Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

It is hard to see Starmer emulating Heath’s GE1970 performance – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.

    You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
    If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.

    If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    Well, the Unionist Party ion Scotland got renamed. Though I see both Tory and Labour are having, erm, difficulties about picking Orangist local councillors.
    The 1965 debacle was not a rebranding. It was a full-scale capitulation and takeover by the English Conservative Party.

    Bought, and sold.

    But they’re still rotten wee sectarian bigots at heart. “Proper” English Tories are delightful in comparison.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    edited April 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    You bin to Nemrut Dağ btw? Just round the corner and bloody sensational

    Went there about this time of year, couldn't see a sign of a 9 metre high head of Zeus till we realised that a thing like a stone manhole cover on which we were standing, was the very top of his head, because snow. Same but different.
    I am right now dallying between doing the 2nd half of my trip at Nemrut Dag, Cappadoccia, and some flesh pot on the coast

    TBH I tempted by the coast. Archaeologically, nothing can match what I saw today. So maybe some nice seafood and Mediterranean spring sun is in order…
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    IshmaelZ said:

    If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.

    If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
    You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.

    I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.

    You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
    A Francoist. But polite. So that’s ok.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,274
    IshmaelZ said:

    If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.

    If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
    I don’t think one can call ANYONE a Fascist ‘in a spirit of harmless fun’!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    HYUFD said:

    You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.

    You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
    How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.

    The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I don’t think one can call ANYONE a Fascist ‘in a spirit of harmless fun’!
    That was sort of my point, that I don't think you can propose to invade Scotland in a spirit of harmless fun either
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968
    Leon said:

    One example. Of the scale of what they are finding in Tepe-land

    The photo looks anonymous, meaningless





    But it’s not. Chief archaeologist Nemri Kalul is casually pointing to that stone to say

    “That is almost certainly the top of another five metre high megalith, buried beneath. We know the signs now. There are thousands everywhere. It could be an entire new temple complex. We just don’t have time to dig them all up”

    That’s the scale of what they are uncovering. He reckons, for example, they have uncovered just 1% of what is buried at Karahan Tepe. At Gobekli Tepe it is still only about 10%. And there they have been slowed by the millions of visitors

    When’s the ring road coming through it?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    They were Saxe-Coburg and Gotha because Albert the Prince Consort was, Victoria was a Hanover. It seems odd that Victoria transmits everything else but not her surname, and also by the same principle Chas n baldy n Andy are surely Mountbattens and not Windsors.
    They look an awful lot like that old footman…

    His name was Bloggs or Crapper or somesuch wasn’t it?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,929
    I was surprised that Nicola, usually pretty sure-footed, put the blame for the ferry contract on the unlamented Derek Mackay. It just sounded too convenient, and perhaps they thought he'd keep his head down. Could come back to haunt her. For once, the media has got on to something.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/derek-mackay-set-record-straight-calmac-ferries-inquiry-2k5q86xn0

    "Derek Mackay, the former SNP minister blamed by Nicola Sturgeon for the CalMac ferries fiasco, has said he intends to appear before the Scottish parliament to set the record straight.

    "Speaking publicly for the first time since he left the Scottish government two years ago, he told The Sunday Times he intends to co-operate fully with a parliamentary inquiry, drawing on key government documents."
  • HYUFD said:

    You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.

    I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it

    You are breathtakingly embarrasing

    I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968
    Isn’t the imminent demise of Imran Khan quite a bad thing, as he bridged the domestic gap quite well, and it is going to go back to a messy gap again?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    HYUFD said:

    You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.

    I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
    So you are backing down on the tanks and army now?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited April 2022
    kjh said:

    How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.

    The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
    Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.

    If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    They look an awful lot like that old footman…

    His name was Bloggs or Crapper or somesuch wasn’t it?
    Porchester
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,274
    I am looking forward to being canvassed by Priti Patel’s team!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.

    I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
    Fascist.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333


    You are breathtakingly embarrasing

    I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
    It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.

    If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
    We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.

    Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Fascist.
    Hag.
  • HYUFD said:

    It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
    It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse

    However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks

    You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse

    Shame on you
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,216
    IshmaelZ said:

    Hag.
    Nobody tells me nothing!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Nobody tells me nothing!
    Grasshopper
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,227
    boulay said:

    Prince Andrew isn’t a Windsor, he’s definitely Staines.
    I think that at the time of the wedding, Lord Mountbatten was getting very over-excited proclaiming the new 'Royal House of Mountbatten', and he was put in his place.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse

    However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks

    You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse

    Shame on you
    If there is one thing that we have learnt about young FUDHY over the years, it is that he is shameless. Quite literally.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse

    However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks

    You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse

    Shame on you
    If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.

    I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,216

    I am looking forward to being canvassed by Priti Patel’s team!

    Hopefully not a euphemism!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    kjh said:

    We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.

    Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
    And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    HYUFD said:

    If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.

    I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
    By tanks?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    kjh said:

    By tanks?
    By riot police
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Hopefully not a euphemism!
    Wouldn't mind putting a ballot in her box, naarmean? Phwoar.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    HYUFD said:

    By riot police
    So what happened to the tanks and troops you previously posted about then?
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737

    It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse

    However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks

    You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse

    Shame on you
    He's entitled to his views on Scotland and HYUFD is not a fascist. It's all academic for now anyway as I don't actually see another indyref happening until at least 2028 anyway.

    It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.



  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    By riot police
    Rosgvardia
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,941
    Some people should get a room.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,204
    IshmaelZ said:

    Rosgvardia
    Is that Douglas Ross's militia?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,609
    HYUFD said:

    Yes I was supportive about Thatcher's support for Pinochet not being prosecuted here, as his support was crucial to our victory in the Falklands War.

    I certainly agree with MM and SF than they do a LD like you on most issues, not that I care less what you think on that
    Supporting Pinochet and the failure to extradite him for prosecution because he supported the UK against Argentina in the Falklands is not necessarily to be applauded, based on his domestic policy.

    Should we not engage in the prosecution of Putin at the Hague should he arrive on our shores or in the US because he enabled certain Leave factions and Trump factions? Your good guys.
  • HYUFD said:

    If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.

    I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
    I have voted in 16 general elections since 1964, and in hours helping the conservative party in that time probably more than yourself, my voting record in GEs is conservative 14, labour 2

    And I have never voted for Plaid you hypocrite

    You talk the most unmitigated rubbish and do shame 99.9% of the conservative party
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
    Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.

    For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.

    Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.

    Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
    Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.

    Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.

    Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
  • He's entitled to his views on Scotland and HYUFD is not a fascist. It's all academic for now anyway as I don't actually see another indyref happening until at least 2028 anyway.

    It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.



    I have not said @HYUFD is a fascist, just his language is incendiary on Scotland
  • kjh said:

    So what happened to the tanks and troops you previously posted about then?
    Back ups !!!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    https://twitter.com/scobie/status/1510287895277494278

    Andrew thinks that the plural of family is family's, and that "a full weep" is English.

    I think that about wraps it up for the royal fam.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,429
    HYUFD said:

    The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.

    Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
    He didn’t look like an exile at Prince Philip’s memorial service.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,609

    I have not said @HYUFD is a fascist, just his language is incendiary on Scotland
    He is nonetheless very much on the authoritarian side of any argument.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,355

    Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.

    Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.

    Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
    I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade.
    How is any of that fascist?
    Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Freedom fries.

    How long before Fortnum n Mason rename Haggis the South Downs Gourmet Sausage?
    "North British Home-style Sheep-Turned-Inside-Out"
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322

    He is nonetheless very much on the authoritarian side of any argument.
    An understated post.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    kjh said:

    Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.

    For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
    Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,001
    HYUFD said:

    If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.

    I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
    I’m intrigued as to whether I pass the conservative test. Or your conservative test.

    Never “lived” in the UK apart from school and university. Have been unswervingly in favour of conservative governments for the UK since watching an election night with my father, as a v young chap, who was adamantly pro thatcher.

    Even managed to shout dog’s abuse at Glenda Jackson from our very anti-Labour student house in 1997 as she drove round Hampstead thanking us for voting for her - we didn’t - but it was the morning after a very pissy Thursday night.

    Have been an overseas member of the Tory party.

    So basically cannot vote even though whoever gets in to power in the UK has a profound affect on my life.

    If I moved to the UK am I allowed to be a conservative? Or do I have to go through a proving period?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    Supporting Pinochet and the failure to extradite him for prosecution because he supported the UK against Argentina in the Falklands is not necessarily to be applauded, based on his domestic policy.

    Should we not engage in the prosecution of Putin at the Hague should he arrive on our shores or in the US because he enabled certain Leave factions and Trump factions? Your good guys.
    Leave won because people wanted to leave the EU, not Putin. Pinochet however was crucial to keeping the Falklands free from Argentina occupation
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    In ,2 weeks time I hope I am going to be walking again and therefore spending less time on PB. You are all going to be so disappointed aren't you?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    HYUFD said:

    Leave won because people wanted to leave the EU, not Putin. Pinochet however was crucial to keeping the Falklands free from Argentina occupation
    Whoosh straight over the head.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Hopefully not a euphemism!
    "Question 7: how would you rate your preventive detention experience?
    > satisfying
    > sobering
    > chilling
    > terrifying
    > can I please have my tongue back so I can answer the question?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,067

    He didn’t look like an exile at Prince Philip’s memorial service.
    Don't they even let prisoners out to funerals/memorial services?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,929

    I have not said @HYUFD is a fascist, just his language is incendiary on Scotland
    Not sure, why there's all this pother about sending in tanks north of the border. IndyRef is a dead duck.

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/dundee/3164273/arbroath-indymarch-in-pictures/

    "However, the numbers fell well short of the 10,000 that organiser All Under One Banner had hoped for.
    One independent counter clocked up 735 marchers along with 65 motorbikes."
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade.
    How is any of that fascist?
    Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
    I did not call Brexiteers fascists. I said that modern fascists are using Brexit as a tool to further their aims.

    An awful lot of ordinary, non-fascist Germans were very upset about Versailles, and the Nazis saw that and used it.

    What decent Leave voters need to do now is clearly, decisively and urgently dissociate themselves from the extremists. Negate Brexit as a tool for authoritarianism.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    HYUFD said:

    Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
    I assumed that would be on your to do list.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,800
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
    Please just step away from your keyboard and enjoy a rich tea and a cup of tea
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2022

    I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade.
    How is any of that fascist?
    Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
    Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.

    Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.

    Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.

    At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power with their soft half-arsed fascism. It looks to me like they’ve succeeded in consolidating it.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,001
    kjh said:

    In ,2 weeks time I hope I am going to be walking again and therefore spending less time on PB. You are all going to be so disappointed aren't you?

    If you are no longer legless on PB on a Saturday evening then I will not be disappointed but jealous!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,216
    HYUFD said:

    Leave won because people wanted to leave the EU, not Putin. Pinochet however was crucial to keeping the Falklands free from Argentina occupation
    HYUFD voted to Remain.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
    Threats don’t come much clearer than that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,986
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://twitter.com/scobie/status/1510287895277494278

    Andrew thinks that the plural of family is family's, and that "a full weep" is English.

    I think that about wraps it up for the royal fam.

    PTSD from a friendly chaff shell sort of in the vicinity?
    The day the sweating stopped.
  • kjh said:

    In ,2 weeks time I hope I am going to be walking again and therefore spending less time on PB. You are all going to be so disappointed aren't you?

    Good luck and keep posting
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,609
    HYUFD said:

    Leave won because people wanted to leave the EU, not Putin. Pinochet however was crucial to keeping the Falklands free from Argentina occupation
    There is a train of thought that suggests Putin's Russia had a bearing on the Brexit vote and Trump winning in 2016. How influential those interventions were is debatable, but it is possible that Putin pushed either or both over the line. That being so, does Putin in that instance, namely being on the side of the good and the righteous mitigate his otherwise manifold criminality? That is the get out of jail free card you are applying to Pinochet.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,204
    On Topic (my apologies to those who would rather quarrel): I am not clear on OGH's theory about the relationship he believes he has found. What causes that pattern? Is it found only in the UK? Or are there parallels elsewhere?

    One possibility would be Anthony Downs' "coalition of minorities". The longer a party stays in power, the more they offend small groups, which eventually accumulate to a majority against them. (Caveat: It's been years since I read Downs.)

    And, of course, almost everyone has seen this cautionary cartoon: https://xkcd.com/1122/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,355

    I did not call Brexiteers fascists. I said that modern fascists are using Brexit as a tool to further their aims.

    An awful lot of ordinary, non-fascist Germans were very upset about Versailles, and the Nazis saw that and used it.

    What decent Leave voters need to do now is clearly, decisively and urgently dissociate themselves from the extremists. Negate Brexit as a tool for authoritarianism.
    Fair point. But who are these fascists you refer too?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Please just step away from your keyboard and enjoy a rich tea and a cup of tea
    It is post 20 March. He’s on the white wine and salad.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,355
    ping said:

    Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.

    Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.

    Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.

    At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
    I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,927
    Economist latest prediction:

    Macron 54%
    Le Pen 46%

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/france-2022
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
    Breathtakingly naive to believe that trade policy is somehow a non-political issue. Thatcherism bred a generation of social and political incompetents.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,067
    HYUFD said:

    Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
    Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,570
    HYUFD said:

    If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.

    I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
    Grannies trying to cast a ballot does not constitute a riot. You were creaming yourself when the hired thugs of the Falange were dragging pensioners out of polling stations by their hair, and have advocated the same in Scotland.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,609

    I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
    A unicorn by any other name.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,355

    Breathtakingly naive to believe that trade policy is somehow a non-political issue. Thatcherism bred a generation of social and political incompetents.
    Not what I said. Brexit aspires to free trade everywhere. The eu is a protectionist bloc. That’s their right.
  • kle4 said:

    Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
    I do not think he sees it as funny, he believes it sadly
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,355

    A unicorn by any other name.
    Absolutely. As the eu made clear you cannot have better terms outside of the eu, than by being a member. After all, if you did, what would be the point if the eu? So in the real world it’s not easy to have that lovely free trade to Europe without the nasty politics and yes, paying a lot of money to eu coffers. But Brexit was never about protectionism.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    kle4 said:

    Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
    I didn't take offence and sadly it is true.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re: what might be called "Battle-tanks Over the Border" perhaps the seeming ease which a recalcitrant, breakaway nationality has blunted an armored invasion, has given pause to proponents?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,570
    So if these internment camps are near Cambridge, will we be transported through Essex to reach them?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2022
    We need to kick these cokeheads out of parliament. Regular drug testing, now.

    Simply unacceptable.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,609

    Absolutely. As the eu made clear you cannot have better terms outside of the eu, than by being a member. After all, if you did, what would be the point if the eu? So in the real world it’s not easy to have that lovely free trade to Europe without the nasty politics and yes, paying a lot of money to eu coffers. But Brexit was never about protectionism.
    I suspect it might have been to some. It certainly was about curtailing immigration from Eastern Europe for many.

    Your earlier implication that Brexit had (my interpreted analogy) a thousand and one definitions to a thousand and one Brexiteers is surely bob-on.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,429

    Not sure, why there's all this pother about sending in tanks north of the border. IndyRef is a dead duck.

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/dundee/3164273/arbroath-indymarch-in-pictures/

    "However, the numbers fell well short of the 10,000 that organiser All Under One Banner had hoped for.
    One independent counter clocked up 735 marchers along with 65 motorbikes."

    Reluctant though I am to contribute to a really tedious debate, HYUFD is neither a fascist nor a true Conservative. He's a Millwall supporter: nobody likes him, but he really doesn't care. However rubbish his team, he'll support them to the bitter end and fight the enemy.

    Personally, though, I find his contributions very useful, and not just on polling. Know thine enemy, as they say.

    Although I disagree with most (all?) of what @HYUFD says, he always argues politely, which is more than can be said of many of his critics this evening.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
    Is conjuring restless ghost of Sir Oswald Mosley copycatting Adolf Hitler, a step up OR down from channeling turbulent spirit of Madame de Krüdener urging on Alexander I?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    Pretty convincing allegations that Russian soldiers found 5 Ukrainian girls, stripped them, raped them, shot them, then tried to conceal the evidence by burning their bodies on tyres. By a road. They failed to destroy the “evidence”

    I shan’t link. It’s out there

    This is now a purely Fascist army, out of control. Yet backed by 80% of its people

    I’m not sure how this ends without a final showdown with Russia, and the extinction of Russia. Or all of us

    No one wants this, but it seems near inevitable

    One thing we can do - short of that - is tighten the sanctions enormously. Refuse Russian oil and gas. Deal with the consequences
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited April 2022
    kle4 said:

    Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
    Kjh called me a Fascist completely unprovoked this evening.

    He should accept the consequences of his actions and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Absolutely. As the eu made clear you cannot have better terms outside of the eu, than by being a member. After all, if you did, what would be the point if the eu? So in the real world it’s not easy to have that lovely free trade to Europe without the nasty politics and yes, paying a lot of money to eu coffers. But Brexit was never about protectionism.
    Nonsense.

    “Brexit’s economic nationalism also possesses protectionist elements, although this primarily relating to labour market, immigration and economic policy regulations. Any Brexit-induced trade protectionism will arise by default, especially if a ‘no deal’ outcome transpires where WTO-level tariffs will apply to future Britain–EU trade. In policy terms, Brexit is perhaps best understood as regulatory economic nationalism in seeking to ‘take back control’ of trade and other economic-related regulations. Brexit’s own splendid isolationist withdrawing…”

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1024529420921481
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322

    So if these internment camps are near Cambridge, will we be transported through Essex to reach them?

    I shouldn't laugh at that but it had be in hysterics. And of course it is meaningless unless you read the last thread so to anyone else they are going - What!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Kjh called me a Fascist completely unprovoked this evening.

    He should accept the consequences and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
    “Enemy of the State.”

    He just can’t help himself.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 908

    Not what I said. Brexit aspires to free trade everywhere. The eu is a protectionist bloc. That’s their right.
    I mean, kind of but also kind of not. The 'intellectual leaders' of Brexit wanted a Singapore on the Thames. The Red Wallers wanted to power to stop international competition and were much more protectionist in outlook. I believe there was some polling on this. The more affluent Brexiteers wanted more free trade with the world, while the less affluent wanted more protection. I'll try dig it out.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,429
    Burgessian said:
    » show previous quotes
    Not sure, why there's all this pother about sending in tanks north of the border. IndyRef is a dead duck.

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/dundee/3164273/arbroath-indymarch-in-pictures/

    "However, the numbers fell well short of the 10,000 that organiser All Under One Banner had hoped for.
    One independent counter clocked up 735 marchers along with 65 motorbikes."

    Not dead. Just sleeping until Sturgeon is deposed.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Farooq said:

    Fascist
    You are an enemy of FUDHY’s State. A badge of honour.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322
    HYUFD said:

    Kjh called me a Fascist completely unprovoked this evening.

    He should accept the consequences of his actions and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
    It wasn't unprovoked. You wanted to censor the free press. And it wasn't an insult because you are. The fact that you don't recognize what you are isn't my problem. Also I wasn't offended by your post. You are completely correct I would be dealt with by a fascist state. No doubt you approve.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,355

    I suspect it might have been to some. It certainly was about curtailing immigration from Eastern Europe for many.

    Your earlier implication that Brexit had (my interpreted analogy) a thousand and one definitions to a thousand and one Brexiteers is surely bob-on.
    Yes. Also use of the eu as the source of all the problems the country faces. One of the worst mistakes was not to seek greater clarity on what Brexit was being sought. The leave side used that ambiguity very well.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716
    Has there ever been a more pointless war than Putin's on Ukraine?

    I'm sure there must in the long history of war but can't be recent.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    kjh said:

    It wasn't unprovoked. You wanted to censor the free press. And it wasn't an insult because you are. The fact that you don't recognize what you are isn't my problem. Also I wasn't offended by your post. You are completely correct I would be dealt with by a fascist state. No doubt you approve.
    No, I wanted them not to give a propaganda sheet for the Argentine Minister by allowing him to write an entire article calling them 'Las Malvinas' not the Falkland Islands. For which you decided the most appropriate response was to call me a Fascist!
This discussion has been closed.