I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
Exile?! HMQ was hanging on his arm this week.
Your complacency is consistent.
At his father's memorial service, even prisoners can attend their father's funeral and memorial with their mother
“Tone deaf” will be the epitaph of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha dynasty and their fan club.
Serendiptously I just read on twitter that in 1917 George V changed the family name from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to Windsor not just because of general anti German feeling but specifically because of the Gotha bombers pounding London. The Luftwaffe should have named the 111 the Heinkel Windsor just to noise the royals up.
Come to think of it, there was always the Vickers Windsor. I had always assumned it was a Lancaster on the cheap to use Wellington tech and jigs, but it seems from this wiki to be worthy of more interest than that:
I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
Exile?! HMQ was hanging on his arm this week.
Your complacency is consistent.
At his father's memorial service, even prisoners can attend their father's funeral and memorial with their mother
“Tone deaf” will be the epitaph of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha dynasty and their fan club.
Serendiptously I just read on twitter that in 1917 George V changed the family name from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to Windsor not just because of general anti German feeling but specifically because of the Gotha bombers pounding London. The Luftwaffe should have named the 111 the Heinkel Windsor just to noise the royals up.
They were Saxe-Coburg and Gotha because Albert the Prince Consort was, Victoria was a Hanover. It seems odd that Victoria transmits everything else but not her surname, and also by the same principle Chas n baldy n Andy are surely Mountbattens and not Windsors.
Prince Andrew isn’t a Windsor, he’s definitely Staines.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
Exile?! HMQ was hanging on his arm this week.
Your complacency is consistent.
At his father's memorial service, even prisoners can attend their father's funeral and memorial with their mother
“Tone deaf” will be the epitaph of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha dynasty and their fan club.
Serendiptously I just read on twitter that in 1917 George V changed the family name from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to Windsor not just because of general anti German feeling but specifically because of the Gotha bombers pounding London. The Luftwaffe should have named the 111 the Heinkel Windsor just to noise the royals up.
Talking about name changes of that ilk, including German Shepherds/Alsatians, I came across this pretty mindboggling fact re NI -
"German Biscuits, also known as Empire Biscuits, Belgian Biscuits and, originally (according to Wikipedia) Linzer Biscuits or Deutsch Biscuits. In the brief history of the German Biscuit that I gleaned from my research, it turns out that around the time of WWI, many people started to call these Empire Biscuits. But in Northern Ireland, they continued to be called German Biscuits."
How long before Fortnum n Mason rename Haggis the South Downs Gourmet Sausage?
Well, the Unionist Party ion Scotland got renamed. Though I see both Tory and Labour are having, erm, difficulties about picking Orangist local councillors.
The 1965 debacle was not a rebranding. It was a full-scale capitulation and takeover by the English Conservative Party.
Bought, and sold.
But they’re still rotten wee sectarian bigots at heart. “Proper” English Tories are delightful in comparison.
One example. Of the scale of what they are finding in Tepe-land
The photo looks anonymous, meaningless
But it’s not. Chief archaeologist Nemri Kalul is casually pointing to that stone to say
“That is almost certainly the top of another five metre high megalith, buried beneath. We know the signs now. There are thousands everywhere. It could be an entire new temple complex. We just don’t have time to dig them all up”
That’s the scale of what they are uncovering. He reckons, for example, they have uncovered just 1% of what is buried at Karahan Tepe. At Gobekli Tepe it is still only about 10%. And there they have been slowed by the millions of visitors
You bin to Nemrut Dağ btw? Just round the corner and bloody sensational
Went there about this time of year, couldn't see a sign of a 9 metre high head of Zeus till we realised that a thing like a stone manhole cover on which we were standing, was the very top of his head, because snow. Same but different.
I am right now dallying between doing the 2nd half of my trip at Nemrut Dag, Cappadoccia, and some flesh pot on the coast
TBH I tempted by the coast. Archaeologically, nothing can match what I saw today. So maybe some nice seafood and Mediterranean spring sun is in order…
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
I don’t think one can call ANYONE a Fascist ‘in a spirit of harmless fun’!
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
I don’t think one can call ANYONE a Fascist ‘in a spirit of harmless fun’!
That was sort of my point, that I don't think you can propose to invade Scotland in a spirit of harmless fun either
One example. Of the scale of what they are finding in Tepe-land
The photo looks anonymous, meaningless
But it’s not. Chief archaeologist Nemri Kalul is casually pointing to that stone to say
“That is almost certainly the top of another five metre high megalith, buried beneath. We know the signs now. There are thousands everywhere. It could be an entire new temple complex. We just don’t have time to dig them all up”
That’s the scale of what they are uncovering. He reckons, for example, they have uncovered just 1% of what is buried at Karahan Tepe. At Gobekli Tepe it is still only about 10%. And there they have been slowed by the millions of visitors
I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
Exile?! HMQ was hanging on his arm this week.
Your complacency is consistent.
At his father's memorial service, even prisoners can attend their father's funeral and memorial with their mother
“Tone deaf” will be the epitaph of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha dynasty and their fan club.
Serendiptously I just read on twitter that in 1917 George V changed the family name from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to Windsor not just because of general anti German feeling but specifically because of the Gotha bombers pounding London. The Luftwaffe should have named the 111 the Heinkel Windsor just to noise the royals up.
They were Saxe-Coburg and Gotha because Albert the Prince Consort was, Victoria was a Hanover. It seems odd that Victoria transmits everything else but not her surname, and also by the same principle Chas n baldy n Andy are surely Mountbattens and not Windsors.
They look an awful lot like that old footman…
His name was Bloggs or Crapper or somesuch wasn’t it?
I was surprised that Nicola, usually pretty sure-footed, put the blame for the ferry contract on the unlamented Derek Mackay. It just sounded too convenient, and perhaps they thought he'd keep his head down. Could come back to haunt her. For once, the media has got on to something.
"Derek Mackay, the former SNP minister blamed by Nicola Sturgeon for the CalMac ferries fiasco, has said he intends to appear before the Scottish parliament to set the record straight.
"Speaking publicly for the first time since he left the Scottish government two years ago, he told The Sunday Times he intends to co-operate fully with a parliamentary inquiry, drawing on key government documents."
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
So you are backing down on the tanks and army now?
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
Exile?! HMQ was hanging on his arm this week.
Your complacency is consistent.
At his father's memorial service, even prisoners can attend their father's funeral and memorial with their mother
“Tone deaf” will be the epitaph of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha dynasty and their fan club.
Serendiptously I just read on twitter that in 1917 George V changed the family name from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to Windsor not just because of general anti German feeling but specifically because of the Gotha bombers pounding London. The Luftwaffe should have named the 111 the Heinkel Windsor just to noise the royals up.
They were Saxe-Coburg and Gotha because Albert the Prince Consort was, Victoria was a Hanover. It seems odd that Victoria transmits everything else but not her surname, and also by the same principle Chas n baldy n Andy are surely Mountbattens and not Windsors.
They look an awful lot like that old footman…
His name was Bloggs or Crapper or somesuch wasn’t it?
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
Exile?! HMQ was hanging on his arm this week.
Your complacency is consistent.
At his father's memorial service, even prisoners can attend their father's funeral and memorial with their mother
“Tone deaf” will be the epitaph of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha dynasty and their fan club.
Serendiptously I just read on twitter that in 1917 George V changed the family name from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to Windsor not just because of general anti German feeling but specifically because of the Gotha bombers pounding London. The Luftwaffe should have named the 111 the Heinkel Windsor just to noise the royals up.
They were Saxe-Coburg and Gotha because Albert the Prince Consort was, Victoria was a Hanover. It seems odd that Victoria transmits everything else but not her surname, and also by the same principle Chas n baldy n Andy are surely Mountbattens and not Windsors.
Prince Andrew isn’t a Windsor, he’s definitely Staines.
I think that at the time of the wedding, Lord Mountbatten was getting very over-excited proclaiming the new 'Royal House of Mountbatten', and he was put in his place.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there is one thing that we have learnt about young FUDHY over the years, it is that he is shameless. Quite literally.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
By tanks?
By riot police
So what happened to the tanks and troops you previously posted about then?
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
He's entitled to his views on Scotland and HYUFD is not a fascist. It's all academic for now anyway as I don't actually see another indyref happening until at least 2028 anyway.
It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
No I call you a fascist because you want to censor the free press for an article where the author used a word that is part of his own language but you disapprove and therefore should be banned. A typical stance of a fascist. Also because:
- You think Russia is democratic - You approve of Pinochet - You would put down an unofficial referendum with troops - You would nuke a country without nuclear weapons. - You openly don't feel the views of a losing side in an election should be considered ignoring the respected view that Governments govern for all.
The list goes on. Your views are that of a typical fascist and not of a Tory, which can be seen by the fact that not a single Tory here supports your views.
No.
You call me a fascist because you are a pompous, tedious Liberal bore who now resorts to abuse against anyone who does not share their mindset!
Thatcher herself approved of Pinochet's support in the Falklands War, the Tory UK government's official policy is to continue to refuse indyref2.
Name me one Labour government where most Tory voters were happy with it or one Tory government where most Labour voters were happy with it?
Despite the Tories still polling around 35% you can count the number of still Tory voting Boris supporters on here on 1 hand. That means very little. However still most of them do not call me and others like me 'fascist' like you just have!
Firstly others have.
Re your comments on Thatcher and Indy ref I agree.
It was necessary in the Falkland war, that doesn't mean you have to support Pinochet. Did you? Your comments the other day implied you did.
Re Indy ref there is a difference between not supporting a referendum and threatening troops.
I don't call you a fascist for supporting Johnson, I call you a fascist because of your beliefs. Boris is not a fascist, but you are.
You are also exceptionally authoritarian, another trait.
Does it not cross your mind that your views are different to every Tory on this site. I am closer to all of them than you.
Where have I said send troops into Scotland to occupy it? Controlling riots a la the non Fascist Spanish government in Catalonia when indyref2 is refused is a different matter.
I did not make any comments supporting Pinochet's domestic policy, just his support in the Falklands War, so wrong on that too.
My views aren't different to most of those Tories still voting Tory no, your views are. However you just have to be abusive to any Conservatives who actually are conservatives not just Orange Book LDs with blue rosettes
You are just making stuff up now.
You were not specific on riots when you threatened troops to Scotland. In fact you made lots of references to tanks which you don't use for riots unless are really blood thirsty. So you just made that up.
I never mentioned anything about Chile's domestic policy but you were enthusiastic about Thatcher's support and critical of Straw's position. So again you are making stuff up.
Re your comments about you being closer to Tory's still voting Tory. I'll pick two. I think @MarqueeMark and @Sean_F both of whom I think are still Torys and I think I agree with them on stuff more than you do.
Yes I was supportive about Thatcher's support for Pinochet not being prosecuted here, as his support was crucial to our victory in the Falklands War.
I certainly agree with MM and SF than they do a LD like you on most issues, not that I care less what you think on that
Supporting Pinochet and the failure to extradite him for prosecution because he supported the UK against Argentina in the Falklands is not necessarily to be applauded, based on his domestic policy.
Should we not engage in the prosecution of Putin at the Hague should he arrive on our shores or in the US because he enabled certain Leave factions and Trump factions? Your good guys.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
I have voted in 16 general elections since 1964, and in hours helping the conservative party in that time probably more than yourself, my voting record in GEs is conservative 14, labour 2
And I have never voted for Plaid you hypocrite
You talk the most unmitigated rubbish and do shame 99.9% of the conservative party
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
He's entitled to his views on Scotland and HYUFD is not a fascist. It's all academic for now anyway as I don't actually see another indyref happening until at least 2028 anyway.
It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.
I have not said @HYUFD is a fascist, just his language is incendiary on Scotland
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
By tanks?
By riot police
So what happened to the tanks and troops you previously posted about then?
I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
He didn’t look like an exile at Prince Philip’s memorial service.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
He's entitled to his views on Scotland and HYUFD is not a fascist. It's all academic for now anyway as I don't actually see another indyref happening until at least 2028 anyway.
It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.
I have not said @HYUFD is a fascist, just his language is incendiary on Scotland
He is nonetheless very much on the authoritarian side of any argument.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
Exile?! HMQ was hanging on his arm this week.
Your complacency is consistent.
At his father's memorial service, even prisoners can attend their father's funeral and memorial with their mother
“Tone deaf” will be the epitaph of the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha dynasty and their fan club.
Serendiptously I just read on twitter that in 1917 George V changed the family name from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to Windsor not just because of general anti German feeling but specifically because of the Gotha bombers pounding London. The Luftwaffe should have named the 111 the Heinkel Windsor just to noise the royals up.
Talking about name changes of that ilk, including German Shepherds/Alsatians, I came across this pretty mindboggling fact re NI -
"German Biscuits, also known as Empire Biscuits, Belgian Biscuits and, originally (according to Wikipedia) Linzer Biscuits or Deutsch Biscuits. In the brief history of the German Biscuit that I gleaned from my research, it turns out that around the time of WWI, many people started to call these Empire Biscuits. But in Northern Ireland, they continued to be called German Biscuits."
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
He's entitled to his views on Scotland and HYUFD is not a fascist. It's all academic for now anyway as I don't actually see another indyref happening until at least 2028 anyway.
It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.
I have not said @HYUFD is a fascist, just his language is incendiary on Scotland
He is nonetheless very much on the authoritarian side of any argument.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
I’m intrigued as to whether I pass the conservative test. Or your conservative test.
Never “lived” in the UK apart from school and university. Have been unswervingly in favour of conservative governments for the UK since watching an election night with my father, as a v young chap, who was adamantly pro thatcher.
Even managed to shout dog’s abuse at Glenda Jackson from our very anti-Labour student house in 1997 as she drove round Hampstead thanking us for voting for her - we didn’t - but it was the morning after a very pissy Thursday night.
Have been an overseas member of the Tory party.
So basically cannot vote even though whoever gets in to power in the UK has a profound affect on my life.
If I moved to the UK am I allowed to be a conservative? Or do I have to go through a proving period?
No I call you a fascist because you want to censor the free press for an article where the author used a word that is part of his own language but you disapprove and therefore should be banned. A typical stance of a fascist. Also because:
- You think Russia is democratic - You approve of Pinochet - You would put down an unofficial referendum with troops - You would nuke a country without nuclear weapons. - You openly don't feel the views of a losing side in an election should be considered ignoring the respected view that Governments govern for all.
The list goes on. Your views are that of a typical fascist and not of a Tory, which can be seen by the fact that not a single Tory here supports your views.
No.
You call me a fascist because you are a pompous, tedious Liberal bore who now resorts to abuse against anyone who does not share their mindset!
Thatcher herself approved of Pinochet's support in the Falklands War, the Tory UK government's official policy is to continue to refuse indyref2.
Name me one Labour government where most Tory voters were happy with it or one Tory government where most Labour voters were happy with it?
Despite the Tories still polling around 35% you can count the number of still Tory voting Boris supporters on here on 1 hand. That means very little. However still most of them do not call me and others like me 'fascist' like you just have!
Firstly others have.
Re your comments on Thatcher and Indy ref I agree.
It was necessary in the Falkland war, that doesn't mean you have to support Pinochet. Did you? Your comments the other day implied you did.
Re Indy ref there is a difference between not supporting a referendum and threatening troops.
I don't call you a fascist for supporting Johnson, I call you a fascist because of your beliefs. Boris is not a fascist, but you are.
You are also exceptionally authoritarian, another trait.
Does it not cross your mind that your views are different to every Tory on this site. I am closer to all of them than you.
Where have I said send troops into Scotland to occupy it? Controlling riots a la the non Fascist Spanish government in Catalonia when indyref2 is refused is a different matter.
I did not make any comments supporting Pinochet's domestic policy, just his support in the Falklands War, so wrong on that too.
My views aren't different to most of those Tories still voting Tory no, your views are. However you just have to be abusive to any Conservatives who actually are conservatives not just Orange Book LDs with blue rosettes
You are just making stuff up now.
You were not specific on riots when you threatened troops to Scotland. In fact you made lots of references to tanks which you don't use for riots unless are really blood thirsty. So you just made that up.
I never mentioned anything about Chile's domestic policy but you were enthusiastic about Thatcher's support and critical of Straw's position. So again you are making stuff up.
Re your comments about you being closer to Tory's still voting Tory. I'll pick two. I think @MarqueeMark and @Sean_F both of whom I think are still Torys and I think I agree with them on stuff more than you do.
Yes I was supportive about Thatcher's support for Pinochet not being prosecuted here, as his support was crucial to our victory in the Falklands War.
I certainly agree with MM and SF than they do a LD like you on most issues, not that I care less what you think on that
Supporting Pinochet and the failure to extradite him for prosecution because he supported the UK against Argentina in the Falklands is not necessarily to be applauded, based on his domestic policy.
Should we not engage in the prosecution of Putin at the Hague should he arrive on our shores or in the US because he enabled certain Leave factions and Trump factions? Your good guys.
Leave won because people wanted to leave the EU, not Putin. Pinochet however was crucial to keeping the Falklands free from Argentina occupation
No I call you a fascist because you want to censor the free press for an article where the author used a word that is part of his own language but you disapprove and therefore should be banned. A typical stance of a fascist. Also because:
- You think Russia is democratic - You approve of Pinochet - You would put down an unofficial referendum with troops - You would nuke a country without nuclear weapons. - You openly don't feel the views of a losing side in an election should be considered ignoring the respected view that Governments govern for all.
The list goes on. Your views are that of a typical fascist and not of a Tory, which can be seen by the fact that not a single Tory here supports your views.
No.
You call me a fascist because you are a pompous, tedious Liberal bore who now resorts to abuse against anyone who does not share their mindset!
Thatcher herself approved of Pinochet's support in the Falklands War, the Tory UK government's official policy is to continue to refuse indyref2.
Name me one Labour government where most Tory voters were happy with it or one Tory government where most Labour voters were happy with it?
Despite the Tories still polling around 35% you can count the number of still Tory voting Boris supporters on here on 1 hand. That means very little. However still most of them do not call me and others like me 'fascist' like you just have!
Firstly others have.
Re your comments on Thatcher and Indy ref I agree.
It was necessary in the Falkland war, that doesn't mean you have to support Pinochet. Did you? Your comments the other day implied you did.
Re Indy ref there is a difference between not supporting a referendum and threatening troops.
I don't call you a fascist for supporting Johnson, I call you a fascist because of your beliefs. Boris is not a fascist, but you are.
You are also exceptionally authoritarian, another trait.
Does it not cross your mind that your views are different to every Tory on this site. I am closer to all of them than you.
Where have I said send troops into Scotland to occupy it? Controlling riots a la the non Fascist Spanish government in Catalonia when indyref2 is refused is a different matter.
I did not make any comments supporting Pinochet's domestic policy, just his support in the Falklands War, so wrong on that too.
My views aren't different to most of those Tories still voting Tory no, your views are. However you just have to be abusive to any Conservatives who actually are conservatives not just Orange Book LDs with blue rosettes
You are just making stuff up now.
You were not specific on riots when you threatened troops to Scotland. In fact you made lots of references to tanks which you don't use for riots unless are really blood thirsty. So you just made that up.
I never mentioned anything about Chile's domestic policy but you were enthusiastic about Thatcher's support and critical of Straw's position. So again you are making stuff up.
Re your comments about you being closer to Tory's still voting Tory. I'll pick two. I think @MarqueeMark and @Sean_F both of whom I think are still Torys and I think I agree with them on stuff more than you do.
Yes I was supportive about Thatcher's support for Pinochet not being prosecuted here, as his support was crucial to our victory in the Falklands War.
I certainly agree with MM and SF than they do a LD like you on most issues, not that I care less what you think on that
Supporting Pinochet and the failure to extradite him for prosecution because he supported the UK against Argentina in the Falklands is not necessarily to be applauded, based on his domestic policy.
Should we not engage in the prosecution of Putin at the Hague should he arrive on our shores or in the US because he enabled certain Leave factions and Trump factions? Your good guys.
Leave won because people wanted to leave the EU, not Putin. Pinochet however was crucial to keeping the Falklands free from Argentina occupation
I am looking forward to being canvassed by Priti Patel’s team!
Hopefully not a euphemism!
"Question 7: how would you rate your preventive detention experience? > satisfying > sobering > chilling > terrifying > can I please have my tongue back so I can answer the question?
I'm fairly certain Prince Andrew is a secret republican, ditto the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge given their recent tour.
The Cambridges recent tour was fine apart from republicans driving an agenda.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession now so what he thinks on anything is of little relevance given he has now effectively been consigned to royal exile
He didn’t look like an exile at Prince Philip’s memorial service.
Don't they even let prisoners out to funerals/memorial services?
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
He's entitled to his views on Scotland and HYUFD is not a fascist. It's all academic for now anyway as I don't actually see another indyref happening until at least 2028 anyway.
It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.
I have not said @HYUFD is a fascist, just his language is incendiary on Scotland
Not sure, why there's all this pother about sending in tanks north of the border. IndyRef is a dead duck.
"However, the numbers fell well short of the 10,000 that organiser All Under One Banner had hoped for. One independent counter clocked up 735 marchers along with 65 motorbikes."
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
I did not call Brexiteers fascists. I said that modern fascists are using Brexit as a tool to further their aims.
An awful lot of ordinary, non-fascist Germans were very upset about Versailles, and the Nazis saw that and used it.
What decent Leave voters need to do now is clearly, decisively and urgently dissociate themselves from the extremists. Negate Brexit as a tool for authoritarianism.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Please just step away from your keyboard and enjoy a rich tea and a cup of tea
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power with their soft half-arsed fascism. It looks to me like they’ve succeeded in consolidating it.
No I call you a fascist because you want to censor the free press for an article where the author used a word that is part of his own language but you disapprove and therefore should be banned. A typical stance of a fascist. Also because:
- You think Russia is democratic - You approve of Pinochet - You would put down an unofficial referendum with troops - You would nuke a country without nuclear weapons. - You openly don't feel the views of a losing side in an election should be considered ignoring the respected view that Governments govern for all.
The list goes on. Your views are that of a typical fascist and not of a Tory, which can be seen by the fact that not a single Tory here supports your views.
No.
You call me a fascist because you are a pompous, tedious Liberal bore who now resorts to abuse against anyone who does not share their mindset!
Thatcher herself approved of Pinochet's support in the Falklands War, the Tory UK government's official policy is to continue to refuse indyref2.
Name me one Labour government where most Tory voters were happy with it or one Tory government where most Labour voters were happy with it?
Despite the Tories still polling around 35% you can count the number of still Tory voting Boris supporters on here on 1 hand. That means very little. However still most of them do not call me and others like me 'fascist' like you just have!
Firstly others have.
Re your comments on Thatcher and Indy ref I agree.
It was necessary in the Falkland war, that doesn't mean you have to support Pinochet. Did you? Your comments the other day implied you did.
Re Indy ref there is a difference between not supporting a referendum and threatening troops.
I don't call you a fascist for supporting Johnson, I call you a fascist because of your beliefs. Boris is not a fascist, but you are.
You are also exceptionally authoritarian, another trait.
Does it not cross your mind that your views are different to every Tory on this site. I am closer to all of them than you.
Where have I said send troops into Scotland to occupy it? Controlling riots a la the non Fascist Spanish government in Catalonia when indyref2 is refused is a different matter.
I did not make any comments supporting Pinochet's domestic policy, just his support in the Falklands War, so wrong on that too.
My views aren't different to most of those Tories still voting Tory no, your views are. However you just have to be abusive to any Conservatives who actually are conservatives not just Orange Book LDs with blue rosettes
You are just making stuff up now.
You were not specific on riots when you threatened troops to Scotland. In fact you made lots of references to tanks which you don't use for riots unless are really blood thirsty. So you just made that up.
I never mentioned anything about Chile's domestic policy but you were enthusiastic about Thatcher's support and critical of Straw's position. So again you are making stuff up.
Re your comments about you being closer to Tory's still voting Tory. I'll pick two. I think @MarqueeMark and @Sean_F both of whom I think are still Torys and I think I agree with them on stuff more than you do.
Yes I was supportive about Thatcher's support for Pinochet not being prosecuted here, as his support was crucial to our victory in the Falklands War.
I certainly agree with MM and SF than they do a LD like you on most issues, not that I care less what you think on that
Supporting Pinochet and the failure to extradite him for prosecution because he supported the UK against Argentina in the Falklands is not necessarily to be applauded, based on his domestic policy.
Should we not engage in the prosecution of Putin at the Hague should he arrive on our shores or in the US because he enabled certain Leave factions and Trump factions? Your good guys.
Leave won because people wanted to leave the EU, not Putin. Pinochet however was crucial to keeping the Falklands free from Argentina occupation
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Reluctant though I am to contribute to a really tedious debate, HYUFD is neither a fascist nor a true Conservative. He's a Millwall supporter: nobody likes him, but he really doesn't care. However rubbish his team, he'll support them to the bitter end and fight the enemy.
Personally, though, I find his contributions very useful, and not just on polling. Know thine enemy, as they say.
No I call you a fascist because you want to censor the free press for an article where the author used a word that is part of his own language but you disapprove and therefore should be banned. A typical stance of a fascist. Also because:
- You think Russia is democratic - You approve of Pinochet - You would put down an unofficial referendum with troops - You would nuke a country without nuclear weapons. - You openly don't feel the views of a losing side in an election should be considered ignoring the respected view that Governments govern for all.
The list goes on. Your views are that of a typical fascist and not of a Tory, which can be seen by the fact that not a single Tory here supports your views.
No.
You call me a fascist because you are a pompous, tedious Liberal bore who now resorts to abuse against anyone who does not share their mindset!
Thatcher herself approved of Pinochet's support in the Falklands War, the Tory UK government's official policy is to continue to refuse indyref2.
Name me one Labour government where most Tory voters were happy with it or one Tory government where most Labour voters were happy with it?
Despite the Tories still polling around 35% you can count the number of still Tory voting Boris supporters on here on 1 hand. That means very little. However still most of them do not call me and others like me 'fascist' like you just have!
Firstly others have.
Re your comments on Thatcher and Indy ref I agree.
It was necessary in the Falkland war, that doesn't mean you have to support Pinochet. Did you? Your comments the other day implied you did.
Re Indy ref there is a difference between not supporting a referendum and threatening troops.
I don't call you a fascist for supporting Johnson, I call you a fascist because of your beliefs. Boris is not a fascist, but you are.
You are also exceptionally authoritarian, another trait.
Does it not cross your mind that your views are different to every Tory on this site. I am closer to all of them than you.
Where have I said send troops into Scotland to occupy it? Controlling riots a la the non Fascist Spanish government in Catalonia when indyref2 is refused is a different matter.
I did not make any comments supporting Pinochet's domestic policy, just his support in the Falklands War, so wrong on that too.
My views aren't different to most of those Tories still voting Tory no, your views are. However you just have to be abusive to any Conservatives who actually are conservatives not just Orange Book LDs with blue rosettes
You are just making stuff up now.
You were not specific on riots when you threatened troops to Scotland. In fact you made lots of references to tanks which you don't use for riots unless are really blood thirsty. So you just made that up.
I never mentioned anything about Chile's domestic policy but you were enthusiastic about Thatcher's support and critical of Straw's position. So again you are making stuff up.
Re your comments about you being closer to Tory's still voting Tory. I'll pick two. I think @MarqueeMark and @Sean_F both of whom I think are still Torys and I think I agree with them on stuff more than you do.
Yes I was supportive about Thatcher's support for Pinochet not being prosecuted here, as his support was crucial to our victory in the Falklands War.
I certainly agree with MM and SF than they do a LD like you on most issues, not that I care less what you think on that
Supporting Pinochet and the failure to extradite him for prosecution because he supported the UK against Argentina in the Falklands is not necessarily to be applauded, based on his domestic policy.
Should we not engage in the prosecution of Putin at the Hague should he arrive on our shores or in the US because he enabled certain Leave factions and Trump factions? Your good guys.
Leave won because people wanted to leave the EU, not Putin. Pinochet however was crucial to keeping the Falklands free from Argentina occupation
There is a train of thought that suggests Putin's Russia had a bearing on the Brexit vote and Trump winning in 2016. How influential those interventions were is debatable, but it is possible that Putin pushed either or both over the line. That being so, does Putin in that instance, namely being on the side of the good and the righteous mitigate his otherwise manifold criminality? That is the get out of jail free card you are applying to Pinochet.
On Topic (my apologies to those who would rather quarrel): I am not clear on OGH's theory about the relationship he believes he has found. What causes that pattern? Is it found only in the UK? Or are there parallels elsewhere?
One possibility would be Anthony Downs' "coalition of minorities". The longer a party stays in power, the more they offend small groups, which eventually accumulate to a majority against them. (Caveat: It's been years since I read Downs.)
And, of course, almost everyone has seen this cautionary cartoon: https://xkcd.com/1122/
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
I did not call Brexiteers fascists. I said that modern fascists are using Brexit as a tool to further their aims.
An awful lot of ordinary, non-fascist Germans were very upset about Versailles, and the Nazis saw that and used it.
What decent Leave voters need to do now is clearly, decisively and urgently dissociate themselves from the extremists. Negate Brexit as a tool for authoritarianism.
Fair point. But who are these fascists you refer too?
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Please just step away from your keyboard and enjoy a rich tea and a cup of tea
It is post 20 March. He’s on the white wine and salad.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
Breathtakingly naive to believe that trade policy is somehow a non-political issue. Thatcherism bred a generation of social and political incompetents.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
If there are riots then they would need to be controlled.
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
Grannies trying to cast a ballot does not constitute a riot. You were creaming yourself when the hired thugs of the Falange were dragging pensioners out of polling stations by their hair, and have advocated the same in Scotland.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
Breathtakingly naive to believe that trade policy is somehow a non-political issue. Thatcherism bred a generation of social and political incompetents.
Not what I said. Brexit aspires to free trade everywhere. The eu is a protectionist bloc. That’s their right.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
I do not think he sees it as funny, he believes it sadly
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
A unicorn by any other name.
Absolutely. As the eu made clear you cannot have better terms outside of the eu, than by being a member. After all, if you did, what would be the point if the eu? So in the real world it’s not easy to have that lovely free trade to Europe without the nasty politics and yes, paying a lot of money to eu coffers. But Brexit was never about protectionism.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
Re: what might be called "Battle-tanks Over the Border" perhaps the seeming ease which a recalcitrant, breakaway nationality has blunted an armored invasion, has given pause to proponents?
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
A unicorn by any other name.
Absolutely. As the eu made clear you cannot have better terms outside of the eu, than by being a member. After all, if you did, what would be the point if the eu? So in the real world it’s not easy to have that lovely free trade to Europe without the nasty politics and yes, paying a lot of money to eu coffers. But Brexit was never about protectionism.
I suspect it might have been to some. It certainly was about curtailing immigration from Eastern Europe for many.
Your earlier implication that Brexit had (my interpreted analogy) a thousand and one definitions to a thousand and one Brexiteers is surely bob-on.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
If you seriously think it OK to invade Scotland to enforce the Union, you are seriously a fascist.
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
You cannot invade part of your own sovereign country, Scotland is as much a part of the UK as England is.
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
It is official Conservative policy to refuse indyref2 for a generation, of course I would
It may be policy to refuse it this parliament , but then it is upto parliament to decide which at present would refuse
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
He's entitled to his views on Scotland and HYUFD is not a fascist. It's all academic for now anyway as I don't actually see another indyref happening until at least 2028 anyway.
It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.
I have not said @HYUFD is a fascist, just his language is incendiary on Scotland
Not sure, why there's all this pother about sending in tanks north of the border. IndyRef is a dead duck.
"However, the numbers fell well short of the 10,000 that organiser All Under One Banner had hoped for. One independent counter clocked up 735 marchers along with 65 motorbikes."
Reluctant though I am to contribute to a really tedious debate, HYUFD is neither a fascist nor a true Conservative. He's a Millwall supporter: nobody likes him, but he really doesn't care. However rubbish his team, he'll support them to the bitter end and fight the enemy.
Personally, though, I find his contributions very useful, and not just on polling. Know thine enemy, as they say.
Although I disagree with most (all?) of what @HYUFD says, he always argues politely, which is more than can be said of many of his critics this evening.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
Is conjuring restless ghost of Sir Oswald Mosley copycatting Adolf Hitler, a step up OR down from channeling turbulent spirit of Madame de Krüdener urging on Alexander I?
Pretty convincing allegations that Russian soldiers found 5 Ukrainian girls, stripped them, raped them, shot them, then tried to conceal the evidence by burning their bodies on tyres. By a road. They failed to destroy the “evidence”
I shan’t link. It’s out there
This is now a purely Fascist army, out of control. Yet backed by 80% of its people
I’m not sure how this ends without a final showdown with Russia, and the extinction of Russia. Or all of us
No one wants this, but it seems near inevitable
One thing we can do - short of that - is tighten the sanctions enormously. Refuse Russian oil and gas. Deal with the consequences
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
Kjh called me a Fascist completely unprovoked this evening.
He should accept the consequences of his actions and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
A unicorn by any other name.
Absolutely. As the eu made clear you cannot have better terms outside of the eu, than by being a member. After all, if you did, what would be the point if the eu? So in the real world it’s not easy to have that lovely free trade to Europe without the nasty politics and yes, paying a lot of money to eu coffers. But Brexit was never about protectionism.
Nonsense.
“Brexit’s economic nationalism also possesses protectionist elements, although this primarily relating to labour market, immigration and economic policy regulations. Any Brexit-induced trade protectionism will arise by default, especially if a ‘no deal’ outcome transpires where WTO-level tariffs will apply to future Britain–EU trade. In policy terms, Brexit is perhaps best understood as regulatory economic nationalism in seeking to ‘take back control’ of trade and other economic-related regulations. Brexit’s own splendid isolationist withdrawing…”
So if these internment camps are near Cambridge, will we be transported through Essex to reach them?
I shouldn't laugh at that but it had be in hysterics. And of course it is meaningless unless you read the last thread so to anyone else they are going - What!
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
Kjh called me a Fascist completely unprovoked this evening.
He should accept the consequences and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
But you and your party are not “traditional conservatives”.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics - Second jobs, not public service - Serving clients, not constituents - Peppa Pig, not promoting productivity - Cokeheads, not sober - Law-breakers, not law enforcers -Presidential system, not constitutional monarchy - Sovereign party, not sovereign parliament - Police fines, not clean sheets - Windrush disgrace, not Ukrainian solidarity
The only constants are the blue rosettes, greed and jingoism.
Much of that of course comes back to your side blocking Brexit.
Conservatism is also not automatically free market, indeed conservatives have often been pro tariff and pro protectionist not free trade.
Support for the free market and free trade is more a liberal trait than a conservative one
Hitler nursed the Versailles grudge.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
I rather think that over eggs brexiteers, to call them fascists. Brexit is globalist, rather than protectionist. It seeks trade and relations will all around the world, equally, not a closed shop in Europe. It seeks genuine free trade. How is any of that fascist? Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Brexit promised protectionism and pull-up-the-drawbridge to those who wanted more protectionism and to pull-up-the-drawbridge.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power.
I don’t believe Brexit offered protectionism. It anticipated free trade with Europe without the political side.
Breathtakingly naive to believe that trade policy is somehow a non-political issue. Thatcherism bred a generation of social and political incompetents.
Not what I said. Brexit aspires to free trade everywhere. The eu is a protectionist bloc. That’s their right.
I mean, kind of but also kind of not. The 'intellectual leaders' of Brexit wanted a Singapore on the Thames. The Red Wallers wanted to power to stop international competition and were much more protectionist in outlook. I believe there was some polling on this. The more affluent Brexiteers wanted more free trade with the world, while the less affluent wanted more protection. I'll try dig it out.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
Kjh called me a Fascist completely unprovoked this evening.
He should accept the consequences of his actions and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
"However, the numbers fell well short of the 10,000 that organiser All Under One Banner had hoped for. One independent counter clocked up 735 marchers along with 65 motorbikes."
Not dead. Just sleeping until Sturgeon is deposed.
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
Kjh called me a Fascist completely unprovoked this evening.
He should accept the consequences of his actions and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
Fascist
You are an enemy of FUDHY’s State. A badge of honour.
The ridiculous spectacle of PB arguing whether @hyufd from Epping is a fascist when we have actual Fascism slaughtering thousands of Europeans RIGHT NOW, presaging all out global war
@HYUFD having been away and just read the end of the last thread it is also not edifying that having got 2 things of no importance whatsoever wrong you can't admit it. You specifically said a restaurant had a Michelin star and one had to go through Essex on a trip you defined. Neither were correct. You then moved the goal posts on both.
What is wrong with you that you can never admit you are wrong even on trivia?
I really don't care, this is a politics blog not Mastermind. However I will admit I was not exactly right if that makes you happy.
Still does not give you the right to call me a Fascist!
Neither do I buy you seem to as you will bang on and on trying to defend an obvious error.
I have every right to call you a fascist because that is what your views imply. I forgot about that admiration of Franco that others stated. You fit that group almost perfectly. The only area where you don't would be that, to your credit, you don't express any race or homophobic views.
Well given an actual former Fascist is polling 47% in the French election runoff polls later this month and Trump, frequently called a Fascist got 46% in 2016 and 47% in 2020 in the US election and the President of Russia has just invaded his neighbour one could say there is a fair amount of Fascism about again now. Some have also called Bolsonaro, the President of Italy and Salvini, the main right of centre leader in Italy, Fascists. However I am a conservative not a Fascist
If you are a conservative why are you such a fan of a PM who has more in common with the Revolutionary Communist Party than Ken Clarke or Phillip Hammond?
At best you are an extreme Conservative party loyalist (which is quite different from conservative), but from your posting it seems reasonable to assume you at least admire many fascists, and are happy to adopt their style of politics, even if you do not want the same outcomes.
It is of course common practice now for many on the left or liberal spectrum to call anyone further right of Ken Clarke or David Cameron a Fascist. In which case 43% of the country are Fascists given they voted for Boris in 2019. I of course did vote for May's Tories over Farage in the 2019 European elections unlike some on here.
However given Labour voters in 2019 and 2017 voted for a near Communist with plenty of anti Semitic supporters you don't really have a great deal of moral high ground on this
You really don't get it, do you? It is not about being left or right. Steve Baker or David Davis are both significantly to the right of Clarke or Cameron but have a very different approach, and are in no sense fascists.
They don't want to take us back to the glorious 1950s. They do not view dissent as treason. They don't drone on about past wars. They can think for themselves rather than rely on the "will of the people".
Steve Baker and David Davis are extreme libertarians, quite often more than they are conservatives.
Hence liberals might like some of their views in a way they cannot tolerate the views of traditional conservatives, hence they call them 'Fascists'.
Of course driving traditional conservatives in this way out of mainstream debate is the quickest way to expand support for those who genuinely are Fascists
You genuinely are a fascist. Although you share many of the same views as Tory MPs, nearly all of them do NOT share your views that fall into the fascist camp.
Let me give you another example. Nigel Farage is to the right of the Tories but I wouldn't call him a fascist, although he is pushing the boundaries sometime.
You won't because it wouldn't help you win your tedious argument as to why you have to call me a Fascist, that is all.
Well I can prove that wrong because it was discussed the other day and I said so then. I can find the reference if you wish. Not doing very well in this argument are you,?
You started this argument by resorting to abuse, not me.
You are clearly not going to withdraw your allegation so why should I care, it says more about you than me
How did I abuse you? I said you were a fascist. Your views put you in that politic grouping. I don't approve of fascists but it is a valid political group.
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
Well it is attitudes of liberals like you that actually will expand Fascism.
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
We have covered this already. I might not agree with traditional Tories but I don't call them fascists because they are not. Your views go way beyond traditional conservatism. I and others have already listed out areas where you are different.
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
And as I said your attitudes will bring forward the day we do have a genuine Fascist government and you will not like the results
Tell me how your views differ from fascism then? I'll give you, that to your credit, you don't have any racist or homophobic views, so I'm knocking that one off.
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Wait until we had a genuine Fascist government, under which you would likely be interned or worse. Then you would find out
Dangerously close to threatening people. I know you think this sort of thing is funny, but less is more.
Kjh called me a Fascist completely unprovoked this evening.
He should accept the consequences of his actions and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
It wasn't unprovoked. You wanted to censor the free press. And it wasn't an insult because you are. The fact that you don't recognize what you are isn't my problem. Also I wasn't offended by your post. You are completely correct I would be dealt with by a fascist state. No doubt you approve.
Comments
If you are only joking, it is permissible to call you a fascist in a spirit of harmless fun.
Bought, and sold.
But they’re still rotten wee sectarian bigots at heart. “Proper” English Tories are delightful in comparison.
TBH I tempted by the coast. Archaeologically, nothing can match what I saw today. So maybe some nice seafood and Mediterranean spring sun is in order…
I also never once said we should invade them, however indyref2 should be refused for a generation and if it needed riot police to enforce that because of extreme Scottish nationalists then so be it
The fact that you can't recognise that is the group you belong to isn't my problem. Try asking others here where they think you fit.
His name was Bloggs or Crapper or somesuch wasn’t it?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/derek-mackay-set-record-straight-calmac-ferries-inquiry-2k5q86xn0
"Derek Mackay, the former SNP minister blamed by Nicola Sturgeon for the CalMac ferries fiasco, has said he intends to appear before the Scottish parliament to set the record straight.
"Speaking publicly for the first time since he left the Scottish government two years ago, he told The Sunday Times he intends to co-operate fully with a parliamentary inquiry, drawing on key government documents."
You are breathtakingly embarrasing
I hope you do not share your views when canvassing
If traditional conservatives like me end up being branded as 'Fascists' by the likes of you very soon we will have our own Trump or Le Pen as you drive decent conservatives towards the extreme right. You certainly will not like the results of the Fascist government we get then. Then it really will make Boris and me look liberal!
Much as I disapprove of Boris he is not a Fascist. You are.
However your language with reference to sending in riot police is incendiary and you have in the past mentioned tanks
You are an embarrassment not only to the party but yourself and you have the ability to make it worse
Shame on you
I also do not need to be told 'shame on you' for being an embarrassment to the Conservative Party by you given half the time you do not even vote Conservative, as evidenced when you voted for New Labour and Blair
It's his views on Northern Ireland I'm concerned by, particularly his support for Jamie Bryson's mob and apparent sympathy for hardline loyalists at times, particularly the protocol protests which the UUP leader has now pulled out of.
Should we not engage in the prosecution of Putin at the Hague should he arrive on our shores or in the US because he enabled certain Leave factions and Trump factions? Your good guys.
And I have never voted for Plaid you hypocrite
You talk the most unmitigated rubbish and do shame 99.9% of the conservative party
For crying out loud you think Russia is a democracy. It isn't.
Modern fascists nurse the Brexit grudge.
Brexit will *never* be over. The war will never be won. You are simultaneously victorious and tragic failures.
Andrew thinks that the plural of family is family's, and that "a full weep" is English.
I think that about wraps it up for the royal fam.
How is any of that fascist?
Brexit is over, what is next is the ever changing relationships with our European friends. Step away from political anoraks and most people have consigned Brexit to the finished pile. You can certainly argue that some conservatives want to keep it current, to keep the 2019 coalition in play, but I don’t think the public will buy.
Never “lived” in the UK apart from school and university. Have been unswervingly in favour of conservative governments for the UK since watching an election night with my father, as a v young chap, who was adamantly pro thatcher.
Even managed to shout dog’s abuse at Glenda Jackson from our very anti-Labour student house in 1997 as she drove round Hampstead thanking us for voting for her - we didn’t - but it was the morning after a very pissy Thursday night.
Have been an overseas member of the Tory party.
So basically cannot vote even though whoever gets in to power in the UK has a profound affect on my life.
If I moved to the UK am I allowed to be a conservative? Or do I have to go through a proving period?
> satisfying
> sobering
> chilling
> terrifying
> can I please have my tongue back so I can answer the question?
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/dundee/3164273/arbroath-indymarch-in-pictures/
"However, the numbers fell well short of the 10,000 that organiser All Under One Banner had hoped for.
One independent counter clocked up 735 marchers along with 65 motorbikes."
An awful lot of ordinary, non-fascist Germans were very upset about Versailles, and the Nazis saw that and used it.
What decent Leave voters need to do now is clearly, decisively and urgently dissociate themselves from the extremists. Negate Brexit as a tool for authoritarianism.
Simultaneously, and shamelessly, it also offered free trade and more immigration to those who wanted more immigration and more free trade.
Brexit was whatever-the-fuck-you-wanted-it-to-be, right up until the point when the result came in.
At the end of the day, the brexiteers smashed the Cameronite consensus and @hyufd ‘s lot grabbed power with their soft half-arsed fascism. It looks to me like they’ve succeeded in consolidating it.
The day the sweating stopped.
Personally, though, I find his contributions very useful, and not just on polling. Know thine enemy, as they say.
One possibility would be Anthony Downs' "coalition of minorities". The longer a party stays in power, the more they offend small groups, which eventually accumulate to a majority against them. (Caveat: It's been years since I read Downs.)
And, of course, almost everyone has seen this cautionary cartoon: https://xkcd.com/1122/
Macron 54%
Le Pen 46%
https://www.economist.com/interactive/france-2022
Simply unacceptable.
Your earlier implication that Brexit had (my interpreted analogy) a thousand and one definitions to a thousand and one Brexiteers is surely bob-on.
I shan’t link. It’s out there
This is now a purely Fascist army, out of control. Yet backed by 80% of its people
I’m not sure how this ends without a final showdown with Russia, and the extinction of Russia. Or all of us
No one wants this, but it seems near inevitable
One thing we can do - short of that - is tighten the sanctions enormously. Refuse Russian oil and gas. Deal with the consequences
He should accept the consequences of his actions and he is exactly the type of person who would be dealt with by a Fascist government as an enemy of the State.
“Brexit’s economic nationalism also possesses protectionist elements, although this primarily relating to labour market, immigration and economic policy regulations. Any Brexit-induced trade protectionism will arise by default, especially if a ‘no deal’ outcome transpires where WTO-level tariffs will apply to future Britain–EU trade. In policy terms, Brexit is perhaps best understood as regulatory economic nationalism in seeking to ‘take back control’ of trade and other economic-related regulations. Brexit’s own splendid isolationist withdrawing…”
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1024529420921481
He just can’t help himself.
» show previous quotes
Not sure, why there's all this pother about sending in tanks north of the border. IndyRef is a dead duck.
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/dundee/3164273/arbroath-indymarch-in-pictures/
"However, the numbers fell well short of the 10,000 that organiser All Under One Banner had hoped for.
One independent counter clocked up 735 marchers along with 65 motorbikes."
Not dead. Just sleeping until Sturgeon is deposed.
Get a grip. Everyone