Johnson’s Nightmare November continues with another bad poll – politicalbetting.com

IanB2 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but you are both saying the same thing, and I agree it seems most unlikely.

The report says the journey time will go from 83 minutes to 55 minutes, so a saving of 28 minutes.

But in a response to Rachel Maskell Shapps misspoke and said the total journey time will take in total 28 minutes.

The 55 minutes journey is bollocks, as as anyone who has used that route.

JohnLilburne said:

Philip_Thompson said:

JohnLilburne said:

rcs1000 said:

Sean_F said:

rcs1000 said:

The NYTimes is reporting that the Iraqi and Syrian migrants that Belorussia invited in are beginning to give up on getting to Poland and are now starting to claim asylum there instead.

The Minsk government has banned all flights from the Middle East in response.

Lukashenko will no doubt eliminate them.

There are quite a few there now - probably 10-15,000.

One word. Katyń.

Most individually shot in the back of the head, up to 7000 by one man, Valery Blokhin.

It's possible, the KGB has form and can just dig out the plan and repeat.

For a moment I thought that meant 7000 bullets in one man's head and thought that's a bit overkill can't have been much of a head left by the end.

Er no. It meant a butcher's apron, a suitcase of Walther Model 9s, and all-night shift

He came up as part of the research I did on my trip to Poland, Ukraine and Georgia in 2018. Somehow even more chilling than the wholesale slaughter at Auschwitz-Birkenau (which was a cold, grim place even in a warm September).

Although the worst place I have been in is probably the execution room in the basement of the former KGB (and Gestapo) HQ in Vilnius. (was the Genocide Museum although now renamed the Museum of Occupations and Resistance)

He has to be a candidate for most revolting man in the Soviet Union, although I think Laventriy Beria beats him by a nose.

Dear me.

This ‘plan’ is more moronic than something devised by the world’s biggest moron in a particularly moronic mood.

Mr. Boy, that did not end Alcibiades career, from memory.

CarlottaVance said:

The Government's plan for #NorthernPowerhouseRail. There is some new track, going about half way across the Pennines. (This also shows, as expected, that HS2 will go to Manchester)



https://twitter.com/jonwalker121/status/1461300460313362435?s=20

That new track seems to connect Warrington with Huddersfield. Ideal for a Thursday night mid-table RL clash in 2050.
But not for regional re-generation.
Also, why does the "upgrade" stop at Northallerton?

Ah well, Johnson lurching from one mistake to the other.

I’m glad the wheels are coming off. He’s never been held accountable for anything he’s done, and presumes he can get away with running a country in the same way.

dixiedean said:

CarlottaVance said:

The Government's plan for #NorthernPowerhouseRail. There is some new track, going about half way across the Pennines. (This also shows, as expected, that HS2 will go to Manchester)



https://twitter.com/jonwalker121/status/1461300460313362435?s=20

That new track seems to connect Warrington with Huddersfield. Ideal for a Thursday night mid-table RL clash in 2050.
But not for regional re-generation.
Also, why does the "upgrade" stop at Northallerton?

Northallerton is Rishi's train station, he lives a short distance from it.

eek said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but you are both saying the same thing, and I agree it seems most unlikely.

The report says the journey time will go from 83 minutes to 55 minutes, so a saving of 28 minutes.

But in a response to Rachel Maskell Shapps misspoke and said the total journey time will take in total 28 minutes.

The 55 minutes journey is bollocks, as as anyone who has used that route.

Let's take a step back

The current 83 minute journey time is complete bollox - and the number of pain points on the Leeds to Manchester journey are such that the 55 journey time is always going to be complete bollox unless a completely new line is constructed.

I remember getting regularly stuck near Mossley/Slaithwaite for over an hour.

Really frustrating as that's where my other half lives.

Most frustrating journey on that route, getting stuck at Stalybridge for an eternity, so close to Manchester but stuck.

swing_voter said:

dixiedean said:

CarlottaVance said:

The Government's plan for #NorthernPowerhouseRail. There is some new track, going about half way across the Pennines. (This also shows, as expected, that HS2 will go to Manchester)



https://twitter.com/jonwalker121/status/1461300460313362435?s=20

That new track seems to connect Warrington with Huddersfield. Ideal for a Thursday night mid-table RL clash in 2050.
But not for regional re-generation.
Also, why does the "upgrade" stop at Northallerton?

Northallerton is Rishi's train station, he lives a short distance from it.

Explains much.

Morris_Dancer said:

Remarkable nose dive in the Government's prospects just recently.

Reminds me of the Sicilian expedition the Athenians undertook during the Peloponnesian War.

I’m having a guess, the train journey was so slow, by the time they got there it was over?

mwadams said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

And trainLine.com won't quote you a journey time that fast, it seems.

Looking at my TPE calendar, the quickest is 90 minutes.

TheScreamingEagles said:

mwadams said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

And trainLine.com won't quote you a journey time that fast, it seems.

Looking at my TPE calendar, the quickest is 90 minutes.

Interesting fact. York to Manchester is roughly the same distance as Portsmouth to London.

Both trains take 90 minutes.

Feels a bit like a systems collapse. All these political mistakes or upsetting decisions perfectly survivable normally, but they are hitting all at once

I'm sure they'll rebound, but it's a moment like this true leadership quality will be shown.

Taz said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

mwadams said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

And trainLine.com won't quote you a journey time that fast, it seems.

Looking at my TPE calendar, the quickest is 90 minutes.

By the time Trans Pennine trains get to Durham Station, heading into Newcastle, they are invariably late as well. Never known them on time.

I wouldn't be planning to catch those long term - if and when the new ECML timetables arrive (no longer May 2022) half the current trains (already halved) are going - what's left are the trains to Liverpool.

rcs1000 said:

Fishing said:

Roger said:

The bad news for Johnson is that even a blind man on a galloping camel riding through Hartlepool now understands that for all his bonhomie he's a lying cheating crook.

The only thing standing between the Tories and oblivion is a Labour Party and leader which looks convincing.

But two, or maybe generously three, out of the last ten Labour leaders has been convincing as a PM, compared to perhaps six out of the last eight Conservative leaders in that time.

Labour has a habit of choosing duds.

I'd say Wilson, Callaghan, Smith and Blair, which makes four.

Yes I agree if you count Wilson. As it happens I was counting Harman as a non-convincing leader, who was an acting leader, which only takes us back to Callaghan. Though Labour never really chose her so on reflection I probably shouldn't have.

What a shambles. You can hardly see the screw ups for the screw ups atm. Johnson seems to be unravelling at a rate of knots, yet I find I'm taking no pleasure in it. It's the patriot in me, I suppose. When all's said and done I want the best for the UK. And the fact is, this bloke is our PM and quite likely to remain so for years, so I'd love to see him use this rocky period to reinvent himself. People do this sometimes so why not here. Let's see the facing of some hard truths then a reboot. Let's see a new Boris Johnson, one with integrity, grip and vision. Let's see a proper grown-up prime minister for what I like to think is a proper grown-up country. If I were advising him that's the 'tough love' message I'd give.

Setting aside the missing NPR and HS2E for a moment, lets consider what else isn't on here.

There will still be the need to squeeze intercity, inter-regional, local and freight services through Manchester - no mention at all of the Castlefield Corridor.

There will be more demand than ever on the southern ECML not that Leeds has been removed from HS2. Yet no mention at all of the bottlenecks at Welwyn or Huntingdon - Grantham.

Genuinely this does more harm than good. The need to increase capacity was the whole rationale for HS2 and NPR. By scrapping NPR and HS2E and trying to run faster trains on the existing lines they manage to reduce capacity still further.

This is courageously stupid.

kle4 said:

kjh said:

Just heard Heidi Allen on R4. Apparently at one election a ballot paper had an erect penis against her name and a flaccid penis against her LD opponents name. It was counted as a vote for her.

Now I have been at quite a few counts, sometimes as an agent, and there is no way a returning officer would do that. I am guessing the 3 of them were having a bit of fun considering the 1 vote didn't change anything.

I have been at many counts and penises are usually accepted. With no dissent from any party. Absolutely returning officers accept that sort of thing.

Guidance on what to accept is quite liberal, so listing 1 and 2 would often accept the vote for 1, when I'd think it unclear as they could be rating not ranking them. If erect penis is a tick and a flaccid one a cross itd pass muster with many returning officers as being clear in intent (the tick cross thing is accepted as people sometime mark the wrong box but make clear which one they intend, so it's not rejected as voting for more than you can - people often tick one and cross all the others).

I'd say that's not certain so dont accept but where it doesnt matter you are right people tend to let it through, so I'm sure the story is true

I'm sure the story is true.

I have no problem with a penis on a ballot paper (I have seen so many) but in this case there were two, one against each candidate and it was decided that the clear intention was by identifying the erect one. Now come on no returning officer should accept that except as a joke with the agents and candidates. It is definitely not clear what the intention was. Might be he was saying he fancied Heidi and not the LD (a man).

BlancheLivermore said:

rottenborough said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Labour Party member and a doctor, Gilbert House, has been suspended from the party for saying only women experience the menopause.

There's been talk in recent years about a male menopause. Maybe that's what the Labour party are thinking about?

Isn't it more that trans-men will experience the menopause?

It is all bollox, pardon the pun

It will be interesting to see polling on the cancellation of HS2E

It turns out that Dominic Cummings was basically running the show.

MoonRabbit said:

eek said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

By typically I assume they mean timetable. Reality at the moment is at least 95mins.

If I have a meeting in Manchester I schedule to arrive 90 minutes early because it's probably needed.

Why don’t you use zoom Eek? My friend puts black tape on the camera and does it in her camiknickers. And she sounds like proper in charge and everything.

Surely the essence of your meeting is, you tell them what to do and they have to do it or woe betide them.

Too many meetings. Too much travelling. Too many pleb wagon trains. Do I sound anti train?

Looking ahead, the motorways will be electric long before the railway wont they? That’s true isn’t it?

What has your post got to do with current journey times to Manchester,

As for your question - change management (especially when third parties are involved) means meeting people in person - a remote third party person telling someone how their job is about to change using computers they are often scared of goes down about as well as a Government Infrastructure announcement which hasn't been sanity checked by people who know railways.

So you visit them in person, you ask them for their issues (watching how they do their current job) and then ensure some of their points are included in the project. The result is that the awkward squad often become the chief cheerleaders for the new system because it contains things they know will make their life easier.

Now were I an employee I could probably do a few things without meeting them in person, but I suspect it actually wouldn't help that much.

Scott_xP said:

Speaking as an occasional friend of @BorisJohnson, also as a fellow journalist: in 45 years of civil service and then public reporting, the only worse prime minister I have seen is Silvio Berlusconi.
https://twitter.com/JohnGPeet/status/1461081436379926532

Trouble is that, even now, Silvio isn't that unpopular, despite everything that he's done.

Nationalist Populism may be a hopeless way to govern, but it's a damn good way of winning elections.

kinabalu said:

What a shambles. You can hardly see the screw ups for the screw ups atm. Johnson seems to be unravelling at a rate of knots, yet I find I'm taking no pleasure in it. It's the patriot in me, I suppose. When all's said and done I want the best for the UK. And the fact is, this bloke is our PM and quite likely to remain so for years, so I'd love to see him use this rocky period to reinvent himself. People do this sometimes so why not here. Let's see the facing of some hard truths then a reboot. Let's see a new Boris Johnson, one with integrity, grip and vision. Let's see a proper grown-up prime minister for what I like to think is a proper grown-up country. If I were advising him that's the 'tough love' message I'd give.

As a patriot who's probably overly bothered about our image abroad I am hoping the collapse comes fully, quickly and humiliatingly because I'd dearly love the rest of the world to stop conflating "Boris" with "Britain". We need to cut the knot, like - for a while at least - the USA did by turfing out Trump and electing Biden.

That doesn't require a change of government necessarily, it just needs a new leader (Rishi will do, Liz would not) who doesn't come across as a clown, seems morally upstanding and has a less antagonistic attitude to our neighbours particularly Ireland. Every time Britain is seen to be targeting Ireland the rest of the world thinks "there they go again".

Italy struggled to shake off the shadow of Berlusconi and he kept coming back. Our own Berlusconi needs to be more cleanly extricated from government.

So let him be gone and let's start rebuilding our global brand.

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

mwadams said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

And trainLine.com won't quote you a journey time that fast, it seems.

Looking at my TPE calendar, the quickest is 90 minutes.

Interesting fact. York to Manchester is roughly the same distance as Portsmouth to London.

Both trains take 90 minutes.

Portsmouth is a rather slow and tedious journey though, and suffers from the fact there are a large number of commuter stations on the route and the end of it is on an island with limited access. York-Manchester really ought to be quicker.

The MP for Rother Valley is delighted.

R4 WATO rail expert making the point that to increase capacity you need to take high speed trains off slow commuter lines - ie a dedicated HS line - the rationale for the London to Birmingham line. These “capacity increases” will simply shuffle pinch points.

MoonRabbit said:

eek said:

MoonRabbit said:

eek said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

By typically I assume they mean timetable. Reality at the moment is at least 95mins.

If I have a meeting in Manchester I schedule to arrive 90 minutes early because it's probably needed.

Why don’t you use zoom Eek? My friend puts black tape on the camera and does it in her camiknickers. And she sounds like proper in charge and everything.

Surely the essence of your meeting is, you tell them what to do and they have to do it or woe betide them.

Too many meetings. Too much travelling. Too many pleb wagon trains. Do I sound anti train?

Looking ahead, the motorways will be electric long before the railway wont they? That’s true isn’t it?

What has your post got to do with current journey times to Manchester,

As for your question - change management (especially when third parties are involved) means meeting people in person - a remote third party person telling someone how their job is about to change using computers they are often scared of goes down about as well as a Government Infrastructure announcement which hasn't been sanity checked by people who know railways.

So you visit them in person, you ask them for their issues (watching how they do their current job) and then ensure some of their points are included in the project. The result is that the awkward squad often become the chief cheerleaders for the new system because it contains things they know will make their life easier.

Now were I an employee I could probably do a few things without meeting them in person, but I suspect it actually wouldn't help that much.

I understand. That is a proper good answer. And good skills set you have, change management, getting the resistant voices to become cheerleaders in making the change.

But how much of other business travel overall is nugatory, and can’t go digital? I don’t want to come across rude, but it sounds old fashioned to want more rail network. Surely you should always look to adopt new culture than always continue in the same cozy way?

I want more railway because UK leisure travel is already at pre-covid levels and is going to continue getting busier.

And the reality is that business is personal - yes I can do stuff online but its far nicer to be doing it with people you have physically met and will meet again down the line.

JohnLilburne said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

mwadams said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

And trainLine.com won't quote you a journey time that fast, it seems.

Looking at my TPE calendar, the quickest is 90 minutes.

Interesting fact. York to Manchester is roughly the same distance as Portsmouth to London.

Both trains take 90 minutes.

Portsmouth is a rather slow and tedious journey though, and suffers from the fact there are a large number of commuter stations on the route and the end of it is on an island with limited access. York-Manchester really ought to be quicker.

Should it?

I'll tell you what I think is bad. Derby to Manchester - 55 miles - quickest train is 95 minutes with one change.

eek said:

MoonRabbit said:

eek said:

MoonRabbit said:

eek said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

By typically I assume they mean timetable. Reality at the moment is at least 95mins.

If I have a meeting in Manchester I schedule to arrive 90 minutes early because it's probably needed.

Why don’t you use zoom Eek? My friend puts black tape on the camera and does it in her camiknickers. And she sounds like proper in charge and everything.

Surely the essence of your meeting is, you tell them what to do and they have to do it or woe betide them.

Too many meetings. Too much travelling. Too many pleb wagon trains. Do I sound anti train?

Looking ahead, the motorways will be electric long before the railway wont they? That’s true isn’t it?

What has your post got to do with current journey times to Manchester,

As for your question - change management (especially when third parties are involved) means meeting people in person - a remote third party person telling someone how their job is about to change using computers they are often scared of goes down about as well as a Government Infrastructure announcement which hasn't been sanity checked by people who know railways.

So you visit them in person, you ask them for their issues (watching how they do their current job) and then ensure some of their points are included in the project. The result is that the awkward squad often become the chief cheerleaders for the new system because it contains things they know will make their life easier.

Now were I an employee I could probably do a few things without meeting them in person, but I suspect it actually wouldn't help that much.

I understand. That is a proper good answer. And good skills set you have, change management, getting the resistant voices to become cheerleaders in making the change.

But how much of other business travel overall is nugatory, and can’t go digital? I don’t want to come across rude, but it sounds old fashioned to want more rail network. Surely you should always look to adopt new culture than always continue in the same cozy way?

I want more railway because UK leisure travel is already at pre-covid levels and is going to continue getting busier.

And the reality is that business is personal - yes I can do stuff online but its far nicer to be doing it with people you have physically met and will meet again down the line.

Removing one high speed train from the old ECML, WCML or MML and putting it on HS2 provides paths for 3 commuter or freight trains.

The major failure from todays announcement is that those intercity trains will remain on the MML and ECML thus not enabling more freight and commuter services into the future.

Very short sighted.

I’m not sure this currently looks like a government heading toward a comfortable and overwhelming victory at the next election.

I know HYUFD will be along with the stats soon, but the leadership seems tone death at the moment.

Governments in further trouble if Labour can make the social care reform argument stick - that yet again working families lose out of 75% of their assets, against wealthy keeping theirs..

Scott_xP said:

Coventry MPs @zarahsultana and @TaiwoOwatemi have written to Boris Johnson about Transport Sec Grant Shapps opposing a vital Midlands factory https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/grant-shapps-risks-huge-damage-22190035

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't those the two labour mps labour want deselected

kle4 said:

kjh said:

kle4 said:

kjh said:

Just heard Heidi Allen on R4. Apparently at one election a ballot paper had an erect penis against her name and a flaccid penis against her LD opponents name. It was counted as a vote for her.

Now I have been at quite a few counts, sometimes as an agent, and there is no way a returning officer would do that. I am guessing the 3 of them were having a bit of fun considering the 1 vote didn't change anything.

I have been at many counts and penises are usually accepted. With no dissent from any party. Absolutely returning officers accept that sort of thing.

Guidance on what to accept is quite liberal, so listing 1 and 2 would often accept the vote for 1, when I'd think it unclear as they could be rating not ranking them. If erect penis is a tick and a flaccid one a cross itd pass muster with many returning officers as being clear in intent (the tick cross thing is accepted as people sometime mark the wrong box but make clear which one they intend, so it's not rejected as voting for more than you can - people often tick one and cross all the others).

I'd say that's not certain so dont accept but where it doesnt matter you are right people tend to let it through, so I'm sure the story is true

I'm sure the story is true.

I have no problem with a penis on a ballot paper (I have seen so many) but in this case there were two, one against each candidate and it was decided that the clear intention was by identifying the erect one. Now come on no returning officer should accept that except as a joke with the agents and candidates. It is definitely not clear what the intention was. Might be he was saying he fancied Heidi and not the LD (a man).

I'd say they shouldn't, but I've seen calls like that made, even in relatively close contests, with the two rivals both fine with it. I suppose agents might take the long view that the next close call will be in their favour.

Re my 'might be', my clarification that the LD was a man might put me in hot water as I have therefore assumed the voter wasn't bisexual, which of course he might have been. You have to be so careful these days.

PS Or she of course. I should stop digging now.

Philip_Thompson said:

Scott_xP said:

Speaking as an occasional friend of @BorisJohnson, also as a fellow journalist: in 45 years of civil service and then public reporting, the only worse prime minister I have seen is Silvio Berlusconi.
https://twitter.com/JohnGPeet/status/1461081436379926532

A more entertaining introduction than "Speaking an ardent pro-EU zealot, who's written as a journalist and for decades against Brexit ..."

Do you not get it Philip. Boris got Brexit over the line. Your Brexit. That most sacred of political achievements. All down to Boris.

And you know what? He was a tosser not giving a damn, still less knowing anything about it or anything else then and he is a tosser not giving a damn, still less knowing anything about it or anything else now.

And he is the guy that is your hero. Boris supported Brexit; he is Brexit. And like everything else he supports it therefore merits a huge scepticism as to its value.

TimS said:

kinabalu said:

What a shambles. You can hardly see the screw ups for the screw ups atm. Johnson seems to be unravelling at a rate of knots, yet I find I'm taking no pleasure in it. It's the patriot in me, I suppose. When all's said and done I want the best for the UK. And the fact is, this bloke is our PM and quite likely to remain so for years, so I'd love to see him use this rocky period to reinvent himself. People do this sometimes so why not here. Let's see the facing of some hard truths then a reboot. Let's see a new Boris Johnson, one with integrity, grip and vision. Let's see a proper grown-up prime minister for what I like to think is a proper grown-up country. If I were advising him that's the 'tough love' message I'd give.

As a patriot who's probably overly bothered about our image abroad I am hoping the collapse comes fully, quickly and humiliatingly because I'd dearly love the rest of the world to stop conflating "Boris" with "Britain". We need to cut the knot, like - for a while at least - the USA did by turfing out Trump and electing Biden.

That doesn't require a change of government necessarily, it just needs a new leader (Rishi will do, Liz would not) who doesn't come across as a clown, seems morally upstanding and has a less antagonistic attitude to our neighbours particularly Ireland. Every time Britain is seen to be targeting Ireland the rest of the world thinks "there they go again".

Italy struggled to shake off the shadow of Berlusconi and he kept coming back. Our own Berlusconi needs to be more cleanly extricated from government.

So let him be gone and let's start rebuilding our global brand.

Yes, I fear my Johnson 'reboot' is probably a pipedream. Nevertheless that would genuinely be my advice to him. Finger out, red boxes, upgrade the cabinet with talent not stoolies, and please please please stop making stupid jokes about everything.

Scott_xP said:

Coventry MPs @zarahsultana and @TaiwoOwatemi have written to Boris Johnson about Transport Sec Grant Shapps opposing a vital Midlands factory https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/grant-shapps-risks-huge-damage-22190035

Nothing to do with both of them being threatened with deselection, of course.

Scott_xP said:

Yesterday Boris Johnson admitted he crashed the car when it came to sleaze.

Today he has derailed the trains.

He’s taking the country absolutely nowhere.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1461325245038698497

The same Starmer who is opposed to HS2

ManchesterKurt said:

eek said:

MoonRabbit said:

eek said:

MoonRabbit said:

eek said:

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SandyRentool said:

I'm intrigued how Bradford to Leeds in 12 minutes is achieved without NPR.

It isn't. Its 9.36 miles between Leeds and Bradford Interchange. With several miles of complex and slow junctions and curves out of Leeds, then a two-track railway with two stations. Sticking wires up for faster acceleration is ok but doesn't half the journey time.

Its a lie. Because they think you are stupid. A Tory MP has just raised this point and been batted away by Shapps

Shapps keeps referring to recommendations and all the details must be available in those documents with explanations detailing the engineering studies and calculations

You do come from a very anti government standpoint and of course the figures quoted by Shapps are not his own so using words lie lies and stupid do not add to the debate

Shapps can't read details if he thinks York to Manchester can be done in 28 minutes (it's 70 miles and currently takes 90 minutes minimum).

And that's the first example I can think of.

I thought he said 28 minutes quicker

Plenty of the media are reporting is

GS says journey times from York to Manchester will go from 55 minutes to 28 minutes.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-government-reveals-long-delayed-22199389

The 12:05 entry.

As I say the actual report says 55mins. It is now "typically" 83mins.

By typically I assume they mean timetable. Reality at the moment is at least 95mins.

If I have a meeting in Manchester I schedule to arrive 90 minutes early because it's probably needed.

Why don’t you use zoom Eek? My friend puts black tape on the camera and does it in her camiknickers. And she sounds like proper in charge and everything.

Surely the essence of your meeting is, you tell them what to do and they have to do it or woe betide them.

Too many meetings. Too much travelling. Too many pleb wagon trains. Do I sound anti train?

Looking ahead, the motorways will be electric long before the railway wont they? That’s true isn’t it?

What has your post got to do with current journey times to Manchester,

As for your question - change management (especially when third parties are involved) means meeting people in person - a remote third party person telling someone how their job is about to change using computers they are often scared of goes down about as well as a Government Infrastructure announcement which hasn't been sanity checked by people who know railways.

So you visit them in person, you ask them for their issues (watching how they do their current job) and then ensure some of their points are included in the project. The result is that the awkward squad often become the chief cheerleaders for the new system because it contains things they know will make their life easier.

Now were I an employee I could probably do a few things without meeting them in person, but I suspect it actually wouldn't help that much.

I understand. That is a proper good answer. And good skills set you have, change management, getting the resistant voices to become cheerleaders in making the change.

But how much of other business travel overall is nugatory, and can’t go digital? I don’t want to come across rude, but it sounds old fashioned to want more rail network. Surely you should always look to adopt new culture than always continue in the same cozy way?

I want more railway because UK leisure travel is already at pre-covid levels and is going to continue getting busier.

And the reality is that business is personal - yes I can do stuff online but its far nicer to be doing it with people you have physically met and will meet again down the line.

Removing one high speed train from the old ECML, WCML or MML and putting it on HS2 provides paths for 3 commuter or freight trains.

The major failure from todays announcement is that those intercity trains will remain on the MML and ECML thus not enabling more freight and commuter services into the future.

Very short sighted.

Not at all.
These are plans for long term chaos.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_xP said:

Yesterday Boris Johnson admitted he crashed the car when it came to sleaze.

Today he has derailed the trains.

He’s taking the country absolutely nowhere.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1461325245038698497

The same Starmer who is opposed to HS2

Locally, but not nationally from memory.

Scott_xP said:

Yesterday Boris Johnson admitted he crashed the car when it came to sleaze.

Today he has derailed the trains.

He’s taking the country absolutely nowhere.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1461325245038698497

He's having a good week, Sir Keir, but he really needs to start appending these kinds of statements with what Labour will do. That's how to start building a government in waiting.

"...He's taking the country absolutely nowhere
A Labour government will build HS3 and NPR, no ifs and buts"

etc. for each policy area. There is enough flexibility around timescales and funding that he need not worry about "unfunded promises" accusations, and I'm not sure they would stick anyway. Would just make the Tories look mean to the North.

TimS said:

Scott_xP said:

Yesterday Boris Johnson admitted he crashed the car when it came to sleaze.

Today he has derailed the trains.

He’s taking the country absolutely nowhere.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1461325245038698497

He's having a good week, Sir Keir, but he really needs to start appending these kinds of statements with what Labour will do. That's how to start building a government in waiting.

"...He's taking the country absolutely nowhere
A Labour government will build HS3 and NPR, no ifs and buts"

etc. for each policy area. There is enough flexibility around timescales and funding that he need not worry about "unfunded promises" accusations, and I'm not sure they would stick anyway. Would just make the Tories look mean to the North.

The accepted wisdom is that LotOs only need to articulate policies once a GE is in sight.

Generally those saying they need a policy from the Opposition NOW are govt supporters; and they only say it when the govt is in trouble.

RochdalePioneers said:

FFS

https://twitter.com/StephenJoseph7/status/1461321725518532609

Small print in Integrated Rail Plan: "commitments will be made only to progress individual schemes up to the next stage of development, and a re-authorisation will be required at that point." Cue @hmtreasury scrutiny before anything is built.

The same broken gravity models which have starved the north of investment will now be used to not build any of this stuff either. I've had so many arguments with our own "econometrics" people about the utility of the gravity model. They're addicted to them but compared to real world data they perform extremely poorly. One day, hopefully soon, people will realise that economics isn't a science and the predictive value of gravity modelling is very low. Yet our lives are effectively ruled by them from the treasury.

BigG is back in full-on, defend the Tories mode, like a dog returning to his vomit.

Carnyx said:

swing_voter said:

dixiedean said:

CarlottaVance said:

The Government's plan for #NorthernPowerhouseRail. There is some new track, going about half way across the Pennines. (This also shows, as expected, that HS2 will go to Manchester)



https://twitter.com/jonwalker121/status/1461300460313362435?s=20

That new track seems to connect Warrington with Huddersfield. Ideal for a Thursday night mid-table RL clash in 2050.
But not for regional re-generation.
Also, why does the "upgrade" stop at Northallerton?

Northallerton is Rishi's train station, he lives a short distance from it.

Well, nobody seems to have discussed today what the Scots might think about the complete foulup over HS2. But seems superfluous when the Yorkshirepersons, monkey-hangers and Geordies are doing an admirable job of assessment already.

Mind, I seem to recall Mr Johnson proclaiming how HS2 would strengthen the sinews of the Union.

Ironically HS2 when completed will speed rail to Scotland

SandyRentool said:

I noted that the Tory MP for our neighbouring seat of Keighley didn't sound too pleased.

He should be grateful that he's still got steam trains in his constituency.

A decent service from Bradford to Leeds / Manchester was way better than the nothing that constituency has now got.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Carnyx said:

swing_voter said:

dixiedean said:

CarlottaVance said:

The Government's plan for #NorthernPowerhouseRail. There is some new track, going about half way across the Pennines. (This also shows, as expected, that HS2 will go to Manchester)



https://twitter.com/jonwalker121/status/1461300460313362435?s=20

That new track seems to connect Warrington with Huddersfield. Ideal for a Thursday night mid-table RL clash in 2050.
But not for regional re-generation.
Also, why does the "upgrade" stop at Northallerton?

Northallerton is Rishi's train station, he lives a short distance from it.

Well, nobody seems to have discussed today what the Scots might think about the complete foulup over HS2. But seems superfluous when the Yorkshirepersons, monkey-hangers and Geordies are doing an admirable job of assessment already.

Mind, I seem to recall Mr Johnson proclaiming how HS2 would strengthen the sinews of the Union.

Ironically HS2 when completed will speed rail to Scotland

But it will never now be completed. That is the whole point of the news today.

kinabalu said:

TimS said:

kinabalu said:

What a shambles. You can hardly see the screw ups for the screw ups atm. Johnson seems to be unravelling at a rate of knots, yet I find I'm taking no pleasure in it. It's the patriot in me, I suppose. When all's said and done I want the best for the UK. And the fact is, this bloke is our PM and quite likely to remain so for years, so I'd love to see him use this rocky period to reinvent himself. People do this sometimes so why not here. Let's see the facing of some hard truths then a reboot. Let's see a new Boris Johnson, one with integrity, grip and vision. Let's see a proper grown-up prime minister for what I like to think is a proper grown-up country. If I were advising him that's the 'tough love' message I'd give.

As a patriot who's probably overly bothered about our image abroad I am hoping the collapse comes fully, quickly and humiliatingly because I'd dearly love the rest of the world to stop conflating "Boris" with "Britain". We need to cut the knot, like - for a while at least - the USA did by turfing out Trump and electing Biden.

That doesn't require a change of government necessarily, it just needs a new leader (Rishi will do, Liz would not) who doesn't come across as a clown, seems morally upstanding and has a less antagonistic attitude to our neighbours particularly Ireland. Every time Britain is seen to be targeting Ireland the rest of the world thinks "there they go again".

Italy struggled to shake off the shadow of Berlusconi and he kept coming back. Our own Berlusconi needs to be more cleanly extricated from government.

So let him be gone and let's start rebuilding our global brand.

Yes, I fear my Johnson 'reboot' is probably a pipedream. Nevertheless that would genuinely be my advice to him. Finger out, red boxes, upgrade the cabinet with talent not stoolies, and please please please stop making stupid jokes about everything.

This is a similar argument to why didn’t Trump take the pandemic seriously? Why didn't he say nice things about the dead John McCain? He could have won Arizona and then possibly re-election.
Because he is Donald Trump.
A reboot of the kind you envisage isn't possible. Because it is Boris Johnson.

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

FFS

https://twitter.com/StephenJoseph7/status/1461321725518532609

Small print in Integrated Rail Plan: "commitments will be made only to progress individual schemes up to the next stage of development, and a re-authorisation will be required at that point." Cue @hmtreasury scrutiny before anything is built.

The same broken gravity models which have starved the north of investment will now be used to not build any of this stuff either. I've had so many arguments with our own "econometrics" people about the utility of the gravity model. They're addicted to them but compared to real world data they perform extremely poorly. One day, hopefully soon, people will realise that economics isn't a science and the predictive value of gravity modelling is very low. Yet our lives are effectively ruled by them from the treasury.

I do wonder if the treasury will change it's viewpoint when half of them move North (or whether that move is going to rapidly peter out).