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Day 15 of the Ukraine crisis and some of Friday’s front pages – politicalbetting.com

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Ukraine says a nuclear research facility has been bombed by Russian forces, accusing Moscow of "nuclear terrorism".

    Ukraine's State Nuclear Regulatory Inspectorate said the facility in the north-eastern city of Kharkiv had lost power and suffered "superficial" damage during the shelling late on Thursday.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,076
    @marcorubio
    #Putin appears to have abandoned initial plan of installing puppet leaders in #Ukraine

    New plan appears to be:
    - encircle & pound on #Kyiv #Chernihiv #Kharkiv #Mylolayiv & #Zaporizhzhya
    -seize #Mariupol & #Odessa
    -wear down Ukraine’s military
    -then dictate terms for ending war


    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1502084617775501334
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,076
    @jendeben
    NEWS: @POTUS tomorrow will call for an end of normal trade relations with Russia, clearing the way for increased tariffs on Russian imports. Announcement will be alongside G7 & EU leaders. He'll work with Congress on legislation to repeal PNTR. Both parties have pushed for this.


    https://twitter.com/jendeben/status/1502115365018648614
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,681
    Extraordinary.

    "Russian state television defies President Putin's propaganda edict and broadcasts criticism of the war in Ukraine - with guests describing the shambolic invasion as 'like Afghanistan, but even worse'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10600711/Ukraine-war-Guests-Russian-state-TV-invasion-like-Afghanistan-worse.html
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Andy_JS said:

    Extraordinary.

    "Russian state television defies President Putin's propaganda edict and broadcasts criticism of the war in Ukraine - with guests describing the shambolic invasion as 'like Afghanistan, but even worse'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10600711/Ukraine-war-Guests-Russian-state-TV-invasion-like-Afghanistan-worse.html

    Off to the gulag for them.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,056
    philiph said:

    If and when Putin goes it will be very quick, I suspect.

    As fast as a speeding bullet?
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,056

    The constant talking up that Putin will use Chemical weapons, can we be hopeful this is laying down a red line for NATO involvement? UK and US preparing the way with this “he is planning to use chemical weapons he always does” line, to tell NATO enough is enough, now we go in. If not, why are they saying it before proof it has happened? If anything it just alarms more Ukrainians not to stay and fight?

    To make a false flag even more unbelievable to public and state opinion
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,056

    IshmaelZ said:

    Corrupt and fucking useless. The current version has the picture blanked out in best Stalinist style.


    These posts are embarrassing, even without the photo mess-up.

    It’s the FCO, not fucking Buzzfeed
    Well also never mind the embarrassment, let's not ignore the substantive point that this blokes son has been appointed to the UK legislature for sucking the cock and balls of services rendered to a former Chancellor of the exchequer and the current prime minister, and nobody seems to mind, or even have the bad taste to mention the fact

    Sucking probably the other way round come to think of it
    Have we had any comment recently from Osborne and Mandelson about all their dealings with Russian oligarchs ?
    New meaning to the term “filthy rich”
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Andy_JS said:

    Extraordinary.

    "Russian state television defies President Putin's propaganda edict and broadcasts criticism of the war in Ukraine - with guests describing the shambolic invasion as 'like Afghanistan, but even worse'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10600711/Ukraine-war-Guests-Russian-state-TV-invasion-like-Afghanistan-worse.html

    That’s good news if true, but very unlike the Mail to report on something without a video to back it up.

    Hopefully we start to see bigger holes in Putin’s propoganda machine. The journalists in Moscow know what’s going on, they know that thousands of civilians in Ukraine, and thousands of Russian soldiers, many of them teenage conscripts, are coming come in body bags.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,681

    Incredible footage from Ukraine

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gezu6A9zcLU

    The whole YouTube channel features incredible footage from the front line.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289

    Who says sports guys don’t do fluent, insightful commentary.


    Pretty Pritti looks pretty shabby.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,681
    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    edited March 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for KJH


    Mate, I could do a top 50! I love megaliths, if I go anywhere and find out there is some mysterious ancient stone monument nearby, I practically orgasm

    And now you've set me off. Here are my top ten megalithic monuments of the world


    10. Newgrange, Ireland
    9. Avebury, England
    8. Carnac, France
    7. Castlerigg, England
    6. Uragh, Ireland
    5. Callanish, Scotland
    4. Ggantija, Malta
    3. Brodgar, Orkney
    2. Stonehenge, England
    1. Gobekli Tepe, Turkey




    And I have seen them all

    This might be mis-remembered nonsense: On Orkney there are two standing stones with holes in them, miles apart.

    If you line them both up it directs you down the entrance tunnel to Maes Howe. Which is also aligned with the setting sun on the solstice, bathing the chamber in light.

    It doesn't work any more as the axis of the earth had shifted since then.
    I can well believe it. The Orcadian megaliths are amazing

    One of the many many surprises of the wonderful Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum (which I may have menshed) was discovering just how interlinked these worlds were. Skara Brae, Stonehenge, northwest France, Germany, Denmark, even Greece - they exchanged ideas, objects, memes, motifs - as they travelled easily around Europe. They wore gold hats and wolf-teeth dresses and they had fabulous mythology. And they inhabited a wholly unspoiled world, perhaps devoid of guilt

    I wonder if they were happier than us. Possibly they were
    Some people reckon a chap called Yahweh came from Judea to England to ask the Druid’s a question. “Hello Druid, son of Druid” [it may not have gone exactly like this, but similar] “can you tell me sir, before Piscean age there was no North Star, so how did your ancient builders accurately know where North was?”

    Have you come across the answer to that Leon?
    Not difficult. You wait for sunrise, on any non cloudy day of the year. You put a peg between you, and sunrise. You do the same at sunset. You halve the angle between the 2, and that is north. Or south. North stars are secondary in that you only know they *are* the north star by doing this exercise
    Bloody hell. In England you could be sitting there for days.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,193

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    Last time they had the Bald Olympics.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    Analysis of who is pushing blatant Russian lies about ‘bio labs’.
    The meeting of minds between Putin’s propagandists and the US conspiratorial right is blatant, and disturbing.

    https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1502052062519083008
    1/ This is an analysis of all accounts using the terms '#Ukraine' and 'bio labs'. I wanted to see which accounts were pushing this narrative the most, & which were the most influential. This is an analysis of around 20k Twitter interactions from approx 17k unique accounts

    The Chinese Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs also in there.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Nigelb said:

    Analysis of who is pushing blatant Russian lies about ‘bio labs’.
    The meeting of minds between Putin’s propagandists and the US conspiratorial right is blatant, and disturbing.

    https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1502052062519083008
    1/ This is an analysis of all accounts using the terms '#Ukraine' and 'bio labs'. I wanted to see which accounts were pushing this narrative the most, & which were the most influential. This is an analysis of around 20k Twitter interactions from approx 17k unique accounts

    The Chinese Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs also in there.

    It'll be interesting to see where some of the funding of the 'US conspiratorial right' comes from. The same with some of the anti-vaxxers (cough)Kennedy(cough).
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    edited March 2022

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    https://twitter.com/byKateSmith/status/1502015734871904264
    A bill in Missouri makes illegal to get an abortion if the patient has an ectopic pregnancy.

    Facts about ectopic pregnancies:
    - They’re are not viable. Full stop.
    - They’re the 1 cause of death for 1st trimester patients.

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
    Abramovich made his money buying shares in Russian companies in the 1990s.

    A simple version is that when the Soviet Union collapsed, everyone in Russia was given vouchers to buy shares in the major state companies that were being floated. Abramovich had a large team of people in Russia go around and buy up the vouchers from ordinary people at well under face value, because the ordinary people didn’t understand what they were for or what to do with them.

    It’s not particularly ethical, but then very little was ethical in 1990s Russia. Not illegal though.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,770
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    A third of the worlds population are eligible to compete.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
    Abramovich made his money buying shares in Russian companies in the 1990s.

    A simple version is that when the Soviet Union collapsed, everyone in Russia was given vouchers to buy shares in the major state companies that were being floated. Abramovich had a large team of people in Russia go around and buy up the vouchers from ordinary people at well under face value, because the ordinary people didn’t understand what they were for or what to do with them.

    It’s not particularly ethical, but then very little was ethical in 1990s Russia. Not illegal though.
    Where did he get the float to get going with that?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    A third of the worlds population are eligible to compete.
    Indeed - I have no idea where such an unpleasant post came from. It's not as if anyone is compelled to attend or take part.
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,797
    Nigelb said:

    Analysis of who is pushing blatant Russian lies about ‘bio labs’.
    The meeting of minds between Putin’s propagandists and the US conspiratorial right is blatant, and disturbing.

    https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1502052062519083008
    1/ This is an analysis of all accounts using the terms '#Ukraine' and 'bio labs'. I wanted to see which accounts were pushing this narrative the most, & which were the most influential. This is an analysis of around 20k Twitter interactions from approx 17k unique accounts

    The Chinese Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs also in there.

    We should have a consumer boycott of China - cancel them in the same way as Russia has been cancelled. They are so obviously a malign influence.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/byKateSmith/status/1502015734871904264
    A bill in Missouri makes illegal to get an abortion if the patient has an ectopic pregnancy.

    Facts about ectopic pregnancies:
    - They’re are not viable. Full stop.
    - They’re the 1 cause of death for 1st trimester patients.

    That is astonishing, even for America.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,770
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
    Abramovich made his money buying shares in Russian companies in the 1990s.

    A simple version is that when the Soviet Union collapsed, everyone in Russia was given vouchers to buy shares in the major state companies that were being floated. Abramovich had a large team of people in Russia go around and buy up the vouchers from ordinary people at well under face value, because the ordinary people didn’t understand what they were for or what to do with them.

    It’s not particularly ethical, but then very little was ethical in 1990s Russia. Not illegal though.
    He was arrested in 1992 on theft of government property.
    He bought half of Sibneft from the government for $100m when his stake was worth about $1.3bn.
    He has admitted paying billions in bribes to other oligarchs.
    He personally interviewed all of Putins first cabinet.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/chelsea-owner-admits-he-paid-out-billions-in-bribes-26459423.html
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    ‘Twas humour. And stolen from a comic I can’t remember, as well.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
    Abramovich made his money buying shares in Russian companies in the 1990s.

    A simple version is that when the Soviet Union collapsed, everyone in Russia was given vouchers to buy shares in the major state companies that were being floated. Abramovich had a large team of people in Russia go around and buy up the vouchers from ordinary people at well under face value, because the ordinary people didn’t understand what they were for or what to do with them.

    It’s not particularly ethical, but then very little was ethical in 1990s Russia. Not illegal though.
    Where did he get the float to get going with that?
    When you’re buying up dollar bills for 10 or 20 cents, your float quickly develops itself!

    His family wasn’t particularly weathly, but he studied markets and was working as a commodities trader when he saw the opportunity in buying up the share vouchers.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,193
    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/byKateSmith/status/1502015734871904264
    A bill in Missouri makes illegal to get an abortion if the patient has an ectopic pregnancy.

    Facts about ectopic pregnancies:
    - They’re are not viable. Full stop.
    - They’re the 1 cause of death for 1st trimester patients.

    If those are the facts, it is a topic I know little about, then that is a disgrace and blatantly anti women.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,986

    A third of the worlds population are eligible to compete.

    Except for some reason Canada have set their eligibility criteria so high almost nobody will qualify

    😩🥲😳 https://twitter.com/MalindiElmore/status/1501704957031976960 https://twitter.com/Airozuru/status/1501957937945849856/photo/1
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
    Abramovich made his money buying shares in Russian companies in the 1990s.

    A simple version is that when the Soviet Union collapsed, everyone in Russia was given vouchers to buy shares in the major state companies that were being floated. Abramovich had a large team of people in Russia go around and buy up the vouchers from ordinary people at well under face value, because the ordinary people didn’t understand what they were for or what to do with them.

    It’s not particularly ethical, but then very little was ethical in 1990s Russia. Not illegal though.
    Where did he get the float to get going with that?
    Reading his Wiki ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich ), it seems that he trained in oil and gas, and then was a trader for a Swiss firm. He then took advantage of perestroika and the latter schemes. I can see those earlier careers giving him access to contacts and money.

    From Wiki (and this could, of course, be biased) he seems an Alan Sugar / Richard Branson / Arthur Daley style character - a wheeler-dealer who likes business and doing deals, *mostly* staying on the right side of the law.

    But that's just Wiki. I daresay someone can give the other side.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    ‘Twas humour. And stolen from a comic I can’t remember, as well.
    Of course it was - a chance to poke fun at the British - hilarious.
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Off topic, but are there still any statistics published showing yhe number or percentage oh hospitalised covid patients who are unvaccinated?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited March 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    A third of the worlds population are eligible to compete.

    Except for some reason Canada have set their eligibility criteria so high almost nobody will qualify

    😩🥲😳 https://twitter.com/MalindiElmore/status/1501704957031976960 https://twitter.com/Airozuru/status/1501957937945849856/photo/1
    That’s nuts. Can’t they afford the cost of sending a full team, so they only want to send those guaranteed to win a medal? Not really keeping with the sprit of the ‘friendly games’.
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    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    ‘Twas humour. And stolen from a comic I can’t remember, as well.
    Of course it was - a chance to poke fun at the British - hilarious.
    I suspect it was from Henning Wehn.

    Let’s not get precious about the Commonwealth Games. I doubt many of us will be glued to it when it’s on.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    ‘Twas humour. And stolen from a comic I can’t remember, as well.
    Of course it was - a chance to poke fun at the British - hilarious.
    I suspect it was from Henning Wehn.

    Let’s not get precious about the Commonwealth Games. I doubt many of us will be glued to it when it’s on.
    Yeah let's not get precious -get nasty instead. Such a lark.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    ‘Twas humour. And stolen from a comic I can’t remember, as well.
    Of course it was - a chance to poke fun at the British - hilarious.
    I suspect it was from Henning Wehn.

    Let’s not get precious about the Commonwealth Games. I doubt many of us will be glued to it when it’s on.
    I volunteered to be a medical steward, but the in person interviews were at short notice, and on working days so had to drop out.

    The classic track and field events are always entertaining, but like the Olympics there seems to be a lot of bloat.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,056

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
    Putin owned a large minority stake in
    Millhouse Capital, Abramovich’s main vehicle
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    They are not in danger in France are they?
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A third of the worlds population are eligible to compete.

    Except for some reason Canada have set their eligibility criteria so high almost nobody will qualify

    😩🥲😳 https://twitter.com/MalindiElmore/status/1501704957031976960 https://twitter.com/Airozuru/status/1501957937945849856/photo/1
    That’s nuts. Can’t they afford the cost of sending a full team, so they only want to send those guaranteed to win a medal? Not really keeping with the sprit of the ‘friendly games’.
    Kick em out of SWIFT
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    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://twitter.com/byKateSmith/status/1502015734871904264
    A bill in Missouri makes illegal to get an abortion if the patient has an ectopic pregnancy.

    Facts about ectopic pregnancies:
    - They’re are not viable. Full stop.
    - They’re the 1 cause of death for 1st trimester patients.

    If those are the facts, it is a topic I know little about, then that is a disgrace and blatantly anti women.
    All hail Gilead. Blessed be the Fruit.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    ‘Twas humour. And stolen from a comic I can’t remember, as well.
    Of course it was - a chance to poke fun at the British - hilarious.
    I suspect it was from Henning Wehn.

    Let’s not get precious about the Commonwealth Games. I doubt many of us will be glued to it when it’s on.
    Here you go, distantly remembered:

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=henning+wehn+commonwealth+games&view=detail&mid=DB57B14728AB3955B344DB57B14728AB3955B344&FORM=VIRE
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    They are not in danger in France are they?
    Danger of death by Russians? No. But no money, no food, in a mess. Have friends and family here and we have the door firmly shut. Every other country in Europe has done the decent thing except us.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    I don't know what has happened to IanB2 but he's been posting really nasty things like this a lot recently.

    If you're around Ian, take a break and reset. It will do you some good.
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dems pave way for pact with Labour to oust Tories
    Leader Ed Davey praises Keir Starmer for transforming the largest opposition party"

    https://www.ft.com/content/544fb07c-c5c2-400f-a19a-50c9a3ebc570

    In return for PR?
    Apparently happy for a referendum on AV
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    FPT for KJH


    Mate, I could do a top 50! I love megaliths, if I go anywhere and find out there is some mysterious ancient stone monument nearby, I practically orgasm

    And now you've set me off. Here are my top ten megalithic monuments of the world


    10. Newgrange, Ireland
    9. Avebury, England
    8. Carnac, France
    7. Castlerigg, England
    6. Uragh, Ireland
    5. Callanish, Scotland
    4. Ggantija, Malta
    3. Brodgar, Orkney
    2. Stonehenge, England
    1. Gobekli Tepe, Turkey




    And I have seen them all

    Carnac is amazing. It is true evidence that quantity is a quality all of its own. You get there and go "is that it as you see a handful of standing stones from the car park, and then you realise there are more, and more and more and a creperie and more and more.

    It's gobsmacking.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    Foxy said:

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    They are not in danger in France are they?
    Danger of death by Russians? No. But no money, no food, in a mess. Have friends and family here and we have the door firmly shut. Every other country in Europe has done the decent thing except us.
    Sure, but that is how we always treat refugees.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,986

    Danger of death by Russians? No. But no money, no food, in a mess. Have friends and family here and we have the door firmly shut. Every other country in Europe has done the decent thing except us.

    The Refugee Convention is clear that everyone has the right to seek asylum. No cherry picking; no predicating it on if you can fruit pick or if you have family ties, or how you arrived, or the colour of you skin. The latest announcements still are not aligned with the Convention.
    https://twitter.com/alison_phipps/status/1502163991157559299
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    Heathener said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    I don't know what has happened to IanB2 but he's been posting really nasty things like this a lot recently.

    If you're around Ian, take a break and reset. It will do you some good.
    It seemed a joke to me and not that nasty! I doubt athletes are bursting into tears over it
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    #Russian priest arrested and prosecuted for sermon opposing #Russia war against #Ukraine and killings
    #StandWithUkraine #PutinWarCrimes #Ukraineinvasion #Burdin
    https://t.co/PM2SPwcifU https://t.co/o50PLr8Mvk
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    edited March 2022

    Foxy said:

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    They are not in danger in France are they?
    Danger of death by Russians? No. But no money, no food, in a mess. Have friends and family here and we have the door firmly shut. Every other country in Europe has done the decent thing except us.
    Our response is shameful.

    I guess Priti Patel and the Gov't are petrified that this is one of the red wall red flags. But they never seem to get it right.

    I still don't think this war is going to play out well for Boris Johnson and the tories. There is far too much dirt associated with the party over Russian money and this will come out over the months ahead and in the run up to the General Election. It's a timebomb for the tories, though I hesitate to use such language right now.

    As for Chelsea fans chanting Abramovich's name, football but particularly Premier League football, stinks. The dirty money sloshing around at the very top is another example of the stench of western corruption that laid us open to Putin's verbal diatribes (and China's). When you have Amanda Staveley questioning why Abramovich should be sanctioned, you see the merest tip of the filth pile in PL football.

    It's not just Putin's' friends' money in London, it's Saudi and Qatari. And I'm not solely blaming the tories. This took hold under that other war criminal's watch, Tony Blair.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,986
    Fun fact. Subbuteo ref 748 (Chelsea, £17.50) is the first Subbuteo team to be worth more than the actual club. https://twitter.com/SubbuteoOnline/status/1502012533410078723/photo/1
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,056
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    They are not in danger in France are they?
    Danger of death by Russians? No. But no money, no food, in a mess. Have friends and family here and we have the door firmly shut. Every other country in Europe has done the decent thing except us.
    Our response is shameful.

    I guess Priti Patel and the Gov't are petrified that this is one of the red wall red flags. But they never seem to get it right.

    I still don't think this war is going to play out well for Boris Johnson and the tories. There is far too much dirt associated with the party over Russian money and this will come out over the months ahead and in the run up to the General Election. It's a timebomb for the tories, though I hesitate to use such language right now.

    As for Chelsea fans chanting Abramovich's name, football but particularly Premier League football, stinks. The dirty money sloshing around at the very top is another example of the stench of western corruption that laid us open to Putin's verbal diatribes (and China's). When you have Amanda Staveley questioning why Abramovich should be sanctioned, you see the merest tip of the filth pile in PL football.

    It's not just Putin's' friends' money in London, it's Saudi and Qatari. And I'm not solely blaming the tories. This took hold under that other war criminal's watch, Tony Blair.
    Amanda Staveley has made her career trading off her relationships with some very interesting people
  • Options

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    Patel has been shocking but your daily diatribe does not contribute to the debate but is consistent with your anti government agenda

    Your emotive words would be valid if they were in danger but they are not as they are in a safe environment and the process is now in Gove and Harrington hands and it will step up and the numbers will rapidly rise

    I do not excuse Patel who should be on the backbenchs but suggesting they are in danger is an exaggeration

    As a matter of interest do you have a maximum number we should take and are you willing to volunteer for Gove's sponsorship visa and accommodate a couple of refugees yourself
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,986
    Might be an administrative error.

    But as screw-ups go, telling Ukrainian refugees to return to a Kyiv - a city under siege - to sort their visas so they can travel to the UK, is big.

    Even by Home Office standards.
    https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1502184765323194368
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    edited March 2022
    Anyway, I'm orrff.

    I see that Nicola Sturgeon has called for the possibility of a No Fly Zone. It's personally encouraging to see that those on the Left like me are still prepared to be courageous on behalf of Ukrainians, even if it means the ultimate sacrifice.

    I've been gobsmacked by the lack of courage of those on the right, especially those who are anti-state. But perhaps I shouldn't be. Not helping Ukraine militarily is the ultimate example of selfishness and self-centredness.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,986
    In managing both immigration and crime, the Home Office tends to view immigrants as criminals. It should be cut in two. Neither arm should be run by the incompetent Priti Patel
    https://econ.st/3hVVl0E
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    Scott_xP said:

    Might be an administrative error.

    But as screw-ups go, telling Ukrainian refugees to return to a Kyiv - a city under siege - to sort their visas so they can travel to the UK, is big.

    Even by Home Office standards.
    https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1502184765323194368

    It's just the usual Hostile Environment policy in action.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    They are not in danger in France are they?
    Danger of death by Russians? No. But no money, no food, in a mess. Have friends and family here and we have the door firmly shut. Every other country in Europe has done the decent thing except us.
    Sure, but that is how we always treat refugees.
    I know. Which in itself is appalling. This one though is where we have made such a mess of ourselves. Even right-wing media outlets and pundits are talking about our shame.

    It isn't just saying. No. Or the repeated lies where Patel said there was a centre in Calais. Then there would be. Then she wants one. Then a freephone number that isn't free or working outside the UK. Or that there are NO routes to get here legal or illegal. Its them flapping on about the terrorist threat that Ireland has presented by letting them in. Trying to link this back to the Irish border and Brexit.

    I am heartened that even right wingers have (finally) woken up to how wrong this is. Unlike some other groups fleeing war there are no suspicious looking young men. Only women and children. And we keep turning them away. Whatever happened to the country that went to war to protect women and children?
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    Heathener said:

    Anyway, I'm orrff.

    I see that Nicola Sturgeon has called for the possibility of a No Fly Zone. It's personally encouraging to see that those on the Left like me are still prepared to be courageous on behalf of Ukrainians, even if it means the ultimate sacrifice.

    I've been gobsmacked by the cowardice of those on the right, especially those who are anti-state. But perhaps I shouldn't be. Not helping Ukraine militarily is the ultimate example of selfishness and self-centredness.

    Oh sod off with your dangerous smugness. Its not cowardice its saving everyone in the UK and far beyond.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
    Putin owned a large minority stake in
    Millhouse Capital, Abramovich’s main vehicle
    His exceptional closeness to Putin, for an oligarch who is not a blatant thuggish criminal, is probably the biggest black mark against him ?

    But very few great fortunes can have been made in Putin's Russia without involvement in corruption.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    MrEd said:

    There are some clear signs that the wheels are starting to come off for Putin. When you get pundits on Russian state TV’s main show calling for the Kremlin to end the investigation and some of the oligarchs starting to break ranks (look at Vladimir Potanin’s comments on the proposal to seize foreign owned assets), there is something clearly happening.

    I hope you're right but I can't help but notice that when we do what we have done to the likes of Abramovitch, or even the Russian central bank and seize their assets this is us imposing sanctions for bad behaviour and in accordance with the law. When Russia does it with foreign companies in Russia it is apparently piracy which will result in their exclusion from the international trading system for decades as some sort of punishment for their lawlessness .

    Don't get me wrong, Putin and his henchmen deserve all they get and Russia's conduct in the Ukraine is appalling and includes many war crimes for which the actors should be punished. But the hypocrisy and the sanctimony? It doesn't feel right.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    Nice gain for the Greens in Occupied East Leicestershire:

    Last night's by-election results:
    Herts CC, Hitchin S: LD hold
    N Herts, Hitchin Highbury: LD hold
    Herefs, Bromyard W: result awaited
    Rutland, Ryhall/Casterton: Grn gain from C

    My in laws used to live in Ryhall.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    In managing both immigration and crime, the Home Office tends to view immigrants as criminals. It should be cut in two. Neither arm should be run by the incompetent Priti Patel
    https://econ.st/3hVVl0E

    One thing I can agree with you on
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,193

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    Who have we actually turned away ? Who have we actually put at risk of death.

    I agree it is a shambles for sure and something that is, quite frankly, an embarrassment. A bureaucratic mess and we need to solve it. However how are we putting people at risk of death if they are in mainland Europe ?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Scott_xP said:

    In managing both immigration and crime, the Home Office tends to view immigrants as criminals. It should be cut in two. Neither arm should be run by the incompetent Priti Patel
    https://econ.st/3hVVl0E

    The basic government assumption about all those who want to get into the country as economic immigrants, family members or refugees is that because they are foreign they are security risks looking to rip-off the taxpayer. The systems that have been put in place reflect that. The only exception to this rock-solid rule applies to the super-wealthy. They just get waved in.

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Might be an administrative error.

    But as screw-ups go, telling Ukrainian refugees to return to a Kyiv - a city under siege - to sort their visas so they can travel to the UK, is big.

    Even by Home Office standards.
    https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1502184765323194368

    It's just the usual Hostile Environment policy in action.
    Not quite - we outsourced visa management to a private company and a private company has to profiteer.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Scott_xP said:

    Danger of death by Russians? No. But no money, no food, in a mess. Have friends and family here and we have the door firmly shut. Every other country in Europe has done the decent thing except us.

    The Refugee Convention is clear that everyone has the right to seek asylum. No cherry picking; no predicating it on if you can fruit pick or if you have family ties, or how you arrived, or the colour of you skin. The latest announcements still are not aligned with the Convention.
    https://twitter.com/alison_phipps/status/1502163991157559299
    We are not saying those who come here to claim asylum cannot claim it. What we are doing is offering a faster system for those with connections. Now, you can argue that our "fast" system has not proven particularly fast and that we make the progress of those not within that system positively glacial, but accelerated systems do not breach the Convention.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,986
    Your daily reminder that all the UK has to do to get Ukrainian refugees in, and Priti Patel and her incompetent flightless monkeys at the Home Office out of their way, is introduce visa free entry...

    ... like literally everyone else in Europe.

    Watching the Home Office trying to fight decades of ingrained institutionalised reflex to try and design a visa system not premised on pain, cruelty and dissuading applicants is unbearable.

    Like when the Terminator tries to learn to smile in T2, but somehow with less humanity.


    https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1502188684946423812
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,797
    Heathener said:

    Anyway, I'm orrff.

    I see that Nicola Sturgeon has called for the possibility of a No Fly Zone. It's personally encouraging to see that those on the Left like me are still prepared to be courageous on behalf of Ukrainians, even if it means the ultimate sacrifice.

    I've been gobsmacked by the lack of courage of those on the right, especially those who are anti-state. But perhaps I shouldn't be. Not helping Ukraine militarily is the ultimate example of selfishness and self-centredness.

    Sturgeon calling for a No fly zone whilst also wanting to get rid of nuclear weapons is evidence that the SNP will just jump opportunistically on to any popular policy, without being accountable in any way for the consequences. It gives me a lot of doubts about Scottish Independence, no doubt there will be people in Scotland having the same thoughts.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    Heathener said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just realised the Commonwealth Games are being held in Birmingham this summer.

    That had totally passed me by.

    A good chance for our professional British athletes to boost their confidence by competing against postmen, office clerks and the lifeboat crew from Grenada, Mauritius and Tuvalu.
    Gosh what a nasty comment - how about turning it on its head and think of the opportunity it gives to those athletes - who may not get other opps - to play against top quality athletes from the likes of Uganda, Kenya, Canada....... and many more, as well as British athletes
    I don't know what has happened to IanB2 but he's been posting really nasty things like this a lot recently.

    If you're around Ian, take a break and reset. It will do you some good.
    How bizarre. When you look back at some of the offensive stuff posted on here, having a knock at the Commonwealth Games is truly small beer.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for KJH


    Mate, I could do a top 50! I love megaliths, if I go anywhere and find out there is some mysterious ancient stone monument nearby, I practically orgasm

    And now you've set me off. Here are my top ten megalithic monuments of the world


    10. Newgrange, Ireland
    9. Avebury, England
    8. Carnac, France
    7. Castlerigg, England
    6. Uragh, Ireland
    5. Callanish, Scotland
    4. Ggantija, Malta
    3. Brodgar, Orkney
    2. Stonehenge, England
    1. Gobekli Tepe, Turkey


    And I have seen them all

    Carnac is amazing. It is true evidence that quantity is a quality all of its own. You get there and go "is that it as you see a handful of standing stones from the car park, and then you realise there are more, and more and more and a creperie and more and more.

    It's gobsmacking.
    I'd like to go there, and Callanish.

    But for me, the best is Nine Ladies Stone Circle in the Peak District. A sublime setting, even if the stones are tiny.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Ladies
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    edited March 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dems pave way for pact with Labour to oust Tories
    Leader Ed Davey praises Keir Starmer for transforming the largest opposition party"

    https://www.ft.com/content/544fb07c-c5c2-400f-a19a-50c9a3ebc570

    In return for PR?
    Apparently happy for a referendum on AV
    In which case Ed Davey is stupid but it's actually very simple

    Labour / Lib Dem / Greens are 55-60% of the vote
    Tories / Right wing protest party are 40-45% of the vote.

    Sort out a form of PR and it's very difficult for a Tory party with a right wing agenda to take power...
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,797
    I have come to the conclusion that the best policy in Ukraine is to make things as difficult as possible for the Russians on every possible level. Militarily, economically, politically. The aim should be the ruin of this dictatorship.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    DavidL said:

    MrEd said:

    There are some clear signs that the wheels are starting to come off for Putin. When you get pundits on Russian state TV’s main show calling for the Kremlin to end the investigation and some of the oligarchs starting to break ranks (look at Vladimir Potanin’s comments on the proposal to seize foreign owned assets), there is something clearly happening.

    I hope you're right but I can't help but notice that when we do what we have done to the likes of Abramovitch, or even the Russian central bank and seize their assets this is us imposing sanctions for bad behaviour and in accordance with the law. When Russia does it with foreign companies in Russia it is apparently piracy which will result in their exclusion from the international trading system for decades as some sort of punishment for their lawlessness .

    Don't get me wrong, Putin and his henchmen deserve all they get and Russia's conduct in the Ukraine is appalling and includes many war crimes for which the actors should be punished. But the hypocrisy and the sanctimony? It doesn't feel right.
    I agree with you, we on this side of the fence need to be careful (and the same goes with Ukraine with its passing of a Bill to seize all Russian property in the country).
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    Nice gain for the Greens in Occupied East Leicestershire:

    Last night's by-election results:
    Herts CC, Hitchin S: LD hold
    N Herts, Hitchin Highbury: LD hold
    Herefs, Bromyard W: result awaited
    Rutland, Ryhall/Casterton: Grn gain from C

    My in laws used to live in Ryhall.

    This appeared on my feed. The Cons bloke spent 35 years flying RAF helicopters but you wouldn't necessarily have backed him to make it to next week. Re the Grn candidate if they were vaguely young and healthy might have given s better chance of continuity.

    Edit: or it could have been @Dura_Ace making it a fixed vs rotor wing competition.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chris Bryant
    @RhonddaBryant

    I have never known so much hatred as I have received in recent days from Chelsea fans over the sanctioning of Putin’s long-term mate Roman Abramovich. Sorry, but Abramovich washed his dirty money clean through sport."

    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1502056982353698819

    A question: it look stinky, but is Abramovich's money actually 'dirty', as in illegal? Morality and money are a very different question...
    Putin owned a large minority stake in
    Millhouse Capital, Abramovich’s main vehicle
    His exceptional closeness to Putin, for an oligarch who is not a blatant thuggish criminal, is probably the biggest black mark against him ?

    But very few great fortunes can have been made in Putin's Russia without involvement in corruption.
    I would have thought no great fortune can be made without either innovation or corruption.

    As there is little innovation in Russia then all the fortunes are coming from the latter.
  • Options
    JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 651
    Foxy said:

    Nice gain for the Greens in Occupied East Leicestershire:

    Last night's by-election results:
    Herts CC, Hitchin S: LD hold
    N Herts, Hitchin Highbury: LD hold
    Herefs, Bromyard W: result awaited
    Rutland, Ryhall/Casterton: Grn gain from C

    My in laws used to live in Ryhall.

    Long Live Free Rutland !!
  • Options
    Taz said:

    Morning all! Another day of our disgrace as we continue to turn away women and children fleeing death.

    Who have we actually turned away ? Who have we actually put at risk of death.

    I agree it is a shambles for sure and something that is, quite frankly, an embarrassment. A bureaucratic mess and we need to solve it. However how are we putting people at risk of death if they are in mainland Europe ?
    Who have we turned away? Swathes of examples. Many posted on here by Scott.

    Are they are risk of death by Russians in France? No. Does that mean we are right to have an absolute blockade on Urkainian refugees? No. Everyone else in Europe has opened their doors. We put in a bullshit visa scheme and they deny people the ability access it (again, swathes of examples posted online where you can't get appointments or even where the place to get appointments is a figment of Patel's deranged smirk).

    We used to be a decent country. What happened to us?
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Interesting thread - Russia really doesn't seem to be getting many places:

    https://twitter.com/JominiW/status/1502175936166326272
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    DavidL said:

    MrEd said:

    There are some clear signs that the wheels are starting to come off for Putin. When you get pundits on Russian state TV’s main show calling for the Kremlin to end the investigation and some of the oligarchs starting to break ranks (look at Vladimir Potanin’s comments on the proposal to seize foreign owned assets), there is something clearly happening.

    I hope you're right but I can't help but notice that when we do what we have done to the likes of Abramovitch, or even the Russian central bank and seize their assets this is us imposing sanctions for bad behaviour and in accordance with the law. When Russia does it with foreign companies in Russia it is apparently piracy which will result in their exclusion from the international trading system for decades as some sort of punishment for their lawlessness .

    Don't get me wrong, Putin and his henchmen deserve all they get and Russia's conduct in the Ukraine is appalling and includes many war crimes for which the actors should be punished. But the hypocrisy and the sanctimony? It doesn't feel right.
    To say nothing of the military action with precious little justification which we engage in on the one hand and condemn ferociously on the other.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Nice gain for the Greens in Occupied East Leicestershire:

    Last night's by-election results:
    Herts CC, Hitchin S: LD hold
    N Herts, Hitchin Highbury: LD hold
    Herefs, Bromyard W: result awaited
    Rutland, Ryhall/Casterton: Grn gain from C

    My in laws used to live in Ryhall.

    This appeared on my feed. The Cons bloke spent 35 years flying RAF helicopters but you wouldn't necessarily have backed him to make it to next week. Re the Grn candidate if they were vaguely young and healthy might have given s better chance of continuity.

    Edit: or it could have been @Dura_Ace making it a fixed vs rotor wing competition.
    Rutland was Green 281, Con 268
    The two Hitchins were LD 1,238, Con 450 and LD 2,401, Con 690.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for KJH


    Mate, I could do a top 50! I love megaliths, if I go anywhere and find out there is some mysterious ancient stone monument nearby, I practically orgasm

    And now you've set me off. Here are my top ten megalithic monuments of the world


    10. Newgrange, Ireland
    9. Avebury, England
    8. Carnac, France
    7. Castlerigg, England
    6. Uragh, Ireland
    5. Callanish, Scotland
    4. Ggantija, Malta
    3. Brodgar, Orkney
    2. Stonehenge, England
    1. Gobekli Tepe, Turkey




    And I have seen them all

    This might be mis-remembered nonsense: On Orkney there are two standing stones with holes in them, miles apart.

    If you line them both up it directs you down the entrance tunnel to Maes Howe. Which is also aligned with the setting sun on the solstice, bathing the chamber in light.

    It doesn't work any more as the axis of the earth had shifted since then.
    I can well believe it. The Orcadian megaliths are amazing

    One of the many many surprises of the wonderful Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum (which I may have menshed) was discovering just how interlinked these worlds were. Skara Brae, Stonehenge, northwest France, Germany, Denmark, even Greece - they exchanged ideas, objects, memes, motifs - as they travelled easily around Europe. They wore gold hats and wolf-teeth dresses and they had fabulous mythology. And they inhabited a wholly unspoiled world, perhaps devoid of guilt

    I wonder if they were happier than us. Possibly they were
    Some people reckon a chap called Yahweh came from Judea to England to ask the Druid’s a question. “Hello Druid, son of Druid” [it may not have gone exactly like this, but similar] “can you tell me sir, before Piscean age there was no North Star, so how did your ancient builders accurately know where North was?”

    Have you come across the answer to that Leon?
    Not difficult. You wait for sunrise, on any non cloudy day of the year. You put a peg between you, and sunrise. You do the same at sunset. You halve the angle between the 2, and that is north. Or south. North stars are secondary in that you only know they *are* the north star by doing this exercise
    Bloody hell. In England you could be sitting there for days.
    Today in south Devon, anything flimsier than a tree trunk would have either blown or washed away. It's foul out there.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,292
    Scott_xP said:

    Might be an administrative error.

    But as screw-ups go, telling Ukrainian refugees to return to a Kyiv - a city under siege - to sort their visas so they can travel to the UK, is big.

    Even by Home Office standards.
    https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1502184765323194368

    They have an automated system to send out reminder emails for appointments. So far, so mundane. Seems obvious that when they closed the centre that would have marked all the appointments as cancelled, but it's possible that would have had negative consequences for the status of people's visa applications, depending on how the system was designed.

    It's not so much an error, as that when you design an automated computer system to run things, and you come across a scenario that you didn't anticipate - like a Russian invasion of Ukraine - the computer system has no awareness of this, and so will blithely do exactly what is was set-up to do.

    Clearly, also, all their development resource is going to be focused on setting up the systems to support the new visa procedures.

    The error is with the decisions made by those who have the most discretion to decide what to do - and that would be PM Boris Johnson and Home Secretary Priti Patel.

    When I read the headline I thought that perhaps someone's application for a visa had been rejected for lack of evidence of residency, and perhaps an actual person had told them to return to retrieve that evidence. An automated email is a lot less shocking.
  • Options
    Off-topic but related. Have decided to preempt the work contract negotiations dragging on by ordering a Tesla Model Y, which should be my company car. Test drives in a 3 then a Y convinced me its the right car to get, a world apart from out long departed Nissan Leaf.

    Why related? Because the surge in oil prices has seen a surge in demand for EVs. Tesla put a £2k price increase onto the 3 yesterday with delivery times now out to next winter. No price rise yet on the Y (with the price gap to a 3 now only £3k) and delivery in the summer.

    So screw it. Only staked £100 on a non-refundable deposit, and the used value of my PHEV Outlander remains robust as people try to find ways to cut their fuel bills.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,292
    Scott_xP said:

    In managing both immigration and crime, the Home Office tends to view immigrants as criminals. It should be cut in two. Neither arm should be run by the incompetent Priti Patel
    https://econ.st/3hVVl0E

    How many departments can we create out of the Home Office?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    darkage said:

    I have come to the conclusion that the best policy in Ukraine is to make things as difficult as possible for the Russians on every possible level. Militarily, economically, politically. The aim should be the ruin of this dictatorship.

    While condemnation of Russia around Europe, North America (outside the alt right) and other developed counties is high, that is not universal. China and India are leaning pro-Russia, and much of Africa too. This poll in the Economist of Africa is sobering.


  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,003
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Nice gain for the Greens in Occupied East Leicestershire:

    Last night's by-election results:
    Herts CC, Hitchin S: LD hold
    N Herts, Hitchin Highbury: LD hold
    Herefs, Bromyard W: result awaited
    Rutland, Ryhall/Casterton: Grn gain from C

    My in laws used to live in Ryhall.

    This appeared on my feed. The Cons bloke spent 35 years flying RAF helicopters but you wouldn't necessarily have backed him to make it to next week. Re the Grn candidate if they were vaguely young and healthy might have given s better chance of continuity.

    Edit: or it could have been @Dura_Ace making it a fixed vs rotor wing competition.
    I flew both. 550 hours in the Lynx - the Porsche 911 of helicopters. Easy to drive fast. Very dangerous to drive very fast.

    35 years is 11 or 12 consecutive flying tours which is some fucking going and shows he is a complete master at political lobbying and trading influence. He's probably wasted in local politics.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    edited March 2022

    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for KJH


    Mate, I could do a top 50! I love megaliths, if I go anywhere and find out there is some mysterious ancient stone monument nearby, I practically orgasm

    And now you've set me off. Here are my top ten megalithic monuments of the world


    10. Newgrange, Ireland
    9. Avebury, England
    8. Carnac, France
    7. Castlerigg, England
    6. Uragh, Ireland
    5. Callanish, Scotland
    4. Ggantija, Malta
    3. Brodgar, Orkney
    2. Stonehenge, England
    1. Gobekli Tepe, Turkey




    And I have seen them all

    This might be mis-remembered nonsense: On Orkney there are two standing stones with holes in them, miles apart.

    If you line them both up it directs you down the entrance tunnel to Maes Howe. Which is also aligned with the setting sun on the solstice, bathing the chamber in light.

    It doesn't work any more as the axis of the earth had shifted since then.
    I can well believe it. The Orcadian megaliths are amazing

    One of the many many surprises of the wonderful Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum (which I may have menshed) was discovering just how interlinked these worlds were. Skara Brae, Stonehenge, northwest France, Germany, Denmark, even Greece - they exchanged ideas, objects, memes, motifs - as they travelled easily around Europe. They wore gold hats and wolf-teeth dresses and they had fabulous mythology. And they inhabited a wholly unspoiled world, perhaps devoid of guilt

    I wonder if they were happier than us. Possibly they were
    Some people reckon a chap called Yahweh came from Judea to England to ask the Druid’s a question. “Hello Druid, son of Druid” [it may not have gone exactly like this, but similar] “can you tell me sir, before Piscean age there was no North Star, so how did your ancient builders accurately know where North was?”

    Have you come across the answer to that Leon?
    Not difficult. You wait for sunrise, on any non cloudy day of the year. You put a peg between you, and sunrise. You do the same at sunset. You halve the angle between the 2, and that is north. Or south. North stars are secondary in that you only know they *are* the north star by doing this exercise
    Bloody hell. In England you could be sitting there for days.
    Today in south Devon, anything flimsier than a tree trunk would have either blown or washed away. It's foul out there.
    Same here. Visibility out to see is probably half a mile, and even our modest local hill is almost in the cloud. Windy and wet. The dog is looking glum at probably not getting to chase the ball about the park this morning. We'll have to watch Crufts Live again.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Might be an administrative error.

    But as screw-ups go, telling Ukrainian refugees to return to a Kyiv - a city under siege - to sort their visas so they can travel to the UK, is big.

    Even by Home Office standards.
    https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1502184765323194368

    It's just the usual Hostile Environment policy in action.
    Not quite - we outsourced visa management to a private company and a private company has to profiteer.
    We're far from the only country to have done that.
  • Options
    Applicant said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Might be an administrative error.

    But as screw-ups go, telling Ukrainian refugees to return to a Kyiv - a city under siege - to sort their visas so they can travel to the UK, is big.

    Even by Home Office standards.
    https://twitter.com/rachaelvenables/status/1502184765323194368

    It's just the usual Hostile Environment policy in action.
    Not quite - we outsourced visa management to a private company and a private company has to profiteer.
    We're far from the only country to have done that.
    I have no issue with the private contractor. They fulfil the terms of their contract. It is the person setting the contract that is the problem here.

    Anyone on here still defending Patel and what she is doing?
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:

    Nice gain for the Greens in Occupied East Leicestershire:

    Last night's by-election results:
    Herts CC, Hitchin S: LD hold
    N Herts, Hitchin Highbury: LD hold
    Herefs, Bromyard W: result awaited
    Rutland, Ryhall/Casterton: Grn gain from C

    My in laws used to live in Ryhall.

    But, Rutland is not Occupied Leicestershire. It was (mainly) a detached portion of Nottinghamshire.

    "The north-western part of the county of Rutland was recorded as Rutland, a detached part of Nottinghamshire, in the Domesday Book; the south-eastern part as the wapentake of Wicelsea in Northamptonshire. " [ From wiki]

    Rutland is Occupied Nottinghamshire (or in the south Occupied Northants).

    Leicestershire's claim to Rutland is very recent -- it only dates from 1 April 1974.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    edited March 2022
    A
    Scott_xP said:

    Your daily reminder that all the UK has to do to get Ukrainian refugees in, and Priti Patel and her incompetent flightless monkeys at the Home Office out of their way, is introduce visa free entry...

    ... like literally everyone else in Europe.

    Watching the Home Office trying to fight decades of ingrained institutionalised reflex to try and design a visa system not premised on pain, cruelty and dissuading applicants is unbearable.

    Like when the Terminator tries to learn to smile in T2, but somehow with less humanity.


    https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1502188684946423812

    I think "flightless monkeys" is a little unfair. Civil servants serve their ministers, and I'm sure (given the demographics in London) they will be acting very much against their own instincts on this.

    I think someone pointed out that the HO had far too many, and conflicting, objectives. Instead of rivalry with other departments, you have senior civil servants fighting each other within the same building. Counter-terror v Refugees, etc.

    What is inexcusable is not getting a plan in place when the intelligence cane through on the invasion. Did they get the info? Did someone think to get a plan ready for the Minister? Did someone phone the RAF/Army/FCO/BA and see about getting boots on the ground in Poland? Did we anticipate the "no men out" policy?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,706
    No (real) change there then…..

    ‘EU leaders also pledged to increase defence expenditures — but they will not give a specific amount during the summit, or make an overall pledge to reach the..2 percent of GDP long sought by the United States and Nato’ and which many of them signed up to

    https://twitter.com/anandMenon1/status/1502196184995270659
This discussion has been closed.