Currently my Rogan research has bored me to death. Are there worthwhile Rogan things?
This is the Andrew Doyle one on comedy, Wokeness etc
Remember this is in-depth stuff, 2-4 hours of interview, Way beyond what most people - you? - are used to.You have to give yourself time to adjust to a new but richer framework
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Big Dog is going nowhere.
A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.
In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Big Dog is going nowhere.
A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.
In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'
As an aside on the Rogan/Young spat, I see that James Blunt once again goes up even further in my estimation with his self awareness, if not my appreciation for his music.
Whilst Young and Mitchell have removed their music from Spotify, Blunt has said that unless Rogan is removed, he will release new music onto the platform.
Now that is a threat everyone should take seriously.
I liked the comment; Joe Rogan couldn't write "Keep on rockin' in the free world", but Neil Young if he so wished could Google stuff, and misinterpret it live on air.
I see Rogans twitter feed is full of anti-vax stuff. Doesn't inspire confidence in listening to any of his longer pieces. Not that I care much for Neil Young either.
I also now see where Leon gets his nuttier Wokefinder General stuff from.
Early Young stuff from the early 70s is particularly good, the Harvest Album etc
After the Goldrush is a great song, and of course he p***** off Lynard Skynard with "Southern Man" which resulted in "Sweet Home Alabama" where "old Neil", and "Mr Young" get name checked.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Big Dog is going nowhere.
A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.
In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'
… the boot.
... a ten second headstart in the labyrinth full of hungry leopards.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Big Dog is going nowhere.
A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.
In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'
...it might be some wait for the recovering economy.
But yes, he defeated Covid again, and stood-off Putin.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
The Tories may be competitive in a number of Labour seats like Leicester East, Harrow West and Brent North if Rishi Sunak becomes leader.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
As an aside on the Rogan/Young spat, I see that James Blunt once again goes up even further in my estimation with his self awareness, if not my appreciation for his music.
Whilst Young and Mitchell have removed their music from Spotify, Blunt has said that unless Rogan is removed, he will release new music onto the platform.
Now that is a threat everyone should take seriously.
I liked the comment; Joe Rogan couldn't write "Keep on rockin' in the free world", but Neil Young if he so wished could Google stuff, and misinterpret it live on air.
I see Rogans twitter feed is full of anti-vax stuff. Doesn't inspire confidence in listening to any of his longer pieces. Not that I care much for Neil Young either.
I also now see where Leon gets his nuttier Wokefinder General stuff from.
Early Young stuff from the early 70s is particularly good, the Harvest Album etc
After the Goldrush is a great song, and of course he p***** off Lynard Skynard with "Southern Man" which resulted in "Sweet Home Alabama" where "old Neil", and "Mr Young" get name checked.
Lynyrd Skynyrd, and he performed SHA at their funeral
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
The Tories may be competitive in a number of Labour seats like Leicester East, Harrow West and Brent North if Rishi Sunak becomes leader.
Effectively seats which have a large Indian Hindu population. Which is fine but that’s a demographic that’s already trending to the Tories.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
The Tories may be competitive in a number of Labour seats like Leicester East, Harrow West and Brent North if Rishi Sunak becomes leader.
Agreed, though Burnley, Bury, Bolsover, Stoke, Leigh etc would almost certainly return to Labour under a Sunak leadership too
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Big Dog is going nowhere.
A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.
In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'
...it might be some wait for the recovering economy.
But yes, he defeated Covid again, and stood-off Putin.
Which is effectively the Mail editorial today which also made reference to the 16 hour days stressed civil servants were working. Personal view is the danger for BJ has passed and Partygate will fade into the distance.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative. He might also increase the Tory vote amongst Hindus as AndyJS points out.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour or to RefUK
Incidentally, what happened with all that stuff about the party whips using threatening and bullying behaviour? Has it faded away? Presumably Labour didn't want to bang on about it too much, as they'll want to employ the same dark arts when/if they're next in government.
I think @HYUFD is right about Truss having a red wall problem. She was one of the most outspoken ideologues for free markets and austerity until very recently. These ideas go down like a bucket of sick in the red wall, as we know. Her history in this area could be dragged out and weaponised by a detoxified labour party very effectively.
Not one of them, not a single one, even mentions the possibility that they understand why the British voted to Leave on the grounds of sovereignty and democracy. Most of them claim to love the UK, they do not love it, because love means understanding. Nor does the concept that Britain is admirable BECAUSE it is different and seeks self-rule and tries to be properly democratic even enter their tiny minds
Fuck em
Your post is a great example of world leading empathy and self awareness.
Roughly a minimum of 10x those who chose to leave, even after Covid destroyed many EU citizens jobs here.
But, whatever. Remainers need to moan, we get that.
I suspect that most Unionists will stay on in Independent Scotland too, but it doesn't mean that they will like it, and mourn their losses.
If it comes to that I am not sure what we would do to be honest. A lot depends on family which is more important than countries but I can see the balance of our family edging south over the next few years. As a Scots lawyer I will have to hang around until I retire. After that I am not so sure. But the views of those who choose to remain will still be more relevant than the views of those who choose to depart.
Scotland - at least my corner of it - is already far more welcoming to incomers than England is. I can't see how independence suddenly creates an anti-English or anti-Unionist hate that would force people out
How are you judging these things? If my corner of England is very welcoming does that prove all England is? If my corner is less so does that prove the other way?
How am I judging it? I've lived in various parts of England, I've seen the way that the English national psyche has turned more insular and nasty towards the other (the rise of the BNP then UKIP then Brexit and "fuck em" upthread). That England is no longer as open and tolerant as it was feels self-evident though I know the fuck em brigade will disagree.
And Scotland? I totally accept that my corner is not automatically representative. But then again I look at the Scottish government's "New Scots" policy and them having just won a 4th term on a record vote in a record turnout and conclude that there must be some merit in my argument.
There are so many wonderful people in England. There will be many nobbers in Scotland. But the direction of travel south of the wall feels a lot worse than north of it - and I have friends living in England in despair at what is happening to society.
Oh good grief. I know actual snowflakes who are less snowflakey than you, and recently-crippled jackals that are less whiney
Ironically they seem heavily formed by coming from Rochdale, home of the race riots. No doubt living in a massively less diverse country now feels very harmonious and welcoming.
Sometimes, when hardcore remainers mock brexit voters, saying that brexit will mean more brown and black immigrants, which they claim brexit voters don’t want, I wonder if perhaps those hardcore remainers quite liked that freedom of movement ensured that most immigrants were white, european, and christian. Different and exotic, but not actually brown or muslim.
But this may be too cynical, even for me.
I think some of them thought Leavers couldn’t tell the difference between an Indian with a Phd and a Romanian Big Issue seller. And of course a “Polish Plumber” was a boon to some and not to others.
It’s funny how many of the most ardent Remainers were also keen on cheap Labour coming in but seemed to be far less keen on allowing opening up the borders when it came to professional services such as the Law…
Where on earth did you get that from?
It’s fair to say a very disproportionate number of the most ardent Remainers - Grieve, Soubry, Clarke etc - were Barristers, a profession that, when it comes to putting up barriers to stop outside competition from coming in, makes China look like a rank amateur.
I think it is bizarre in the extreme to suggest remainers were against free movement of anyone. Certainly in some professions there has to be checks on competence. I think the NHS is a good example. Encouraged people from anywhere, but need to ensure they are qualified. For most professions where harm can't be done there were no restrictions.
Your last sentence should be modified to “for most professions where harm couldn’t be done to their own interests, there were no restrictions”.
If you work in the NHS, you don’t care if more immigrants come in (and welcome it if it means less work) because your pay / pensions are protected and the increased numbers make no difference. Same goes for areas such as teachers etc.
In the Law and Accounting, though, I’m always surprised at how few people from EU countries there were (ex-Ireland) especially as the firms were international groups that could move people around between offices.
If your point is on loss to life and limb, arguably you could say that someone who was selling their services fiddling around with plumbing, electrics and the construction of a house should be more subject to regulations given there is a direct risk to life / harm if they screw things up.
Re your first sentence that is very cynical, although as a cynic myself I accept there may be some of that (free movement, but we are a special case). I don't have experience of law but I do of accounting and I have found none of that there and I have not found it in professions that don't require professional qualifications.
Re construction there are regulations (I have no idea how good) but certainly stuff like gas, electrics, beams, etc have to be signed off by a qualified person and they are inspected by a building inspector as well. If not someone has been ripping me off.
Having worked in banking for 20 years, I tend to be very cynical and even more so when it comes to lawyers. Re the builders, I think it depends who you get - the signing off procedure can be gamed so to speak
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Big Dog is going nowhere.
A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.
In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'
Take my advice and leave out the bit about "there have been no repetitions of such gatherings".
You can't be too careful where Boris is concerned.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
I think @HYUFD is right about Truss having a red wall problem. She was one of the most outspoken ideologues for free markets and austerity until very recently. These ideas go down like a bucket of sick in the red wall, as we know. Her history in this area could be dragged out and weaponised by a detoxified labour party very effectively.
I don't think that's a problem because all Tory leaders will have the same problem
In 2019 you promised us "levelling up". Where is it?
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Big Dog is going nowhere.
A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.
In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'
All true bur 2019 was his high watermark and several things have happened that almost assure him defeat next time.
1. He's not facing Corbyn
2. Brexit won't be an issue.
3. Some people didn't realize he was a liar. Now EVERYONE does
4. Some voters in the North found him likable. That number is now negligable
5. Many voters have been so repulsed by his behaviour that even lifetime Tories wont vote for him if he's still leader
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
So it is only Boris you object to? Not the swivel-eyed loons of the ERG / CRG etc? Being in the same party as Ms Patel is not an issue for you?
Presumably you admire the apparent utter lack of ability exemplified by leading members of the Cabinet and Boris's supposed successors?
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
You would like that too, considering the utter contempt you have for the white working class outside of general elections.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
Except with Corbyn, it hasn’t really been proved. As I’ve said before, there is an argument for saying what alienated Corbyn from Red Wall voters in 2019 was that he was seen to turn on Brexit from backing the vote to trying to block it. In a questionnaire, it’s more likely that would have been reflected in a negative opinion on Corbyn’s ratings as leader rather than specifically about Brexit.
In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
Agreed. Hunt and Sunak are cut from the same cloth in many ways and appeal to the same types. Appointing either one as leader means a repeat of the 2010 coalition.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers,
HYUFD is a Remainer. He voted Remain in 2016. He wanted us to be run from Brussels.
Someone who conducts interviews with famous people.
and who is neil young?
Apparently he sung about Alabama once and wasn't that complimentary according to Lynyrd Skynyrd. Apparently a southern man don't need him around anyhow.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Big Dog is going nowhere.
A superlative performance of deceipt and chicanery with his sidekick Dick has saved the day.
In a few months the Tory refrain will be: 'Yes, those gatherings that took place in Number Ten all those years ago were unwise, and Boris should perhaps have been more candid when questions were raised in January, but since then lessons have clearly been learnt - there have been no repetitions of such gatherings - and what with the Covid crisis at an end and the economy recovering, it's only fair to give Boris...'
All true bur 2019 was his high watermark and several things have happened that almost assure him defeat next time.
1. He's not facing Corbyn
2. Brexit won't be an issue.
3. Some people didn't realize he was a liar. Now EVERYONE does
4. Some voters in the North found him likable. That number is now negligable
5. Many voters have been so repulsed by his behaviour that even lifetime Tories wont vote for him if he's still leader
6. Scottish Labour and Lib Dem supporters who held their noses and votes Conservative to counter the SNP will no longer be able to stomach it. Watch out for hefty swingback to especially the SLDs in about a dozen Con-SNP battleground seats.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
I agree the fat oaf could do with a lot of humility. If he had an ounce, plus a further ounce of decency he would accept he is not up to the job and resign.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
I think @HYUFD is right about Truss having a red wall problem. She was one of the most outspoken ideologues for free markets and austerity until very recently. These ideas go down like a bucket of sick in the red wall, as we know. Her history in this area could be dragged out and weaponised by a detoxified labour party very effectively.
I don't think that's a problem because all Tory leaders will have the same problem
In 2019 you promised us "levelling up". Where is it?
"We moved all the money to the SE of England so that the extra weight would lower the south and lift the north end of the country higher. If you think your end is not "up" enough, we can take more money off you and move it south"
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
Except with Corbyn, it hasn’t really been proved. As I’ve said before, there is an argument for saying what alienated Corbyn from Red Wall voters in 2019 was that he was seen to turn on Brexit from backing the vote to trying to block it. In a questionnaire, it’s more likely that would have been reflected in a negative opinion on Corbyn’s ratings as leader rather than specifically about Brexit.
In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.
I don't think we'll know until the next election TBH, I've always subscribed more to HYUFD's view that it was more down to Brexit than Corbyn at least in terms of the voters who left Labour in 2019 particularly those who abstained. Of course it is also true that Johnson was able to galvanise a lot of voters in the red wall etc who stayed at home in 2017, plus get a lot of direct switchers in a small no. of seats like Bassetlaw et al to turn out in 2019 to vote against Corbyn.
I am however happy to reassess my view if Starmer wins 300+ seats at the next election.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
Yes, I know but thanks for pointing it out. The same was also true in 1983, 1987 etc etc
You might also want to consider that, as Nigel suggested, a fair few of the LD voters are not necessarily pro-Labour voters hence why the LD seats are in traditionally Tory areas.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.
Someone who conducts interviews with famous people.
and who is neil young?
Apparently he sung about Alabama once and wasn't that complimentary according to Lynyrd Skynyrd. Apparently a southern man don't need him around anyhow.
"Define irony: a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash."
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
Yes, I know but thanks for pointing it out. The same was also true in 1983, 1987 etc etc
You might also want to consider that, as Nigel suggested, a fair few of the LD voters are not necessarily pro-Labour voters hence why the LD seats are in traditionally Tory areas.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.
Salisbury
Yes, I've heard that suggested before. It was an obvious idiocy from Corbyn, but I just don't recall it getting much (if any) media attention at the time - certainty nothing along the lines of Cherie's-Flat-Gate or Yacht-Gate, which were utterly trivial in comparison but dominated the news for days.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.
£5?? I thought you were in the US?
$6.70
No fully resident in Boris's Britain (praise him). £5 today will probably be worth €5.70 this time next week, but hey, global Britain and all that eh?
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
I agree the fat oaf could do with a lot of humility. If he had an ounce, plus a further ounce of decency he would accept he is not up to the job and resign.
To get it straight, I don’t think BJ is a great character but I didn’t vote for a saint, I voted for someone whom I thought would get the broad principles right and I’m still happy with that.
Someone who conducts interviews with famous people.
and who is neil young?
Apparently he sung about Alabama once and wasn't that complimentary according to Lynyrd Skynyrd. Apparently a southern man don't need him around anyhow.
"Define irony: a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash."
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
… or keep the Union together.
So you are saying Boris is the best bet for the Union then on that logic.
Remember Boris won more Tory MPs in Scotland with his voter coalition in 2019 than Cameron did in 2015 on the voter coalition for the Tories Nigelb wants to return to
Someone who conducts interviews with famous people.
and who is neil young?
Apparently he sung about Alabama once and wasn't that complimentary according to Lynyrd Skynyrd. Apparently a southern man don't need him around anyhow.
"Define irony: a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash."
Yes a very sad event. Too many great artists have gone that way.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
I agree the fat oaf could do with a lot of humility. If he had an ounce, plus a further ounce of decency he would accept he is not up to the job and resign.
To get it straight, I don’t think BJ is a great character but I didn’t vote for a saint, I voted for someone whom I thought would get the broad principles right and I’m still happy with that.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.
£5?? I thought you were in the US?
$6.70
No fully resident in Boris's Britain (praise him). £5 today will probably be worth €5.70 this time next week, but hey, global Britain and all that eh?
Oops - I had you mixed up with Mr Ed. My apologies
I think he was commenting on the reply below yours and confusion set in....
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
Yes, I know but thanks for pointing it out. The same was also true in 1983, 1987 etc etc
You might also want to consider that, as Nigel suggested, a fair few of the LD voters are not necessarily pro-Labour voters hence why the LD seats are in traditionally Tory areas.
Whats that got to do with anything?
First, we live in a FPTP system so seats count.
Second, I didn’t have a clue what your original point was about anyway.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
Agreed. Hunt and Sunak are cut from the same cloth in many ways and appeal to the same types. Appointing either one as leader means a repeat of the 2010 coalition.
Hunt in particular is a UK Romney, Boris' coalition is more the one Trump won with in 2016 in the US
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.
Salisbury
Yes, I've heard that suggested before. It was an obvious idiocy from Corbyn, but I just don't recall it getting much (if any) media attention at the time - certainty nothing along the lines of Cherie's-Flat-Gate or Yacht-Gate, which were utterly trivial in comparison but dominated the news for days.
Your media consumption differs from mine. What on earth is Yachtgate?
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
…and legalised gay marriage
I think the coalition was the best government of my lifetime. Compromise is often a good thing, and the governance of that period was a completely different world to that today
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!
Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
Yes, I know but thanks for pointing it out. The same was also true in 1983, 1987 etc etc
You might also want to consider that, as Nigel suggested, a fair few of the LD voters are not necessarily pro-Labour voters hence why the LD seats are in traditionally Tory areas.
Whats that got to do with anything?
First, we live in a FPTP system so seats count.
Second, I didn’t have a clue what your original point was about anyway.
Yeah, seats definitely count when we’re forming a government. I’m not saying they don’t. But it’s ludicrous to argue that an opinion isn’t valid because its not the majority and its even more ludicrous to argue an opinion isn't valid because its not the plurality.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.
£5?? I thought you were in the US?
$6.70
No fully resident in Boris's Britain (praise him). £5 today will probably be worth €5.70 this time next week, but hey, global Britain and all that eh?
Oops - I had you mixed up with Mr Ed. My apologies
I think he was commenting on the reply below yours and confusion set in....
I think we have slightly different views. I think he is the bloke who proudly wears a MAGA hat.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
Agreed. Hunt and Sunak are cut from the same cloth in many ways and appeal to the same types. Appointing either one as leader means a repeat of the 2010 coalition.
Except that the 2010 coalition of voters, let alone the resulting government, included voters saying "it's time for a change", and that factor works against the Blue Team now.
So the Conservative options all look a bit unattractive. Stick with Boris and he will keep stinking the place out. Ditch him and the 2019 model of the Conservative Party will fall apart. (That wasn't really the case for the Thatcher/Major regeneration, or the Cameron/May one.)
The 2019 victory was a remarkable triumph. But if it was bought by a Faustian pact, it came at an awfully high price.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
Except with Corbyn, it hasn’t really been proved. As I’ve said before, there is an argument for saying what alienated Corbyn from Red Wall voters in 2019 was that he was seen to turn on Brexit from backing the vote to trying to block it. In a questionnaire, it’s more likely that would have been reflected in a negative opinion on Corbyn’s ratings as leader rather than specifically about Brexit.
In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.
I don't think we'll know until the next election TBH, I've always subscribed more to HYUFD's view that it was more down to Brexit than Corbyn at least in terms of the voters who left Labour in 2019 particularly those who abstained. Of course it is also true that Johnson was able to galvanise a lot of voters in the red wall etc who stayed at home in 2017, plus get a lot of direct switchers in a small no. of seats like Bassetlaw et al to turn out in 2019 to vote against Corbyn.
I am however happy to reassess my view if Starmer wins 300+ seats at the next election.
The “it was down to Corbyn narrative” is a very comforting one for Labour and the left because you can put it down as an aberration which will reverse itself out. It also avoids putting blame on SKS for advising Corbyn to go with Labour’s Brexit strategy into the 2019 election.
The problem is that there is no real life evidence to show that the “it’s Corbyn fault” analysis is correct. Labour is still struggling to break 40pc with a leader who has done all he can to break with JC and publicise it. Real life results (not just in parliamentary bye-elections but also in council bye-elections) also don’t support the “it was all down to JC” analysis.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.
Salisbury
Yes, I've heard that suggested before. It was an obvious idiocy from Corbyn, but I just don't recall it getting much (if any) media attention at the time - certainty nothing along the lines of Cherie's-Flat-Gate or Yacht-Gate, which were utterly trivial in comparison but dominated the news for days.
Your media consumption differs from mine. What on earth is Yachtgate?
George Osborne had a drink on some rich bloke's yacht.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!
Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
The Tory vote would certainly become posher again under Sunak, more graduates and high earners and fewer of the white working class.
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
Agreed. Hunt and Sunak are cut from the same cloth in many ways and appeal to the same types. Appointing either one as leader means a repeat of the 2010 coalition.
Except that the 2010 coalition of voters, let alone the resulting government, included voters saying "it's time for a change", and that factor works against the Blue Team now.
So the Conservative options all look a bit unattractive. Stick with Boris and he will keep stinking the place out. Ditch him and the 2019 model of the Conservative Party will fall apart. (That wasn't really the case for the Thatcher/Major regeneration, or the Cameron/May one.)
The 2019 victory was a remarkable triumph. But if it was bought by a Faustian pact, it came at an awfully high price.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.
Salisbury
Yes, I've heard that suggested before. It was an obvious idiocy from Corbyn, but I just don't recall it getting much (if any) media attention at the time - certainty nothing along the lines of Cherie's-Flat-Gate or Yacht-Gate, which were utterly trivial in comparison but dominated the news for days.
Targeted social media campaigning by CCHQ to remind voters about Salisbury, or IRA in bombed cities, or anti-armed forces in barracks towns or antisemitism if Jewish, and so on. Also between 2017 and 2019 Corbyn aged about 20 years, was old and grumpy, and his special glasses meant he could no longer make eye contact with the tv audience. That's what changed about Corbyn, added to which, Boris pinched Corbyn's greatest hits from 2017. If voters hated Cameron & May's Tories, well, vote Boris because so did he!
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.
Salisbury
Yes, I've heard that suggested before. It was an obvious idiocy from Corbyn, but I just don't recall it getting much (if any) media attention at the time - certainty nothing along the lines of Cherie's-Flat-Gate or Yacht-Gate, which were utterly trivial in comparison but dominated the news for days.
Your media consumption differs from mine. What on earth is Yachtgate?
George Osborne had a drink on some rich bloke's yacht.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
Except with Corbyn, it hasn’t really been proved. As I’ve said before, there is an argument for saying what alienated Corbyn from Red Wall voters in 2019 was that he was seen to turn on Brexit from backing the vote to trying to block it. In a questionnaire, it’s more likely that would have been reflected in a negative opinion on Corbyn’s ratings as leader rather than specifically about Brexit.
In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.
I don't think we'll know until the next election TBH, I've always subscribed more to HYUFD's view that it was more down to Brexit than Corbyn at least in terms of the voters who left Labour in 2019 particularly those who abstained. Of course it is also true that Johnson was able to galvanise a lot of voters in the red wall etc who stayed at home in 2017, plus get a lot of direct switchers in a small no. of seats like Bassetlaw et al to turn out in 2019 to vote against Corbyn.
I am however happy to reassess my view if Starmer wins 300+ seats at the next election.
The “it was down to Corbyn narrative” is a very comforting one for Labour and the left because you can put it down as an aberration which will reverse itself out. It also avoids putting blame on SKS for advising Corbyn to go with Labour’s Brexit strategy into the 2019 election.
The problem is that there is no real life evidence to show that the “it’s Corbyn fault” analysis is correct. Labour is still struggling to break 40pc with a leader who has done all he can to break with JC and publicise it. Real life results (not just in parliamentary bye-elections but also in council bye-elections) also don’t support the “it was all down to JC” analysis.
If you’re so confident that the gammon majority is secure, why do you care so much about people arguing the opposite?
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.
£5?? I thought you were in the US?
$6.70
No fully resident in Boris's Britain (praise him). £5 today will probably be worth €5.70 this time next week, but hey, global Britain and all that eh?
Oops - I had you mixed up with Mr Ed. My apologies
I think he was commenting on the reply below yours and confusion set in....
I think we have slightly different views. I think he is the bloke who proudly wears a MAGA hat.
Which is why I thought he was in the US. I think perhaps a quiet lie-down is in order, or at least a cup of tea
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
The Tories may be competitive in a number of Labour seats like Leicester East, Harrow West and Brent North if Rishi Sunak becomes leader.
Effectively seats which have a large Indian Hindu population. Which is fine but that’s a demographic that’s already trending to the Tories.
I think if we assume, even with good swimgback, that 2024 is a defensive election for the Tories, you are looking at the likes of Harrow East (govt won since 79) which might be an important defence in NOM territory, or Chipping Barnet (somewhat less Hindu but very marginal now) if Tories are retaining a majority.
Leicester East, because of the number of Hindus and modest majority, may be in reach, but only on a pretty good Tory night - UNS remains a strong counterweight if the government is clapped out.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
Except with Corbyn, it hasn’t really been proved. As I’ve said before, there is an argument for saying what alienated Corbyn from Red Wall voters in 2019 was that he was seen to turn on Brexit from backing the vote to trying to block it. In a questionnaire, it’s more likely that would have been reflected in a negative opinion on Corbyn’s ratings as leader rather than specifically about Brexit.
In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.
I don't think we'll know until the next election TBH, I've always subscribed more to HYUFD's view that it was more down to Brexit than Corbyn at least in terms of the voters who left Labour in 2019 particularly those who abstained. Of course it is also true that Johnson was able to galvanise a lot of voters in the red wall etc who stayed at home in 2017, plus get a lot of direct switchers in a small no. of seats like Bassetlaw et al to turn out in 2019 to vote against Corbyn.
I am however happy to reassess my view if Starmer wins 300+ seats at the next election.
The “it was down to Corbyn narrative” is a very comforting one for Labour and the left because you can put it down as an aberration which will reverse itself out. It also avoids putting blame on SKS for advising Corbyn to go with Labour’s Brexit strategy into the 2019 election.
The problem is that there is no real life evidence to show that the “it’s Corbyn fault” analysis is correct. Labour is still struggling to break 40pc with a leader who has done all he can to break with JC and publicise it. Real life results (not just in parliamentary bye-elections but also in council bye-elections) also don’t support the “it was all down to JC” analysis.
Shit I am really confused now. I thought that HYUFD was Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, and now I think it might be you. Maybe you are the same person. I'll have to claim my £5 from you, or perhaps my $6.70
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!
Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.
No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.
They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit
PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!
All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
The problem is that even if @HYUFD is right for 90% of 2019 Conservative voters, that's still a fairly meaningful drop in the Conservative vote.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
Except with Corbyn, it hasn’t really been proved. As I’ve said before, there is an argument for saying what alienated Corbyn from Red Wall voters in 2019 was that he was seen to turn on Brexit from backing the vote to trying to block it. In a questionnaire, it’s more likely that would have been reflected in a negative opinion on Corbyn’s ratings as leader rather than specifically about Brexit.
In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.
I don't think we'll know until the next election TBH, I've always subscribed more to HYUFD's view that it was more down to Brexit than Corbyn at least in terms of the voters who left Labour in 2019 particularly those who abstained. Of course it is also true that Johnson was able to galvanise a lot of voters in the red wall etc who stayed at home in 2017, plus get a lot of direct switchers in a small no. of seats like Bassetlaw et al to turn out in 2019 to vote against Corbyn.
I am however happy to reassess my view if Starmer wins 300+ seats at the next election.
The “it was down to Corbyn narrative” is a very comforting one for Labour and the left because you can put it down as an aberration which will reverse itself out. It also avoids putting blame on SKS for advising Corbyn to go with Labour’s Brexit strategy into the 2019 election.
The problem is that there is no real life evidence to show that the “it’s Corbyn fault” analysis is correct. Labour is still struggling to break 40pc with a leader who has done all he can to break with JC and publicise it. Real life results (not just in parliamentary bye-elections but also in council bye-elections) also don’t support the “it was all down to JC” analysis.
Shit I am really confused now. I thought that HYUFD was Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, and now I think it might be you. Maybe you are the same person. I'll have to claim my £5 from you, or perhaps my $6.70
Or maybe you are Mr Al-Sahhaf yourself.
The thing is you haven’t given any evidence yet why switching away from BJ will win the Tories the next GE apart from proclaiming that you and a couple of your mates down in whichever nice, remain-voting southern party of the country might reconsider voting Tory.
I’ve given my view and I’ve suggested what might be the supporting evidence. You’ve given the first but not the second, and seem to think that making insults makes up for that lack of evidence. If you actually provided some data / evidence for what you state, I’m more than happy to admit I’m wrong.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!
Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.
No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.
They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit
PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!
All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.
On economics they are certainly split.
Ed Davey was a minister in Cameron's coalition government and an Orange Book fiscal Conservative. Layla Moran however was first elected in 2017 and is a high tax, high spend social democrat
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!
Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.
No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.
They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit
PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!
All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.
On economics they are certainly split.
Ed Davey was a minister in Cameron's coalition government and an Orange Book fiscal Conservative. Layla Moran however was first elected in 2017 and is a high tax, high spend social democrat
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
The problem is that even if @HYUFD is right for 90% of 2019 Conservative voters, that's still a fairly meaningful drop in the Conservative vote.
Which still does not change anything unless Sunak or any other alternative Tory leader regains that lost 10% or picks up another 10% in terms of replacing Boris or not as Tory leader
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!
Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.
No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.
They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit
PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!
All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.
On economics they are certainly split.
Ed Davey was a minister in Cameron's coalition government and an Orange Book fiscal Conservative. Layla Moran however was first elected in 2017 and is a high tax, high spend social democrat
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
The problem is that even if @HYUFD is right for 90% of 2019 Conservative voters, that's still a fairly meaningful drop in the Conservative vote.
Yes, but you are assuming that everything else stays the same, which it probably will not. Labour is seeing shifts away from it from other ethnic groups (Indian Hindu / Sikhs etc) plus a further drop off in traditional “Labour until I die” voters. Labour has been seeing structural shifts in its vote since 2005 at least. 2019 just accelerated many of those trends.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
That is perhaps because you are one of the few with the swivelly eyes methinks?
In yours (and others) eyes, I probably do but it is that implicit attitude of “I know better than you, you thicko” that meant your type both lost the Brexit battle and control of the Tory party. From an electoral standpoint, while you might think your group’s support is important, it’s quite small.
Well I would never have said such a thing, but based on that post those that did were probably right on both counts. The Tory Party will return to sanity in the same way as the Labour Party is. The grown ups will eventually "take back control" and The Clown and all his chancer lightweight fuckwits that he has put in positions way above their capability will be consigned to the political dustbin where they belong. After that has happened, and the realisation to even the most stupid that they have been conned will gradually filter down. Sadly it may mean that the Conservative Party is out of office for decades.
Mmmmm, well you don’t have much to back up your points so far do you? You switched from Tory to LD in 2019, yet BJ won the biggest majority for the Tories since 1987 and the biggest majority for any party since 2001. Sometimes a little humility might help out with things.
More people voted for other parties than voted for the Tories you know, even in 2019, so your arrogant tosh just wont wash.
The Progressive parties got 52% of the vote UK-wide, right-wing parties 47%, and others 1%.
The LDs are not always progressive, in 2010 they went into coalition with the Tories
That was 12 years ago. Doubt they will pair up with the Tories now!
Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.
No, LDs are split. Social Democrats are centre left, Orange Book LDs are centre right.
They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit
PLEASE STOP starting responses with "no" as though you are the font of all knowledge!!
All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.
Remember yesterday he said a family of 4 could holiday in Benidorm for £761 for 14 days
Clearly he has not taken a family of 4 abroad as he would have seen it was per person and the cost was £3,044
It is this type of fake news that let's him down and he not once acknowledges he is wrong on anything
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
And there are plenty I know where @HYFUD’s analysis is right. It will be a trade off but, on balance, I think @HYFUD is right.
The problem is that even if @HYUFD is right for 90% of 2019 Conservative voters, that's still a fairly meaningful drop in the Conservative vote.
Yes, but you are assuming that everything else stays the same, which it probably will not. Labour is seeing shifts away from it from other ethnic groups (Indian Hindu / Sikhs etc) plus a further drop off in traditional “Labour until I die” voters. Labour has been seeing structural shifts in its vote since 2005 at least. 2019 just accelerated many of those trends.
And yet Labour are still ahead in the polls. Curious.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Nah, that's overly simplistic. Corbyn was a meme in 2017 but he was literal shit on a shoe in 2019. Brexit is just one factor.
'What changed with Corbyn between 2017 and 2019' is one of the great political puzzles from that time. As you say, there's no simply answer - there were many intertwined dynamics that gave rise to that puzzle and several others.
Salisbury
Yes, I've heard that suggested before. It was an obvious idiocy from Corbyn, but I just don't recall it getting much (if any) media attention at the time - certainty nothing along the lines of Cherie's-Flat-Gate or Yacht-Gate, which were utterly trivial in comparison but dominated the news for days.
Your media consumption differs from mine. What on earth is Yachtgate?
George Osborne had a drink on some rich bloke's yacht.
nope, not ringing any bells
George Osborne was on a yacht tapping up dodgy Russian donations for the Tories. Peter Mandelson blabbed.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
Except with Corbyn, it hasn’t really been proved. As I’ve said before, there is an argument for saying what alienated Corbyn from Red Wall voters in 2019 was that he was seen to turn on Brexit from backing the vote to trying to block it. In a questionnaire, it’s more likely that would have been reflected in a negative opinion on Corbyn’s ratings as leader rather than specifically about Brexit.
In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.
I don't think we'll know until the next election TBH, I've always subscribed more to HYUFD's view that it was more down to Brexit than Corbyn at least in terms of the voters who left Labour in 2019 particularly those who abstained. Of course it is also true that Johnson was able to galvanise a lot of voters in the red wall etc who stayed at home in 2017, plus get a lot of direct switchers in a small no. of seats like Bassetlaw et al to turn out in 2019 to vote against Corbyn.
I am however happy to reassess my view if Starmer wins 300+ seats at the next election.
The “it was down to Corbyn narrative” is a very comforting one for Labour and the left because you can put it down as an aberration which will reverse itself out. It also avoids putting blame on SKS for advising Corbyn to go with Labour’s Brexit strategy into the 2019 election.
The problem is that there is no real life evidence to show that the “it’s Corbyn fault” analysis is correct. Labour is still struggling to break 40pc with a leader who has done all he can to break with JC and publicise it. Real life results (not just in parliamentary bye-elections but also in council bye-elections) also don’t support the “it was all down to JC” analysis.
If you’re so confident that the gammon majority is secure, why do you care so much about people arguing the opposite?
Screams insecurity methinks.
Mainly because I like debating with people and learning things. Plus I’m always a great believer in knowing what your (hypothetical) enemy thinks.
Anyone think this BJ thing is over listen to Any Answers. Listen particularly for ex John Major's Private Secretary (or similar). Hilarious. I'm not not talking studio audience I'm talking about the phone in afterwards. As a human being Johnson's finished
Most of the habitual Tories I know would not vote Tory today, or so they say. (I generally vote Tory in GEs but certainly would not so right now). But there is no sense of having given up on the Tories as such, any more than centrists gave up on Labour in the dark days of Corbyn.
I think that is correct
Conservative mps depose Boris and a new leader from Rishi , Truss, Hunt or Tugendhat with a clearance of cabinet inadequates of JRM, Dorries and a few others, would see a change of narrative
I will rejoin on Boris's exit which is more than likely some time this year
Hunt or Tugendhat are Remainers, I expect they would see barely any Remainers switch from Labour or LD to a Tories led by them post Brexit. However some Leavers currently voting Tory under Boris would likely switch to RefUK or Labour under them.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
Total tosh. I know loads of people like myself that would happily return to the Conservative Party if The Clown is kicked out. You are obsessed with "Leavers and Remainers" even though you were a "remainer" yourself. It is yesterdays war, and very few people but the most swivel-eyed care. All I want is a competent, fiscally sensible, business friendly, socially liberal Conservative party back. Not this populist incompetent crap that we will continue top have under your idol "Boris". Wake up: he is a fuckwit.
You voted for Cameron in 2015 but LD in 2019 I believe so I already included you in my small category of voters who might switch back to the Tories under Sunak ie wealthy graduates on the whole not keen on a very hard Brexit but fiscally Conservative.
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour
They have already switched back though. My opinion is that it had very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with Corbyn. Mike has demonstrated this on a number of headers but you are in denial. No Corbyn= no red wall seats. The Tories need a new election strategy and fast. The first part of that strategy needs to be to get rid of The Clown. Personally I still think he will be gone by June. After then you will have to swear undying fealty to the next leader of the Party. Praise him/her/they (delete as appropriate)
The redwall voted for Corbyn in 2017.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
Oh dear me. Marketing people must love you. Check out the polls that Mike published. You normally like polls when they prove your point. You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5.
£5?? I thought you were in the US?
$6.70
No fully resident in Boris's Britain (praise him). £5 today will probably be worth €5.70 this time next week, but hey, global Britain and all that eh?
Oops - I had you mixed up with Mr Ed. My apologies
I think he was commenting on the reply below yours and confusion set in....
Brilliant. I think that mix-up probably offended Nigel more than it offended me 😀
Comments
Infinitely more informative and entertaining.
Truss was a Remainer even if now a committed Leaver and a libertarian, I expect she would also see leakage to RefUK and Labour, especially in the redwall. I also doubt any voters currently voting Labour or LD switch to a Truss led Tories.
Sunak as a Leaver is likely to see less switching to RefUK however I doubt he would win many voters from Labour or the LDs either. At most he might win a few voters back who voted for Cameron in 2015 but have voted LD for example since. However I also think he would not have the appeal Boris does to the white working class in the redwall
https://groovyhistory.com/neil-young-lynyrd-skynyrd-feud-sweet-home-alabama
But yes, he defeated Covid again, and stood-off Putin.
Pore ol hunty gets the thumbs down on Covid management. As health is meant to be his usp this is a problem.
ETA less competent than Corbs. Cripes!
White working class voters in the redwall though who were very keen on Brexit but also pro big state and socially conservative would probably go the other way if Sunak replaced Boris, back to Labour or to RefUK
You can't be too careful where Boris is concerned.
They only switched to the Tories in 2019 for Boris and to get Brexit done
In 2019 you promised us "levelling up". Where is it?
1. He's not facing Corbyn
2. Brexit won't be an issue.
3. Some people didn't realize he was a liar. Now EVERYONE does
4. Some voters in the North found him likable. That number is now negligable
5. Many voters have been so repulsed by his behaviour that even lifetime Tories wont vote for him if he's still leader
Presumably you admire the apparent utter lack of ability exemplified by leading members of the Cabinet and Boris's supposed successors?
NigelB would no doubt like that. However it is not necessarily the best way to win another general election
In any event, you actually have some real life data that backs what I’m saying, namely BJ won Hartlepool and nearly won B&S. Hard to blame Corbyn for those two.
I am however happy to reassess my view if Starmer wins 300+ seats at the next election.
You might also want to consider that, as Nigel suggested, a fair few of the LD voters are not necessarily pro-Labour voters hence why the LD seats are in traditionally Tory areas.
$6.70
He seems to like ITV at the moment for his leaks.
Did you know that N Cage is really N Coppola?
Remember Boris won more Tory MPs in Scotland with his voter coalition in 2019 than Cameron did in 2015 on the voter coalition for the Tories Nigelb wants to return to
I think he was commenting on the reply below yours and confusion set in....
Second, I didn’t have a clue what your original point was about anyway.
Wiki says the LDs are "Centre to Cente-left", so leaning left.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democrats_(UK)
So the Conservative options all look a bit unattractive. Stick with Boris and he will keep stinking the place out. Ditch him and the 2019 model of the Conservative Party will fall apart. (That wasn't really the case for the Thatcher/Major regeneration, or the Cameron/May one.)
The 2019 victory was a remarkable triumph. But if it was bought by a Faustian pact, it came at an awfully high price.
The problem is that there is no real life evidence to show that the “it’s Corbyn fault” analysis is correct. Labour is still struggling to break 40pc with a leader who has done all he can to break with JC and publicise it. Real life results (not just in parliamentary bye-elections but also in council bye-elections) also don’t support the “it was all down to JC” analysis.
They are just united on being social liberals and having opposed Brexit
Screams insecurity methinks.
Leicester East, because of the number of Hindus and modest majority, may be in reach, but only on a pretty good Tory night - UNS remains a strong counterweight if the government is clapped out.
All political parties in the UK are coalitions, the LDs are no different and if you have any perspective you will know they were the result of a merger. Suggesting that they are therefore "split" is partisan nonsense. They are almost certainly less "split" than the two main parties from what I can see.
The thing is you haven’t given any evidence yet why switching away from BJ will win the Tories the next GE apart from proclaiming that you and a couple of your mates down in whichever nice, remain-voting southern party of the country might reconsider voting Tory.
I’ve given my view and I’ve suggested what might be the supporting evidence. You’ve given the first but not the second, and seem to think that making insults makes up for that lack of evidence. If you actually provided some data / evidence for what you state, I’m more than happy to admit I’m wrong.
Ed Davey was a minister in Cameron's coalition government and an Orange Book fiscal Conservative. Layla Moran however was first elected in 2017 and is a high tax, high spend social democrat
A little article about the pointlessness of voting, to cheer up a Saturday afternoon…
Clearly he has not taken a family of 4 abroad as he would have seen it was per person and the cost was £3,044
It is this type of fake news that let's him down and he not once acknowledges he is wrong on anything