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In Other News …… – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 5 in General
imageIn Other News …… – politicalbetting.com

Before we get to that, a brief thought on the PM and his amendments to the Ministerial Code. At the heart of most scandals is a conflict of interest: putting your own personal interests ahead of those you should take into account. The PM is ultimately responsible for the Ministerial Code and its enforcement. How is that supposed to work when it is him accused of breaching it and he is under investigation? He should not be judge and jury in his own cause. Nor should he be rewriting it while under investigation. But that is the system we have. It has only worked because PMs have, on the whole, been Good Chaps who understood the need to try and abide by it and, crucially, understood the need to abide by agreed conventions and restraints on Prime Ministerial power. Boris is not such a Good Chap. So, once he goes, matters will snap back to how they were before, right? Not so. It would not matter if the PM was the Archangel Gabriel with the wisdom of Solomon. The conflict of interest is still there. How to resolve it? An independent regulator with the power to initiate investigations? A court? And how does this fit with the fact that the government has been elected? This tension has been highlighted by the PM’s behaviour but it will still be there when he is gone. Among all the sound and fury, this issue has barely been addressed let alone resolved.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,821
    Boris return to imperialism policy isn't even that, its a review to see if they could be allowed to be used (without the metric being dominant). Which I am sure will say nah don't bother.

    The government will launch a review on when and where imperial measurements can be used, to coincide with the Queen's Jubilee weekend.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/61621893
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286

    Boris return to imperialism policy isn't even that, its a review to see if they could be allowed to be used (without the metric being dominant). Which I am sure will say nah don't bother.

    The government will launch a review on when and where imperial measurements can be used, to coincide with the Queen's Jubilee weekend.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/61621893

    And now we can sup our jubilee pints from glasses with crown marks, provided any can be manufactured, tested and distributed by [checks notes] Thursday.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10864245/Boris-Johnson-brings-Crown-symbol-pint-glasses-Queens-Platinum-Jubilee.html

    As Angela Rayner said, the government is weaponising nostalgia. It is unlikely these measures will have any practical effect.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    edited May 29
    The Daily Star reports speculation that Putin might be dead (or alive). Infer what you will from the paper relegating its world exclusive to page seven.

    Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
    Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-dead-body-double-27089711
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,452

    The Daily Star reports speculation that Putin might be dead (or alive). Infer what you will from the paper relegating its world exclusive to page seven.

    Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
    Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-dead-body-double-27089711

    This is at least 5 levels of things you should't believe all stacked on top of each other

    * Something you want to believe about your adversary who just had a relatively good week
    * In a newspaper headline
    * In the Daily Star
    * Based on an anonymous source
    * From British Intelligence
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    edited May 29
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403

    The Daily Star reports speculation that Putin might be dead (or alive). Infer what you will from the paper relegating its world exclusive to page seven.

    Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
    Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-dead-body-double-27089711

    They're not used to people making it to page seven. It's usually front page back page bin....
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    edited May 29

    The Uighur genocide is a genocide, not a war. Words have meanings.

    Agreed.

    And as for @Cyclefree's other points, the world has a lot wrong with it and it is probably going to stay that way for some time.

    I was reflecting a few days ago on the fact that the UN "Security" Council has 5 permanent members made up of:

    One nation controlled by a warmonger
    One nation conducting a genocide
    One nation in full insular nationalism mode
    One nation tearing itself in half politically thanks to Trump
    The French

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,660
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mrs C, you're right that we should keep things in perspective. Thank goodness we're not French.

    :p
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,859
    edited May 29
    Morning all.

    Does anyone know what became of the by-election polls that Wavy person last night claimed inside knowledge on? I was suspicious that someone should sign up and then claim specialist knowledge as this is the sort of thing unscrupulous people do to move the Spread markets in their favour.

    Hope I was wrong?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,493

    The Uighur genocide is a genocide, not a war. Words have meanings.

    Those two terms are not mutually exclusive. I am sure that Cyclefree chose the term 'war' carefully, probably to highlight further the lack of outrage about the Uighur activities vs. the war in Ukraine.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,859
    edited May 29
    Okay I've checked back:

    On that note, rumours going around that one of the papers has polls for both byelections, done by NCPolitics mostly after Sue Gray
    Blue team are getting absolutely hammered in Wakefield (much much worse than YouGov's general election model says). Votes going all over the place. David H (formerly of this parish) apparently getting a few. Overall not even close
    But Tiverton is close and sliding towards the LDems
    Voters told the poll they’re livid about the photos, Tories getting theirs out to vote is going to be a big problem for them

    Update: Apparently it's for one of the dailies, so not out tonight

    Basically this person just signed up to the site, then claimed inside knowledge of two polls, one showing Labour to win massively in Wakefield, the other that the tories would hold Tiverton & Honiton.

    I was instantly suspicious because inside knowledge is often claimed in order to spike or spook the Spread markets. Also because I don't believe the one about Tiverton & Honiton. It doesn't fit imho.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,452
    edited May 29

    The Uighur genocide is a genocide, not a war. Words have meanings.

    Those two terms are not mutually exclusive. I am sure that Cyclefree chose the term 'war' carefully, probably to highlight further the lack of outrage about the Uighur activities vs. the war in Ukraine.
    There's no need to mix all the words up, it's not like everyone thinks genocide is fine.

    The difference between Ukraine and Uighur isn't the enormity of the crime, it's that one crosses an international boundary and the other doesn't, because Xinjiang is part of China. There are good, practical reasons for having different responses to these different types of things.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876

    Boris return to imperialism policy isn't even that, its a review to see if they could be allowed to be used (without the metric being dominant). Which I am sure will say nah don't bother.

    The government will launch a review on when and where imperial measurements can be used, to coincide with the Queen's Jubilee weekend.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/61621893

    It's a dead cat!!!!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,493
    I really enjoyed the article. Of course I would, as I am always urging header writers to be sharp and succinct, so I enjoyed the bitesize takes on different subjects, and the over all theme - stuff you may have missed, which of course, I had, and I suspect most will have. That motivates the reader, because we think that this will be a quick read, after which we'll be better informed than our work colleagues or friends on a number of important issues, which is exactly what it delivers.

    I can never be as outraged at the course of political or world events as Cyclefree - it's just a difference in world view. Cyclefree looks at the world like a loving but extemely disappointed mum who is about to ground you and remove your internet and TV privileges for a week. It's not a criticism though, that's Cyclefree's schtick - every columnist has one, and it means the readership knows what to expect and a fanbase develops.

    A note on something - the Israel thing is very sad, but unsurprising in some ways. Sunni and Shia are at daggers drawn. Israel has aligned itself strongly with Sunni elements (as has the West), in my view wrongly, but given history, unsurprisingly I suppose. It has struck Shia countries like Syria, become very cuddly with Sunni Saudi Arabia, and even supported some dubious elements in the Syrian civil war, aimed at destabilising Assad. Iraq is a Shia regime, so this new law could well be an attempt (albeit a horribly blunt and racist one) to prevent hostile espionage.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    .

    The Uighur genocide is a genocide, not a war. Words have meanings.

    Those two terms are not mutually exclusive. I am sure that Cyclefree chose the term 'war' carefully, probably to highlight further the lack of outrage about the Uighur activities vs. the war in Ukraine.
    There's no need to mix all the words up, it's not like everyone thinks genocide is fine.

    The difference between Ukraine and Uighur isn't the enormity of the crime, it's that one crosses an international boundary and the other doesn't, because Xinjiang is part of China. There are good, practical reasons for having different responses to these different types of things.
    Yes, it’s not a civil war, either.
    The repression is total, and the Uighur have little or no means of resisting the regime’s dreadful crimes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    Among all the sound and fury, this issue has barely been addressed let alone resolved.

    It was certainly commented on.
    The reason Johnson’s radical and disgraceful rewriting of the introduction to the new ministerial code is so significant is precisely because the PM is the arbiter of the code itself.

    It’s fair comment to highlight the point again, as Cyclefree does.
    Ken Clarke’s intervention yesterday was also to the point.

    UK ‘dangerously close to elected dictatorship’ under Boris Johnson, Ken Clarke warns
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/johnson-ken-clarke-elected-dictatorship-b1964326.html
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700
    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,660
    Betting Post

    F1: backed over 16.5 classified finishers at 2.2

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/05/monaco-pre-race-2022.html

    If the numbers of the last three races this year or last three Monaco Grands Prix are replicated, it should come off. Not very exciting as bets go, mind.

    I was tempted by Sainz at 9.4 for the win.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,018

    The Daily Star reports speculation that Putin might be dead (or alive). Infer what you will from the paper relegating its world exclusive to page seven.

    Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
    Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-dead-body-double-27089711

    Back in the day, “He’s dead and replaced by a body double” used to be trope for all the funkier dictators. Saddam Hussein, for example - every year someone would wave that story.

    Interesting they are reviving it for Putin.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    The Daily Star reports speculation that Putin might be dead (or alive). Infer what you will from the paper relegating its world exclusive to page seven.

    Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
    Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-dead-body-double-27089711

    Back in the day, “He’s dead and replaced by a body double” used to be trope for all the funkier dictators. Saddam Hussein, for example - every year someone would wave that story.

    Interesting they are reviving it for Putin.
    Boris Johnson to be replaced by sack of manure? I guess it’s an improvement. Less stench, might actually fertilise some green shoots.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    Isn’t @ydoethur considering the possibility of a career change ?

    Lubov Plaksuk, a former history teacher who has been serving in the Ukrainian army since 2016, has become the commander of the Armed Forces’ artillery subdivision.

    She managed to tame the 2S5 Giatsint-S 152 mm self-propelled gun in just four days.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530796355177824257
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,859
    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    They did NOT turn up '20 minutes before kick off'

    For the most part they were there 2.5 hours before, as the article itself states.

    Please leave aside the hideous Liverpool-bashing and just deal with the facts.

    A few posters on here should hang their heads in shame and apologise, including to TSE.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    Heathener said:

    Okay I've checked back:

    On that note, rumours going around that one of the papers has polls for both byelections, done by NCPolitics mostly after Sue Gray
    Blue team are getting absolutely hammered in Wakefield (much much worse than YouGov's general election model says). Votes going all over the place. David H (formerly of this parish) apparently getting a few. Overall not even close
    But Tiverton is close and sliding towards the LDems
    Voters told the poll they’re livid about the photos, Tories getting theirs out to vote is going to be a big problem for them

    Update: Apparently it's for one of the dailies, so not out tonight

    Basically this person just signed up to the site, then claimed inside knowledge of two polls, one showing Labour to win massively in Wakefield, the other that the tories would hold Tiverton & Honiton.

    I was instantly suspicious because inside knowledge is often claimed in order to spike or spook the Spread markets. Also because I don't believe the one about Tiverton & Honiton. It doesn't fit imho.
    Sounds unspectacular. He/she hears the Tories are going to lose both. One badly the other less so. One to labour the other to the Lib Dems. What's not to believe or like?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    Zelenskiy has conceded that not all the land that Russia has seized since it annexed Crimea in 2014 can be recaptured militarily. While he is certain his country will take back the territory Russia has claimed since its 24 February invasion, he said other territory could not be recovered by force. (Guardian)

    “I do not believe that we can restore all of our territory by military means. If we decide to go that way, we will lose hundreds of thousands of people,”
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    I heard it was trying to get in with fake tickets
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I've checked back:

    On that note, rumours going around that one of the papers has polls for both byelections, done by NCPolitics mostly after Sue Gray
    Blue team are getting absolutely hammered in Wakefield (much much worse than YouGov's general election model says). Votes going all over the place. David H (formerly of this parish) apparently getting a few. Overall not even close
    But Tiverton is close and sliding towards the LDems
    Voters told the poll they’re livid about the photos, Tories getting theirs out to vote is going to be a big problem for them

    Update: Apparently it's for one of the dailies, so not out tonight

    Basically this person just signed up to the site, then claimed inside knowledge of two polls, one showing Labour to win massively in Wakefield, the other that the tories would hold Tiverton & Honiton.

    I was instantly suspicious because inside knowledge is often claimed in order to spike or spook the Spread markets. Also because I don't believe the one about Tiverton & Honiton. It doesn't fit imho.
    Sounds unspectacular. He/she hears the Tories are going to lose both. One badly the other less so. One to labour the other to the Lib Dems. What's not to believe or like?
    If the Tories can lose Oswestry then they can’t assume *any* seat can be defended.

    That’s in by-elections, but the last time they lost Oswestry in a by-election it presaged what remains their worst ever electoral defeat - the Liberal landslide of 1906.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 146

    The Uighur genocide is a genocide, not a war. Words have meanings.

    Agreed.

    And as for @Cyclefree's other points, the world has a lot wrong with it and it is probably going to stay that way for some time.

    I was reflecting a few days ago on the fact that the UN "Security" Council has 5 permanent members made up of:

    One nation controlled by a warmonger
    One nation conducting a genocide
    One nation in full insular nationalism mode
    One nation tearing itself in half politically thanks to Trump
    The French

    :
    @Beibheirli_C just to add a bit of detail to your descriptions:

    One nation controlled by a warmonger
    One nation conducting a genocide (with a freshly minted alliance with the warmonger)
    One nation in full insular nationalism mode (with demonstrable manipulation of the by the warmonger)
    One nation tearing itself in half politically thanks to Trump (who met without anyone else present with the warmonger)
    The French (who have just resisted electing a potential President with strong links to the warmonger)

    The French seem to be doing rather well, considering.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    edited May 29
    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700
    edited May 29
    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    They did NOT turn up '20 minutes before kick off'

    For the most part they were there 2.5 hours before, as the article itself states.

    Please leave aside the hideous Liverpool-bashing and just deal with the facts.

    A few posters on here should hang their heads in shame and apologise, including to TSE.



    Clearly plenty of Liverpool fans had got in 15 minutes before kick off. But clearly almost every Real fan was in 15 minutes before kick off.

    So which is it? Were Liverpool fans treated worse than Real fans or did Liverpool fans do something different to Real fans?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Spare a thought for writers at the Telegraph. Having preached the virtue of austerity for years, now they have to do a screeching u-turn with articles like ‘Sunak’s £5 billion spending spree will help Britain avoid Japan’s fate.’

    But when you spare a thought, try not to rupture yourself laughing.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,859
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    They did NOT turn up '20 minutes before kick off'

    For the most part they were there 2.5 hours before, as the article itself states.

    Please leave aside the hideous Liverpool-bashing and just deal with the facts.

    A few posters on here should hang their heads in shame and apologise, including to TSE.



    Clearly plenty of Liverpool fans had got in 15 minutes before kick off. But clearly almost every Real fan was in 15 minutes before kick off.

    So which is it? Were Liverpool fans treated worse than Real fans or did Liverpool fans do something different to Real fans?
    Liverpool fans arrived "with hours to spare" and were pushed through a bottleneck and then entry gates were kept shut. They were then tear gased.

    If you don't know what the hell you are talking about don't talk.

    From that left-wing rag the Sunday Telegraph:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/05/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delayed-severe-fan-congestion/

    "Fans were caught in bottlenecks despite arriving at the stadium with hours to spare, with the organisation around the arena described as "shambolic" as the chaotic situation left many supporters fearing for their safety.

    Pepper spray was also used on fans, with UEFA now facing serious questions over safety and policing as many children were left in tears, some after being pepper sprayed."


  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
    Right, so who is to blame for counterfeit tickets?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 146
    Great header as always, Cyclefree, thank you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    ydoethur said:

    Spare a thought for writers at the Telegraph. Having preached the virtue of austerity for years, now they have to do a screeching u-turn with articles like ‘Sunak’s £5 billion spending spree will help Britain avoid Japan’s fate.’

    But when you spare a thought, try not to rupture yourself laughing.

    As someone noted yesterday, such shameless inconsistency, and regular jolting reversals of opinion are the standard fare of journalists. It’s when they become politicians, and retain the habit….
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,859
    edited May 29
    "I was tear gased by disgraceful French riot police"

    The Sunday Telegraph Chief Football Correspondent

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/05/28/pepper-sprayed-disgraceful-french-riot-police-champions-league/

    "It was outside Gate Y that I was caught in the pepper spray used indiscriminately by French riot police inside the Stade de France. I was talking to Liverpool fans who were waiting patiently, some for up to three hours, to try and get inside the stadium when it wafted into my face, stinging my eyes, lips and tongue. I saw it being sprayed. I could not quite believe it. One fan closer to the spray than me was bent double, retching, as he struggled to cope.

    It was a shock, a complete shock – had what had happened just happened? - and it was utterly disgraceful. This is Uefa’s showpiece event, the biggest and most prestigious match of the season at one of the largest stadiums in Europe which is used to hosting such big matches. And yet the police were, it appeared to me, using pepper spray in the direction of fans who were simply standing patiently holding their tickets and pleading to be allowed in.

    And, by the way, there was not a Uefa official to be seen. I did not see anyone in the hour I was outside the stadium trying to find out what was going on. No-one tried to offer any explanation or help the fans. And I only spoke to fans who had tickets. I made sure of that."

    Next time, @tlg86, @Leon et. al. CHECK YOUR BLOODY FACTS before dredging up your hate-filled preconceived bile. Grrrrrr.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454
    Roger said:
    Yes, Beth Rigbys a nasty piece of work.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700
    Always the victims, it's never their fault.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,018
    Nigelb said:

    Isn’t @ydoethur considering the possibility of a career change ?

    Lubov Plaksuk, a former history teacher who has been serving in the Ukrainian army since 2016, has become the commander of the Armed Forces’ artillery subdivision.

    She managed to tame the 2S5 Giatsint-S 152 mm self-propelled gun in just four days.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530796355177824257

    That sound was the sound of 10,000 civil servants at the DfE shitting themselves in terror.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,859
    tlg86 said:

    Always the victims, it's never their fault.

    You are being a total prick this morning.

    Sad to say.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    edited May 29
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
    Right, so who is to blame for counterfeit tickets?
    Counterfeiters? Touts? It is unlikely that thousands of fans each fired up Microsoft Word and made their own tickets.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Ulvade shooting: Kamala Harris calls for assault weapons ban
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61621470
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
    Right, so who is to blame for counterfeit tickets?
    Counterfeiters? Touts? Or do you think thousands of fans each fired up Microsoft Word and made their own tickets?
    Erm, how about you don't buy tickets off touts?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    edited May 29

    Nigelb said:

    Isn’t @ydoethur considering the possibility of a career change ?

    Lubov Plaksuk, a former history teacher who has been serving in the Ukrainian army since 2016, has become the commander of the Armed Forces’ artillery subdivision.

    She managed to tame the 2S5 Giatsint-S 152 mm self-propelled gun in just four days.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1530796355177824257

    That sound was the sound of 10,000 civil servants at the DfE shitting themselves in terror.
    I wouldn’t shoot them. Well, not unless I was using crossed silver.

    Edit - incidentally, don’t exaggerate. There are only 5,000 civil servants at the DfE.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
    Right, so who is to blame for counterfeit tickets?
    Counterfeiters? Touts? Or do you think thousands of fans each fired up Microsoft Word and made their own tickets?
    Erm, how about you don't buy tickets off touts?
    Third party sales have been around for decades, some less official than others. The problem that led to disorder last night was that fake tickets caused a bottleneck outside the ground, and at some point the French police started indiscriminately spraying fans. This is reported in your link.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454
    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    I heard it was trying to get in with fake tickets
    At the risk of getting called out, on R5 on Friday morning a Liverpool fan explicitly said he would try to get in without a ticket. On national radio, around 8am. I have no doubt some did try, although apparently locals did too.
    But in 2022 we should not see this. How are we not capable of managing crowds? Outer ring of steel to screen for those with tickets. Then it’s easy.
    I am coming to the conclusion that due to Covid and the hiatus in big sporting events with crowds, we’ve forgotten how to manage them. Us, at Wembley and now the french.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    Scott_xP said:

    The Times reports that Downing Street had access to drafts of Sue Gray's report in advance and intervened to get details of the Abba party in Boris Johnson's flat removed.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/muzzled-how-senior-officials-fought-to-water-down-sue-gray-report-vrw5xk0t6 https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1530627345262219264/photo/1

    BoZo would never do that. Oh, wait...

    The Arcuri inquiry has found Johnson deleted crucial evidence stored in digital devices, email accounts and computer drives before he left as mayor https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/boris-johnson-teams-city-hall-24087497.amp

    No.10 has denied it, so there’s at least an evens chance that it’s true.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938
    Heathener said:

    Okay I've checked back:

    On that note, rumours going around that one of the papers has polls for both byelections, done by NCPolitics mostly after Sue Gray
    Blue team are getting absolutely hammered in Wakefield (much much worse than YouGov's general election model says). Votes going all over the place. David H (formerly of this parish) apparently getting a few. Overall not even close
    But Tiverton is close and sliding towards the LDems
    Voters told the poll they’re livid about the photos, Tories getting theirs out to vote is going to be a big problem for them

    Update: Apparently it's for one of the dailies, so not out tonight

    I don't believe the one about Tiverton & Honiton. It doesn't fit imho.
    Go there. See for yourself.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
    Right, so who is to blame for counterfeit tickets?
    Counterfeiters? Touts? Or do you think thousands of fans each fired up Microsoft Word and made their own tickets?
    Erm, how about you don't buy tickets off touts?
    Third party sales have been around for decades, some less official than others. The problem that led to disorder last night was that fake tickets caused a bottleneck outside the ground, and at some point the French police started indiscriminately spraying fans. This is reported in your link.
    If you rock up to the ground with a fake ticket, there's only one person to blame. You.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Times reports that Downing Street had access to drafts of Sue Gray's report in advance and intervened to get details of the Abba party in Boris Johnson's flat removed.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/muzzled-how-senior-officials-fought-to-water-down-sue-gray-report-vrw5xk0t6 https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1530627345262219264/photo/1

    BoZo would never do that. Oh, wait...

    The Arcuri inquiry has found Johnson deleted crucial evidence stored in digital devices, email accounts and computer drives before he left as mayor https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/boris-johnson-teams-city-hall-24087497.amp

    No.10 has denied it, so there’s at least an evens chance that it’s true.
    As Jim Hacker said, Never Believe Anything Until It’s Been Officially Denied.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700

    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    I heard it was trying to get in with fake tickets
    At the risk of getting called out, on R5 on Friday morning a Liverpool fan explicitly said he would try to get in without a ticket. On national radio, around 8am. I have no doubt some did try, although apparently locals did too.
    But in 2022 we should not see this. How are we not capable of managing crowds? Outer ring of steel to screen for those with tickets. Then it’s easy.
    I am coming to the conclusion that due to Covid and the hiatus in big sporting events with crowds, we’ve forgotten how to manage them. Us, at Wembley and now the french.
    I can kind of understand the complacency at Wembley, though in hindsight it looked a terrible decision. But I am surprised that there wasn't a ring of steel at the Stade de France last night.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    edited May 29
    Russia won't use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, says ambassador to UK
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61618902

    Though how seriously you can take him is questionable.
    …In a sometimes terse exchange with the BBC's Clive Myrie, the ambassador also denied Russian forces were shelling civilians and said allegations of war crimes in the town of Bucha were a "fabrication"…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454

    Roger said:
    Yes, Beth Rigbys a nasty piece of work.
    Off topic? What a puerile response to a gentle Sunday morning joke.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454
    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    I heard it was trying to get in with fake tickets
    At the risk of getting called out, on R5 on Friday morning a Liverpool fan explicitly said he would try to get in without a ticket. On national radio, around 8am. I have no doubt some did try, although apparently locals did too.
    But in 2022 we should not see this. How are we not capable of managing crowds? Outer ring of steel to screen for those with tickets. Then it’s easy.
    I am coming to the conclusion that due to Covid and the hiatus in big sporting events with crowds, we’ve forgotten how to manage them. Us, at Wembley and now the french.
    I can kind of understand the complacency at Wembley, though in hindsight it looked a terrible decision. But I am surprised that there wasn't a ring of steel at the Stade de France last night.
    No. Football fans en masse are not to be trusted, sadly. You would not get thi# issue at rugby. 99% of football fans are decent folk, but the 1% wreck everything.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
    English Heritage.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    Scott_xP said:

    The Times reports that Downing Street had access to drafts of Sue Gray's report in advance and intervened to get details of the Abba party in Boris Johnson's flat removed.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/muzzled-how-senior-officials-fought-to-water-down-sue-gray-report-vrw5xk0t6 https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1530627345262219264/photo/1

    BoZo would never do that. Oh, wait...

    The Arcuri inquiry has found Johnson deleted crucial evidence stored in digital devices, email accounts and computer drives before he left as mayor https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/boris-johnson-teams-city-hall-24087497.amp

    Hero to zero in ten months. From being a harmless clown he now appears to be reviled. I heard an Any Questions and later Any Answers yesterday and an HIGNFY on Friday and the mood of audience and respondents was of a different order to what we've seen before. Jokes at Johnson's expense weren't even considered a laughing matter. I wouldn't bet your house on him being in post till 2024.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    I heard it was trying to get in with fake tickets
    At the risk of getting called out, on R5 on Friday morning a Liverpool fan explicitly said he would try to get in without a ticket. On national radio, around 8am. I have no doubt some did try, although apparently locals did too.
    But in 2022 we should not see this. How are we not capable of managing crowds? Outer ring of steel to screen for those with tickets. Then it’s easy.
    I am coming to the conclusion that due to Covid and the hiatus in big sporting events with crowds, we’ve forgotten how to manage them. Us, at Wembley and now the french.
    I can kind of understand the complacency at Wembley, though in hindsight it looked a terrible decision. But I am surprised that there wasn't a ring of steel at the Stade de France last night.
    No. Football fans en masse are not to be trusted, sadly. You would not get thi# issue at rugby. 99% of football fans are decent folk, but the 1% wreck everything.
    Especially after a drink or ten.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Times reports that Downing Street had access to drafts of Sue Gray's report in advance and intervened to get details of the Abba party in Boris Johnson's flat removed.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/muzzled-how-senior-officials-fought-to-water-down-sue-gray-report-vrw5xk0t6 https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1530627345262219264/photo/1

    BoZo would never do that. Oh, wait...

    The Arcuri inquiry has found Johnson deleted crucial evidence stored in digital devices, email accounts and computer drives before he left as mayor https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/boris-johnson-teams-city-hall-24087497.amp

    Hero to zero in ten months. From being a harmless clown he now appears to be reviled. I heard an Any Questions and later Any Answers yesterday and an HIGNFY on Friday and the mood of audience and respondents was of a different order to what we've seen before. Jokes at Johnson's expense weren't even considered a laughing matter. I wouldn't bet your house on him being in post till 2024.
    Just like Mugabe and Saddam, according to you.

    Madness.

    The U.K. under Johnson is like Mugabes Zimbabwe 😂😂😂😂😜
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    edited May 29
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
    Right, so who is to blame for counterfeit tickets?
    Counterfeiters? Touts? Or do you think thousands of fans each fired up Microsoft Word and made their own tickets?
    Erm, how about you don't buy tickets off touts?
    Third party sales have been around for decades, some less official than others. The problem that led to disorder last night was that fake tickets caused a bottleneck outside the ground, and at some point the French police started indiscriminately spraying fans. This is reported in your link.
    If you rock up to the ground with a fake ticket, there's only one person to blame. You.
    How are ordinary fans to tell the ticket they have spent hundreds of pounds on is fake? And what of the role of the French authorities? And the counterfeiters and touts?
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
    English Heritage.
    They may not be rotten, but their credibility lies in ruins.
    That’s very good indeed 😂
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876

    Roger said:
    Yes, Beth Rigbys a nasty piece of work.
    Off topic? What a puerile response to a gentle Sunday morning joke.
    I don't agree that Beth Rigby is a "nasty piece of work" at all. She's not a client journalist. She asks the telling questions.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,700

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
    Right, so who is to blame for counterfeit tickets?
    Counterfeiters? Touts? Or do you think thousands of fans each fired up Microsoft Word and made their own tickets?
    Erm, how about you don't buy tickets off touts?
    Third party sales have been around for decades, some less official than others. The problem that led to disorder last night was that fake tickets caused a bottleneck outside the ground, and at some point the French police started indiscriminately spraying fans. This is reported in your link.
    If you rock up to the ground with a fake ticket, there's only one person to blame. You.
    How are ordinary fans to tell the ticket they have spent hundreds of pounds on is fake? And what of the role of the French authorities? And the counterfeiters and touts?
    Basically, don't buy off anyone other than the club or direct from UEFA.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
    English Heritage.
    They may not be rotten, but their credibility lies in ruins.
    That’s very good indeed 😂
    Why thank you, I’m here all week.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    Your link says problems began two and a half hours beforehand. It also blames thousands of counterfeit tickets, something we speculated on yesterday.
    Right, so who is to blame for counterfeit tickets?
    Counterfeiters? Touts? Or do you think thousands of fans each fired up Microsoft Word and made their own tickets?
    Erm, how about you don't buy tickets off touts?
    Third party sales have been around for decades, some less official than others. The problem that led to disorder last night was that fake tickets caused a bottleneck outside the ground, and at some point the French police started indiscriminately spraying fans. This is reported in your link.
    If you rock up to the ground with a fake ticket, there's only one person to blame. You.
    How are ordinary fans to tell the ticket they have spent hundreds of pounds on is fake? And what of the role of the French authorities? And the counterfeiters and touts?
    It does sound like the fans are more sinned against than sinning here.

    From the reports the management of access and egress to the stadium was shambolic yet they hold plenty of well attended events there.

    At least they made it there, there was also the case of the hundreds of fans left abandoned by a coach company who failed to pick them up as promised in spite of paying for the trip.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403

    Roger said:
    Yes, Beth Rigbys a nasty piece of work.
    Haha! I thought it quite courageous of her. To face up to a very powerful person on a podium surrounded by cameras who was clearly extremely angry was impressive
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
    English Heritage.
    They may not be rotten, but their credibility lies in ruins.
    That’s very good indeed 😂
    Why thank you, I’m here all week.
    Try the fish.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,597

    Boris return to imperialism policy isn't even that, its a review to see if they could be allowed to be used (without the metric being dominant). Which I am sure will say nah don't bother.

    The government will launch a review on when and where imperial measurements can be used, to coincide with the Queen's Jubilee weekend.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/61621893

    "Let's just say we'd like to avoid any Imperial entanglements!"
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
    English Heritage.
    They may not be rotten, but their credibility lies in ruins.
    That’s very good indeed 😂
    Why thank you, I’m here all week.
    Half term isn't it? And exams almost over?

    And good morning all.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    Still no word from TSE, our man on the spot.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194

    Still no word from TSE, our man on the spot.

    He made it to Paris for the game ?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
    English Heritage.
    They may not be rotten, but their credibility lies in ruins.
    That’s very good indeed 😂
    Why thank you, I’m here all week.
    Half term isn't it? And exams almost over?

    And good morning all.
    Many more exams to come after half term.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
    English Heritage.
    They may not be rotten, but their credibility lies in ruins.
    That’s very good indeed 😂
    Why thank you, I’m here all week.
    Try the fish.
    Thank you for chipping in with that.

    And have a good morning.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,145
    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Times reports that Downing Street had access to drafts of Sue Gray's report in advance and intervened to get details of the Abba party in Boris Johnson's flat removed.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/muzzled-how-senior-officials-fought-to-water-down-sue-gray-report-vrw5xk0t6 https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1530627345262219264/photo/1

    BoZo would never do that. Oh, wait...

    The Arcuri inquiry has found Johnson deleted crucial evidence stored in digital devices, email accounts and computer drives before he left as mayor https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/boris-johnson-teams-city-hall-24087497.amp

    Hero to zero in ten months. From being a harmless clown he now appears to be reviled. I heard an Any Questions and later Any Answers yesterday and an HIGNFY on Friday and the mood of audience and respondents was of a different order to what we've seen before. Jokes at Johnson's expense weren't even considered a laughing matter. I wouldn't bet your house on him being in post till 2024.
    If the fate of the Prime Minister were in the hands of 358 other randomly selected members of the public then he'd be gone before the end of the week, but it isn't. It's in the hands of 358 other Conservative MPs, nearly all of whom are, variously, weak, vacillating, cowardly, paralysed by indecision, as corrupt as Johnson himself, or some combination of these things. We've ample evidence of this from the near-endless and profoundly boring saga of the letters, of which there are never enough, probably never will be enough, and some of which we know have gone in-out-in-out in a farcical hokey-cokey performance, most notably by the Tory leader in Scotland (who has crippled his party and immolated his own career in the process.)

    And then we have to consider what happens even if the mythical tally of 54 letters is ever reached. It would then be necessary to find not 54 but 180 Tories willing to give Johnson the heave-ho, rather than bluster, prevaricate, hide under a rock somewhere on Dartmoor wishing for it all just to stop, and generally try to convince themselves that this will only make things even worse, or that now isn't precisely the right time for whatever spurious reason. It is at this juncture that we turn to history, and remind ourselves that the Sainted Margaret - after over eleven years in power, the poll tax debacle, and a growing public perception that she'd gone loopy - nevertheless won the support of an absolute majority of Tory MPs when challenged for the leadership by Heseltine. She only ended up falling on her sword because the rules were different at the time and a supermajority was required to avoid a second ballot. Johnson doesn't have this problem - if he can get 55% of them to back him like she did, then he is safe for another year.

    In summary, the Tory parliamentary party consists mostly of limp dicks. Don't expect too much from them.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    OT to claim the council tax rebate, I am asked to upload, amongst other things, three months of bank statements to a third party company so that my local authority can look at them. Why? The council can already confirm the account I use to pay it.

    The more data we upload to councils and commercial firms, the more likely it is to get hacked one day. Copies of passports, driving licences, and birth certificates, along with payslips, bank statements and utility bills. All stored in one place. What could possibly go wrong?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Always the victims, it's never their fault.

    You are being a total prick this morning.

    Sad to say.
    Sorry, Heathener. I usually agree with you, but not in this case. If you actively buy tickets off touts, or travels to the game with no tickets intent on breaking in, you mess it up for yourself, the police, the security, and more importantly the thousands of genuine ticket holders stuck behind in the queue.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=what+is+pepper+spray
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,917
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    As ever a quality article from @Cyclefree who never ceases to get to the heart of what is rotten with some of our institutions, especially the Police.

    I’m intrigued. Which institutions do you think are not rotten?
    English Heritage.
    They may not be rotten, but their credibility lies in ruins.
    That’s very good indeed 😂
    Why thank you, I’m here all week.
    Try the fish.
    Thank you for chipping in with that.

    And have a good morning.
    And a peasful one.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,766
    ydoethur said:

    Spare a thought for writers at the Telegraph. Having preached the virtue of austerity for years, now they have to do a screeching u-turn with articles like ‘Sunak’s £5 billion spending spree will help Britain avoid Japan’s fate.’

    But when you spare a thought, try not to rupture yourself laughing.

    I've just had a look at the Telegraph. Most of the articles about Conservative spending policy seem to be wails of lamentation that Rishi has strayed from the true path. There is at least a variety of opinion on this.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,790
    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Times reports that Downing Street had access to drafts of Sue Gray's report in advance and intervened to get details of the Abba party in Boris Johnson's flat removed.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/muzzled-how-senior-officials-fought-to-water-down-sue-gray-report-vrw5xk0t6 https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1530627345262219264/photo/1

    BoZo would never do that. Oh, wait...

    The Arcuri inquiry has found Johnson deleted crucial evidence stored in digital devices, email accounts and computer drives before he left as mayor https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/boris-johnson-teams-city-hall-24087497.amp

    Hero to zero in ten months. From being a harmless clown he now appears to be reviled. I heard an Any Questions and later Any Answers yesterday and an HIGNFY on Friday and the mood of audience and respondents was of a different order to what we've seen before. Jokes at Johnson's expense weren't even considered a laughing matter. I wouldn't bet your house on him being in post till 2024.
    If the fate of the Prime Minister were in the hands of 358 other randomly selected members of the public then he'd be gone before the end of the week, but it isn't. It's in the hands of 358 other Conservative MPs, nearly all of whom are, variously, weak, vacillating, cowardly, paralysed by indecision, as corrupt as Johnson himself, or some combination of these things. We've ample evidence of this from the near-endless and profoundly boring saga of the letters, of which there are never enough, probably never will be enough, and some of which we know have gone in-out-in-out in a farcical hokey-cokey performance, most notably by the Tory leader in Scotland (who has crippled his party and immolated his own career in the process.)

    And then we have to consider what happens even if the mythical tally of 54 letters is ever reached. It would then be necessary to find not 54 but 180 Tories willing to give Johnson the heave-ho, rather than bluster, prevaricate, hide under a rock somewhere on Dartmoor wishing for it all just to stop, and generally try to convince themselves that this will only make things even worse, or that now isn't precisely the right time for whatever spurious reason. It is at this juncture that we turn to history, and remind ourselves that the Sainted Margaret - after over eleven years in power, the poll tax debacle, and a growing public perception that she'd gone loopy - nevertheless won the support of an absolute majority of Tory MPs when challenged for the leadership by Heseltine. She only ended up falling on her sword because the rules were different at the time and a supermajority was required to avoid a second ballot. Johnson doesn't have this problem - if he can get 55% of them to back him like she did, then he is safe for another year.

    In summary, the Tory parliamentary party consists mostly of limp dicks. Don't expect too much from them.
    The ERG, for example, could stop this today, if they wanted. Same as they made TMay's life hell.

    And whilst Steve Baker has broken cover, most of them are either too frit, or- worse- like the current situation.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 9,862

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Always the victims, it's never their fault.

    You are being a total prick this morning.

    Sad to say.
    Sorry, Heathener. I usually agree with you, but not in this case. If you actively buy tickets off touts, or travels to the game with no tickets intent on breaking in, you mess it up for yourself, the police, the security, and more importantly the thousands of genuine ticket holders stuck behind in the queue.
    Sorry but the authorities are fully responsible for security, they must know some people will have attempted to buy off touts and they should have some security and way to get people out of the queue without shutting the queue down for hours, locking the gates, or resorting to tear gas.

    PS its not always touts that cause an issue. I have mentioned before that tickets we legally bought via the genuine website for Monty Python Live were flashed as already having been used when we got there. I never found out what happened, but thankfully I had the proof of purchase on my phone, and the people who were sat in our seats did not, but it caused massive disruption for us - but we were escorted away from the queue while it was resolved, we weren't left to hold up the queue behind us.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,938
    Sad to say, but when Liverpool FC travel, their fans travel with a terrible history and ongoing reputation.

    It is hard to blame any organiser who requires special measures to deal with them ahead of letting them into the stadium. That is not being anti-Liverpool. Equally, it is not being anti-Liverpool to note that Real Madrid fans weren't pepper-sprayed, as they made their way to their seats. They were no problem, as Nottingham Forest fans were no problem as they went into Hillsborough in 1989.

    Organisers take the view that, for whatever reason, over-exuberant Liverpool fans getting into a ground present a particular and unique challenge. Liverpool fans need to earn a reappraisal of that approach. They did nothing to earn it yesterday.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403

    Roger said:
    Yes, Beth Rigbys a nasty piece of work.
    Off topic? What a puerile response to a gentle Sunday morning joke.
    A futile gesture! It doesn't even name the culprit. I suspect it was intended as a 'like' by a short sighted poster.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,347
    Heathener said:

    Okay I've checked back:

    On that note, rumours going around that one of the papers has polls for both byelections, done by NCPolitics mostly after Sue Gray
    Blue team are getting absolutely hammered in Wakefield (much much worse than YouGov's general election model says). Votes going all over the place. David H (formerly of this parish) apparently getting a few. Overall not even close
    But Tiverton is close and sliding towards the LDems
    Voters told the poll they’re livid about the photos, Tories getting theirs out to vote is going to be a big problem for them

    Update: Apparently it's for one of the dailies, so not out tonight

    Basically this person just signed up to the site, then claimed inside knowledge of two polls, one showing Labour to win massively in Wakefield, the other that the tories would hold Tiverton & Honiton.

    I was instantly suspicious because inside knowledge is often claimed in order to spike or spook the Spread markets. Also because I don't believe the one about Tiverton & Honiton. It doesn't fit imho.
    The T&H one is consistent with @MarqueeMark’s report from the front (although that doesn’t make it right).

    But betting real money based on an anonymous tip is… brave
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,214
    I watched the La Rochelle vs Leinster game on telly in the final of the Heineken Cup yesterday. An all action game from Marseille decided in the final minute. Probably the equivalent of the European Champions Cup in football.

    As usual, the French and Irish flags happily intermingled. I remember taking a few football fans to Sale to see them play Wasps some years ago. They were very surprised to see fans mingling and drinking together at the ground.

    As regards the football, I have a Liverpool post code, but Liverpool have gone off the boil in the last three weeks. It could be a busy season telling on them. I admit to turning it off at half-time. Sorry, Mr Eagles, but they need a summer break. I feel some sympathy for the fans but the Leinster fans will be just as disappointed.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,145
    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    From the article you link to:

    ‘In Spanish “security problems” were blamed but the English announcement was clear in pointing the finger at “the late arrival” of fans. That was clearly not the issue, though. If they were late getting into the ground, it was because of disorganisation outside. The former Liverpool CEO, Peter Moore, called it “victim blaming at its very best”.’

    The rapidity with which you and other posters started flinging the mud at Liverpool fans last night, with snide references to Hillsborough, was distasteful, to say the least, whether they booed your precious national anthem or not.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    edited May 29

    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    I heard it was trying to get in with fake tickets
    At the risk of getting called out, on R5 on Friday morning a Liverpool fan explicitly said he would try to get in without a ticket. On national radio, around 8am. I have no doubt some did try, although apparently locals did too.
    But in 2022 we should not see this. How are we not capable of managing crowds? Outer ring of steel to screen for those with tickets. Then it’s easy.
    I am coming to the conclusion that due to Covid and the hiatus in big sporting events with crowds, we’ve forgotten how to manage them. Us, at Wembley and now the french.
    https://twitter.com/MarkOgden_/status/1530630002793922561?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242
    Nigelb said:

    Zelenskiy has conceded that not all the land that Russia has seized since it annexed Crimea in 2014 can be recaptured militarily. While he is certain his country will take back the territory Russia has claimed since its 24 February invasion, he said other territory could not be recovered by force. (Guardian)

    “I do not believe that we can restore all of our territory by military means. If we decide to go that way, we will lose hundreds of thousands of people,”

    I don't think anyone really thought Crimea was a realistic prospect, especially as unless the east even it probably is pro Russian. Even recovering the east, as a long term goal, would be a tremendous result though. Long way to go for them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    Here we go again...

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/28/champions-league-final-kick-off-delay-liverpool-real-madrid-paris

    Liverpool said they were “hugely disappointed” by what had unfolded. “Supporters should not have to experience the scenes we have witnessed tonight,” the club said. “We have officially requested a formal investigation into the causes of these unacceptable issues.”

    Liverpool should ask themselves why this happens to them so often.

    Now, the organisation last night was probably shambolic, just as it was at Hillsborough. But turning up 20 minutes before kick off is asking for trouble. Get in the ground early. It’s rule number 1 when you go to a big game.

    I heard it was trying to get in with fake tickets
    At the risk of getting called out, on R5 on Friday morning a Liverpool fan explicitly said he would try to get in without a ticket. On national radio, around 8am. I have no doubt some did try, although apparently locals did too.
    But in 2022 we should not see this. How are we not capable of managing crowds? Outer ring of steel to screen for those with tickets. Then it’s easy.
    I am coming to the conclusion that due to Covid and the hiatus in big sporting events with crowds, we’ve forgotten how to manage them. Us, at Wembley and now the french.
    https://twitter.com/MarkOgden_/status/1530630002793922561?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
    Fans without tickets were jumping over the fence which looks about 10 feet tall. You'd need an army to stop them. It looks like mainly Madrid fans. The footage from the clip I posted has gone
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    CD13 said:

    I watched the La Rochelle vs Leinster game on telly in the final of the Heineken Cup yesterday. An all action game from Marseille decided in the final minute. Probably the equivalent of the European Champions Cup in football.

    As usual, the French and Irish flags happily intermingled. I remember taking a few football fans to Sale to see them play Wasps some years ago. They were very surprised to see fans mingling and drinking together at the ground.

    As regards the football, I have a Liverpool post code, but Liverpool have gone off the boil in the last three weeks. It could be a busy season telling on them. I admit to turning it off at half-time. Sorry, Mr Eagles, but they need a summer break. I feel some sympathy for the fans but the Leinster fans will be just as disappointed.

    Similar mixing in Rugby League. Usually, anyway.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 9,862
    edited May 29
    DavidL said:

    The idea of all our former PMs being good chaps is, with respect, pretty laughable. It can only be put forward by someone with a deeply vested interest in saying, "ah but Boris is different". No he's not, he's just a bit more careless, a bit more prone to speak before he thinks, a little more inclined to show that he really doesn't care what most people think.

    Blair was one of our more successful PMs. And yet we had the blatant bribery of Ecclestone where his defence was that he was a pretty straight kind of guy, the blatant lies to the HoC based on evidence made up, literally, by his consilgere which took us to war for god's sake and the repeated returns of Peter Mandelson who took indifference to what the public thought to a completely different level. I make this point abour Blair but I could make similar points about most other PMs. You need that ruthlessness, arrogance and drive to get there in the first place. The Archangel Gabriel got eliminated in the first round because he didn't cut enough deals. Ask Rory.

    The reality is that we have an elected dictatorship where the only restraint on what the PM does is the ability of the MPs of his own party to bring him down if he goes too far or is particularly blatant or, much more important, threatens their future employment. The upside is that dictatorship can be chucked out at the next election if we the people get cross but that doesn't happen very often. In this context Ministerial codes are frankly something of a joke, something to make the deluded think we have some control over this dictatorship, that the rule of law can somehow be used to bring them under control.

    So, I don't get very excited about Boris bringing the Code into line with reality just a bit. I think the idea that he is to be subject to some unelected allegedly impartial judge completely unacceptable and also ridiculous. His MPs either back him or they don't. That will be tested again when the HoC Committee comes to the astonishing conclusion that he lied through his teeth about Partygate- who knew???

    Well said, its also worth noting that while guidance has long existed, the Ministerial Code is not some well established part of our constitutional framework, it was first introduced by Tony "straight kind of guy" Blair.

    The Code isn't there to protect the public, the Code is there to protect the politicians so that when a scandal erupts people get distracted into debating the Code rather than the scandal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242
    ydoethur said:

    Ulvade shooting: Kamala Harris calls for assault weapons ban
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61621470

    Outrageous to propose gun restrictions in response to gun crime.

    Might as well ban the breathing of oxygen, both are equally necessary.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,236

    The Uighur genocide is a genocide, not a war. Words have meanings.

    Agreed.

    And as for @Cyclefree's other points, the world has a lot wrong with it and it is probably going to stay that way for some time.

    I was reflecting a few days ago on the fact that the UN "Security" Council has 5 permanent members made up of:

    One nation controlled by a warmonger
    One nation conducting a genocide
    One nation in full insular nationalism mode
    One nation tearing itself in half politically thanks to Trump
    The French

    The French are, of course, particularly egregious. Can't even get a football match started on time.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194

    Sad to say, but when Liverpool FC travel, their fans travel with a terrible history and ongoing reputation.

    It is hard to blame any organiser who requires special measures to deal with them ahead of letting them into the stadium. That is not being anti-Liverpool. Equally, it is not being anti-Liverpool to note that Real Madrid fans weren't pepper-sprayed, as they made their way to their seats. They were no problem, as Nottingham Forest fans were no problem as they went into Hillsborough in 1989.

    Organisers take the view that, for whatever reason, over-exuberant Liverpool fans getting into a ground present a particular and unique challenge. Liverpool fans need to earn a reappraisal of that approach. They did nothing to earn it yesterday.

    Is this peculiar to Liverpool fc or just English football fans in general ?

    They’re one of our worst exports.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,766

    CD13 said:

    I watched the La Rochelle vs Leinster game on telly in the final of the Heineken Cup yesterday. An all action game from Marseille decided in the final minute. Probably the equivalent of the European Champions Cup in football.

    As usual, the French and Irish flags happily intermingled. I remember taking a few football fans to Sale to see them play Wasps some years ago. They were very surprised to see fans mingling and drinking together at the ground.

    As regards the football, I have a Liverpool post code, but Liverpool have gone off the boil in the last three weeks. It could be a busy season telling on them. I admit to turning it off at half-time. Sorry, Mr Eagles, but they need a summer break. I feel some sympathy for the fans but the Leinster fans will be just as disappointed.

    Similar mixing in Rugby League. Usually, anyway.
    Yes, football is very much the exception in almost all respects. But for many football is almost all they know of sport and they therefore assume it is typical.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,347
    maxh said:

    The Uighur genocide is a genocide, not a war. Words have meanings.

    Agreed.

    And as for @Cyclefree's other points, the world has a lot wrong with it and it is probably going to stay that way for some time.

    I was reflecting a few days ago on the fact that the UN "Security" Council has 5 permanent members made up of:

    One nation controlled by a warmonger
    One nation conducting a genocide
    One nation in full insular nationalism mode
    One nation tearing itself in half politically thanks to Trump
    The French

    :
    @Beibheirli_C just to add a bit of detail to your descriptions:

    One nation controlled by a warmonger
    One nation conducting a genocide (with a freshly minted alliance with the warmonger)
    One nation in full insular nationalism mode (with demonstrable manipulation of the by the warmonger)
    One nation tearing itself in half politically thanks to Trump (who met without anyone else present with the warmonger)
    The French (who have just resisted electing a potential President with strong links to the warmonger)

    The French seem to be doing rather well, considering.
    This is just your own prejudice showing

    You could equally say:

    1. Warmonger (Russia)
    2. Ruthless dictator (China)
    3. Country that has struck out on an independent path is fulfilment of a peaceful referendum but is still fully engaged with its partners to defend western values (Uk)
    4. A sadly divided nation where both sides are at fault, but which usually does the right thing eventually (US)
    5. A nation that is willing to sell out its neighbours for their own commercial and strategic interests (France)

    Nice to see that Anglo-Saxon values remain strong
This discussion has been closed.