The Tories should sweep the board in Southend West – politicalbetting.com

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

Stark_Dawning said:

Mexicanpete said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Big Dog is going nowhere.

A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.

In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.

They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

HYUFD said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.

NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers,

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.

They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done

Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.

eek said:

darkage said:

I think @HYUFD is right about Truss having a red wall problem. She was one of the most outspoken ideologues for free markets and austerity until very recently. These ideas go down like a bucket of sick in the red wall, as we know. Her history in this area could be dragged out and weaponised by a detoxified labour party very effectively.

I don't think that's a problem because all Tory leaders will have the same problem

In 2019 you promised us "levelling up". Where is it?

Stark_Dawning said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.

They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done

Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.

'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Gallowgate said:

Andy_JS said:

Gallowgate said:

who the fuck is joe rogan?

Someone who conducts interviews with famous people.

and who is neil young?

Apparently he sung about Alabama once and wasn't that complimentary according to Lynyrd Skynyrd. Apparently a southern man don't need him around anyhow.

Tres said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.

They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done

Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.

'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.

Salisbury

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.

NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election

… or keep the Union together.

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

I agree the fat oaf could do with a lot of humility. If he had an ounce, plus a further ounce of decency he would accept he is not up to the job and resign.

To get it straight, I don’t think BJ is a great character but I didn’t vote for a saint, I voted for someone whom I thought would get the broad principles right and I’m still happy with that.

Stark_Dawning said:

Tres said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.

They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done

Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.

'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.

Salisbury

Yes, I've heard that suggested before. It was an obvious idiocy from Corbyn, but I just don't recall it getting much (if any) media attention at the time - certainty nothing along the lines of Cherie's-Flat-Gate or Yacht-Gate, which were utterly trivial in comparison but dominated the news for days.

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories

Beibheirli_C said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.

They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done

Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.

£5?? I thought you were in the US?

$6.70

No fully resident in Boris's Britain (praise him). £5 today will probably be worth €5.70 this time next week, but hey, global Britain and all that eh?

Oops - I had you mixed up with Mr Ed. My apologies

I think he was commenting on the reply below yours and confusion set in....

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories

That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!

Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)

Stuartinromford said:

MrEd said:

HYUFD said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.

NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election

Agreed. Hunt and Sunak are cut from the same cloth in many ways and appeal to the same types. Appointing either one as leader means a repeat of the 2010 coalition.

Except that the 2010 coalition of voters, let alone the resulting government, included voters saying "it's time for a change", and that factor works against the Blue Team now.

So the Conservative options all look a bit unattractive. Stick with Boris and he will keep stinking the place out. Ditch him and the 2019 model of the Conservative Party will fall apart. (That wasn't really the case for the Thatcher/Major regeneration, or the Cameron/May one.)

The 2019 victory was a remarkable triumph. But if it was bought by a Faustian pact, it came at an awfully high price.

Stark_Dawning said:

Tres said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Tres said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.

They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done

Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.

'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.

Salisbury

Yes, I've heard that suggested before. It was an obvious idiocy from Corbyn, but I just don't recall it getting much (if any) media attention at the time - certainty nothing along the lines of Cherie's-Flat-Gate or Yacht-Gate, which were utterly trivial in comparison but dominated the news for days.

Your media consumption differs from mine. What on earth is Yachtgate?

George Osborne had a drink on some rich bloke's yacht.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.

They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done

Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.

£5?? I thought you were in the US?

$6.70

No fully resident in Boris's Britain (praise him). £5 today will probably be worth €5.70 this time next week, but hey, global Britain and all that eh?

Oops - I had you mixed up with Mr Ed. My apologies

I think he was commenting on the reply below yours and confusion set in....

I think we have slightly different views. I think he is the bloke who proudly wears a MAGA hat.

MrEd said:

Gary_Burton said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.


White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour

They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)

Except with Corbyn, it hasn’t really been proved. As I’ve said before, there is an argument for saying what alienated Corbyn from Red Wall voters in 2019 was that he was seen to turn on Brexit from backing the vote to trying to block it. In a questionnaire, it’s more likely that would have been reflected in a negative opinion on Corbyn’s ratings as leader rather than specifically about Brexit.

In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.

I don't think we'll know until the next election TBH, I've always subscribed more to HYUFD's view that it was more down to Brexit than Corbyn at least in terms of the voters who left Labour in 2019 particularly those who abstained. Of course it is also true that Johnson was able to galvanise a lot of voters in the red wall etc who stayed at home in 2017, plus get a lot of direct switchers in a small no. of seats like Bassetlaw et al to turn out in 2019 to vote against Corbyn.

I am however happy to reassess my view if Starmer wins 300+ seats at the next election.

The “it was down to Corbyn narrative” is a very comforting one for Labour and the left because you can put it down as an aberration which will reverse itself out. It also avoids putting blame on SKS for advising Corbyn to go with Labour’s Brexit strategy into the 2019 election.

The problem is that there is no real life evidence to show that the “it’s Corbyn fault” analysis is correct. Labour is still struggling to break 40pc with a leader who has done all he can to break with JC and publicise it. Real life results (not just in parliamentary bye-elections but also in council bye-elections) also don’t support the “it was all down to JC” analysis.

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories

That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!

Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)

No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.

They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit

PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!

All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories

That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!

Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)

No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.

They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit

PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!

All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.

On economics they are certainly split.

Ed Davey was a minister in Cameron's coalition government and an Orange Book fiscal Conservative. Layla Moran however was first elected in 2017 and is a high tax, high spend social democrat

NorthofStoke said:

HYUFD said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories

That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!

Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)

No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.

They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit

PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!

All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.

On economics they are certainly split.

Ed Davey was a minister in Cameron's coalition government and an Orange Book fiscal Conservative. Layla Moran however was first elected in 2017 and is a high tax, high spend social democrat

Same sort of spread as the Tories then.

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories

That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!

Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)

No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.

They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit

PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!

All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.

TheScreamingEagles said:

I love The Guardian, they've followed my lead and realised there is no distinction between people from Newcastle and Sunderland.

TheScreamingEagles said:

I love The Guardian, they've followed my lead and realised there is no distinction between people from Newcastle and Sunderland.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gallowgate said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MrEd said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

algarkirk said:

Roger said:

Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished

Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.

I think that is correct

Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative

I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year

Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.

Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.

Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall

Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.

And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.

That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?

In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.

Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.

Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.

More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.

The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.

The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories

That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!

Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)

No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.

They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit

PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!

All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.

Remember yesterday he said a family of 4 could holiday in Benidorm for £761 for 14 days

Clearly he has not taken a family of 4 abroad as he would have seen it was per person and the cost was £3,044

It is this type of fake news that let's him down and he not once acknowledges he is wrong on anything