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The worst political bet on the market today? – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660
    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    I agree. That this guy was popular - and he was - says something about us and imo what it says isn't great. It can't all be explained away with "but Corbyn". Johnson got the gig because Tory MPs judged (correctly) that he'd win them an election. They knew he was unfit to be PM but they also knew (from polls) that the public either didn't realize this or didn't care. The latter knowledge was what counted the most.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    FF43 said:

    The Earl of Inverness scandal spreads. Latest witnesses due to be contacted include the Duke of Rothesay, Sarah Ferguson and Princess Beatrice.

    Duke of Albany surely? It's remarkable just how many evil dukes of Albany there have been. From the first one who usurped the throne, killed the first in line and attempted to kill the second in line. The one who tried to sell part of Scotland to England. The one who was a high ranking Nazi involved in the concentration camps. Now this one.
    No, wrong one. Rothesay is another title held by Cornwall = Wales, Prince of.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    Quincel said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    This wine in a suitcase thing. Surely the police would have checked any large baggage item being wheeled into number 10? I'd be quite alarmed if not. So they must have known that a social gathering was in progress.

    No, Dominic C says pass holders aren't checked at all
    As someone who briefly worked in Parliament, I can confirm this. They literally wave you past the metal detectors. Those are for visitors.
    Con majority next GE 2.88 is the same order of value, but you can lay that at 3.1
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572

    Is The Drake still banning crowds from all sports events?

    It’s being relaxed shortly. Lovely to see footage of the Quinn’s vs Cardiff match last night. An empty stadium missed eight tries, while in icu in Wales there are hardly any Covid patients.
    It’s bizarre, this omicron ‘wave’, absolutely draconian restrictions in lots of areas at huge socioeconomic cost for no benefit.

    Why TF didn’t we listen to the South Africans?
    Some of us did. However what I think has no effect on society. It’s hard to blame those charged with protecting the nation for being cautious.
    However some of the way people reacted was bizarre, almost as if they wanted it to wrong (the idea that omicron was different and wasn’t a problem).
    That and the idea that South Africans are fundamentally a different species to the British...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    Conservative voters now split on whether Boris Johnson should resign

    Should resign – 41% of 2019 Tory voters
    Should remain in his role – 47%

    Even one in five of those who currently intend to vote for the party want to see him gone

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/15/four-ten-who-voted-conservative-2019-say-boris-joh?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=boris_johnson_resign https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1482296011552960515/photo/1

    70% of Britons think Boris Johnson has not given an honest account of 20 May 2020 when he says he believed that he was at a work event.

    By 52% to 27%, Tory voters also think Boris has not been honest

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/15/four-ten-who-voted-conservative-2019-say-boris-joh?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=boris_johnson_resign https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1482296017563303940/photo/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    edited January 15
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
    So by the same token, anybody who didn't vote for Corbyn is responsible for all this.
    No, I'm not carrying the blame for how other people vote. I could see that both Boris and Corbyn were wrong uns, and I voted accordingly. Everyone else had the same choice.
    I can live with my 2019 vote. If you can't live with yours without resorting to a fiction that there was no other choice, that's your issue to deal with, but it is, objectively, based on a fiction.
    The point is that, if we had STV, you could look at the slate of candidates offered by your local Tories and think, "that Fabricant, he's an idiot" and so leave him off, or at least put him lower down and the other Tories higher up.

    Under our system, you can't do that, and are stuck with whomever the local Tory party sees fit to offer you. How palpable morons like Fabricant or Chope (or Sultana, from the other side) get dropped into these plum safe seats is another story, which I don't really understand. But it does the voter no favours.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,607
    Mood of the Tory grassroots from @ConHome: new survey says 53% of members want Boris Johnson to go now - split opinion reflects the parliamentary party

    Question is how much of the 43% who say they want the PM to say think he should go but at a later date

    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2022/01/over-half-our-panel-of-party-members-want-johnson-to-resign-now.html
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    Commentators can do what they like. But not leaders of nations. I don’t think the other national leaders in the U.K. have done this.
    It's a pretty regular feature of PMQs that the PM comments on Scottish devolved policy in response to SNP questions.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,040
    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Making political capital out of different COVID measures? Shocking stuff. Well done for making a political point about different COVID measures in Wales and Scotland btw.
  • Is The Drake still banning crowds from all sports events?

    Latest changes

    BBC News - Covid in Wales: Rules easing welcomed by sports clubs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60001785
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
    So by the same token, anybody who didn't vote for Corbyn is responsible for all this.
    No, I'm not carrying the blame for how other people vote. I could see that both Boris and Corbyn were wrong uns, and I voted accordingly. Everyone else had the same choice.
    I can live with my 2019 vote. If you can't live with yours without resorting to a fiction that there was no other choice, that's your issue to deal with, but it is, objectively, based on a fiction.
    The point is that, if we had STV, you could look at the slate of candidates offered by your local Tories and think, "that Fabricant, he's an idiot" and so leave him off, or at least put him lower down and the other Tories higher up.

    Under our system, you can't do that, and are stuck with whomever the local Tory party sees fit to offer you. How palpable morons like Fabricant or Chope (or Sultana, from the other side) get dropped into these plum safe seats is another story, which I don't really understand. But it does the voter no favours.
    I agree with all that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,971

    Alistair King
    @Alistair_King
    My cousin’s husband is a vicar in a deprived area of Brexit-supporting Doncaster.

    He has a large flock and when he posts anything against the government, he usually gets a torrent of pro-Johnson replies; a crank outlier aside, his thoughts last night drew pure anger for Johnson.

    I don't really understand how posting anti-Government screeds is part of one's calling as a Vicar in a deprived area. I must have missed 'Blessed are those who draw pure anger' from The Sermon on the mount. Bit like that utter twat of a Vicar who was just let off for sitting on a train.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    Commentators can do what they like. But not leaders of nations. I don’t think the other national leaders in the U.K. have done this.
    It's a pretty regular feature of PMQs that the PM comments on Scottish devolved policy in response to SNP questions.
    I don’t believe they have ever been called dangerous? And to be clear the PM is PM of the whole country, Drakeford is not first minister of England, thank god.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    edited January 15
    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
    So by the same token, anybody who didn't vote for Corbyn is responsible for all this.
    No, I'm not carrying the blame for how other people vote. I could see that both Boris and Corbyn were wrong uns, and I voted accordingly. Everyone else had the same choice.
    I can live with my 2019 vote. If you can't live with yours without resorting to a fiction that there was no other choice, that's your issue to deal with, but it is, objectively, based on a fiction.
    The point is that, if we had STV, you could look at the slate of candidates offered by your local Tories and think, "that Fabricant, he's an idiot" and so leave him off, or at least put him lower down and the other Tories higher up.

    Under our system, you can't do that, and are stuck with whomever the local Tory party sees fit to offer you. How palpable morons like Fabricant or Chope (or Sultana, from the other side) get dropped into these plum safe seats is another story, which I don't really understand. But it does the voter no favours.
    We have that problem on steroids in the list vote for Holyrood (but not the local government multimember wards). Being high up in a regional list is effectively a safe seat even for those who wouldn't win a FPTP post, and they can sneak in on a very low level of the vote. And the voter can't choose between candidates as opposed to between party slates (plus independents). This is much more of an issue for Labour and the Conservatives as the SNP and IIRC SLD tend to clean up the constituency vote but because of that get marked down heavily in the list vote calculations.

    (Doesn't mean that there aren't some specimens in the constituency vote, though, but at least the voter has some chance there.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative voters now split on whether Boris Johnson should resign

    Should resign – 41% of 2019 Tory voters
    Should remain in his role – 47%

    Even one in five of those who currently intend to vote for the party want to see him gone

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/15/four-ten-who-voted-conservative-2019-say-boris-joh?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=boris_johnson_resign https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1482296011552960515/photo/1

    70% of Britons think Boris Johnson has not given an honest account of 20 May 2020 when he says he believed that he was at a work event.

    By 52% to 27%, Tory voters also think Boris has not been honest

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/15/four-ten-who-voted-conservative-2019-say-boris-joh?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=boris_johnson_resign https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1482296017563303940/photo/1

    74% of those currently still voting Conservative though want Boris to stay PM and party leader according to Yougov.

    However, yes 2019 Tory voters are split on whether Boris should stay or go
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,040
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    Commentators can do what they like. But not leaders of nations. I don’t think the other national leaders in the U.K. have done this.
    It's a pretty regular feature of PMQs that the PM comments on Scottish devolved policy in response to SNP questions.
    I don’t believe they have ever been called dangerous? And to be clear the PM is PM of the whole country, Drakeford is not first minister of England, thank god.
    Doesn't matter, I'm not the one saying that leaders should stay quiet about X or Y. I welcome Drakeford comments on English health policy, and Boris's comments on Scottish education, and Sturgeon's comments about Welsh agriculture, or whatever any of them choose to talk about. It's good that politicians look outside of their own areas of competence because it exposes them to new ideas. I wish more leaders had views on Norway and Poland and Portugal and beyond, whether or not I agree with them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,073
    Quincel said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    This wine in a suitcase thing. Surely the police would have checked any large baggage item being wheeled into number 10? I'd be quite alarmed if not. So they must have known that a social gathering was in progress.

    No, Dominic C says pass holders aren't checked at all
    As someone who briefly worked in Parliament, I can confirm this. They literally wave you past the metal detectors. Those are for visitors.
    Just imagine the outcry, if MPs and their staff were subject to the same security rules as everyone else?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    Leon said:

    It is January 15. We are halfway through winter. Getting There

    Well done everyone

    Or 3 weeks into it
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    Alistair said:
    That's a really good satellite movie. Is it real time or speeded up, do you know, please?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,651
    Morning all :)

    Away from the new blood sport of hunting down Boris Johnson, a quick peruse of the afternoon's equine activities.

    Kempton hangs in the balance due to fog with an inspection at 11.20.

    Warwick isn't the most interesting card I've ever seen - PARTY BUSINESS might be a topical winner of the 2.25.

    In times of adversity, therefore, it's off to Lingfield to make up today's Patent which is a 1-point win:

    12.35 Lingfield: PARTY ON GIRL
    1.45 Lingfield: INTUITIVE
    2.25 Warwick: PARTY BUSINESS

    You won't get rich (unless you are already rich of course) on these but hopefully we'll get all three up to pay for whatever it is that needs paying for (such as a drinks fridge).
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,866

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Making political capital out of different COVID measures? Shocking stuff. Well done for making a political point about different COVID measures in Wales and Scotland btw.
    I see "Scottish Cases are higher than in England according to OFFICIAL FIGURES" lasted all of 2 days.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 1,330
    One aspect of our experience of Covid is that it is a power grab in an era of mass psychosis and hysteria.

    Politicians and those that surround them gaining gratification and delight from exercising dominance and control over populations, helping them to pursue their agendas. Sturgeon, Drakeford, No.10. It is the same experience everywhere.

    The events at No.10, and amongst politicians and the civil service, is actually a good thing. It reinforces the need for scepticism, about those in power. I can only hope the public have been duly educated, on this point; but there is certainly no guarantee of that.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,866
    edited January 15
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:
    That's a really good satellite movie. Is it real time or speeded up, do you know, please?
    Speeded up I think. You can see other views here with the timeline on the bottom:
    https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/goes/sector_band.php?sat=G17&sector=tsp&band=Sandwich&length=36&dim=1


    bottom right corner of the world here:
    https://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/loop.asp?data_folder=himawari-8/full_disk_ahi_true_color&width=800&height=800&number_of_images_to_display=60&loop_speed_ms=100

    Absolutely fucking massive to use a scientific term,
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,612
    edited January 15
    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
    So by the same token, anybody who didn't vote for Corbyn is responsible for all this.
    No, I'm not carrying the blame for how other people vote. I could see that both Boris and Corbyn were wrong uns, and I voted accordingly. Everyone else had the same choice.
    I can live with my 2019 vote. If you can't live with yours without resorting to a fiction that there was no other choice, that's your issue to deal with, but it is, objectively, based on a fiction.
    The point is that, if we had STV, you could look at the slate of candidates offered by your local Tories and think, "that Fabricant, he's an idiot" and so leave him off, or at least put him lower down and the other Tories higher up.

    Under our system, you can't do that, and are stuck with whomever the local Tory party sees fit to offer you. How palpable morons like Fabricant or Chope (or Sultana, from the other side) get dropped into these plum safe seats is another story, which I don't really understand. But it does the voter no favours.
    You need to go back a stage. We have a democracy which is fairly well understood. It rests on a few principles.

    Everyone can vote
    Everyone can stand for election
    Everyone can organise as a political party
    Everyone can belong to a party and be involved in its processes.
    First past the post wins.

    What you can't do is criticise outcomes simply because you don't like them. Outcomes like inappropriate candidates in safe seats rest on the voters making them safe seats, and the party which anyone can join putting up a donkey with a red/blue rosette.

  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114

    Andrew Bridgen very good on Sky

    CAnt remember agreeing with him before but he is quite right.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,511
    Leon said:

    It is January 15. We are halfway through winter. Getting There

    Well done everyone

    Thanks. It would have been so much harder without your entertaining drivel to help pass the time.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,651
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:
    That's a really good satellite movie. Is it real time or speeded up, do you know, please?
    It's a very serious event - tsunami warnings are out across the whole south Pacific and waves have reached American Samoa and New Caledonia.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    Ha, not quite. I think reserved matters are open to all under this bold new tyranny.
    Although, now i think of it, Swedish Stu is OUT, as are our commentators in the US. Anybody talking about M*cr*n or Tr*d*** would be instantly exiled to ConHome.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114
    Scott_xP said:

    This is vg by @CamCavendish on the central dilemma for the Tories. The party and most of its leading figures are now so tainted by association with Boris Johnson it is not clear who could claim the mantle of integrity to replace him. https://on.ft.com/31YCT2Z via @FT https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1482287036518354945/photo/1

    Former David Cameron adviser and architect of some of his more bonkers policies writes this. Hardly a shock. There are quite a few leading figures untainted and plenty who could come through. There are plenty in the cabinet who are hardly Johnson fanatics.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 1,330

    Leon said:

    It is January 15. We are halfway through winter. Getting There

    Well done everyone

    Thanks. It would have been so much harder without your entertaining drivel to help pass the time.
    I've hardly noticed the winter this year, apart from a few dark mornings/evenings and a brief leak in the roof during last weeks storm. That's one major benefit of living in the south.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 993
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    It is January 15. We are halfway through winter. Getting There

    Well done everyone

    Or 3 weeks into it
    End of the dark winter, beginning of the light winter.

    Also the fête de st Vincent isn’t far off (end of Jan). Traditionally when winter dormancy in the vines ends and the sap begins to rise again.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
    So by the same token, anybody who didn't vote for Corbyn is responsible for all this.
    No, I'm not carrying the blame for how other people vote. I could see that both Boris and Corbyn were wrong uns, and I voted accordingly. Everyone else had the same choice.
    I can live with my 2019 vote. If you can't live with yours without resorting to a fiction that there was no other choice, that's your issue to deal with, but it is, objectively, based on a fiction.
    The point is that, if we had STV, you could look at the slate of candidates offered by your local Tories and think, "that Fabricant, he's an idiot" and so leave him off, or at least put him lower down and the other Tories higher up.

    Under our system, you can't do that, and are stuck with whomever the local Tory party sees fit to offer you. How palpable morons like Fabricant or Chope (or Sultana, from the other side) get dropped into these plum safe seats is another story, which I don't really understand. But it does the voter no favours.
    You need to go back a stage. We have a democracy which is fairly well understood. It rests on a few principles.

    Everyone can vote
    Everyone can stand for election
    Everyone can organise as a political party
    Everyone can belong to a party and be involved in its processes.
    First past the post wins.

    What you can't do is criticise outcomes simply because you don't like them. Outcomes like inappropriate candidates in safe seats rest on the voters making them safe seats, and the party which anyone can join putting up a donkey with a red/blue rosette.

    "First past the post wins" is not a principle that applies across the board, even in this country.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,073
    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
    So by the same token, anybody who didn't vote for Corbyn is responsible for all this.
    No, I'm not carrying the blame for how other people vote. I could see that both Boris and Corbyn were wrong uns, and I voted accordingly. Everyone else had the same choice.
    I can live with my 2019 vote. If you can't live with yours without resorting to a fiction that there was no other choice, that's your issue to deal with, but it is, objectively, based on a fiction.
    The point is that, if we had STV, you could look at the slate of candidates offered by your local Tories and think, "that Fabricant, he's an idiot" and so leave him off, or at least put him lower down and the other Tories higher up.

    Under our system, you can't do that, and are stuck with whomever the local Tory party sees fit to offer you. How palpable morons like Fabricant or Chope (or Sultana, from the other side) get dropped into these plum safe seats is another story, which I don't really understand. But it does the voter no favours.
    You need to go back a stage. We have a democracy which is fairly well understood. It rests on a few principles.

    Everyone can vote
    Everyone can stand for election
    Everyone can organise as a political party
    Everyone can belong to a party and be involved in its processes.
    First past the post wins.

    What you can't do is criticise outcomes simply because you don't like them. Outcomes like inappropriate candidates in safe seats rest on the voters making them safe seats, and the party which anyone can join putting up a donkey with a red/blue rosette.

    And every so often - 1997, 2010, 2015 in Scotland, and 2019 all spring to mind, the public tells a load of MPs who thought they were in safe seats, exactly what they think of them!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331

    Q, any insight into betting opportunity for the next San Marinese general election? (Have already got Liechtenstein covered!)

    Slightly more seriously, your article is interesting (as per usual) and informative (ditto). My own view has always been, that when the Koreas reunify, it will be sudden and surprising. Akin to the last major national reunification - Germany.

    So putting a few bucks (or bob if you prefer) on One Korea by 2024 is like buying a lottery ticket at the gas station next time you fill 'er up. Less likely than getting crushed to death by a falling piano (or is it, you tell me!) But with a HUGE payoff IF it does happen.

    Not at 2/1 !

    Though I agree that reunification within a decade or so isn’t extremely unlikely. Terror regimes can fall very rapidly given the right precipitating event, and reunification in those circumstances would be very much on the agenda.

    Not that Xi’s China would like it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:
    That's a really good satellite movie. Is it real time or speeded up, do you know, please?
    Speeded up I think. You can see other views here with the timeline on the bottom:
    https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/goes/sector_band.php?sat=G17&sector=tsp&band=Sandwich&length=36&dim=1


    bottom right corner of the world here:
    https://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/loop.asp?data_folder=himawari-8/full_disk_ahi_true_color&width=800&height=800&number_of_images_to_display=60&loop_speed_ms=100

    Absolutely fucking massive to use a scientific term,
    Taxonomically precise.

    The second linky is really good. You can actually see the blast wave moving out. Thank you.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    LauraK's latest:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60003805

    TLDR: It's not at all clear how No 10 believes they can get through this crisis.

  • pm215pm215 Posts: 166
    algarkirk said:


    What you can't do is criticise outcomes simply because you don't like them. Outcomes like inappropriate candidates in safe seats rest on the voters making them safe seats, and the party which anyone can join putting up a donkey with a red/blue rosette.

    You can certainly criticise the *system* for consistently throwing up lousy outcomes, and suggest improvements to it. The UK electoral system as it currently stands is not some perfect ideal handed down from heaven and impossible to improve upon.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114

    Is The Drake still banning crowds from all sports events?

    Latest changes

    BBC News - Covid in Wales: Rules easing welcomed by sports clubs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60001785
    ‘Dangerous experiment’
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,040
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114
    IanB2 said:

    LauraK's latest:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60003805

    TLDR: It's not at all clear how No 10 believes they can get through this crisis.

    They can’t. It’s over.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,073
    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:
    That's a really good satellite movie. Is it real time or speeded up, do you know, please?
    Speeded up I think. You can see other views here with the timeline on the bottom:
    https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/goes/sector_band.php?sat=G17&sector=tsp&band=Sandwich&length=36&dim=1


    bottom right corner of the world here:
    https://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/loop.asp?data_folder=himawari-8/full_disk_ahi_true_color&width=800&height=800&number_of_images_to_display=60&loop_speed_ms=100

    Absolutely fucking massive to use a scientific term,
    At the risk of sounding like Jamie Hyneman from Mythbusters, that’s a big boom.

    Hope everyone managed to get away from it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    If the will of the Scottish people is another referendum then Westminster would be wise to grant it. Brexit changed things. It is not unreasonable to hold another voter.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    IanB2 said:

    LauraK's latest:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60003805

    TLDR: It's not at all clear how No 10 believes they can get through this crisis.

    "One senior MP described how on Friday, during a standard school visit, he was asked by a group of nine-year-olds whether or not the prime minister was going to resign, and then was catcalled by teenage pupils about Boris Johnson's behaviour."
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,651
    13% swing Conservative-Labour with Find Out Now, 11% with ComRes.

    Dreadful numbers by any measure and after months of defying gravity, mid term has hit the Government hard and fast (I'll leave @TSE to add analogies to being shellacked like a dockside hooker).

    Is there a way back? Well, to a point, as the cobbler reminds us, time wounds all heels so a period of masterly inactivity (nothing going wrong) will do wonders but the next election is for the first time looking like a real fight and the corollary of that is people may or will start looking to what a Labour Government might look like.

    I wonder if Starmer will be more about playing the managerialist, technocratic card than anything too radical. Wilson and Blair won without "frightening the horses" (Attlee's victory was in unique circumstances). People will be put off by radical Labour but managerialist centrist "sensible" Labour will start to look a refreshing change.

    Whatever you may think of him, it's hard to imagine Starmer comporting himself in office the way Johnson has and that's a huge advantage for him at this time.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Away from the new blood sport of hunting down Boris Johnson, a quick peruse of the afternoon's equine activities.

    Kempton hangs in the balance due to fog with an inspection at 11.20.

    Warwick isn't the most interesting card I've ever seen - PARTY BUSINESS might be a topical winner of the 2.25.

    In times of adversity, therefore, it's off to Lingfield to make up today's Patent which is a 1-point win:

    12.35 Lingfield: PARTY ON GIRL
    1.45 Lingfield: INTUITIVE
    2.25 Warwick: PARTY BUSINESS

    You won't get rich (unless you are already rich of course) on these but hopefully we'll get all three up to pay for whatever it is that needs paying for (such as a drinks fridge).

    Thing is with Fog it can just go in a blink!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499

    Is The Drake still banning crowds from all sports events?

    Latest changes

    BBC News - Covid in Wales: Rules easing welcomed by sports clubs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60001785
    500 fans: so still effectively closed doors then?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,257
    Farooq said:

    Anybody talking about M*cr*n or Tr*d*** would be instantly exiled to ConHome.

    Your M&S cardigan, hypertension medication and Hyundai Kona will be issued on arrival.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380
    edited January 15
    Nigelb said:

    Q, any insight into betting opportunity for the next San Marinese general election? (Have already got Liechtenstein covered!)

    Slightly more seriously, your article is interesting (as per usual) and informative (ditto). My own view has always been, that when the Koreas reunify, it will be sudden and surprising. Akin to the last major national reunification - Germany.

    So putting a few bucks (or bob if you prefer) on One Korea by 2024 is like buying a lottery ticket at the gas station next time you fill 'er up. Less likely than getting crushed to death by a falling piano (or is it, you tell me!) But with a HUGE payoff IF it does happen.

    Not at 2/1 !

    Though I agree that reunification within a decade or so isn’t extremely unlikely. Terror regimes can fall very rapidly given the right precipitating event, and reunification in those circumstances would be very much on the agenda.

    Not that Xi’s China would like it.
    If China was vaguely subtle about it, re-unification could be massively to their advantage.

    Lend the unified Korea the hundreds of billions to rebuild the North, at low interest. Or none. One one condition - no foreign troops or bases in Korea.

    This would gratify Korean nationalists, and make the unified Korea a friendly country to China. Plus would play well internationally.

    Because of size, a unified Korea can never be a threat to China anyway. Kicking the US out of the South would be a big win for the Chinese policy of pushing the US out of South East Asia..

    Xi isn't smart enough to do that - I think he would try and use money etc to make the unified Korea a vassal state.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 36,073

    Is The Drake still banning crowds from all sports events?

    Latest changes

    BBC News - Covid in Wales: Rules easing welcomed by sports clubs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60001785
    500 fans: so still effectively closed doors then?
    That might be fine for Aberystwyth FC, but the Welsh Rugby Union want at least 50,000, not 500.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 14,971
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    If the will of the Scottish people is another referendum then Westminster would be wise to grant it. Brexit changed things. It is not unreasonable to hold another voter.
    :lol: Which voter did you have in mind?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,040
    stodge said:

    13% swing Conservative-Labour with Find Out Now, 11% with ComRes.

    Dreadful numbers by any measure and after months of defying gravity, mid term has hit the Government hard and fast (I'll leave @TSE to add analogies to being shellacked like a dockside hooker).

    Is there a way back? Well, to a point, as the cobbler reminds us, time wounds all heels so a period of masterly inactivity (nothing going wrong) will do wonders but the next election is for the first time looking like a real fight and the corollary of that is people may or will start looking to what a Labour Government might look like.

    I wonder if Starmer will be more about playing the managerialist, technocratic card than anything too radical. Wilson and Blair won without "frightening the horses" (Attlee's victory was in unique circumstances). People will be put off by radical Labour but managerialist centrist "sensible" Labour will start to look a refreshing change.

    Whatever you may think of him, it's hard to imagine Starmer comporting himself in office the way Johnson has and that's a huge advantage for him at this time.

    Masterly inactivity is always an option but one wonders if Johnson & co have reached the point where if nothing much is happening the public immediately thinks what are the slippery, crooked, self serving liars up to now?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,849
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    Ha, not quite. I think reserved matters are open to all under this bold new tyranny.
    Although, now i think of it, Swedish Stu is OUT, as are our commentators in the US. Anybody talking about M*cr*n or Tr*d*** would be instantly exiled to ConHome.
    What grave transgression have I done now? Is there a viking embargo? I promise not to rape and pillage.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,849
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    Commentators can do what they like. But not leaders of nations. I don’t think the other national leaders in the U.K. have done this.
    It's a pretty regular feature of PMQs that the PM comments on Scottish devolved policy in response to SNP questions.
    One rule for them…
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,849

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    Commentators can do what they like. But not leaders of nations. I don’t think the other national leaders in the U.K. have done this.
    It's a pretty regular feature of PMQs that the PM comments on Scottish devolved policy in response to SNP questions.
    I don’t believe they have ever been called dangerous? And to be clear the PM is PM of the whole country, Drakeford is not first minister of England, thank god.
    De jure. Not de facto. Absolutely laughable to try to pretend that Boris Johnson has our best interests at heart, or that he represents Scotland.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    Ha, not quite. I think reserved matters are open to all under this bold new tyranny.
    Although, now i think of it, Swedish Stu is OUT, as are our commentators in the US. Anybody talking about M*cr*n or Tr*d*** would be instantly exiled to ConHome.
    What grave transgression have I done now? Is there a viking embargo? I promise not to rape and pillage.
    In any case, AIUI you retain your vote for some years, and will do so indefinitely under current Tory proposals.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    The scope of "forever" just shortened pretty considerably. HYUFD folded last night, no Tory government for the next decade, because Dom.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,040
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    Commentators can do what they like. But not leaders of nations. I don’t think the other national leaders in the U.K. have done this.
    It's a pretty regular feature of PMQs that the PM comments on Scottish devolved policy in response to SNP questions.
    That would be Scottish Nationalist Party questions.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,849

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Making political capital out of different COVID measures? Shocking stuff. Well done for making a political point about different COVID measures in Wales and Scotland btw.
    One rule for them…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,572
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    If the will of the Scottish people is another referendum then Westminster would be wise to grant it. Brexit changed things. It is not unreasonable to hold another voter.
    Absolutely reasonable to have another vote. I think it would be prudent to have a generation clause it the formal vote this time round... It seems damaging to be in a situation of trying to get lucky by voting every few years.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284

    Nigelb said:

    Q, any insight into betting opportunity for the next San Marinese general election? (Have already got Liechtenstein covered!)

    Slightly more seriously, your article is interesting (as per usual) and informative (ditto). My own view has always been, that when the Koreas reunify, it will be sudden and surprising. Akin to the last major national reunification - Germany.

    So putting a few bucks (or bob if you prefer) on One Korea by 2024 is like buying a lottery ticket at the gas station next time you fill 'er up. Less likely than getting crushed to death by a falling piano (or is it, you tell me!) But with a HUGE payoff IF it does happen.

    Not at 2/1 !

    Though I agree that reunification within a decade or so isn’t extremely unlikely. Terror regimes can fall very rapidly given the right precipitating event, and reunification in those circumstances would be very much on the agenda.

    Not that Xi’s China would like it.
    If China was vaguely subtle about it, re-unification could be massively to their advantage.

    Lend the unified Korea the hundreds of billions to rebuild the North, at low interest. Or none. One one condition - no foreign troops or bases in Korea.

    This would gratify Korean nationalists, and make the unified Korea a friendly country to China. Plus would play well internationally.

    Because of size, a unified Korea can never be a threat to China anyway. Kicking the US out of the South would be a big win for the Chinese policy of pushing the US out of South East Asia..

    Xi isn't smart enough to do that - I think he would try and use money etc to make the unified Korea a vassal state.
    The only reason South Korea exists still is the Korean War when US and western forces fought off a North Korean invasion supported by communist China
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,302
    IanB2 said:

    LauraK's latest:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60003805

    TLDR: It's not at all clear how No 10 believes they can get through this crisis.

    It is clear - play for time, offer up some sacrificial lambs, and hope it fizzles out.

    The effectiveness of that is another matter. I think it buys them to at least May .
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Making political capital out of different COVID measures? Shocking stuff. Well done for making a political point about different COVID measures in Wales and Scotland btw.
    One rule for them…
    🥱🥱
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited January 15
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    The scope of "forever" just shortened pretty considerably. HYUFD folded last night, no Tory government for the next decade, because Dom.
    Even in two decades a Tory government returned back to power would still not allow indyref2.

    Nor would Starmer either as PM unless he leads a minority government reliant on the SNP. Otherwise he would give devomax at most
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    If the will of the Scottish people is another referendum then Westminster would be wise to grant it. Brexit changed things. It is not unreasonable to hold another voter.
    :lol: Which voter did you have in mind?
    Baldrick, just like in the Blackadder III by election episode.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331
    .

    Alistair King
    @Alistair_King
    My cousin’s husband is a vicar in a deprived area of Brexit-supporting Doncaster.

    He has a large flock and when he posts anything against the government, he usually gets a torrent of pro-Johnson replies; a crank outlier aside, his thoughts last night drew pure anger for Johnson.

    I don't really understand how posting anti-Government screeds is part of one's calling as a Vicar in a deprived area. I must have missed 'Blessed are those who draw pure anger' from The Sermon on the mount. Bit like that utter twat of a Vicar who was just let off for sitting on a train.
    Where does it say ‘anti-Government screeds’ ?
    You’re reading rather a lot into that post which isn’t there, and ignoring what is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,302
    stodge said:

    13% swing Conservative-Labour with Find Out Now, 11% with ComRes.

    Dreadful numbers by any measure and after months of defying gravity, mid term has hit the Government hard and fast (I'll leave @TSE to add analogies to being shellacked like a dockside hooker).

    Is there a way back? Well, to a point, as the cobbler reminds us, time wounds all heels so a period of masterly inactivity (nothing going wrong) will do wonders but the next election is for the first time looking like a real fight and the corollary of that is people may or will start looking to what a Labour Government might look like.

    I wonder if Starmer will be more about playing the managerialist, technocratic card than anything too radical. Wilson and Blair won without "frightening the horses" (Attlee's victory was in unique circumstances). People will be put off by radical Labour but managerialist centrist "sensible" Labour will start to look a refreshing change.

    Whatever you may think of him, it's hard to imagine Starmer comporting himself in office the way Johnson has and that's a huge advantage for him at this time.

    The best chance to do something radical is if people do not think you are that radical. If they do, even centrist things look radical and they may balk.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 12,649
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LauraK's latest:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60003805

    TLDR: It's not at all clear how No 10 believes they can get through this crisis.

    It is clear - play for time, offer up some sacrificial lambs, and hope it fizzles out.

    The effectiveness of that is another matter. I think it buys them to at least May .
    I think that would probably work, if there was not a massive cost of living crisis coming up. To successfully navigate that with the public starting on your side would have been tricky, but with people already feeling angry before it kicks in it will be close to impossible. Perhaps they can somehow find a way to pay for it on the never never. No good for the long term of the country but what do they care about that?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    Cyclefree said:

    One question I have is this: who formally is in charge of staff at No 10? There will be political advisors appointed by the PM. But the rest will be permanent civil servants, no? Reporting to whom?

    I do not seek to excuse the PM's responsibility but surely there are serious questions to be asked about the behaviour of those in charge of the civil servants.

    Why did no-one try and stop these regular drinking sessions? Or remind them of the lockdown requirements? Or seek to take disciplinary action? Who authorised the payment for the fridge etc etc?

    I appreciate that the hypocrisy is what grates but there also seems to be a failure of management and leadership and, yes, hypocrisy, too within parts of the civil service. It is not enough to clear out one or two politicians. Parts of the civil service do not appear to be fit for purpose either.

    Fridge was a whip round
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,040

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    Commentators can do what they like. But not leaders of nations. I don’t think the other national leaders in the U.K. have done this.
    It's a pretty regular feature of PMQs that the PM comments on Scottish devolved policy in response to SNP questions.
    One rule for them…
    Here’s a minister of the UK government not commenting on devolved policies.

    https://twitter.com/frcola1/status/1479385689913450496?s=21
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,753

    Article in The Times: ‘We’re swapping a £40k nanny for a £10k au pair: preparing for the cost of living squeeze.’

    How the other half live.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    dixiedean said:

    Good morning.
    Having slept on it I can truly say that the fact that those with passes don't get scanned or searched on the way into Downing Street is one of the most shockingly irresponsible and elitistly imbeclic things I have ever heard.
    It speaks to an us and them culture and fosters a bunker mentality. Massive gates to keep the plebs out. Do as you please for insiders.
    This isn't a political point, as it isn't new.
    Terrorist attack waiting to happen.

    “But he has always seemed a good boy. Very intelligent everybody’s friend. And I genuinely thought the suitcase was full of wine. Anyway. Good job I was on field trip to Australia when SW1A disappeared into history. Now you have me as leader!”

    You don’t have to have an ISIS flag flying in the back yard or a dodgy internet history to be dangerous. Security had to be on the, you never can tell. Surely?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,920
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:

    13% swing Conservative-Labour with Find Out Now, 11% with ComRes.

    Dreadful numbers by any measure and after months of defying gravity, mid term has hit the Government hard and fast (I'll leave @TSE to add analogies to being shellacked like a dockside hooker).

    Is there a way back? Well, to a point, as the cobbler reminds us, time wounds all heels so a period of masterly inactivity (nothing going wrong) will do wonders but the next election is for the first time looking like a real fight and the corollary of that is people may or will start looking to what a Labour Government might look like.

    I wonder if Starmer will be more about playing the managerialist, technocratic card than anything too radical. Wilson and Blair won without "frightening the horses" (Attlee's victory was in unique circumstances). People will be put off by radical Labour but managerialist centrist "sensible" Labour will start to look a refreshing change.

    Whatever you may think of him, it's hard to imagine Starmer comporting himself in office the way Johnson has and that's a huge advantage for him at this time.

    The best chance to do something radical is if people do not think you are that radical. If they do, even centrist things look radical and they may balk.
    Yes, he's got a statement out today promising cuts in waiting lists but saying it's not just about throwing money at the issue, etc. - sounds vaguely encouraging but far from reckless.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/14/starmer-vows-great-renewal-of-nhs-in-bid-to-make-labour-a-vote-winner
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    I have just gone up onto bedroom balcony, looked in direction of aptly named Sunbury, and given my best blow. 🌬. Expect dramatic changes. 🙂
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    One question I have is this: who formally is in charge of staff at No 10? There will be political advisors appointed by the PM. But the rest will be permanent civil servants, no? Reporting to whom?

    I do not seek to excuse the PM's responsibility but surely there are serious questions to be asked about the behaviour of those in charge of the civil servants.

    Why did no-one try and stop these regular drinking sessions? Or remind them of the lockdown requirements? Or seek to take disciplinary action? Who authorised the payment for the fridge etc etc?

    I appreciate that the hypocrisy is what grates but there also seems to be a failure of management and leadership and, yes, hypocrisy, too within parts of the civil service. It is not enough to clear out one or two politicians. Parts of the civil service do not appear to be fit for purpose either.

    Fridge was a whip round
    In which case, an unauthorised piece of electrical equipment. I used to work in a civil service quango and they really, really did not like that sort of thing. They provided official fridges to keep the milk and the ham sandwiches in and cool the wine for the very occasional leaving do.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    One question I have is this: who formally is in charge of staff at No 10? There will be political advisors appointed by the PM. But the rest will be permanent civil servants, no? Reporting to whom?

    I do not seek to excuse the PM's responsibility but surely there are serious questions to be asked about the behaviour of those in charge of the civil servants.

    Why did no-one try and stop these regular drinking sessions? Or remind them of the lockdown requirements? Or seek to take disciplinary action? Who authorised the payment for the fridge etc etc?

    I appreciate that the hypocrisy is what grates but there also seems to be a failure of management and leadership and, yes, hypocrisy, too within parts of the civil service. It is not enough to clear out one or two politicians. Parts of the civil service do not appear to be fit for purpose either.

    Fridge was a whip round
    I love ‘A Fridge Too Far”
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,308
    Scott_xP said:

    As Boris has found out , having petty or puritanical rules in the workplace is not a good idea as somebody will break then at some point and usually the top brass even if they just get into a unplanned scenario. Then what do you do , sack yourself or your main man/woman? Of course not but then you are just a fking hypocrite . So bosses everywhere treat staff with the respect adults deserve and dont go all puritanical and petty

    BoZo's problem is not a puritanical workplace.

    His problem is he imposed puritanical rules on the whole country, except his own house.

    And then he is just a fking hypocrite
    There's another aspect.

    Downing Street gives the impression of being full of thick poshos who alternate between hammering social media and hammering alcohol.

    Without anyone ever doing any actual work.

    I suspect Boris's "I didn't realise it was a social meeting" doesn't do him any good here.

    Because anyone who has done some actual work is very aware of the difference between working and a social meeting.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    One question I have is this: who formally is in charge of staff at No 10? There will be political advisors appointed by the PM. But the rest will be permanent civil servants, no? Reporting to whom?

    I do not seek to excuse the PM's responsibility but surely there are serious questions to be asked about the behaviour of those in charge of the civil servants.

    Why did no-one try and stop these regular drinking sessions? Or remind them of the lockdown requirements? Or seek to take disciplinary action? Who authorised the payment for the fridge etc etc?

    I appreciate that the hypocrisy is what grates but there also seems to be a failure of management and leadership and, yes, hypocrisy, too within parts of the civil service. It is not enough to clear out one or two politicians. Parts of the civil service do not appear to be fit for purpose either.

    Fridge was a whip round
    Would still need to be signed off by someone and tested that it was safe.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,258
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:
    That's a really good satellite movie. Is it real time or speeded up, do you know, please?
    Speeded up I think. You can see other views here with the timeline on the bottom:
    https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/goes/sector_band.php?sat=G17&sector=tsp&band=Sandwich&length=36&dim=1


    bottom right corner of the world here:
    https://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/loop.asp?data_folder=himawari-8/full_disk_ahi_true_color&width=800&height=800&number_of_images_to_display=60&loop_speed_ms=100

    Absolutely fucking massive to use a scientific term,
    Taxonomically precise.

    The second linky is really good. You can actually see the blast wave moving out. Thank you.
    Has it reached Hobart yet? The draw is 130 on BF.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 993
    Andy_JS said:

    Article in The Times: ‘We’re swapping a £40k nanny for a £10k au pair: preparing for the cost of living squeeze.’

    How the other half live.
    Classic clickbait that article, and it’s worked.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,257
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LauraK's latest:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60003805

    TLDR: It's not at all clear how No 10 believes they can get through this crisis.

    It is clear - play for time, offer up some sacrificial lambs, and hope it fizzles out.

    The effectiveness of that is another matter. I think it buys them to at least May .
    Unless Sue Grey, P.I. demonstrates Johnson gave NutNut a Dirty Sanchez while wearing a giant foam cowboy hat, swigging Strongbow and singing Wonderwall the anger will burn out soon.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,114
    eek said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    One question I have is this: who formally is in charge of staff at No 10? There will be political advisors appointed by the PM. But the rest will be permanent civil servants, no? Reporting to whom?

    I do not seek to excuse the PM's responsibility but surely there are serious questions to be asked about the behaviour of those in charge of the civil servants.

    Why did no-one try and stop these regular drinking sessions? Or remind them of the lockdown requirements? Or seek to take disciplinary action? Who authorised the payment for the fridge etc etc?

    I appreciate that the hypocrisy is what grates but there also seems to be a failure of management and leadership and, yes, hypocrisy, too within parts of the civil service. It is not enough to clear out one or two politicians. Parts of the civil service do not appear to be fit for purpose either.

    Fridge was a whip round
    Would still need to be signed off by someone and tested that it was safe.
    True, I had to have my desktop fan PAT tested
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    Cyclefree said:

    One question I have is this: who formally is in charge of staff at No 10? There will be political advisors appointed by the PM. But the rest will be permanent civil servants, no? Reporting to whom?

    I do not seek to excuse the PM's responsibility but surely there are serious questions to be asked about the behaviour of those in charge of the civil servants.

    Why did no-one try and stop these regular drinking sessions? Or remind them of the lockdown requirements? Or seek to take disciplinary action? Who authorised the payment for the fridge etc etc?

    I appreciate that the hypocrisy is what grates but there also seems to be a failure of management and leadership and, yes, hypocrisy, too within parts of the civil service. It is not enough to clear out one or two politicians. Parts of the civil service do not appear to be fit for purpose either.

    Only parts of it?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,308
    As suggested previously the number of covid deaths is currently being inflated:

    Covid deaths are rising sharply in the UK, but an increasing proportion of these are actually due to something else, BBC analysis suggests.

    That's because some people die with Covid rather than from it.

    The Omicron wave is driving rising infections, which means more people will catch it and some will get sick.

    Deaths will inevitably increase too, but not all will be "true" Covid ones. Others will be people who happened to test positive.

    ...

    During autumn and the run-up to Christmas, only about 15% of deaths involving Covid in England and Wales did not list Covid as the cause.

    In the week after Christmas, that rose to 22%.

    And in the coming weeks "we might expect that to rise further" says Cambridge statistician Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter "reflecting the very high levels of people with coronavirus".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60000391
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,753
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Article in The Times: ‘We’re swapping a £40k nanny for a £10k au pair: preparing for the cost of living squeeze.’

    How the other half live.
    Classic clickbait that article, and it’s worked.
    Haven't read the article yet. Might do later
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,139

    Article in The Times: ‘We’re swapping a £40k nanny for a £10k au pair: preparing for the cost of living squeeze.’

    This is actually really useful: I now know how much to charge Mrs J for some of my services. ;)

    I'll just put my pinny on...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,985
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    If the will of the Scottish people is another referendum then Westminster would be wise to grant it. Brexit changed things. It is not unreasonable to hold another voter.
    :lol: Which voter did you have in mind?
    Baldrick, just like in the Blackadder III by election episode.
    Baldrick was the candidate. Blackadder was the voter.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 12,649

    Scott_xP said:

    As Boris has found out , having petty or puritanical rules in the workplace is not a good idea as somebody will break then at some point and usually the top brass even if they just get into a unplanned scenario. Then what do you do , sack yourself or your main man/woman? Of course not but then you are just a fking hypocrite . So bosses everywhere treat staff with the respect adults deserve and dont go all puritanical and petty

    BoZo's problem is not a puritanical workplace.

    His problem is he imposed puritanical rules on the whole country, except his own house.

    And then he is just a fking hypocrite
    There's another aspect.

    Downing Street gives the impression of being full of thick poshos who alternate between hammering social media and hammering alcohol.

    Without anyone ever doing any actual work.

    I suspect Boris's "I didn't realise it was a social meeting" doesn't do him any good here.

    Because anyone who has done some actual work is very aware of the difference between working and a social meeting.
    Surely no-one thinks he thinks it was a work meeting? He is simply saying it as the equivalent of taking the fifth, to avoid admitting to a criminal offence.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,601
    edited January 15

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Billings goes, caught on the boundary hooking. I mean, what is the thinking of this (I use the word generously, of course)?
    Woakes nearly got caught the same way earlier in the over but he is a bowling all rounder, even if he puts most of the top order to shame. There is absolutely no excuse for a supposedly top order batsman playing shots like that in this situation. Its undisciplined.

    I suspect he calculated 'one hook and I've saved the follow on.' Would be quite typical of Billings' mindset in his years at Kent.
    Sigh. They’re chasing 300, following-on should be the last thing on their silly minds.
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Both Scotland and Wales are rolling back their unnecessary measures to tackle Omicron. The leader of the Welsh regime even tried making political capital out of the difference between their measures and England’s. Wales and Scotland needlessly damaged their hospitality sector at the time they most needed the custom just to play politics. Shame on them.

    Decisions I don't agree with = "playing politics". Childish stuff from you.
    Drakeford accused the U.K. government of being risky, and dangerous. He should keep to discussions of his own moronic policies, such as cancelling park runs.
    By the same token, should all English commentators be silent on that which happens outwith England?
    That’d be half of PB’s content culled in a oner.
    We'd have to have a forum Speaker who would decide whether marginal policy discussions are devolved or reserved.
    E.g. Leon's ALIEN ROCKET story from yesterday. Defence is reserved so I'm allowed to speak. Mental health services are devolved, so I get the ban hammer. Tricky.
    And just imagine, no Scottish PBer would ever be allowed to comment on Scottish constitutional matters such as independence.
    HYUFD’s ‘doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, no Tory government will ever allow another referendum’ stamping on a human face, forever.
    If the will of the Scottish people is another referendum then Westminster would be wise to grant it. Brexit changed things. It is not unreasonable to hold another voter.
    Absolutely reasonable to have another vote. I think it would be prudent to have a generation clause it the formal vote this time round... It seems damaging to be in a situation of trying to get lucky by voting every few years.
    The GFA allows NI a vote on the border every 7 years, if they want it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Q, any insight into betting opportunity for the next San Marinese general election? (Have already got Liechtenstein covered!)

    Slightly more seriously, your article is interesting (as per usual) and informative (ditto). My own view has always been, that when the Koreas reunify, it will be sudden and surprising. Akin to the last major national reunification - Germany.

    So putting a few bucks (or bob if you prefer) on One Korea by 2024 is like buying a lottery ticket at the gas station next time you fill 'er up. Less likely than getting crushed to death by a falling piano (or is it, you tell me!) But with a HUGE payoff IF it does happen.

    Not at 2/1 !

    Though I agree that reunification within a decade or so isn’t extremely unlikely. Terror regimes can fall very rapidly given the right precipitating event, and reunification in those circumstances would be very much on the agenda.

    Not that Xi’s China would like it.
    If China was vaguely subtle about it, re-unification could be massively to their advantage.

    Lend the unified Korea the hundreds of billions to rebuild the North, at low interest. Or none. One one condition - no foreign troops or bases in Korea.

    This would gratify Korean nationalists, and make the unified Korea a friendly country to China. Plus would play well internationally.

    Because of size, a unified Korea can never be a threat to China anyway. Kicking the US out of the South would be a big win for the Chinese policy of pushing the US out of South East Asia..

    Xi isn't smart enough to do that - I think he would try and use money etc to make the unified Korea a vassal state.
    The only reason South Korea exists still is the Korean War when US and western forces fought off a North Korean invasion supported by communist China
    I was starting to get politically aware when it all happened. Much later lived next door to an ex-regular who'd served there.
    It was a war which swung wildly back and fro; the South, which couldn't really be described as democratic, plus the US and friends was losing badly until they 'went round the back', landed at Inchon close to the border and cut the North's supply lines. Then the North's army was chased back almost to the Chinese border, which was when the Chinese came in and drove the South and it's allies back to where everyone had started.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant accuses the BBC/media of launching a ‘coup’ against the Prime Minister https://twitter.com/mike_fabricant/status/1482250303395278848

    Conservative MP Michael Fabricant launched a coup against common sense many years ago. He successfully eliminated it from his body.
    Certainly, as Cummings says, there are elements in the media who have never forgiven Boris for Brexit and are happy to go after him which makes it all the more bizarre he makes it so easy for them. Fabricant would be better off being angered at Boris for his endless, unforced, errors.
    Yes, but he won't be because he's very stupid.

    This is a man who spent years arguing against electrification of a local railway line because of the increased noise from electric trains.

    Yes, really. He actually demanded a reduced speed limit to compensate...
    This is the problem with our voting system.

    We ask, why do voters keep electing someone who is patently a moron.

    And the answer is that their favoured party gives them no other choice.
    That's letting the voters off too easily.
    Every single constituency at the last election had a choice of at least three candidates. Nobody had to vote for either Boris or Corbyn. If you voted for either party you get to wear it, for good or for ill.
    No, I don't agree. Any vote not for Boris risked PM Corbyn. Any vote for a Conservative candidate was a reasonable choice on that basis if no other.
    Also the Lib Dems were utterly shit. Bollocks to Brexit, Bollocks to Brexit, Transsexuals, Transsexuals, Bollocks to Brexit.
    Isn't really the same argument now. I'm no fan of SKS but he isn't really an existential threat in the same way.
    So by the same token, anybody who didn't vote for Corbyn is responsible for all this.
    No, I'm not carrying the blame for how other people vote. I could see that both Boris and Corbyn were wrong uns, and I voted accordingly. Everyone else had the same choice.
    I can live with my 2019 vote. If you can't live with yours without resorting to a fiction that there was no other choice, that's your issue to deal with, but it is, objectively, based on a fiction.
    The point is that, if we had STV, you could look at the slate of candidates offered by your local Tories and think, "that Fabricant, he's an idiot" and so leave him off, or at least put him lower down and the other Tories higher up.

    Under our system, you can't do that, and are stuck with whomever the local Tory party sees fit to offer you. How palpable morons like Fabricant or Chope (or Sultana, from the other side) get dropped into these plum safe seats is another story, which I don't really understand. But it does the voter no favours.
    You need to go back a stage. We have a democracy which is fairly well understood. It rests on a few principles.

    Everyone can vote
    Everyone can stand for election
    Everyone can organise as a political party
    Everyone can belong to a party and be involved in its processes.
    First past the post wins.

    What you can't do is criticise outcomes simply because you don't like them. Outcomes like inappropriate candidates in safe seats rest on the voters making them safe seats, and the party which anyone can join putting up a donkey with a red/blue rosette.

    Of course we can criticise outcomes if we don't like them. Especially if they stem from a flawed system long overdue for change.
This discussion has been closed.