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On Smarkets its a 55% chance that Scotland will vote for Independence – politicalbetting.com

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  • glwglw Posts: 7,935
    Storm Arwen and the Omicron virus. Those are good names.
  • https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1464253544593346568

    "She just held my hand and said: 'You won't let your dad go private, will you?"

    Labour leader Keir Starmer tells @bbcnickrobinson about his late mother, a "passionate defender of the NHS"

    Does Keir Starmer imagine he is the only person who has lost his mum? He is always banging on about her as if he has undergone some tragedy unimaginable to the average voter. Has he not seen the statistics for one-parent families or just old age?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Update on the case in Belgium. Unvaccinated and developed flu-like symptoms after being infected with Nu but NO WORSE symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt. NO other symptomatic individuals in their household. https://assets.uzleuven.be/files/2021-11/genomic_surveillance_update_211126.pdf

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464270976410173441?s=20

    Which is interesting - because Delta went through households like a dose of salts....

    It's almost like there's a bunch of panic, and no actual evidence that the new variant is meaningfully worse
    I've noted something of an overlap between those panicking and those with a prior Covid record of muscular 'we just gotta get on with things and live with it' sentiment.
    My general self-imposed rule is to neither whoop with delight nor plunge into gloom until a week's data is consistent. What we can say on that basisis that things are tight in hospitals but have eased slightly, cases are still high but plateaued, death rate is low. We can't say anything sensible, positive or otherwise, about the South African variant yet.
    That's right. For Delta we are as we were and on Omi we await data on how bad it is and whether it beats our vaccines. Hopefully it won't be a worst case outcome. I guess one good thing about getting really really worried before knowing the facts is that if the facts come in relatively benign you get a nice blast of relief and the current not brilliant situation looks a bit rosier.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021

    https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1464253544593346568

    "She just held my hand and said: 'You won't let your dad go private, will you?"

    Labour leader Keir Starmer tells @bbcnickrobinson about his late mother, a "passionate defender of the NHS"

    Does Keir Starmer imagine he is the only person who has lost his mum? He is always banging on about her as if he has undergone some tragedy unimaginable to the average voter. Has he not seen the statistics for one-parent families or just old age?
    Perhaps his advisors have told him Cameron personal moving story of reliance on the NHS helped his image and they should play up any similar experience? He certainly airs this element of his backstory on a regular basis.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 1,251
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    And then this:



    "Ryan Imgrund
    @imgrund
    BREAKING NEWS The effective reproduction number of the B.1.1.529 variant first found in Gauteng Province, South Africa is 1.94.

    R indicated something may have been awry back on October 29th.

    An Rt of 1.94 corresponds to a quadrupling of cases in just six days."


    https://twitter.com/imgrund/status/1464278502656598020?s=20


    We may just luck out and this variant will be extremely infectious, but relatively mild, and the whole fucking kerfuffle finally fizzles out, as new SuperMild NuNu outcompetes its nastier but less viral peers

    I for one shall say a prayer to Gaia

    An Rt of 1.94 is tiny (actually lower than original COVID), Delta has an Rt of 6.5, for example. Is there any further information?
    I'm trying to work out what he means by "effective reproduction number" - presumably it is not pure R, but some kind of R in the real world, where there is some immunity and mitigation?

    I'm sure I could pass a GCSE in epidemiology now. But not an A Level
    R of 1.94 in a fully vaccinated population would imply a high level of immunity escape, in a poorly vaccinated population it would be around the same Rt as Delta, maybe a bit higher at Rt 8-9 which is not a disaster, at least not for a country like the UK where there are 51m people with some level of vaccination and a further 8-10m with natural immunity.
    Guy on Twitter reckons this data implies that Nu's R0 is close to measles: R16

    You need 95% immunity to suppress measles, we won't get that until we've all got the Nunu, it will infect everyone vulnerable very fast

    Still not a disaster if it is not severe, indeed possibly the end of the pandemic, as you have said
    "Guy on Twitter reckons..."

    Hmmm...
    Actually some of the smartest and quickest information often comes from quite random people in the Twittersphere: geeks at home crunching numbers, random scientists in a lunchbreak, someone with inside knowledge who decides to vent.

    If you rely entirely on blue tick authorities you soon end up in an echo chamber and an info bubble. You NEED the random odd opinions from all quarters. Even people with 5 followers can produce startling insights.

    The trick is knowing how to filter them, however. To ignore the genuinely mad stuff. Not always easy.
    This is exactly the challenge on PB too. If you get the knack of screening out the stuff that is bad and wrong and just run with the stuff that is good and right you end up sitting pretty. Prettier than you would have sat if you hadn't stopped by in the first place.
    Indeed - looking back through the comments a poster actually raised the question of a new variant on November 21st.
  • MaxPB said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    Omnium said:

    Javid really should be issuing some sort of public health advisory. Wear a mask where you can, don't do so much daft stuff, work from home if there's an option, and if you're croaky, stay home.

    Someone this morning said he looked like a rabbit in the headlights - I think that's right. He rather brushed aside Hancock's work (the actual work). I think Hancock was a far better Health minister though.

    Are you mad? Hancock was completely incapable. Javid overnight forced through a red list decision. With Hancock they gave days of notice each time. He also forced through vaccines for 12-15 year olds and a very, very wide booster programme. Aiui he laid down the law to the JCVI about their remit wrt giving vaccines away and told them to get on with it.
    Mad? Don't think so, but you can be the judge.

    Hancock was completely on the case in my view. Apart of course from where he was otherwise engaged.

    Javid just made a noise. I'd prefer Hancock in charge of health, and I'd much prefer to see Hunt at the helm.
    I honestly can't think of a single scenario where Hancock was on the case. The vaccine procurement was handed to the VTF and a specialist in biotech VC because Hancock wasn't trusted to actually do it properly. He completely bungled PPE procurement and even the roll out of testing was simply turned into a numbers game, on isolation he completely failed to get treasury buy in to make isolation viable for ordinary people and on reopening he was simply unable to see beyond lockdowns. He was and is a complete disaster and whoever leaked that video did the nation a huge favour.
    I think he did an outstanding job. He was there in the middle of a total panic, and he was always calm and considered. The huge expenditure from the treasury was undoubtedly in part influenced by him (slightly too much in my view)

    PPE procurement was just about finding something. Some bones can be picked over, and villains found and (my preference) shot.

    Test and Trace was awful. Was that Hancock though? I don't think it was. (Cummings?)

    Vaccination was good. Presumably him.
    T&T is all Hancock and Dido, it was and still is pretty rubbish. Vaccines was the VTF, not Hancock. If anyone in the government is to take credit it's Dom for taking it away from the DoH and Boris for approaching and appointing Kate Bingham who is a specialist in biotech investment (picking winners). PPE was a disaster, we actively ignored UK based PPE manufacturers in favour of Tory donors and cowboys who said they could source PPE and then didn't deliver.

    You seem to have an odd attachment to Hancock, he was useless and the government was drastically improved when he got booted.
    Was it not Hancock who insisted on ordering different sorts of vaccines (based on some film he'd watched iirc)?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,387
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    'If the climate change people are right' is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,334
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    'If the climate change people are right' is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    I meant as in right that around 2 billlion will be needing to move because their countries are no longer liveable rather than as in climate change is happening.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited November 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    'If the climate change people are right' is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    Not really, because even if the climate stays as it is now the forecast increase in population in SSA is gonna produce a lorra, lorra migrants
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,387
    MattW said:

    On necrophilia, and relationships with the dead.

    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Boy, there's a world of difference between sexual orientation and kinks, which vary from "gosh, feet" all the way to "I want to literally carve my name into your back with a knife".

    People who are into stuff absolutely across the line (paedophilia, necrophilia etc) should be shamed to deter the odds on them grouping up with others and creating a support network for such behaviour, and to encourage them to seek help or just restrain themselves.

    Shaming someone for being into S&M is daft (and counterproductive if they're into humiliation), but some things are unacceptable and pretending otherwise is damned silly.

    Why is necrophilia 'absolutely across the line'? If I am willing to let my body (post death) be used for others amusement, why should that be prohibited?
    How do you see matters of consent wrt necrophilia?

    Would you require consent from relatives? Before death from the victim / recipient? Or do you consider that nobody owns a corpse, so you can do what you like with it, as you could with a clump of grass from the roadside?

    (Do we have laws about what you can do to the body of a dead animal / pet, or is that based on respecting the value of the relationship between the pet and the owner?)

    I was surprised at the vehemence of the reaction to the recent cases of abuse of bodies in morgues, and I could not tell quite who was doing the objecting - ordinary people, tabloid outrage buses, or some sort of establishment. Listening to the terminology of "abuse" and "victims" being used, and who it was being applied to, was quite an eye opener.

    But there is not very much clear philosophical thinking about our relationships with the dead.

    I have had a practice of going to visit the bodies of dead relatives for many years following a decision I made in my early 20s, but the general populace is still remarkably resistant to thinking about such questions.

    In a society where many are happy killing an unborn child/fetus up until the moment of birth I'd hope for a bit more clarity of thought.

    This is really very simply: the same rules apply as for organ donors. You need to leave permission for your body to be used for sexual gratification, and you also need to specify who gets to use said body.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Update on the case in Belgium. Unvaccinated and developed flu-like symptoms after being infected with Nu but NO WORSE symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt. NO other symptomatic individuals in their household. https://assets.uzleuven.be/files/2021-11/genomic_surveillance_update_211126.pdf

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464270976410173441?s=20

    Which is interesting - because Delta went through households like a dose of salts....

    It's almost like there's a bunch of panic, and no actual evidence that the new variant is meaningfully worse
    I've noted something of an overlap between those panicking and those with a prior Covid record of muscular 'we just gotta get on with things and live with it' sentiment.
    My general self-imposed rule is to neither whoop with delight nor plunge into gloom until a week's data is consistent. What we can say on that basisis that things are tight in hospitals but have eased slightly, cases are still high but plateaued, death rate is low. We can't say anything sensible, positive or otherwise, about the South African variant yet.
    That's right. For Delta we are as we were and on Omi we await data on how bad it is and whether it beats our vaccines. Hopefully it won't be a worst case outcome. I guess one good thing about getting really really worried before knowing the facts is that if the facts come in relatively benign you get a nice blast of relief and the current not brilliant situation looks a bit rosier.
    No, NPXMP is being too blase about OMICRON, THE KING OF VIRUSES

    We do know more now, and we know enough to be worried (but not hysterical, heaven forbid). Omicron is almost certainly a negative development. We just don't know how negative, yet
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,078
    Omnium said:

    Eabhal said:

    Just had a medium sized retailer phone me to say they cannot fulfill an order made a few weeks ago. Unusual.

    I predicted that energy costs and other supply problems would hit consumer goods next spring. Perhaps the Christmas really could be an issue?

    On a vaguely-related Christmas supplies note, M&S has closed online food orders: "all booked up".
    https://christmasfood.marksandspencer.com/finished
    Noticeable shortage of crisps at the corner shop earlier when I popped out to get milk, bread, and beer.
    I'm sure you're supposed to be serenely surveying the landscape as per your name. Crisps!

    Despite the bucolic sound, my name actually refers to a street I used to live on in very central London.

    I thought it suitably anonymous, but was rumbled by the late Meeks, who lived around the corner.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    pigeon said:

    Chris Whitty: I worry people won't accept more Covid curbs

    Prof Whitty told a panel discussion hosted by the Local Government Association: "My greatest worry at the moment is that people... if we need to do something more muscular at some point, whether it's for the current new variant or at some later stage, can we still take people with us?"

    But he added that, despite previous restrictions being "very destructive" to society and the economy, the public had shown an "extraordinary" ability to "just accept that there are things we collectively have to do to protect one another and do collectively".

    Prof Whitty added, however, that it had become harder to ensure compliance over time, saying: "It's easier to be confident of people's response right at the beginning than it is after people put up with two years of their lives being interfered with."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59434196

    He's right to doubt the likelihood of public compliance. I think that most of us have had enough.

    Bloody right. Plus he's a nerdy wimp, and when he talks about getting muscular on my ass I think, You and whose army?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144
    glw said:

    Storm Arwen and the Omicron virus. Those are good names.

    I saw them at the students union in '93
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    edited November 2021
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Update on the case in Belgium. Unvaccinated and developed flu-like symptoms after being infected with Nu but NO WORSE symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt. NO other symptomatic individuals in their household. https://assets.uzleuven.be/files/2021-11/genomic_surveillance_update_211126.pdf

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464270976410173441?s=20

    Which is interesting - because Delta went through households like a dose of salts....

    It's almost like there's a bunch of panic, and no actual evidence that the new variant is meaningfully worse
    I've noted something of an overlap between those panicking and those with a prior Covid record of muscular 'we just gotta get on with things and live with it' sentiment.
    There will be an overlap - they are panicking about the politicians' responses rather than about the virus itself. (See the Israeli PM's comments earlier.)
    Ah I meant something slightly different. The distinction between 'living with it' domestically and internationally. What's struck me from time to time is that people who are very anti 'lockdown' are at the same time gung ho and straight out of the traps for shutting borders. So, let's 'live with it' here but globally let's do the opposite.

    And then the general nay saying to the notion that the best way to fight a global pandemic is to really prioritize vaccination globally, ie so we don't get the developed world arguing the toss about precisely which vaccine should be given as 3rd and 4th jabs, and when, and should kids be done too, when large parts of the world haven't had 1st level basic protection for their most vulnerables.

    There's tons of terrific Covid punditry on here but there's also plenty of cockeyed illogical insularity.

    IMO :smile:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    OK, crucial SA hospital data incoming



  • BREAKING: Canada closes border to foreign travelers from South Africa and 6 other countries due to new COVID variant
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,078
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    All the Brexity areas will be deluged, so at least we can expect a successful Rejoin campaign.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
  • Snowing in the Toon

    Tee shirts on, then?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited November 2021

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    All the Brexity areas will be deluged, so at least we can expect a successful Rejoin campaign.
    The Peak District, most of the Midlands (furthest away from the sea) was staunch Leave.

    Of course it could also lead to either a surge in the populist right or a religious revival driven by African migrants, either way not good for left liberal atheists
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    edited November 2021

    BREAKING: Canada closes border to foreign travelers from South Africa and 6 other countries due to new COVID variant

    Canada would surely be restricting travellers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    Here it is



    "Mia Malan
    @miamalan
    Rudo Mathivha, head of clinical dpt, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital:

    1. Bara = seeing a change in the democratic profile of #COVID patients
    2. More young people with moderate/severe #COVID = hospitalised
    3. 65% of admissions = unvaccinated; 35% = partially vaccinated"


    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1464286066903552001?s=20

    Looks like - LOOKS LIKE - if you're fully vaxxed then you're OK

    But OMICRON is bad for the young and unvaxxed?

    Very very early data and so many questions but if this is true then we need vaxports, we need anything to get jabs into as many arms as possible, ASAP
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,078
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
  • Scott_xP said:

    glw said:

    Storm Arwen and the Omicron virus. Those are good names.

    I saw them at the students union in '93
    Why have we skipped Xi?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564

    Scott_xP said:

    glw said:

    Storm Arwen and the Omicron virus. Those are good names.

    I saw them at the students union in '93
    Why have we skipped Xi?
    The PRC nobbled the WHO?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Update on the case in Belgium. Unvaccinated and developed flu-like symptoms after being infected with Nu but NO WORSE symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt. NO other symptomatic individuals in their household. https://assets.uzleuven.be/files/2021-11/genomic_surveillance_update_211126.pdf

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464270976410173441?s=20

    Which is interesting - because Delta went through households like a dose of salts....

    It's almost like there's a bunch of panic, and no actual evidence that the new variant is meaningfully worse
    I've noted something of an overlap between those panicking and those with a prior Covid record of muscular 'we just gotta get on with things and live with it' sentiment.
    My general self-imposed rule is to neither whoop with delight nor plunge into gloom until a week's data is consistent. What we can say on that basisis that things are tight in hospitals but have eased slightly, cases are still high but plateaued, death rate is low. We can't say anything sensible, positive or otherwise, about the South African variant yet.
    That's right. For Delta we are as we were and on Omi we await data on how bad it is and whether it beats our vaccines. Hopefully it won't be a worst case outcome. I guess one good thing about getting really really worried before knowing the facts is that if the facts come in relatively benign you get a nice blast of relief and the current not brilliant situation looks a bit rosier.
    No, NPXMP is being too blase about OMICRON, THE KING OF VIRUSES

    We do know more now, and we know enough to be worried (but not hysterical, heaven forbid). Omicron is almost certainly a negative development. We just don't know how negative, yet
    Yes, it makes sense to be worried. I am worried. This is a cloud in a sky that was clearing. I've been certain for a while we'd be pretty much out of this by next Feb but I can't get that feeling back until the situation with Omicron is clarified, in particular that we don't need a new vaccine. Fingers and toes crossed.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    edited November 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    glw said:

    Storm Arwen and the Omicron virus. Those are good names.

    I saw them at the students union in '93
    Why have we skipped Xi?
    I am guessing a wimpish Don't let's troll Beijing sort of thought process. Or because Boris would read it from his notes as variant eleven.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735

    Scott_xP said:

    glw said:

    Storm Arwen and the Omicron virus. Those are good names.

    I saw them at the students union in '93
    Why have we skipped Xi?
    Why would you want to casually associate such an awful, evil, globe-changing horror with a simple virus like Covid-19?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Update on the case in Belgium. Unvaccinated and developed flu-like symptoms after being infected with Nu but NO WORSE symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt. NO other symptomatic individuals in their household. https://assets.uzleuven.be/files/2021-11/genomic_surveillance_update_211126.pdf

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464270976410173441?s=20

    Which is interesting - because Delta went through households like a dose of salts....

    It's almost like there's a bunch of panic, and no actual evidence that the new variant is meaningfully worse
    I've noted something of an overlap between those panicking and those with a prior Covid record of muscular 'we just gotta get on with things and live with it' sentiment.
    My general self-imposed rule is to neither whoop with delight nor plunge into gloom until a week's data is consistent. What we can say on that basisis that things are tight in hospitals but have eased slightly, cases are still high but plateaued, death rate is low. We can't say anything sensible, positive or otherwise, about the South African variant yet.
    That's right. For Delta we are as we were and on Omi we await data on how bad it is and whether it beats our vaccines. Hopefully it won't be a worst case outcome. I guess one good thing about getting really really worried before knowing the facts is that if the facts come in relatively benign you get a nice blast of relief and the current not brilliant situation looks a bit rosier.
    No, NPXMP is being too blase about OMICRON, THE KING OF VIRUSES

    We do know more now, and we know enough to be worried (but not hysterical, heaven forbid). Omicron is almost certainly a negative development. We just don't know how negative, yet
    Yes, it makes sense to be worried. I am worried. This is a cloud in a sky that was clearing. I've been certain for a while we'd be pretty much out of this by next Feb but I can't get that feeling back until the situation with Omicron is clarified, in particular that we don't need a new vaccine. Fingers and toes crossed.
    See that SA hospital data below. It's very meagre, but hey, it's something to clutch. It looks like the vaccines still work
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    darkage said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    And then this:



    "Ryan Imgrund
    @imgrund
    BREAKING NEWS The effective reproduction number of the B.1.1.529 variant first found in Gauteng Province, South Africa is 1.94.

    R indicated something may have been awry back on October 29th.

    An Rt of 1.94 corresponds to a quadrupling of cases in just six days."


    https://twitter.com/imgrund/status/1464278502656598020?s=20


    We may just luck out and this variant will be extremely infectious, but relatively mild, and the whole fucking kerfuffle finally fizzles out, as new SuperMild NuNu outcompetes its nastier but less viral peers

    I for one shall say a prayer to Gaia

    An Rt of 1.94 is tiny (actually lower than original COVID), Delta has an Rt of 6.5, for example. Is there any further information?
    I'm trying to work out what he means by "effective reproduction number" - presumably it is not pure R, but some kind of R in the real world, where there is some immunity and mitigation?

    I'm sure I could pass a GCSE in epidemiology now. But not an A Level
    R of 1.94 in a fully vaccinated population would imply a high level of immunity escape, in a poorly vaccinated population it would be around the same Rt as Delta, maybe a bit higher at Rt 8-9 which is not a disaster, at least not for a country like the UK where there are 51m people with some level of vaccination and a further 8-10m with natural immunity.
    Guy on Twitter reckons this data implies that Nu's R0 is close to measles: R16

    You need 95% immunity to suppress measles, we won't get that until we've all got the Nunu, it will infect everyone vulnerable very fast

    Still not a disaster if it is not severe, indeed possibly the end of the pandemic, as you have said
    "Guy on Twitter reckons..."

    Hmmm...
    Actually some of the smartest and quickest information often comes from quite random people in the Twittersphere: geeks at home crunching numbers, random scientists in a lunchbreak, someone with inside knowledge who decides to vent.

    If you rely entirely on blue tick authorities you soon end up in an echo chamber and an info bubble. You NEED the random odd opinions from all quarters. Even people with 5 followers can produce startling insights.

    The trick is knowing how to filter them, however. To ignore the genuinely mad stuff. Not always easy.
    This is exactly the challenge on PB too. If you get the knack of screening out the stuff that is bad and wrong and just run with the stuff that is good and right you end up sitting pretty. Prettier than you would have sat if you hadn't stopped by in the first place.
    Indeed - looking back through the comments a poster actually raised the question of a new variant on November 21st.
    Sensing that was you?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    glw said:

    Storm Arwen and the Omicron virus. Those are good names.

    I saw them at the students union in '93
    Why have we skipped Xi?
    Why would you want to casually associate such an awful, evil, globe-changing horror with a simple virus like Covid-19?
    Given we only got into this naming convention because the powers that be were concerned countries were getting stigmatised by association. Clearly nobody thought ahead when they came up with the Greek alphabet naming fudge.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    Leon said:

    Here it is



    "Mia Malan
    @miamalan
    Rudo Mathivha, head of clinical dpt, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital:

    1. Bara = seeing a change in the democratic profile of #COVID patients
    2. More young people with moderate/severe #COVID = hospitalised
    3. 65% of admissions = unvaccinated; 35% = partially vaccinated"


    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1464286066903552001?s=20

    Looks like - LOOKS LIKE - if you're fully vaxxed then you're OK

    But OMICRON is bad for the young and unvaxxed?

    Very very early data and so many questions but if this is true then we need vaxports, we need anything to get jabs into as many arms as possible, ASAP

    So if you're fully vaxxed and boosted you are effectively immortal? I mean, 65 plus 35 doesn't leave a lot of unclaimed real estate
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Here it is



    "Mia Malan
    @miamalan
    Rudo Mathivha, head of clinical dpt, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital:

    1. Bara = seeing a change in the democratic profile of #COVID patients
    2. More young people with moderate/severe #COVID = hospitalised
    3. 65% of admissions = unvaccinated; 35% = partially vaccinated"


    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1464286066903552001?s=20

    Looks like - LOOKS LIKE - if you're fully vaxxed then you're OK

    But OMICRON is bad for the young and unvaxxed?

    Very very early data and so many questions but if this is true then we need vaxports, we need anything to get jabs into as many arms as possible, ASAP

    So if you're fully vaxxed and boosted you are effectively immortal? I mean, 65 plus 35 doesn't leave a lot of unclaimed real estate
    Can I have a 4th jab just in case....
  • Any sign of everybody favourite zero covidians appearing on the media demanding full metal plan Z full lockdown?
  • Omicron is an anagram for moronic...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,076
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Here it is



    "Mia Malan
    @miamalan
    Rudo Mathivha, head of clinical dpt, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital:

    1. Bara = seeing a change in the democratic profile of #COVID patients
    2. More young people with moderate/severe #COVID = hospitalised
    3. 65% of admissions = unvaccinated; 35% = partially vaccinated"


    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1464286066903552001?s=20

    Looks like - LOOKS LIKE - if you're fully vaxxed then you're OK

    But OMICRON is bad for the young and unvaxxed?

    Very very early data and so many questions but if this is true then we need vaxports, we need anything to get jabs into as many arms as possible, ASAP

    So if you're fully vaxxed and boosted you are effectively immortal? I mean, 65 plus 35 doesn't leave a lot of unclaimed real estate
    What that data doesn't tell is is it a more severe illness, and is it more contagious for the fully vaxxed? That is key for us.
    If the answer to both is yes, then we will see large numbers off work.
    Which will hit Christmas and the economy.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    That sounds rather menacing
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Here it is



    "Mia Malan
    @miamalan
    Rudo Mathivha, head of clinical dpt, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital:

    1. Bara = seeing a change in the democratic profile of #COVID patients
    2. More young people with moderate/severe #COVID = hospitalised
    3. 65% of admissions = unvaccinated; 35% = partially vaccinated"


    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1464286066903552001?s=20

    Looks like - LOOKS LIKE - if you're fully vaxxed then you're OK

    But OMICRON is bad for the young and unvaxxed?

    Very very early data and so many questions but if this is true then we need vaxports, we need anything to get jabs into as many arms as possible, ASAP

    So if you're fully vaxxed and boosted you are effectively immortal? I mean, 65 plus 35 doesn't leave a lot of unclaimed real estate
    Yep. 0% fully vaxxed is the implication

    This is just one hospital so the sample size is ludicrously tiny, but that's never stopped PB before

    It's great news if the vaccines are still super protective, but worrying that reinfection is an issue. Every single country must jab as quick as possible. We need renewed urgency, we need vaxports in the UK, we may all end up requiring mandatory jabs. Let's hope not, because that would be horrible
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,284
    Wait what, I'm sure when I left work the virus was Νν, now it's Οο and why have we skipped Ξξ ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Wait what, I'm sure when I left work the virus was Νν, now it's Οο and why have we skipped Ξξ ?

    Its the nu nu, not Xi, Omicron....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,612
    edited November 2021
    “We don’t want people to panic. This is why researchers are doing this work,” @mvankerkhove said. "Quite frankly if the studies come back [and there's less/no cause for concern] we'll reclassify it as a VOI."

    https://twitter.com/donatopmancini/status/1464306083787329538?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited November 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    That sounds rather menacing
    No, just reality.

    If there failed to be effective control of boat crossings then the only open border Remainers left would be in inner London and a few university towns and cities
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,076
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    That sounds rather menacing
    No, just reality.

    If there failed to be effective control of boat crossings then the only open border Remainers left would be in inner London and a few university towns and cities
    Remainer does not equal open borders.
  • Prof John Edmunds, a member of the UK's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) which advises the government, says the new variant, B.1.1.529, is a "huge worry" and could escape current Covid vaccines.

    "The molecular data is extremely worrying...[it] would point to that perhaps this thing might be able to evade the immune response," he tells BBC Radio 4's PM programme.

    Asked if the new variant could be resistant to current vaccines, Edmunds - an infectious diseases expert at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine - confirms this is scientists' "great fear" but it is not yet known to what extent the variant might be able to do so.

    "Our fears are it would do so to a large extent," he adds.

    Citing cases of the new variant in Belgium and Israel, Prof Edmunds warns the new variant will reach the UK and calls on the government to be prepared to take extra action for when it does.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    "BREAKING: the White House is restricting travel from South Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Lesotho, Eswatini, Mozambique, and Malawi -- starting Monday -- due to concerning new covid variant. UK & other European countries took same action today"
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    Are you sure the upcoming generation will go right? That’s not what my grandchildren tell me.

    They regard me as just about Left of centre. Which is slightly upsetting TBH!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    That sounds rather menacing
    No, just reality.

    If there failed to be effective control of boat crossings then the only open border Remainers left would be in inner London and a few university towns and cities
    Remainer does not equal open borders.
    Though quite how the EU would survive with a President Le Pen and PM Salvini is open to question, it would certainly not be the Federal EU it is heading for now
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735

    Prof John Edmunds, a member of the UK's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) which advises the government, says the new variant, B.1.1.529, is a "huge worry" and could escape current Covid vaccines.

    "The molecular data is extremely worrying...[it] would point to that perhaps this thing might be able to evade the immune response," he tells BBC Radio 4's PM programme.

    Asked if the new variant could be resistant to current vaccines, Edmunds - an infectious diseases expert at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine - confirms this is scientists' "great fear" but it is not yet known to what extent the variant might be able to do so.

    "Our fears are it would do so to a large extent," he adds.

    Citing cases of the new variant in Belgium and Israel, Prof Edmunds warns the new variant will reach the UK and calls on the government to be prepared to take extra action for when it does.

    Ah, shit. That sounds REALLY bad

    OK I'm going to the fucking gym and then I'm having an enormous G&T
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Update on the case in Belgium. Unvaccinated and developed flu-like symptoms after being infected with Nu but NO WORSE symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt. NO other symptomatic individuals in their household. https://assets.uzleuven.be/files/2021-11/genomic_surveillance_update_211126.pdf

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464270976410173441?s=20

    Which is interesting - because Delta went through households like a dose of salts....

    It's almost like there's a bunch of panic, and no actual evidence that the new variant is meaningfully worse
    I've noted something of an overlap between those panicking and those with a prior Covid record of muscular 'we just gotta get on with things and live with it' sentiment.
    My general self-imposed rule is to neither whoop with delight nor plunge into gloom until a week's data is consistent. What we can say on that basisis that things are tight in hospitals but have eased slightly, cases are still high but plateaued, death rate is low. We can't say anything sensible, positive or otherwise, about the South African variant yet.
    That's right. For Delta we are as we were and on Omi we await data on how bad it is and whether it beats our vaccines. Hopefully it won't be a worst case outcome. I guess one good thing about getting really really worried before knowing the facts is that if the facts come in relatively benign you get a nice blast of relief and the current not brilliant situation looks a bit rosier.
    No, NPXMP is being too blase about OMICRON, THE KING OF VIRUSES

    We do know more now, and we know enough to be worried (but not hysterical, heaven forbid). Omicron is almost certainly a negative development. We just don't know how negative, yet
    Yes, it makes sense to be worried. I am worried. This is a cloud in a sky that was clearing. I've been certain for a while we'd be pretty much out of this by next Feb but I can't get that feeling back until the situation with Omicron is clarified, in particular that we don't need a new vaccine. Fingers and toes crossed.
    See that SA hospital data below. It's very meagre, but hey, it's something to clutch. It looks like the vaccines still work
    Well that's the main thing. Great. It's off to Joburg for me. Happening place, I understand.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    All the Brexity areas will be deluged, so at least we can expect a successful Rejoin campaign.
    The Peak District, most of the Midlands (furthest away from the sea) was staunch Leave.

    Of course it could also lead to either a surge in the populist right or a religious revival driven by African migrants, either way not good for left liberal atheists
    atheists?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564

    Prof John Edmunds, a member of the UK's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) which advises the government, says the new variant, B.1.1.529, is a "huge worry" and could escape current Covid vaccines.

    "The molecular data is extremely worrying...[it] would point to that perhaps this thing might be able to evade the immune response," he tells BBC Radio 4's PM programme.

    Asked if the new variant could be resistant to current vaccines, Edmunds - an infectious diseases expert at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine - confirms this is scientists' "great fear" but it is not yet known to what extent the variant might be able to do so.

    "Our fears are it would do so to a large extent," he adds.

    Citing cases of the new variant in Belgium and Israel, Prof Edmunds warns the new variant will reach the UK and calls on the government to be prepared to take extra action for when it does.

    "extra action"... if it evades the vaccine it is back to square one.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    Any sign of everybody favourite zero covidians appearing on the media demanding full metal plan Z full lockdown?

    But isn't shutting borders the international equivalent of that futile creed?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Here it is



    "Mia Malan
    @miamalan
    Rudo Mathivha, head of clinical dpt, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital:

    1. Bara = seeing a change in the democratic profile of #COVID patients
    2. More young people with moderate/severe #COVID = hospitalised
    3. 65% of admissions = unvaccinated; 35% = partially vaccinated"


    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1464286066903552001?s=20

    Looks like - LOOKS LIKE - if you're fully vaxxed then you're OK

    But OMICRON is bad for the young and unvaxxed?

    Very very early data and so many questions but if this is true then we need vaxports, we need anything to get jabs into as many arms as possible, ASAP

    So if you're fully vaxxed and boosted you are effectively immortal? I mean, 65 plus 35 doesn't leave a lot of unclaimed real estate
    Can I have a 4th jab just in case....
    NB vaxxed in ZA probably means vaxxed with something other than AZ (prob Johnson & Johnson), but it's complicated

    https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1949
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Here it is



    "Mia Malan
    @miamalan
    Rudo Mathivha, head of clinical dpt, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital:

    1. Bara = seeing a change in the democratic profile of #COVID patients
    2. More young people with moderate/severe #COVID = hospitalised
    3. 65% of admissions = unvaccinated; 35% = partially vaccinated"


    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1464286066903552001?s=20

    Looks like - LOOKS LIKE - if you're fully vaxxed then you're OK

    But OMICRON is bad for the young and unvaxxed?

    Very very early data and so many questions but if this is true then we need vaxports, we need anything to get jabs into as many arms as possible, ASAP

    So if you're fully vaxxed and boosted you are effectively immortal? I mean, 65 plus 35 doesn't leave a lot of unclaimed real estate
    Yep. 0% fully vaxxed is the implication

    This is just one hospital so the sample size is ludicrously tiny, but that's never stopped PB before

    It's great news if the vaccines are still super protective, but worrying that reinfection is an issue. Every single country must jab as quick as possible. We need renewed urgency, we need vaxports in the UK, we may all end up requiring mandatory jabs. Let's hope not, because that would be horrible
    So panic over?

    Too late now.
    I told my boss to stuff his job, and am now submerged in a cubic tonne of hookers and cocaine.

    I should have know better than to trust PB’s resident knicker-wetters!
    What did you do with the money you wasted?

    {The ghost of George Best has entered the chat}
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited November 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    Are you sure the upcoming generation will go right? That’s not what my grandchildren tell me.

    They regard me as just about Left of centre. Which is slightly upsetting TBH!
    Under 25s have voted Labour at every general election since 1987, they always get more conservative as they get older
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    One darkly funny thing is to poke self described progressives and find how near the surface their inner fascist is.

    The response to the "invasion" of the Polish border by "weaponised refugees" has been interesting, to say the least.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 1,506

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    I understood applying for asylum to any countries embassy was part of their legitimate purpose
    Yes, but requiring folk to apply to somebody else's isn't.
    And since the French take 4 times the number we do, it wouldn't help us to be reciprocal.
    Still. Shout the slogans even louder across the Channel. That should sort it.
    Re your last sentence the correct response is a plague on both your houses
    What should we do Big G?
    To be honest I really do not know

    However, it does look like the EU itself is becoming involved due to concerns at the Belarus- Poland border and apparently a large number of migrants seeking to move through that border to the channel coast to cross to the UK

    As far as Boris and Macron are concerned they are as bad as each other
    Spot on Big G. Boris and Macron bad as each other.

    The first way of looking at Boris letter is, if issue other way round so these demands came from sneaky Macron to you, would you say yes, accept them all just like that? And as centre ground voters we have to ask, are they proposals that actually solve the problem? or meant to cleverly shift who UK voters blame for problem without actually solving it? I’m still thinking about those answers to be honest with you, until you said that. In fact to add the next obvious line on what you said, no wonder people are dying.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    CH4 news have just had an SA virologist on. Great opp to hear from the horse's mouth. Dimmed the lights, turned up the volume, leant forward, ears and eyes pricked ... couldn't get more than one word in four due to his super heavy Afrikaner accent. Buggardy!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,223
    Most impressive French spokeswoman on BBC News. It really is time this country rid itself of this quite dreadful Prime Minister and Home Secretary. They are well beyond embarrassing.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 1,562
    RobD said:

    Prof John Edmunds, a member of the UK's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) which advises the government, says the new variant, B.1.1.529, is a "huge worry" and could escape current Covid vaccines.

    "The molecular data is extremely worrying...[it] would point to that perhaps this thing might be able to evade the immune response," he tells BBC Radio 4's PM programme.

    Asked if the new variant could be resistant to current vaccines, Edmunds - an infectious diseases expert at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine - confirms this is scientists' "great fear" but it is not yet known to what extent the variant might be able to do so.

    "Our fears are it would do so to a large extent," he adds.

    Citing cases of the new variant in Belgium and Israel, Prof Edmunds warns the new variant will reach the UK and calls on the government to be prepared to take extra action for when it does.

    "extra action"... if it evades the vaccine it is back to square one.
    It won't. If I'm remembering his past record of pronouncements correctly, Prof Edmunds is not one of the hardcore Michie-type iSAGE health fascists by any means, but he is something of a pessimist and a lockdown hawk, which doesn't always match the reality of the situation.

    Again, Covid-19 is a bag of genes not a magic particle: its ability to mutate to cause more trouble is finite, and it's not going to suddenly transform into a completely new disease and reset the pandemic clock to zero.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 1,506

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    I went out shopping today and everything is normal out there. Reading this thread you would think it’s Zombie Apocalypse! 🧟‍♂️
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    Are you sure the upcoming generation will go right? That’s not what my grandchildren tell me.

    They regard me as just about Left of centre. Which is slightly upsetting TBH!
    Under 25s have voted Labour at every general election since 1987, they always get more conservative as they get older
    While I take your point, the majority of my voting grandchildren are over 25, and show no sign of changing their opinions.
  • Roger said:

    Most impressive French spokeswoman on BBC News. It really is time this country rid itself of this quite dreadful Prime Minister and Home Secretary. They are well beyond embarrassing.

    Macron and Boris are equally dreadful and both are embarrassing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited November 2021
    Roger said:

    Most impressive French spokeswoman on BBC News. It really is time this country rid itself of this quite dreadful Prime Minister and Home Secretary. They are well beyond embarrassing.

    Given 45% of French voters are about to vote for Le Pen in the runoff next year in the latest poll, ie even more than the 43% Boris got in 2019, we don't need lectures from the liberal French elite about how unsophisticated and populist our PM is

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1464246217542619141?s=20
  • Any sign of everybody favourite zero covidians appearing on the media demanding full metal plan Z full lockdown?

    Relatively calm so far for Scotland's favourite zerocovidian:



    Prof. Devi Sridhar
    @devisridhar
    ·
    5h
    Please don't be stressed out about the new variant. We're still waiting on more info & same steps to avoid COVID. Get vaccinated (& boosted), if you're going to social/work events ask that everyone has done a negative home test (LFT), & wear masks in crowded/indoor spaces.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968

    Roger said:

    Most impressive French spokeswoman on BBC News. It really is time this country rid itself of this quite dreadful Prime Minister and Home Secretary. They are well beyond embarrassing.

    Macron and Boris are equally dreadful and both are embarrassing
    (Boasting) Our PM is more embarrassing than your President!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 1,562
    Meanwhile, the Netherlands continues its progressive collapse into lockdown. Bars, restaurants and most shops have to close at 5pm from Sunday, which will effectively wreck their hospitality trade all over again.

    I've just read this in the summary feed on the Beeb so I don't know what support is being offered, but presumably a lot of these businesses are going to need Government handouts again or they'll collapse, especially since I think we can assume that this is likely to end up in a full lockdown until at least March.

    We know from last Winter's experience how long it takes to get out of the lockdown trap once it's been sprung.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    Roger said:

    Most impressive French spokeswoman on BBC News. It really is time this country rid itself of this quite dreadful Prime Minister and Home Secretary. They are well beyond embarrassing.

    Meanwhile in Europe:

    https://www.ilmessaggero.it/video/il_volo_delle_frecce_tricolori_dopo_la_firma_trattato_quirinale-6346636.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited November 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    Are you sure the upcoming generation will go right? That’s not what my grandchildren tell me.

    They regard me as just about Left of centre. Which is slightly upsetting TBH!
    Under 25s have voted Labour at every general election since 1987, they always get more conservative as they get older
    While I take your point, the majority of my voting grandchildren are over 25, and show no sign of changing their opinions.
    Exlcuding the fact you are obviously a leftwing family, how many are homeowners? Generally most people start voting Conservative once they get a mortgage and start the process of home ownership.

    Certainly the Tories have won home owners with a mortgage at every general election excluding those Blair won.

    Are they graduates? If so they will also be less likely to vote for the populist right than the working class and non graduate lower middle class, even amongst the young
  • I am a celebrity cancelled for the first time tonight and I am not surprised in view of the howling NNW gale that is due to intensify and is dangerous

    The castle is 8 miles from us and within half a mile of our daughter and her family
  • Roger said:

    Most impressive French spokeswoman on BBC News. It really is time this country rid itself of this quite dreadful Prime Minister and Home Secretary. They are well beyond embarrassing.

    Macron and Boris are equally dreadful and both are embarrassing
    Thank goodness you could only vote for one of them otherwise the embarrassment would be excruciating.
  • pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, the Netherlands continues its progressive collapse into lockdown. Bars, restaurants and most shops have to close at 5pm from Sunday, which will effectively wreck their hospitality trade all over again.

    I've just read this in the summary feed on the Beeb so I don't know what support is being offered, but presumably a lot of these businesses are going to need Government handouts again or they'll collapse, especially since I think we can assume that this is likely to end up in a full lockdown until at least March.

    We know from last Winter's experience how long it takes to get out of the lockdown trap once it's been sprung.

    The lights are going out all over europe. Who knows when they will be lit again.
  • Roger said:

    Most impressive French spokeswoman on BBC News. It really is time this country rid itself of this quite dreadful Prime Minister and Home Secretary. They are well beyond embarrassing.

    Macron and Boris are equally dreadful and both are embarrassing
    (Boasting) Our PM is more embarrassing than your President!
    They are equals
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    Are you sure the upcoming generation will go right? That’s not what my grandchildren tell me.

    They regard me as just about Left of centre. Which is slightly upsetting TBH!
    Under 25s have voted Labour at every general election since 1987, they always get more conservative as they get older
    While I take your point, the majority of my voting grandchildren are over 25, and show no sign of changing their opinions.
    Exlcuding the fact you are obviously a leftwing family, how many are homeowners? Generally most people start voting Conservative once they get a mortgage and start the process of home ownership.

    Certainly the Tories have won home owners with a mortgage at every general election excluding those Blair won.

    Are they graduates? If so they will also be less likely to vote for the populist right than the working class and lower middle class, even amongst the young
    Homeowners, graduates and work in the public sector. Tick all your negative boxes I suppose!
  • Meanwhile, in Bexley, people are apparently worried about losing their boilers...


    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1464252935093854211
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,327
    currently zero double vaccinated patients in hospital with this new variant in South Africa - considering they've got 14m fully vaccinated ir's a decent sample size which bodes pretty well that there isn't any sort of full on vaccine escape here.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801

    Roger said:

    Most impressive French spokeswoman on BBC News. It really is time this country rid itself of this quite dreadful Prime Minister and Home Secretary. They are well beyond embarrassing.

    Macron and Boris are equally dreadful and both are embarrassing
    (Boasting) Our PM is more embarrassing than your President!
    They are equals
    No, they are quite different.

    Macron is quasi-ineffective, after all.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529

    I am a celebrity cancelled for the first time tonight and I am not surprised in view of the howling NNW gale that is due to intensify and is dangerous

    The castle is 8 miles from us and within half a mile of our daughter and her family

    Nothing of value was lost
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    I am a celebrity cancelled for the first time tonight and I am not surprised in view of the howling NNW gale that is due to intensify and is dangerous

    The castle is 8 miles from us and within half a mile of our daughter and her family

    And Madeley out having been immersed in a container of rotten fish and fallen ill.
  • maaarsh said:

    currently zero double vaccinated patients in hospital with this new variant in South Africa - considering they've got 14m fully vaccinated ir's a decent sample size which bodes pretty well that there isn't any sort of full on vaccine escape here.

    As I can't face another bloody lockdown in Jan/Feb 2022, I am really, really hoping you are right.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529

    maaarsh said:

    currently zero double vaccinated patients in hospital with this new variant in South Africa - considering they've got 14m fully vaccinated ir's a decent sample size which bodes pretty well that there isn't any sort of full on vaccine escape here.

    As I can't face another bloody lockdown in Jan/Feb 2022, I am really, really hoping you are right.
    Nah we've had enough lockdowns. We're just going to have to deal with it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited November 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    Are you sure the upcoming generation will go right? That’s not what my grandchildren tell me.

    They regard me as just about Left of centre. Which is slightly upsetting TBH!
    Under 25s have voted Labour at every general election since 1987, they always get more conservative as they get older
    While I take your point, the majority of my voting grandchildren are over 25, and show no sign of changing their opinions.
    Exlcuding the fact you are obviously a leftwing family, how many are homeowners? Generally most people start voting Conservative once they get a mortgage and start the process of home ownership.

    Certainly the Tories have won home owners with a mortgage at every general election excluding those Blair won.

    Are they graduates? If so they will also be less likely to vote for the populist right than the working class and lower middle class, even amongst the young
    Homeowners, graduates and work in the public sector. Tick all your negative boxes I suppose!
    They work in the public sector and are graduates, there you go. On that basis they would be 66% likely to vote Labour not Tory, even despite being homeowners.

    The Tories lost public sector workers even in 2015 and 2019 when they won majorities overall.

    The public sector almost always votes mainly Labour, small businesspeople almost always vote mainly Tory, the private sector leans Tory, though it did vote for Blair.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    I went out shopping today and everything is normal out there. Reading this thread you would think it’s Zombie Apocalypse! 🧟‍♂️
    Check in the shop windows, the reflections show the lizard men in the people costumes in their true form.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    One darkly funny thing is to poke self described progressives and find how near the surface their inner fascist is.

    The response to the "invasion" of the Polish border by "weaponised refugees" has been interesting, to say the least.
    Have you been poking the woke again and they were no match for your untamed wit?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 1,562

    maaarsh said:

    currently zero double vaccinated patients in hospital with this new variant in South Africa - considering they've got 14m fully vaccinated ir's a decent sample size which bodes pretty well that there isn't any sort of full on vaccine escape here.

    As I can't face another bloody lockdown in Jan/Feb 2022, I am really, really hoping you are right.
    Fear not, I think it most unlikely that things will get that bad. And in the unlikely event that there's another stay at home order, you may feel free to ignore it if you wish. Government can cricket bat poor businesses, but no mechanism for widespread and effective enforcement for private citizens exists.
  • kinabalu said:

    I am a celebrity cancelled for the first time tonight and I am not surprised in view of the howling NNW gale that is due to intensify and is dangerous

    The castle is 8 miles from us and within half a mile of our daughter and her family

    And Madeley out having been immersed in a container of rotten fish and fallen ill.
    The local news suggest it wasn't that offal but that he ate a flapjack of the floor when in his group

    Anyway it is not our cup of tea, but it has done wonders for the castle and Abergele
  • Calm down thread...

    I include myself here.


    Robert Dingwall
    @rwjdingwall
    ·
    1h
    WHO has assigned the label omicron rather than nu - but otherwise this is written with Chise's customary authority.


    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1464222680731820043
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, the Netherlands continues its progressive collapse into lockdown. Bars, restaurants and most shops have to close at 5pm from Sunday, which will effectively wreck their hospitality trade all over again.

    I've just read this in the summary feed on the Beeb so I don't know what support is being offered, but presumably a lot of these businesses are going to need Government handouts again or they'll collapse, especially since I think we can assume that this is likely to end up in a full lockdown until at least March.

    We know from last Winter's experience how long it takes to get out of the lockdown trap once it's been sprung.

    The lights are going out all over europe. Who knows when they will be lit again.
    Next Feb, I'd say, so long as Omi doesn't evade the vaccines.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    Ironic

    @JoeBiden

    Trump further diminished the U.S. in the eyes of the world by expanding his travel ban. This new “African Ban,” is designed to make it harder for black and brown people to immigrate to the United States. It’s a disgrace, and we cannot let him succeed.

    02/02/2020”

    https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1223807268703043588?s=21
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,327
    Leon said:

    Ironic

    @JoeBiden

    Trump further diminished the U.S. in the eyes of the world by expanding his travel ban. This new “African Ban,” is designed to make it harder for black and brown people to immigrate to the United States. It’s a disgrace, and we cannot let him succeed.

    02/02/2020”

    https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1223807268703043588?s=21

    Unless the people of Africa vote for Joe Biden, they ain't black.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,779
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    Are you sure the upcoming generation will go right? That’s not what my grandchildren tell me.

    They regard me as just about Left of centre. Which is slightly upsetting TBH!
    Under 25s have voted Labour at every general election since 1987, they always get more conservative as they get older
    While I take your point, the majority of my voting grandchildren are over 25, and show no sign of changing their opinions.
    Exlcuding the fact you are obviously a leftwing family, how many are homeowners? Generally most people start voting Conservative once they get a mortgage and start the process of home ownership.

    Certainly the Tories have won home owners with a mortgage at every general election excluding those Blair won.

    Are they graduates? If so they will also be less likely to vote for the populist right than the working class and non graduate lower middle class, even amongst the young
    I seem to fail that test spectacularly. I come from a family who are right of Atilla the Hun, I own 2 properties, I am so over 25 and I get more radical the older I get.

  • John Roberts
    @john_actuary
    OK, I get why the WHO decided against nu (too confusing, especially when the next new variant came along), but what has xi done to miss its moment of glory?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,621
    Covid in SA:

    Today 2828 cases

    up from 2465 yesterday

    up from 794 Friday last week

    a big increases but not the 'doubling every day' that was reported before.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-africa/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    One darkly funny thing is to poke self described progressives and find how near the surface their inner fascist is.

    The response to the "invasion" of the Polish border by "weaponised refugees" has been interesting, to say the least.
    Have you been poking the woke again and they were no match for your untamed wit?
    Just been trawling threads on Reddit etc. Was playing with some analysis tools - AI'ing the responses. Essentially, a lot of people who reacted in horror to the behaviour of the Greek government etc over boats arriving etc. are declaring that Defending Europe Is Vital when the matter of the Polish border comes up.

    The number of genuinely liberal people out there is actually quite small, I think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    edited November 2021
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile some candidates for French President such as Michel Barnier now saying Le Touquet agreement (whereby France polices UK external border in Calais) should be scrapped, and refugees allowed to go to the UK to apply there…

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1464289658951585799?s=20

    UK should ask all asylum seekers to attend their French embassies to be processed which would be interesting
    And if they say no?
    This is the problem with simple answers to complex problems.
    There aren't any.
    This is all going to end with about half-a-million migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies every year and none of them ever being deported. The dreams of the open borders lunatics being made flesh (except for the part where the occasional dinghy occupant drowns, at least until the inevitable court case forces the Government to buy them all tickets to come over on the Eurostar.)

    That'll all go down well in Hartlepool, I'm sure.
    Good job we took back control.
    Or maybe a slogan isn't sufficient?
    All of europe is going to get tough on migrants....if the climate change people are right there are over the next 3 or so decades 2 billion or so deplaced due to climate change....most of which will be heading towards europe from africa and the middle east. There was 28 countries in europe before we left....2 billion/28 is going to be about 71 million per country.....cant see any european country willing to take in anywhere like that number so the borders will be militarised and the migrants repulsed.
    If the worst climate change predictions are right, then part of low lying Europe eg the Netherlands, will disappear. Africa also will still have far more land than Europe even if it does get even hotter than it is now.

    Though yes uncontrolled immigration and boat crossings would lead to the populist right getting elected on the Continent sooner or later to enforce tighter borders.

    Although it might lead to a religious revival in western Europe, as Africans do tend to be more religious than western Europeans. The more western Europe has low birthrates and African migrants come to western Europe, the more we will shift away from secularism

    Much of Essex will go as well. You should make more of an effort to look for the upside.
    Most of Epping though is up a hill and protected by a forest.

    Much of London, especially the part nearest the Thames and the old docklands, would go before Epping does
    Any Brexity uplands will be seized by younger, fitter and frankly sexier Remainers, I’m afraid.

    You’re shit out of luck.
    There will be very few of those left given the surge in the populist right to control the boat crossings
    Are you sure the upcoming generation will go right? That’s not what my grandchildren tell me.

    They regard me as just about Left of centre. Which is slightly upsetting TBH!
    Under 25s have voted Labour at every general election since 1987, they always get more conservative as they get older
    While I take your point, the majority of my voting grandchildren are over 25, and show no sign of changing their opinions.
    Exlcuding the fact you are obviously a leftwing family, how many are homeowners? Generally most people start voting Conservative once they get a mortgage and start the process of home ownership.

    Certainly the Tories have won home owners with a mortgage at every general election excluding those Blair won.

    Are they graduates? If so they will also be less likely to vote for the populist right than the working class and non graduate lower middle class, even amongst the young
    I seem to fail that test spectacularly. I come from a family who are right of Atilla the Hun, I own 2 properties, I am so over 25 and I get more radical the older I get.
    So do I, I am a graduate who works in the 3rd sector, not the private sector or small business (although I do have a lease on a flat). I was also under 40 in 2019 and I voted Remain in 2016 (even if I respected the Brexit vote).

    Statistically I would probably have voted Labour or LD in 2019 but we are talking averages
This discussion has been closed.