit
If the polls continue fair for Starmer, and the Tories keep smashing themselves in the face with a shovel, he could actually win a majority. What would he do with that majority? Suddenly he has all the reins of power, he doesn’t have to rely on the Nats or the Libs.
In that case I think he would come under intense pressure to reverse Brexit in some form. Not immediately rejoin, not yet, but re-enter the Single Market, accept Freedom of Movement again. Everyone around him is a Remainer, he is a Remainer, his friends and allies: they are all Remainers. They won’t be able to resist moving closer to the EU. They might be able to sell it as making life easier for traders and exporters, etc etc
And that way lies much trouble
And, by the by, regaining Freedom of Movement
This will be intensely seductive for Keir “2nd vote” Starmer, and 95% of his allies and supporters
It’s brilliant.
I too would be OK with Freedom of Movement restored. But many won’t be. Yet that is the direction PM Starmer will want to go, emotionally
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Rule by fear only works as long as people have reason to fear you. See that Ceaușescu speech just before Christmas 1989.dixiedean said:
Yes. It's gathering. It can't be far off now. The PM is vindictive. I would think twice about publicly confirming it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Has this been reported
John Stevenson becomes letter number 280
