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These are the numbers that should really panic Number 10 – politicalbetting.com

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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Not particularly! And I certainly wasn't selected for poshness.

    I keep on getting told I'm posh.

    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country.

    I cannot be posh.

    The class system in this country is bizarre.
    What's the most you've spent on a single pair of shoes?
    Err, I think £2,000, from £3,200.

    Second most comfortable pair of shoes I've ever worn.
    I have some bespoke Giddens polo boots which cost* about twice that. So there.

    [*the original owner. I picked them up for £60 on ebay from someone who thought they were motorcycling boots]
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Stocky said:

    Applicant said:

    Where did the discussion about fox hunting come from?

    What stupid-arse thing Johnson might do next.
    Ah, so as I thought, there's absolutely nothing behind it.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,770
    edited May 31

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.
    My JCW Mini - but only because the tank takes 35litres so it's £60 max to fill at the moment.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642

    TOPPING said:

    I've got a pair of shoes I bought 23 years ago. They are excellent and still in use.

    They have been re-soled, the uppers have been replaced, and the linings renewed but they are still going strong.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY
    Indeed.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,225
    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    15 gallons? Doesn't sound unreasonable for a biggish road vehicle if the gauge was very low.
    Gallons? What are they, forsooth?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,421
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Not particularly! And I certainly wasn't selected for poshness.

    I keep on getting told I'm posh.

    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country.

    I cannot be posh.

    The class system in this country is bizarre.
    What's the most you've spent on a single pair of shoes?
    I just paid £370 for a pair of Sidi Wire 2. The good thing about Sidi (apart from the slim fit) is you can buy all the parts seperately for when you bin your shit.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136
    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.
    With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.
    It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Pritis 24 election manifesto will be led by the restoration of the death penalty, not just for cop killers but also random foxes.
    Allowing fox-hunting seems morally unsound to me on two grounds, but why should I be surprised at anything this administration does?

    a) Always look for any upper class/lower class differential in any 'morality'-driven regulation. Cf. divorce under the C of E of old (Scotland was a bit more sensible, not sure about Wales). In this case fox hunting is definitely toff territory, largely upper class/snobbish activity (albeit with quite a few prole followers) - but why allow nobby blood sports when banning working class ones such as cock fighting and bull baiting?

    b) foxes obv don't like being hunted*, but cockerels are only too happy to have a scrap, like squaddies of different regiments in an Aldershot pub, so who's being unkind to whom?

    *On empirical grounds. They run away. Cf. M. S. Dawkins's 1970s/1980s research on hens, which showed that they preferred not to live in a battery cage but in the more old fashioned alternative, simply by giving them the option.
    There is plenty of treatment of animals which people disagree over. Look at the cracking social media campaign that VFC is conducting right now.

    One of the criteria to be applied to any activity, from riding ponies to foxhunting to keeping goldfish to having a domestic dog to having a dairy herd to zapping a fly should be - is it cruel.

    And it was determined that foxhunting was not cruel.

    That said, now is not the time to have a vote to bring back foxhunting. Not least because it would be defeated. Badly.
    Well said. People who think fox hunting was cruel never bothered to read the burns report because they were far too consumed by their prejudice and general hatred of genuinely rural people that don't share their plastic view of the countryside.
    Quality erasure of "genuinely rural people" who think fox hunting is a bag of shite.

    Or are you only genuinely rural if you think fox hunting is good?
    The genuinely rural realise that death and suffering among foxes has rocketed since the hunting act because people used to want there to be some foxes. Now they don't farmers and pheasant shoots splat them with nightsights by the dozen. The wounded ones die of gangrene because they don't lick their wounds (only tamed canids do)

    I am sure a countryman like you knows all that. But hey, increased animal suffering Vs spiting the toffs...
    Yes, famously farmers upon seeing a fox would think "I could shoot this fucker worrying my livestock right now but I better leave it around for some wankers to chase in 3 months time".
    Absolutely fucking monumental fail because, yes, that is largely right, with various payoffs which have been explained to you. You might not like it but it is just how things were.

    Never seen anyone embarrass himself so badly on here. You are like a self proclaimed member of the cricketing community who thinks the game is played with an oval ball.

    You can't even get the dates right. Hunting ends as lambing begins, and three months time is in midsummer.
    I applaud your pedantically useless obsession with a completely randomly chosen time period. It adds to the tenor and tone of the debate.
    fail
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    edited May 31
    IshmaelZ said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Wallace should shave off his remaining hair. Much edgier and he needs to differentiate himself from IDS
    Wallace needs a bit of a perm, then he is the manager from Dilbert.



    Wallace vs Hunt seems a sensible choice.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    At the moment petrol round here is £7.70 per gallon. Diesel would be over £8 a gallon.
    When I started driving petrol was 3/9p a gallon
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,472

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Our best hope there is: monarchy abolished, SF start taking seats, hold whip hand in minority government. In the meantime there's always the Emerald Isle. Begorrah.
    None of the 3 main party leaders now want to abolish the monarchy, nor is it even a priority for SF who just want to be governed by Dublin not London
    Oh? Do the LDs want a republic?
    Absolutely not, Davey supports our constitutional monarchy
    You do know that Davey isn't god don't you. He doesn't decide LD policy.
    62% of LD voters also want to keep the monarchy, significantly higher than the 43% of Labour voters who want to keep the monarchy even if not quite as high as the 86% of Conservative voters who want to keep the monarchy

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/21/young-britons-are-turning-their-backs-monarchy
    It's not a massive issue for me but if perchance there was a Referendum on keeping the monarchy I think I'd vote No. That's a change of heart compared to say 10 years ago.

    The reason? Because the institution we have with its pomp and scale is really a hangover from our grand imperial past. It feels out of time now. More than this, it feels absurd and just a touch embarrassing. I get that feeling more than I do the rather heavier sense of it reinforcing white supremacy and class privilege. I also think it infantilizes us a bit. Along with the harmless and positive aspects it does that. Which is not a great thing esp when we have a PM doing the same albeit in a different way.

    So, on balance with the monarchy, a la Duncan Bannatyne on Dragons Den - it's a No from me.
    My view on it is the same as my view on leaving the EU. I am not massively in favour and not massively against. Nonetheless, it would be a totally unnecessary constitutional change, so the change and upheaval is pointless. The House of Lords on the other hand...
    I've been struck at the response in a Yorkshire village I know. Bunting everywhere and the high street to be closed for a street party. Obvs everyone is up for a celebration etc, and HMQ is v popular personally but, all the same, any serious attempt to do away the monarchy would be highly divisive. No sensible politician will go anywhere near it. And the succession is secured by William and Kate, even if Charles isn't so popular. This is really a non-issue.
    I think Charles will be a much better monarch starting in his seventies (or eighties..) then he would have been if he'd become King in his forties or fifties.

    Republicans hoping that the popularity of the institution will inevitably take a serious dive under his leadership are likely to be disappointed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642
    Bloody hell do I have to explain all my jokes I thought you lot were a sophisticated crowd.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Stocky said:

    Applicant said:

    Where did the discussion about fox hunting come from?

    What stupid-arse thing Johnson might do next.
    Have they done "must wear a shirt and tie to the theatre" yet?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493

    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.
    With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.
    It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.
    Have got a Tesla Model Y on order which I have deferred back into Q3 whilst awaiting work stuff to become more clear. Moving car costs to pre tax from post tax makes a lot of sense. Only problem is that I am becoming more attached to my Outlander PHEV now that I've reserved its replacement.

    Fuel costs are only one part of the total cost - and however great pence per mile may look at the moment on leccy vs dino juice, that equation will keep changing.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    edited May 31

    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    15 gallons? Doesn't sound unreasonable for a biggish road vehicle if the gauge was very low.
    Gallons? What are they, forsooth?
    4.546 l to you. Good for mental arithmetic.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093

    If you were Boris, you didn't care about anything except yourself, and it was obvious the fox hunting and the imperial units weren't going to do it for you, what would your next move be?

    I think I'd dispatch the Royal Navy to the Black Sea, with instructions to sail there very slowly.

    That would work. Nonetheless, the icing on the populist cake has to be hanging traitors and nonces.

    Now, what constitutes a traitor might be of debate. Fifty four letter writers might get a little nervous.
    Hulk ships for prisoners.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Our best hope there is: monarchy abolished, SF start taking seats, hold whip hand in minority government. In the meantime there's always the Emerald Isle. Begorrah.
    None of the 3 main party leaders now want to abolish the monarchy, nor is it even a priority for SF who just want to be governed by Dublin not London
    Oh? Do the LDs want a republic?
    Absolutely not, Davey supports our constitutional monarchy
    You do know that Davey isn't god don't you. He doesn't decide LD policy.
    62% of LD voters also want to keep the monarchy, significantly higher than the 43% of Labour voters who want to keep the monarchy even if not quite as high as the 86% of Conservative voters who want to keep the monarchy

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/21/young-britons-are-turning-their-backs-monarchy
    It's not a massive issue for me but if perchance there was a Referendum on keeping the monarchy I think I'd vote No. That's a change of heart compared to say 10 years ago.

    The reason? Because the institution we have with its pomp and scale is really a hangover from our grand imperial past. It feels out of time now. More than this, it feels absurd and just a touch embarrassing. I get that feeling more than I do the rather heavier sense of it reinforcing white supremacy and class privilege. I also think it infantilizes us a bit. Along with the harmless and positive aspects it does that. Which is not a great thing esp when we have a PM doing the same albeit in a different way.

    So, on balance with the monarchy, a la Duncan Bannatyne on Dragons Den - it's a No from me.
    We had a monarchy centuries before we had an Empire or even a Union, many nations without imperial pasts eg Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Jordan also have constitutional monarchies
    Wait, you think Denmark doesn't have an imperial past?
    Good god man, can you get ANYTHING right?
    Compared to the Spanish Empire, the Russian Empire, the French Empire, the British Empire, the German Empires or even the Italian and Austrian empires no it doesn't.

    Most of those are republics
    That wasn't the question, anyway. Denmark's main 'imperialism' might be a bit further back, although the sovereign of Denmark was also that of Iceland until 1944 or so, and Norway until 1905.
    In 'early modern' times Sweden was very aggressive in Mid and Eastern Europe.
    That is little different to the UK union, it is not a grand global imperial past like that of Britain or Germany or France or even a large European empire like that of Austria.

    Certainly being a republican because of your nation's imperial past is ludicrous, France had a big imperial past and is a republic with an imperial presidency, see Bastille Day
    Some UK subjects might differ. They might quite like to be proper citizens instead of being expected to cringe to people who went to posh schools and posh unis.
    Surely you are at/attended an institution that falls into the latter category @Carnyx ?
    Not particularly! And I certainly wasn't selected for poshness.
    Many of the worst academic snobs I have come across boast of their "working class" credentials ad nauseum. The very left wing rant about the inequity of British private schooling while being unable to notice the absurdity of their position when they also drone on about how they went to Trinity College Cambridge.
    Hmm, that is not in itself illogical - different funding systems, especially in the old days when people got proper student grants tout court.
    Of course it is illogical. Oxbridge colleges are privately financed institutions that are absolute bastions of snobbery, class distinction, absurd anachronisms and extreme wealth. No socialist should cross their thresholds. But, yay, socialism always has its way of bending the rules. I would just call it hypocrisy though.
    It is true that e.g., Trinity College Cambridge has an endowment of 1.3 billion.

    But -- as you seem not to understand -- let me explain.

    If a bright sixth-former is admitted as an undergraduate, they don't get to spend the 1.3 billion.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 251

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    Electric cars have never been more appealing.

    Last night the girlfriend asked me to take her somewhere really expensive for dinner.


    LOL. My plan is (was) to upgrade to fully electric when my current car (diesel Mondeo) is life expired.

    Unfortunately Sadiq Khan wants to bring this about 4 years early but I will need the full 5 years to save up for one. Not sure what I'm going to do in the interim as I buy cars new and run them until they fall apart and I don't have much spare money right now so couldn't even buy anything decent second hand. Uber and hiring as required, I guess.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297
    TOPPING said:

    Bloody hell do I have to explain all my jokes I thought you lot were a sophisticated crowd.

    Seems so.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    OT Anyone still doubt Brexit is a disaster?

    (I ask before the words 'lunatic asylum' join the banned list)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136

    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.
    With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.
    It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.
    Have got a Tesla Model Y on order which I have deferred back into Q3 whilst awaiting work stuff to become more clear. Moving car costs to pre tax from post tax makes a lot of sense. Only problem is that I am becoming more attached to my Outlander PHEV now that I've reserved its replacement.

    Fuel costs are only one part of the total cost - and however great pence per mile may look at the moment on leccy vs dino juice, that equation will keep changing.
    It was the BIK that sold it to me. That and the absurd acceleration! It is also very good to drive, and in spite of what the plonkerish CEO of BMW said, easily as good as any of the German cars I have had.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Pritis 24 election manifesto will be led by the restoration of the death penalty, not just for cop killers but also random foxes.
    Allowing fox-hunting seems morally unsound to me on two grounds, but why should I be surprised at anything this administration does?

    a) Always look for any upper class/lower class differential in any 'morality'-driven regulation. Cf. divorce under the C of E of old (Scotland was a bit more sensible, not sure about Wales). In this case fox hunting is definitely toff territory, largely upper class/snobbish activity (albeit with quite a few prole followers) - but why allow nobby blood sports when banning working class ones such as cock fighting and bull baiting?

    b) foxes obv don't like being hunted*, but cockerels are only too happy to have a scrap, like squaddies of different regiments in an Aldershot pub, so who's being unkind to whom?

    *On empirical grounds. They run away. Cf. M. S. Dawkins's 1970s/1980s research on hens, which showed that they preferred not to live in a battery cage but in the more old fashioned alternative, simply by giving them the option.
    There is plenty of treatment of animals which people disagree over. Look at the cracking social media campaign that VFC is conducting right now.

    One of the criteria to be applied to any activity, from riding ponies to foxhunting to keeping goldfish to having a domestic dog to having a dairy herd to zapping a fly should be - is it cruel.

    And it was determined that foxhunting was not cruel.

    That said, now is not the time to have a vote to bring back foxhunting. Not least because it would be defeated. Badly.
    Well said. People who think fox hunting was cruel never bothered to read the burns report because they were far too consumed by their prejudice and general hatred of genuinely rural people that don't share their plastic view of the countryside.
    Quality erasure of "genuinely rural people" who think fox hunting is a bag of shite.

    Or are you only genuinely rural if you think fox hunting is good?
    The genuinely rural realise that death and suffering among foxes has rocketed since the hunting act because people used to want there to be some foxes. Now they don't farmers and pheasant shoots splat them with nightsights by the dozen. The wounded ones die of gangrene because they don't lick their wounds (only tamed canids do)

    I am sure a countryman like you knows all that. But hey, increased animal suffering Vs spiting the toffs...
    Yes, famously farmers upon seeing a fox would think "I could shoot this fucker worrying my livestock right now but I better leave it around for some wankers to chase in 3 months time".
    Absolutely fucking monumental fail because, yes, that is largely right, with various payoffs which have been explained to you. You might not like it but it is just how things were.

    Never seen anyone embarrass himself so badly on here. You are like a self proclaimed member of the cricketing community who thinks the game is played with an oval ball.

    You can't even get the dates right. Hunting ends as lambing begins, and three months time is in midsummer.
    I applaud your pedantically useless obsession with a completely randomly chosen time period. It adds to the tenor and tone of the debate.
    fail
    If I'd said 5 months would that have worked better for you?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 251
    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    15 gallons? Doesn't sound unreasonable for a biggish road vehicle if the gauge was very low.
    Mondeo diesel. Tank was a bit emptier than usual but I've never paid above £80ish before.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,421
    MattW said:

    If you were Boris, you didn't care about anything except yourself, and it was obvious the fox hunting and the imperial units weren't going to do it for you, what would your next move be?

    I think I'd dispatch the Royal Navy to the Black Sea, with instructions to sail there very slowly.

    Turkey would probably not let them in under Montreux.
    ?
    Archer class Patrol Boats - S/Lt (Acting) Mordaunt has some experience with these from her time in the M*** Fleet so there's our CinC.

    Up the Rhine at Rotterdam, through the Rhine-Main-Danube Canal then down the Danube to Odessa for the liberation of Snake Island and the greater glory of Global Britain.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    edited May 31
    On topic:

    This seems to be the basis of the ConHome poll:

    Edited :smile:



    https://twitter.com/987_charles/status/1531402146859581440

    Not clear whether it is statistically matched.

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,749
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    William Hague reacts to @andrealeadsom joining the list of MPs calling for Boris Johnson to quit:

    "the fuse is getting closer to the dynamite here and it's speeding up....the Conservative Party is moving faster towards a vote of confidence or no confidence." @TimesRadio

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1531565273622499329

    If the tories want to win the next election, the time to act is now.

    The cabinet need a good sweeping out and a roll of the dice for replacements. Rees-Mogg, Patel, Dorries, all need to be ditched.
    But will he lose a conf vote if it happens?
    What's your gut feel on this? I'm about 75% lose, 25% win.
    Regardless of current polling in 2024 there will be people who will only come out and vote Tory if Johnson is the leader and there are people who will not vote Tory if Johnson is leader.

    Tory MPs will have to make a call on which is the larger group. If the letters go in I think your odds on a VONC are about right.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Our best hope there is: monarchy abolished, SF start taking seats, hold whip hand in minority government. In the meantime there's always the Emerald Isle. Begorrah.
    None of the 3 main party leaders now want to abolish the monarchy, nor is it even a priority for SF who just want to be governed by Dublin not London
    Oh? Do the LDs want a republic?
    Absolutely not, Davey supports our constitutional monarchy
    You do know that Davey isn't god don't you. He doesn't decide LD policy.
    62% of LD voters also want to keep the monarchy, significantly higher than the 43% of Labour voters who want to keep the monarchy even if not quite as high as the 86% of Conservative voters who want to keep the monarchy

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/21/young-britons-are-turning-their-backs-monarchy
    It's not a massive issue for me but if perchance there was a Referendum on keeping the monarchy I think I'd vote No. That's a change of heart compared to say 10 years ago.

    The reason? Because the institution we have with its pomp and scale is really a hangover from our grand imperial past. It feels out of time now. More than this, it feels absurd and just a touch embarrassing. I get that feeling more than I do the rather heavier sense of it reinforcing white supremacy and class privilege. I also think it infantilizes us a bit. Along with the harmless and positive aspects it does that. Which is not a great thing esp when we have a PM doing the same albeit in a different way.

    So, on balance with the monarchy, a la Duncan Bannatyne on Dragons Den - it's a No from me.
    We had a monarchy centuries before we had an Empire or even a Union, many nations without imperial pasts eg Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Jordan also have constitutional monarchies
    Wait, you think Denmark doesn't have an imperial past?
    Good god man, can you get ANYTHING right?
    Compared to the Spanish Empire, the Russian Empire, the French Empire, the British Empire, the German Empires or even the Italian and Austrian empires no it doesn't.

    Most of those are republics
    That wasn't the question, anyway. Denmark's main 'imperialism' might be a bit further back, although the sovereign of Denmark was also that of Iceland until 1944 or so, and Norway until 1905.
    In 'early modern' times Sweden was very aggressive in Mid and Eastern Europe.
    That is little different to the UK union, it is not a grand global imperial past like that of Britain or Germany or France or even a large European empire like that of Austria.

    Certainly being a republican because of your nation's imperial past is ludicrous, France had a big imperial past and is a republic with an imperial presidency, see Bastille Day
    Some UK subjects might differ. They might quite like to be proper citizens instead of being expected to cringe to people who went to posh schools and posh unis.
    Surely you are at/attended an institution that falls into the latter category @Carnyx ?
    Not particularly! And I certainly wasn't selected for poshness.
    Many of the worst academic snobs I have come across boast of their "working class" credentials ad nauseum. The very left wing rant about the inequity of British private schooling while being unable to notice the absurdity of their position when they also drone on about how they went to Trinity College Cambridge.
    Hmm, that is not in itself illogical - different funding systems, especially in the old days when people got proper student grants tout court.
    Of course it is illogical. Oxbridge colleges are privately financed institutions that are absolute bastions of snobbery, class distinction, absurd anachronisms and extreme wealth. No socialist should cross their thresholds. But, yay, socialism always has its way of bending the rules. I would just call it hypocrisy though.
    It is true that e.g., Trinity College Cambridge has an endowment of 1.3 billion.

    But -- as you seem not to understand -- let me explain.

    If a bright sixth-former is admitted as an undergraduate, they don't get to spend the 1.3 billion.
    I think if I don't understand then you are completely fucked. The point I was making was about snobbery dim wit. The hypocrisy of those that oppose private education who then bang on about how they went to the most snobbish institution in the world. That obvious enough for you?
  • mr-claypolemr-claypole Posts: 215
    On Royalty my in laws worked for the British council (a fine but now neglected institution) and as a result had a few brushes with Royalty over the years. Some fairly awful experiences with Princess Margaret although such tales are legion.

    One that stands out was the Queen deploying extreme sarcasm when after walking into a room she found one member of the assembly leaning on a mantlepiece rather than standing up straight for her 'Oh dear have you hurt your back?'

    I don't think that sort of thing is going to be a runner in the 21st century (once QE2 has left us) so if they want to survive they will need to be thinking clearly about what Monarchy will look like. I think support for them is wide but shallow.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    PJH said:

    LOL. My plan is (was) to upgrade to fully electric when my current car (diesel Mondeo) is life expired.

    Unfortunately Sadiq Khan wants to bring this about 4 years early but I will need the full 5 years to save up for one. Not sure what I'm going to do in the interim as I buy cars new and run them until they fall apart and I don't have much spare money right now so couldn't even buy anything decent second hand. Uber and hiring as required, I guess.

    We went from being a three car house to a two car house because in April 2020 my lease ran out and there was no point getting a new car then.

    Have you considered something like Cazoo?

    https://www.cazoo.co.uk/car-subscription/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Oh!! This is massive n'est pas?



    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    1h
    There’s a myth doing rounds that once Brady has got letters to trigger a vote he goes back to each Tory MP to check with them

    This is untrue - when threshold is crossed vote it triggered

    It makes Chief Whip’s plan to submit 10 letters and withdraw them to save PM precarious
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 27,575

    Apols if already posted, but this is a fascinating interview.

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/dominic-cummings-i-dont-like-parties/

    Dominic Cummings with Suzanne Moore.

    She asks all the questions you would want answering.

    (Precis: Basically, it's all Carrie's fault.)

    That's a cracking interview.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642

    On Royalty my in laws worked for the British council (a fine but now neglected institution) and as a result had a few brushes with Royalty over the years. Some fairly awful experiences with Princess Margaret although such tales are legion.

    One that stands out was the Queen deploying extreme sarcasm when after walking into a room she found one member of the assembly leaning on a mantlepiece rather than standing up straight for her 'Oh dear have you hurt your back?'

    I don't think that sort of thing is going to be a runner in the 21st century (once QE2 has left us) so if they want to survive they will need to be thinking clearly about what Monarchy will look like. I think support for them is wide but shallow.

    I'd be amazed if it was said sarcastically. Better story if it was, that said.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,819
    TOPPING said:

    Bloody hell do I have to explain all my jokes I thought you lot were a sophisticated crowd.

    Trigger’s broom.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    MattW said:

    On topic:

    This seems to be the basis of the ConHome poll:

    Edited :smile:



    https://twitter.com/987_charles/status/1531402146859581440

    Not clear whether it is statistically matched.

    The margin of error on that poll/sample size is 3.35.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493

    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.
    With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.
    It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.
    Have got a Tesla Model Y on order which I have deferred back into Q3 whilst awaiting work stuff to become more clear. Moving car costs to pre tax from post tax makes a lot of sense. Only problem is that I am becoming more attached to my Outlander PHEV now that I've reserved its replacement.

    Fuel costs are only one part of the total cost - and however great pence per mile may look at the moment on leccy vs dino juice, that equation will keep changing.
    It was the BIK that sold it to me. That and the absurd acceleration! It is also very good to drive, and in spite of what the plonkerish CEO of BMW said, easily as good as any of the German cars I have had.
    I don't think people understand until they drive an electric car.

    There is no gearbox. You are always in the right gear with 100% of power available at all times instantly. You are driving a vehicle with a low centre of gravity which means it holds the roll better than a car without a battery pack in the floor.

    When wanging it down your favourite driving road you have this new trick of mid-corner regen. A fossil car might suffer from lift-off oversteer, whereas an EV mid-corner liftoff rebalances the car through regen and helps you corner harder.

    Much as I loved my Volvo S90, the return to both diseasal and a torque-converter gearbox was something I never really got used to. So when it went and got replaced by another PHEV the relief was instant.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 251

    PJH said:

    LOL. My plan is (was) to upgrade to fully electric when my current car (diesel Mondeo) is life expired.

    Unfortunately Sadiq Khan wants to bring this about 4 years early but I will need the full 5 years to save up for one. Not sure what I'm going to do in the interim as I buy cars new and run them until they fall apart and I don't have much spare money right now so couldn't even buy anything decent second hand. Uber and hiring as required, I guess.

    We went from being a three car house to a two car house because in April 2020 my lease ran out and there was no point getting a new car then.

    Have you considered something like Cazoo?

    https://www.cazoo.co.uk/car-subscription/
    Thanks - yes it's worth thinking about something like that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    I am shocked. Shocked that DB have been accused of badness.

    Deutsche Bank AG and its asset management unit had their Frankfurt offices raided by police, adding to the legal headaches facing Germany’s largest lender.

    Law enforcement officials on Tuesday morning entered the twin towers where Germany’s largest lender is headquartered, as well as the nearby premises of DWS Group, according to a statement from the prosecutor that confirmed an earlier Bloomberg report. The search is related to accusations of greenwashing against the asset manager.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/deutsche-bank-s-dws-unit-raided-amid-allegations-of-greenwashing
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    An authoritative account of the Disaster of St Denis


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/31/champions-league-paris-final-fiasco-triggers-hillsborough-survivor-trauma?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What strikes me is the pathetic inertia and complacency of the UEFA and FIFA officials, even when told of the horrible chaos outside the stadium, going on there and then. Shameful

    The Olympic Games will be fun in 2024.
    Rugby World Cup there first. Saturday will ultimately save France from a worse bashing - they will throw everything at it to ensure nothing like it happens during the World Cup - I imagine the police will be ringing the whole area to avoid the mugging etc rather than focussing onwards on the fans.

    If that sort of behaviour happened at the World Cup then it would point to the police/authorities but if they do everything to avoid it they will no doubt say “see, we told you it was those naughty Liverpool fans”.

    I see the French sports minister has doubled down blaming it on Liverpool “letting their fans out into the wild”. If that’s the case they seem to have encountered the savages of St Denis on this safari. Who knew that the suburbs of Paris were the “wilds”?
    The French public and media are not buying the minister’s feeble diversions, however. He’s getting fierce criticism from Left and Right. The Left are blaming the government and police, the Right are blaming the scum of the suburbs, and the socialists that try to excuse them

    Virtually no one - in France - is blaming the Liverpool fans. Across all the newspapers it is “France wins the trophy for incompetence “ or “France is humiliated on the world stage”. They are taking it seriously and it is still front page news

    And the Spanish media is filled with similar accounts of chaos and mugging gangs.

    Must be quite a shock for Macron and friends that the strategy of "1) Blame the Brits" followed by "2) Lie your heads off" has stopped working.

    Even France 24 are calling them out on it.

    I think the thing that will hurt is questions about whether this will happen at the 2024 Olympics. eg Will anybody standing in a queue or presenting a ticket at a turnstyle at Paris 2024 be at risk of random assault by Police Officers with Pepper Spray, and how will such police officers be held to account.
    Why they built the French national stadium in - literally - the worst, most dangerous part of France - is quite the mystery. I guess they hoped it would boost the area?

    Now it’s a source of national humiliation
    It made no sense at all to build the stadium where they did, without also clearing the slums actively regenerating the whole area around it.
    Indeed. Stratford was hardly a desirable location when we built ours.
    The French decided to take the equivalent of a random 150m x 100m piece of land between Brixton and Streatham, and put the national stadium there, with no other improvements to the area, making sure that all the stadium’s visitors would have to park in or walk through the dodgiest part of the city to get there.
    Bit harsh on Brixton and Streatham!
    St Denis is far worse than Brixton or streatham. There isn’t really an equivalent in London, not even Tottenham - it’s not just the deprivation, there is a seething hatred of the authorities and police, all of it mixed in a toxic, lawless brew of Islamism and radicalism
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136
    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Pritis 24 election manifesto will be led by the restoration of the death penalty, not just for cop killers but also random foxes.
    Allowing fox-hunting seems morally unsound to me on two grounds, but why should I be surprised at anything this administration does?

    a) Always look for any upper class/lower class differential in any 'morality'-driven regulation. Cf. divorce under the C of E of old (Scotland was a bit more sensible, not sure about Wales). In this case fox hunting is definitely toff territory, largely upper class/snobbish activity (albeit with quite a few prole followers) - but why allow nobby blood sports when banning working class ones such as cock fighting and bull baiting?

    b) foxes obv don't like being hunted*, but cockerels are only too happy to have a scrap, like squaddies of different regiments in an Aldershot pub, so who's being unkind to whom?

    *On empirical grounds. They run away. Cf. M. S. Dawkins's 1970s/1980s research on hens, which showed that they preferred not to live in a battery cage but in the more old fashioned alternative, simply by giving them the option.
    There is plenty of treatment of animals which people disagree over. Look at the cracking social media campaign that VFC is conducting right now.

    One of the criteria to be applied to any activity, from riding ponies to foxhunting to keeping goldfish to having a domestic dog to having a dairy herd to zapping a fly should be - is it cruel.

    And it was determined that foxhunting was not cruel.

    That said, now is not the time to have a vote to bring back foxhunting. Not least because it would be defeated. Badly.
    Well said. People who think fox hunting was cruel never bothered to read the burns report because they were far too consumed by their prejudice and general hatred of genuinely rural people that don't share their plastic view of the countryside.
    Quality erasure of "genuinely rural people" who think fox hunting is a bag of shite.

    Or are you only genuinely rural if you think fox hunting is good?
    The genuinely rural realise that death and suffering among foxes has rocketed since the hunting act because people used to want there to be some foxes. Now they don't farmers and pheasant shoots splat them with nightsights by the dozen. The wounded ones die of gangrene because they don't lick their wounds (only tamed canids do)

    I am sure a countryman like you knows all that. But hey, increased animal suffering Vs spiting the toffs...
    Yes, famously farmers upon seeing a fox would think "I could shoot this fucker worrying my livestock right now but I better leave it around for some wankers to chase in 3 months time".
    Absolutely fucking monumental fail because, yes, that is largely right, with various payoffs which have been explained to you. You might not like it but it is just how things were.

    Never seen anyone embarrass himself so badly on here. You are like a self proclaimed member of the cricketing community who thinks the game is played with an oval ball.

    You can't even get the dates right. Hunting ends as lambing begins, and three months time is in midsummer.
    I applaud your pedantically useless obsession with a completely randomly chosen time period. It adds to the tenor and tone of the debate.
    fail
    If I'd said 5 months would that have worked better for you?
    With reference to your earlier comment: My definition of "genuine rural people" is a simple one. It is defined for me as someone who either makes their living from the land (farming etc.) or is related in some way to those that do. A vegetarian social worker who moved to a pretty village near Tunbridge Wells would not fit my category.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642

    PJH said:

    LOL. My plan is (was) to upgrade to fully electric when my current car (diesel Mondeo) is life expired.

    Unfortunately Sadiq Khan wants to bring this about 4 years early but I will need the full 5 years to save up for one. Not sure what I'm going to do in the interim as I buy cars new and run them until they fall apart and I don't have much spare money right now so couldn't even buy anything decent second hand. Uber and hiring as required, I guess.

    We went from being a three car house to a two car house because in April 2020 my lease ran out and there was no point getting a new car then.
    This of course is the interesting point. To old timers like me who are used to buying their cars outright it is a bonkers world of everyone "buying cars" on the never never. Explains a lot in terms of people driving around in Range Rover Evoques but it is unnerving.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Julian Jessop 🇬🇧 🇺🇦
    @julianHjessop
    ·
    1h
    Another reason why the UK economy should avoid a #recession...

    This morning's Bank of England money and credit data confirm that the household sector as a whole (not everyone, of course) still has plenty of excess savings accumulated during the pandemic 👇

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1531571901251854336
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700

    I am shocked. Shocked that DB have been accused of badness.

    Deutsche Bank AG and its asset management unit had their Frankfurt offices raided by police, adding to the legal headaches facing Germany’s largest lender.

    Law enforcement officials on Tuesday morning entered the twin towers where Germany’s largest lender is headquartered, as well as the nearby premises of DWS Group, according to a statement from the prosecutor that confirmed an earlier Bloomberg report. The search is related to accusations of greenwashing against the asset manager.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/deutsche-bank-s-dws-unit-raided-amid-allegations-of-greenwashing

    When anyone on here mentions DB, I assume they are talking about the railways!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Pritis 24 election manifesto will be led by the restoration of the death penalty, not just for cop killers but also random foxes.
    Allowing fox-hunting seems morally unsound to me on two grounds, but why should I be surprised at anything this administration does?

    a) Always look for any upper class/lower class differential in any 'morality'-driven regulation. Cf. divorce under the C of E of old (Scotland was a bit more sensible, not sure about Wales). In this case fox hunting is definitely toff territory, largely upper class/snobbish activity (albeit with quite a few prole followers) - but why allow nobby blood sports when banning working class ones such as cock fighting and bull baiting?

    b) foxes obv don't like being hunted*, but cockerels are only too happy to have a scrap, like squaddies of different regiments in an Aldershot pub, so who's being unkind to whom?

    *On empirical grounds. They run away. Cf. M. S. Dawkins's 1970s/1980s research on hens, which showed that they preferred not to live in a battery cage but in the more old fashioned alternative, simply by giving them the option.
    There is plenty of treatment of animals which people disagree over. Look at the cracking social media campaign that VFC is conducting right now.

    One of the criteria to be applied to any activity, from riding ponies to foxhunting to keeping goldfish to having a domestic dog to having a dairy herd to zapping a fly should be - is it cruel.

    And it was determined that foxhunting was not cruel.

    That said, now is not the time to have a vote to bring back foxhunting. Not least because it would be defeated. Badly.
    Well said. People who think fox hunting was cruel never bothered to read the burns report because they were far too consumed by their prejudice and general hatred of genuinely rural people that don't share their plastic view of the countryside.
    Quality erasure of "genuinely rural people" who think fox hunting is a bag of shite.

    Or are you only genuinely rural if you think fox hunting is good?
    The genuinely rural realise that death and suffering among foxes has rocketed since the hunting act because people used to want there to be some foxes. Now they don't farmers and pheasant shoots splat them with nightsights by the dozen. The wounded ones die of gangrene because they don't lick their wounds (only tamed canids do)

    I am sure a countryman like you knows all that. But hey, increased animal suffering Vs spiting the toffs...
    Yes, famously farmers upon seeing a fox would think "I could shoot this fucker worrying my livestock right now but I better leave it around for some wankers to chase in 3 months time".
    Absolutely fucking monumental fail because, yes, that is largely right, with various payoffs which have been explained to you. You might not like it but it is just how things were.

    Never seen anyone embarrass himself so badly on here. You are like a self proclaimed member of the cricketing community who thinks the game is played with an oval ball.

    You can't even get the dates right. Hunting ends as lambing begins, and three months time is in midsummer.
    I applaud your pedantically useless obsession with a completely randomly chosen time period. It adds to the tenor and tone of the debate.
    fail
    If I'd said 5 months would that have worked better for you?
    look, just leave it. There is nothing particularly meritorious about being a countryman (I have always had some sympathy for Marx's remark about "the imbecility of rural life") but you aren't one. You are like someone claiming to be bilingual in French who can't immediately find the word for cheese in that language.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Our best hope there is: monarchy abolished, SF start taking seats, hold whip hand in minority government. In the meantime there's always the Emerald Isle. Begorrah.
    None of the 3 main party leaders now want to abolish the monarchy, nor is it even a priority for SF who just want to be governed by Dublin not London
    Oh? Do the LDs want a republic?
    Absolutely not, Davey supports our constitutional monarchy
    You do know that Davey isn't god don't you. He doesn't decide LD policy.
    62% of LD voters also want to keep the monarchy, significantly higher than the 43% of Labour voters who want to keep the monarchy even if not quite as high as the 86% of Conservative voters who want to keep the monarchy

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/21/young-britons-are-turning-their-backs-monarchy
    It's not a massive issue for me but if perchance there was a Referendum on keeping the monarchy I think I'd vote No. That's a change of heart compared to say 10 years ago.

    The reason? Because the institution we have with its pomp and scale is really a hangover from our grand imperial past. It feels out of time now. More than this, it feels absurd and just a touch embarrassing. I get that feeling more than I do the rather heavier sense of it reinforcing white supremacy and class privilege. I also think it infantilizes us a bit. Along with the harmless and positive aspects it does that. Which is not a great thing esp when we have a PM doing the same albeit in a different way.

    So, on balance with the monarchy, a la Duncan Bannatyne on Dragons Den - it's a No from me.
    We had a monarchy centuries before we had an Empire or even a Union, many nations without imperial pasts eg Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Jordan also have constitutional monarchies
    Wait, you think Denmark doesn't have an imperial past?
    Good god man, can you get ANYTHING right?
    Compared to the Spanish Empire, the Russian Empire, the French Empire, the British Empire, the German Empires or even the Italian and Austrian empires no it doesn't.

    Most of those are republics
    That wasn't the question, anyway. Denmark's main 'imperialism' might be a bit further back, although the sovereign of Denmark was also that of Iceland until 1944 or so, and Norway until 1905.
    In 'early modern' times Sweden was very aggressive in Mid and Eastern Europe.
    That is little different to the UK union, it is not a grand global imperial past like that of Britain or Germany or France or even a large European empire like that of Austria.

    Certainly being a republican because of your nation's imperial past is ludicrous, France had a big imperial past and is a republic with an imperial presidency, see Bastille Day
    Some UK subjects might differ. They might quite like to be proper citizens instead of being expected to cringe to people who went to posh schools and posh unis.
    Surely you are at/attended an institution that falls into the latter category @Carnyx ?
    Not particularly! And I certainly wasn't selected for poshness.
    Many of the worst academic snobs I have come across boast of their "working class" credentials ad nauseum. The very left wing rant about the inequity of British private schooling while being unable to notice the absurdity of their position when they also drone on about how they went to Trinity College Cambridge.
    Hmm, that is not in itself illogical - different funding systems, especially in the old days when people got proper student grants tout court.
    Of course it is illogical. Oxbridge colleges are privately financed institutions that are absolute bastions of snobbery, class distinction, absurd anachronisms and extreme wealth. No socialist should cross their thresholds. But, yay, socialism always has its way of bending the rules. I would just call it hypocrisy though.
    It is true that e.g., Trinity College Cambridge has an endowment of 1.3 billion.

    But -- as you seem not to understand -- let me explain.

    If a bright sixth-former is admitted as an undergraduate, they don't get to spend the 1.3 billion.
    I think if I don't understand then you are completely fucked. The point I was making was about snobbery dim wit. The hypocrisy of those that oppose private education who then bang on about how they went to the most snobbish institution in the world. That obvious enough for you?
    But, private education implies that you can only access it if you have money (scholarships excepted).

    There is no such requirement at Cambridge.

    Cambridge University -- like Harvard University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Princeton University, Yale University, Brown University-- operate needs-blind admission.

    If you pass the academic admission criteria, then there is no financial obstacle to attending.

    Most Universities with large endowments can afford to operate need-blind admission.

    That is exactly the opposite of private schools.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147

    I am shocked. Shocked that DB have been accused of badness.

    Deutsche Bank AG and its asset management unit had their Frankfurt offices raided by police, adding to the legal headaches facing Germany’s largest lender.

    Law enforcement officials on Tuesday morning entered the twin towers where Germany’s largest lender is headquartered, as well as the nearby premises of DWS Group, according to a statement from the prosecutor that confirmed an earlier Bloomberg report. The search is related to accusations of greenwashing against the asset manager.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/deutsche-bank-s-dws-unit-raided-amid-allegations-of-greenwashing

    Don't worry the German regulator will close ranks and miraculously those investigations will come to nothing while the investigators will find their careers cut short.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,749
    edited May 31
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    For Sunday I think I'll publish a piece reminding you that the Conservative Party uses a form of quasi AV to elect their party leader.

    Jeez, not this again. It’s nothing like AV.

    No numbers used, just ticks in boxes. Multiple but separate rounds of voting, with the ability to vote for any candidate in any round.
    Multiple rounds of voting which sees the lowest ranked candidate eliminated until we have a final two, winner is the person who gets over 50%.
    AV has one round of voting, multiple rounds of counting, and the same electorate for each round. None of which are present in the Tory leadership election.
    The principle is the same, the process is different. The principle is that it is not acceptable to simply elect the person with the most votes in an election with 3 or more candidates. The process is different because it would be impractical to apply the Tory methodology to the whole electorate.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    On Royalty my in laws worked for the British council (a fine but now neglected institution) and as a result had a few brushes with Royalty over the years. Some fairly awful experiences with Princess Margaret although such tales are legion.

    One that stands out was the Queen deploying extreme sarcasm when after walking into a room she found one member of the assembly leaning on a mantlepiece rather than standing up straight for her 'Oh dear have you hurt your back?'

    I don't think that sort of thing is going to be a runner in the 21st century (once QE2 has left us) so if they want to survive they will need to be thinking clearly about what Monarchy will look like. I think support for them is wide but shallow.

    On the one hand theres no need to be lounging about when the Head of State comes in, on the other the extreme deference of the classes stuff has to go. Minor royals and 'aristocracy' can do one if they expect forelock tugging boot licking. Its getting closer to eradication but its still there in the 'tradesmen to use the rear entrance' stuff. Similarly the shade thrown at the better off just for being better off is unnecessary.
    Mutual respect and politeness are sufficient. Much easier in person than on a political discussion forum.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    edited May 31
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    If you were Boris, you didn't care about anything except yourself, and it was obvious the fox hunting and the imperial units weren't going to do it for you, what would your next move be?

    I think I'd dispatch the Royal Navy to the Black Sea, with instructions to sail there very slowly.

    Turkey would probably not let them in under Montreux.
    ?
    Archer class Patrol Boats - S/Lt (Acting) Mordaunt has some experience with these from her time in the M*** Fleet so there's our CinC.

    Up the Rhine at Rotterdam, through the Rhine-Main-Danube Canal then down the Danube to Odessa for the liberation of Snake Island and the greater glory of Global Britain.
    I'm not wholly sure that a 20m Archer Class patrol boat with one 20mm popgun counts as "the Navy".

    Never mind whether it will get under the 5.1m minimum bridge clearance on the Rhine-Main-Danube canal.


    Unless those sailors are Munchkins. Or Diddy Men.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    I am shocked. Shocked that DB have been accused of badness.

    Deutsche Bank AG and its asset management unit had their Frankfurt offices raided by police, adding to the legal headaches facing Germany’s largest lender.

    Law enforcement officials on Tuesday morning entered the twin towers where Germany’s largest lender is headquartered, as well as the nearby premises of DWS Group, according to a statement from the prosecutor that confirmed an earlier Bloomberg report. The search is related to accusations of greenwashing against the asset manager.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/deutsche-bank-s-dws-unit-raided-amid-allegations-of-greenwashing

    Second raid on DB this year i believe?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297
    boulay said:

    TOPPING said:

    Bloody hell do I have to explain all my jokes I thought you lot were a sophisticated crowd.

    Trigger’s broom.
    At least one of us was sophisticated enough to know it as Theseus' trireme paradox.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868
    edited May 31
    TOPPING said:

    PJH said:

    LOL. My plan is (was) to upgrade to fully electric when my current car (diesel Mondeo) is life expired.

    Unfortunately Sadiq Khan wants to bring this about 4 years early but I will need the full 5 years to save up for one. Not sure what I'm going to do in the interim as I buy cars new and run them until they fall apart and I don't have much spare money right now so couldn't even buy anything decent second hand. Uber and hiring as required, I guess.

    We went from being a three car house to a two car house because in April 2020 my lease ran out and there was no point getting a new car then.
    This of course is the interesting point. To old timers like me who are used to buying their cars outright it is a bonkers world of everyone "buying cars" on the never never. Explains a lot in terms of people driving around in Range Rover Evoques but it is unnerving.
    Rising interest rates will be yet another factor in the car industry recession. So many sales are personal leases and PCP plans, which all just got a lot more expensive. Much of the car industry profits were from financial services and inflated cash prices for new cars.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297
    tlg86 said:

    I am shocked. Shocked that DB have been accused of badness.

    Deutsche Bank AG and its asset management unit had their Frankfurt offices raided by police, adding to the legal headaches facing Germany’s largest lender.

    Law enforcement officials on Tuesday morning entered the twin towers where Germany’s largest lender is headquartered, as well as the nearby premises of DWS Group, according to a statement from the prosecutor that confirmed an earlier Bloomberg report. The search is related to accusations of greenwashing against the asset manager.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/deutsche-bank-s-dws-unit-raided-amid-allegations-of-greenwashing

    When anyone on here mentions DB, I assume they are talking about the railways!
    I did have a moment of confusion yesterday when I read the FSB was asking for a bailout.
    I know Sunak likes to spray the cash but.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Our best hope there is: monarchy abolished, SF start taking seats, hold whip hand in minority government. In the meantime there's always the Emerald Isle. Begorrah.
    None of the 3 main party leaders now want to abolish the monarchy, nor is it even a priority for SF who just want to be governed by Dublin not London
    Oh? Do the LDs want a republic?
    Absolutely not, Davey supports our constitutional monarchy
    You do know that Davey isn't god don't you. He doesn't decide LD policy.
    62% of LD voters also want to keep the monarchy, significantly higher than the 43% of Labour voters who want to keep the monarchy even if not quite as high as the 86% of Conservative voters who want to keep the monarchy

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/21/young-britons-are-turning-their-backs-monarchy
    It's not a massive issue for me but if perchance there was a Referendum on keeping the monarchy I think I'd vote No. That's a change of heart compared to say 10 years ago.

    The reason? Because the institution we have with its pomp and scale is really a hangover from our grand imperial past. It feels out of time now. More than this, it feels absurd and just a touch embarrassing. I get that feeling more than I do the rather heavier sense of it reinforcing white supremacy and class privilege. I also think it infantilizes us a bit. Along with the harmless and positive aspects it does that. Which is not a great thing esp when we have a PM doing the same albeit in a different way.

    So, on balance with the monarchy, a la Duncan Bannatyne on Dragons Den - it's a No from me.
    We had a monarchy centuries before we had an Empire or even a Union, many nations without imperial pasts eg Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Jordan also have constitutional monarchies
    Wait, you think Denmark doesn't have an imperial past?
    Good god man, can you get ANYTHING right?
    Compared to the Spanish Empire, the Russian Empire, the French Empire, the British Empire, the German Empires or even the Italian and Austrian empires no it doesn't.

    Most of those are republics
    That wasn't the question, anyway. Denmark's main 'imperialism' might be a bit further back, although the sovereign of Denmark was also that of Iceland until 1944 or so, and Norway until 1905.
    In 'early modern' times Sweden was very aggressive in Mid and Eastern Europe.
    That is little different to the UK union, it is not a grand global imperial past like that of Britain or Germany or France or even a large European empire like that of Austria.

    Certainly being a republican because of your nation's imperial past is ludicrous, France had a big imperial past and is a republic with an imperial presidency, see Bastille Day
    Some UK subjects might differ. They might quite like to be proper citizens instead of being expected to cringe to people who went to posh schools and posh unis.
    Surely you are at/attended an institution that falls into the latter category @Carnyx ?
    Not particularly! And I certainly wasn't selected for poshness.
    Many of the worst academic snobs I have come across boast of their "working class" credentials ad nauseum. The very left wing rant about the inequity of British private schooling while being unable to notice the absurdity of their position when they also drone on about how they went to Trinity College Cambridge.
    Hmm, that is not in itself illogical - different funding systems, especially in the old days when people got proper student grants tout court.
    Of course it is illogical. Oxbridge colleges are privately financed institutions that are absolute bastions of snobbery, class distinction, absurd anachronisms and extreme wealth. No socialist should cross their thresholds. But, yay, socialism always has its way of bending the rules. I would just call it hypocrisy though.
    It is true that e.g., Trinity College Cambridge has an endowment of 1.3 billion.

    But -- as you seem not to understand -- let me explain.

    If a bright sixth-former is admitted as an undergraduate, they don't get to spend the 1.3 billion.
    I think if I don't understand then you are completely fucked. The point I was making was about snobbery dim wit. The hypocrisy of those that oppose private education who then bang on about how they went to the most snobbish institution in the world. That obvious enough for you?
    But, private education implies that you can only access it if you have money (scholarships excepted).

    There is no such requirement at Cambridge.

    Cambridge University -- like Harvard University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Princeton University, Yale University, Brown University-- operate needs-blind admission.

    If you pass the academic admission criteria, then there is no financial obstacle to attending.

    Most Universities with large endowments can afford to operate need-blind admission.

    That is exactly the opposite of private schools.
    In your desperation to defend Oxbridge (which I am not attacking) you seem to be completely missing the point. Oxbridge is VERY elitist. It is far more elitist and discriminatory than grammar schools. The hypocrisy that amuses me about well educated lefties is that they seethe about people boasting about money (which I have some sympathy with) but they are often the worst academic snobs. Snobbery about their academic capability (won in a lottery of genetics) is OK to them. Any other type of snobbery is to be looked down on, in a very snobby supercilious way. Oh, the irony!

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700
    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,821

    Apols if already posted, but this is a fascinating interview.

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/dominic-cummings-i-dont-like-parties/

    Dominic Cummings with Suzanne Moore.

    She asks all the questions you would want answering.

    (Precis: Basically, it's all Carrie's fault.)

    Big Dom, never fails to come across as such a humble and likable guy.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,925

    Julian Jessop 🇬🇧 🇺🇦
    @julianHjessop
    ·
    1h
    Another reason why the UK economy should avoid a #recession...

    This morning's Bank of England money and credit data confirm that the household sector as a whole (not everyone, of course) still has plenty of excess savings accumulated during the pandemic 👇

    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1531571901251854336

    It is reflected in the fact that discretionary spending is still happening to a very large extent.

    I keep hearing about a cost of living crisis, compare now with the early 80's, early 90s, 2008, those must have been a cost of living armageddon.

    Millions of ordinary people have plenty of money at the moment.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,815
    Le Monde reports:

    Stade de France: new call for a strike on the RER B on the day of the France-Denmark football match
    "The success of the strike during the Champions League final gives a concrete balance of power to the trade unions", say the trade union organizations of the RATP.

    After a previous strike during the very chaotic Champions League final on Saturday May 28, RATP trade union organizations launched a new strike call on Tuesday May 31 on line B of the RER for Friday June 3. , France-Denmark football match day at the Stade de France. “The success of the strike during the Champions League final gives a concrete balance of power to the trade unions. The fiasco of May 28 generated worldwide media coverage and the management bears full responsibility for the problems of routing supporters to the Stade de France , ”say in their appeal CGT Métro-RER, UNSA and La Base.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,502

    MattW said:

    On topic:

    This seems to be the basis of the ConHome poll:

    Edited :smile:



    https://twitter.com/987_charles/status/1531402146859581440

    Not clear whether it is statistically matched.

    The margin of error on that poll/sample size is 3.35.
    Voodoo poll, though (unless there is selection or correction for demographics). The ConHome panel might be nuttier/less nutty than the typical Con member.

    Then, of course, you have to also allow for the destabilising effect of former PB posters sent there in disgrace :wink:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
    My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,225
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    15 gallons? Doesn't sound unreasonable for a biggish road vehicle if the gauge was very low.
    Gallons? What are they, forsooth?
    4.546 l to you. Good for mental arithmetic.
    Thanks Matt. Presumaly you pay for them in groats?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
    We should wire her bones to the National Grid.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
    We should wire her bones to the National Grid.
    Oh that is good!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    I have moved into a fantastically dilapidated apartment in the Old Town of Tbilisi. There’s a tree growing through the roof of the neighbouring house

    And outside is this graffiti


  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,421



    There is no gearbox. You are always in the right gear with 100% of power available at all times instantly. .

    Power = Torque x RPM so, no, because the motor RPM is relatively low at low speeds.

    Teslas are torque limited from a standing start to avoid blowing out the diffs and half shafts. The torque starts to drop off at about 30% engine RPM (also peak power) so a Tesla does have a torque curve of sorts.

    You are getting a lot more bottom end torque and 'throttle' repsonse than an IC car - particularly a shitbox.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
    My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.
    I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))
    Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
    FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    15 gallons? Doesn't sound unreasonable for a biggish road vehicle if the gauge was very low.
    Gallons? What are they, forsooth?
    4.546 l to you. Good for mental arithmetic.
    Thanks Matt. Presumaly you pay for them in groats?
    I'd be inclined to go for goats. More interesting than groats.

    4.546 is a nice number to work with - x5 minus 10% as near as. Plus 1% on that if you are obsessing.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
    My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.
    I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.
    I've honestly never known a Tory government to simply give up on supply side economics. It's as if Rishi has just thrown away all of the first year economics text books and decided that pumping up demand is going to solve the inflation problem. Completely mad.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136
    Dura_Ace said:



    There is no gearbox. You are always in the right gear with 100% of power available at all times instantly. .

    Power = Torque x RPM so, no, because the motor RPM is relatively low at low speeds.

    Teslas are torque limited from a standing start to avoid blowing out the diffs and half shafts. The torque starts to drop off at about 30% engine RPM (also peak power) so a Tesla does have a torque curve of sorts.

    You are getting a lot more bottom end torque and 'throttle' repsonse than an IC car - particularly a shitbox.
    The bit that can be quite exciting is the amount of power and acceleration you still have when already at 70mph. I of course never take advantage of this optional power, and if I did, I would be on my way somewhere else, to my flat for example, but at all times I thought I was working.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 875
    edited May 31

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Good piece on Johnson's 'red meat policy' lurch to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/30/johnsons-red-meat-policy-proposals-are-telling-of-his-insecurity

    "It is a moment often seen in the downward trajectory of embattled prime ministers: a whirl of new policy ideas intended to appeal to voters, but which are in fact more often aimed at placating their own MPs. Boris Johnson is, some would argue, approaching this point.

    In recent days Downing Street has briefed in favour of grammar schools and imperial measurements. Earlier weeks saw forays into other Conservative comfort zones, including bashing the EU and talking up fossil fuels.

    Such nostalgia politics is routinely promoted by Conservative backbenchers. But it is one of the paradoxes of Tory party politics that the more secure a prime minister is in office, the less they have to indulge these ideas."

    If Johnson loses both by-elections he'll have to go Full Tonto and offer a vote on fox hunting.
    Our best hope there is: monarchy abolished, SF start taking seats, hold whip hand in minority government. In the meantime there's always the Emerald Isle. Begorrah.
    None of the 3 main party leaders now want to abolish the monarchy, nor is it even a priority for SF who just want to be governed by Dublin not London
    Oh? Do the LDs want a republic?
    Absolutely not, Davey supports our constitutional monarchy
    You do know that Davey isn't god don't you. He doesn't decide LD policy.
    62% of LD voters also want to keep the monarchy, significantly higher than the 43% of Labour voters who want to keep the monarchy even if not quite as high as the 86% of Conservative voters who want to keep the monarchy

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/21/young-britons-are-turning-their-backs-monarchy
    It's not a massive issue for me but if perchance there was a Referendum on keeping the monarchy I think I'd vote No. That's a change of heart compared to say 10 years ago.

    The reason? Because the institution we have with its pomp and scale is really a hangover from our grand imperial past. It feels out of time now. More than this, it feels absurd and just a touch embarrassing. I get that feeling more than I do the rather heavier sense of it reinforcing white supremacy and class privilege. I also think it infantilizes us a bit. Along with the harmless and positive aspects it does that. Which is not a great thing esp when we have a PM doing the same albeit in a different way.

    So, on balance with the monarchy, a la Duncan Bannatyne on Dragons Den - it's a No from me.
    We had a monarchy centuries before we had an Empire or even a Union, many nations without imperial pasts eg Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Jordan also have constitutional monarchies
    Wait, you think Denmark doesn't have an imperial past?
    Good god man, can you get ANYTHING right?
    Compared to the Spanish Empire, the Russian Empire, the French Empire, the British Empire, the German Empires or even the Italian and Austrian empires no it doesn't.

    Most of those are republics
    That wasn't the question, anyway. Denmark's main 'imperialism' might be a bit further back, although the sovereign of Denmark was also that of Iceland until 1944 or so, and Norway until 1905.
    In 'early modern' times Sweden was very aggressive in Mid and Eastern Europe.
    That is little different to the UK union, it is not a grand global imperial past like that of Britain or Germany or France or even a large European empire like that of Austria.

    Certainly being a republican because of your nation's imperial past is ludicrous, France had a big imperial past and is a republic with an imperial presidency, see Bastille Day
    Some UK subjects might differ. They might quite like to be proper citizens instead of being expected to cringe to people who went to posh schools and posh unis.
    Surely you are at/attended an institution that falls into the latter category @Carnyx ?
    Not particularly! And I certainly wasn't selected for poshness.
    Many of the worst academic snobs I have come across boast of their "working class" credentials ad nauseum. The very left wing rant about the inequity of British private schooling while being unable to notice the absurdity of their position when they also drone on about how they went to Trinity College Cambridge.
    Hmm, that is not in itself illogical - different funding systems, especially in the old days when people got proper student grants tout court.
    Of course it is illogical. Oxbridge colleges are privately financed institutions that are absolute bastions of snobbery, class distinction, absurd anachronisms and extreme wealth. No socialist should cross their thresholds. But, yay, socialism always has its way of bending the rules. I would just call it hypocrisy though.
    It is true that e.g., Trinity College Cambridge has an endowment of 1.3 billion.

    But -- as you seem not to understand -- let me explain.

    If a bright sixth-former is admitted as an undergraduate, they don't get to spend the 1.3 billion.
    I think if I don't understand then you are completely fucked. The point I was making was about snobbery dim wit. The hypocrisy of those that oppose private education who then bang on about how they went to the most snobbish institution in the world. That obvious enough for you?
    But, private education implies that you can only access it if you have money (scholarships excepted).

    There is no such requirement at Cambridge.

    Cambridge University -- like Harvard University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Princeton University, Yale University, Brown University-- operate needs-blind admission.

    If you pass the academic admission criteria, then there is no financial obstacle to attending.

    Most Universities with large endowments can afford to operate need-blind admission.

    That is exactly the opposite of private schools.
    Having tangentially known a worker bee in one College's admissions office the criteria are not all academic and snobbery still lingers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,821
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
    My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.
    Ratnering their brand. Its the whole USP of the Tory Party.

    The thing is I am not sure there is a replacement that will be (able) to propose a lower tax approach anytime soon. Economic outlook is bad and so much money has been spent. We are all going to get hammered for the next 10 years whoever is in power.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,250

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    Apt. Cheese n Crackers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    edited May 31

    Apols if already posted, but this is a fascinating interview.

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/dominic-cummings-i-dont-like-parties/

    Dominic Cummings with Suzanne Moore.

    She asks all the questions you would want answering.

    (Precis: Basically, it's all Carrie's fault.)

    Big Dom, never fails to come across as such a humble and likable guy.
    I was particularly amused by his criticism that 'civil servants and politicians all did similar degrees at similar universities,' apparently without a trace of irony.

    But it is an interesting interview, if only for the insight into his own wounded vanity.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    15 gallons? Doesn't sound unreasonable for a biggish road vehicle if the gauge was very low.
    Gallons? What are they, forsooth?
    4.546 l to you. Good for mental arithmetic.
    Thanks Matt. Presumaly you pay for them in groats?
    And then have the arguments over whether debased Henry VIII ones are acceptable or not.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,819
    dixiedean said:

    boulay said:

    TOPPING said:

    Bloody hell do I have to explain all my jokes I thought you lot were a sophisticated crowd.

    Trigger’s broom.
    At least one of us was sophisticated enough to know it as Theseus' trireme paradox.
    Mange tout, mange tout, Dixie.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,821
    edited May 31
    ydoethur said:

    Apols if already posted, but this is a fascinating interview.

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/dominic-cummings-i-dont-like-parties/

    Dominic Cummings with Suzanne Moore.

    She asks all the questions you would want answering.

    (Precis: Basically, it's all Carrie's fault.)

    Big Dom, never fails to come across as such a humble and likable guy.
    I was particularly amused by his criticism that 'civil servants and politicians all did similar degrees at similar universities,' apparently without a trace of irony.

    But it is an interesting interview, if only for the insight into his own wounded vanity.
    As often with Cummings he makes many interesting and often spot on observations, but he can never resist from the well if only everybody listened to me routine and that his solution to most problems involves vague revolution and chaos...which might be fine for a tech start-up, where the only downside is blowing some VC money, but rather bigger costs to failure when you are talking about government policy.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    Apt. Cheese n Crackers.
    I'd love to carry out some psychometrics on Cummings. He would be such an interesting study. I suspect he suffers very badly from Psychological projection and a paranoia and narcissism that rivals his old boss. Sociopathy would definitely be in there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,821
    edited May 31
    Trans activist who heckled Nadhim Zahawi off Warwick University campus is the son of Ed Balls and Labour Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper

    In video posted by the Warwick Labour society, Joel Cooper interrupts the Education Secretary's Q&A to heckle him over his stance on trans rights. He then sits down after his monologue to cheers from fellow Labour activists

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10870697/Trans-activist-heckled-Nadhim-Zahawi-Warwick-University-campus-son-Yvette-Cooper.html

    I believe there was a bit of a dust up yesterday on here with at the time unsupported claims there was a Labour angle involved in this story.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
    My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.
    I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.
    I've honestly never known a Tory government to simply give up on supply side economics. It's as if Rishi has just thrown away all of the first year economics text books and decided that pumping up demand is going to solve the inflation problem. Completely mad.
    Hes given labour a double digit lead as party of low tax. Quite insane.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))
    Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
    FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
    Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.
    Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
    Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    Trans activist who heckled Nadhim Zahawi off Warwick University campus is the son of Ed Balls and Labour Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper

    In video posted by the Warwick Labour society, Joel Cooper interrupts the Education Secretary's Q&A to heckle him over his stance on trans rights. He then sits down after his monologue to cheers from fellow Labour activists

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10870697/Trans-activist-heckled-Nadhim-Zahawi-Warwick-University-campus-son-Yvette-Cooper.html

    I believe there was a bit of a dust up yesterday on here with at the time unsupported claims there was a Labour angle involved in this story.

    Joel Cooper? A trans activist who dropped Balls? That is brilliant.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136
    dixiedean said:

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))
    Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
    FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
    Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.
    Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
    Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
    The thing about Wallace is he is not Big Dog, and I am not referring to Gromit.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/05/31/john-mcdonnell-defends-comrade-sunaks-inflationary-cash-splashing-from-labour-criticism/

    If Tory MPs weren’t comfortable with Comrade Sunak’s £21 billion cost of living package announced last week, they should check out the bizarre through-the-looking-glass situation on Twitter this morning, as John McDonnell defends the Tory chancellor’s spending plans against attacks from Labour that it might cause greater inflation.

    Pretty much sums up where we're at, to be honest.

    Yup, I said this is socialism.

    Mrs Thatcher is spinning in her grave.
    My dad's reaction when he visited us yesterday on the windfall tax "supposedly the party of low taxes", he has voted Tory for 40+ years and was a member for 30+, Boris and Rishi are losing core voters.
    I said last week that I'm expecting rent controls next from this government.
    I've honestly never known a Tory government to simply give up on supply side economics. It's as if Rishi has just thrown away all of the first year economics text books and decided that pumping up demand is going to solve the inflation problem. Completely mad.
    Make a start on un-printing that £600bn. Conduct a full spending review. Look at government-held assets for disposal. Start a debate on what exactly government should be providing in the future. Invest in automation technology for government services.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,821
    The BBC changed the testimony of a rape victim after a debate over the pronouns of her transgender attacker, The Times has learnt.

    The woman referred to her alleged rapist as “him” but insiders said that her words were changed to avoid “misgendering” the abuser in an article on the corporation’s website.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-altered-gender-in-trans-rape-claim-3cqj73tq5
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    dixiedean said:

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))
    Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
    FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
    Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.
    Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
    Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
    The thing about Wallace is he is not Big Dog, and I am not referring to Gromit.
    So you're saying he's not an Aardman?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,112
    Now even the ERG aren't brexity enough! https://twitter.com/bea_johanssen/status/1531600558251028481
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,297
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))
    Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
    FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
    Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.
    Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
    Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
    The thing about Wallace is he is not Big Dog, and I am not referring to Gromit.
    So you're saying he's not an Aardman?
    I think we should Park this conversation.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))
    Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
    FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
    Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.
    Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
    Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
    The thing about Wallace is he is not Big Dog, and I am not referring to Gromit.
    So you're saying he's not an Aardman?
    Very good. Had to look that one up.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,709
    Who runs the airports ?
    Seem to be thick as mince.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    I suppose though @Nigel_Foremain I would have been better served with the punch line from the Now Show spoof ad in 2020:

    'But what he is, what he has always been, and what he will be as your next President, is Not Donald Trump. And that is what makes Joe Biden Acceptable, Under the Circumstances.'
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868

    Trans activist who heckled Nadhim Zahawi off Warwick University campus is the son of Ed Balls and Labour Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper

    In video posted by the Warwick Labour society, Joel Cooper interrupts the Education Secretary's Q&A to heckle him over his stance on trans rights. He then sits down after his monologue to cheers from fellow Labour activists

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10870697/Trans-activist-heckled-Nadhim-Zahawi-Warwick-University-campus-son-Yvette-Cooper.html

    I believe there was a bit of a dust up yesterday on here with at the time unsupported claims there was a Labour angle involved in this story.

    Ah yes, more Tory bigots stoking a culture war.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))
    Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
    FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
    Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.
    Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
    Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
    The thing about Wallace is he is not Big Dog, and I am not referring to Gromit.
    So you're saying he's not an Aardman?
    I think we should Park this conversation.
    Hey, don't try to Nick my puns.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 12,136
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This is a tad worrying, from Cummings, in the UnHerd interview....

    "And they actually could get somebody worse: Liz Truss would be even worse than Boris. She’s about as close to properly crackers as anybody I’ve met in Parliament."

    My father and I had a discussion on the phone this morning, i brought up Boris and that i think its game over. He's a non voter/occasional Tory (voted Tory 2019 and 2010 but not bothered in 15 or 17 and hadn't voted prior since 92 he tells me, but he always votes for a councillor (of all stripes))
    Anyway, he is virulently anti Truss (as much as he now despises Johnson)
    FWIW, the Woolie's Dad tip is Ben Wallace 'he seems a good bloke'
    Thing about Wallace is. He may be good. He may not. The only job he's had is Defence. It's ridiculously low profile. Then there's a War. He can't really lose there. He hasn't had a difficult gig in public.
    Hie expenses in 2008 may be an issue too.
    Fourth highest trougher in an ultra-competitive field.
    The thing about Wallace is he is not Big Dog, and I am not referring to Gromit.
    So you're saying he's not an Aardman?
    I think we should Park this conversation.
    Yea, as we are on PB we might hear from SeanTheSheep.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,631

    ydoethur said:

    PJH said:

    Heathener said:

    I'd think Hunt and Wallace appeal to the same "serious common sense" sector of the party, which is probably more represented in the Parliamentary party than the wider membership, who are more into "serious conservatism". So I'd have thought a Hunt vs Truss final was more likely than a Hunt vs Wallace one. But others here are better-placed to judge, eh?

    Certainly betting on a VONC happening seems a strong option, but beware of Betfair's market on this - you're betting on whether the VONC succeeds, perhaps a more iffy proposition.

    A new leader will certainly give a temporary bounce - lots of people like BigG and dyedwoolie are natural Conservatives who would return to the fold. But the situation is objectively difficult, so the new person will struggle to come up with bright new prospects. From that viewpoint, the Tories might be best off with a change next year, by which time the energy price spike may have unwound, giving the new leader an aura of miraculous success. Either way it does seem to me that the dominant public view is that the Conservatives have run out of steam, much as they felt about Labour in 2009-10.

    Tbf Nick even my dislike of Labour is starting to feel like not enough regardless of what the Tories do for next time.
    I quite like imperial measurements, so does my butcher for example, however bringing them back in some triumphant flag waving weirdness whilst we are mired in war, economic crisis and coming out of a really depressing 2 years makes the Cones Hotline look good politics.
    Indeed.

    The thing is, we already use a mixture of metric and imperial as it is. It may not be neat and tidy but we're used to it, from old to young. No one is suddenly going to be thrilled to see £7 a gallon petrol signs appearing.

    If David Canzini, or whichever muppet dreamt this up, thinks it's going to fix Boris Johnson's popularity then they are stark raving bonkers. Or working for the Opposition.
    I'd be happy to see £7 per gallon. That would be a substantial discount on what I paid last night. £120 to fill up... Gulp!
    What do you drive, a chieftain tank?
    Other than my Tesla, I can't think of a car I have had in the last 5 years that hasn't cost £120 to fill up lol.
    With the price of electricity, that will soon cost £550 to fill up.
    It is still about 1/3 of cost of petrol per mile even on a supercharger. Even less if charged on low rate economy 7 over night.
    Have got a Tesla Model Y on order which I have deferred back into Q3 whilst awaiting work stuff to become more clear. Moving car costs to pre tax from post tax makes a lot of sense. Only problem is that I am becoming more attached to my Outlander PHEV now that I've reserved its replacement.

    Fuel costs are only one part of the total cost - and however great pence per mile may look at the moment on leccy vs dino juice, that equation will keep changing.
    It was the BIK that sold it to me. That and the absurd acceleration! It is also very good to drive, and in spite of what the plonkerish CEO of BMW said, easily as good as any of the German cars I have had.
    I don't think people understand until they drive an electric car.

    There is no gearbox. You are always in the right gear with 100% of power available at all times instantly. You are driving a vehicle with a low centre of gravity which means it holds the roll better than a car without a battery pack in the floor.

    When wanging it down your favourite driving road you have this new trick of mid-corner regen. A fossil car might suffer from lift-off oversteer, whereas an EV mid-corner liftoff rebalances the car through regen and helps you corner harder.

    Much as I loved my Volvo S90, the return to both diseasal and a torque-converter gearbox was something I never really got used to. So when it went and got replaced by another PHEV the relief was instant.
    Diesel or electric?

    Deltic or Class 86?

    Only one winner there!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    As the Labour lead has increased since Rishi Sunak gave everyone £9,000, a bag of second hand salt, and a tiny inflatable plastic wildebeest, one has to wonder what would have happened if he had NOT been so generous. Would the Labour lead be 20 points plus? Or have the voters just banked the money and decided, Well, the Tories are mad spaffing socialists, I might as well support Labour - ie, would the Tories be doing better if they were meaner and more Tory?

    It is certainly possible
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,112
    Former Downing Street aide willing to share messages from PM's wife about alleged lockdown gathering in flat with Privileges Committee

    Carrie Johnson said to texted that 'the gay boys' were with her in the flat

    At that point indoor gatherings were banned https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1531603624840798208/photo/1
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Top tip.
    Professional landlords. Solve your financial problems by simply getting a proper job.

    Why is providing high quality housing services not a proper job?

    Houses don't maintain or invest in themselves. Traditionally 15-20% or so of the income goes on maintenance and investment, often done in advance during a full refurbishment with a 10 year+ return period.
    So they’re doing 15-20% of a proper job?

This discussion has been closed.