Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The big speech reaction – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 6 in General
The big speech reaction – politicalbetting.com

Boris Johnson now squats like a giant toad across British politics. He has expanded the Overton window in both directions. Praising bankers and drug companies, while tight on immigration and woke history. Cheered for lauding the NHS and pro LGBT. Where does Labour find a gap?

Read the full story here

«13456789

Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    Threader needs a bit of editing, TSE….
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957
    Off topic, and not sure if it was covered yesterday but what are the procedural thoughts on the Welsh Assembly's vote yesterday where the outcome was changed because one member could not log on to Zoom?

    Feels unsatisfactory to me, and open to someone targeting their broadband in important votes.
  • Leon said:

    Threader needs a bit of editing, TSE….

    Yah, multi-tasking and OGH ringing me to put up a thread.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861

    Leon said:

    Threader needs a bit of editing, TSE….

    Yah, multi-tasking and OGH ringing me to put up a thread.
    Better now, just needs a couple of commas
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,189

    Off topic, and not sure if it was covered yesterday but what are the procedural thoughts on the Welsh Assembly's vote yesterday where the outcome was changed because one member could not log on to Zoom?

    Feels unsatisfactory to me, and open to someone targeting their broadband in important votes.

    Having a vote changed due to IT issues is not democracy. Utterly unacceptable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,704
    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    If there is an election next spring the Tories likely get a working majority. If they carry on trying to work out how to deliver better, giving only aspiration not delivering better, say beyond this time next year, it’s Icarus wings isn’t it?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    edited October 6

    Off topic, and not sure if it was covered yesterday but what are the procedural thoughts on the Welsh Assembly's vote yesterday where the outcome was changed because one member could not log on to Zoom?

    Feels unsatisfactory to me, and open to someone targeting their broadband in important votes.

    It sounds to me like there's a bit more to it than the simplistic story being spun by anti-vax-passport business groups. E.g. the AM could have phoned the presiding officer but didn't.
    Frankly, it's little different to someone being stuck in traffic and failing to make it in time. The procedures are known and the vote was apparently done correctly.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,403

    Off topic, and not sure if it was covered yesterday but what are the procedural thoughts on the Welsh Assembly's vote yesterday where the outcome was changed because one member could not log on to Zoom?

    Feels unsatisfactory to me, and open to someone targeting their broadband in important votes.

    Having a vote changed due to IT issues is not democracy. Utterly unacceptable.
    Is it any less acceptable than due to a cancelled train, heart attack or child in hospital?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,884
    Boris is showbiz. Absolutely no doubt about that. Cracking jokes, magnetic stage presence.

    Totally unfit to be PM but who TF cares.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,505
    On topic SKS couldn't find a gap in a designer jeans shop
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,930
    Leon said:

    Threader needs a bit of editing, TSE….

    Impressionistic as a Boris speech.
    What's not to like ?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510
    edited October 6
    TOPPING said:

    Boris is showbiz. Absolutely no doubt about that. Cracking jokes, magnetic stage presence.

    Totally unfit to be PM but who TF cares.

    Jim Jones was undoubtedly a charismatic preacher.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,403
    Missed the speech. Take it those who find the PM the very definition of charisma loved it.
    Thoae who don't didn't?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957
    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, and not sure if it was covered yesterday but what are the procedural thoughts on the Welsh Assembly's vote yesterday where the outcome was changed because one member could not log on to Zoom?

    Feels unsatisfactory to me, and open to someone targeting their broadband in important votes.

    Having a vote changed due to IT issues is not democracy. Utterly unacceptable.
    Is it any less acceptable than due to a cancelled train, heart attack or child in hospital?
    I think so because it is possible to attack someones broadband connection with little chance of being found out. Poker players have had this problem in the past, where they get targeted with a DDOS attack, typically used against big companies, when in a big pot, and ending up timed out.
  • Off topic, and not sure if it was covered yesterday but what are the procedural thoughts on the Welsh Assembly's vote yesterday where the outcome was changed because one member could not log on to Zoom?

    Feels unsatisfactory to me, and open to someone targeting their broadband in important votes.

    Having a vote changed due to IT issues is not democracy. Utterly unacceptable.
    From what I read there were a few options for him to vote, calling the Presiding Officer, instructing a proxy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,582

    On topic SKS couldn't find a gap in a designer jeans shop

    Wasn't it your hero Corbyn who lost heavily in GE2019?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,403
    One thing he must have over SKS.
    45 minutes. Now you're talking. Or not.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,505

    On topic SKS couldn't find a gap in a designer jeans shop

    Wasn't it your hero Corbyn who lost heavily in GE2019?
    Why is that relevant
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510
    edited October 6
    Didn’t see the speech.

    Sounds like it was the usual snake oil for the highly gullible and intellectually feeble.

    If it’s comedy you’re after, there’s loads of good stuff on Netflix.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,582
    TOPPING said:

    Boris is showbiz. Absolutely no doubt about that. Cracking jokes, magnetic stage presence.

    Totally unfit to be PM but who TF cares.

    "My speaking style was criticised by no less an authority than Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was a low moment, my friends, to have my rhetorical skills denounced by a monosyllabic Austrian cyborg."

    Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/boris-johnson-quotes
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,930
    (Somewhat on topic...) Would you invest in an outfit called Fantasia ?

    Fantasia downgraded to default status by rating agencies as Chinese property sector crisis worsens
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/world/2021/10/672_316576.html
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957
    dixiedean said:

    Missed the speech. Take it those who find the PM the very definition of charisma loved it.
    Thoae who don't didn't?

    Yeah, that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,582

    On topic SKS couldn't find a gap in a designer jeans shop

    Wasn't it your hero Corbyn who lost heavily in GE2019?
    Why is that relevant
    Because that's why you only won 202 seats.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957
    Nigelb said:

    (Somewhat on topic...) Would you invest in an outfit called Fantasia ?

    Fantasia downgraded to default status by rating agencies as Chinese property sector crisis worsens
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/world/2021/10/672_316576.html

    Going back to this mornings threads, perhaps this will be the start of the next global house price crash.....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,573
    Nigelb said:

    (Somewhat on topic...) Would you invest in an outfit called Fantasia ?

    Fantasia downgraded to default status by rating agencies as Chinese property sector crisis worsens
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/world/2021/10/672_316576.html

    Once had a horse called Autumn Fantasy, which I thought sounded like the colour of a cheap bathroom suite ("would you like that in the avocado or the Autumn Fantasy?")
  • Crikey, the entirety of Twitch got hacked/leaked.

    If you use that, change your password ASAP.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,786
    edited October 6
    Nigelb said:

    (Somewhat on topic...) Would you invest in an outfit called Fantasia ?

    Fantasia downgraded to default status by rating agencies as Chinese property sector crisis worsens
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/world/2021/10/672_316576.html

    People invest in/use Nonce Finance.

    Names don't matter.

    https://noncefinance.com/
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,774
    dixiedean said:

    One thing he must have over SKS.
    45 minutes. Now you're talking. Or not.

    No fewer words, I'd vouch, he paced it like Peter O'Sullivan as the horses go down the home straight.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861

    Didn’t see the speech.

    Sounds like it was the usual snake oil for the highly gullible and intellectually feeble.

    If it’s comedy you’re after, there’s loads of good stuff on Netflix.

    Boris was actually funnier than most of the sitcoms on Netflix
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,782
    Speech length

    Starmer 89 mins
    Johnson 44 mins
  • Word of the day (again) is ‘ultracrepidarian’ (19th century): one who gives opinions and judgements on matters they know nothing about.

    https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1445722553549561856

    Disappointed she used judgement though rather than judgment.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,406
    Leon said:

    Didn’t see the speech.

    Sounds like it was the usual snake oil for the highly gullible and intellectually feeble.

    If it’s comedy you’re after, there’s loads of good stuff on Netflix.

    Boris was actually funnier than most of the sitcoms on Netflix
    Not a high bar.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 3,584
    There's an assumption in all the commentary that Johnson means what he says and, if so, is also capable of delivering it. In practice, I don't believe a word he says. Too often he claims to be doing one thing only to mask the fact that he's doing the opposite. I think that in time more will come to see that, and opinions of him will shift further for the worse.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,406
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.

    Yes, and by me, amongst others. I thought - and said here - Starmer did pretty well. He’s not a great orator, he’s lacking in humour, but he came across as decent, sincere (tho later on I recalled Starmer’s demand for a 2nd referendum so I resiled on that). Starmer also spoke far too long, and didn’t offer any detail

    Boris gabbled his speech, he threw away good, funny, profound or important lines. Why does he do this? I think others are right: he’s used to addressing drunken dinners. His peroration was weak and, like Starmer, the speech lacked detail.

    But Boris told a good and upbeat story (unlike Starmer), he made his audience, in the hall and at home, actually laugh. It’s pretty clear which party will be going home in better spirits, and which party is happier with its leader

    The economy has to absolutely tank for Labour to have a chance of winning. That might happen, of course
    A fair assessment.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957

    Word of the day (again) is ‘ultracrepidarian’ (19th century): one who gives opinions and judgements on matters they know nothing about.

    https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1445722553549561856

    Disappointed she used judgement though rather than judgment.

    Synonyms for ultracrepidarian:

    1) Pb.com posters (21st century)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,457
    From past thread: What was the key question he framed that Labour have lost already?

    Something along the lines of:

    Do you agree that Brexit represents an opportunity to reboot Britain and we should get on with it, or do you want to go with Starmer and open our borders again?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,884
    V funny when he visibly disagreed with his speechwriters about the make up of Churchill's audience.

    Shows what a game he thinks it all is when he is so happy to break the fourth wall.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,573

    Word of the day (again) is ‘ultracrepidarian’ (19th century): one who gives opinions and judgements on matters they know nothing about.

    https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1445722553549561856

    Disappointed she used judgement though rather than judgment.

    @Dura_Ace wheels it out from time to time. I am with Dr Johnson - You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,704
    Just saw a clip of the speech - what was with the lighting in the hall? I thought it was taking place in a cave.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,582

    Word of the day (again) is ‘ultracrepidarian’ (19th century): one who gives opinions and judgements on matters they know nothing about.

    https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1445722553549561856

    Disappointed she used judgement though rather than judgment.

    Nah, "judgment" is the Yank spelling.

    https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/19/judgement/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.

    Yes, and by me, amongst others. I thought - and said here - Starmer did pretty well. He’s not a great orator, he’s lacking in humour, but he came across as decent, sincere (tho later on I recalled Starmer’s demand for a 2nd referendum so I resiled on that). Starmer also spoke far too long, and didn’t offer any detail

    Boris gabbled his speech, he threw away good, funny, profound or important lines. Why does he do this? I think others are right: he’s used to addressing drunken dinners. His peroration was weak and, like Starmer, the speech lacked detail.

    But Boris told a good and upbeat story (unlike Starmer), he made his audience, in the hall and at home, actually laugh. It’s pretty clear which party will be going home in better spirits, and which party is happier with its leader

    The economy has to absolutely tank for Labour to have a chance of winning. That might happen, of course
    A fair assessment.
    Indeed, not sure who jumped onto Leon's laptop.....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510

    There's an assumption in all the commentary that Johnson means what he says and, if so, is also capable of delivering it. In practice, I don't believe a word he says. Too often he claims to be doing one thing only to mask the fact that he's doing the opposite. I think that in time more will come to see that, and opinions of him will shift further for the worse.

    We’ve had two years of Boris-ism, though, and 40% either haven’t figured it out or have, but don’t care.

    As others say, only an economic downturn is likely to knock the scales from the voters’ eyes.

    And even then, Keir is not much use and not very ornamental.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861

    There's an assumption in all the commentary that Johnson means what he says and, if so, is also capable of delivering it. In practice, I don't believe a word he says. Too often he claims to be doing one thing only to mask the fact that he's doing the opposite. I think that in time more will come to see that, and opinions of him will shift further for the worse.

    Isn’t this just a truism? The same could be said of any political leader in history

    Question is how long Boris can trundle along before, as you say, he runs out of road

    There’s a decent chance he could make it to the second half of the decade as PM
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,924

    Off topic, and not sure if it was covered yesterday but what are the procedural thoughts on the Welsh Assembly's vote yesterday where the outcome was changed because one member could not log on to Zoom?

    Feels unsatisfactory to me, and open to someone targeting their broadband in important votes.

    Having a vote changed due to IT issues is not democracy. Utterly unacceptable.
    They’re actually using Zoom?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 456
    Labour have to highlight the New-conservative class who donate to the party.

    Make it so whenever a voter sees Johnson they remember the Russian money, the hedge fund and financier money and the developer money. And they understand that it isn't given because of oligarchic love of sound governance but to further influence the rules of the country.

    Call him Boris incessantly but do it to reference the wealth the party receives from a ruling class that has already corrupted one system and would do to ours.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,505

    On topic SKS couldn't find a gap in a designer jeans shop

    Wasn't it your hero Corbyn who lost heavily in GE2019?
    Why is that relevant
    If I crash a car then hand it over to you and tell you you've got to drive a hundred miles then I start criticising you over the lack of progress you're going to be rightly angry.

    Corbyn bequeathed Starmer a toxic legacy.
    No mate.

    Starmer has removed the wheels on the left side from the car and made it so the steering wheel only turns right.

    Everyone who drives it falls asleep listening to SKS greatest hits on the cassette and crashes the car over again.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957
    kle4 said:

    Just saw a clip of the speech - what was with the lighting in the hall? I thought it was taking place in a cave.

    Energy prices.....
  • isamisam Posts: 38,441
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.

    Yes, and by me, amongst others. I thought - and said here - Starmer did pretty well. He’s not a great orator, he’s lacking in humour, but he came across as decent, sincere (tho later on I recalled Starmer’s demand for a 2nd referendum so I resiled on that). Starmer also spoke far too long, and didn’t offer any detail

    Boris gabbled his speech, he threw away good, funny, profound or important lines. Why does he do this? I think others are right: he’s used to addressing drunken dinners. His peroration was weak and, like Starmer, the speech lacked detail.

    But Boris told a good and upbeat story (unlike Starmer), he made his audience, in the hall and at home, actually laugh. It’s pretty clear which party will be going home in better spirits, and which party is happier with its leader

    The economy has to absolutely tank for Labour to have a chance of winning. That might happen, of course
    “ Del Boy is a happy-go-lucky, cheeky character. While not always successful, his general optimism and confidence often persuade people to believe in him. Del Boy is a compulsive liar, particularly to women, customers, policemen and even his family and doctors. Athough engaged many times, he never marries. He has had many girlfriends, a fact that is the subject of numerous sarcastic comments by Rodney. Del Boy is a petty criminal and makes no attempt to hide it unless directly confronted by the authorities
    Del Boy is often regarded as one of the greatest comedy characters in the history of British television, and is regarded as an iconic character in British culture." “

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/04/prosecuting-del-boy.html
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    kle4 said:

    Just saw a clip of the speech - what was with the lighting in the hall? I thought it was taking place in a cave.

    A hollowed-out volcano would be more like it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,573
    kle4 said:

    Just saw a clip of the speech - what was with the lighting in the hall? I thought it was taking place in a cave.

    A nod to Plato. Some of that Oxford classics stuff sank in.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 3,584

    From past thread: What was the key question he framed that Labour have lost already?

    Something along the lines of:

    Do you agree that Brexit represents an opportunity to reboot Britain and we should get on with it, or do you want to go with Starmer and open our borders again?

    Yet another example of Johnson doublespeak.

    Which of the two of them had "Make Brexit Work" as their slogan?

    Yes, Johnson should get on with it, and as Starmer pointed out he needs to but is doing anything but.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,754
    The undoing of Johnson is the yawning chasm between rhetoric and reality.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,582

    On topic SKS couldn't find a gap in a designer jeans shop

    Wasn't it your hero Corbyn who lost heavily in GE2019?
    Why is that relevant
    If I crash a car then hand it over to you and tell you you've got to drive a hundred miles then I start criticising you over the lack of progress you're going to be rightly angry.

    Corbyn bequeathed Starmer a toxic legacy.
    No mate.

    Starmer has removed the wheels on the left side from the car and made it so the steering wheel only turns right.

    Everyone who drives it falls asleep listening to SKS greatest hits on the cassette and crashes the car over again.

    GE2019 result:

    Johnson 365 seats
    Corbyn 202 seats
  • Finally a Tory MP gets it.

    Rising wages are great unless prices rise faster. Inflation matters - it’s about what we can afford and how families make ends meet in a tough month.

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1445697113812180992
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,505

    On topic SKS couldn't find a gap in a designer jeans shop

    Wasn't it your hero Corbyn who lost heavily in GE2019?
    Why is that relevant
    Because that's why you only won 202 seats.
    It's not but even if it was it is completely irrelevant to Starmer being a useless nonentity.

    Try and mount a defence of SKS without yeah but Corbyn.

    Impossible task?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957

    Finally a Tory MP gets it.

    Rising wages are great unless prices rise faster. Inflation matters - it’s about what we can afford and how families make ends meet in a tough month.

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1445697113812180992

    Last remnants of the old guard I'm afraid.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,523
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Just saw a clip of the speech - what was with the lighting in the hall? I thought it was taking place in a cave.

    A hollowed-out volcano would be more like it.
    ....Mr. Bond.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,582

    On topic SKS couldn't find a gap in a designer jeans shop

    Wasn't it your hero Corbyn who lost heavily in GE2019?
    Why is that relevant
    Because that's why you only won 202 seats.
    It's not but even if it was it is completely irrelevant to Starmer being a useless nonentity.

    Try and mount a defence of SKS without yeah but Corbyn.

    Impossible task?
    Starmer hasn't lost GE2024... yet.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,232
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.

    Yes, and by me, amongst others. I thought - and said here - Starmer did pretty well. He’s not a great orator, he’s lacking in humour, but he came across as decent, sincere (tho later on I recalled Starmer’s demand for a 2nd referendum so I resiled on that). Starmer also spoke far too long, and didn’t offer any detail

    Boris gabbled his speech, he threw away good, funny, profound or important lines. Why does he do this? I think others are right: he’s used to addressing drunken dinners. His peroration was weak and, like Starmer, the speech lacked detail.

    But Boris told a good and upbeat story (unlike Starmer), he made his audience, in the hall and at home, actually laugh. It’s pretty clear which party will be going home in better spirits, and which party is happier with its leader

    The economy has to absolutely tank for Labour to have a chance of winning. That might happen, of course
    And that's the point.

    If things are going well, any incumbent will look like a winner, even if they are an incoherent oaf.

    When things go badly, that's when politicians earn their corn. People can read the polls of 2020 in different ways, but I think they show BoJo gradually spaffing away the bump he got as we all rallied round the flag at the start of the crisis.

    And sunny optimism works brilliantly in sunny times. Try the same thing when lots of people are struggling, it makes you look a bit of a psycho. So the next election depends on what it always depended on- does Bozzanomics work?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,754
    Boris likes to talk about the future because his record is so poor.
  • We might have to nuke The Met and start all over again.

    A woman who was arrested at the Sarah Everard vigil says that about 50 police officers contacted her via a dating app, leaving her “terrified”.

    The image of Patsy Stevenson, 28, being pinned to the floor by two male police officers on March 13, her hands held behind her back, was one of the defining images in criticism of how the vigil in Clapham Common was policed.

    Stevenson said that officers approached her on Tinder after she was handcuffed at the vigil.

    “They were all in uniform on their profiles or it said ‘I’m a police officer’,” she told the BBC.

    “I do not understand why someone would do that. It is almost like an intimidation thing, saying ‘look we can see you’, and that, to me, is terrifying.

    “They know what I went through and they know that I’m fearful of police and they’ve done that for a reason.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-arrested-at-everard-vigil-says-officers-contacted-her-on-tinder-dating-app-mkvbj9xpp
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,189

    There's an assumption in all the commentary that Johnson means what he says and, if so, is also capable of delivering it. In practice, I don't believe a word he says. Too often he claims to be doing one thing only to mask the fact that he's doing the opposite. I think that in time more will come to see that, and opinions of him will shift further for the worse.

    We’ve had two years of Boris-ism, though, and 40% either haven’t figured it out or have, but don’t care.

    As others say, only an economic downturn is likely to knock the scales from the voters’ eyes.

    And even then, Keir is not much use and not very ornamental.
    I don't think there are any scales on the voters eyes. People know exactly who and what Boris is.

    They're just OK with it. As long as things are going well, they are happy with the upbeat demeaner even if it irritates others and even if its not always serious.

    People don't want dour and serious and negative all the time. If they did, they'd have elected Brown not Cameron.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,523
    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957
    Jonathan said:

    The undoing of Johnson is the yawning chasm between rhetoric and reality.

    In a world where millions believe in QAnon, how difficult is it to merely believe that things are getting better when they are not, or that Labour would make things worse than the Tories (and to be fair, they might well do)?

    Our capabilities for holding belief systems have changed massively with the shift from national press and tv to unregulated internet.
  • Finally a Tory MP gets it.

    Rising wages are great unless prices rise faster. Inflation matters - it’s about what we can afford and how families make ends meet in a tough month.

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1445697113812180992

    Last remnants of the old guard I'm afraid.
    Yup.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,754

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    snake oil
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,995
    Does make me laugh. When the entryists flooded the Labour Party 2015 was year zero. If you were a member pre-Jeremy you were a Tory. All of the successes and ideas and practices of the past went in the bin.

    And now? 2019 is year zero. Labour getting dragged down to 202 seats and having had the toxic terrorist as leader never happened. Starmer should be 20 points ahead and that he has failed to pull Labour all the way back out of the Corbyn pit is all his fault because what pit.

    Its no wonder that @bigjohnowls has pledged to vote Tory, the argument is so delusional it may as well be from Boris.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,189

    Finally a Tory MP gets it.

    Rising wages are great unless prices rise faster. Inflation matters - it’s about what we can afford and how families make ends meet in a tough month.

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1445697113812180992

    Except you're pointedly ignoring TSE the fact that prices have risen faster than wages for decades now.

    Not an issue if you got a mortgage when you were 18 and sold it on to buy a mansion for cash so you don't have to worry about inflation. For families making ends meet though, inflation never went away in the first place.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,232

    Finally a Tory MP gets it.

    Rising wages are great unless prices rise faster. Inflation matters - it’s about what we can afford and how families make ends meet in a tough month.

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1445697113812180992

    Isn't Tom T part of the salon des refusés? Basically the Ted Heath role in Spitting Image's "Tomorrow belongs to me" parody?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,754

    Jonathan said:

    The undoing of Johnson is the yawning chasm between rhetoric and reality.

    In a world where millions believe in QAnon, how difficult is it to merely believe that things are getting better when they are not, or that Labour would make things worse than the Tories (and to be fair, they might well do)?

    Our capabilities for holding belief systems have changed massively with the shift from national press and tv to unregulated internet.
    Alas we found that Boris' rhetoric did not save your grandparents from covid, put food on the shelves, fuel in your tank or money in your pocket.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 3,584
    edited October 6
    Leon said:

    There's an assumption in all the commentary that Johnson means what he says and, if so, is also capable of delivering it. In practice, I don't believe a word he says. Too often he claims to be doing one thing only to mask the fact that he's doing the opposite. I think that in time more will come to see that, and opinions of him will shift further for the worse.

    Isn’t this just a truism? The same could be said of any political leader in history

    Question is how long Boris can trundle along before, as you say, he runs out of road

    There’s a decent chance he could make it to the second half of the decade as PM
    I don't think the same could be said of any political leader. Take "levelling up" for example. You can't really accuse any recent Conservative leader of parking their tanks on Labour's lawn to the same degree. It appeals to the Red Wall and is a good short term tactic. But it leaves him a lot more exposed, and with a lot further to fall when the Emperor is found to have no clothes.

    As you say, in the meantime the question is how long Johnson can maintain the fiction.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Lol.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,995

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Some consistency would be helpful. If the massive upheavals to the economy and the shortages and the nuking of energy prices is all part of the glorious Brexit masterplan then why spend the previous weeks denying such horrors are happening?

    Even in his speech today there was no reference to it - surely it should be "you can't get fuel and thats a Good Thing because we are building back better pay and conditions for British truckers!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,403
    Leon said:

    There's an assumption in all the commentary that Johnson means what he says and, if so, is also capable of delivering it. In practice, I don't believe a word he says. Too often he claims to be doing one thing only to mask the fact that he's doing the opposite. I think that in time more will come to see that, and opinions of him will shift further for the worse.

    Isn’t this just a truism? The same could be said of any political leader in history

    Question is how long Boris can trundle along before, as you say, he runs out of road

    There’s a decent chance he could make it to the second half of the decade as PM
    According to Laura K the Chief Whip is anticipating a 20 year reign.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,887

    kinabalu said:

    Statesman my arse.

    Fecking court jester running the country.

    Much truth here and very little that isn't.
    Where is the evidence he is running the country as opposed to merely observing the country and providing sunny and delusional commentary?
    Actually he's ruining the country. Small but critical difference. If he was doing no harm and merely providing sunny and delusional commentary - that would be all right.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,884
    edited October 6

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Some consistency would be helpful. If the massive upheavals to the economy and the shortages and the nuking of energy prices is all part of the glorious Brexit masterplan then why spend the previous weeks denying such horrors are happening?

    Even in his speech today there was no reference to it - surely it should be "you can't get fuel and thats a Good Thing because we are building back better pay and conditions for British truckers!
    My point this morning:

    Boris: Brexit is not responsible for shortages, supply issues, mass pigocide, etc
    Also Boris: The economy is experiencing stresses and strains which you'd expect from Brexit and is part of our Grand Plan.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,701

    Crikey, the entirety of Twitch got hacked/leaked.

    If you use that, change your password ASAP.

    Passwords not leaked yet apparently. Twitch users should read this and do what it and @TheScreamingEagles say, and also pay their taxes.

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/6/22712250/twitch-hack-leak-data-streamer-revenue-steam-competitor
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.

    Yes, and by me, amongst others. I thought - and said here - Starmer did pretty well. He’s not a great orator, he’s lacking in humour, but he came across as decent, sincere (tho later on I recalled Starmer’s demand for a 2nd referendum so I resiled on that). Starmer also spoke far too long, and didn’t offer any detail

    Boris gabbled his speech, he threw away good, funny, profound or important lines. Why does he do this? I think others are right: he’s used to addressing drunken dinners. His peroration was weak and, like Starmer, the speech lacked detail.

    But Boris told a good and upbeat story (unlike Starmer), he made his audience, in the hall and at home, actually laugh. It’s pretty clear which party will be going home in better spirits, and which party is happier with its leader

    The economy has to absolutely tank for Labour to have a chance of winning. That might happen, of course
    And that's the point.

    If things are going well, any incumbent will look like a winner, even if they are an incoherent oaf.

    When things go badly, that's when politicians earn their corn. People can read the polls of 2020 in different ways, but I think they show BoJo gradually spaffing away the bump he got as we all rallied round the flag at the start of the crisis.

    And sunny optimism works brilliantly in sunny times. Try the same thing when lots of people are struggling, it makes you look a bit of a psycho. So the next election depends on what it always depended on- does Bozzanomics work?
    But Boris has already shown he can survive bad times. The UKG fucked up early covid, didn’t close the borders in time, killed people in care homes. Disgraceful. We also had the worst economic slump in the G7. Meanwhile Brexit has been endless ear-ache and people have been queuing hours for petrol (a crisis which severely dented ‘Teflon’ Tony Blair)

    Yet Boris sails serenely on. He is protected by the praetorian guard of Leave voters, but he also has some undefinable charisma which sustains him. He is a phenomenon. He’s also clearly regained his vim after his Covid infection

    If he stays in office til the next GE he will be extremely hard to defeat - as things stand
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,634

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    A vision to sell snake oil?

    I like how all these issues besetting the government are couched as the work of their predecessors, which Johnson has been tasked with resolving.

    Smoke and mirrors bollocks, that Johnson lovers will simply lap up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,189

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Some consistency would be helpful. If the massive upheavals to the economy and the shortages and the nuking of energy prices is all part of the glorious Brexit masterplan then why spend the previous weeks denying such horrors are happening?

    Even in his speech today there was no reference to it - surely it should be "you can't get fuel and thats a Good Thing because we are building back better pay and conditions for British truckers!
    Because "horrors" aren't happening.

    You can get fuel and were it not for a media-induced panic you always could.
    You can get bacon and if a few pigs bred to be killed get killed it isn't the end of the world.

    There's a big difference between going through teething issues in a transition to a better place, and going through abject horrors and misery.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,701
    Site seems very sticky in the last couple of minutes. Hope the Americans waking up have not broken Facebook again.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,675

    We might have to nuke The Met and start all over again.

    A woman who was arrested at the Sarah Everard vigil says that about 50 police officers contacted her via a dating app, leaving her “terrified”.

    The image of Patsy Stevenson, 28, being pinned to the floor by two male police officers on March 13, her hands held behind her back, was one of the defining images in criticism of how the vigil in Clapham Common was policed.

    Stevenson said that officers approached her on Tinder after she was handcuffed at the vigil.

    “They were all in uniform on their profiles or it said ‘I’m a police officer’,” she told the BBC.

    “I do not understand why someone would do that. It is almost like an intimidation thing, saying ‘look we can see you’, and that, to me, is terrifying.

    “They know what I went through and they know that I’m fearful of police and they’ve done that for a reason.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-arrested-at-everard-vigil-says-officers-contacted-her-on-tinder-dating-app-mkvbj9xpp

    Did they show her their warrant cards?

    I appreciate that this may sound like "women shouldn't go out dressed like that", but if you want to avoid weirdos and perverts, then I'd suggest avoiding Tinder.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,701
    edited October 6

    Word of the day (again) is ‘ultracrepidarian’ (19th century): one who gives opinions and judgements on matters they know nothing about.

    https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1445722553549561856

    Disappointed she used judgement though rather than judgment.

    Nah, "judgment" is the Yank spelling.

    https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/19/judgement/
    And lawyers' spelling. At least, that is what I remember from the last time it came up here. Judges issue judgments.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,884

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Some consistency would be helpful. If the massive upheavals to the economy and the shortages and the nuking of energy prices is all part of the glorious Brexit masterplan then why spend the previous weeks denying such horrors are happening?

    Even in his speech today there was no reference to it - surely it should be "you can't get fuel and thats a Good Thing because we are building back better pay and conditions for British truckers!
    Because "horrors" aren't happening.

    You can get fuel and were it not for a media-induced panic you always could.
    You can get bacon and if a few pigs bred to be killed get killed it isn't the end of the world.

    There's a big difference between going through teething issues in a transition to a better place, and going through abject horrors and misery.
    The problem for Boris - for any politician, but especially for the PM - is that he can't even say "it's just teething issues" because that shows a crack in the defences.

    All he can do is say it's all marvelous and exactly what we planned and isn't everything great. And hope his supporters don't notice.

    And it has worked because of supporters like you in fact, Philip, who parrot the it's all marvelous line.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,884
    tlg86 said:

    We might have to nuke The Met and start all over again.

    A woman who was arrested at the Sarah Everard vigil says that about 50 police officers contacted her via a dating app, leaving her “terrified”.

    The image of Patsy Stevenson, 28, being pinned to the floor by two male police officers on March 13, her hands held behind her back, was one of the defining images in criticism of how the vigil in Clapham Common was policed.

    Stevenson said that officers approached her on Tinder after she was handcuffed at the vigil.

    “They were all in uniform on their profiles or it said ‘I’m a police officer’,” she told the BBC.

    “I do not understand why someone would do that. It is almost like an intimidation thing, saying ‘look we can see you’, and that, to me, is terrifying.

    “They know what I went through and they know that I’m fearful of police and they’ve done that for a reason.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-arrested-at-everard-vigil-says-officers-contacted-her-on-tinder-dating-app-mkvbj9xpp

    Did they show her their warrant cards?

    I appreciate that this may sound like "women shouldn't go out dressed like that", but if you want to avoid weirdos and perverts, then I'd suggest avoiding Tinder.
    WTF? Telling women to avoid Tinder? And not wear short skirts?

    They were obviously intimidating her and it is disgusting. But she should stay off Tinder.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,995

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Some consistency would be helpful. If the massive upheavals to the economy and the shortages and the nuking of energy prices is all part of the glorious Brexit masterplan then why spend the previous weeks denying such horrors are happening?

    Even in his speech today there was no reference to it - surely it should be "you can't get fuel and thats a Good Thing because we are building back better pay and conditions for British truckers!
    Because "horrors" aren't happening.

    You can get fuel and were it not for a media-induced panic you always could.
    You can get bacon and if a few pigs bred to be killed get killed it isn't the end of the world.

    There's a big difference between going through teething issues in a transition to a better place, and going through abject horrors and misery.
    If they aren't happening why are the government saying (rightly) that they are happening as part of the plan?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,701
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.

    Yes, and by me, amongst others. I thought - and said here - Starmer did pretty well. He’s not a great orator, he’s lacking in humour, but he came across as decent, sincere (tho later on I recalled Starmer’s demand for a 2nd referendum so I resiled on that). Starmer also spoke far too long, and didn’t offer any detail

    Boris gabbled his speech, he threw away good, funny, profound or important lines. Why does he do this? I think others are right: he’s used to addressing drunken dinners. His peroration was weak and, like Starmer, the speech lacked detail.

    But Boris told a good and upbeat story (unlike Starmer), he made his audience, in the hall and at home, actually laugh. It’s pretty clear which party will be going home in better spirits, and which party is happier with its leader

    The economy has to absolutely tank for Labour to have a chance of winning. That might happen, of course
    And that's the point.

    If things are going well, any incumbent will look like a winner, even if they are an incoherent oaf.

    When things go badly, that's when politicians earn their corn. People can read the polls of 2020 in different ways, but I think they show BoJo gradually spaffing away the bump he got as we all rallied round the flag at the start of the crisis.

    And sunny optimism works brilliantly in sunny times. Try the same thing when lots of people are struggling, it makes you look a bit of a psycho. So the next election depends on what it always depended on- does Bozzanomics work?
    But Boris has already shown he can survive bad times. The UKG fucked up early covid, didn’t close the borders in time, killed people in care homes. Disgraceful. We also had the worst economic slump in the G7. Meanwhile Brexit has been endless ear-ache and people have been queuing hours for petrol (a crisis which severely dented ‘Teflon’ Tony Blair)

    Yet Boris sails serenely on. He is protected by the praetorian guard of Leave voters, but he also has some undefinable charisma which sustains him. He is a phenomenon. He’s also clearly regained his vim after his Covid infection

    If he stays in office til the next GE he will be extremely hard to defeat - as things stand
    Charisma trumps all. Trump himself, Arnie, Reagan, and now Boris all learned their craft on the small or big screen.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 4,714

    Word of the day (again) is ‘ultracrepidarian’ (19th century): one who gives opinions and judgements on matters they know nothing about.

    https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1445722553549561856

    Disappointed she used judgement though rather than judgment.

    Nah, "judgment" is the Yank spelling.

    https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/19/judgement/
    Judgment is correct in British English too, just less used. Sometimes both spellings are correct. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/judgment
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,009
    tlg86 said:

    We might have to nuke The Met and start all over again.

    A woman who was arrested at the Sarah Everard vigil says that about 50 police officers contacted her via a dating app, leaving her “terrified”.

    The image of Patsy Stevenson, 28, being pinned to the floor by two male police officers on March 13, her hands held behind her back, was one of the defining images in criticism of how the vigil in Clapham Common was policed.

    Stevenson said that officers approached her on Tinder after she was handcuffed at the vigil.

    “They were all in uniform on their profiles or it said ‘I’m a police officer’,” she told the BBC.

    “I do not understand why someone would do that. It is almost like an intimidation thing, saying ‘look we can see you’, and that, to me, is terrifying.

    “They know what I went through and they know that I’m fearful of police and they’ve done that for a reason.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-arrested-at-everard-vigil-says-officers-contacted-her-on-tinder-dating-app-mkvbj9xpp

    Did they show her their warrant cards?

    I appreciate that this may sound like "women shouldn't go out dressed like that", but if you want to avoid weirdos and perverts, then I'd suggest avoiding Tinder.
    Tinder may or may not be a cesspool. Never even seen it.

    The policemen in question need slapping. With house bricks. Because they acted like stupid arseholes.

    Just because a place is full of stupid arseholes being arseholes is no excuse for being an arsehole.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,754

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.

    Yes, and by me, amongst others. I thought - and said here - Starmer did pretty well. He’s not a great orator, he’s lacking in humour, but he came across as decent, sincere (tho later on I recalled Starmer’s demand for a 2nd referendum so I resiled on that). Starmer also spoke far too long, and didn’t offer any detail

    Boris gabbled his speech, he threw away good, funny, profound or important lines. Why does he do this? I think others are right: he’s used to addressing drunken dinners. His peroration was weak and, like Starmer, the speech lacked detail.

    But Boris told a good and upbeat story (unlike Starmer), he made his audience, in the hall and at home, actually laugh. It’s pretty clear which party will be going home in better spirits, and which party is happier with its leader

    The economy has to absolutely tank for Labour to have a chance of winning. That might happen, of course
    And that's the point.

    If things are going well, any incumbent will look like a winner, even if they are an incoherent oaf.

    When things go badly, that's when politicians earn their corn. People can read the polls of 2020 in different ways, but I think they show BoJo gradually spaffing away the bump he got as we all rallied round the flag at the start of the crisis.

    And sunny optimism works brilliantly in sunny times. Try the same thing when lots of people are struggling, it makes you look a bit of a psycho. So the next election depends on what it always depended on- does Bozzanomics work?
    But Boris has already shown he can survive bad times. The UKG fucked up early covid, didn’t close the borders in time, killed people in care homes. Disgraceful. We also had the worst economic slump in the G7. Meanwhile Brexit has been endless ear-ache and people have been queuing hours for petrol (a crisis which severely dented ‘Teflon’ Tony Blair)

    Yet Boris sails serenely on. He is protected by the praetorian guard of Leave voters, but he also has some undefinable charisma which sustains him. He is a phenomenon. He’s also clearly regained his vim after his Covid infection

    If he stays in office til the next GE he will be extremely hard to defeat - as things stand
    Charisma trumps all. Trump himself, Arnie, Reagan, and now Boris all learned their craft on the small or big screen.
    Trump lost.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,189

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Some consistency would be helpful. If the massive upheavals to the economy and the shortages and the nuking of energy prices is all part of the glorious Brexit masterplan then why spend the previous weeks denying such horrors are happening?

    Even in his speech today there was no reference to it - surely it should be "you can't get fuel and thats a Good Thing because we are building back better pay and conditions for British truckers!
    Because "horrors" aren't happening.

    You can get fuel and were it not for a media-induced panic you always could.
    You can get bacon and if a few pigs bred to be killed get killed it isn't the end of the world.

    There's a big difference between going through teething issues in a transition to a better place, and going through abject horrors and misery.
    If they aren't happening why are the government saying (rightly) that they are happening as part of the plan?
    Don't you understand the difference between "horrors" and "stresses and strains".

    If you want to get fit and you choose to exercise then that stresses and strains your muscles, but it isn't a horror, nor is it the wrong thing to do.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,675
    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    We might have to nuke The Met and start all over again.

    A woman who was arrested at the Sarah Everard vigil says that about 50 police officers contacted her via a dating app, leaving her “terrified”.

    The image of Patsy Stevenson, 28, being pinned to the floor by two male police officers on March 13, her hands held behind her back, was one of the defining images in criticism of how the vigil in Clapham Common was policed.

    Stevenson said that officers approached her on Tinder after she was handcuffed at the vigil.

    “They were all in uniform on their profiles or it said ‘I’m a police officer’,” she told the BBC.

    “I do not understand why someone would do that. It is almost like an intimidation thing, saying ‘look we can see you’, and that, to me, is terrifying.

    “They know what I went through and they know that I’m fearful of police and they’ve done that for a reason.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-arrested-at-everard-vigil-says-officers-contacted-her-on-tinder-dating-app-mkvbj9xpp

    Did they show her their warrant cards?

    I appreciate that this may sound like "women shouldn't go out dressed like that", but if you want to avoid weirdos and perverts, then I'd suggest avoiding Tinder.
    WTF? Telling women to avoid Tinder? And not wear short skirts?

    They were obviously intimidating her and it is disgusting. But she should stay off Tinder.
    You're assuming that they are all actual policemen.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,403
    TOPPING said:

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Some consistency would be helpful. If the massive upheavals to the economy and the shortages and the nuking of energy prices is all part of the glorious Brexit masterplan then why spend the previous weeks denying such horrors are happening?

    Even in his speech today there was no reference to it - surely it should be "you can't get fuel and thats a Good Thing because we are building back better pay and conditions for British truckers!
    Because "horrors" aren't happening.

    You can get fuel and were it not for a media-induced panic you always could.
    You can get bacon and if a few pigs bred to be killed get killed it isn't the end of the world.

    There's a big difference between going through teething issues in a transition to a better place, and going through abject horrors and misery.
    The problem for Boris - for any politician, but especially for the PM - is that he can't even say "it's just teething issues" because that shows a crack in the defences.

    All he can do is say it's all marvelous and exactly what we planned and isn't everything great. And hope his supporters don't notice.

    And it has worked because of supporters like you in fact, Philip, who parrot the it's all marvelous line.
    Yes. What's remarkable is this new line has only really been settled on in the past fortnight.
    It is only days since there were no issues at all, whatsoever, with Brexit, according to the Daily Express wing, at least.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 4,714

    There's an assumption in all the commentary that Johnson means what he says and, if so, is also capable of delivering it. In practice, I don't believe a word he says. Too often he claims to be doing one thing only to mask the fact that he's doing the opposite. I think that in time more will come to see that, and opinions of him will shift further for the worse.

    We’ve had two years of Boris-ism, though, and 40% either haven’t figured it out or have, but don’t care.

    As others say, only an economic downturn is likely to knock the scales from the voters’ eyes.

    And even then, Keir is not much use and not very ornamental.
    I don't think there are any scales on the voters eyes. People know exactly who and what Boris is.

    They're just OK with it. As long as things are going well, they are happy with the upbeat demeaner even if it irritates others and even if its not always serious.

    People don't want dour and serious and negative all the time. If they did, they'd have elected Brown not Cameron.
    I wondered what an "upbeat demeaner" is. Presumably someone who demeans people, but in an upbeat way. Maybe as in letter-boxes and tank-topped bumboys.
  • Crikey, the entirety of Twitch got hacked/leaked.

    If you use that, change your password ASAP.

    Passwords not leaked yet apparently. Twitch users should read this and do what it and @TheScreamingEagles say, and also pay their taxes.

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/6/22712250/twitch-hack-leak-data-streamer-revenue-steam-competitor
    It flashed up on my work server as a serious incident (Red 8) with the potential for massive financial security risk for users and the company.

    At work, Red 8 is also known as the stepmom, that's how bad it is.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,232
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Worth recalling that Starmer's speech was reasonably well received on here.

    Yes, and by me, amongst others. I thought - and said here - Starmer did pretty well. He’s not a great orator, he’s lacking in humour, but he came across as decent, sincere (tho later on I recalled Starmer’s demand for a 2nd referendum so I resiled on that). Starmer also spoke far too long, and didn’t offer any detail

    Boris gabbled his speech, he threw away good, funny, profound or important lines. Why does he do this? I think others are right: he’s used to addressing drunken dinners. His peroration was weak and, like Starmer, the speech lacked detail.

    But Boris told a good and upbeat story (unlike Starmer), he made his audience, in the hall and at home, actually laugh. It’s pretty clear which party will be going home in better spirits, and which party is happier with its leader

    The economy has to absolutely tank for Labour to have a chance of winning. That might happen, of course
    And that's the point.

    If things are going well, any incumbent will look like a winner, even if they are an incoherent oaf.

    When things go badly, that's when politicians earn their corn. People can read the polls of 2020 in different ways, but I think they show BoJo gradually spaffing away the bump he got as we all rallied round the flag at the start of the crisis.

    And sunny optimism works brilliantly in sunny times. Try the same thing when lots of people are struggling, it makes you look a bit of a psycho. So the next election depends on what it always depended on- does Bozzanomics work?
    But Boris has already shown he can survive bad times. The UKG fucked up early covid, didn’t close the borders in time, killed people in care homes. Disgraceful. We also had the worst economic slump in the G7. Meanwhile Brexit has been endless ear-ache and people have been queuing hours for petrol (a crisis which severely dented ‘Teflon’ Tony Blair)

    Yet Boris sails serenely on. He is protected by the praetorian guard of Leave voters, but he also has some undefinable charisma which sustains him. He is a phenomenon. He’s also clearly regained his vim after his Covid infection

    If he stays in office til the next GE he will be extremely hard to defeat - as things stand
    That's the question the graphs don't let us answer...yet.

    One reading is they, yes, is damn hard for an opponent to beat, and most PMs would kill for his ratings.

    The other is that he was heading for the rocks last November, only to be saved by the vaccines. And now he is drifting in the same direction.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,189
    TOPPING said:

    Boris has a vision to sell. He will get on and sell it. Despite "teething troubles", he will say this is what we should have been doing these past 40 years.

    And you know what? He'll be right.....

    Some consistency would be helpful. If the massive upheavals to the economy and the shortages and the nuking of energy prices is all part of the glorious Brexit masterplan then why spend the previous weeks denying such horrors are happening?

    Even in his speech today there was no reference to it - surely it should be "you can't get fuel and thats a Good Thing because we are building back better pay and conditions for British truckers!
    Because "horrors" aren't happening.

    You can get fuel and were it not for a media-induced panic you always could.
    You can get bacon and if a few pigs bred to be killed get killed it isn't the end of the world.

    There's a big difference between going through teething issues in a transition to a better place, and going through abject horrors and misery.
    The problem for Boris - for any politician, but especially for the PM - is that he can't even say "it's just teething issues" because that shows a crack in the defences.

    All he can do is say it's all marvelous and exactly what we planned and isn't everything great. And hope his supporters don't notice.

    And it has worked because of supporters like you in fact, Philip, who parrot the it's all marvelous line.
    I'm a freethinker, if I say something its because its what I think.

    I say that full employment, growing wages, improving productivity, a growing economy and opportunities for people is a good thing not because its a 'line to take' but because I think that full employment, growing wages, improving productivity, a growing economy and opportunities for people is a good thing.
This discussion has been closed.