politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP Clacton price the big mover in today’s political betti
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No one can tell you who to choose. Unsurprisingly, we have all chosen along vaguely political lines!foxinsoxuk said:
Call me an old leftie, but could I nominate Tom Paine?Socrates said:
Edmund Burke:Luckyguy1983 said:Who is everyone's favourite politician living or dead? I warm to Disraeli the most in character, because I think my brain works a little like his brain worked (not claiming to be a great political thinker btw). A good historian (I forget who) said something like 'His mind was like a catherine wheel, spitting out ideas like sparks. Most fell on dead earth, but occasionally one fell on the straw, caught fire, and illuminated the night' about Disraeli, and I like to think about that when most of my ideas are falling on dead earth.
- British patriot
- Had clear moral clarity
- Supportive of the American rebels
- Opposed to the French revolution
- Anti-slavery
- Anti-colonialism
- Anti-corporate power
- Combined support for liberal rights with gradual reform
- Father of the progressive brand of conservatism
He was in many ways the polar opposite of Burke, apart from also supporting the american revolutionaries, even to the point of being elected to the French revolutionary assembly.
His books "Common Sense" and "The Rights of Man" were the political best sellers of their day, and still read very well.
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Agree with that too. If something is illegal but socially approved then the second trumps the first.david_herdson said:
What really changes behaviour is social disapproval for an act from people whose opinions are valued. Changing laws is a big part of that but it's not sufficient of itself.Toms said:The problem of how to tackle nationwide large scale law breaking is, in practical terms, tricky.
For instance the use of mobile 'phones while driving is illegal, causes deaths, and damages people, but it is still not uncommon though it is decreasing.
Viewed over many thousands of miles from the bicycle saddle I can say that in the early days there was no such law and people routinely carried on such conversations. When it was made illegal the practice certainly decreased, perhaps to many thousands of times a day. Nowadays, with a few successful prosecutions, and also increased fines, I do still see people breaking the law but now also more people are pulling over to talk on their mobiles. This dangerous illegal practice has yet to be stopped, but things are moving in the right direction.
The point? With nation-wide law breaking it may not be feasible to nail all toe-rag criminals at the start in one go. But by gradually tightening the legal machinery and enforcing it, in full measure case by case, a change in behaviour might be effected in the end. Hopefully.
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Of course, if it is never reported or recorded, the figures would look exemplary.Rexel56 said:Reading minutes of the Rotherham Safeguarding Children's Board to get a better understanding of what went wrong. Found this gem from September 2009:
In relation to other regions in the country, Rotherham is reported to have taken the most proactive approach to dealing with the issue of sexual exploitation. Mr Perry responded that Rotherham therefore has a responsibility to share good practice and added that a recommendation should be made for the Board to commend the work done by staff in this area.
Did they really believe this? Could those responsible for safeguarding children have been so in denial about what was happening that they could actually believe Rotherham was an exemplar for others to follow? I just cannot bring myself to believe that anyone could consciously write this stuff to cover up something they knew to be happening.
It has been said by many apologists that these British-Pakistani men are outnumbered by white men in paedophilia figures. Once again, if cases like Rotherham are unrecorded, well, they would do!0 -
Which is all very well but given the corruption, immorality, venality, incompetence and negligence exposed in the last decade or so that then excludes the political class, the police, the media, the celebrity classes, sportspeople and just about everyone in public office. There may be the odd one or two who still have pristine reputations but in large part the establishment is now well and truly tainted........david_herdson said:
What really changes behaviour is social disapproval for an act from people whose opinions are valued. Changing laws is a big part of that but it's not sufficient of itself.Toms said:The problem of how to tackle nationwide large scale law breaking is, in practical terms, tricky.
For instance the use of mobile 'phones while driving is illegal, causes deaths, and damages people, but it is still not uncommon though it is decreasing.
Viewed over many thousands of miles from the bicycle saddle I can say that in the early days there was no such law and people routinely carried on such conversations. When it was made illegal the practice certainly decreased, perhaps to many thousands of times a day. Nowadays, with a few successful prosecutions, and also increased fines, I do still see people breaking the law but now also more people are pulling over to talk on their mobiles. This dangerous illegal practice has yet to be stopped, but things are moving in the right direction.
The point? With nation-wide law breaking it may not be feasible to nail all toe-rag criminals at the start in one go. But by gradually tightening the legal machinery and enforcing it, in full measure case by case, a change in behaviour might be effected in the end. Hopefully.0 -
You PBTories all loved Tim, didn't you.Ishmael_X said:
Oh Jesus.SquareRoot said:
I remarked on this weeks back, but who really cares? I care as much as I do about the ludicrous Clacton poll where the Tory candidate had not even been interviewed or adopted by the local CA.GIN1138 said:
I noticed "Hugh" made some very bitchy comments about our cat-loving former POTY the other night.Socrates said:
And he's doing it in exactly the same language ("salivating") as tim once did. Funny that. Maybe they've been sharing notes.SeanT said:
Ah, I see what you are doing.
Appear to be reasonable, but actually try and smear anyone obsessed with THE BIGGGEST SCANDAL IN MODERN BRITISH POLITICS as a "racist, Powellite, cranky salivating wanker".
Etc.
Ad nauseam.
Do f*ck off, there's a good chap.
Then there's all the aside's about "Dave and Sam"
The evidence is growing...
Whilst I think the Cons candidate will lose, polls at this time and of this nature are pointless.
tim was clever, knowledgeable and at times extremely funny. Anyone who detects those qualities in Hugh wants their head feeling.
So much so that he doesn't post here any more.
Perhaps out of concern after his personal details were maliciously revealed, gosh how you brave Tory troopers all valued his input.0 -
In 2002, to cover up an earlier report into child abuse in Rotherham, they ordered documents destroyed.Rexel56 said:Reading minutes of the Rotherham Safeguarding Children's Board to get a better understanding of what went wrong. Found this gem from September 2009:
In relation to other regions in the country, Rotherham is reported to have taken the most proactive approach to dealing with the issue of sexual exploitation. Mr Perry responded that Rotherham therefore has a responsibility to share good practice and added that a recommendation should be made for the Board to commend the work done by staff in this area.
Did they really believe this? Could those responsible for safeguarding children have been so in denial about what was happening that they could actually believe Rotherham was an exemplar for others to follow? I just cannot bring myself to believe that anyone could consciously write this stuff to cover up something they knew to be happening.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11062758/Scandal-hit-Rotherham-deleted-abuse-files.html
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Interesting thought. I notice you see both as 'damage to No' - my impression is that the official BT shares your view as it doesn't seem too eager about the planned UKIP/Mr Farage visit on the ??Friday or Saturday before indyref, or for that matter about the almost simultaneous Orange Order mass march in Edinburgh.HYUFD said:Carnyx Arguably a Farage visit to Glasgow would do less damage to No than a Cameron or Clegg one
Mr F's visit could be more damaging than you think if it reminds people of the possibility of a Tory-UKIP coalition (given the constituency level agreements discussed on this site. But it's relative. You do know Mr C has just been there, but didn't talk to the public, and just attended the private CBI dinner at which he got lectured by the CBI head for his Brexit plans? I suspect the general public sentiment here is moving on from TV debates to a genuine astonishment why isn't he up here more often and in greater degree of engagement if he is fighting heart and soul as he claimed at the time of the Edinburgh Agreement (or words to that effect). Okay, it might be counterproductive on a political level but he would at least be respected for it. But we have 18 days ...
I'm inclined to think Mr Clegg would make little difference, when we have plenty of homegrown LDs (who have mostly kept a very low profile, apart from Moore (ret. hurt) and Carmichael (still at a sticky wicket). Except that if the DPM why not the PM? Which lays the No side wide open to an escalation of the inquiry why Mr Cameron is hiding behind both him and Mr Darling, etc. etc.
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Well, yes. I value intelligence, knowledge and wit very highly. The posting of his personal details was utterly disgraceful.Hugh said:
You PBTories all loved Tim, didn't you.Ishmael_X said:
Oh Jesus.SquareRoot said:
I remarked on this weeks back, but who really cares? I care as much as I do about the ludicrous Clacton poll where the Tory candidate had not even been interviewed or adopted by the local CA.GIN1138 said:
I noticed "Hugh" made some very bitchy comments about our cat-loving former POTY the other night.Socrates said:
And he's doing it in exactly the same language ("salivating") as tim once did. Funny that. Maybe they've been sharing notes.SeanT said:
Ah, I see what you are doing.
Appear to be reasonable, but actually try and smear anyone obsessed with THE BIGGGEST SCANDAL IN MODERN BRITISH POLITICS as a "racist, Powellite, cranky salivating wanker".
Etc.
Ad nauseam.
Do f*ck off, there's a good chap.
Then there's all the aside's about "Dave and Sam"
The evidence is growing...
Whilst I think the Cons candidate will lose, polls at this time and of this nature are pointless.
tim was clever, knowledgeable and at times extremely funny. Anyone who detects those qualities in Hugh wants their head feeling.
So much so that he doesn't post here any more.
Perhaps out of concern after his personal details were maliciously revealed, gosh how you brave Tory troopers all valued his input.
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Very soft spot for William Cobbett myself.Luckyguy1983 said:
No one can tell you who to choose. Unsurprisingly, we have all chosen along vaguely political lines!foxinsoxuk said:
Call me an old leftie, but could I nominate Tom Paine?Socrates said:
Edmund Burke:Luckyguy1983 said:Who is everyone's favourite politician living or dead? I warm to Disraeli the most in character, because I think my brain works a little like his brain worked (not claiming to be a great political thinker btw). A good historian (I forget who) said something like 'His mind was like a catherine wheel, spitting out ideas like sparks. Most fell on dead earth, but occasionally one fell on the straw, caught fire, and illuminated the night' about Disraeli, and I like to think about that when most of my ideas are falling on dead earth.
- British patriot
- Had clear moral clarity
- Supportive of the American rebels
- Opposed to the French revolution
- Anti-slavery
- Anti-colonialism
- Anti-corporate power
- Combined support for liberal rights with gradual reform
- Father of the progressive brand of conservatism
He was in many ways the polar opposite of Burke, apart from also supporting the american revolutionaries, even to the point of being elected to the French revolutionary assembly.
His books "Common Sense" and "The Rights of Man" were the political best sellers of their day, and still read very well.
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King Alfred: no surrender + good mannersLuckyguy1983 said:Who is everyone's favourite politician living or dead? I warm to Disraeli the most in character, because I think my brain works a little like his brain worked (not claiming to be a great political thinker btw). A good historian (I forget who) said something like 'His mind was like a catherine wheel, spitting out ideas like sparks. Most fell on dead earth, but occasionally one fell on the straw, caught fire, and illuminated the night' about Disraeli, and I like to think about that when most of my ideas are falling on dead earth.
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Lol good call. Crap cook mind. But very inclusive, tolerant and appreciative of different cultures for his time.MrJones said:
King Alfred: no surrender + good mannersLuckyguy1983 said:Who is everyone's favourite politician living or dead? I warm to Disraeli the most in character, because I think my brain works a little like his brain worked (not claiming to be a great political thinker btw). A good historian (I forget who) said something like 'His mind was like a catherine wheel, spitting out ideas like sparks. Most fell on dead earth, but occasionally one fell on the straw, caught fire, and illuminated the night' about Disraeli, and I like to think about that when most of my ideas are falling on dead earth.
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"Chris Kelly, Conservative MP for Dudley South, announces he will stand down at the general election next year, after serving one term"
BBC ticker
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The odds just got biggerSmarmeron said:"Chris Kelly, Conservative MP for Dudley South, announces he will stand down at the general election next year, after serving one term"
BBC ticker
"Along with fellow MP Justin Tomlinson, Kelly placed a bet while at university that he would be Prime Minister before the year 2038. He stands to win £500,000 should this happen"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kelly_(British_politician)0 -
The MP of Dudley South has announced he is retiring after one term at the age of 37.0
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The only reaction to spurs now losing 12-0 in our last 3 games vs the red peril is to mess about on betfair...0
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I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy0 -
Not my business... Frau Merkel has a big equity stake... the decision makes sense, even if they have made it for the wrong reasons...HurstLlama said:
In that case move the whole thing and just shut the German end altogether. Frau Merkel will explain to the unions that their total loss is a price that has to be paid for being part of the single market and that Germany is better off as a result.Charles said:
Firm is closing their UK business because the unions demanded it as the price of the last deal...
Come on, Mr. Charles, it was only this morning you were on here having a pop a a poster that suggested the UK would be better off if we were a bit more protectionist. Well, if losing jobs because of overseas competition is good for us it must be good for Germany too. Shut the whole thing down over here and move it to, say, Leicester, the hub of the fastest growing region in the UK, and the home of some jolly good curry houses (not in my experience as good as Leeds, Birmingham or Burgess Hill but good enough for the Germans).0 -
Imagine putting a bet on yourself to become PM?
He sounds like UKIP fodder if he's that much of a c*ck.
Labour are having his seat at a canter before breakfast in 2015 mind.0 -
What's the number of Conservative MPs now standing down after just one term? Tells its own story.0
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8 + Louise + the Cardiff North one (who served from 1992 to 1997, then as MEP from 1999 to 2009, then as MP again from 2010)tory_up_north said:What's the number of Conservative MPs now standing down after just one term? Tells its own story.
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Because they only exist in imaginations.MrJones said:
I haven't been paying attention to any of the possible Labour ones.isam said:I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy
The Right are splitting and it's killing you, leave us on the centre/left out of it, we've done that and it gave you Thatcherism.0 -
0
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I make that 8 Tories throwing in the towel after one term. 9 if you include Mensch.AndreaParma_82 said:The MP of Dudley South has announced he is retiring after one term at the age of 37.
Definitely some kind of record...0 -
Chris Kelly dated Nadine's daughter0
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Do you include Evans from Cardiff North? Otherwise I am missing 1.
South Ribble, Erewash, Hove, North Warwickshire, Cannock Chase, South Thanet, Dudley South
right?RodCrosby said:
I make that 8 Tories throwing in the towel after one term. 9 if you include Mensch.AndreaParma_82 said:The MP of Dudley South has announced he is retiring after one term at the age of 37.
Definitely some kind of record...0 -
Labour had 2 MPs standing down in 2001 after one term: Gloucester and Wolverhampton SW0
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Next step vote of no confidence?
The Independent @Independent · 35m
Exclusive: Tory Eurosceptics to defy Cameron with manifesto pledges to vote to leave EU http://ind.pn/1sTqdgh
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Alexis de Tocquevillefoxinsoxuk said:
Call me an old leftie, but could I nominate Tom Paine?Socrates said:
Edmund Burke:Luckyguy1983 said:Who is everyone's favourite politician living or dead? I warm to Disraeli the most in character, because I think my brain works a little like his brain worked (not claiming to be a great political thinker btw). A good historian (I forget who) said something like 'His mind was like a catherine wheel, spitting out ideas like sparks. Most fell on dead earth, but occasionally one fell on the straw, caught fire, and illuminated the night' about Disraeli, and I like to think about that when most of my ideas are falling on dead earth.
- British patriot
- Had clear moral clarity
- Supportive of the American rebels
- Opposed to the French revolution
- Anti-slavery
- Anti-colonialism
- Anti-corporate power
- Combined support for liberal rights with gradual reform
- Father of the progressive brand of conservatism
He was in many ways the polar opposite of Burke, apart from also supporting the american revolutionaries, even to the point of being elected to the French revolutionary assembly.
His books "Common Sense" and "The Rights of Man" were the political best sellers of their day, and still read very well.0 -
I'd be surprised if there any Labour switchers now as I think the generation that might have done it are mostly at retirement age now. One of them might do it as a swansong just to rock the boat a bit. Could be wrong.Hugh said:
Because they only exist in imaginations.MrJones said:
I haven't been paying attention to any of the possible Labour ones.isam said:I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy
The Right are splitting and it's killing you, leave us on the centre/left out of it, we've done that and it gave you Thatcherism.
On the other thing I think there's a reasonable chance of Labour losing a lot - even most - of the centre-left vote to the Libs over the grooming gangs if they can't figure out a response.
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The difference is that Thatcherism turned around the British economy from 1970s socialism to the booming success of the 1990s. Ed Miliband is going to give us what France is going through. Come 2020 we'll have a united, eurosceptic Right that will restore Britain to being a true success story again.Hugh said:
Because they only exist in imaginations.MrJones said:
I haven't been paying attention to any of the possible Labour ones.isam said:I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy
The Right are splitting and it's killing you, leave us on the centre/left out of it, we've done that and it gave you Thatcherism.0 -
Hugh your comments on Louise Mensch are potentially defamatory - So you can add anything Rupert Murdoch and Louise Mensch related to the list of topics you're not permitted to talk about.0
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Hugh said:
Because they only exist in imaginations.MrJones said:
I haven't been paying attention to any of the possible Labour ones.isam said:I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy
The Right are splitting and it's killing you, leave us on the centre/left out of it, we've done that and it gave you Thatcherism.
I think you're confused. A split party is bad. A split 'sector' over two parties is great. Look at Coke and Pepsi; their rivalry has vastly increased interest in the sector for over half a decade. Have you not noticed the fact that the right has been consistently outpolling the left recently?Hugh said:
Because they only exist in imaginations.MrJones said:
I haven't been paying attention to any of the possible Labour ones.isam said:I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy
The Right are splitting and it's killing you, leave us on the centre/left out of it, we've done that and it gave you Thatcherism.
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On your first point, Andrew Rawnsley's article in the Observer today is worth a read.MrJones said:
I'd be surprised if there any Labour switchers now as I think the generation that might have done it are mostly at retirement age now. One of them might do it as a swansong just to rock the boat a bit. Could be wrong.Hugh said:
Because they only exist in imaginations.MrJones said:
I haven't been paying attention to any of the possible Labour ones.isam said:I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy
The Right are splitting and it's killing you, leave us on the centre/left out of it, we've done that and it gave you Thatcherism.
On the other thing I think there's a reasonable chance of Labour losing a lot - even most - of the centre-left vote to the Libs over the grooming gangs if they can't figure out a response.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/31/douglas-carswell-tory-schism-battle-over-europe0 -
So all good rightwingers should campaign for Labour next year to secure a true victory in 2020?Socrates said:Ed Miliband is going to give us what France is going through. Come 2020 we'll have a united, eurosceptic Right that will restore Britain to being a true success story again.
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Maybe - but the Tory losses to UKIP are far greater. As long as LAB is losing fewer voters in marginals than CON then they win seats.isam said:I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy
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Woah what?!?! I kinda understand the other thing but....PBModerator said:Hugh your comments on Louise Mensch are potentially defamatory - So you can add anything Rupert Murdoch and Louise Mensch related to the list of topics you're not permitted to talk about.
OK, your rules.
Understood.0 -
It's like the 'good old days' tonight with one poster providing loads of work to the moderator... plus ca change.0
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Reminds me of this speech (from 1.05 onwards)PBModerator said:Hugh your comments on Louise Mensch are potentially defamatory - So you can add anything Rupert Murdoch and Louise Mensch related to the list of topics you're not permitted to talk about.
(having watched it again, it really is one of the worst speeches I recall)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOx8q3eGq3g0 -
Tom Paine was one of the nasty types always egging on the extreme end of the Revolution, one that led France into the abyss.foxinsoxuk said:
Call me an old leftie, but could I nominate Tom Paine?Socrates said:
Edmund Burke:Luckyguy1983 said:Who is everyone's favourite politician living or dead? I warm to Disraeli the most in character, because I think my brain works a little like his brain worked (not claiming to be a great political thinker btw). A good historian (I forget who) said something like 'His mind was like a catherine wheel, spitting out ideas like sparks. Most fell on dead earth, but occasionally one fell on the straw, caught fire, and illuminated the night' about Disraeli, and I like to think about that when most of my ideas are falling on dead earth.
- British patriot
- Had clear moral clarity
- Supportive of the American rebels
- Opposed to the French revolution
- Anti-slavery
- Anti-colonialism
- Anti-corporate power
- Combined support for liberal rights with gradual reform
- Father of the progressive brand of conservatism
He was in many ways the polar opposite of Burke, apart from also supporting the american revolutionaries, even to the point of being elected to the French revolutionary assembly.
His books "Common Sense" and "The Rights of Man" were the political best sellers of their day, and still read very well.0 -
Consequences change behaviour.david_herdson said:
What really changes behaviour is social disapproval for an act from people whose opinions are valued. Changing laws is a big part of that but it's not sufficient of itself.Toms said:The problem of how to tackle nationwide large scale law breaking is, in practical terms, tricky.
For instance the use of mobile 'phones while driving is illegal, causes deaths, and damages people, but it is still not uncommon though it is decreasing.
Viewed over many thousands of miles from the bicycle saddle I can say that in the early days there was no such law and people routinely carried on such conversations. When it was made illegal the practice certainly decreased, perhaps to many thousands of times a day. Nowadays, with a few successful prosecutions, and also increased fines, I do still see people breaking the law but now also more people are pulling over to talk on their mobiles. This dangerous illegal practice has yet to be stopped, but things are moving in the right direction.
The point? With nation-wide law breaking it may not be feasible to nail all toe-rag criminals at the start in one go. But by gradually tightening the legal machinery and enforcing it, in full measure case by case, a change in behaviour might be effected in the end. Hopefully.
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Carnyx As I said, UKIP now has 1/6 Scottish MEPs, Yes cannot now play the card that Scotland is 'a UKIP free zone.' As for Cameron, Farage and Clegg none live in Scotland and so none can vote and none should play or have played a significant part in the campaign0
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Would have been better to music, perhaps?Charles said:
Reminds me of this speech (from 1.05 onwards)PBModerator said:Hugh your comments on Louise Mensch are potentially defamatory - So you can add anything Rupert Murdoch and Louise Mensch related to the list of topics you're not permitted to talk about.
(having watched it again, it really is one of the worst speeches I recall)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOx8q3eGq3g0 -
To clarify, that's anything discussing the connections between those two in particular, right?PBModerator said:Hugh your comments on Louise Mensch are potentially defamatory - So you can add anything Rupert Murdoch and Louise Mensch related to the list of topics you're not permitted to talk about.
Just that "anything Rupert Murdoch related" is a pretty big net...a link to the Times, for example...0 -
It's ironic that BT proudly embrace the support of multimillionaire pop stars in England or Switzerland or wherever, but are embarassed of their own UK MP's.HYUFD said:Carnyx As I said, UKIP now has 1/6 Scottish MEPs, Yes cannot now play the card that Scotland is 'a UKIP free zone.' As for Cameron, Farage and Clegg none live in Scotland and so none can vote and none should play or have played a significant part in the campaign
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Andrea Astonishing news, I remember attending events, canvass days, conferences etc with Chris Kelly as a student when I was with Warwick Tories and he was with Oxford Brookes, we did not really know each other, but am astonished he has not only now been elected to Parliament but is now standing down, barely more than 10 years later! I know his father had a successful trucking business, perhaps he wants to take over the family firm and feels his prospects are not that bright next year, but we shall see0
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We're getting a lot of thinkers mentioned! I was thinking more of UK parliamentarians, but I didn't say that. My favourite thinkers are Hobbes and Machiavelli.0
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Socrates So you want to see our economy move from being the fastest growing in the EU and G7 to going down the toilet, have Cameron involved in a corruption scandal and Farage move left on economic issues but right on a hardline anti immigration, anti EU message emulating Marine Le Pen?0
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Smart. Might make me reconsider voting Tory if my local candidate does it. I still need to know what they'd do on immigration though. How are they going to get non-EU migration down to 50k.isam said:Next step vote of no confidence?
The Independent @Independent · 35m
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Bevan, Brown, Cook, Kennedy, Portillo, Heseltine, Major, Cromwell...Luckyguy1983 said:We're getting a lot of thinkers mentioned! I was thinking more of UK parliamentarians, but I didn't say that. My favourite thinkers are Hobbes and Machiavelli.
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It is anything to do with either of those.Hugh said:
To clarify, that's anything discussing the connections between those two in particular, right?PBModerator said:Hugh your comments on Louise Mensch are potentially defamatory - So you can add anything Rupert Murdoch and Louise Mensch related to the list of topics you're not permitted to talk about.
Just that "anything Rupert Murdoch related" is a pretty big net...a link to the Times, for example...
A link to the Times, the Sun or anything publication ultimately owned by Rupert Murdoch is fine.0 -
Paddy have cut UKIP over 9.5% to 4/6, but you can still get better than that by combining Lads 10-15% & 15-20% bands at 7/4 & 4/1 which comes to just better than 8/11MikeSmithson said:
Maybe - but the Tory losses to UKIP are far greater. As long as LAB is losing fewer voters in marginals than CON then they win seats.isam said:I wonder who the Labour MPs that will defect to UKIP will be?
That WWC vote is gonna leave them in droves next MAy
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/ukip-vote-percentage
The danger there being over 20% I guess, which could happen with those Northern Labour votes
EDIT
ex Labour votes0 -
Yes, 8 plus Mensch, as far as I'm aware.AndreaParma_82 said:Do you include Evans from Cardiff North? Otherwise I am missing 1.
South Ribble, Erewash, Hove, North Warwickshire, Cannock Chase, South Thanet, Dudley South
right?RodCrosby said:
I make that 8 Tories throwing in the towel after one term. 9 if you include Mensch.AndreaParma_82 said:The MP of Dudley South has announced he is retiring after one term at the age of 37.
Definitely some kind of record...0 -
I'll take Cromwell (with reservations) the rest of that bunch you can keep.Hugh said:
Bevan, Brown, Cook, Kennedy, Portillo, Heseltine, Major, Cromwell...Luckyguy1983 said:We're getting a lot of thinkers mentioned! I was thinking more of UK parliamentarians, but I didn't say that. My favourite thinkers are Hobbes and Machiavelli.
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for a social animal social exclusion is a huge consequenceLuckyguy1983 said:
Consequences change behaviour.david_herdson said:
What really changes behaviour is social disapproval for an act from people whose opinions are valued. Changing laws is a big part of that but it's not sufficient of itself.Toms said:The problem of how to tackle nationwide large scale law breaking is, in practical terms, tricky.
For instance the use of mobile 'phones while driving is illegal, causes deaths, and damages people, but it is still not uncommon though it is decreasing.
Viewed over many thousands of miles from the bicycle saddle I can say that in the early days there was no such law and people routinely carried on such conversations. When it was made illegal the practice certainly decreased, perhaps to many thousands of times a day. Nowadays, with a few successful prosecutions, and also increased fines, I do still see people breaking the law but now also more people are pulling over to talk on their mobiles. This dangerous illegal practice has yet to be stopped, but things are moving in the right direction.
The point? With nation-wide law breaking it may not be feasible to nail all toe-rag criminals at the start in one go. But by gradually tightening the legal machinery and enforcing it, in full measure case by case, a change in behaviour might be effected in the end. Hopefully.0 -
I think we might have to go back to the Seventies to find a single Tory MP voluntarily stepping down after one term. [There have been a handful since, but they either seem to have been under some sort of cloud, or lost out in boundary changes]AndreaParma_82 said:Labour had 2 MPs standing down in 2001 after one term: Gloucester and Wolverhampton SW
Now 8 (or 9) in one go... remarkable!0 -
Perhaps, Mr. Hyfud, he has worked out that being lobby fodder for Cameron is not actually a great career for a bright young man. Good for him. I don't for one moment suppose that his majority of just 3k had anything to do with his decision.HYUFD said:Andrea Astonishing news, I remember attending events, canvass days, conferences etc with Chris Kelly as a student when I was with Warwick Tories and he was with Oxford Brookes, we did not really know each other, but am astonished he has not only now been elected to Parliament but is now standing down, barely more than 10 years later! I know his father had a successful trucking business, perhaps he wants to take over the family firm and feels his prospects are not that bright next year, but we shall see
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The perpetrators in Rotherham faced neither social or legal disapproval, hence no consequenses.Luckyguy1983 said:
Consequences change behaviour.david_herdson said:
What really changes behaviour is social disapproval for an act from people whose opinions are valued. Changing laws is a big part of that but it's not sufficient of itself.Toms said:The problem of how to tackle nationwide large scale law breaking is, in practical terms, tricky.
For instance the use of mobile 'phones while driving is illegal, causes deaths, and damages people, but it is still not uncommon though it is decreasing.
Viewed over many thousands of miles from the bicycle saddle I can say that in the early days there was no such law and people routinely carried on such conversations. When it was made illegal the practice certainly decreased, perhaps to many thousands of times a day. Nowadays, with a few successful prosecutions, and also increased fines, I do still see people breaking the law but now also more people are pulling over to talk on their mobiles. This dangerous illegal practice has yet to be stopped, but things are moving in the right direction.
The point? With nation-wide law breaking it may not be feasible to nail all toe-rag criminals at the start in one go. But by gradually tightening the legal machinery and enforcing it, in full measure case by case, a change in behaviour might be effected in the end. Hopefully.
0 -
Oh, I absolutely agree. I just think consequences sums it up. We all look for antecedents ( culture, religion, upbringing) to explain behaviour. But consequences are where the answer lies.MrJones said:
for a social animal social exclusion is a huge consequenceLuckyguy1983 said:
Consequences change behaviour.david_herdson said:
What really changes behaviour is social disapproval for an act from people whose opinions are valued. Changing laws is a big part of that but it's not sufficient of itself.Toms said:The problem of how to tackle nationwide large scale law breaking is, in practical terms, tricky.
For instance the use of mobile 'phones while driving is illegal, causes deaths, and damages people, but it is still not uncommon though it is decreasing.
Viewed over many thousands of miles from the bicycle saddle I can say that in the early days there was no such law and people routinely carried on such conversations. When it was made illegal the practice certainly decreased, perhaps to many thousands of times a day. Nowadays, with a few successful prosecutions, and also increased fines, I do still see people breaking the law but now also more people are pulling over to talk on their mobiles. This dangerous illegal practice has yet to be stopped, but things are moving in the right direction.
The point? With nation-wide law breaking it may not be feasible to nail all toe-rag criminals at the start in one go. But by gradually tightening the legal machinery and enforcing it, in full measure case by case, a change in behaviour might be effected in the end. Hopefully.
0 -
For the first half, I don't want it, I just think it will happen.HYUFD said:Socrates So you want to see our economy move from being the fastest growing in the EU and G7 to going down the toilet, have Cameron involved in a corruption scandal and Farage move left on economic issues but right on a hardline anti immigration, anti EU message emulating Marine Le Pen?
I wouldn't want to emulate Marine Le Pen at all, as she's a horrible racist. I would like a pro-independence platform and a controlled immigration platform. Among other things.0 -
Turning the pressure up on cam
David Jack (@DJack_Journo)
31/08/2014 22:46
Seven out of ten voters want free movement within the EU stopped, says @ConHome poll in @thetimes pic.twitter.com/P2g2RpPBt40 -
Exactly.foxinsoxuk said:
The perpetrators in Rotherham faced neither social or legal disapproval, hence no consequenses.Luckyguy1983 said:
Consequences change behaviour.david_herdson said:
What really changes behaviour is social disapproval for an act from people whose opinions are valued. Changing laws is a big part of that but it's not sufficient of itself.Toms said:The problem of how to tackle nationwide large scale law breaking is, in practical terms, tricky.
For instance the use of mobile 'phones while driving is illegal, causes deaths, and damages people, but it is still not uncommon though it is decreasing.
Viewed over many thousands of miles from the bicycle saddle I can say that in the early days there was no such law and people routinely carried on such conversations. When it was made illegal the practice certainly decreased, perhaps to many thousands of times a day. Nowadays, with a few successful prosecutions, and also increased fines, I do still see people breaking the law but now also more people are pulling over to talk on their mobiles. This dangerous illegal practice has yet to be stopped, but things are moving in the right direction.
The point? With nation-wide law breaking it may not be feasible to nail all toe-rag criminals at the start in one go. But by gradually tightening the legal machinery and enforcing it, in full measure case by case, a change in behaviour might be effected in the end. Hopefully.
0 -
fair pointLuckyguy1983 said:
Oh, I absolutely agree. I just think consequences sums it up. We all look for antecedents ( culture, religion, upbringing) to explain behaviour. But consequences are where the answer lies.MrJones said:
for a social animal social exclusion is a huge consequenceLuckyguy1983 said:
Consequences change behaviour.david_herdson said:
What really changes behaviour is social disapproval for an act from people whose opinions are valued. Changing laws is a big part of that but it's not sufficient of itself.Toms said:The problem of how to tackle nationwide large scale law breaking is, in practical terms, tricky.
For instance the use of mobile 'phones while driving is illegal, causes deaths, and damages people, but it is still not uncommon though it is decreasing.
Viewed over many thousands of miles from the bicycle saddle I can say that in the early days there was no such law and people routinely carried on such conversations. When it was made illegal the practice certainly decreased, perhaps to many thousands of times a day. Nowadays, with a few successful prosecutions, and also increased fines, I do still see people breaking the law but now also more people are pulling over to talk on their mobiles. This dangerous illegal practice has yet to be stopped, but things are moving in the right direction.
The point? With nation-wide law breaking it may not be feasible to nail all toe-rag criminals at the start in one go. But by gradually tightening the legal machinery and enforcing it, in full measure case by case, a change in behaviour might be effected in the end. Hopefully.0 -
(OT)
(monthly statistics as requested)
As returning officer for the Worldwide Association for the Assessment, Appreciation and Advancement of Gorgeousness and Hunkiness (WAAAAGH), I hereby give notice that the number of votes cast for each candidate in the 12 months from September 2013 to August 2014 (and the changes since last month) was as follows:
1. Daniel Radcliffe 100 (-16)
2. Gareth Bale 75 (-7)
3. Ivan Garcia 74 (+0)
4. Peter Phillips 64 (+0)
5. Prince Louis of Luxembourg 49 (-1)
6. Freddie Woodward 35 (new entrant)
7. (down 1) Alex Pettyfer 28 (-1)
8. (down 1) Dane DeHaan 28 (+0)
9. (down 1) Prince Harry 27 (+0)
10. (down 1) Skandar Keynes 23 (-3)
11. (down 1) Ben Hardy 22 (+2)
12. Jamie Bell 12 (+0)
13. (down 2) Shaun Smith 9 (-3)
14. (down 1) Liam Payne 5 (-1)
15. (down 1) Danny Casey 5 (+0)
16. (down 1) Gil Yehezkel 5 (+0)
17. (down 1) Austin Butler 4 (+0)
18. (down 1) James Alexandrou 4 (+0)
19. (down 1) Adam Gemili 2 (+0)
Total 571 (+5)0 -
His father is aparently very Eurosceptic. There was a commons rebellion, I forgetting what over, where his father was insisting he vote one way but Cameron was bullying him the other. Think I read this on conhome. Can't have been much fun.HurstLlama said:
Perhaps, Mr. Hyfud, he has worked out that being lobby fodder for Cameron is not actually a great career for a bright young man. Good for him. I don't for one moment suppose that his majority of just 3k had anything to do with his decision.HYUFD said:Andrea Astonishing news, I remember attending events, canvass days, conferences etc with Chris Kelly as a student when I was with Warwick Tories and he was with Oxford Brookes, we did not really know each other, but am astonished he has not only now been elected to Parliament but is now standing down, barely more than 10 years later! I know his father had a successful trucking business, perhaps he wants to take over the family firm and feels his prospects are not that bright next year, but we shall see
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A monstering of "the other" - the source of all that ails us and the quick fix to all our problems is getting out of it, with no conceivable downside - our former partners will give us all we want - they'll be sorry if they don't.MonikerDiCanio said:
I disagree, Salmond and Farage are fishing in the same pool. That's why Eck loathes and fears UKIP so much.Carnyx said:MonikerDiCanio said:
UKIP is the fastest growing party in Scotland so I'm sure the YESNP will be keen to organize a passionate group of greeters.malcolmg said:
Should be fun him in Glasgow and Orange Order in Edinburgh next day , sure to boost YES by a big margin. All we need now are BT's other nice friends to follow suit and it will be a walkover.MikeK said:BBC Scotland News @BBCScotlandNews 5h
UKIP leader Nigel Farage is to address a pro-Union rally in Glasgow ahead of the #indyref vote http://bbc.in/1zYWFR5
Interesting point to raise. My gut feeling is however that the people who'd be attracted by Mr F's visit are hardcore No anyway, and voting No already. A quick check for Glasgow confirms that UKIP did poorly in the Euros, below the Greens (but above the Tories, though this was an Euro election). (Different turnout for indyref is, however, a big joker in the pack.)HYUFD said:David Herdson Indeed, if Farage gets all the Scottish voters who voted for UKIP in May to vote No that would help in a tight race, he will make little difference to the Yes total either way, Yes voters who hate him will still vote Yes and No Labour and LD voters who dislike him will be residents of Edinburgh town houses not the working class Labour voters who could swing the election, they will like his populist message on immigration
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/labour-wins-most-city-votes-in-euro-elections-165006n.24326661
A nasty old tune dressed up in prettier garb - yet just as ugly underneath when the mask slips.
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HurstLlama I think your last sentence probably hits the nail on the head, but this election is the most open for years, anything can happen? Although on the right hopefully he will not move to the Kippers but time will tell0
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Socrates I would rather not have the rise in unemployment, falling growth and deteriorating finances for a long-shot at the second coming of Thatcher!0
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e.g. Roy Thomason 1997, Bromsgrove. Facing bankruptcy, he was secretly bailed out by the Tory party. When the facts became known, it transpired he had "forgotten" to declare it. Constituency party re-opened nominations. Stood down after one term...RodCrosby said:
I think we might have to go back to the Seventies to find a single Tory MP voluntarily stepping down after one term. [There have been a handful since, but they either seem to have been under some sort of cloud, or lost out in boundary changes]AndreaParma_82 said:Labour had 2 MPs standing down in 2001 after one term: Gloucester and Wolverhampton SW
Now 8 (or 9) in one go... remarkable!0 -
People trying to lay Labour at 64/1 on Betfair for Clacton
Wonder if the bookies got any mug money at 10s?0 -
MPs used to be respected, now they are actively loathed by many people.
Probably explains why so many young MPs are standing down. They don't want the stigma.
Older MPs like Ken Clarke and Alan Haselhurst are too old to care about it.0 -
His rather pretty wife is a Labour councillor in Rochdale.isam said:What price Simon Danczuk to UKIP?
Wrote a friendly piece in the Mail about UKIP, fair enough
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2638411/Memo-Ed-Weve-got-stop-treating-UKIP-like-swivel-eyed-lepers-says-Labour-MP-youre-wondering-heres-eat-bacon-butty.html
But today he has written for Breitbart, which is the most pro UKIP news site on the interweb!
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/31/Lessons-learned-from-Rotherham-Simon-DanczukMP
Farage in The Sun today said
"We are going all out for the working class vote now. Five of our most winnable seats are Labour held and there are even some Labour MP's thinking of joining us.. I'll be going hell for leather in these northern seats"
I reckon Danczuk to UKIP is not a million to one
That complicates matters.0 -
0
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LuckyGuy1983 Indeed, I expect the family business may also prove more profitable than the Commons in the long run too0
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Roma gypsies buying and selling 14 year old brides #immigration
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2738979/Romany-Gypsy-father-offers-3-500-14-year-old-wife-son-Documentary-sees-diaspora-continue-illegally-marry-children-UK.html0 -
There's a lot in that. I've had a *lot* of comments from both current and former MPs, saying in effect: "You have a good job that you enjoy but you're willing to be an MP again? That's bonkers!"AndyJS said:MPs used to be respected, now they are actively loathed by many people.
Probably explains why so many young MPs are standing down. They don't want the stigma.
Older MPs like Ken Clarke and Alan Haselhurst are too old to care about it.
0 -
Tory MPs to announce their retirements in the last 3 months:
Chris Kelly (36)
Mark Simmonds (50)
David Ruffley (52)
Dan Byles (40)
Andrew Lansley (57)
Greg Barker (48)
David Willetts (58)
William Hague (53)
John Randall (59)
Mike Weatherley (57)
James Clappison (57)
Average age = 51.5.
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Dudley South was one of UKIP's better 2010 results.Smarmeron said:"Chris Kelly, Conservative MP for Dudley South, announces he will stand down at the general election next year, after serving one term"
BBC ticker
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dDZoVmdlVXBEQVNvcUNfR294UXo0S3c#gid=0
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/dudleysouth/
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UKIP have selected 208 candidates so far. Men: 191, women: 17. "Nigel": 5.0
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Kelly might be the youngest person to voluntarily leave the Commons in quite a while...AndyJS said:Tory MPs to announce their retirements in the last 3 months:
Chris Kelly (36)
Mark Simmonds (50)
David Ruffley (52)
Dan Byles (40)
Andrew Lansley (57)
Greg Barker (48)
David Willetts (58)
William Hague (53)
John Randall (59)
Mike Weatherley (57)
James Clappison (57)
Average age = 51.5.0 -
I thought Alan Amos might have been around the same age but in fact he was 39 when he had to stand down from Hexham after one term in 1992.RodCrosby said:
Kelly might be the youngest person to voluntarily leave the Commons in quite a while...AndyJS said:Tory MPs to announce their retirements in the last 3 months:
Chris Kelly (36)
Mark Simmonds (50)
David Ruffley (52)
Dan Byles (40)
Andrew Lansley (57)
Greg Barker (48)
David Willetts (58)
William Hague (53)
John Randall (59)
Mike Weatherley (57)
James Clappison (57)
Average age = 51.5.0 -
Bobby Sands the youngest volunteer.RodCrosby said:
Kelly might be the youngest person to voluntarily leave the Commons in quite a while...AndyJS said:Tory MPs to announce their retirements in the last 3 months:
Chris Kelly (36)
Mark Simmonds (50)
David Ruffley (52)
Dan Byles (40)
Andrew Lansley (57)
Greg Barker (48)
David Willetts (58)
William Hague (53)
John Randall (59)
Mike Weatherley (57)
James Clappison (57)
Average age = 51.5.0 -
Not actually. Aside from the fact that Sands, 27, would have preferred to live, rather than die, there were two younger who voluntarily stood down.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
Bobby Sands the youngest volunteer.RodCrosby said:
Kelly might be the youngest person to voluntarily leave the Commons in quite a while...AndyJS said:Tory MPs to announce their retirements in the last 3 months:
Chris Kelly (36)
Mark Simmonds (50)
David Ruffley (52)
Dan Byles (40)
Andrew Lansley (57)
Greg Barker (48)
David Willetts (58)
William Hague (53)
John Randall (59)
Mike Weatherley (57)
James Clappison (57)
Average age = 51.5.
John Esmonde, 25, 1918
John Wodehouse, 26, 1910 (the model for "Bertie Wooster")0 -
On Chris Kelly: who can blame him? The majority of parliamentarians have no prospect of achieving office and the vast majority have no prospect of achieving high office. The pay is well below what most can earn outside the House, and claiming allowances, even in accordance with the rules, is fraught with risks. By being an MP approximately half the population automatically hold you in low esteem. By aligning yourself with a party, 75% do. Much of your work is repetitive and of little consequence. On matters of great consequence you are likely to be compelled by the whip. The job lacks the glamour and excitement many outside assume it must have; attempts to find that excitement often end up with a double-page spread in the Mail on Sunday, an expensive divorce and a wry smile. You are pilloried if you stray off message, and condemned as an automaton if you do not. Your motives are suspected by many. Your hours are long and arduous. Your colleagues are ghastly. Your brilliance goes unrewarded, while a callow schoolboy gets the business brief and a fool is made chair of your party. Your voters are unforgiving. Your fortunes intertwined with your party.
I have nothing but admiration for those who stand, but we really should reflect on whether the system encourages or dissuades good candidates from putting themselves forward and staying once there!0 -
"Your hours are long and arduous. Your colleagues are ghastly. Your brilliance goes unrewarded, while a callow schoolboy gets the business brief and a fool is made chair of your party."
Funniest thing I've read for a long time!0 -
Stop the Tory SNP privatisation of the NHS in England Scotland:
SHAMELESS Alex Neil and Nicola Sturgeon were urged to explain themselves or resign last night over a secretive attempt to privatise the Scottish NHS by the back door.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/505304/EXCLUSIVE-The-secret-sell-out-of-Scotland-s-NHS?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+daily-express-uk-news+(Daily+Express+::+UK+Feed)
The Telegraph has learned that Weight Watchers, the US-based international weight loss company, has won a two-year contract to provide 4,000 overweight patients with weight management guidance in the west of Scotland.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11066699/Alex-Salmond-accused-of-hypocrisy-over-warnings-about-privatisation-of-NHS.html0 -
And your enemies sit behind you, as Churchill said...AndyJS said:"Your hours are long and arduous. Your colleagues are ghastly. Your brilliance goes unrewarded, while a callow schoolboy gets the business brief and a fool is made chair of your party."
Funniest thing I've read for a long time!0 -
UKIP Hyndburn reveal their dream election result:
"UKIP 352, Con 142, Lab 102, LD 16, Oth 36"
twitter.com/UKIPHyndburn/status/4775720012223692810 -
Fantastic !Flockers_pb said:On Chris Kelly: who can blame him? The majority of parliamentarians have no prospect of achieving office and the vast majority have no prospect of achieving high office. The pay is well below what most can earn outside the House, and claiming allowances, even in accordance with the rules, is fraught with risks. By being an MP approximately half the population automatically hold you in low esteem. By aligning yourself with a party, 75% do. Much of your work is repetitive and of little consequence. On matters of great consequence you are likely to be compelled by the whip. The job lacks the glamour and excitement many outside assume it must have; attempts to find that excitement often end up with a double-page spread in the Mail on Sunday, an expensive divorce and a wry smile. You are pilloried if you stray off message, and condemned as an automaton if you do not. Your motives are suspected by many. Your hours are long and arduous. Your colleagues are ghastly. Your brilliance goes unrewarded, while a callow schoolboy gets the business brief and a fool is made chair of your party. Your voters are unforgiving. Your fortunes intertwined with your party.
I have nothing but admiration for those who stand, but we really should reflect on whether the system encourages or dissuades good candidates from putting themselves forward and staying once there!
0 -
Con selection, Tynemouth: Glenn Hall.
http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2014/08/great-grimsby-tynemouth-and-bury-south-select-their-candidates.html0 -
ConHome — "There should be a full open primary to pick the Conservative candidate in Clacton"
http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2014/08/there-should-be-a-full-open-primary-to-pick-the-conservative-candidate-in-clacton.html0 -
It would be brilliant if we could just click on any archive film like that and find out the name, date or whatever of the people shown on screen. Even the youngest interviewee in that clip was about 35-to-45 so probably those vox pops are all dead by now.isam said:Check this out from 1965.... The public's opinion on whether Enoch would make a good leader
http://www.macearchive.org/Archive/Title/atv-today-26071965-enoch-powell-vox-pops/MediaEntry/25428.html
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Sky vox-pop in Grimsby implies UKIP on at least 26%...0
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Can't fault their enthusiasm:
"Conservatives in Cambridge deliver over 36000 leaflets over the weekend"
http://nickclarkeconservative.wordpress.com/2014/08/31/conservatives-in-cambridge-deliver-over-36000-leaflets-over-the-weekend/0 -
@flockers_pbAndyJS said:"Your hours are long and arduous. Your colleagues are ghastly. Your brilliance goes unrewarded, while a callow schoolboy gets the business brief and a fool is made chair of your party."
Funniest thing I've read for a long time!
Great stuff. More!0 -
I think it an excellent idea. The by election would have to be a bit later in the year, but with Carswell apparently so far in the lead, why hurry a defeat? In the delay period there are all sorts of possibilities for things to improve, and for the novelty to wear off.AndyJS said:ConHome — "There should be a full open primary to pick the Conservative candidate in Clacton"
http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2014/08/there-should-be-a-full-open-primary-to-pick-the-conservative-candidate-in-clacton.html
It is also quite possible that there will be friction between Carswells libertarian agenda and the wwc social conservatives, and indeed between Farage and the principled individualist/ loose cannon Carswell.0 -
It occurs to me that betting on UKIP winning constituencies in 2015, but not winning any with a coastline, is a bit like betting on the Conservative Party getting a majority of seats but with Labour getting the plurality of votes.0