They might also issue that kind of threat in order to scare perpetrators they don't know about to take actions to cover-up that they might be watching for.
Doesn't that put victims under threat of being silenced?
Possibly. Hard to comment without knowing what the police know.
Why haven't feminists organised a march through Rotherham in support of their ideals? I bet they would have done in the 60s or 70s.
Feminists have a challenge over how to react to Rotherham. A lot of them feel that the focus on the ethnic dimension of the crimes is a distraction from the fact that - as with TV and Radio personalities, as with priests, as with MPs, the perpetrators have something else in common - their gender. Whether the fact that a large proportion of society takes a 19th Century view of women is a reason for turning a blind eye to a section which takes a 13th Century view is left as an exercise to the reader.
Most sex offenders are male; hardly a revelation.
For your information, 81% of victims of clerical child abuse victims in the USA were male, a fact Peter Tatchell, the BBC and our very own TSE seem not to mention, despite their inordinate interest in the subject.
Of course most the clerical child abuse victims were male. Priests weren't given unrestricted access to young girls.
1. You are putting your only extrapolations on my post and then calling it dangerous. To avoid discussing such things because of what you imagine it "conjures up" is the same mentality that prevented people looking into such things for so many years. It is rather reminiscent of this article: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jan/07/grooming-racialising-crime-tradition
2. At no point in my post did I mention the number of abusers. While one girl claimed 250 men raped her, we do not know whether it was the same rapists preying on most the girls or indeed several different groups. That's why I came up with an estimation that did not depend on it. So your comment on the extrapolation of abusers not coinciding with those of victims does not matter.
3. My estimation did not come up with similar numbers to Rotherham. I made the assumption of it happening with less than half the victims in other towns. No less than Professor Jay suggested similar failings were likely seen elsewhere.
4. The court cases resulting in convictions so far have suggested the abuse has indeed happened over similar years.
I know you did not put the number of abusers in your post. Thats why I chose to discuss it. Your speculations and extrapolations are just that. And I repeat I think bandying around such figures is dangerous. This does not mean that we should not investigate further to find out some facts - its clearly important. At the moment Parliament is in recess. This does not mean to say that this incident and others are not utterly appalling and a shocking stain on our country. It is also a shocking stain on the Pakistani community - I am happy to say that because it is of great importance that it is said. But these rapes should have been stopped 16 years ago. And why they were not is also a shocking stain. There is no excuse for these rapes beginning in the first place but stopping them should have been the first step in changing the Pakistani culture in the UK. I am more than happy to be in the forefront of condemning 'multiculturalism'; more than happy to agree with Cameron's words condemning it.
What I do find strange is the difference between ISIS where there were clamours to recall parliament and this revelation where there has been none.
Is now a good time to buy Euros? I can get 1.24.5 at the moment. What will happen in next 4 weeks before my hols?
The best, easily accessible rate, that I found before our recent trip to Fuessen was M&S, if you have their credit card. If not Moneycorp, order online and then pick up in person from a limited number of airports. However, it's also really worth looking into the Halifax Clarity card (Mastercard) and putting as much of your purchases on that. Also use it to withdraw Euros from foreign ATMs. BTW the best I could get for cash in the UK a few weeks back was 1.228, so your rate looks quite good.
Any tips re accomodation in the area , I am planning to go to that area next year , where did you stay whilst there.
BBC Scotland News @BBCScotlandNews 5h UKIP leader Nigel Farage is to address a pro-Union rally in Glasgow ahead of the #indyref vote http://bbc.in/1zYWFR5
Should be fun him in Glasgow and Orange Order in Edinburgh next day , sure to boost YES by a big margin. All we need now are BT's other nice friends to follow suit and it will be a walkover.
Yes, that's my understanding of the situation around 1938 too.
It's obviously difficult to be very accurate but my impression (based on the literature as well as visits and reports from German and Austrian friends) is that in and around Vienna support for the Nazis was around 50%, which would have been more than sufficient for them to engineer an enthusiastic welcome. In other cities and the countryside, support would likely have been less but it's very hard to be sure.
You are absolutely right about the Bavarian comparison however. Ohne Zweigel!
I don't think the Nazis engineered the welcome that much. Supposedly Hitler was so surprised at the welcome that he changed the plans for Austria from being a puppet state to direct annexation into the Reich.
It's a tricky one, Socrates.
My main source is Making Friends With Hitler, an intriguing biography of Lord Londonderry, by Ian Kershaw. Here's a good review.
If you spent some time in the villages you would be convinced that they are all racists and Nazis, in Vienna you would probably get the completely opposite impression. A bit like Switzerland vis a vis cities v countryside. I am talking about twenty years ago, things have changed since then.
Ah, right. I understand now and I think I'd broadly agree.
continuing the long line of conservative nutters who believe insulting the electorate is the way to go.
They deserve to lose.
Presumably he was drunk at the time. But Hayes.... I admit to being surprised, he has not been an MP since 1997. So perhaps you are giving him more credence than he deserves. Being notorious is part of how he makes his living.
MalcolmG UKIP won 10% of the Scottish vote in May, he is not part of the official BT campaign, but you cannot dismiss so lightly 1 in 10 Scottish voters
This is a dangerously speculative extrapolation - indeed extrapolation on top of extrapolation. Clearly if anything like true it is deeply worrying. But. First there needs to be some realistic evidence about both other towns (of which there is some) and the scale. There is no doubt about child abuse, but there needs to be some attempt at producing evidence before making such claims. For a start we are talking about 20 children's services and 20 police departments all ignoring similar warnings over similar periods of years. Is there evidence of that? Have newspapers eager for headlines suggested that? We do know that in other areas people have been arrested and jailed - no question, I can think of Oldham and Oxford. And of course its utterly shocking. But have these areas come up with similar numbers to Rotherham? Were they over similar years?
1400 children abused over 16 years is 90 children per year and over any given 3 year period 270 children. Terrible. Just how many abusers is that? If it is one abuser per child that is terrible enough. But could it be less than that? The number of abusers does not I think extrapolate with number of abused children or the number of individual acts of abuse. Saying 4 million rapes conjures up notions of every other Pakistani raping every other child. These speculations are dangerous.
There are web sites which collate all the newspaper stories from around the country - as 90% of this only ever makes local newspapers - and various blogs but by definition they tend not to be very mainstream as the mainstream were covering it up.
If the political and media class had been interested in inquiring into the scale of this since The Times first broke the story then they would know the scale of it themselves and the same information would be available in mainstream sources too.
Currently though the political and media class are still thrashing around trying to think of different "lines to take" that could bury it again.
One point to note about all the court cases that did make it to the national media last year like Rochdale and Oxford is the media would talk about 5 victims or 6 victims or 8 victims etc without stressing those 4, 6 or 8 were only the victims who agreed to be witnesses and who the prosecution wanted as witnesses (as a lot of them are too messed up).
Something to bear in mind next time an article like that pops up is to see if the writer has buried a hint that there were a lot more victims than the ones who witnessed in court.
Is now a good time to buy Euros? I can get 1.24.5 at the moment. What will happen in next 4 weeks before my hols?
Is there not some merit in simply going to a hole in the wall and withdrawing Euros as you need them? Or indeed mainly spending on debit credit cards?
1.24 is certainly a lot better than the 1.01 that I remember a few years ago.
I thought that the bank rate was usually crap. It is slightly better if you have a higher-tier account from your bank (waived foreign exchange fees etc).
MalcolmG UKIP won 10% of the Scottish vote in May, he is not part of the official BT campaign, but you cannot dismiss so lightly 1 in 10 Scottish voters
Given the turnout at the Euros, it would equate to more like 4% of the likely referendum voters but still, given how close things might be, there's no point upsetting anyone needlessly.
I know you did not put the number of abusers in your post. Thats why I chose to discuss it. Your speculations and extrapolations are just that. And I repeat I think bandying around such figures is dangerous. This does not mean that we should not investigate further to find out some facts - its clearly important. At the moment Parliament is in recess. This does not mean to say that this incident and others are not utterly appalling and a shocking stain on our country. It is also a shocking stain on the Pakistani community - I am happy to say that because it is of great importance that it is said. But these rapes should have been stopped 16 years ago. And why they were not is also a shocking stain. There is no excuse for these rapes beginning in the first place but stopping them should have been the first step in changing the Pakistani culture in the UK. I am more than happy to be in the forefront of condemning 'multiculturalism'; more than happy to agree with Cameron's words condemning it.
What I do find strange is the difference between ISIS where there were clamours to recall parliament and this revelation where there has been none.
The purpose of my estimation was not to try to come to an accurate number, but to show the likely scale of what has gone on, and for it to be recognised as of relevant importance. Like you say, people demanded a recall of parliament over ISIS, but not over this. There have likely been more harm caused to British people in these rapes than in any war we've faced since 1945. This is bigger than ISIS, bigger than Iraq, bigger than Yewtree, bigger than any other scandal that has happened in decades. The government response to this, or its lack of response, could be the defining feature of the Coalition 2010-2015.
Actually, Austrians made more fanatical Nazis than the Germans. Hitler - the Austrian - was worshipped. There is more than a residue of this taint in Vienna today.
I was in Vienna for four years as a child and my mother, who was bilingual in German and knew the issues well (she grew up in Gdansk/Danzig), discussed it with a lot of people. Anecedotally, her understanding was the same as yours. The most immune, as in Germany, were the old-fashioned ex-Empire elite, who felt the Nazis were vulgar barbarians - an example of why being old-fashioned isn't always bad. She also felt that while Germany had made a serious attempt to confront their past, Austria had largely avoided it, pleading victim status.
A long time ago now, though, and nearly everyone involved is dead. Certainly in Germany there is no significant neo-Nazi threat.
Actually, Austrians made more fanatical Nazis than the Germans. Hitler - the Austrian - was worshipped. There is more than a residue of this taint in Vienna today.
I was in Vienna for four years as a child and my mother, who was bilingual in German and knew the issues well (she grew up in Gdansk/Danzig), discussed it with a lot of people. Anecedotally, her understanding was the same as yours. The most immune, as in Germany, were the old-fashioned ex-Empire elite, who felt the Nazis were vulgar barbarians - an example of why being old-fashioned isn't always bad. She also felt that while Germany had made a serious attempt to confront their past, Austria had largely avoided it, pleading victim status.
A long time ago now, though, and nearly everyone involved is dead. Certainly in Germany there is no significant neo-Nazi threat.
I once attended a history museum in Vienna that seemed to end its exhibits at the end of the first world war.
David Herdson Indeed, if Farage gets all the Scottish voters who voted for UKIP in May to vote No that would help in a tight race, he will make little difference to the Yes total either way, Yes voters who hate him will still vote Yes and No Labour and LD voters who dislike him will be residents of Edinburgh town houses not the working class Labour voters who could swing the election, they will like his populist message on immigration
David Herdson Indeed, if Farage gets all the Scottish voters who voted for UKIP in May to vote No that would help in a tight race, he will make little difference to the Yes total either way, Yes voters who hate him will still vote Yes and No Labour and LD voters who dislike him will be residents of Edinburgh town houses not the working class Labour voters who could swing the election, they will like his populist message on immigration
BBC Scotland News @BBCScotlandNews 5h UKIP leader Nigel Farage is to address a pro-Union rally in Glasgow ahead of the #indyref vote http://bbc.in/1zYWFR5
Should be fun him in Glasgow and Orange Order in Edinburgh next day , sure to boost YES by a big margin. All we need now are BT's other nice friends to follow suit and it will be a walkover.
UKIP is the fastest growing party in Scotland so I'm sure the YESNP will be keen to organize a passionate group of greeters.
I am coming to the conclusion that any result at the next GE is conceivable if you have mass trials involving hundreds (if not more than a thousand) people on trial.
Sorry, who is Flipper? That name doesn't appear on my malcolmg insult lookup table!
Oh dear Rob , kidding on you do not know who house flipper is, is pretty pathetic. Who got thrashed in a recent debate and also flipped his house 4 times and charged us for all the money and also the tax guidance on how not to pay tax on the spoils. Go on have a guess.
Is now a good time to buy Euros? I can get 1.24.5 at the moment. What will happen in next 4 weeks before my hols?
The best, easily accessible rate, that I found before our recent trip to Fuessen was M&S, if you have their credit card. If not Moneycorp, order online and then pick up in person from a limited number of airports. However, it's also really worth looking into the Halifax Clarity card (Mastercard) and putting as much of your purchases on that. Also use it to withdraw Euros from foreign ATMs. BTW the best I could get for cash in the UK a few weeks back was 1.228, so your rate looks quite good.
Any tips re accomodation in the area , I am planning to go to that area next year , where did you stay whilst there.
We stayed at http://www.appartementseespitz-fuessen.com and booked it via Expedia. We had an apartment overlooking the lake and really liked it. It's on the opposite side of Fuessen to Neuscwanstein castle and you really need a car to get to the town.
BBC Scotland News @BBCScotlandNews 5h UKIP leader Nigel Farage is to address a pro-Union rally in Glasgow ahead of the #indyref vote http://bbc.in/1zYWFR5
Should be fun him in Glasgow and Orange Order in Edinburgh next day , sure to boost YES by a big margin. All we need now are BT's other nice friends to follow suit and it will be a walkover.
UKIP is the fastest growing party in Scotland so I'm sure the YESNP will be keen to organize a passionate group of greeters.
@SeanT The UK did up to late Victorian times, after which "lessons were learned" and it all got swept under the carpet again. The other version is, that systematic child abuse stopped circa 1882 and was only resurrected by Muslim monsters in the 1990's
That Mail on Sunday article on Rotherham-esque abuse, and now the natiowide reckoning, is terrifying.
Quote:
"The scale of the operations being drawn up across the country is said to be ‘almost beyond comprehension’. The number of victims will make the Rotherham child abuse scandal – in which 1,400 children were abused over a 16-year period – look like the ‘tip of an iceberg’.
A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time.
‘Britain is going to have to finally face up to the fact that it has a massive problem in terms of grooming gangs. It’s in every corner of the country – I can’t think of anywhere that’s immune."
Sorry, who is Flipper? That name doesn't appear on my malcolmg insult lookup table!
Oh dear Rob , kidding on you do not know who house flipper is, is pretty pathetic. Who got thrashed in a recent debate and also flipped his house 4 times and charged us for all the money and also the tax guidance on how not to pay tax on the spoils. Go on have a guess.
it looks like the authorities are planning a big counterpunch.
Goodness knows what the cost will be in terms of police time, court time, prison time....it just goes on. and on. and on. That's after the untold human suffering.
It's just a giant catastrophe. There are almost no words.
What's needed is that these men go away for a long, long time. When they're back out on the streets in three and a half years laughing about how free they are it's just appalling.
Another aspect of child abuse that needs to be dealt with is one that was told to me recently. A friend told me how a neighbour was appallingly abused by another man that lived on the street. There was a criminal case and the abuser had to go away for several years. But when he got out he moved back into the same house, directly opposite from the victim. The victim's family eventually had to sell up and move away after how harrowing it was.
This seems like something that should be automatically ended: if you abused a child, you should not be allowed to move within a half mile of them once you get out.
A quote from the Daily Mail article:
'A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time'
Why does anyone in a police force believe it's appropriate to give a quote like that to a newspaper? - Money? - Self importance? - Boasting? - Tipping off the bad guys?
Really, I can't think of a good reason unless it's an attempt to get more witnesses/victims to come forward in the belief that something is actually being done.
Get as many as possible of them to leave the country in advance.
That Mail on Sunday article on Rotherham-esque abuse, and now the natiowide reckoning, is terrifying.
Quote:
"The scale of the operations being drawn up across the country is said to be ‘almost beyond comprehension’. The number of victims will make the Rotherham child abuse scandal – in which 1,400 children were abused over a 16-year period – look like the ‘tip of an iceberg’.
A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time.
Too true 'it's about bloody time' - I wonder if the the BBC has negotiated a price for exclusive coverage of these dawn raids?
Is now a good time to buy Euros? I can get 1.24.5 at the moment. What will happen in next 4 weeks before my hols?
The best, easily accessible rate, that I found before our recent trip to Fuessen was M&S, if you have their credit card. If not Moneycorp, order online and then pick up in person from a limited number of airports. However, it's also really worth looking into the Halifax Clarity card (Mastercard) and putting as much of your purchases on that. Also use it to withdraw Euros from foreign ATMs. BTW the best I could get for cash in the UK a few weeks back was 1.228, so your rate looks quite good.
Any tips re accomodation in the area , I am planning to go to that area next year , where did you stay whilst there.
We stayed at http://www.appartementseespitz-fuessen.com and booked it via Expedia. We had an apartment overlooking the lake and really liked it. It's on the opposite side of Fuessen to Neuscwanstein castle and you really need a car to get to the town.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
So they should be, re-skill and keep the existing workforce. Far better than sacking people and then having to hire new staff and also cause morale issues across the whole business.. Sounds like the works council are more knowledgeable and sensible than the management.
The roles are totally different - not possible to reskill in this case (a huge part of the value comes from relationships built over years)
it looks like the authorities are planning a big counterpunch.
Goodness knows what the cost will be in terms of police time, court time, prison time....it just goes on. and on. and on. That's after the untold human suffering.
It's just a giant catastrophe. There are almost no words.
What's needed is that these men go away for a long, long time. When they're back out on the streets in three and a half years laughing about how free they are it's just appalling.
Another aspect of child abuse that needs to be dealt with is one that was told to me recently. A friend told me how a neighbour was appallingly abused by another man that lived on the street. There was a criminal case and the abuser had to go away for several years. But when he got out he moved back into the same house, directly opposite from the victim. The victim's family eventually had to sell up and move away after how harrowing it was.
This seems like something that should be automatically ended: if you abused a child, you should not be allowed to move within a half mile of them once you get out.
A quote from the Daily Mail article:
'A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time'
Why does anyone in a police force believe it's appropriate to give a quote like that to a newspaper? - Money? - Self importance? - Boasting? - Tipping off the bad guys?
Really, I can't think of a good reason unless it's an attempt to get more witnesses/victims to come forward in the belief that something is actually being done.
Get as many as possible of them to leave the country in advance.
One of my thoughts on the subject. Once gone issue an arrest warrant, publicly.
Saves the cost of the trial (guilty verdicts might be hard to win), imprisonment and deportation. Win win.
Sorry, who is Flipper? That name doesn't appear on my malcolmg insult lookup table!
Oh dear Rob , kidding on you do not know who house flipper is, is pretty pathetic. Who got thrashed in a recent debate and also flipped his house 4 times and charged us for all the money and also the tax guidance on how not to pay tax on the spoils. Go on have a guess.
You've certainly narrowed it down.
I reckon even Scott or HYFUD could get it from that ...............
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
So they should be, re-skill and keep the existing workforce. Far better than sacking people and then having to hire new staff and also cause morale issues across the whole business.. Sounds like the works council are more knowledgeable and sensible than the management.
The roles are totally different - not possible to reskill in this case (a huge part of the value comes from relationships built over years)
Tough for some of the workers then, I am not a great fan of dumping good employees. Fine if useless and not performing but always prefer reskilling if possible. One of the big reasons I avoid man management.
That Mail on Sunday article on Rotherham-esque abuse, and now the natiowide reckoning, is terrifying.
Quote:
"The scale of the operations being drawn up across the country is said to be ‘almost beyond comprehension’. The number of victims will make the Rotherham child abuse scandal – in which 1,400 children were abused over a 16-year period – look like the ‘tip of an iceberg’.
A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time.
‘Britain is going to have to finally face up to the fact that it has a massive problem in terms of grooming gangs. It’s in every corner of the country – I can’t think of anywhere that’s immune."
How will we react as a nation, if this comes true? Has any other western country been through something like this?
I cannot think of a precedent.
Ireland is the closest I can think of. Brits tends not to understand how deeply the Catholic Church was embedded in the culture there and how hard the scandal shook the country.
it looks like the authorities are planning a big counterpunch.
Goodness knows what the cost will be in terms of police time, court time, prison time....it just goes on. and on. and on. That's after the untold human suffering.
It's just a giant catastrophe. There are almost no words.
What's needed is that these men go away for a long, long time. When they're back out on the streets in three and a half years laughing about how free they are it's just appalling.
Another aspect of child abuse that needs to be dealt with is one that was told to me recently. A friend told me how a neighbour was appallingly abused by another man that lived on the street. There was a criminal case and the abuser had to go away for several years. But when he got out he moved back into the same house, directly opposite from the victim. The victim's family eventually had to sell up and move away after how harrowing it was.
This seems like something that should be automatically ended: if you abused a child, you should not be allowed to move within a half mile of them once you get out.
A quote from the Daily Mail article:
'A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time'
Why does anyone in a police force believe it's appropriate to give a quote like that to a newspaper? - Money? - Self importance? - Boasting? - Tipping off the bad guys?
Really, I can't think of a good reason unless it's an attempt to get more witnesses/victims to come forward in the belief that something is actually being done.
Get as many as possible of them to leave the country in advance.
One of my thoughts on the subject. Once gone issue an arrest warrant, publicly.
Saves the cost of the trial (guilty verdicts might be hard to win), imprisonment and deportation. Win win.
Seems to me like quite a few senior plod and politicians wouldn't want the bigwigs at least to go to trial.
Could cause quite a few council by-elections as well if the people running it suddenly split.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
So they should be, re-skill and keep the existing workforce. Far better than sacking people and then having to hire new staff and also cause morale issues across the whole business.. Sounds like the works council are more knowledgeable and sensible than the management.
The roles are totally different - not possible to reskill in this case (a huge part of the value comes from relationships built over years)
Tough for some of the workers then, I am not a great fan of dumping good employees. Fine if useless and not performing but always prefer reskilling if possible. One of the big reasons I avoid man management.
Neither am I - the problem is these are in totally different businesses - one is effectively finance back office and the other in client facing consultancy,
That Mail on Sunday article on Rotherham-esque abuse, and now the natiowide reckoning, is terrifying.
Quote:
"The scale of the operations being drawn up across the country is said to be ‘almost beyond comprehension’. The number of victims will make the Rotherham child abuse scandal – in which 1,400 children were abused over a 16-year period – look like the ‘tip of an iceberg’.
A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time.
‘Britain is going to have to finally face up to the fact that it has a massive problem in terms of grooming gangs. It’s in every corner of the country – I can’t think of anywhere that’s immune."
@MrJones You may have a point, I wonder if any of the abusers kept a record of who the girls were "servicing" on a given night? It might throw open an interesting aspect of the case, or buy them a particularly favourable trial?
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
banker complains he has to work for his salary :-)
it looks like the authorities are planning a big counterpunch.
Goodness knows what the cost will be in terms of police time, court time, prison time....it just goes on. and on. and on. That's after the untold human suffering.
It's just a giant catastrophe. There are almost no words.
What's needed is that these men go away for a long, long time. When they're back out on the streets in three and a half years laughing about how free they are it's just appalling.
Another aspect of child abuse that needs to be dealt with is one that was told to me recently. A friend told me how a neighbour was appallingly abused by another man that lived on the street. There was a criminal case and the abuser had to go away for several years. But when he got out he moved back into the same house, directly opposite from the victim. The victim's family eventually had to sell up and move away after how harrowing it was.
This seems like something that should be automatically ended: if you abused a child, you should not be allowed to move within a half mile of them once you get out.
A quote from the Daily Mail article:
'A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time'
Why does anyone in a police force believe it's appropriate to give a quote like that to a newspaper? - Money? - Self importance? - Boasting? - Tipping off the bad guys?
Really, I can't think of a good reason unless it's an attempt to get more witnesses/victims to come forward in the belief that something is actually being done.
Get as many as possible of them to leave the country in advance.
One of my thoughts on the subject. Once gone issue an arrest warrant, publicly.
Saves the cost of the trial (guilty verdicts might be hard to win), imprisonment and deportation. Win win.
Seems to me like quite a few senior plod and politicians wouldn't want the bigwigs at least to go to trial.
Could cause quite a few council by-elections as well if the people running it suddenly split.
-:) Re your second last para, au contraire, they may know too much.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
banker complains he has to work for his salary :-)
Who's the union IG Metall or Verdi ?
Nah, I'm just disappointed.
I had this mental image of the German unions being constructive and collaborative and working with management to achieve the best possible outcome for all stakeholders. Now I've discovered they are obstructive f*ckwits, just like in the UK.
@MrJones You may have a point, I wonder if any of the abusers kept a record of who the girls were "servicing" on a given night? It might throw open an interesting aspect of the case, or buy them a particularly favourable trial?
I'm talking about senior plod and politicians who helped cover it up not wanting the big fish to go to court. The other thing is possible i guess in a few cases.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
So they should be, re-skill and keep the existing workforce. Far better than sacking people and then having to hire new staff and also cause morale issues across the whole business.. Sounds like the works council are more knowledgeable and sensible than the management.
The roles are totally different - not possible to reskill in this case (a huge part of the value comes from relationships built over years)
Tough for some of the workers then, I am not a great fan of dumping good employees. Fine if useless and not performing but always prefer reskilling if possible. One of the big reasons I avoid man management.
Neither am I - the problem is these are in totally different businesses - one is effectively finance back office and the other in client facing consultancy,
UKIP thank Stuart Wheeler for his cash donations. However, UKIP has outgrown attempts to paint UKIP as a one or two man band. Anyway Wheeler has no official standing in UKIP.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
banker complains he has to work for his salary :-)
Who's the union IG Metall or Verdi ?
Nah, I'm just disappointed.
I had this mental image of the German unions being constructive and collaborative and working with management to achieve the best possible outcome for all stakeholders. Now I've discovered they are obstructive f*ckwits, just like in the UK.
My illusions have been shattered...
;-)
Generally speaking you have to dangle things at them, also if you can't get a sensible view from the locals try the regional level.
That Mail on Sunday article on Rotherham-esque abuse, and now the natiowide reckoning, is terrifying.
Quote:
"The scale of the operations being drawn up across the country is said to be ‘almost beyond comprehension’. The number of victims will make the Rotherham child abuse scandal – in which 1,400 children were abused over a 16-year period – look like the ‘tip of an iceberg’.
A police source with detailed knowledge of the plans told The Mail on Sunday: ‘This is going to be a day of reckoning – and it’s about time.
‘Britain is going to have to finally face up to the fact that it has a massive problem in terms of grooming gangs. It’s in every corner of the country – I can’t think of anywhere that’s immune."
How will we react as a nation, if this comes true? Has any other western country been through something like this?
I cannot think of a precedent.
Ireland is the closest I can think of. Brits tends not to understand how deeply the Catholic Church was embedded in the culture there and how hard the scandal shook the country.
Yes, that's actually a rather good precedent. All the Irish I know spit venom at the Catholic church, these days, and openly loathe or deride it.
I'm sure there are still lots of Irish believers, but the bedrock of Irish Catholicism was destroyed.
IF this Mail article comes true, then I suggest our own precious creed of multiculti is about to be swept away, forever. Anyone who dares to use the word "multiculturalism" will be laughed to scorn.
Indeed that may already be the case.
Individual cases like the Baby P case has a big impact on the care services - I think in that case, the number of children taken into care rose substantially. Is it possible that the scale of abuse nationally might be so big we struggle to understand it?
It's a bit like the mafia in terms of very tight-knit extended families from remote rural villages except it's mostly legitimate businesses with some crime rather than mostly crime with some legitimate businesses.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
Is now a good time to buy Euros? I can get 1.24.5 at the moment. What will happen in next 4 weeks before my hols?
Is there not some merit in simply going to a hole in the wall and withdrawing Euros as you need them? Or indeed mainly spending on debit credit cards?
1.24 is certainly a lot better than the 1.01 that I remember a few years ago.
Most major banks charge a fortune for doing this. They levy per transactions charges, charge a foreign currency fee percentage, give you a lousy rate, and charge interest if you use a credit card.
The saga credit card bucks this trend and is pretty much the cheapest and safest way of making payments and withdrawing cash whilst abroad.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
Yes up to a point. It's the government's baby now though so the longer they stall the more it will get shared out.
nb Lab already lost *millions* of votes. It was just ConLib weren't capable of picking those votes up off the ground.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
Actually no, I don't agree. It will affect local Labour politicians badly, and local Labour councils, but nationally I think - if it reaches the scale suggested by the Mail on Sunday - that it will cause a nationwide revulsion at all mainstream politicians and all mainstream politics.
UKIP will benefit, if anyone.
However where it might harm Labour in particular is the way it makes it impossible for them to pursue their particular, cultural neo-Marxist creed of mass immigration, multiculturalism, equality legislation, diversity officers blah blah blah
I cannot see any government getting away with that lefty bullshit any more, not after Rotherham, let alone after a nationwide series of twenty Rotherhams (should that occur).
don't forget Ukip won nine seats in Rotherham at the last locals
Interesting points. Just donning my tinfoil hat again, but I've heard little talk of Common Purpose this crisis around. But usually when there's a huge scandal of this type, their name does crop up. Sharon Shoesmith, Joyce Thacker etc.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
Of course.Labour was once associated with coal miners, ship builders and steel workers. Now its core support is characterized by Rotherham's gangs and complacent offialdom.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
No
Agreed, this will be beyond party politics for most people.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
Actually no, I don't agree. It will affect local Labour politicians badly, and local Labour councils, but nationally I think - if it reaches the scale suggested by the Mail on Sunday - that it will cause a nationwide revulsion at all mainstream politicians and all mainstream politics.
UKIP will benefit, if anyone.
However where it might harm Labour in particular is the way it makes it impossible for them to pursue their particular, cultural neo-Marxist creed of mass immigration, multiculturalism, equality legislation, diversity officers blah blah blah
I cannot see any government getting away with that lefty bullshit any more, not after Rotherham, let alone after a nationwide series of twenty Rotherhams (should that occur).
don't forget Ukip won nine seats in Rotherham at the last locals
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
Actually no, I don't agree. It will affect local Labour politicians badly, and local Labour councils, but nationally I think - if it reaches the scale suggested by the Mail on Sunday - that it will cause a nationwide revulsion at all mainstream politicians and all mainstream politics.
UKIP will benefit, if anyone.
However where it might harm Labour in particular is the way it makes it impossible for them to pursue their particular, cultural neo-Marxist creed of mass immigration, multiculturalism, equality legislation, diversity officers blah blah blah
I cannot see any government getting away with that lefty bullshit any more, not after Rotherham, let alone after a nationwide series of twenty Rotherhams (should that occur).
don't forget Ukip won nine seats in Rotherham at the last locals
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
banker complains he has to work for his salary :-)
Who's the union IG Metall or Verdi ?
Nah, I'm just disappointed.
I had this mental image of the German unions being constructive and collaborative and working with management to achieve the best possible outcome for all stakeholders. Now I've discovered they are obstructive f*ckwits, just like in the UK.
My illusions have been shattered...
;-)
Generally speaking you have to dangle things at them, also if you can't get a sensible view from the locals try the regional level.
They are proposing a deal whereby they will let us hire 1 person externally for every 1 we take internally. (Anyone not based in Frankfurt, even if they work for the company, counts as an external hire...)
I wish Cameron and other leaders would stop pussyfooting around about the Ukraine. It's tantamount to appeasement. I know it would've hurt, but the only way to've stopped Putin in his tracks would've been full sanctions, i.e. an import/export ban and asset freeze. The idea that this man is now able to use the current situation as a bargaining position is pretty sickening.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
banker complains he has to work for his salary :-)
Who's the union IG Metall or Verdi ?
Nah, I'm just disappointed.
I had this mental image of the German unions being constructive and collaborative and working with management to achieve the best possible outcome for all stakeholders. Now I've discovered they are obstructive f*ckwits, just like in the UK.
My illusions have been shattered...
;-)
Generally speaking you have to dangle things at them, also if you can't get a sensible view from the locals try the regional level.
They are proposing a deal whereby they will let us hire 1 person externally for every 1 we take internally. (Anyone not based in Frankfurt, even if they work for the company, counts as an external hire...)
So you transfer some people internally and can hire the same amount from outside ? I suppose it comes down to the numbers you need to shift.
Strangely hoping Sanogo scores so arsenal don't buy a proper striker before tomorrow night.....
Just back from the match. He was not bad, and was a constant threat. Wes Morgan had him in his pocket, just like he did Evertons £28 million striker two weeks ago. Leicester City had the better defenders today by a mile. Arsenal need to sort it out! Quite looking forward to MUFC for the next home game. It's them that will be nervous!
The highlights tonight will be worth watching. Our strikers need to work on their finishing, City missed several sitters. It should have been 3 or 4:1 so we dropped a couple of points today. Leicester are the team to watch, though Everton do not deserve their position below us in the table. They put up a much tougher match than Arsenal, whose players were all getting cramp by the end.
Thought this may amuse from a LCFC board:
Re: Leicester 1 Arsenal 1
Seems like we're as good as Arsenal and Everton but not quite as good as Chelsea. Sounds like it's fighting for champions league qualification for us rather than fighting for the title
Strangely hoping Sanogo scores so arsenal don't buy a proper striker before tomorrow night.....
Just back from the match. He was not bad, and was a constant threat. Wes Morgan had him in his pocket, just like he did Evertons £28 million striker two weeks ago. Leicester City had the better defenders today by a mile. Arsenal need to sort it out! Quite looking forward to MUFC for the next home game. It's them that will be nervous!
The highlights tonight will be worth watching. Our strikers need to work on their finishing, City missed several sitters. It should have been 3 or 4:1 so we dropped a couple of points today. Leicester are the team to watch, though Everton do not deserve their position below us in the table. They put up a much tougher match than Arsenal, whose players were all getting cramp by the end.
Thought this may amuse from a LCFC board:
Re: Leicester 1 Arsenal 1
Seems like we're as good as Arsenal and Everton but not quite as good as Chelsea. Sounds like it's fighting for champions league qualification for us rather than fighting for the title
It was on the telly so most people will have seen for themselves that your match report is v misleading
Strangely hoping Sanogo scores so arsenal don't buy a proper striker before tomorrow night.....
Just back from the match. He was not bad, and was a constant threat. Wes Morgan had him in his pocket, just like he did Evertons £28 million striker two weeks ago. Leicester City had the better defenders today by a mile. Arsenal need to sort it out! Quite looking forward to MUFC for the next home game. It's them that will be nervous!
The highlights tonight will be worth watching. Our strikers need to work on their finishing, City missed several sitters. It should have been 3 or 4:1 so we dropped a couple of points today. Leicester are the team to watch, though Everton do not deserve their position below us in the table. They put up a much tougher match than Arsenal, whose players were all getting cramp by the end.
Thought this may amuse from a LCFC board:
Re: Leicester 1 Arsenal 1
Seems like we're as good as Arsenal and Everton but not quite as good as Chelsea. Sounds like it's fighting for champions league qualification for us rather than fighting for the title
It was on the telly so most people will have seen for themselves that your match report is v misleading
Draw a fair result
Wenger better pull something spectacular off tomorrow. Not good enough.
Strangely hoping Sanogo scores so arsenal don't buy a proper striker before tomorrow night.....
Just back from the match. He was not bad, and was a constant threat. Wes Morgan had him in his pocket, just like he did Evertons £28 million striker two weeks ago. Leicester City had the better defenders today by a mile. Arsenal need to sort it out! Quite looking forward to MUFC for the next home game. It's them that will be nervous!
The highlights tonight will be worth watching. Our strikers need to work on their finishing, City missed several sitters. It should have been 3 or 4:1 so we dropped a couple of points today. Leicester are the team to watch, though Everton do not deserve their position below us in the table. They put up a much tougher match than Arsenal, whose players were all getting cramp by the end.
Thought this may amuse from a LCFC board:
Re: Leicester 1 Arsenal 1
Seems like we're as good as Arsenal and Everton but not quite as good as Chelsea. Sounds like it's fighting for champions league qualification for us rather than fighting for the title
It was on the telly so most people will have seen for themselves that your match report is v misleading
Draw a fair result
Wenger better pull something spectacular off tomorrow. Not good enough.
Yeah I agree
I thought we needed another centre fwd even when Giroud was fit...
I wish Cameron and other leaders would stop pussyfooting around about the Ukraine. It's tantamount to appeasement. I know it would've hurt, but the only way to've stopped Putin in his tracks would've been full sanctions, i.e. an import/export ban and asset freeze. The idea that this man is now able to use the current situation as a bargaining position is pretty sickening.
Given Europe's reliance on Russian gas, I doubt that would happen
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
No. This is way beyond party politics.
And though PB Powellites have clearly been having a field day since the report, it's way beyond race too.
In fact one of the most important things is that we don't allow racists and anti-immigration obsessives to hijack the whole thing to push their vile agenda. Otherwise we let down the victims and reduce our chances of dealing with this.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
No. This is way beyond party politics.
And though PB Powellites have clearly been having a field day since the report, it's way beyond race too.
In fact one of the most important things is that we don't allow racists and anti-immigration obsessives to hijack the whole thing to push their vile agenda. Otherwise we let down the victims and reduce our chances of dealing with this.
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
No. This is way beyond party politics.
And though PB Powellites have clearly been having a field day since the report, it's way beyond race too.
In fact one of the most important things is that we don't allow racists and anti-immigration obsessives to hijack the whole thing to push their vile agenda. Otherwise we let down the victims and reduce our chances of dealing with this.
That's both ridiculous and oxymoronic. The very reason this has happened is for the exact same reasons you're giving as the solution.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
banker complains he has to work for his salary :-)
Who's the union IG Metall or Verdi ?
Nah, I'm just disappointed.
I had this mental image of the German unions being constructive and collaborative and working with management to achieve the best possible outcome for all stakeholders. Now I've discovered they are obstructive f*ckwits, just like in the UK.
My illusions have been shattered...
;-)
Generally speaking you have to dangle things at them, also if you can't get a sensible view from the locals try the regional level.
They are proposing a deal whereby they will let us hire 1 person externally for every 1 we take internally. (Anyone not based in Frankfurt, even if they work for the company, counts as an external hire...)
I should have thought the problem was amenable to a solution. You set up a subsidiary in the UK to do the expanding work. If the unions kick up give them a copy of one of Frau Merkel's speeches explaining how wonderful the EU is and what a great benefit the free-movement of labour brings to Germany. Then shut down the Frankfurt end.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
banker complains he has to work for his salary :-)
Who's the union IG Metall or Verdi ?
Nah, I'm just disappointed.
I had this mental image of the German unions being constructive and collaborative and working with management to achieve the best possible outcome for all stakeholders. Now I've discovered they are obstructive f*ckwits, just like in the UK.
My illusions have been shattered...
;-)
Generally speaking you have to dangle things at them, also if you can't get a sensible view from the locals try the regional level.
They are proposing a deal whereby they will let us hire 1 person externally for every 1 we take internally. (Anyone not based in Frankfurt, even if they work for the company, counts as an external hire...)
So you transfer some people internally and can hire the same amount from outside ? I suppose it comes down to the numbers you need to shift.
Indeed. Challenge is that there are 2 senior guys we want to move + 3 juniors (who could be internal or external). Will be painful with 2 completely inexperienced juniors and one mid-level external though...
In fact one of the most important things is that we don't allow racists and anti-immigration obsessives to hijack the whole thing to push their vile agenda. Otherwise we let down the victims and reduce our chances of dealing with this.
Another day, another left-winger mainly focusing on criticising anti-immigration campaigners.
Well, the anti-immigration campaigners had nothing to do with causing thousands and thousands of child rapes. In fact, if the anti-immigration campaigners had had their way, we wouldn't now have this vile misogynistic culture out of rural Kashmir plaguing our cities. You know who did have something to do with it? The people going on and on and on about how The Most Important Thing (TM) is that we're ever vigilant against real and imagined racists. It was down to people like this that people were scared to put their foot down on horrific child abuse.
And yet still left-wingers go on doing it. It's like a mental condition, where they're incapable of learning from experience.
Strangely hoping Sanogo scores so arsenal don't buy a proper striker before tomorrow night.....
Just back from the match. He was not bad, and was a constant threat. Wes Morgan had him in his pocket, just like he did Evertons £28 million striker two weeks ago. Leicester City had the better defenders today by a mile. Arsenal need to sort it out! Quite looking forward to MUFC for the next home game. It's them that will be nervous!
The highlights tonight will be worth watching. Our strikers need to work on their finishing, City missed several sitters. It should have been 3 or 4:1 so we dropped a couple of points today. Leicester are the team to watch, though Everton do not deserve their position below us in the table. They put up a much tougher match than Arsenal, whose players were all getting cramp by the end.
Thought this may amuse from a LCFC board:
Re: Leicester 1 Arsenal 1
Seems like we're as good as Arsenal and Everton but not quite as good as Chelsea. Sounds like it's fighting for champions league qualification for us rather than fighting for the title
It was on the telly so most people will have seen for themselves that your match report is v misleading
Draw a fair result
Our finishing was poor, but will get better. Arsenal are a good team, but we matched them despite having players out with injury. Ramsey and Sanchez were good today, but the rest were nothing special. I am happy if we make no further signings, but #wengerout is trending...
Does everyone agree that surely Rotherham MUST have an affect on the Labour vote? All parties of power have a share in the blame, but surely Labour must be the worst affected.
No. This is way beyond party politics.
And though PB Powellites have clearly been having a field day since the report, it's way beyond race too.
In fact one of the most important things is that we don't allow racists and anti-immigration obsessives to hijack the whole thing to push their vile agenda. Otherwise we let down the victims and reduce our chances of dealing with this.
You are quite right it has nothing to do with race. It does on the other hand have everything to do with culture and we have had 30 years of any criticism of a particular culture being vociferously condemned by the Left as being racism.
You and your ilk are entirely responsible for the way in which this has been allowed to develop and you are a complete hypocrite to now try and attack those who have been right all along.
I wish Cameron and other leaders would stop pussyfooting around about the Ukraine. It's tantamount to appeasement. I know it would've hurt, but the only way to've stopped Putin in his tracks would've been full sanctions, i.e. an import/export ban and asset freeze. The idea that this man is now able to use the current situation as a bargaining position is pretty sickening.
Full sanctions on gas exports, cut off access to the City of London, and close the Dardanelles to Russian ships. It would have brought Russia to its knees.
BBC Scotland News @BBCScotlandNews 5h UKIP leader Nigel Farage is to address a pro-Union rally in Glasgow ahead of the #indyref vote http://bbc.in/1zYWFR5
Should be fun him in Glasgow and Orange Order in Edinburgh next day , sure to boost YES by a big margin. All we need now are BT's other nice friends to follow suit and it will be a walkover.
UKIP is the fastest growing party in Scotland so I'm sure the YESNP will be keen to organize a passionate group of greeters.
David Herdson Indeed, if Farage gets all the Scottish voters who voted for UKIP in May to vote No that would help in a tight race, he will make little difference to the Yes total either way, Yes voters who hate him will still vote Yes and No Labour and LD voters who dislike him will be residents of Edinburgh town houses not the working class Labour voters who could swing the election, they will like his populist message on immigration
Interesting point to raise. My gut feeling is however that the people who'd be attracted by Mr F's visit are hardcore No anyway, and voting No already. A quick check for Glasgow confirms that UKIP did poorly in the Euros, below the Greens (but above the Tories, though this was an Euro election). (Different turnout for indyref is, however, a big joker in the pack.)
The other place this scandal hits Labour is in their belief in a continuous expansion of public sector worker places in local government. How many positions have their been in Rotherham with something to do with "child protection" or "community engagement" in their name, yet failed to pick up on this? What you need is one person with responsibility.
As an aside one of the consequences of working in Germany for me has been to look at the upside of German labour law ( yes I know ! ) which while sclerotic doesn't half force the management to innovate, control costs and seek flexibility in other ways ( annual hours contracts for instance ). Perhaps in having it too easy UK companies don't really stretch themselves to the same extent.
don't talk to me about German labour law just now.
Dealing with the most ridiculous works council right now. Restructuring a conglomerate - we want to grow one part of the business while shrinking others. Result: the works council won't approve any hires in the growing part because they are upset about redundancies in the shrinking part...
banker complains he has to work for his salary :-)
Who's the union IG Metall or Verdi ?
Nah, I'm just disappointed.
I had this mental image of the German unions being constructive and collaborative and working with management to achieve the best possible outcome for all stakeholders. Now I've discovered they are obstructive f*ckwits, just like in the UK.
My illusions have been shattered...
;-)
Generally speaking you have to dangle things at them, also if you can't get a sensible view from the locals try the regional level.
They are proposing a deal whereby they will let us hire 1 person externally for every 1 we take internally. (Anyone not based in Frankfurt, even if they work for the company, counts as an external hire...)
I should have thought the problem was amenable to a solution. You set up a subsidiary in the UK to do the expanding work. If the unions kick up give them a copy of one of Frau Merkel's speeches explaining how wonderful the EU is and what a great benefit the free-movement of labour brings to Germany. Then shut down the Frankfurt end.
Firm is closing their UK business because the unions demanded it as the price of the last deal...
Comments
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9667-bbc-video-reveals-sir-ian-wood-backed-scottish-government-oil-figures
Your speculations and extrapolations are just that. And I repeat I think bandying around such figures is dangerous.
This does not mean that we should not investigate further to find out some facts - its clearly important. At the moment Parliament is in recess.
This does not mean to say that this incident and others are not utterly appalling and a shocking stain on our country. It is also a shocking stain on the Pakistani community - I am happy to say that because it is of great importance that it is said. But these rapes should have been stopped 16 years ago. And why they were not is also a shocking stain.
There is no excuse for these rapes beginning in the first place but stopping them should have been the first step in changing the Pakistani culture in the UK. I am more than happy to be in the forefront of condemning 'multiculturalism'; more than happy to agree with Cameron's words condemning it.
What I do find strange is the difference between ISIS where there were clamours to recall parliament and this revelation where there has been none.
It's a tricky one, Socrates.
My main source is Making Friends With Hitler, an intriguing biography of Lord Londonderry, by Ian Kershaw. Here's a good review.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2004/oct/02/featuresreviews.guardianreview9
If you buy the book, I suggest you put a different dust cover on it. You get funny looks at work and on the tube when people notice the title.
So perhaps you are giving him more credence than he deserves. Being notorious is part of how he makes his living.
If the political and media class had been interested in inquiring into the scale of this since The Times first broke the story then they would know the scale of it themselves and the same information would be available in mainstream sources too.
Currently though the political and media class are still thrashing around trying to think of different "lines to take" that could bury it again.
One point to note about all the court cases that did make it to the national media last year like Rochdale and Oxford is the media would talk about 5 victims or 6 victims or 8 victims etc without stressing those 4, 6 or 8 were only the victims who agreed to be witnesses and who the prosecution wanted as witnesses (as a lot of them are too messed up).
Something to bear in mind next time an article like that pops up is to see if the writer has buried a hint that there were a lot more victims than the ones who witnessed in court.
1.24 is certainly a lot better than the 1.01 that I remember a few years ago.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hbos-accused-of-misleading-the-public-over-4bn-rescue-9701791.html
A long time ago now, though, and nearly everyone involved is dead. Certainly in Germany there is no significant neo-Nazi threat.
I am coming to the conclusion that any result at the next GE is conceivable if you have mass trials involving hundreds (if not more than a thousand) people on trial.
Go on have a guess.
The UK did up to late Victorian times, after which "lessons were learned" and it all got swept under the carpet again.
The other version is, that systematic child abuse stopped circa 1882 and was only resurrected by Muslim monsters in the 1990's
Neither of them targeted children like this did though, making it all the more explosive.
You've certainly narrowed it down.
Saves the cost of the trial (guilty verdicts might be hard to win), imprisonment and deportation. Win win.
One of the big reasons I avoid man management.
Could cause quite a few council by-elections as well if the people running it suddenly split.
Thanks, Mr Balls & Ms Cooper.
I bet I can think of a few places that are immune mind you.
You may have a point, I wonder if any of the abusers kept a record of who the girls were "servicing" on a given night?
It might throw open an interesting aspect of the case, or buy them a particularly favourable trial?
Who's the union IG Metall or Verdi ?
I had this mental image of the German unions being constructive and collaborative and working with management to achieve the best possible outcome for all stakeholders. Now I've discovered they are obstructive f*ckwits, just like in the UK.
My illusions have been shattered...
;-)
I'm talking about senior plod and politicians who helped cover it up not wanting the big fish to go to court. The other thing is possible i guess in a few cases.
The saga credit card bucks this trend and is pretty much the cheapest and safest way of making payments and withdrawing cash whilst abroad.
nb Lab already lost *millions* of votes. It was just ConLib weren't capable of picking those votes up off the ground.
edit: or didn't want to
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/23/local-elections-ukip-opposition-rotherham
(not sure out of how many contested)
edit: out of 21 contested apparently
I don't expect anything other than boat rocking.
edit: That might be enough.
1/6 Labour
7/2 UKIP
Not cut since this scandal emerged.. I think the 7/2 is value now
The UKIP candidate is an MEP, she has been on tv a bit, so not a mug
The whole campaign will be Labour defending the indefensible... I say GET ON!!!
Someone mentioned Andrew Rosindell as a poss UKIP defector.. Romford 25/1 UKIP
The highlights tonight will be worth watching. Our strikers need to work on their finishing, City missed several sitters. It should have been 3 or 4:1 so we dropped a couple of points today. Leicester are the team to watch, though Everton do not deserve their position below us in the table. They put up a much tougher match than Arsenal, whose players were all getting cramp by the end.
Thought this may amuse from a LCFC board:
Re: Leicester 1 Arsenal 1
Seems like we're as good as Arsenal and Everton but not quite as good as Chelsea. Sounds like it's fighting for champions league qualification for us rather than fighting for the title
Draw a fair result
I thought we needed another centre fwd even when Giroud was fit...
Bony
Diabate
Falcao
Jackson Martinez
Would be the four I'd go after
We'll prob get Welbeck! Wouldn't be a disaster
And though PB Powellites have clearly been having a field day since the report, it's way beyond race too.
In fact one of the most important things is that we don't allow racists and anti-immigration obsessives to hijack the whole thing to push their vile agenda. Otherwise we let down the victims and reduce our chances of dealing with this.
CDU cold shouldering AfD - looks like UKIP \Tory re-run,
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-sachsen/landtagswahl-in-sachsen-afd-stuermt-in-den-dresdner-landtag-die-fdp-ist-draussen-13128384-p2.html
Well, the anti-immigration campaigners had nothing to do with causing thousands and thousands of child rapes. In fact, if the anti-immigration campaigners had had their way, we wouldn't now have this vile misogynistic culture out of rural Kashmir plaguing our cities. You know who did have something to do with it? The people going on and on and on about how The Most Important Thing (TM) is that we're ever vigilant against real and imagined racists. It was down to people like this that people were scared to put their foot down on horrific child abuse.
And yet still left-wingers go on doing it. It's like a mental condition, where they're incapable of learning from experience.
You and your ilk are entirely responsible for the way in which this has been allowed to develop and you are a complete hypocrite to now try and attack those who have been right all along.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/labour-wins-most-city-votes-in-euro-elections-165006n.24326661
The other place this scandal hits Labour is in their belief in a continuous expansion of public sector worker places in local government. How many positions have their been in Rotherham with something to do with "child protection" or "community engagement" in their name, yet failed to pick up on this? What you need is one person with responsibility.