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Final reminder: PB’s 18th Birthday Party – Wednesday 6.30pm – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,610
edited March 2022 in General
imageFinal reminder: PB’s 18th Birthday Party – Wednesday 6.30pm – politicalbetting.com

Thanks to the Smarkets betting exchange for hosting the 18th birthday party for the site at their offices in the scenic setting of St Katherine Docks in London.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,394
    edited February 2022
    Maybe the 17-0 scoreboard make England braver

    First like England. Till `springtime in Paris
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    On sera la.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,761
    I would love to come, but it's just impossible for me to get to London on a Wednesday night. A Thursday or a Friday would have been different.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,251
    Ash Wednesday so I'm required on service duty. Shame. Have a good one.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    El_Capitano said:

    Ash Wednesday so I'm required on service duty. Shame. Have a good one.

    Shit. Does Lent begin on or after Wednesday?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    IshmaelZ said:

    El_Capitano said:

    Ash Wednesday so I'm required on service duty. Shame. Have a good one.

    Shit. Does Lent begin on or after Wednesday?
    On Wednesday.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,092
    Gallowgate said:

    I would love to come, but it's just impossible for me to get to London on a Wednesday night. A Thursday or a Friday would have been different.

    Thanks for sharing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,761
    Taz said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I would love to come, but it's just impossible for me to get to London on a Wednesday night. A Thursday or a Friday would have been different.

    Thanks for sharing.
    You are very welcome.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    Alas I won't be able to make it but you all have fun there.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,394
    MoonRabbit said:

    Maybe the 17-0 scoreboard make England braver

    First like England. Till `springtime in Paris

    Nope. Still not out second gear England. Only got a lead through grinding the gearbox. 🙄
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,092
    MoonRabbit said:

    Maybe the 17-0 scoreboard make England braver

    First like England. Till `springtime in Paris

    Yup, France look really decent.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,925
    edited February 2022
    Won't be able to make it as I'm juggling holiday & paternity in May as it is, so I hope everyone has a great time
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,194
    Been pretty busy these past few days so sadly won't be able to make this. Enjoy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    Fuck's sake.

    Come on Vlad, nuke Wales now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Hungary will support all European Union sanctions against Russia and will not block anything, Prime Minister Viktor Orban said on Saturday, speaking on the Ukrainian-Hungarian border.

    "Hungary made clear that we support all the sanctions, so we will block nothing, so what the prime ministers of the European Union are able to agree, we accept it and we support it," he told reporters in English.

    "This is the time to be united, it's a war," he said, adding that peace efforts were the most important.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungary-wont-block-any-sanctions-against-russia-pm-orban-says-2022-02-26/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,550
    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Pull your finger out Germany - and get those 500 Stingers there tonight.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,303
    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Finally and welcome
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,442
    Incredible scoop by @bbcrussian here, revealing that Chechen dictator Ramzan Kadyrov was one of few Russian officials informed about war well ahead of time. Up to 10,000 of Kadyrov's forces currently deployed in Ukraine. https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1497632971548856322
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,761
    Looks like Germany is finally providing Ukraine with weapons.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,303
    edited February 2022
    Gallowgate said:

    Looks like Germany is finally providing Ukraine with weapons.

    With 27 countries now supplying weapons to Ukraine, Russia is de facto fighting NATO weaponry
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    Scott_xP said:

    Incredible scoop by @bbcrussian here, revealing that Chechen dictator Ramzan Kadyrov was one of few Russian officials informed about war well ahead of time. Up to 10,000 of Kadyrov's forces currently deployed in Ukraine. https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1497632971548856322

    Not your wet teenage forced conscripts; rather, a particularly nasty bunch of bastards. Hopefully the Ukrainians slaughter as many of them as possible.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,303
    edited February 2022
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Incredible scoop by @bbcrussian here, revealing that Chechen dictator Ramzan Kadyrov was one of few Russian officials informed about war well ahead of time. Up to 10,000 of Kadyrov's forces currently deployed in Ukraine. https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1497632971548856322

    Not your wet teenage forced conscripts; rather, a particularly nasty bunch of bastards. Hopefully the Ukrainians slaughter as many of them as possible.
    All of them
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    Better late than never.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,761
    Worrying Twitter posts about Russia targeting Ukrainian nuclear power stations..
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,550
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Finally and welcome
    The snow globe of settled international understandings has been given a vigorous shake.

    It does look like everybody bar Russia and Belarus now wants to see Ukraine come through - and will do whatever they can to deliver.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    williamglenn said:

    Hungary will support all European Union sanctions against Russia and will not block anything, Prime Minister Viktor Orban said on Saturday, speaking on the Ukrainian-Hungarian border.

    "Hungary made clear that we support all the sanctions, so we will block nothing, so what the prime ministers of the European Union are able to agree, we accept it and we support it," he told reporters in English.

    "This is the time to be united, it's a war," he said, adding that peace efforts were the most important.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungary-wont-block-any-sanctions-against-russia-pm-orban-says-2022-02-26/

    One reads elsewhere that Putin asked Kazakhstan to send troops. They refused, and declined to recognise the Donbas puppet statelets for good measure.

    He's running out of mates, and I doubt that the likes of Iran, Cuba and Venezuela are going to be of very much use in this fight.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    Gallowgate said:

    Worrying Twitter posts about Russia targeting Ukrainian nuclear power stations..

    If those mad bastards precipitate another Chernobyl it will send a cloud of radioactive shit all round the world. Even Xi won't want anything to do with them after that.

    It would also arguably constitute an act of war against the remainder of Europe.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,978
    Happy 18th birthday, my employer will be providing my wining and dining elsewhere in the city that evening but hope you all have fun.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    edited February 2022
    Farooq said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Worrying Twitter posts about Russia targeting Ukrainian nuclear power stations..

    I'd sure hate to live in a country downwind from that. [Checks map]. Oh.
    It'll be fine, we survived the last time there were nuclear accidents in Ukraine, but more importantly, we'll get sequels to the great drama series that was Chernobyl.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,174
    edited February 2022
    Farooq said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Worrying Twitter posts about Russia targeting Ukrainian nuclear power stations..

    I'd sure hate to live in a country downwind from that. [Checks map]. Oh.
    At the moment, the Balkans and Italy are downwind. Plus Romania and Hungary.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,442
    On the highway out of Kyiv - the Ukrainians have ripped down the road signs so the Russians get lost and put up another one that says "good luck"
    https://twitter.com/JamesERothwell/status/1497614678377349120

    My Ukrainian friend (currently hiding in a bomb shelter in Kharkiv) explains that the Ukrainian phrase "Good Luck" is a well known visual pun in Russian translation

    In Ukrainian: НЕХАЙ ЩАСТИТЬ = Good Luck

    In Russian: НЕХУЙ ШАСТАТЬ = (a v rude version of) Please Go Away
    #Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/StewartWood/status/1497625200057364483
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,087
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Farooq said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Worrying Twitter posts about Russia targeting Ukrainian nuclear power stations..

    I'd sure hate to live in a country downwind from that. [Checks map]. Oh.
    It'll be fine, we survived the last time there were nuclear accidents in Ukraine, but more importantly, we'll get sequels to the great drama series that was Chernobyl.
    Chernobyl 2: This Time It's Personal
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    Farooq said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    .

    Farooq said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Worrying Twitter posts about Russia targeting Ukrainian nuclear power stations..

    I'd sure hate to live in a country downwind from that. [Checks map]. Oh.
    It'll be fine, we survived the last time there were nuclear accidents in Ukraine, but more importantly think about, we'll get sequels to the great drama series that was Chernobyl.
    Still haven't watched it, so no spoilers please. I'm guessing the save the day in the nick of time and then everyone goes home and has a nice bowl of borscht.
    Oh see it, it is one of the greatest shows in the history of television.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    On the highway out of Kyiv - the Ukrainians have ripped down the road signs so the Russians get lost and put up another one that says "good luck"
    https://twitter.com/JamesERothwell/status/1497614678377349120

    My Ukrainian friend (currently hiding in a bomb shelter in Kharkiv) explains that the Ukrainian phrase "Good Luck" is a well known visual pun in Russian translation

    In Ukrainian: НЕХАЙ ЩАСТИТЬ = Good Luck

    In Russian: НЕХУЙ ШАСТАТЬ = (a v rude version of) Please Go Away
    #Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/StewartWood/status/1497625200057364483

    A bit mealy mouthed?

    НЕХУЙ ШАСТАТЬ = fuck you says google translate
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,442
    🔴 EXCLUSIVE: Thousands of Russians are trying to reach the United States to claim political asylum and avoid being drafted to the army

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/26/thousands-russians-flee-us-escape-conscription-amid-ukraine/
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,092
    Scott_xP said:

    On the highway out of Kyiv - the Ukrainians have ripped down the road signs so the Russians get lost and put up another one that says "good luck"
    https://twitter.com/JamesERothwell/status/1497614678377349120

    My Ukrainian friend (currently hiding in a bomb shelter in Kharkiv) explains that the Ukrainian phrase "Good Luck" is a well known visual pun in Russian translation

    In Ukrainian: НЕХАЙ ЩАСТИТЬ = Good Luck

    In Russian: НЕХУЙ ШАСТАТЬ = (a v rude version of) Please Go Away
    #Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/StewartWood/status/1497625200057364483

    It’s like the episode of dads army where Godfrey made a sign for Eastgate.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,550
    Oh FFS.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    If Wales win this match I will give up following/watching Rugby Union forever.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    Been pretty busy these past few days so sadly won't be able to make this. Enjoy.

    I had you down as a Londoner? If I can make it from nearly Cornwall..;
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    Flatlander said:

    Farooq said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Worrying Twitter posts about Russia targeting Ukrainian nuclear power stations..

    I'd sure hate to live in a country downwind from that. [Checks map]. Oh.
    At the moment, the Balkans and Italy are downwind. Plus Romania and Hungary.
    No Christmas card for Vlad from Viktor this year, then.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    BREAKING: Ukrainian presidential adviser says about 3,500 Russian troops have been killed and injured so far in war against Ukraine, @Reuters is reporting.

    It's not immediately possible to independently verify such figures

    Adviser also says Russian attack on Kyiv isn't advancing

    https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1497642577260122116
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,411
    I'm hoping to make it - what's the latest I can send an email to Smarkets?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    And doubtless the UK will have to be shamed into helping the Ukrainian refugees in due course.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,761
    Rugby is just penalty after penalty
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,550
    Highly unlikely to make it up from Devon - have a great birthday, pb.com. Will there be cake?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    MarqueeMark said:

    Highly unlikely to make it up from Devon - have a great birthday, pb.com. Will there be cake?

    Only if the birthday party was held in Number 10.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,092
    pigeon said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    And doubtless the UK will have to be shamed into helping the Ukrainian refugees in due course.
    As we should. My local council will be contacting the govt to see what we can do to help and if we can take people.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    I'm hoping to make it - what's the latest I can send an email to Smarkets?

    All we know is that there's still no contact with the colony and that a xenomorph may be involved.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,988
    Have fun all. Sorry I can't make it.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,760
    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,756
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    BREAKING: Ukrainian presidential adviser says about 3,500 Russian troops have been killed and injured so far in war against Ukraine, @Reuters is reporting.

    It's not immediately possible to independently verify such figures

    Adviser also says Russian attack on Kyiv isn't advancing

    https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1497642577260122116

    If true that’s about the same as the total number of coalition deaths in Afghanistan for the whole period of the occupation.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,442
    NEW: Abramovich announces he is "giving trustees of Chelsea’s charitable Foundation the stewardship and care of Chelsea FC".

    Statement from Club Owner Roman Abramovich https://link.chelseafc.com/1WUW/e1f594e2 via @ChelseaFC
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,051
    darkage said:

    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.

    Whilst I feel some sympathy for the young Russians being sent to the deaths, we should not shy away from the fact that this is war and we very much know which side we're on.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 787
    Gallowgate said:

    Rugby is just penalty after penalty

    Apart from the 4 tries.....
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,511
    edited February 2022
    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    I'm not sure Germany and Italy having a different point of view always works out well.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,930
    tlg86 said:

    darkage said:

    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.

    Whilst I feel some sympathy for the young Russians being sent to the deaths, we should not shy away from the fact that this is war and we very much know which side we're on.
    They might be conscripts, but soldiers are normally reckoned fair game. The Ukies need to kill as many Moskali as they can.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,930
    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    Fuck shit. Uncle Vova needs a bullet in the back of the head.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,243
    edited February 2022
    Interesting comment from Orban on BBC - one might read it as meaning his usual methods are indeed just seeking to be 'clever', even as now is not the time for it.

    On a visit to Hungary's eastern border with Ukraine, where a steady stream of refugees are crossing, Orban said all European countries, including Hungary, condemned Russia.

    “This is not the time to be clever, this is time to be united. It's a war and we have to get the situation back to prior to the war and restore the peace,” he said
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,168
    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    I think describing Poland and Estonia as ultra hawks is a little inaccurate.

    More like, they are next on the list, and know it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,794
    I never want to sit through another last 5 minutes of an England game like that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,182
    Scott_xP said:

    Incredible scoop by @bbcrussian here, revealing that Chechen dictator Ramzan Kadyrov was one of few Russian officials informed about war well ahead of time. Up to 10,000 of Kadyrov's forces currently deployed in Ukraine. https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1497632971548856322

    Can we have this piece printed up and framed and then sent to Nadine's office so she doesn't forget why BBC's soft power is world beating and worth supporting?

    Just a thought.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,051
    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    Surely it depends on the motivation of the countries. If it's "our we sure this is a good idea?", then fine. But I think it's all about self interest, I'm afraid.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,243
    edited February 2022
    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    Depending on how swiftly a decision is needed, slight delay is not usually a problem. There was some EU summit last year, or maybe the year before, which went on longer than usual because clearly there was more disagreement that needed to be ironed out. It seemed to me a good thing, as it shouldn't be the case that every summit has already managed to work every little detail out.

    That said, some things are pretty black and white and the reasons for seeking to introduce shares of grey are not all sound.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,358
    Gallowgate said:

    Rugby is just penalty after penalty

    Union.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    darkage said:

    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.

    It depends very much who you are talking about. I wouldn't say I "glorify" death at all, but there are a lot of truly vile people on the Russian side that the world would be better off without.

    There's no point in being wet about this. Putin's death, for example, would be a blessing for humanity.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,168
    Gallowgate said:

    Worrying Twitter posts about Russia targeting Ukrainian nuclear power stations..


    Cutting off power and I bet Putin believes that the Ukraine wants to try to make nukes again. He would, after all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,536
    'Need a tow back to Russia?' Ukrainians taunt soldiers after their tank runs out of fuel on its way to Kyiv

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10554929/Video-claims-Ukrainians-mocking-Russian-tank-stuck-without-fuel-road-Kyiv.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    Jordan Pickford is awesome, never doubted him.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,756
    kle4 said:

    Interesting comment from Orban on BBC - one might read it as meaning his usual methods are indeed just seeking to be 'clever', even as now is not the time for it.

    On a visit to Hungary's eastern border with Ukraine, where a steady stream of refugees are crossing, Orban said all European countries, including Hungary, condemned Russia.

    “This is not the time to be clever, this is time to be united. It's a war and we have to get the situation back to prior to the war and restore the peace,” he said

    Of course Orban has a tight election coming up and I’m not sure a pro-Russian stance right now would help him one bit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    DougSeal said:

    I never want to sit through another last 5 minutes of an England game like that.

    Same.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,394
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    If Wales win this match I will give up following/watching Rugby Union forever.

    Sack Jones in the morning imo. No matter how close to the World Cup. Three games in and we hsvn’t performed yet. 😒

    Second rate. Hashtag going backwards
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,988
    Gallowgate said:

    Rugby is just penalty after penalty

    Entirely unconvincing English performance. It's like they turned it on and off.

    If Wales hadn't conceded so many penalties they'd have won, and deserved to win.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    Parsing that statement, Roman Abramovich hasn't handed over ownership of Chelsea has he?

    This looks like some PR bullshit.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    tlg86 said:

    darkage said:

    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.

    Whilst I feel some sympathy for the young Russians being sent to the deaths, we should not shy away from the fact that this is war and we very much know which side we're on.
    But we are not really being confronted with difficult decisions, in the way that people in Russia and Ukraine are, so this type of armchair commentry is problematic and distasteful. I think death in this conflict on both sides is unavoidable, but not something to celebrate. You have to hope that the effects are mitigated, by adherance to things like the Geneva convention.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    JohnLilburne said:

    tlg86 said:

    darkage said:

    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.

    Whilst I feel some sympathy for the young Russians being sent to the deaths, we should not shy away from the fact that this is war and we very much know which side we're on.
    They might be conscripts, but soldiers are normally reckoned fair game. The Ukies need to kill as many Moskali as they can.
    Not a word I knew till 2 minutes ago, but apparently used only as an ethnic slur. And what is this "normally considered fair game" shit? I mean, yes, we are all on the Ukr side, but you sound like a Victorian gent reading the ticker in his club and hoping the North is giving the niggers a dam' good pasting.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,303
    Breaking

    Abramovich hands over his stewardship and care of Chelsea to the trustees of Chelsea charitable foundation
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,988
    JohnLilburne said:

    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    Fuck shit. Uncle Vova needs a bullet in the back of the head.
    Yes, that's where I'm at: I want him killed.

    The world will be safer without him but the transition to a saner Russia afterwards is important too.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    Malmesbury said:

    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    I think describing Poland and Estonia as ultra hawks is a little inaccurate.

    More like, they are next on the list, and know it.
    Estonia today banned Aeroflot from its airspace. Not too much of a detour on its own, though.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,511
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DougSeal said:

    I never want to sit through another last 5 minutes of an England game like that.

    Same.
    It's a lot better than a very similar last 5 minutes when they score.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,988
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    BREAKING: Ukrainian presidential adviser says about 3,500 Russian troops have been killed and injured so far in war against Ukraine, @Reuters is reporting.

    It's not immediately possible to independently verify such figures

    Adviser also says Russian attack on Kyiv isn't advancing

    https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1497642577260122116

    I think the gloves are about to come off with artillery/rocket artillery.

    But, I think that just digs an even deeper political hole for Putin.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,051
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Parsing that statement, Roman Abramovich hasn't handed over ownership of Chelsea has he?

    This looks like some PR bullshit.

    Yeah, I think he's made things worse for Chelsea.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,358
    Casino_Royale said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Rugby is just penalty after penalty

    Entirely unconvincing English performance. It's like they turned it on and off.

    If Wales hadn't conceded so many penalties they'd have won, and deserved to win.
    Nowt wrong with the Welsh quick tap try first half either. Wasn't their fault both England and the ref were all asleep.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    A quick glance at my BF account suggests today’s horse racing tips did well, including the EW long shot from Ms Rabbit. Congratulations all :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    BREAKING: Ukrainian presidential adviser says about 3,500 Russian troops have been killed and injured so far in war against Ukraine, @Reuters is reporting.

    It's not immediately possible to independently verify such figures

    Adviser also says Russian attack on Kyiv isn't advancing

    https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1497642577260122116

    I think the gloves are about to come off with artillery/rocket artillery.

    But, I think that just digs an even deeper political hole for Putin.
    I read in the Times or FT that the Russian people were told that this would be a liberation and the people of Ukraine would welcome Russian troops.

    Seeing Kyiv razed is going to lead to some awkward questions.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    pigeon said:

    darkage said:

    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.

    It depends very much who you are talking about. I wouldn't say I "glorify" death at all, but there are a lot of truly vile people on the Russian side that the world would be better off without.

    There's no point in being wet about this. Putin's death, for example, would be a blessing for humanity.
    How can you say that for certain? You've no idea what he might be keeping the lid on, or what the future holds.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    JohnLilburne said:

    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    Fuck shit. Uncle Vova needs a bullet in the back of the head.
    So manly...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,122
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Parsing that statement, Roman Abramovich hasn't handed over ownership of Chelsea has he?

    This looks like some PR bullshit.

    Yeah, I think he's made things worse for Chelsea.
    Being rather cynical this is just some protection from him to stop the UK government seizing Chelsea from him.

    This is going to be some form over substance.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,988
    numbertwelve said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    BREAKING: Ukrainian presidential adviser says about 3,500 Russian troops have been killed and injured so far in war against Ukraine, @Reuters is reporting.

    It's not immediately possible to independently verify such figures

    Adviser also says Russian attack on Kyiv isn't advancing

    https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1497642577260122116

    If true that’s about the same as the total number of coalition deaths in Afghanistan for the whole period of the occupation.
    It almost certainly isn't. Due to excitement, assuming an explosion was a hit, and assuming that hit was a kill rather than survived, double-counting and confirmation bias these can be threefold the real numbers.

    But, I'd expect 600-1,000 Russian casualties sounds about right. Ukrainian casualties probably not too bad so far but civilian casualties will probably now ratchet-up nastily, I suspect.

    They aren't advancing because they're now bringing out the big guns before they try again. Kyiv needs to be emptied of all non-combatant civilians overnight, IMHO.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,495
    Just sent an email to Smarkets and booked my train ticket. An evening up in the smoke with good company sounds like just what I need. I even got permission from my wife first :)
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,794
    IanB2 said:

    A quick glance at my BF account suggests today’s horse racing tips did well, including the EW long shot from Ms Rabbit. Congratulations all :)

    Never doubt the Rabbit.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,051
    darkage said:

    pigeon said:

    darkage said:

    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.

    It depends very much who you are talking about. I wouldn't say I "glorify" death at all, but there are a lot of truly vile people on the Russian side that the world would be better off without.

    There's no point in being wet about this. Putin's death, for example, would be a blessing for humanity.
    How can you say that for certain? You've no idea what he might be keeping the lid on, or what the future holds.

    One could argue every success for Ukraine takes us one step closer to nuclear war. We just don't know.

    But I am wishing Ukraine every success in this war.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,988
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    BREAKING: Ukrainian presidential adviser says about 3,500 Russian troops have been killed and injured so far in war against Ukraine, @Reuters is reporting.

    It's not immediately possible to independently verify such figures

    Adviser also says Russian attack on Kyiv isn't advancing

    https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1497642577260122116

    I think the gloves are about to come off with artillery/rocket artillery.

    But, I think that just digs an even deeper political hole for Putin.
    I read in the Times or FT that the Russian people were told that this would be a liberation and the people of Ukraine would welcome Russian troops.

    Seeing Kyiv razed is going to lead to some awkward questions.
    It will, but Putin is committed now and losing is even worse for him.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,511
    Farooq said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    TimS said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    pigeon said:

    Just last week Germany was going to do zilch. As AJP Taylor said, war makes History speed up.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1497634371343319041

    Breaking: German government just decided to deliver 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 "Stinger" surface-to-air missiles from Bundeswehr stocks to Ukraine to support the country against Russian attack.

    "The weapons will be delivered to Ukraine as soon as possible," spox said.

    Chancellor Olaf Scholz: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine marks a turning point. It threatens our entire post-war order. In this situation, it is our duty to do our utmost to support Ukraine in defending itself against Vladimir Putin's invading army.GER stands closely by Ukraine."

    Their principles were obviously very important.

    Why couldn't they have decided this in the first five minutes after Ukraine was invaded?

    They've been shamed into this.
    On balance I think it’s good we have countries like Germany and Italy with a different point of view and scepticism about actions against Russia. Equally good to have ultra hawks like Poland and Estonia. As JFK famously discovered during the Bay of Pigs, groupthink is dangerous. I fancy Putin is discovering something similar now (but hopefully not learning the lesson). Ideas and strategies need healthy challenge. It means that when, for example, SWIFT gets pulled from Russia the implications will have been properly debated and understood.
    I'm not sure Germany and Italy having a different point of view always works out well.
    What are you referring to here? Teutoburg Forest?
    If Germany and Italy have different points of view then they disagree.

    If they have a different point of view they can agree with each other and disagree with everybody else.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,930
    IshmaelZ said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    tlg86 said:

    darkage said:

    I am as mad as anyone about what is going on, but have been trying to resist the urge to call for or glorify death. Anyone fighting for Russia is doing so under orders from a dictator. The tragedy is that the Ukranians have been forced in to defending themselves in this way.

    Whilst I feel some sympathy for the young Russians being sent to the deaths, we should not shy away from the fact that this is war and we very much know which side we're on.
    They might be conscripts, but soldiers are normally reckoned fair game. The Ukies need to kill as many Moskali as they can.
    Not a word I knew till 2 minutes ago, but apparently used only as an ethnic slur. And what is this "normally considered fair game" shit? I mean, yes, we are all on the Ukr side, but you sound like a Victorian gent reading the ticker in his club and hoping the North is giving the niggers a dam' good pasting.
    Not at all. If the Russians invade a democratic country then they deserve whatever shit gets dropped on them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,303
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Parsing that statement, Roman Abramovich hasn't handed over ownership of Chelsea has he?

    This looks like some PR bullshit.

    Yeah, I think he's made things worse for Chelsea.
    Being rather cynical this is just some protection from him to stop the UK government seizing Chelsea from him.

    This is going to be some form over substance.
    I cannot see him or Chelsea getting away with what appears to be sleight of hand
This discussion has been closed.

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