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Could Reform’s Tice surprise us on Thursday? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MaxPB said:

    The other thing I'm relieved about from today's announcement is that it's very clear that the government intends to continue relying solely on the vaccine and acquired immunity to take the full weight of COVID in this country. One of my friends last night said that they thought this was the case and that current thinking is that NPIs have had their day. I wouldn't be surprised if the mask stuff is rolled back in two or three weeks if we do get another 15m boosters done in that time and over 90% of 50+ people done.

    If we can get enough jabs into enough arms, and assuming that the the triple-jabbed are indeed well protected against Omicron (which is expected, but not yet known, to be the case), then yes.
  • Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    She completely misjudged the tone and just went on a rant

    Jon Ashworth would have responded in a more constructive way
  • Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    Did you hear her?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,478

    Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    In fairness, it was quite the opposite – lots of shrill panic-mongering from the usual suspects.
    As I recall you were quite cool with it. And @Leon who went all, back to his bunker in Penarth mode, calmed down on the SA GP's news.
    Eh? Did you read Leon's posts last night? It's endless panicking from him.

    As for the GP, I have no problem with her comments being reported. I don't read much into them – they shouldn't be overanalysed – but I don't see why the networks shouldn't carry them at all.
    Yes he went from Neil in the Young Ones to blind panic and back again, then @Leon saw the GP's report and calm descended.
    No, he was slagging off the GP's report... I think you are mixing him up with someone else?
    Impossible!

    There is only one @Leon ...actually... come to think of it... @LadyG ... @eadric ...

    I'm sure it was @Leon
  • On flags: On my little street, the places most likely to fly an American flag on the 4th of July are homes occupied by immigrants, judging from their appearances. That doesn't surprise me; legal immigrants are often especially patriotic, perhaps because they have seen alternatives.

    The Microsoft headquarters, a few miles away, has the standard combination of an American flag and, below it, a Washington state flag.

    The local Google operation, a few blocks away, has neither flag, but, at the entrance, a "diversity" symbol, with vertical stripes of different colors.

    (Oh, and Microsoft provided a place and friendly volunteers for my first two Pfizer shots. As far as I know, Google has done nothing to help here in the fight against COVID.)

  • Those countries who has struggled to get even two doses into people, Twinky-Winky says Uh Oh...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,478

    Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    Did you hear her?
    No, but my question was a general one.
  • 44.9K cases last week -> 42.6K this week.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800

    Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    In fairness, it was quite the opposite – lots of shrill panic-mongering from the usual suspects.
    As I recall you were quite cool with it. And @Leon who went all, back to his bunker in Penarth mode, calmed down on the SA GP's news.
    Eh? Did you read Leon's posts last night? It's endless panicking from him.

    As for the GP, I have no problem with her comments being reported. I don't read much into them – they shouldn't be overanalysed – but I don't see why the networks shouldn't carry them at all.
    "The fit, normally healthy young men who walked into my surgery didn't exhibit severe symptoms"

    Very insightful.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021

    Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    She completely misjudged the tone and just went on a rant

    Jon Ashworth would have responded in a more constructive way
    There are some many obvious questions to raise, as we have been doing here about the rate required, what about the staffing needed, are those locations that closed going to need to reopen, can those who have already booked for 6 months change and should they try and change, etc etc etc.
  • Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    In fairness, it was quite the opposite – lots of shrill panic-mongering from the usual suspects.
    As I recall you were quite cool with it. And @Leon who went all, back to his bunker in Penarth mode, calmed down on the SA GP's news.
    Eh? Did you read Leon's posts last night? It's endless panicking from him.

    As for the GP, I have no problem with her comments being reported. I don't read much into them – they shouldn't be overanalysed – but I don't see why the networks shouldn't carry them at all.
    Yes he went from Neil in the Young Ones to blind panic and back again, then @Leon saw the GP's report and calm descended.
    No, he was slagging off the GP's report... I think you are mixing him up with someone else?
    Impossible!

    There is only one @Leon ...actually... come to think of it... @LadyG ... @eadric ...

    I'm sure it was @Leon
    "Bit harsh. Zerohedge normally doesn't fall for such blatantly bogus nonsense as this South African GP story, which has already been debunked 3 thousand times

    Covid makes fools of everyone. Covid Rule 3?"

    Leon, just after 9pm yesterday.
  • 42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,790

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Good news for fans of Thornberry's return, Dan Hodges agrees with you -

    @DPJHodges
    16m
    I actually think Emily Thornberry to Shadow Home Affairs is a good move. Whatever White Van baggage she might carry, she's a scrapper. And Labour need that in that brief.


    The flags story was trivial bollocks. Who in their right mind would want to live next to that effing state of a house?

    Still, it was a great gift on PB as I had hours of fun asking the usual pearl-clutching PB Tories whether they, or their wife, would be comfortable if their next-door neighbour decked the front of their house in England flags. Much twisting and pin-head dancing ensued.
    I'd quite happily live next to that house.

    Absolutely no qualms with my neighbours flying flags. On my street I've got multiple neighbours who routinely fly flags, including one permanently flying a Unite flag. I've got many more who fly them during England tournaments and I've done so myself. Doesn't bother me at all, live and let live.

    Anyone bothered by that needs to get their head out of their arse. Do you whinge about neighbours putting Christmas or Halloween decorations out too? Miserable gits.
    Bully for you. The guy who decked his house in England flags did so in November 2014 – nothing to do with a major football tournament. It looked a right state and most people would be unhappy to have to live next to it.
    Why?

    We've got a neighbour who moans about other people's houses. She's full of shit in my opinion and so is anyone (I doubt its "most people") who get upset about other people's homes.

    However people want to decorate their own home is up to them. Variety is the spice of life.

    Curtain twitching busybodies need to get a life.
    Bully for you if you (and your wife!) have such accommodating attitudes. I can tell you that they aren't widely shared. Most people don't want their streets to look a right state. But, each to their own.
    As I said, there's multiple people who regularly fly flags on my street and nobody kicks off a stink about it.

    "Each to their own" is the polar opposite of being a curtain twitching busybody whinging about other people's homes.
    You lost your big St George in mysterious circumstances as I recall.
    Nothing mysterious - my wife isn't keen and happy wife, happy life.

    If it was a neighbour not being keen, I wouldn't care less.
    Suppose it was a neighbour who objected to a huge 20ft square Pirate Flag that you had decided to drape over your house and he came to ask if you would mind taking it down as it was upsetting his young children.

    Couldn't care less?
    I'd politely tell them to mind their own business.
    Great neighbour.
    Absolutely, being polite to a curtain twitcher is more than they deserve, but manners maketh man.
    And as for my next question - if your children were being upset by something in your neighbour's house. Just suck it up because it's none of your business?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,478

    Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    In fairness, it was quite the opposite – lots of shrill panic-mongering from the usual suspects.
    As I recall you were quite cool with it. And @Leon who went all, back to his bunker in Penarth mode, calmed down on the SA GP's news.
    Eh? Did you read Leon's posts last night? It's endless panicking from him.

    As for the GP, I have no problem with her comments being reported. I don't read much into them – they shouldn't be overanalysed – but I don't see why the networks shouldn't carry them at all.
    Yes he went from Neil in the Young Ones to blind panic and back again, then @Leon saw the GP's report and calm descended.
    No, he was slagging off the GP's report... I think you are mixing him up with someone else?
    Impossible!

    There is only one @Leon ...actually... come to think of it... @LadyG ... @eadric ...

    I'm sure it was @Leon
    "Bit harsh. Zerohedge normally doesn't fall for such blatantly bogus nonsense as this South African GP story, which has already been debunked 3 thousand times

    Covid makes fools of everyone. Covid Rule 3?"

    Leon, just after 9pm yesterday.
    Covid Rule 3 applies to me. I stand corrected.

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,327

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    Of course that + number on the cases is 7 days on 7 days. Today's data, same as previous 2 days, is down on prior week. Case growth already lower than testing growth and should flip back green tomorrow or the day after.
  • Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    Did you hear her?
    No, but my question was a general one.
    I suggest you do, before criticising others, or mis-ascribing views to them.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/1826e88c-22d7-4df2-a5a7-03f3c09ac536

    15.44.53
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Good news for fans of Thornberry's return, Dan Hodges agrees with you -

    @DPJHodges
    16m
    I actually think Emily Thornberry to Shadow Home Affairs is a good move. Whatever White Van baggage she might carry, she's a scrapper. And Labour need that in that brief.


    The flags story was trivial bollocks. Who in their right mind would want to live next to that effing state of a house?

    Still, it was a great gift on PB as I had hours of fun asking the usual pearl-clutching PB Tories whether they, or their wife, would be comfortable if their next-door neighbour decked the front of their house in England flags. Much twisting and pin-head dancing ensued.
    I'd quite happily live next to that house.

    Absolutely no qualms with my neighbours flying flags. On my street I've got multiple neighbours who routinely fly flags, including one permanently flying a Unite flag. I've got many more who fly them during England tournaments and I've done so myself. Doesn't bother me at all, live and let live.

    Anyone bothered by that needs to get their head out of their arse. Do you whinge about neighbours putting Christmas or Halloween decorations out too? Miserable gits.
    Bully for you. The guy who decked his house in England flags did so in November 2014 – nothing to do with a major football tournament. It looked a right state and most people would be unhappy to have to live next to it.
    Why?

    We've got a neighbour who moans about other people's houses. She's full of shit in my opinion and so is anyone (I doubt its "most people") who get upset about other people's homes.

    However people want to decorate their own home is up to them. Variety is the spice of life.

    Curtain twitching busybodies need to get a life.
    Bully for you if you (and your wife!) have such accommodating attitudes. I can tell you that they aren't widely shared. Most people don't want their streets to look a right state. But, each to their own.
    As I said, there's multiple people who regularly fly flags on my street and nobody kicks off a stink about it.

    "Each to their own" is the polar opposite of being a curtain twitching busybody whinging about other people's homes.
    You lost your big St George in mysterious circumstances as I recall.
    Nothing mysterious - my wife isn't keen and happy wife, happy life.

    If it was a neighbour not being keen, I wouldn't care less.
    Suppose it was a neighbour who objected to a huge 20ft square Pirate Flag that you had decided to drape over your house and he came to ask if you would mind taking it down as it was upsetting his young children.

    Couldn't care less?
    I'd politely tell them to mind their own business.
    Great neighbour.
    Absolutely, being polite to a curtain twitcher is more than they deserve, but manners maketh man.
    And as for my next question - if your children were being upset by something in your neighbour's house. Just suck it up because it's none of your business?
    If my children were upset by something in my neighbours house then I'd comfort them and teach them that there's nothing to be afraid of.

    I'd parent my kids, not my neighbours.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    UK cases by specimen data

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446

    Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    In fairness, it was quite the opposite – lots of shrill panic-mongering from the usual suspects.
    As I recall you were quite cool with it. And @Leon who went all, back to his bunker in Penarth mode, calmed down on the SA GP's news.
    Eh? Did you read Leon's posts last night? It's endless panicking from him.

    As for the GP, I have no problem with her comments being reported. I don't read much into them – they shouldn't be overanalysed – but I don't see why the networks shouldn't carry them at all.
    "The fit, normally healthy young men who walked into my surgery didn't exhibit severe symptoms"

    Very insightful.
    Except that she explicitly addressed that point

    "Dr Coetzee, who was briefing other African medical associations on Saturday, made clear her patients were all healthy and she was worried the new variant could still hit older people – with co-morbidities such as diabetes or heart disease – much harder.

    “What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    UK Local R

    image
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212

    MaxPB said:

    The other thing I'm relieved about from today's announcement is that it's very clear that the government intends to continue relying solely on the vaccine and acquired immunity to take the full weight of COVID in this country. One of my friends last night said that they thought this was the case and that current thinking is that NPIs have had their day. I wouldn't be surprised if the mask stuff is rolled back in two or three weeks if we do get another 15m boosters done in that time and over 90% of 50+ people done.

    That was the clear indication from Javid's statement in the HoC.
    That's a relief if so. I suspect many people fear restrictions more than they fear the virus now.
  • maaarsh said:

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    Of course that + number on the cases is 7 days on 7 days. Today's data, same as previous 2 days, is down on prior week. Case growth already lower than testing growth and should flip back green tomorrow or the day after.
    Anecdotally I am not hearing now of entire classes going down with Covid in schools. Is is the odd pupil here and there now, even in the primaries. Obviously I only know about a small area but very different from a little while ago where people seemed to be going down with Covid everywhere.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Case summary

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  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,223
    Just been reading about SKS's Shadow Cabinet reshuffle. It looks like he's got some focus groups on the job which suggests he's been getting some decent advice at last.

    I know it doesn't take a genius to know that his Shadow Cabinet were invisible and that he needed to do something but the fact that he has shows a new confidence.

    Whatever anyone thinks of Corbyn he's been a ball and chain around labour's neck for years and getting rid of him for good is both necessary and shows a Labour leader with a backbone.

    The whinging of the next few days don't matter. The country is crying out for a serious and honest leader and it's starting to look like we're getting one
  • Magdalena Andersson has been reappointed as Sweden’s Prime Minister
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Hospitals

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Deaths

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  • Pagin TSE....Steps axe their remaining tour dates due to further Covid cases
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,443

    Why is JVT wearing an MCC tie?

    He's a member?

    Given his apparent interest in sport.
  • Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    Did you hear her?
    No, but my question was a general one.
    I suggest you do, before criticising others, or mis-ascribing views to them.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/1826e88c-22d7-4df2-a5a7-03f3c09ac536

    15.44.53
    God she's an awful speaker.

    No one is.

    Safe.

    Until everyone.







    Is.






    Safe.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Age related data

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  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,827

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    Cases do look like they are falling now.

    Lets hope the usual suspects don't get to attribute this to masks. Not because I'm that bothered by masks, but because it promotes a misunderstanding of the current situation.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390
    AlistairM said:

    maaarsh said:

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    Of course that + number on the cases is 7 days on 7 days. Today's data, same as previous 2 days, is down on prior week. Case growth already lower than testing growth and should flip back green tomorrow or the day after.
    Anecdotally I am not hearing now of entire classes going down with Covid in schools. Is is the odd pupil here and there now, even in the primaries. Obviously I only know about a small area but very different from a little while ago where people seemed to be going down with Covid everywhere.
    I think that is to be expected as so many will already have had it. I know this has been predicted many times over the pandemic, but I do really think we have got there this time, and covid is running out of new targets.
    Hopefully omicron doesn't upset that picture too much.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589
    edited November 2021
    maaarsh said:

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    Of course that + number on the cases is 7 days on 7 days. Today's data, same as previous 2 days, is down on prior week. Case growth already lower than testing growth and should flip back green tomorrow or the day after.
    A turn around? Last three days have all shown lower new infections compared to same day a week earlier. Other measures improving nicely too.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,790

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Good news for fans of Thornberry's return, Dan Hodges agrees with you -

    @DPJHodges
    16m
    I actually think Emily Thornberry to Shadow Home Affairs is a good move. Whatever White Van baggage she might carry, she's a scrapper. And Labour need that in that brief.


    The flags story was trivial bollocks. Who in their right mind would want to live next to that effing state of a house?

    Still, it was a great gift on PB as I had hours of fun asking the usual pearl-clutching PB Tories whether they, or their wife, would be comfortable if their next-door neighbour decked the front of their house in England flags. Much twisting and pin-head dancing ensued.
    I'd quite happily live next to that house.

    Absolutely no qualms with my neighbours flying flags. On my street I've got multiple neighbours who routinely fly flags, including one permanently flying a Unite flag. I've got many more who fly them during England tournaments and I've done so myself. Doesn't bother me at all, live and let live.

    Anyone bothered by that needs to get their head out of their arse. Do you whinge about neighbours putting Christmas or Halloween decorations out too? Miserable gits.
    Bully for you. The guy who decked his house in England flags did so in November 2014 – nothing to do with a major football tournament. It looked a right state and most people would be unhappy to have to live next to it.
    Why?

    We've got a neighbour who moans about other people's houses. She's full of shit in my opinion and so is anyone (I doubt its "most people") who get upset about other people's homes.

    However people want to decorate their own home is up to them. Variety is the spice of life.

    Curtain twitching busybodies need to get a life.
    Bully for you if you (and your wife!) have such accommodating attitudes. I can tell you that they aren't widely shared. Most people don't want their streets to look a right state. But, each to their own.
    As I said, there's multiple people who regularly fly flags on my street and nobody kicks off a stink about it.

    "Each to their own" is the polar opposite of being a curtain twitching busybody whinging about other people's homes.
    You lost your big St George in mysterious circumstances as I recall.
    Nothing mysterious - my wife isn't keen and happy wife, happy life.

    If it was a neighbour not being keen, I wouldn't care less.
    Suppose it was a neighbour who objected to a huge 20ft square Pirate Flag that you had decided to drape over your house and he came to ask if you would mind taking it down as it was upsetting his young children.

    Couldn't care less?
    I'd politely tell them to mind their own business.
    Great neighbour.
    Absolutely, being polite to a curtain twitcher is more than they deserve, but manners maketh man.
    And as for my next question - if your children were being upset by something in your neighbour's house. Just suck it up because it's none of your business?
    If my children were upset by something in my neighbours house then I'd comfort them and teach them that there's nothing to be afraid of.

    I'd parent my kids, not my neighbours.
    Do you know your neighbours' names?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212
    IshmaelZ said:

    Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    In fairness, it was quite the opposite – lots of shrill panic-mongering from the usual suspects.
    As I recall you were quite cool with it. And @Leon who went all, back to his bunker in Penarth mode, calmed down on the SA GP's news.
    Eh? Did you read Leon's posts last night? It's endless panicking from him.

    As for the GP, I have no problem with her comments being reported. I don't read much into them – they shouldn't be overanalysed – but I don't see why the networks shouldn't carry them at all.
    "The fit, normally healthy young men who walked into my surgery didn't exhibit severe symptoms"

    Very insightful.
    Except that she explicitly addressed that point

    "Dr Coetzee, who was briefing other African medical associations on Saturday, made clear her patients were all healthy and she was worried the new variant could still hit older people – with co-morbidities such as diabetes or heart disease – much harder.

    “What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/
    Indeed so. The presentation of this interview on here is bizarre: a true 'only on PB' moment.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,801

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    A few of those deaths are probably due to other causes anyway. 2ish on the face of it, but there must be a bias where ill people get tested more. So perhaps 5-10. If o isn't radically more dangerous then we're not on so bad a course.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    Yes, the irony of the current situ is that the domestic numbers are looking pretty good (yes, I know, I know)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,223
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Good news for fans of Thornberry's return, Dan Hodges agrees with you -

    @DPJHodges
    16m
    I actually think Emily Thornberry to Shadow Home Affairs is a good move. Whatever White Van baggage she might carry, she's a scrapper. And Labour need that in that brief.


    The flags story was trivial bollocks. Who in their right mind would want to live next to that effing state of a house?

    Still, it was a great gift on PB as I had hours of fun asking the usual pearl-clutching PB Tories whether they, or their wife, would be comfortable if their next-door neighbour decked the front of their house in England flags. Much twisting and pin-head dancing ensued.
    I'd quite happily live next to that house.

    Absolutely no qualms with my neighbours flying flags. On my street I've got multiple neighbours who routinely fly flags, including one permanently flying a Unite flag. I've got many more who fly them during England tournaments and I've done so myself. Doesn't bother me at all, live and let live.

    Anyone bothered by that needs to get their head out of their arse. Do you whinge about neighbours putting Christmas or Halloween decorations out too? Miserable gits.
    Bully for you. The guy who decked his house in England flags did so in November 2014 – nothing to do with a major football tournament. It looked a right state and most people would be unhappy to have to live next to it.
    Why?

    We've got a neighbour who moans about other people's houses. She's full of shit in my opinion and so is anyone (I doubt its "most people") who get upset about other people's homes.

    However people want to decorate their own home is up to them. Variety is the spice of life.

    Curtain twitching busybodies need to get a life.
    Bully for you if you (and your wife!) have such accommodating attitudes. I can tell you that they aren't widely shared. Most people don't want their streets to look a right state. But, each to their own.
    As I said, there's multiple people who regularly fly flags on my street and nobody kicks off a stink about it.

    "Each to their own" is the polar opposite of being a curtain twitching busybody whinging about other people's homes.
    You lost your big St George in mysterious circumstances as I recall.
    Nothing mysterious - my wife isn't keen and happy wife, happy life.

    If it was a neighbour not being keen, I wouldn't care less.
    Suppose it was a neighbour who objected to a huge 20ft square Pirate Flag that you had decided to drape over your house and he came to ask if you would mind taking it down as it was upsetting his young children.

    Couldn't care less?
    I'd politely tell them to mind their own business.
    Great neighbour.
    Absolutely, being polite to a curtain twitcher is more than they deserve, but manners maketh man.
    And as for my next question - if your children were being upset by something in your neighbour's house. Just suck it up because it's none of your business?
    If my children were upset by something in my neighbours house then I'd comfort them and teach them that there's nothing to be afraid of.

    I'd parent my kids, not my neighbours.
    Do you know your neighbours' names?
    Boris and Carrie
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212
    Normally a fan of Rosena but her response was a bit ranty and look at me...

    Not good. I suspect she might have just done herself out of a promotion.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Omnium said:

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    A few of those deaths are probably due to other causes anyway. 2ish on the face of it, but there must be a bias where ill people get tested more. So perhaps 5-10. If o isn't radically more dangerous then we're not on so bad a course.

    Monday.... reporting day......

    image
  • Tories still +7 on economy.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,801

    Normally a fan of Rosena but her response was a bit ranty and look at me...

    Not good. I suspect she might have just done herself out of a promotion.

    I thought she might be new shadow Home Sec. Perhaps she is and just jittery because of the huge promotion.
  • The question that should cause real concern is how we deal with those refusing vaccination

    Furthermore what on earth is going to happen in Europe who already are in a covid crisis with delta
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,107
    edited November 2021

    Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    Did you hear her?
    No, but my question was a general one.
    I suggest you do, before criticising others, or mis-ascribing views to them.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/1826e88c-22d7-4df2-a5a7-03f3c09ac536

    15.44.53
    Thanks for the link/timestamp (actually the website helpfully has links to the right time point for different speakers too).

    I have to agree - and I say that as someone who, although not knowing a great deal about her, has been reasonably impressed by Allin-Khan in the past. It's all a bit unfocused, making some mostly irrelevant points or other things pandemic related (some it more in her brief, to be fair). I'm listening and generally thinking "blah blah blah"

    As David mentioned earlier, with the reference to TB in 1987, a good response here would have been acknowledging that Omicron is not the government's fault, but pushing on why the present changes have been introduced, what it is hoped they will achieve, under what circumstances they will be removed, what the best and worst cases are from here for the winter etc. Bonus points for setting out what Labour would do differently now. Another lockdown? More masks? WFH? I don't know.

    Javid, responding to Allin-Khan, got the tone right and gave a good response.

    I continue to be unimpressed with Labour on Covid, while thinking that they are slowly heading in the right direction in many other areas.

    Edit: The SNP guy, just started hearing him. Right tone, suggestion of other things that could be done etc.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 1,506
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Seriously. Thornberry. Yet another north London hand-wringer.

    Could Starmer not find a midlander or northerner who shares the priorities of voters in the seats we need to win? We need to out-Priti Priti on home affairs, and show that we would succeed where she is failing.

    A bad appointment.

    This absolutely spot on. In one move alone votes lost where needed in Wales with no useful votes gained in London.
    Also silly for Labour to shadow home office with left winger, Nandy should do it being most right winger in cabinet.
    I live in Wales and I couldn't tell you who or what Nick Thomas-Symonds looks or sounds like. And now I need never know.
    To be honest I thought he was okay. It’s lazy on here to save he was completely rubbish. He dressed smart. He spoke sensibly and clearly. On the news a lot last week. Wasn’t horribly opportunist about the issues in the channel like Nandy was over the weekend. He looked like a safe pair of hands for government.
    I pay way more attention to politics than about 90% of the population and if you had asked me this morning who the shadow Home Secretary was this morning I might have come up with Nick but no way I would have got the surname. Given that the Home Secretary is under the pump and, frankly, more than a tad obnoxious, that's not great.

    I am sure that SKS wants people who can demand the attention of the media and sound punchy. He's right to the extent that is what opposition politicians need to do to be even noticed. Thornberry is not everyone's cup of tea but neither is Patel. She will certainly be heard.
    I know what you are saying, but I think it’s wrong. Opposition shadows you get to hear about when they have made a mistake. It’s just not that easy, because what gets thrown at them whenever they attack in Parliament or in tv debate, what’s your policy then?

    There is no real votes in attacking in opposition, only in laying out and explaining policy positions.

    I still vividly remember a very young looking Tony Blair appearing on Newsnight on Black Wednesday. as City Minister. He showed a clear understanding of the problems, just the right amount of sympathy for Ministers in real difficulty and clear bullet point answers. The Cabinet Minister up with him looked a bumbling incompetent by comparison. I remember thinking I have just seen a political masterclass and this guy is going to be a real challenge. Thornberry is not close to that but she's still way better than the vast majority of the shadow cabinet.

    I agree that being an attack dog is not enough but you need to show competence and a clear alternative, even if the details are (understandably) missing.
    I really like your post there David.
    The first rule of politics is not attack, just explain your position on issues. So you are measuring their talent in how well they communicate this. And acknowledging something had gone wrong not because your opposite number is stupid, but because some things that come up are difficult, is a master stroke in sounding fair and thoughtful. Attack merely siren Calls you down the stupid road Nandy choose to go down at the weekend. It’s leads to a dead end where you have lost the voters because you don’t actually have any answers. Boris knows it well, he is currently head butting the wall of that dead end.

    Labour need policies and good calm communicators, not finger jabbers like Cooper or bruisers like maaaaaatron. 🤣
    Cooper's cool as a cucumber. Very clever too. Her debit (imo) is a slight aura of 'take the punch bowl away before anybody has even arrived'. But if (as I hope) people are starting to tire of 'politics needs to be a good giggle' this won't be a debit at all.
    I am happy to learn. What did I actually say that was wrong in the first paragraph?
    I think you said she was a shouty pointy politician.
    Not in the first paragraph.

    But effective opposition isn’t just about using the time on the mic just to rant and try to fire off all what government just done wrong.

    When was the last time you saw Blair, Clegg or Cable aggressively finger jabbing or ranting.

    Formulate policy. Communicate policy effectively. Stay on message and rebutt early and often. That’s opposition, nothing else.

    It’s not not media want, they want adversarial battles and ding dongs, politics as blood sport. Stuff the media. Stick to what Jade says on this.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021
    580 people in South Africa's Gauteng province were hospitalized with COVID-19 last week, up 330% from 2 weeks ago

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1465352484193460224?s=20
  • moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    Cases do look like they are falling now.

    Lets hope the usual suspects don't get to attribute this to masks. Not because I'm that bothered by masks, but because it promotes a misunderstanding of the current situation.
    You can bet your bottom dollar that some will! (Even though the shopping mask mandate doesn't even kick in until tomorrow!!)
  • maaarsh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    maaarsh said:

    In case anyone cares in the middle of our leaders panicing so we don't have to / not letting a good crisis go to waste (delete as appropriate).

    RSA cases down to 2.2k today - from 2.8k yesterday and 3.2k on Saturday.

    And you have studied weekend reporting effects to the extent you are satisfied those figures are in some way meaningful?
    Well, week on week cases are down 88%, but I wouldn't try to claim that is a fair read. Regardless the trajectory is not terrifying, and the actual cases figures from the epicentre of this crisis seem to me to be at least as relevant as estimates of what might happen.
    Last Monday they reported 314
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,823

    AlistairM said:

    maaarsh said:

    42,583 (+3.7%) 35 deaths (-18.4%) admissions (-11.2%)

    Of course that + number on the cases is 7 days on 7 days. Today's data, same as previous 2 days, is down on prior week. Case growth already lower than testing growth and should flip back green tomorrow or the day after.
    Anecdotally I am not hearing now of entire classes going down with Covid in schools. Is is the odd pupil here and there now, even in the primaries. Obviously I only know about a small area but very different from a little while ago where people seemed to be going down with Covid everywhere.
    I think that is to be expected as so many will already have had it. I know this has been predicted many times over the pandemic, but I do really think we have got there this time, and covid is running out of new targets.
    Hopefully omicron doesn't upset that picture too much.
    I don't have kids, but colleagues who do say the situation in local schools is mayhem, with teachers and pupils alike going down with it in turn and all Christmas and other school events cancelled as the "bubbles" resume to limit spread. On the upside, though, the same sources say that the symptoms are typically mild - often a bad headache and a high temperature for a few days, manageable with paracetamol/aspirin. Only one reported case ended up in hospital.

    Cautionary note: I've only talked to three parents and I don't have any involvement with education at all.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212
    Omnium said:

    Normally a fan of Rosena but her response was a bit ranty and look at me...

    Not good. I suspect she might have just done herself out of a promotion.

    I thought she might be new shadow Home Sec. Perhaps she is and just jittery because of the huge promotion.
    That's possible. She did come across as very edgy – which is unlike her as normally she is borderline too relaxed, even to the point of flirting with being flippant.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,387
    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    Quite the opposite. Almost everyone here has been saying the SA doctor has been misquoted. You see what you want to see though.
    I don't think people were saying misquoted, rather nobody was giving the full context (nor explaining why a GP isn't in the best position to judge this), and that is now being spun as "fact".

    e.g. the Telegraph is running a story that

    Omicron Covid variant Q&A: How the symptoms differ and what protection vaccines offer

    which again uses the same quote again, to make it sound like people know for certain the symptoms are different.
    The explanation why a GP isn't in the best position to judge this being...?
    Beware of extrapolation from small datasets? A GP will perhaps know of half a dozen cases.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
  • moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Did you watch her response because if you did I doubt you would dismiss it so lightly

    It was wrong in tone and content, as has been commented on here by others
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    Quite the opposite. Almost everyone here has been saying the SA doctor has been misquoted. You see what you want to see though.
    I don't think people were saying misquoted, rather nobody was giving the full context (nor explaining why a GP isn't in the best position to judge this), and that is now being spun as "fact".

    e.g. the Telegraph is running a story that

    Omicron Covid variant Q&A: How the symptoms differ and what protection vaccines offer

    which again uses the same quote again, to make it sound like people know for certain the symptoms are different.
    The explanation why a GP isn't in the best position to judge this being...?
    Beware of extrapolation from small datasets? A GP will perhaps know of half a dozen cases.
    And you aren't popping to the GP if you actually think you have COVID in the first place.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 3,395

    moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Glad we agree. If her intellect is so stunted she still thinks we can still eliminate this virus from circulation and it is worth trying to do so at any cost, I don’t want her anywhere near national power nor nhs patients.
  • Magdalena Andersson has been reappointed as Sweden’s Prime Minister

    Is she going to try to beat her own record?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,478

    Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    Did you hear her?
    No, but my question was a general one.
    I suggest you do, before criticising others, or mis-ascribing views to them.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/1826e88c-22d7-4df2-a5a7-03f3c09ac536

    15.44.53
    I didn't think it was too bad except for the "no one is safe, until everyone is safe" nonsense.

    Mis-ascribing views? I do apologise but have I missed your biting critique or retweet on Johnson's CBI speech or Paterson's behaviour, for example? Or even today, Bridgen's maskless outburst about "Government by diktat".

    I await in eager anticipation some retweeted gaffes from Boris and his chums...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Difficult to say just yet, we need to know whether Omicron can cause severe disease in vaccinated and recovered patients with high immunity to Delta. If it does then we're all pretty much fucked, if it doesn't then it's really no change.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,801

    Omnium said:

    Normally a fan of Rosena but her response was a bit ranty and look at me...

    Not good. I suspect she might have just done herself out of a promotion.

    I thought she might be new shadow Home Sec. Perhaps she is and just jittery because of the huge promotion.
    That's possible. She did come across as very edgy – which is unlike her as normally she is borderline too relaxed, even to the point of flirting with being flippant.
    If I was Starmer I'd want the media savvy people in the front rank now. RAK is good, Thornberry actually isn't too bad. I know it sounds nuts but Lammy is much improved too. Cooper is very solid, but could do much better work just in the cabinet advising.
  • Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    Normally a fan of Rosena but her response was a bit ranty and look at me...

    Not good. I suspect she might have just done herself out of a promotion.

    I heard it and it was awful. Stark contrast to the Health Secretary.
    My only complaint would be that Javed started the party political tone, a bit too much crowing about what the government had done. If he had toned it down a touch, it would have hit a better pitch. Rosena just sounded shouty and shrill. Obsessed with Tories not wearing masks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    Foxy said:
    She already lost 17 Commonwealth realms over the course of her reign, this will be the 18th so she is used to it. As of midnight she will pass on just 15 Commonwealth realms to Charles, fewer than half the level at the start of her reign. India and Ireland had already ceased to have her father as Head of State even before she became Queen.

    However Barbados will remain within the Commonwealth
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800
    Foxy said:
    Will be offset by Scotland becoming independent.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Seriously. Thornberry. Yet another north London hand-wringer.

    Could Starmer not find a midlander or northerner who shares the priorities of voters in the seats we need to win? We need to out-Priti Priti on home affairs, and show that we would succeed where she is failing.

    A bad appointment.

    This absolutely spot on. In one move alone votes lost where needed in Wales with no useful votes gained in London.
    Also silly for Labour to shadow home office with left winger, Nandy should do it being most right winger in cabinet.
    I live in Wales and I couldn't tell you who or what Nick Thomas-Symonds looks or sounds like. And now I need never know.
    To be honest I thought he was okay. It’s lazy on here to save he was completely rubbish. He dressed smart. He spoke sensibly and clearly. On the news a lot last week. Wasn’t horribly opportunist about the issues in the channel like Nandy was over the weekend. He looked like a safe pair of hands for government.
    I pay way more attention to politics than about 90% of the population and if you had asked me this morning who the shadow Home Secretary was this morning I might have come up with Nick but no way I would have got the surname. Given that the Home Secretary is under the pump and, frankly, more than a tad obnoxious, that's not great.

    I am sure that SKS wants people who can demand the attention of the media and sound punchy. He's right to the extent that is what opposition politicians need to do to be even noticed. Thornberry is not everyone's cup of tea but neither is Patel. She will certainly be heard.
    I know what you are saying, but I think it’s wrong. Opposition shadows you get to hear about when they have made a mistake. It’s just not that easy, because what gets thrown at them whenever they attack in Parliament or in tv debate, what’s your policy then?

    There is no real votes in attacking in opposition, only in laying out and explaining policy positions.

    I still vividly remember a very young looking Tony Blair appearing on Newsnight on Black Wednesday. as City Minister. He showed a clear understanding of the problems, just the right amount of sympathy for Ministers in real difficulty and clear bullet point answers. The Cabinet Minister up with him looked a bumbling incompetent by comparison. I remember thinking I have just seen a political masterclass and this guy is going to be a real challenge. Thornberry is not close to that but she's still way better than the vast majority of the shadow cabinet.

    I agree that being an attack dog is not enough but you need to show competence and a clear alternative, even if the details are (understandably) missing.
    I really like your post there David.
    The first rule of politics is not attack, just explain your position on issues. So you are measuring their talent in how well they communicate this. And acknowledging something had gone wrong not because your opposite number is stupid, but because some things that come up are difficult, is a master stroke in sounding fair and thoughtful. Attack merely siren Calls you down the stupid road Nandy choose to go down at the weekend. It’s leads to a dead end where you have lost the voters because you don’t actually have any answers. Boris knows it well, he is currently head butting the wall of that dead end.

    Labour need policies and good calm communicators, not finger jabbers like Cooper or bruisers like maaaaaatron. 🤣
    Cooper's cool as a cucumber. Very clever too. Her debit (imo) is a slight aura of 'take the punch bowl away before anybody has even arrived'. But if (as I hope) people are starting to tire of 'politics needs to be a good giggle' this won't be a debit at all.
    I am happy to learn. What did I actually say that was wrong in the first paragraph?
    I think you said she was a shouty pointy politician.
    Not in the first paragraph.

    But effective opposition isn’t just about using the time on the mic just to rant and try to fire off all what government just done wrong.

    When was the last time you saw Blair, Clegg or Cable aggressively finger jabbing or ranting.

    Formulate policy. Communicate policy effectively. Stay on message and rebutt early and often. That’s opposition, nothing else.

    It’s not not media want, they want adversarial battles and ding dongs, politics as blood sport. Stuff the media. Stick to what Jade says on this.
    No, that's what I'm saying to you. Cooper isn't a ranty jabby politician. She's a forensic type. Her milieu is more select committee than beer hall.
  • NEW: Spain reports first confirmed case of new coronavirus variant
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800

    Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....

    Fake news...

    "Trapped Tan Hill Inn guests leave"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-59459150
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,478

    Magdalena Andersson has been reappointed as Sweden’s Prime Minister

    ...but will Lady Nugee be re-appointed Shadow Home Secretary?

    moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Did you watch her response because if you did I doubt you would dismiss it so lightly

    It was wrong in tone and content, as has been commented on here by others
    By you, Carlotta and Selebian, so far.

    She should have done better, but it wasn't the Peppa Pig fiasco to which you allude.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 1,506
    edited November 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Seriously. Thornberry. Yet another north London hand-wringer.

    Could Starmer not find a midlander or northerner who shares the priorities of voters in the seats we need to win? We need to out-Priti Priti on home affairs, and show that we would succeed where she is failing.

    A bad appointment.

    This absolutely spot on. In one move alone votes lost where needed in Wales with no useful votes gained in London.
    Also silly for Labour to shadow home office with left winger, Nandy should do it being most right winger in cabinet.
    I live in Wales and I couldn't tell you who or what Nick Thomas-Symonds looks or sounds like. And now I need never know.
    To be honest I thought he was okay. It’s lazy on here to save he was completely rubbish. He dressed smart. He spoke sensibly and clearly. On the news a lot last week. Wasn’t horribly opportunist about the issues in the channel like Nandy was over the weekend. He looked like a safe pair of hands for government.
    I pay way more attention to politics than about 90% of the population and if you had asked me this morning who the shadow Home Secretary was this morning I might have come up with Nick but no way I would have got the surname. Given that the Home Secretary is under the pump and, frankly, more than a tad obnoxious, that's not great.

    I am sure that SKS wants people who can demand the attention of the media and sound punchy. He's right to the extent that is what opposition politicians need to do to be even noticed. Thornberry is not everyone's cup of tea but neither is Patel. She will certainly be heard.
    I know what you are saying, but I think it’s wrong. Opposition shadows you get to hear about when they have made a mistake. It’s just not that easy, because what gets thrown at them whenever they attack in Parliament or in tv debate, what’s your policy then?

    There is no real votes in attacking in opposition, only in laying out and explaining policy positions.

    I still vividly remember a very young looking Tony Blair appearing on Newsnight on Black Wednesday. as City Minister. He showed a clear understanding of the problems, just the right amount of sympathy for Ministers in real difficulty and clear bullet point answers. The Cabinet Minister up with him looked a bumbling incompetent by comparison. I remember thinking I have just seen a political masterclass and this guy is going to be a real challenge. Thornberry is not close to that but she's still way better than the vast majority of the shadow cabinet.

    I agree that being an attack dog is not enough but you need to show competence and a clear alternative, even if the details are (understandably) missing.
    I really like your post there David.
    The first rule of politics is not attack, just explain your position on issues. So you are measuring their talent in how well they communicate this. And acknowledging something had gone wrong not because your opposite number is stupid, but because some things that come up are difficult, is a master stroke in sounding fair and thoughtful. Attack merely siren Calls you down the stupid road Nandy choose to go down at the weekend. It’s leads to a dead end where you have lost the voters because you don’t actually have any answers. Boris knows it well, he is currently head butting the wall of that dead end.

    Labour need policies and good calm communicators, not finger jabbers like Cooper or bruisers like maaaaaatron. 🤣
    Cooper's cool as a cucumber. Very clever too. Her debit (imo) is a slight aura of 'take the punch bowl away before anybody has even arrived'. But if (as I hope) people are starting to tire of 'politics needs to be a good giggle' this won't be a debit at all.
    I am happy to learn. What did I actually say that was wrong in the first paragraph?
    I think you said she was a shouty pointy politician.
    Not in the first paragraph.

    But effective opposition isn’t just about using the time on the mic just to rant and try to fire off all what government just done wrong.

    When was the last time you saw Blair, Clegg or Cable aggressively finger jabbing or ranting.

    Formulate policy. Communicate policy effectively. Stay on message and rebutt early and often. That’s opposition, nothing else.

    It’s not not media want, they want adversarial battles and ding dongs, politics as blood sport. Stuff the media. Stick to what Jade says on this.
    No, that's what I'm saying to you. Cooper isn't a ranty jabby politician. She's a forensic type. Her milieu is more select committee than beer hall.
    Better to stay where she is then?

    She is still too ranty and jabby and pompous for my liking though.

    There was once a politician known as “the great communicator”. He never went off like an attack dog, he merely responded with a shrug huh, there you go again.

    As opposition you must never just complain complain and complain, that just plays into your opponents hands. Why? Because in so many cases you are trying to find a way of criticising what you would have done.

    I am struggling to explain myself, but if an opposition is reactive in the minds of the voters, it is losing, on the way to defeat. That reactive in the minds of the voters needs to change to proactive.

    I don’t know if that makes sense at all.

    The only way to do it is get your alternative policy positions out there and explain it.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    If Farage returned as co Leader, Reform could brand themselves ‘N-Tice’
  • Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....

    Fake news...

    "Trapped Tan Hill Inn guests leave"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-59459150
    I have a feeling they will be drying out for several days to come....
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,823


    If my children were upset by something in my neighbours house then I'd comfort them and teach them that there's nothing to be afraid of.

    I'd parent my kids, not my neighbours.

    My mother's family who left the USSR in 1922 to live in Danzig were disturbed to see that the neighbour had put up a large swastika (later on he became the Nazi gauleiter in the city after the Germans took it over). Actually arguing with the neighbour seemed unpromising. But while they weren't enthusiastic about developments back home - that's why they'd left - they felt this shouldn't go unanswered, so my grandfather bought a Soviet hammer and sickle flag and they flew that, as a silent indication that the neighbour was Not One Of Us.

    In a much more minor key, I'm not sure what the correct response is to a nationalist neighbour with a giant St George's flag. Perhaps putting up a tricoleur would be a good wind-up? But in general I tend to live and let live with people you can't escape from.
  • Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    Did you hear her?
    No, but my question was a general one.
    I suggest you do, before criticising others, or mis-ascribing views to them.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/1826e88c-22d7-4df2-a5a7-03f3c09ac536

    15.44.53
    I didn't think it was too bad except for the "no one is safe, until everyone is safe" nonsense.

    Mis-ascribing views? I do apologise but have I missed your biting critique or retweet on Johnson's CBI speech or Paterson's behaviour, for example? Or even today, Bridgen's maskless outburst about "Government by diktat".

    I await in eager anticipation some retweeted gaffes from Boris and his chums...
    I think you'll find I'm a frequent critic of Johnson and his cronies.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....

    Interesting - do the pub owners charge board and lodgings?
  • Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....

    Have they not drunk the place dry yet?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 13,478

    Allin-Khan pretty dire - monotonous rant - clearly auditioning for the reshuffle.

    Is there any non-Johnsonian you don't have contempt for?
    Did you hear her?
    No, but my question was a general one.
    I suggest you do, before criticising others, or mis-ascribing views to them.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/1826e88c-22d7-4df2-a5a7-03f3c09ac536

    15.44.53
    I didn't think it was too bad except for the "no one is safe, until everyone is safe" nonsense.

    Mis-ascribing views? I do apologise but have I missed your biting critique or retweet on Johnson's CBI speech or Paterson's behaviour, for example? Or even today, Bridgen's maskless outburst about "Government by diktat".

    I await in eager anticipation some retweeted gaffes from Boris and his chums...
    I think you'll find I'm a frequent critic of Johnson and his cronies.
    Thanks. In the interests of balance, I'll look out for them.
  • Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....

    Have they not drunk the place dry yet?
    Many moons ago I attended a party for the closing of a pub in which everybody was invited to drink the pub dry (with a crafty lock in). I drunk some terrible terrible terrible combinations of drinks that weekend.
  • moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Did you watch her response because if you did I doubt you would dismiss it so lightly

    It was wrong in tone and content, as has been commented on here by others
    "Wrong in content" lecture PB's various pray-the-pox-away deniers to the doctor.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,827

    Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....

    The only reason to go to the Tan Hill Inn at this time of year is to get snowed in.

    It isn't exactly on the route to anywhere. The 25% gradients on the road and the drifting off the open moor in anything other than a light breeze make it inevitable that it will get cut off, particularly as it sits at 520m above sea level.

    Nice bike ride in the summer though.
  • Magdalena Andersson has been reappointed as Sweden’s Prime Minister

    ...but will Lady Nugee be re-appointed Shadow Home Secretary?

    moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Did you watch her response because if you did I doubt you would dismiss it so lightly

    It was wrong in tone and content, as has been commented on here by others
    By you, Carlotta and Selebian, so far.

    She should have done better, but it wasn't the Peppa Pig fiasco to which you allude.
    I condemned Boris peppa pig speech at the time and since, but that does not mean we can give labour politicians a free pass when they make a totally inappropriate response to a very serious matter
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Name it correctly - it's the Winnie-the-Pooh variant

    Using advanced statical modelling, AI, a pile of spare knapped flints and Sir Keith Starmer's star sign, I predict that the Winnie-the-Pooh variant will increase or decrease the number of cases by +- 1,000,000,000 in the UK, in the next month.

    Your milage may vary, This prediction may contain nuts. This prediction may contain nutters. This prediction may contain trained Marxist nutters. No-one living or half-dead in the history of the universe, past, present or future accepts any responsibility for this prediction.
  • Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....

    Interesting - do the pub owners charge board and lodgings?
    more like loard and bodgings after a few drinks at the bar!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,036

    Normally a fan of Rosena but her response was a bit ranty and look at me...

    Not good. I suspect she might have just done herself out of a promotion.

    I heard it and it was awful. Stark contrast to the Health Secretary.
    My only complaint would be that Javed started the party political tone, a bit too much crowing about what the government had done. If he had toned it down a touch, it would have hit a better pitch. Rosena just sounded shouty and shrill. Obsessed with Tories not wearing masks.
    If there was no other reason to choose between the parties, I'd vote for the ones not wearing masks.
  • moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Glad we agree. If her intellect is so stunted she still thinks we can still eliminate this virus from circulation and it is worth trying to do so at any cost, I don’t want her anywhere near national power nor nhs patients.
    Indeed. We should sweep away all the doctors and the virologists and the pandemic experts with their expert knowledge and replace them with you.

    I still boggle at just how supremely self-assured the "I've done my research on the internet" crowd are when faced with things they disagree with.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,801
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    She already lost 17 Commonwealth realms over the course of her reign, this will be the 18th so she is used to it. As of midnight she will pass on just 15 Commonwealth realms to Charles, fewer than half the level at the start of her reign. India and Ireland had already ceased to have her father as Head of State even before she became Queen.

    However Barbados will remain within the Commonwealth
    No lives lost in the transition.

    It's a little sad that the long history of Empire is being dismantled. Barbados will always be an important part of Great Britain, and I hope that Great Britain will always be a part of Barbados. (Definitions aside)

    The UK hasn't been in any shape to encorage the Queen's realms that it's worth maintaining the connection anyway. Brexit makes this very slightly better.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Difficult to say just yet, we need to know whether Omicron can cause severe disease in vaccinated and recovered patients with high immunity to Delta. If it does then we're all pretty much fucked, if it doesn't then it's really no change.
    Yes, fingers crossed it's nearer to 'as we were' than 'oh no, Covid rides again'.

    I found this a striking sentence from the BBC write up of Omicron:

    "This level of mutation has most likely come from a single patient who was unable to beat the virus."
  • moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Did you watch her response because if you did I doubt you would dismiss it so lightly

    It was wrong in tone and content, as has been commented on here by others
    "Wrong in content" lecture PB's various pray-the-pox-away deniers to the doctor.
    Did you watch her response
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263

    moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Did you watch her response because if you did I doubt you would dismiss it so lightly

    It was wrong in tone and content, as has been commented on here by others
    "Wrong in content" lecture PB's various pray-the-pox-away deniers to the doctor.
    Yet you think you know better than the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine about how best to handle the virus. Personally, I'd rate their expertise as higher than that of a doctor. They're only the world's leading experts on viruses, so what do they really know about viral epidemiology, RP thinks otherwise and can't wait to tell the world he told everyone!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801


    If my children were upset by something in my neighbours house then I'd comfort them and teach them that there's nothing to be afraid of.

    I'd parent my kids, not my neighbours.

    My mother's family who left the USSR in 1922 to live in Danzig were disturbed to see that the neighbour had put up a large swastika (later on he became the Nazi gauleiter in the city after the Germans took it over). Actually arguing with the neighbour seemed unpromising. But while they weren't enthusiastic about developments back home - that's why they'd left - they felt this shouldn't go unanswered, so my grandfather bought a Soviet hammer and sickle flag and they flew that, as a silent indication that the neighbour was Not One Of Us.

    In a much more minor key, I'm not sure what the correct response is to a nationalist neighbour with a giant St George's flag. Perhaps putting up a tricoleur would be a good wind-up? But in general I tend to live and let live with people you can't escape from.
    My wife was disturbed, a couple of years back, to discover that a new neighbour had painted a swastika on their doorstep.
  • Yorkshire pubgoers face fourth day snowed in as temperatures drop to -8 Celsius

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/uk-weather-snow-cold-ice-met-office-warnings-storm-arwen/

    What will they do with themselves....

    The only reason to go to the Tan Hill Inn at this time of year is to get snowed in.

    It isn't exactly on the route to anywhere. The 25% gradients on the road and the drifting off the open moor in anything other than a light breeze make it inevitable that it will get cut off, particularly as it sits at 520m above sea level.

    Nice bike ride in the summer though.
    Most of them were there to see an Oasis tribute band apparently.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212

    Normally a fan of Rosena but her response was a bit ranty and look at me...

    Not good. I suspect she might have just done herself out of a promotion.

    I heard it and it was awful. Stark contrast to the Health Secretary.
    My only complaint would be that Javed started the party political tone, a bit too much crowing about what the government had done. If he had toned it down a touch, it would have hit a better pitch. Rosena just sounded shouty and shrill. Obsessed with Tories not wearing masks.
    Yes, the obsession with masks does Labour absolutely no favours. Their revealed preference for masklessness (as seen at the Labour Conference) is the same as the general public's revealed preference for masklessness.

    Labour needs to tread very carefully here: it should be careful not to become the party of masking and restrictions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021
    Officials from the Canadian province of Ontario confirmed on Sunday evening that two new cases of the Omicron coronavirus variant have been detected there.

    The two men had recently travelled from Nigeria to Montreal, said Dr Kieran Moore, Ontario's chief medical officer of health.

    ---

    I am still fascinated by the incredible low rates of COVID in Nigeria. Even if testing / detection is very poor, at no point have they had a rush on the hospitals.
  • Magdalena Andersson has been reappointed as Sweden’s Prime Minister

    ...but will Lady Nugee be re-appointed Shadow Home Secretary?

    moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Did you watch her response because if you did I doubt you would dismiss it so lightly

    It was wrong in tone and content, as has been commented on here by others
    By you, Carlotta and Selebian, so far.

    She should have done better, but it wasn't the Peppa Pig fiasco to which you allude.
    I condemned Boris peppa pig speech at the time and since, but that does not mean we can give labour politicians a free pass when they make a totally inappropriate response to a very serious matter
    As I didn't watch it I'm quoting from the Guardian: "She was largely critical of the government, saying that masks should never have been made voluntary on public transport in the first place, that sick pay is still inadequate, and that there should be compulsory pre-departure Covid tests for people flying into the UK. She also criticised Boris Johnson for his record on mask wearing, saying he had put people at risk in a hospital."

    Can't see anything "wrong in tone or content" from that.

  • If my children were upset by something in my neighbours house then I'd comfort them and teach them that there's nothing to be afraid of.

    I'd parent my kids, not my neighbours.

    My mother's family who left the USSR in 1922 to live in Danzig were disturbed to see that the neighbour had put up a large swastika (later on he became the Nazi gauleiter in the city after the Germans took it over). Actually arguing with the neighbour seemed unpromising. But while they weren't enthusiastic about developments back home - that's why they'd left - they felt this shouldn't go unanswered, so my grandfather bought a Soviet hammer and sickle flag and they flew that, as a silent indication that the neighbour was Not One Of Us.

    In a much more minor key, I'm not sure what the correct response is to a nationalist neighbour with a giant St George's flag. Perhaps putting up a tricoleur would be a good wind-up? But in general I tend to live and let live with people you can't escape from.
    The correct response is indifference. Flying flags is somewhere between a bit of fun and no big deal - unless it's something hateful like the Nazi swastika flag.

    Storm Arwen did for the huge Scotland flag one of my neighbours erected for Euro 2020, which is a shame. An earlier neighbour had "Scotland" tattooed across his shoulders, and that was similarly no trouble. What was trouble was when he assaulted a dog-walker on account of being born in Korea.
This discussion has been closed.