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Tory MPs shouldn’t bottle it this time – send the letters in – politicalbetting.com

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  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    BBC News - Partygate: Insiders tell of packed No 10 lockdown parties
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61566410

    Boris got to be in really serious danger now. People doing on the record interviews saying Boris regularly popped in for a drink at the regular WTF parties.

    It's going to need more than "with, they felt, the prime minister's implicit permission", I suspect.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    BBC News - Partygate: Insiders tell of packed No 10 lockdown parties
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61566410

    Boris got to be in really serious danger now. People doing on the record interviews saying Boris regularly popped in for a drink at the regular WTF parties.

    What's the problem, this happens in most offices

    In the Knapper's Gazette we had a small "leaving masked ball" for 3,000 people during Lockdown 1, complete with Naked Bouncy Castle and seventeen hot air balloons, topless midnight indoor netball, a free vodka bar with 200 foot high ice sculptures, a performance by Roger Waters and the Treorchy male voice choir, a special dry ski slope in the garden and a "general knowledge quiz Down Below Job fun orgy" where you got oral sex and a tot a Aldi rum if you won a round, and vice versa

    Who didn't do this? Only prudes and nay-sayers. We all had to let off steam

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,221

    I used to work for one of their competitors, on the Red team
    VOice
    DAta
    FONE.

    I was conflicted out of advising them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100

    Ken, is that you?

    Hitler really wasn't an election winner, he managed to outwit an 87 year old guy, became Chancellor, and after that....
    Hitler won a plurality, 37.3% of the vote, in the July 1932 election.

    David Cameron won 36.1% in 2010 and 36.8% in 2015.

    Just saying.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935

    The whole thing has been a perfect example of how to run a story through the media in the most damaging way.
    And yet we may well end up with Johnson staying and Starmer leaving......it is a funny old world.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824

    I don't think anyone sold it as a magical solution to all ills.

    Inflation is rising due to global conditions, not Brexit. You could argue that without the tight labour market bringing pay rises to people, that the cost of living crisis would be even worse now.
    You don't?
    It's certainly how it was bought
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,982
    Leon said:

    What's the problem, this happens in most offices

    In the Knapper's Gazette we had a small "leaving masked ball" for 3,000 people during Lockdown 1, complete with Naked Bouncy Castle and seventeen hot air balloons, topless midnight indoor netball, a free vodka bar with 200 foot high ice sculptures, a performance by Roger Waters and the Treorchy male voice choir, a special dry ski slope in the garden and a "general knowledge quiz Down Below Job fun orgy" where you got oral sex and a tot a Aldi rum if you won a round, and vice versa

    Who didn't do this? Only prudes and nay-sayers. We all had to let off steam

    BTW leon did you see my post on previous thread about Dalle2 being so last month....google brain just surpassed it.
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    That’s an interesting, if radical idea.
    Problem is that the generators and the retailers are not one and the same, so I doubt it would work as easily as you suggest.
    And the ability of this government to manage the consequences ….

    Don’t be daft.
    Its also completely false.

    In France the price is a lot less variable due to the fact that they are getting their energy from uranium instead of gas.

    So in the past when gas was cheaper than nuclear EDF consumers were paying less in the UK than EDF consumers in France were.

    Now that the price of gas has surged, while the price of nuclear is much more fixed, the situation has reversed.

    Having state ran industries doesn't make things better. Investing in nuclear energy does make energy less variable but not necessarily cheaper.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288

    BBC News - Partygate: Insiders tell of packed No 10 lockdown parties
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61566410

    Boris got to be in really serious danger now. People doing on the record interviews saying Boris regularly popped in for a drink at the regular WTF parties.

    That’s what happens when you let peons take the hit which you yourself deserve - they talk.
  • VOice
    DAta
    FONE.

    I was conflicted out of advising them.
    They were an absolute shambles internally, I don't know what it's like nowadays. Very much stuck in the late 90s.

    I'm led to believe BT is now very well run, Openreach especially - one of the better decisions to have been to hive them off and have them focus on FTTP.

    They've just installed FTTP here (can't order it yet). They had it all done in under a month, very impressive.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited May 2022

    Ken, is that you?

    Hitler really wasn't an election winner, he managed to outwit an 87 year old guy, became Chancellor, and after that....
    German election July 1932 Nazis 230 seats, SPD 133, KPD 89, Centre 79, DNVP Conservatives 37. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_1932_German_federal_election

    German election March 1933 Nazis 288, SPD 120, KPD 81, Centre 72, DNVP Conservatives 52
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    The whole thing has been a perfect example of how to run a story through the media in the most damaging way.
    The timing of the leaks, put alongside the ominous economic data and gas price cap hike news, is also interesting.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    BTW leon did you see my post on previous thread about Dalle2 being so last month....google brain just surpassed it.
    It did? Feck. It's so hard to keep up!

    Despite everything that has happened in the last few years, this might end up as the biggest story of all. The arrival of proper AI

    Anyway ta, I shall go and check it now
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Leon said:

    What's the problem, this happens in most offices

    You're such a wind-up.

    We were in lockdown you muppet.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100

    You're going to be pretty miffed if you get fined for an event where the organiser didn't.

    The other thing is whilst a FPN isn't a criminal record, it will be need to be declared on a future government focused/based jobs.

    There's going to be a lot of pissed off people.
    'I got a Partygate FPN' could become a badge of honour by the time of the 2032 Johnson administration.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,982
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    It did? Feck. It's so hard to keep up!

    Despite everything that has happened in the last few years, this might end up as the biggest story of all. The arrival of proper AI

    Anyway ta, I shall go and check it now
    A thread.....

    https://twitter.com/ak92501/status/1528851863306752000?t=T2vISFi1O_6MrxYU6m9tKQ&s=19

    I also notice a new filter in dev version of photoshop has a text-to-image ability.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,422
    https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1529059650838093824

    Scott Bryan
    @scottygb
    For a few moments this morning the BBC News ticker said the words “Manchester United are rubbish.”
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    HYUFD said:

    German election July 1932 Nazis 230 seats, SPD 133, KPD 89, Centre 79, DNVP Conservatives 37. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_1932_German_federal_election

    German election March 1933 Nazis 288, SPD 120, KPD 81, Centre 72, DNVP Conservatives 52
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election
    That latter 'election' was neither free nor fair though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    Took a little Day 1 trip on the central section of the Elizabeth Line in my lunch hour. Wow. Really incredible. It even smells new. Next time I will take the crazy funicular style lift at Liverpool Street.
    With interchanges at Farringdon and Whitechapel both providing access to our patch of SE London, this will be our new way of getting to the West End. It was worth the wait.

    And I'm right now on the Eurostar. 1st foray to abroads for a decade. Tremendously exciting!
  • HYUFD said:

    German election July 1932 Nazis 230 seats, SPD 133, KPD 89, Centre 79, DNVP Conservatives 37. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_1932_German_federal_election

    German election March 1933 Nazis 288, SPD 120, KPD 81, Centre 72, DNVP Conservatives 52
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election
    Wow are you defending the Nazis now?

    The 1933 election was after a reign of terror including the Reichstag fire and still the Nazis failed to get a majority. They were not a free and fair election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,221
    edited May 2022

    They were an absolute shambles internally, I don't know what it's like nowadays. Very much stuck in the late 90s.

    I'm led to believe BT is now very well run, Openreach especially - one of the better decisions to have been to hive them off and have them focus on FTTP.

    They've just installed FTTP here (can't order it yet). They had it all done in under a month, very impressive.
    My friend works for BT, fairly high up, says it is very well run, especially now they have decided on a strategy, after six years of umming and ahhing.

    EE - To be the front facing brand for mobiles and pretty much all retail customers.

    BT - Businesses and legacy landline customers

    Plusnet - For cheapskates.

    Best thing they've done is the all UK call centres, and the fact they own the best/most spectrum.

    FWIW - I also expect the Vodafone UK and Three UK merger* to go ahead in the 18 months.

    *Might be a takeover or something else.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    tlg86 said:

    https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1529059650838093824

    Scott Bryan
    @scottygb
    For a few moments this morning the BBC News ticker said the words “Manchester United are rubbish.”

    Nice of them to have something accurate on the ticker, for a change.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,538
    Leon said:

    What's the problem, this happens in most offices

    In the Knapper's Gazette we had a small "leaving masked ball" for 3,000 people during Lockdown 1, complete with Naked Bouncy Castle and seventeen hot air balloons, topless midnight indoor netball, a free vodka bar with 200 foot high ice sculptures, a performance by Roger Waters and the Treorchy male voice choir, a special dry ski slope in the garden and a "general knowledge quiz Down Below Job fun orgy" where you got oral sex and a tot a Aldi rum if you won a round, and vice versa

    Who didn't do this? Only prudes and nay-sayers. We all had to let off steam

    "How different, how very different from the home life of our own dear Queen."
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100

    Wow are you defending the Nazis now?

    The 1933 election was after a reign of terror including the Reichstag fire and still the Nazis failed to get a majority. They were not a free and fair election.
    Whilst your second point is entirely correct, I don't see how you can interpret @HYUFD's post as "Defending the Nazis" ?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Scott_xP said:

    Bollocks

    A we have seen, Brexiteers are obsessed by the vote.

    Others are more interested in the outcome, the ongoing and ever deepening shitshow that Brexit has become.

    Instead of addressing the issues, Brexiteers can only whine "but we won....."
    This is @Leon all over. A man so conflicted that he was a Remainer right up to the ballot box and is now so full of bile towards anyone of his former constituency that he has become a swivel-eyed loon on the subject.

    As they say, there's no one so zealous as a convert. But in Leon's case I doubt the sincerity. I think it's all faux outrage because he doesn't really know what he thinks and that frightens him.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,269
    kinabalu said:

    And I'm right now on the Eurostar. 1st foray to abroads for a decade. Tremendously exciting!
    Lucky you! We took it last month en route to the Black Forest. Trains are the best.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968

    And I'm fully expecting some loyalists (not naming names) to try to justify them too.

    The sooner Boris is out of office, the better.
    But is all this what TSE calls good old fashioned 60s/70s Labour government policies because Boris and his ministers believes in it, believes the country needs high tax high spend - or because of absence of direction and values and ideas in this government? Lady Thatcher and her governments believed in stuff, they had very clear ideas and plans going forward. I disagree with what TSE implies, I don’t think it’s clear Boris believes in the socialism of his government, he just doesn’t believe or understand enough in what the Conservative Party has always stood for. From that point of view he’s never been a fit leader, to beat Corbyn in a one off and then crash, political boom and bust, is not the measurement, you need to have enduring values as foundation to keep on winning.
  • Whilst your second point is entirely correct, I don't see how you can interpret @HYUFD's post as "Defending the Nazis" ?
    He responded to TSE (rightly) saying they weren't election winners by posting without comment "election results" [one of which is infamously neither free nor fair] that seemed to imply they were.

    TSE was right, the National Socialist Party never won or came to power following a free and fair election. They came to power after violence and then used violence to gain more and cement their power.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100

    A thread.....

    https://twitter.com/ak92501/status/1528851863306752000?t=T2vISFi1O_6MrxYU6m9tKQ&s=19

    I also notice a new filter in dev version of photoshop has a text-to-image ability.
    Er... that's been standard in Apple Photos for yonks. Snap a document on my iPhone, save as text.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,714

    You're going to be pretty miffed if you get fined for an event where the organiser didn't.

    The other thing is whilst a FPN isn't a criminal record, it will be need to be declared on a future government focused/based jobs.

    There's going to be a lot of pissed off people.
    Yes, WATO was pretty damning for BJ today, to be amplified on Panorama tonight. Junior staffers full of indignation that they've been fined and/or lost their jobs, while the Supreme Leader has got away with it - again. Who can blame them?

    And the whole thing is fronted by Laura K, who it would be hard to label as a Commie seeking to bring down the government.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    Leon said:

    Grieve is an odious snob. He doesn't even try to hide it
    I don't particularly disagree but that would not mark him out from a couple of hundred of other parliamentarians.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608

    So what you're suggesting Scott is that Sue Gray may be engaging in politics rather than sticking with the original report? So we should discount whatever she comes out with as politically motivated?

    I'm surprised to see you saying that Scott rather than someone else.
    She was trying to save Johnson's blushes, but then it would appear he put political pressure onto her, so she though **** you matey boy! So it is warts and all now!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Er... that's been standard in Apple Photos for yonks. Snap a document on my iPhone, save as text.
    That’s image-to-text, not text-to-image. The latter uses your text, to create an artwork.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,982
    edited May 2022

    Er... that's been standard in Apple Photos for yonks. Snap a document on my iPhone, save as text.
    Erhhhh....i don't think you are quite understanding the tech. You are talking about just image categorisation and OCR, this is text to novel image generation. When it comes to AI, Apple are miles behind.and just lost one of their top brains which isn't going to help.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    .

    Its also completely false.

    In France the price is a lot less variable due to the fact that they are getting their energy from uranium instead of gas.

    So in the past when gas was cheaper than nuclear EDF consumers were paying less in the UK than EDF consumers in France were.

    Now that the price of gas has surged, while the price of nuclear is much more fixed, the situation has reversed.

    Having state ran industries doesn't make things better. Investing in nuclear energy does make energy less variable but not necessarily cheaper.
    No, it’s not completely false (though some of the detail is much confused), but the retail side would be of little use to the government, while going for the useful generators would be pretty well nationalisation by confiscation.

    It would also poison the UK as a place for foreign investment for decades.

    By comparison, windfall taxes have no discernible downside at all.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    Cynically honest, but entirely truthful.

    A Conservative solution might have been to cut taxes, so that people would have more of their take home pay to spend on the rising bills. Instead Rishi and Boris chose to tax and spend, raising taxes even further and using Gordon Brown's preferred tax to do so.

    They didn't cause the inflation, but they are making matters worse for working people by raising taxes in order to featherbed the inheritances of those who aren't working for it.
    They maxed out the credit card but didn't fix the roof while the sun was shining and so Labour are going to have to clear up the mess. As per.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    edited May 2022

    Interesting

    BREAKING: Tory Tom Tugendhat has told @MattChorley on @TimesRadio that he is "talking to colleagues" about the Prime Minister's position today.

    Adds that this is a "time for all of us to look at what this country needs" and we should be "pretty ruthless in our views."

    I certainly think that Tory MPs need a vote on Boris. That is what the Brady letters are for - to ask the Parliamentary Party whether they have confidence in the Prime Minister to continue in post.

    If they say they do, then they have to make the best of a very bad job going into the election with him.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,855
    edited May 2022

    Er... that's been standard in Apple Photos for yonks. Snap a document on my iPhone, save as text.
    Text to image, not image to text.

    How long before the full technology (with images of people) escapes into the wild, so to speak?

    It really is nuclear grade stuff.

  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    tlg86 said:

    https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1529059650838093824

    Scott Bryan
    @scottygb
    For a few moments this morning the BBC News ticker said the words “Manchester United are rubbish.”

    Well, they're not wrong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    A thread.....

    https://twitter.com/ak92501/status/1528851863306752000?t=T2vISFi1O_6MrxYU6m9tKQ&s=19

    I also notice a new filter in dev version of photoshop has a text-to-image ability.
    Super interesting. I'm not sure Google Brain - imagen - is obvs better than Dalle-2 tho. They seem to have different strengths (looking at that thread). Imagen is better with written words, and obeying instructions, Dalle-2 feels a little more imaginative

    Both are, of course, astonishing, and probably revolutionary

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100

    He responded to TSE (rightly) saying they weren't election winners by posting without comment "election results" [one of which is infamously neither free nor fair] that seemed to imply they were.

    TSE was right, the National Socialist Party never won or came to power following a free and fair election. They came to power after violence and then used violence to gain more and cement their power.
    There was a background of violence surrounding the July 1932 election, not just from the Nazis, but it's wrong to ignore the fact that 37% of German votes went to the Nazis. The German electorate 'chose' the Nazis every bit as much as the 2010 and 2015 UK electorate chose the Tories.

    That is not to defend the Nazis, who were imo pretty much unparalleled in evil, far from it - but it should be a warning from history that populist extremists can game the democratic process.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608
    Leon said:

    What's the problem, this happens in most offices

    In the Knapper's Gazette we had a small "leaving masked ball" for 3,000 people during Lockdown 1, complete with Naked Bouncy Castle and seventeen hot air balloons, topless midnight indoor netball, a free vodka bar with 200 foot high ice sculptures, a performance by Roger Waters and the Treorchy male voice choir, a special dry ski slope in the garden and a "general knowledge quiz Down Below Job fun orgy" where you got oral sex and a tot a Aldi rum if you won a round, and vice versa

    Who didn't do this? Only prudes and nay-sayers. We all had to let off steam

    Do you write for Viz?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100

    Text to image, not image to text.

    How long before the full technology (with images of people) escapes into the wild, so to speak?

    It really is nuclear grade stuff.

    Lol! Sorry, (and apols to @FrancisUrquhart) my bad.

    Need to sharpen up my brain's 'text to meaning' ability!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,138
    This sounds like a "Tell me what I want to hear" approach to legal advice. The case against Braverman is that she subordinates law to her politics—here's another piece of evidence. https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1529078540561485824
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    tlg86 said:

    https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1529059650838093824

    Scott Bryan
    @scottygb
    For a few moments this morning the BBC News ticker said the words “Manchester United are rubbish.”

    Good job they didn't attribute the quote. Or ten Hag might have some explaining to do.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    'I got a Partygate FPN' could become a badge of honour by the time of the 2032 Johnson administration.
    Yep. Only girly swots didn't get one.

    Although poor Rishi did. Case of good boy running with the wrong crowd.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    Options are:

    1. That state can subsidise it and provide short term relief to those who need it.
    2. Lots of excess deaths over the winter through lack of heating and food combined with a crime epidemic and boom for loan sharks.

    We will end up with mostly 1, although the government will only get there in small steps rather than seeing it is blatantly obviously going to happen so they may as well be ahead of the curve for once.

    It is not a time for ideology but pragmatism.
    From this government? They will let people die. And blame the dead for not having stuffed newspaper in-between layers of their clothes. Then sneer some more. And the people who have suffered but not died will still be told to vote Tory because Starmer is woke.
  • There was a background of violence surrounding the July 1932 election, not just from the Nazis, but it's wrong to ignore the fact that 37% of German votes went to the Nazis. The German electorate 'chose' the Nazis every bit as much as the 2010 and 2015 UK electorate chose the Tories.

    That is not to defend the Nazis, who were imo pretty much unparalleled in evil, far from it - but it should be a warning from history that populist extremists can game the democratic process.
    As you say there was a background of violence surround the July 1932 election, but they didn't come to power after that. Indeed there was a further election in November 1932 where the Nazis lost votes and still didn't come to power.

    They only got into office in 1933, on the back of even more violence not election results.

    Yes democracy can be warped, but what happened in 1930s Germany was violence not democracy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    He responded to TSE (rightly) saying they weren't election winners by posting without comment "election results" [one of which is infamously neither free nor fair] that seemed to imply they were.

    TSE was right, the National Socialist Party never won or came to power following a free and fair election. They came to power after violence and then used violence to gain more and cement their power.
    In 1933 maybe, in July 1932 however the Nazis certainly won most seats and votes amidst the backdrop of the Great Depression without the violence the SS and brownshirts deployed in 1933 to ensure they won a majority with the DNVP
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    Amid foreign chatter about Ukraine making a peace deal or concessions to end Russia’s war against it, this new survey by Kyiv International Institute of Sociology: 82% of Ukrainians say NO territorial concessions should be made; just 10% back some.
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1529056147679981570
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    WTAF

    The Wuhan Institute of Virology was ALSO doing gain-of-function research into…. Monkeypox

    The scriptwriters of 2022 are somehow managing to outdo the writers of “2021” and “2020”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/did-monkeypox-leak-from-wuhan-

    So far there is no smoking gun and it seems unlikely it came from Wuhan. But still. WTAF
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322

    Lucky you! We took it last month en route to the Black Forest. Trains are the best.
    Yep I agree. We are doing Lisbon to Algarve by train in a few weeks and we toured Italy by train twice a few years ago.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Hmmm. Graun feed on HMG and the law(s) of the land:

    'Government lawyers have been told to be less risk averse in their advice for ministers, the [No,. 10] spokesperson revealed. This was another item that came up at cabinet today.

    The spokesperson said: "The attorney general [Suella Braverman] updated cabinet on a review of the government legal department. She said overall performance was high, however there were incidences where advice was too risk averse or took a computer says no approach to dealing with challenging policy areas. Following the review the government legal department has received revised guidance to ensure they are more attuned to the government’s desire to tackle difficult and longstanding issues."

    The spokesperson said Braverman did not give details of over-cautious legal advice, but she did say departments were getting legal advice that was “more risk averse than was needed and didn’t reflect the sort of risk appetite that ministers had”. Braverman may have been thinking in particular of legal advice relating to Brexit. The head of the government legal department resigned in 2020 when the government introduced legislation that would ignore parts of the Northern Ireland protocol, contrary to international law. Those clauses were later dropped from the internal market bill but the government has recently revived its threat to abandon parts of the protocol. Braverman told No 10 that this would be legal, but other lawyers take a different view.'
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    Leon said:

    What's the problem, this happens in most offices

    In the Knapper's Gazette we had a small "leaving masked ball" for 3,000 people during Lockdown 1, complete with Naked Bouncy Castle and seventeen hot air balloons, topless midnight indoor netball, a free vodka bar with 200 foot high ice sculptures, a performance by Roger Waters and the Treorchy male voice choir, a special dry ski slope in the garden and a "general knowledge quiz Down Below Job fun orgy" where you got oral sex and a tot a Aldi rum if you won a round, and vice versa

    Who didn't do this? Only prudes and nay-sayers. We all had to let off steam

    A dry slope? No snow dome? Wouldn't bother turning up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    Nigelb said:

    .

    No, it’s not completely false (though some of the detail is much confused), but the retail side would be of little use to the government, while going for the useful generators would be pretty well nationalisation by confiscation.

    It would also poison the UK as a place for foreign investment for decades.

    By comparison, windfall taxes have no discernible downside at all.
    The whole neocon idea that we need to have a retail market for what is essentially the monopoly* of electricity distribution has run into the sand. It was only ever a means of adding inefficiencies (cost of switching, call-centres etc.) and syphoning off profits for the rich. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

    (*Last time I checked there was only one supply coming into my house.)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    kjh said:

    A dry slope? No snow dome? Wouldn't bother turning up.
    He means no drinking on the ski slope.
  • kinabalu said:

    They maxed out the credit card but didn't fix the roof while the sun was shining and so Labour are going to have to clear up the mess. As per.
    Nice trolling attempt but of course Osborne did fix the roof, also Hammond whom I didn't like for other reasons also continued Osborne's repairs and for that he deserves credit.

    In the final pre-pandemic year of 2019 we had the deficit coming down yet to the the best fiscal position of the UK had seen 2002. This is nothing like Brown turning on the spending taps like a reckless hooligan maxing out the credit card by 2007.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    But is all this what TSE calls good old fashioned 60s/70s Labour government policies because Boris and his ministers believes in it, believes the country needs high tax high spend - or because of absence of direction and values and ideas in this government? Lady Thatcher and her governments believed in stuff, they had very clear ideas and plans going forward. I disagree with what TSE implies, I don’t think it’s clear Boris believes in the socialism of his government, he just doesn’t believe or understand enough in what the Conservative Party has always stood for. From that point of view he’s never been a fit leader, to beat Corbyn in a one off and then crash, political boom and bust, is not the measurement, you need to have enduring values as foundation to keep on winning.
    Boris is basically a Brexity Heseltine as he said himself. This government is essentially New Labour plus Brexit, it is not Thatcherite no but neither is it socialist
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100

    As you say there was a background of violence surround the July 1932 election, but they didn't come to power after that. Indeed there was a further election in November 1932 where the Nazis lost votes and still didn't come to power.

    They only got into office in 1933, on the back of even more violence not election results.

    Yes democracy can be warped, but what happened in 1930s Germany was violence not democracy.
    Fair point. They'd have been in office in July 1932 had Germany had FPTP though.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,800
    edited May 2022
    Good afternoon

    I have been busy today but just managed to read the BBC Panorama report and I have this response

    For goodness sake Boris, just go

    I have also text my mp saying Boris must go
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    kinabalu said:

    Yep. Only girly swots didn't get one.

    Although poor Rishi did. Case of good boy running with the wrong crowd.
    Just think if TM has still been Home Secretary under PM Johnson, she could have added FPN to the list of naughty things she has done!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited May 2022

    Fair point. They'd have been in office in July 1932 had Germany had FPTP though.
    Indeed and TSE said Hitler was never an election winner which was wrong, not Hitler never formed a valid elected government which would likely have been true under the PR system Germany had and still has
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    kjh said:

    Yep I agree. We are doing Lisbon to Algarve by train in a few weeks and we toured Italy by train twice a few years ago.
    I didn’t know you could go to faro by train from Lisbon. Interesting. Should be fun

    Europe’s forgotten railway branch lines are a wonder. We have a fair few in the UK
  • The whole neocon idea that we need to have a retail market for what is essentially the monopoly* of electricity distribution has run into the sand. It was only ever a means of adding inefficiencies (cost of switching, call-centres etc.) and syphoning off profits for the rich. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

    (*Last time I checked there was only one supply coming into my house.)
    While the National Grid plc may be an effective monopoly company, it seems to do a fairly good job at its remit.

    However the energy firms are not a monopoly. The fact that you can, if you so choose, select a tariff that gets its energy from renewable sources for instance and the firm you switch to is required to honour your choices is part of the market working as intended.

    United Utilities [and other regional providers] is a better example of an effective monopoly than the energy firms.

    Even pre-privatisation there was a difference in role between what the National Grid does and what pre-privatised firms like MANWEB did.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,079

    I certainly think that Tory MPs need a vote on Boris. That is what the Brady letters are for - to ask the Parliamentary Party whether they have confidence in the Prime Minister to continue in post.

    If they say they do, then they have to make the best of a very bad job going into the election with him.
    This ought to be Game Over.

    But we've said that before, so many times...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608
    HYUFD said:

    Boris is basically a Brexity Heseltine as he said himself. This government is essentially New Labour plus Brexit, it is not Thatcherite no but neither is it socialist
    Meanwhile, back on planet earth...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,216
    Leon said:

    Anyone who was going to get all hot and bothered by this is already super-hot and extremely bothered, this won’t suddenly tip over into ultra-galactic white-hot hotness and mega-cosmic botheredness from the constellation Bothered, You Bet. Anyone who was going to switch votes or opinions on the basis of this, has already done so

    The ones left frothing, as @DavidL suggests, are Boris-haters, and they are generally embittered Remoaners. They want their revenge; I doubt this will provide it

    Eh? I voted LEAVE and I think Boris is a c***!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,119
    DavidL said:

    It is interesting that the Ukraine government is now describing the battle being waged in the Donbass as the largest in Europe since WW2. There are a number of indications that the intensity of the fighting has reached a new level with high casualties on both sides but the story is drifting down the news agenda here because of the lack of pictures from the front. Presumably our media, entirely understandably, consider the risks to their staff just too high to take.

    Its hard to imagine either side can keep this up for long. The winner is a lot more uncertain than some of the Ukranian propaganda would have us believe.

    Neil Hauer is one of the few Western journalists near the front line. From his latest reports it looks like the Ukrainians will struggle to prevent the encirclement of Severodonetsk and Lysyschansk - the last remaining territory in Luhansk Oblast held by Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1529045741519486978

    Still, this encirclement is a lot smaller than the one they seemed to be assuming for initially when they took Izium.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608

    Who or what made Scunthorpe a sh*thole, if that's what it is?
    Ah Scunthorpe. My favourite EVER graffiti joke. If Typhoo put the T in Britain etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    .

    This ought to be Game Over.

    But we've said that before, so many times...
    How someone like Zahawi, sent out to lie for the Barnacle, only for No.10 to admit the lie a couple of hours later, can continue to support the liar after the latest revelations, is a matter of wonder.

    Those in his position have about 24 hours to salvage their reputations. Otherwise they go down with him.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031

    Neil Hauer is one of the few Western journalists near the front line. From his latest reports it looks like the Ukrainians will struggle to prevent the encirclement of Severodonetsk and Lysyschansk - the last remaining territory in Luhansk Oblast held by Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1529045741519486978

    Still, this encirclement is a lot smaller than the one they seemed to be assuming for initially when they took Izium.
    The Russians seem to be expending a lot of effort in stopping the gifted Ukrainian kit reaching the front. Their propaganda is all about their successes in this regard.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    WTF = wine time Fridays, but also thje other meaning if you haven't seen this ...

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1529072707299684353
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    To add, they have a majority of 80. Kicking Boris out doesn’t precipitate a crisis; government carries on.

    If none of them have the self respect to think they can do a better job than the liar, then they might as well give up now.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Ah Scunthorpe. My favourite EVER graffiti joke. If Typhoo put the T in Britain etc.
    A friend used to work there. He was very glad he got a new job elsewhere before email and the first crude net nannies. Vide also Penistone (a real pain to spell out over the phone ...).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    Nigelb said:

    Amid foreign chatter about Ukraine making a peace deal or concessions to end Russia’s war against it, this new survey by Kyiv International Institute of Sociology: 82% of Ukrainians say NO territorial concessions should be made; just 10% back some.
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1529056147679981570

    This was also interesting.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1529088113326313474
    Ukrainians are split on ditching NATO aspirations, poll by KMIS finds
    🔹42% say it's possible for Ukraine to receive security guarantees from separate countries, without NATO membership
    🔹39% say only NATO can give 🇺🇦 security
    🔹19% don't know
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288

    Good afternoon

    I have been busy today but just managed to read the BBC Panorama report and I have this response

    For goodness sake Boris, just go

    I have also text my mp saying Boris must go

    He’s not going unless prised out of No.10 with a limpet removal tool.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,422
    NEW THREAD
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,402
    Leon said:

    I didn’t know you could go to faro by train from Lisbon. Interesting. Should be fun

    Europe’s forgotten railway branch lines are a wonder. We have a fair few in the UK
    Only Tunes to Faro is on the branch line. The rest is main lines. Ordinary trains are 3h30 Lisbon to Faro, but the Alfa Pendular tilting train does it in 3h00. It starts at Porto, so you can in fact do Porto to Faro without changing. And it’s dirt cheap.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,153
    edited May 2022

    Fair point. They'd have been in office in July 1932 had Germany had FPTP though.
    Potentially, although as always we need to be wary too much about comparing results across electoral systems, since people vote and act differently under different systems.

    Potentially if Germany had FPTP they would have avoided the paralysed indecision in the Reichstag that provided the fertile ground for the rise of the NSDAP.

    The election which is generally regarded as the "last genuinely democratic election of the Weimar Republic" was in 1928 and in that the Nazis won just 12 seats. If under FPTP the SPD had been able to win a majority at that election then the course of history could have been completely different, but this is pure speculation at this point.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    I wonder who is leaking this stuff.

    It went oddly quiet for a few weeks and now it has appeared again.

    This must be planned, I see no other explanation.

    As soon as the junior civil servants were made sacrificial lambs they decided enough was enough .
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,267
    edited May 2022

    I certainly think that Tory MPs need a vote on Boris. That is what the Brady letters are for - to ask the Parliamentary Party whether they have confidence in the Prime Minister to continue in post.

    If they say they do, then they have to make the best of a very bad job going into the election with him.
    Not enough Brady letter though are there. Just the other day Charles Walker back-tracked from his view that Johnson should go. How many MPs who previously sent letters in subsequently withdrew them? It is difficult for them to write another don't you think?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    Carnyx said:

    A friend used to work there. He was very glad he got a new job elsewhere before email and the first crude net nannies. Vide also Penistone (a real pain to spell out over the phone ...).
    I had forgotten all the censorship you used to get when sending and receiving emails. One of my customers years ago was a manufacturer of plumbing stuff and he used to tell the problems they used to get with ballcock.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,269
    HYUFD said:

    Boris is basically a Brexity Heseltine as he said himself. This government is essentially New Labour plus Brexit, it is not Thatcherite no but neither is it socialist
    It's socialism for the old and a Thatcherite dystopia - but now thanks to Brexit with no means of escape - for anyone under 40.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    Good afternoon

    I have been busy today but just managed to read the BBC Panorama report and I have this response

    For goodness sake Boris, just go

    I have also text my mp saying Boris must go

    Have you done 54 texts now?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    Leon said:

    I didn’t know you could go to faro by train from Lisbon. Interesting. Should be fun

    Europe’s forgotten railway branch lines are a wonder. We have a fair few in the UK
    I hope you can as otherwise I am stuffed. No you can. 3 and a half hours, 22.15 Euros, every couple of hours.

    We are then taking the coastal train to Estomber-Lagoa, 5.75 Euros

    Amazing value. Italy was the same, very cheap.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,800
    kinabalu said:

    Have you done 54 texts now?
    Actually my mp is a personal friend of near 40 years and he only needs one text, though I did text him previously saying Boris should go
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,216

    Took a little Day 1 trip on the central section of the Elizabeth Line in my lunch hour. Wow. Really incredible. It even smells new. Next time I will take the crazy funicular style lift at Liverpool Street.
    With interchanges at Farringdon and Whitechapel both providing access to our patch of SE London, this will be our new way of getting to the West End. It was worth the wait.

    Took a little Day 1 trip on the central section of the Elizabeth Line in my lunch hour. Wow. Really incredible. It even smells new. Next time I will take the crazy funicular style lift at Liverpool Street.
    With interchanges at Farringdon and Whitechapel both providing access to our patch of SE London, this will be our new way of getting to the West End. It was worth the wait.

    No spoliers!!!

    I'm making a shellfish strategic decision to delay my trip until tomorrow!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    Nice trolling attempt but of course Osborne did fix the roof, also Hammond whom I didn't like for other reasons also continued Osborne's repairs and for that he deserves credit.

    In the final pre-pandemic year of 2019 we had the deficit coming down yet to the the best fiscal position of the UK had seen 2002. This is nothing like Brown turning on the spending taps like a reckless hooligan maxing out the credit card by 2007.
    La di da. Talk to the hand basically.

    Next thing it'll be "It started in Wuhan" or "It's a GLOBAL Crisis".
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,203

    It's socialism for the old and a Thatcherite dystopia - but now thanks to Brexit with no means of escape - for anyone under 40.
    Even as a figure of speech it's ridiculous to say that there is "no means of escape" because of Brexit. Do you think every country in the world outside the EU is like East Germany?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,644

    That's not my problem. Or that of the opposition parties.

    Incumbency can be a bit of a b******!
    Well, no, but it would be nice if somebody would come up with a solution other than 'the government must do something'. @RochdalePioneers , @Nigelb and @noneoftheabove have all put forward potential ideas. I don't know how workable any of them are but at least they are all something - grateful to all for the thoughts.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,355
    Leon said:

    WTAF

    The Wuhan Institute of Virology was ALSO doing gain-of-function research into…. Monkeypox

    The scriptwriters of 2022 are somehow managing to outdo the writers of “2021” and “2020”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/did-monkeypox-leak-from-wuhan-

    So far there is no smoking gun and it seems unlikely it came from Wuhan. But still. WTAF

    I think we need to take off and nuke the Wuhan institue from orbit - its the only way to be sure.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,497
    Cookie said:

    That's a function of the way you pay for driving.

    You pay a huge upfront cost to have a car, and several large costs each year to continue to own one - but once you do that, the costs per mile are pretty low. Whereas the costs to you personally of having public transport available are very low, but the costs per mile of making a journey are high.

    If this is seen as a problem there are solutions, but they require more of a remodelling of behaviours than most people are prepared to make. (Our family wouldn't need to own two cars - what a waste of assets! - if we could be reasonably sure one would be available to use when we wanted. The cost per mile could be high, but the overall cost of motoring would still be lower - but the motivation to use non-car modes when we could, like, for 800m trips to One Stop to buy milk, would be there. We'd be better off, public transport would be more viable and therefore more plentiful and therefore more attractive, the planet would be cleaner. But we'd have to stop using the boot of the car as a shed for things-without-permanent-homes.)
    A couple of decades ago I worked on a project for the DfT. I developed the road routing portion of their transport portal. The basic idea being you would put in origin and destination and it would give you a route for road, rail and bus to get there. The idea being when people used it and saw how much cheaper and convenient public transport was that they would get out of their cars.

    They ended up loading all sorts of costs such as cost of car, wear and tear, insurance onto the road costing. As I remember cost of car was calculated for example as average price paid for a new car/ average number of miles expected in a cars lifetime.

    85% of the time it was still cheaper and quicker to go by car than public transport. This number rapidly increasing as you added car occupants. As I remember we calculated put car passengers to 2 and it was literally 5% of journeys that were cheaper by public transport still.
This discussion has been closed.