A Tory grandee turned to a member of the 2019 intake of MPs, who may play a decisive role in deciding Boris Johnson’s future, to ask their thoughts on PM’s statement. The 2019er told their fellow MP that the PM’s statement was meaningless and it’s over for him https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1481252611093409792
But that’s rubbish, there was so much truth and meaning in the statement, it told us so much.
“I apologise for not going to a party but what looked to me as a work event, that I realised in hindsight was still illegal in the law I created and we were enforcing outside of our own government buildings”
In other countries British hypocrisy is seen as practically a core national characteristic! Although I suppose loathing it perhaps even makes the perception even more true!
I think British, or some would say more specifically English, hypocrisy centres on politeness and manners. Moral hypocrisy is definitely disliked, but often indulged.
Treasury sources say that 'time constraints' are preventing @RishiSunak from doing media interviews today
In one thing HYUFD is correct - Rishi won't want to weld the sword, because of potential backlash. While a stalking horse candidate is not how it works, whoever actually delivers the blow will not be someone who expects to get the crown...
Unless no one major delivers the blow of course. For all we know the 54th letter could be going in at any time. From 54 highly obscure people. We won't know till it has happened though.
Yes, and the letters are anonymous, so no-one except Sir Graham knows when they arrived. Then it’s an immediate and straight vote of confidence, YES/NO.
I wonder if the little noticed removal of the Whip from Anne Marie Morris this morning may have reduced the total by one?
What was Ms Morris’s offence?
Voting to cut VAT on gas & electricity.
Ah okay, voting on an Opposition day motion. Silly thing to be suspended for, the PM might need all the votes he can get by next week.
That VAT cut is a banana skin for the government too, they should have dropped it on Day 1 of leaving the EU, same as they did with tampons.
Brings in too much money though and opens up a follow up question about all the Green Taxes / subsidies that form part of your average home's energy bill.
Labour are terrified of the Tories having the first non-white Prime Minister, even if he is a squillionaire. Then the Tories will have had him and 2 female PMs before Labour have had anyone other than white males.
Sir Roger Gale MP @SirRogerGale ‘Bring a bottle’ to a ‘work event’ is a novel idea! Very thin ice indeed.
No one's buying it...
To be fair it’s got to be a more fun day at work than a “bring your child to work” day. And for some people it’s probably easier to choose which bottle to take to work than which child as you know how many bottles you have and keep them in the same place.
Another reason Boris might survive is of course cui Bono’s from his departure now? We’re still not thru the pandemic. Economic pain looms
This is a really bad time to become leader AND change leader.
I reckon Tories will stay the blade. He limps on. Everyone watches the polls. If anger fades and he’s less than 10% behind Labour in December he probably makes it to the GE. Less than 5%: definitely
Its hypocrisy and when people are personally affected. Expenses scandal, we all paid for it and MPs bought loads of stuff they shouldn't have morally, while everybody else was watching the pennies post 2008 crisis....
Somebody paying for Boris wallpaper, minimal impact. Same as Blair cash for honours didn't torpedo him.
Why party gate is such a killer is everybody was seriously affected by these restrictions.
Sunak may well be too tainted by Cummings, in any post Boris leadership election.
HYUFD as an ardent Pro Jonnsonite is a small subset of the relevant voting groups. Certainly with the MPs, who almost all used him for party gain. By the time it gets to the selectorate, I doubt Cummings will be a major factor in choosing between Sunak vs AN Other
Already Sunak is no longer ahead of Truss amongst party members but neck and neck at most.
Remember it is we Tory members who will get the final say on who our next PM is if Boris is forced out before the next general election, not voters at large and not even Tory MPs (who can only pick the final 2).
As a Tory member I was planning to vote for Sunak until this week as next Tory leader but if Cummings' treachery forces Boris out I now may well vote for whoever is against Sunak in the last 2, even Truss given she has said she now backs our constitutional monarchy.
Having seen a good chunk of PMQs then Boris ought to be toast. His party should be getting rid of him pronto. It probably is a Cummings coup but it doesn't matter. Boris put himself into this position by a serious lack of judgement on several occasions. He was able to ride out storms as Mayor of London but it ought not to be possible as PM.
Be kind, Conservative MPs. Put the fool out of the misery.
Indeed!
Boris has become as pathetic as Brown in his final weeks and months.
To be honest, I think Brown actually had a really good last few weeks and months in office in many ways. It was the financial crisis and in many ways he was in his element as a big, serious figure on the international stage. His authority on that level, certainly, hadn't drained away. World leaders including Obama and Merkel speak very highly of his role at that time, and his leadership on some of the issues.
The elephant in the room was that he was well behind in the polls domestically and having bold plans to reform the international financial system isn't worth many votes - although he'd recovered a little in the final six months.
So I agree Brown was doomed, and had many flaws as PM, but I dispute the view that he was cowering and lacking in all authority as Johnson is.
Congratulations, Sir Norfolk, on succinctly and accurately characterising Brown's tenure as PM.
Sunak may well be too tainted by Cummings, in any post Boris leadership election.
HYUFD as an ardent Pro Jonnsonite is a small subset of the relevant voting groups. Certainly with the MPs, who almost all used him for party gain. By the time it gets to the selectorate, I doubt Cummings will be a major factor in choosing between Sunak vs AN Other
Already Sunak is no longer ahead of Truss amongst party members but neck and neck at most.
Remember it is we Tory members who will get the final say on who our next PM is if Boris is forced out before the next general election, not voters at large and not even Tory MPs (who can only pick the final 2).
As a Tory member I was planning to vote for Sunak until this week as next Tory leader but if Cummings' treachery forces Boris out I now may well vote for whoever is against Sunak in the last 2, even Truss given she has said she now backs our constitutional monarchy.
An interesting dilemma for you would be Sunak vs Hunt.
Sunak may well be too tainted by Cummings, in any post Boris leadership election.
HYUFD as an ardent Pro Jonnsonite is a small subset of the relevant voting groups. Certainly with the MPs, who almost all used him for party gain. By the time it gets to the selectorate, I doubt Cummings will be a major factor in choosing between Sunak vs AN Other
Already Sunak is no longer ahead of Truss amongst party members but neck and neck at most.
Remember it is we Tory members who will get the final say on who our next PM is if Boris is forced out before the next general election, not voters at large and not even Tory MPs (who can only pick the final 2).
As a Tory member I was planning to vote for Sunak until this week as next Tory leader but if Cummings' treachery forces Boris out I now may well vote for whoever is against Sunak in the last 2, even Truss given she has said she now backs our constitutional monarchy.
I reckon you would be well served to go and spend 24 hours doing and thinking about something else than politics.
Having seen a good chunk of PMQs then Boris ought to be toast. His party should be getting rid of him pronto. It probably is a Cummings coup but it doesn't matter. Boris put himself into this position by a serious lack of judgement on several occasions. He was able to ride out storms as Mayor of London but it ought not to be possible as PM.
After the May elections looks like the ideal time to me.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Agree. This is just like the MrEd justification post this morning: It's ok because other people were doing it. Try that in a court of law. If valid you would have to let off every criminal because another criminal had done it before. It is a bizarre argument.
What, MrEd was defending this with some gymnastic false equivalence? Well well well.
Sunak may well be too tainted by Cummings, in any post Boris leadership election.
HYUFD as an ardent Pro Jonnsonite is a small subset of the relevant voting groups. Certainly with the MPs, who almost all used him for party gain. By the time it gets to the selectorate, I doubt Cummings will be a major factor in choosing between Sunak vs AN Other
Already Sunak is no longer ahead of Truss amongst party members but neck and neck at most.
Remember it is we Tory members who will get the final say on who our next PM is if Boris is forced out before the next general election, not voters at large and not even Tory MPs (who can only pick the final 2).
As a Tory member I was planning to vote for Sunak until this week as next Tory leader but if Cummings' treachery forces Boris out I now may well vote for whoever is against Sunak in the last 2, even Truss given she has said she now backs our constitutional monarchy.
An interesting dilemma for you would be Sunak vs Hunt.
I think you’d probably vote Sunak, right?
I would have done, I now might even vote Hunt (he is relatively pro life for example).
If Boris is forced out midterm after leading our party to a landslide just 2 years ago by a Cummings coup to try and install Sunak, I don't think I could forgive Sunak as that would be rewarding Cummings.
As said earlier I would almost prefer to lose to Starmer Labour than reward Cummings for his treachery. Starmer is not Corbyn after all and at least not as much of a shit as Cummings is
So the Tory party as a whole is now in the position of a wife, having discovered yet another infidelity by her husband and being given the "It didn't mean anything to me" excuse, having to decide whether to stay with him for the sake of the children or chuck him out.
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
Another reason Boris might survive is of course cui Bono’s from his departure now? We’re still not thru the pandemic. Economic pain looms
This is a really bad time to become leader AND change leader.
I reckon Tories will stay the blade. He limps on. Everyone watches the polls. If anger fades and he’s less than 10% behind Labour in December he probably makes it to the GE. Less than 5%: definitely
I do wonder if Sir Graham Brady is following up each letter with a "I don't think you wanted to send that today" phone call - just to keep things ticking over...
Sunak may well be too tainted by Cummings, in any post Boris leadership election.
HYUFD as an ardent Pro Jonnsonite is a small subset of the relevant voting groups. Certainly with the MPs, who almost all used him for party gain. By the time it gets to the selectorate, I doubt Cummings will be a major factor in choosing between Sunak vs AN Other
Already Sunak is no longer ahead of Truss amongst party members but neck and neck at most.
Remember it is we Tory members who will get the final say on who our next PM is if Boris is forced out before the next general election, not voters at large and not even Tory MPs (who can only pick the final 2).
As a Tory member I was planning to vote for Sunak until this week as next Tory leader but if Cummings' treachery forces Boris out I now may well vote for whoever is against Sunak in the last 2, even Truss given she has said she now backs our constitutional monarchy.
An interesting dilemma for you would be Sunak vs Hunt.
I think you’d probably vote Sunak, right?
I would have done, I now might even vote Hunt (he is relatively pro life for example).
If Boris is forced out midterm after leading our party to a landslide just 2 years ago by a Cummings coup to try and install Sunak, I don't think I could forgive Sunak as that would be rewarding Cummings.
As said earlier I would almost prefer to lose to Starmer Labour than reward Cummings for his treachery. Starmer is not Corbyn after all and at least not as much of a shit as Cummings is
It's surprising how often people switch from Plaid Cymru to Labour.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
So the Tory party as a whole is now in the position of a wife, having discovered yet another infidelity by her husband and being given the "It didn't mean anything to me" excuse, having to decide whether to stay with him for the sake of the children or chuck him out.
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
That works until the son find Dad/ Boris texting / chatting to his new girlfriend while on the loo
Labour are terrified of the Tories having the first non-white Prime Minister, even if he is a squillionaire. Then the Tories will have had him and 2 female PMs before Labour have had anyone other than white males.
The Guardian was already on the case, with their article where they argued that well off people of Hindu origin aren't really minorities.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Gatherings in private back gardens were also illegal...
Having seen a good chunk of PMQs then Boris ought to be toast. His party should be getting rid of him pronto. It probably is a Cummings coup but it doesn't matter. Boris put himself into this position by a serious lack of judgement on several occasions. He was able to ride out storms as Mayor of London but it ought not to be possible as PM.
After the May elections looks like the ideal time to me.
I disagree. Every extra day that Boris remains in No 10 is another day of public ridicule and memes being forwarded in their millions by normally fairly apolitical people. By May the damage to the brand might be irreparable this side of a general election but possibly far longer.
No one gives a monkeys about local elections. Just get rid now and take on the chin whatever result occurs in May.
So the Tory party as a whole is now in the position of a wife, having discovered yet another infidelity by her husband and being given the "It didn't mean anything to me" excuse, having to decide whether to stay with him for the sake of the children or chuck him out.
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
Technically it was a series of business meetings, not an affair.
Labour are terrified of the Tories having the first non-white Prime Minister, even if he is a squillionaire. Then the Tories will have had him and 2 female PMs before Labour have had anyone other than white males.
The Guardian was already on the case, with their article where they argued that well off people of Hindu origin aren't really minorities.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Gatherings in private back gardens were also illegal...
Because there were restrictions on movements. The regulation is quite clear that gatherings were only illegal in public places.
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
Not sure he has anywhere to go after the divorce cleaned him out. Travelodge?
In other countries British hypocrisy is seen as practically a core national characteristic! Although I suppose loathing it perhaps even makes the perception even more true!
Britons loathe other people's hypocrisy, which as you suggest is a form of hypocrisy. The pm and government having a huge hypocritical vomit in public tends to trump everything else though.
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
Well the procedure is that there always needs to be a PM, and theres no position as a caretaker PM. The procedure for an election could be done 'quick-ish' as it did when T May resigned.
Boris would have to stay on until there's a new PM.
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
Not sure he has anywhere to go after the divorce cleaned him out. Travelodge?
Treasury sources say that 'time constraints' are preventing @RishiSunak from doing media interviews today
In one thing HYUFD is correct - Rishi won't want to weld the sword, because of potential backlash. While a stalking horse candidate is not how it works, whoever actually delivers the blow will not be someone who expects to get the crown...
Unless no one major delivers the blow of course. For all we know the 54th letter could be going in at any time. From 54 highly obscure people. We won't know till it has happened though.
Yes, and the letters are anonymous, so no-one except Sir Graham knows when they arrived. Then it’s an immediate and straight vote of confidence, YES/NO.
I wonder if the little noticed removal of the Whip from Anne Marie Morris this morning may have reduced the total by one?
It also reduces the number of letters needed by one, because of rounding. So it makes no difference.
Labour are terrified of the Tories having the first non-white Prime Minister, even if he is a squillionaire. Then the Tories will have had him and 2 female PMs before Labour have had anyone other than white males.
The Guardian was already on the case, with their article where they argued that well off people of Hindu origin aren't really minorities.
So Sunak is really white.
link?
It was a while back - in response to the rise of Sunak, Patel and Javid. The argument was that since they were well off, voted the wrong way etc that they didn't share the authentic experience of being a minority.
Labour are terrified of the Tories having the first non-white Prime Minister, even if he is a squillionaire. Then the Tories will have had him and 2 female PMs before Labour have had anyone other than white males.
The Guardian was already on the case, with their article where they argued that well off people of Hindu origin aren't really minorities.
So Sunak is really white.
Was he a minority until he got married, and then suddenly became not one?
Labour are terrified of the Tories having the first non-white Prime Minister, even if he is a squillionaire. Then the Tories will have had him and 2 female PMs before Labour have had anyone other than white males.
The Guardian was already on the case, with their article where they argued that well off people of Hindu origin aren't really minorities.
So Sunak is really white.
link?
It was a while back - in response to the rise of Sunak, Patel and Javid.
It is very clear that, for whatever reason, Boris Johnson is not up to the challenge of being our country's prime minister.
And yet he is the best that the Conservatives have to offer us. There is nobody among the serried ranks of Tory MPs who would do a better job. If there were, the responsible Tory MPs would have made the change already for the sake of the country.
The fact that they have not demonstrates only too clearly not just their cowardice, but also that they have nobody with leadership qualities.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Neither is a house. Gatherings weren't allowed in them or other work-places either.
Sunak may well be too tainted by Cummings, in any post Boris leadership election.
HYUFD as an ardent Pro Jonnsonite is a small subset of the relevant voting groups. Certainly with the MPs, who almost all used him for party gain. By the time it gets to the selectorate, I doubt Cummings will be a major factor in choosing between Sunak vs AN Other
Already Sunak is no longer ahead of Truss amongst party members but neck and neck at most.
Remember it is we Tory members who will get the final say on who our next PM is if Boris is forced out before the next general election, not voters at large and not even Tory MPs (who can only pick the final 2).
As a Tory member I was planning to vote for Sunak until this week as next Tory leader but if Cummings' treachery forces Boris out I now may well vote for whoever is against Sunak in the last 2, even Truss given she has said she now backs our constitutional monarchy.
An interesting dilemma for you would be Sunak vs Hunt.
I think you’d probably vote Sunak, right?
I would have done, I now might even vote Hunt (he is relatively pro life for example).
If Boris is forced out midterm after leading our party to a landslide just 2 years ago by a Cummings coup to try and install Sunak, I don't think I could forgive Sunak as that would be rewarding Cummings.
As said earlier I would almost prefer to lose to Starmer Labour than reward Cummings for his treachery. Starmer is not Corbyn after all and at least not as much of a shit as Cummings is
So what you are saying is that if the person who you think is best to lead the party (Boris) is ousted out of spite by someone (Cummings) you will not support the person you have previously said would be your next choice to lead the party (Sunak) out of spite for someone (Cummings). Cool.
Johnson's problem is the stuff about saying he didn't realise it was a party. It's the thing that will be latched onto - it's so ridiculous, and that sort of thing cuts through.
The way his opponents are going on, it’s as if they invited a load of outsiders, caterers and a DJ, and kept going until three in the morning.
Johnson is still lying though. This is the problem.
What did he say that was untrue?
Making out he thought it was an essential work gathering rather than a social.
That’s his thoughts, whether you believe them or not.
Where are the untrue facts that the PM said to Parliament?
I am thinking of all the trans activists rubbishing Dave Chappelle’s special, but none of them providing quotes to back up what exactly was so awful about it.
Isn't the point that he previously told the Commons "there was no party", and now he's been clear that he knew there was, because he was at it? Or does it not count because it was a different party that he denied happening?
I think Boris said there was no party "in Number 10" to parliament.
Sunak may well be too tainted by Cummings, in any post Boris leadership election.
HYUFD as an ardent Pro Jonnsonite is a small subset of the relevant voting groups. Certainly with the MPs, who almost all used him for party gain. By the time it gets to the selectorate, I doubt Cummings will be a major factor in choosing between Sunak vs AN Other
Already Sunak is no longer ahead of Truss amongst party members but neck and neck at most.
Remember it is we Tory members who will get the final say on who our next PM is if Boris is forced out before the next general election, not voters at large and not even Tory MPs (who can only pick the final 2).
As a Tory member I was planning to vote for Sunak until this week as next Tory leader but if Cummings' treachery forces Boris out I now may well vote for whoever is against Sunak in the last 2, even Truss given she has said she now backs our constitutional monarchy.
An interesting dilemma for you would be Sunak vs Hunt.
I think you’d probably vote Sunak, right?
I would have done, I now might even vote Hunt (he is relatively pro life for example).
If Boris is forced out midterm after leading our party to a landslide just 2 years ago by a Cummings coup to try and install Sunak, I don't think I could forgive Sunak as that would be rewarding Cummings.
As said earlier I would almost prefer to lose to Starmer Labour than reward Cummings for his treachery. Starmer is not Corbyn after all and at least not as much of a shit as Cummings is
If the killer blow turns out to be the Cummings goodbye party on Nov 15 in the number 11 flat, I guess that is something he has no more than hearsay on.
Heard an interesting comment this morning, that the spads and civil servants in the building onto whom the blame might fall in the report might be creating a ripple effect of revelation here.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Labour are terrified of the Tories having the first non-white Prime Minister, even if he is a squillionaire. Then the Tories will have had him and 2 female PMs before Labour have had anyone other than white males.
The Guardian was already on the case, with their article where they argued that well off people of Hindu origin aren't really minorities.
So Sunak is really white.
link?
It was a while back - in response to the rise of Sunak, Patel and Javid.
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
Not sure he has anywhere to go after the divorce cleaned him out. Travelodge?
Linton Travel Tavern.
They have a very good Carvery - not five star, but very competitive.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Neither is a house. Gatherings weren't allowed in them or other work-places either.
The regulations don't say that:
Restrictions on gatherings 7. During the emergency period, no person may participate in a gathering in a public place of more than two people except—
Parties in back gardens were restricted by other provisions placing restrictions on movement.
So the Tory party as a whole is now in the position of a wife, having discovered yet another infidelity by her husband and being given the "It didn't mean anything to me" excuse, having to decide whether to stay with him for the sake of the children or chuck him out.
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
I think, to be fair, Boris Johnson's position on this occasion is that he didn't realise he was shagging.
Is HYUFD watching a different PMQs, one from a parallel / mirror universe?
Must be.
Starmer deserves an A+ today
HYUFD a U
Please explain
For once SKS failed to miss an open goal.
At last he called for Boris to resign.
For once he performed well.
One swallow a summer does not make.
I still believe overall he is a factional useless nonentity with no discernable personality or policies and there is no chance I will vote Labour whilst he is in charge.
As always, you have it wrong again. Starmer was anything but ‘Primeministerial, this was one of his worst displays, ineptly acting outrage in a cheesy 3rd rate TV production called The Fall of Boris Johnson. In fact all the opposition responses were very poor. Ed Davey sadly doesn’t have the gravitas of Clegg, Kennedy or Ashdown and the girl power angle he attacked from I wouldn’t have chosen, and I’m a girl. But I’m saving my venom for the Most pompous MP of all - Chris Bryant with his kitsch “shower of shenanigan’s”. Though it did provide a moment of true comedy, as Boris outed Bryant’s Tory past, camera cut to bewildered labour MPs flanking Bryant glance uneasily in his direction and begin to inch away. 😃
Nice one Boris! Congenital wrecking ball to the very end.
So the Tory party as a whole is now in the position of a wife, having discovered yet another infidelity by her husband and being given the "It didn't mean anything to me" excuse, having to decide whether to stay with him for the sake of the children or chuck him out.
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
Technically it was a series of business meetings, not an affair.
Are we back on why Ms Arcuri might have been dating the Mayor?
Johnson's problem is the stuff about saying he didn't realise it was a party. It's the thing that will be latched onto - it's so ridiculous, and that sort of thing cuts through.
The way his opponents are going on, it’s as if they invited a load of outsiders, caterers and a DJ, and kept going until three in the morning.
Johnson is still lying though. This is the problem.
What did he say that was untrue?
Making out he thought it was an essential work gathering rather than a social.
That’s his thoughts, whether you believe them or not.
Where are the untrue facts that the PM said to Parliament?
I am thinking of all the trans activists rubbishing Dave Chappelle’s special, but none of them providing quotes to back up what exactly was so awful about it.
Isn't the point that he previously told the Commons "there was no party", and now he's been clear that he knew there was, because he was at it? Or does it not count because it was a different party that he denied happening?
I think Boris said there was no party "in Number 10" to parliament.
So I reckon he'll get away with it.
I did not have sexual relations with that woman.....definitions of sexual relations vary....as it appears do "work events".
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
Not sure he has anywhere to go after the divorce cleaned him out. Travelodge?
Linton Travel Tavern.
They have a very good Carvery - not five star, but very competitive.
Treasury sources say that 'time constraints' are preventing @RishiSunak from doing media interviews today
In one thing HYUFD is correct - Rishi won't want to weld the sword, because of potential backlash. While a stalking horse candidate is not how it works, whoever actually delivers the blow will not be someone who expects to get the crown...
Unless no one major delivers the blow of course. For all we know the 54th letter could be going in at any time. From 54 highly obscure people. We won't know till it has happened though.
Yes, and the letters are anonymous, so no-one except Sir Graham knows when they arrived. Then it’s an immediate and straight vote of confidence, YES/NO.
I wonder if the little noticed removal of the Whip from Anne Marie Morris this morning may have reduced the total by one?
It also reduces the number of letters needed by one, because of rounding. So it makes no difference.
"I remain strongly committed to Conservative principles and supporting a Conservative government that acts in the best interests of the country." doesn't sound like someone about to join another party, but also not someone likely to get the whip back any time soon. Actually voting for a Labour motion, in the knowledge that she was the only one and it therefore wouldn't change the outcome, is unusual and quite impressive.
Conceptually that is hard to imagine. Perhaps a 1970s-themed keys-in-the-bowl party for swingers in Number 10 with videos of Boris in a purple toga being fellated by Sunak’s wife even as he video calls the Nation to announce lockdown 3 might put him in a tighter spot but
1 if the Tories know this is coming, surely better to admit it now and claim the blow-job as a “work event” and
2 if it’s just more tattle about cheese-and-wine it will be subject to the law of diminishing returns which means
3 Boris might just survive this as the nation’s short sharp Omicron wave of anger fades away
Whether his survival is good or bad for the Tories is a very different question
This is the second ethical issue to hit Johnson in the last week: don't forget the "missing" WhatsApp messages and the wallpaper.
IMHO, the big consequence for this is going to be a return to tactical voting, on a 1997-2005 scale again. This could have quite serious consequences for the conservative party.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
And it was not work. 1. All names invite, so not a continuation of working groups that afternoon 2. "Enjoy the Weather" and relax being the stated aim 3. Trestle tables with party food laid out 4. The PM brought his gf with him
It was illegal. Boris repeatedly lied to the house that he always followed the guidance. Untrue. Boris repeatedly denied there had been any gatherings whether "work event" or not. Untrue. Now having said the party took place and that he was there says please wait for the enquiry as to whether the party he said he went to happened or whether he went to it.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Give it a rest Rob, only you HYFUD and Sandpit, Tory cult members left trying to support the blatant lies.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
And it was not work. 1. All names invite, so not a continuation of working groups that afternoon 2. "Enjoy the Weather" and relax being the stated aim 3. Trestle tables with party food laid out 4. The PM brought his gf with him
It was illegal. Boris repeatedly lied to the house that he always followed the guidance. Untrue. Boris repeatedly denied there had been any gatherings whether "work event" or not. Untrue. Now having said the party took place and that he was there says please wait for the enquiry as to whether the party he said he went to happened or whether he went to it.
Can you point to the exact provision in the regulations to back up your claim that it was illegal? I can't find what one is being breached.
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
Not sure he has anywhere to go after the divorce cleaned him out. Travelodge?
Linton Travel Tavern.
They have a very good Carvery - not five star, but very competitive.
If Boris does get ousted, I think the alternative domestic arrangements, or lack thereof, are actually a strong and serious reason to think he might stay on in the interim, skulking around Downing Street in foul demeanour.
In other countries British hypocrisy is seen as practically a core national characteristic! Although I suppose loathing it perhaps even makes the perception even more true!
Britons loathe other people's hypocrisy, which as you suggest is a form of hypocrisy. The pm and government having a huge hypocritical vomit in public tends to trump everything else though.
The British have, to other western ears, a curiously indirect way of expressing themselves. ('Recollections may vary' being a wonderful example - every singly British person knows what was meant but I don't think it was necessarily understood in the same way abroad - which was perhaps the point). This often leads to charges of hypocrisy, but is in fact just a symptom of what happens when you don't grow up instinctively understanding British layers of meaning.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Give it a rest Rob, only you HYFUD and Sandpit, Tory cult members left trying to support the blatant lies.
No, I don't support this at all. I am only interested in the very narrow point about whether it was illegal or not.
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
The Queen appoints a new PM as soon as the old one exits office. So if Boris flounced there would be a rather unusual constitutional situation in which the palace would have to work out who is the most appropriate person to be appointed.
I suspect that the protocols are already in place for such a procedure to be carried out (because, if anything else, if a PM died in office the same situation would arise). I guess the palace would take soundings from the cabinet and senior Tory MPs and get agreement on who to appoint. In this scenario it would be hard to rebut the presumption that first Secretary of State/Deputy PM should get it. Which is this case, would land us with PM Raab, at least until a leadership election (oh goody).
Treasury sources say that 'time constraints' are preventing @RishiSunak from doing media interviews today
In one thing HYUFD is correct - Rishi won't want to weld the sword, because of potential backlash. While a stalking horse candidate is not how it works, whoever actually delivers the blow will not be someone who expects to get the crown...
Unless no one major delivers the blow of course. For all we know the 54th letter could be going in at any time. From 54 highly obscure people. We won't know till it has happened though.
Yes, and the letters are anonymous, so no-one except Sir Graham knows when they arrived. Then it’s an immediate and straight vote of confidence, YES/NO.
I wonder if the little noticed removal of the Whip from Anne Marie Morris this morning may have reduced the total by one?
It also reduces the number of letters needed by one, because of rounding. So it makes no difference.
"I remain strongly committed to Conservative principles and supporting a Conservative government that acts in the best interests of the country." doesn't sound like someone about to join another party, but also not someone likely to get the whip back any time soon. Actually voting for a Labour motion, in the knowledge that she was the only one and it therefore wouldn't change the outcome, is unusual and quite impressive.
It's funny how those who found loyalty so difficult in the past - Corbyn, Johnson, etc - seem to be the ones who demand it most.
Removing the whip for supporting a Labour amendment seems a colossal overreaction.
So the Tory party as a whole is now in the position of a wife, having discovered yet another infidelity by her husband and being given the "It didn't mean anything to me" excuse, having to decide whether to stay with him for the sake of the children or chuck him out.
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
Technically it was a series of business meetings, not an affair.
Are we back on why Ms Arcuri might have been dating the Mayor?
She's got a net worth of about -£1.5 million in UK assets, so I can't see O'Neill getting much from her through the London courts.
So the Tory party as a whole is now in the position of a wife, having discovered yet another infidelity by her husband and being given the "It didn't mean anything to me" excuse, having to decide whether to stay with him for the sake of the children or chuck him out.
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
Too kind to the Tory Party.
She married him for his money and so the question (?) she'll be asking herself is will she still get most of it if she gives him the boot.
Money = electoral appeal here in this revised analogy.
It is very clear that, for whatever reason, Boris Johnson is not up to the challenge of being our country's prime minister.
And yet he is the best that the Conservatives have to offer us. There is nobody among the serried ranks of Tory MPs who would do a better job. If there were, the responsible Tory MPs would have made the change already for the sake of the country.
The fact that they have not demonstrates only too clearly not just their cowardice, but also that they have nobody with leadership qualities.
I refuse to believe Boris is the best the Tories can offer. I may have concerns about many of the contenders, but even if their premiership was a mess I seriously refuse to believe that each of them would do a worse job than he is doing at present.
Johnson's problem is the stuff about saying he didn't realise it was a party. It's the thing that will be latched onto - it's so ridiculous, and that sort of thing cuts through.
The way his opponents are going on, it’s as if they invited a load of outsiders, caterers and a DJ, and kept going until three in the morning.
Johnson is still lying though. This is the problem.
What did he say that was untrue?
Making out he thought it was an essential work gathering rather than a social.
That’s his thoughts, whether you believe them or not.
Where are the untrue facts that the PM said to Parliament?
I am thinking of all the trans activists rubbishing Dave Chappelle’s special, but none of them providing quotes to back up what exactly was so awful about it.
Isn't the point that he previously told the Commons "there was no party", and now he's been clear that he knew there was, because he was at it? Or does it not count because it was a different party that he denied happening?
I think Boris said there was no party "in Number 10" to parliament.
So I reckon he'll get away with it.
Just watched it again; he says:
"...I have been repeatedly assured since these allegation emerged that there was no party and that no Covid rules were broken..."
No mention of "in Number 10".
"No party" seems pretty unequivocal to me, and he's effectively admitted today that he knew there was "a" party, even if it wasn't the specific party he previously denied took place.
Treasury sources say that 'time constraints' are preventing @RishiSunak from doing media interviews today
In one thing HYUFD is correct - Rishi won't want to weld the sword, because of potential backlash. While a stalking horse candidate is not how it works, whoever actually delivers the blow will not be someone who expects to get the crown...
Unless no one major delivers the blow of course. For all we know the 54th letter could be going in at any time. From 54 highly obscure people. We won't know till it has happened though.
Yes, and the letters are anonymous, so no-one except Sir Graham knows when they arrived. Then it’s an immediate and straight vote of confidence, YES/NO.
I wonder if the little noticed removal of the Whip from Anne Marie Morris this morning may have reduced the total by one?
It also reduces the number of letters needed by one, because of rounding. So it makes no difference.
"I remain strongly committed to Conservative principles and supporting a Conservative government that acts in the best interests of the country." doesn't sound like someone about to join another party, but also not someone likely to get the whip back any time soon. Actually voting for a Labour motion, in the knowledge that she was the only one and it therefore wouldn't change the outcome, is unusual and quite impressive.
She lost the whip previously for using racist language, so would Labour be wise to have her even if she did want to defect?
In other countries British hypocrisy is seen as practically a core national characteristic! Although I suppose loathing it perhaps even makes the perception even more true!
Britons loathe other people's hypocrisy, which as you suggest is a form of hypocrisy. The pm and government having a huge hypocritical vomit in public tends to trump everything else though.
The British have, to other western ears, a curiously indirect way of expressing themselves. ('Recollections may vary' being a wonderful example - every singly British person knows what was meant but I don't think it was necessarily understood in the same way abroad - which was perhaps the point). This often leads to charges of hypocrisy, but is in fact just a symptom of what happens when you don't grow up instinctively understanding British layers of meaning.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Gatherings in public and private places were illegal. I couldn’t have a garden party at my house on 20 May 2020, neither could the PM. I couldn’t have post work drinks on the terrace of my office, similarly the PM couldn’t have post work drinks in the garden of his office. At the time you could meet one person from outside your household outside for exercise only.
This “work event” thing is absolute rubbish. Even if such things were legal who sends a BYOB invite to a work do?
Having seen a good chunk of PMQs then Boris ought to be toast. His party should be getting rid of him pronto. It probably is a Cummings coup but it doesn't matter. Boris put himself into this position by a serious lack of judgement on several occasions. He was able to ride out storms as Mayor of London but it ought not to be possible as PM.
After the May elections looks like the ideal time to me.
I disagree. Every extra day that Boris remains in No 10 is another day of public ridicule and memes being forwarded in their millions by normally fairly apolitical people. By May the damage to the brand might be irreparable this side of a general election but possibly far longer.
No one gives a monkeys about local elections. Just get rid now and take on the chin whatever result occurs in May.
That argument works both ways. If the May elections look like being bad either way, there's plenty of incentive for Tory MPs to ensure that Johnson's reputation as an election-winner goes down the pan to prevent all sorts of ex post facto arguments from Johnson supporters about how this wouldn't have happened if you'd been loyal to him.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Give it a rest Rob, only you HYFUD and Sandpit, Tory cult members left trying to support the blatant lies.
No, let them carry on. If they don’t realise Boris is trashing the place before the next people move in, leave them to it. If they can’t see how any good work done by the party, such as on vaccines, is getting trashed by Boris here, and that positive legacy lost, more fool them 🙂
The strongest incentive for the 1922 to stay the knife is that nobody in their right mind would want to take the job right now. Sunak et al should force Bozza to limp on until after the likely May elections disaster, then kick him out before the summer recess.
If they have any sense, that is exactly how they'll play it.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Gatherings in public and private places were illegal. I couldn’t have a garden party at my house on 20 May 2020, neither could the PM. I couldn’t have post work drinks on the terrace of my office, similarly the PM couldn’t have post work drinks in the garden of his office. At the time you could meet one person from outside your household outside for exercise only.
This “work event” thing is absolute rubbish. Even if such things were legal who sends a BYOB invite to a work do?
I've pasted the text of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 earlier in this thread. There were only restrictions on gatherings in public places. No restrictions on private gatherings, those were covered by restrictions on movement.
If Johnson were to resign who becomes PM? It would be the first real test of the modern ways that parties select leaders (May and Cameron having stayed in post to await their successor). Can’t see Johnson doing that. Which is why when push comes to shove we might ultimately see a coronation.
The Queen appoints a new PM as soon as the old one exits office. So if Boris flounced there would be a rather unusual constitutional situation in which the palace would have to work out who is the most appropriate person to be appointed.
I suspect that the protocols are already in place for such a procedure to be carried out (because, if anything else, if a PM died in office the same situation would arise). I guess the palace would take soundings from the cabinet and senior Tory MPs and get agreement on who to appoint. In this scenario it would be hard to rebut the presumption that first Secretary of State/Deputy PM should get it. Which is this case, would land us with PM Raab, at least until a leadership election (oh goody).
Raab didn’t look like he was much enjoying himself when he had to step up in Spring 2020. Wouldn’t blame him for telling them to do one.
The CEO of Pfizer, Albert Bourla, has said that a vaccine for the highly transmissible Omicron variant of Covid-19 will be ready in March and that the pharmaceutical company has begun manufacturing the doses.
Deaths continue to trend up (+13% this week) and are on course to increase this week too (by another 10-15%) Admissions were down 5% this week and possibly similar this week.
Omicron is not rapidly receding in SA despite what Gauteng initially suggested.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
That would suggest that Tesco could organise a party in one of their car parks, as neither the traveling to the shop or the party in the private place would be prohibited.
@SamCoatesSky Tory MP Simon Hoare tells Sky News that his understanding was the No10 party in question was a “thank you” for Dominic Raab for deputising while the PM was ill and a “welcome back” to Boris Johnson.
Treasury sources say that 'time constraints' are preventing @RishiSunak from doing media interviews today
In one thing HYUFD is correct - Rishi won't want to weld the sword, because of potential backlash. While a stalking horse candidate is not how it works, whoever actually delivers the blow will not be someone who expects to get the crown...
Unless no one major delivers the blow of course. For all we know the 54th letter could be going in at any time. From 54 highly obscure people. We won't know till it has happened though.
Yes, and the letters are anonymous, so no-one except Sir Graham knows when they arrived. Then it’s an immediate and straight vote of confidence, YES/NO.
I wonder if the little noticed removal of the Whip from Anne Marie Morris this morning may have reduced the total by one?
It also reduces the number of letters needed by one, because of rounding. So it makes no difference.
"I remain strongly committed to Conservative principles and supporting a Conservative government that acts in the best interests of the country." doesn't sound like someone about to join another party, but also not someone likely to get the whip back any time soon. Actually voting for a Labour motion, in the knowledge that she was the only one and it therefore wouldn't change the outcome, is unusual and quite impressive.
It's funny how those who found loyalty so difficult in the past - Corbyn, Johnson, etc - seem to be the ones who demand it most.
Removing the whip for supporting a Labour amendment seems a colossal overreaction.
Indeed it does, especially as several Tories have openly expressed that they support the Labour VAT policy. A hysterical move from Boris.
Having seen a good chunk of PMQs then Boris ought to be toast. His party should be getting rid of him pronto. It probably is a Cummings coup but it doesn't matter. Boris put himself into this position by a serious lack of judgement on several occasions. He was able to ride out storms as Mayor of London but it ought not to be possible as PM.
After the May elections looks like the ideal time to me.
I disagree. Every extra day that Boris remains in No 10 is another day of public ridicule and memes being forwarded in their millions by normally fairly apolitical people. By May the damage to the brand might be irreparable this side of a general election but possibly far longer.
No one gives a monkeys about local elections. Just get rid now and take on the chin whatever result occurs in May.
That argument works both ways. If the May elections look like being bad either way, there's plenty of incentive for Tory MPs to ensure that Johnson's reputation as an election-winner goes down the pan to prevent all sorts of ex post facto arguments from Johnson supporters about how this wouldn't have happened if you'd been loyal to him.
Other than from our own pb Johnson cheerleader, I don’t think there’s going to be much of a continuity-Boris movement.
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Gatherings in public and private places were illegal. I couldn’t have a garden party at my house on 20 May 2020, neither could the PM. I couldn’t have post work drinks on the terrace of my office, similarly the PM couldn’t have post work drinks in the garden of his office. At the time you could meet one person from outside your household outside for exercise only.
This “work event” thing is absolute rubbish. Even if such things were legal who sends a BYOB invite to a work do?
A company whose boss is a skinflint and doesn't / won't pay for the drinks from their own pocket and doesn't have authority to get the company to pay?
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Agree. This is just like the MrEd justification post this morning: It's ok because other people were doing it. Try that in a court of law. If valid you would have to let off every criminal because another criminal had done it before. It is a bizarre argument.
What, MrEd was defending this with some gymnastic false equivalence? Well well well.
Haha, Kinablu, almost an egregious an accusation as accusing you of having double standards depending on which political stance you favour
PS @kjh - think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't defending BJ, it was saying he should use it as a tactic. He's in the sh1t anyway so he might as well throw a dead cat on the table by saying he wouldn't be lectured by people who supported Blair and his lying to Parliament
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Gatherings in public and private places were illegal. I couldn’t have a garden party at my house on 20 May 2020, neither could the PM. I couldn’t have post work drinks on the terrace of my office, similarly the PM couldn’t have post work drinks in the garden of his office. At the time you could meet one person from outside your household outside for exercise only.
This “work event” thing is absolute rubbish. Even if such things were legal who sends a BYOB invite to a work do?
I've pasted the text of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 earlier in this thread. There were only restrictions on gatherings in public places. No restrictions on private gatherings, those were covered by restrictions on movement.
Your (and Johnson's) defence on the basis of nuanced language is ludicrous.
The wider point is that the hardworking locked down British public think the defence is an absolute crock.
@SamCoatesSky Tory MP Simon Hoare tells Sky News that his understanding was the No10 party in question was a “thank you” for Dominic Raab for deputising while the PM was ill and a “welcome back” to Boris Johnson.
That makes it worse.....not even arguing it was for the staff who have been slogging their guts out. And the staff had to being their own booze to as well.
I presume that means Raab was there as well. Wonder if any other politicians were there?
Cummings is trying to do serious damage to the Tory Party and if he wants a Tory civil war he will get one
You and your tank v the conservative mps whose jobs are facing extinction
They aren't, the last polls had Labour just 3-5% ahead before this attempted Cummings coup.
Even after most Tory voters want Boris to stay according to the polls last night. In any case the next general election is over 2 years away
You keep saying "attempted Cummings coup" as if you've come up with a clever new line.
But did Cummings force Johnson to hold those parties? Did he force him to lie repeatedly as it emerged?
No doubt Cummings is loving all this, but your desperate desire to see Johnson as the poor victim, so you can kiss it better, is ludicrous. He has brought ALL of this on himself.
There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
This is a Cummings attempted coup, no more no less
Lets pull this apart: There was no party, merely some after work thankyou drinks
You are clear this was not a work event - this was "after work". So that's you saying the PM is wrong to say it was a work event.
The email went to 100 people - so this was not "after work" in that the 100 people were all not working together on the same thing. A "please join us" round robin is by definition being sent to people not part of whatever work was being done immediately before it.
"thankyou drinks" - or as the email put it "socially distanced drinks in the No10 garden" was illegal. A minister restated that such things were illegal a few hours before on TV
Boris briefly attended in a month beaches like Durdle Door were packed.
You confirm his illegal attendance at an illegal event - thanks
"beaches were packed". Mmmm, and the police were out moving people on and issuing fines for the people most flagrantly breaching the law. Sending out an invite to 100 people for an illegal event is more flagrant than many of the people prosecuted.
I do appreciate the mental gymnastics you are doing to keep defending this. But when it fails, when he is dragged out of Downing Street he will be gone but the way that you have debased yourself here will remain.
Lets pull this apart: The police weren't doing much of a job about enforcing it
So you accept that the police were enforcing it
So you accept there was an "it" to enforce
So you accept the party was illegal
No wonder you refused to answer the "hypothetical" about whether if the PM breaks the law that he should resign.
Because he broke the law. As you now freely admit.
What law did they break? The regulations covering gatherings only relates to public places, and they would have had an exemption on the restrictions of movement because of their job.
Gatherings were illegal except for work. If this was a party it was not work.
Gatherings in public places were illegal, but the No 10 garden isn't a public place.
Gatherings in public and private places were illegal. I couldn’t have a garden party at my house on 20 May 2020, neither could the PM. I couldn’t have post work drinks on the terrace of my office, similarly the PM couldn’t have post work drinks in the garden of his office. At the time you could meet one person from outside your household outside for exercise only.
This “work event” thing is absolute rubbish. Even if such things were legal who sends a BYOB invite to a work do?
I've pasted the text of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 earlier in this thread. There were only restrictions on gatherings in public places. No restrictions on private gatherings, those were covered by restrictions on movement.
Your (and Johnson's) defence on the basis of nuanced language is ludicrous.
The wider point is that the hardworking locked down British public think the defence is an absolute crock.
I've already said I'm not trying to defend this. I am interested in the narrow point of whether it was illegal or not. Some have claimed it is, but I can't see the provision which has been breached. This is completely separate discussion from whether it was right or wrong.
@SamCoatesSky Tory MP Simon Hoare tells Sky News that his understanding was the No10 party in question was a “thank you” for Dominic Raab for deputising while the PM was ill and a “welcome back” to Boris Johnson.
So the Tory party as a whole is now in the position of a wife, having discovered yet another infidelity by her husband and being given the "It didn't mean anything to me" excuse, having to decide whether to stay with him for the sake of the children or chuck him out.
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
Too kind to the Tory Party.
She married him for his money and so the question (?) she'll be asking herself is will she still get most of it if she gives him the boot.
Money = electoral appeal here in this revised analogy.
Comments
“I apologise for not going to a party but what looked to me as a work event, that I realised in hindsight was still illegal in the law I created and we were enforcing outside of our own government buildings”
Not before time.
This is a really bad time to become leader AND change leader.
I reckon Tories will stay the blade. He limps on. Everyone watches the polls. If anger fades and he’s less than 10% behind Labour in December he probably makes it to the GE. Less than 5%: definitely
Somebody paying for Boris wallpaper, minimal impact. Same as Blair cash for honours didn't torpedo him.
Why party gate is such a killer is everybody was seriously affected by these restrictions.
Remember it is we Tory members who will get the final say on who our next PM is if Boris is forced out before the next general election, not voters at large and not even Tory MPs (who can only pick the final 2).
As a Tory member I was planning to vote for Sunak until this week as next Tory leader but if Cummings' treachery forces Boris out I now may well vote for whoever is against Sunak in the last 2, even Truss given she has said she now backs our constitutional monarchy.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-garden-lockdown-rules-south-yorkshire-police-rotherham-a9459146.html
I think you’d probably vote Sunak, right?
If Boris is forced out midterm after leading our party to a landslide just 2 years ago by a Cummings coup to try and install Sunak, I don't think I could forgive Sunak as that would be rewarding Cummings.
As said earlier I would almost prefer to lose to Starmer Labour than reward Cummings for his treachery. Starmer is not Corbyn after all and at least not as much of a shit as Cummings is
The PM is thinking: "Well, 3 wives were fine with this. Why wouldn't you be."
https://twitter.com/thhamilton/status/1481240494868942850?s=21
I assume he is holding out the prospect he could resign on the publication of the report
So Sunak is really white.
No one gives a monkeys about local elections. Just get rid now and take on the chin whatever result occurs in May.
Boris would have to stay on until there's a new PM.
And yet he is the best that the Conservatives have to offer us. There is nobody among the serried ranks of Tory MPs who would do a better job. If there were, the responsible Tory MPs would have made the change already for the sake of the country.
The fact that they have not demonstrates only too clearly not just their cowardice, but also that they have nobody with leadership qualities.
Do we think there's any chance of that now? Anne-Marie Morris to the LibDems, perhaps?
So I reckon he'll get away with it.
Heard an interesting comment this morning, that the spads and civil servants in the building onto whom the blame might fall in the report might be creating a ripple effect of revelation here.
Restrictions on gatherings
7. During the emergency period, no person may participate in a gathering in a public place of more than two people except—
Parties in back gardens were restricted by other provisions placing restrictions on movement.
Nice one Boris! Congenital wrecking ball to the very end.
"I remain strongly committed to Conservative principles and supporting a Conservative government that acts in the best interests of the country." doesn't sound like someone about to join another party, but also not someone likely to get the whip back any time soon. Actually voting for a Labour motion, in the knowledge that she was the only one and it therefore wouldn't change the outcome, is unusual and quite impressive.
IMHO, the big consequence for this is going to be a return to tactical voting, on a 1997-2005 scale again. This could have quite serious consequences for the conservative party.
1. All names invite, so not a continuation of working groups that afternoon
2. "Enjoy the Weather" and relax being the stated aim
3. Trestle tables with party food laid out
4. The PM brought his gf with him
It was illegal. Boris repeatedly lied to the house that he always followed the guidance. Untrue. Boris repeatedly denied there had been any gatherings whether "work event" or not. Untrue. Now having said the party took place and that he was there says please wait for the enquiry as to whether the party he said he went to happened or whether he went to it.
"If you have to have an inquiry to find out if there was a party in your house, you probably should not have access to nuclear weapons"
I suspect that the protocols are already in place for such a procedure to be carried out (because, if anything else, if a PM died in office the same situation would arise). I guess the palace would take soundings from the cabinet and senior Tory MPs and get agreement on who to appoint. In this scenario it would be hard to rebut the presumption that first Secretary of State/Deputy PM should get it. Which is this case, would land us with PM Raab, at least until a leadership election (oh goody).
Removing the whip for supporting a Labour amendment seems a colossal overreaction.
She married him for his money and so the question (?) she'll be asking herself is will she still get most of it if she gives him the boot.
Money = electoral appeal here in this revised analogy.
"...I have been repeatedly assured since these allegation emerged that there was no party and that no Covid rules were broken..."
No mention of "in Number 10".
"No party" seems pretty unequivocal to me, and he's effectively admitted today that he knew there was "a" party, even if it wasn't the specific party he previously denied took place.
This “work event” thing is absolute rubbish. Even if such things were legal who sends a BYOB invite to a work do?
Cases have quintupled in ten days: from 37,000 to 194,000
India might give us the highest ever single caseload in this wave. 3m? 6m?
Let's hope that it is as short, sharp and relatively harmless for them as it was for SA. They do have lots of prior immunity
If they have any sense, that is exactly how they'll play it.
The CEO of Pfizer, Albert Bourla, has said that a vaccine for the highly transmissible Omicron variant of Covid-19 will be ready in March and that the pharmaceutical company has begun manufacturing the doses.
Deaths continue to trend up (+13% this week) and are on course to increase this week too (by another 10-15%)
Admissions were down 5% this week and possibly similar this week.
Omicron is not rapidly receding in SA despite what Gauteng initially suggested.
Tory MP Simon Hoare tells Sky News that his understanding was the No10 party in question was a “thank you” for Dominic Raab for deputising while the PM was ill and a “welcome back” to Boris Johnson.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1481261954773786629
PS @kjh - think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't defending BJ, it was saying he should use it as a tactic. He's in the sh1t anyway so he might as well throw a dead cat on the table by saying he wouldn't be lectured by people who supported Blair and his lying to Parliament
The wider point is that the hardworking locked down British public think the defence is an absolute crock.
I presume that means Raab was there as well. Wonder if any other politicians were there?