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The big speech reaction – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    edited October 2021

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    The 'Ireland should rejoin the UK' movement still biding its time I imagine, ready to erupt.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    The 'Ireland should rejoin the UK' still biding its time I imagine, ready to erupt.
    Also I see some of us have not considered the remaining 26% of the vote.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    The 'Ireland should rejoin the UK' still biding its time I imagine, ready to erupt.
    It'll happen around the same time as peak SNP.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Some of Macron’s words to Africa


    ‘Wherever France has been present, it has mingled. It has also been the land of creolization, of crossbreeding, of mixed marriages. A country where human adventures were allowed. Others were present in a colonial form in Africa and never mixed. Like it or not, France has a part of Africa in her. Our destinies are linked.’

    Africans should be in a ‘love affair’ with France because France graciously allowed ‘CROSSBREEDING’

    https://www.theafricareport.com/51475/president-macron-between-france-and-africa-it-must-be-a-love-story/

    What comes across from the interview is Macron has a real interest in Africa that is rare, to being unique amongst Western leaders.

    Don't know whether any of it makes sense, as I have no knowledge of the politics of the continent. I suspect some of it might and some of it probably doesn't.
    He has a real interest in Africa, such that he boasts of the French *allowing* inter-racial sex with Africans?

    It's a point of view. But, either way, it REALLY hasn't worked

    https://www.theafricareport.com/73566/in-africa-frances-image-takes-a-hit-but-turkey-qatar-and-the-uaes-are-on-the-up/

    https://www.theafricareport.com/52774/does-macron-understand-how-much-influence-france-has-lost-in-africa-achille-mbembe/
    The word Macron uses is métissage. In this context probably best translated as mixed- race. Can also mean multicultural as well as interbreeding.

    The point he's making, I think, is that France uniquely amongst colonisers has Africa in its blood. Maybe patronising, but not really what you are suggesting.
    "métissage" in English
    métissage {m}EN
    miscegenation crossbreeding crossing interbreeding



    métissé

    adjective

    of mixed race having ancestors (especially parents) from two or more different human races.


    French to English: more detail...
    métissage:
    miscegenation; mixture of races
    Wiktionary:
    métissage → interbreeding, crossbreeding, crossing, miscegenation


    The ability of twattish Remoaners like you to bend over backwards and forgive an EU politician a ridiculously stupid and insulting remark is always remarkable. If Boris said the equivalent you'd herniate yourself in your confected outrage
    This the example French Wikipedia uses for métissage. Would you describe Barack Obama as interbred, crossbred or miscegenated? No but you might say he's mixed race. That's what Macron meant because that's a normal understanding of the word


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,478
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Some of Macron’s words to Africa


    ‘Wherever France has been present, it has mingled. It has also been the land of creolization, of crossbreeding, of mixed marriages. A country where human adventures were allowed. Others were present in a colonial form in Africa and never mixed. Like it or not, France has a part of Africa in her. Our destinies are linked.’

    Africans should be in a ‘love affair’ with France because France graciously allowed ‘CROSSBREEDING’

    https://www.theafricareport.com/51475/president-macron-between-france-and-africa-it-must-be-a-love-story/

    Imperialism - a love affair between two peoples. Or at least, a system where one country gratuitously fucks the other over repeatedly.
    Actually, imperialism isn't all one way - it provides internal and external security and infrastructure, for example, that allows trade and growth where chaos may previously have reigned.

    But, the quality of life for the average person does depend on the attitude of the rulers.
  • https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1445846824846303239

    Starmer's speech was better received than Johnson's
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19630085.real-scottish-politics-bbc-got-wrong-supreme-court-ruling/?ref=ebbn



    "The entire basis for arguing that a second referendum would be lawful even without Westminster's consent is that it does not affect Westminster's ability to make laws for Scotland. It would be entirely up to the Westminster Parliament to decide how to react to the outcome of that referendum. The mere fact of holding a referendum does not impact upon Westminster's ability to make laws for Scotland, which was the crux of today's ruling.

    Moreover, there is a very different political context. The judges in the Supreme Court would be aware that the current Scottish Government was elected on a manifesto commitment to hold another referendum. Were the Court to rule that it could not do so, it would be in effect overruling the outcome of a democratic election and moreover making a fundamental change to the constitutional nature of the UK, changing it from the traditional understanding of a voluntary union into a union founded on compulsion. This would have huge political ramifications for the whole of the UK but especially in Scotland. Judges would be very wary of igniting a constitutional crisis of that magnitude."

    A referendum without the consent of Westminster would be boycotted by unionists. And so, sure, there would be a clear vote for independence.

    But with the referendum having be unapproved, the UK government would simply refuse to negotiate independence with Scotland.

    And just as with Catalonia, I don't think that a boycotted election would embolden the Scottish government enough for UDI. You can't go the UDI route where support for independence is 50/50. It simply won't happen.

    Now, I'm not a nutter who thinks that there are no circumstances when another independence referendum would be justified. If the SNP were to get 50% of the vote at either the next Scottish or UK General Election, I would say that the Scots had spoken, and that they had clearly expressed a wish. But we're not there. The SNP is polling - what - 41-42% in the polls. That's not clear evidence that the Scots have changed their mind, that's clear evidence that stasis continues.
    Exactly, if Yes was on 60%+ and the SNP had won a thumping majority in May then indyref2 would be hard for Westminster to stop even though legally it could do so.

    Instead Yes is only around 50% at best and the SNP failed to get a majority in May so even if the SNP held an indyref2 at least half of Scottish voters would boycott it and Westminster could and would ignore the result and the SC would uphold its right to ignore the result.
    There is a substantial majority of pro-independence MSPs at Holyrood. Which raises serious questions about your analysis.

    The governing SNP and Greens got only 49% on the constituency vote at Holyrood in May and only 48.4% on the list, that is not a thumping majority for indyref2 on any grounds
    You really are a subversive. It's bums on seats that count. MI6 needs to be told about you.

    And you are forgetting, deliberately as always, the portion of Slab voters who are pro-indfy,
    It is bums on Westminster seats that matters yes, it would not matter if every MSP was SNP, Westminster could legally and constitutionally still refuse indyref2.

    Of course not every SNP voter is pro independence either
    Depends what you mean by Westminster. If you mean legislation by the HoC, fine. If you mean executive acts of the S o S for Scotland, them's judicially reviewable. I don't see how a request for an indyref would be answered by an Act of Parliament. It would be an executive refusal.
    Quite. As a matter of interest, though, why not an Act of Parliament?
    Because that's not how things generally work. If you want to tell someone to bugger off, the usual way to do it is to say "Bugger off." Rather than introduce a Buggering Off Bill and have days of debate as to how much Buggering Off there should be, with speeches by the SNP and stuff.

    I think. Struggling to think of a parallel, though, and could be wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited October 2021

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    The 'Ireland should rejoin the UK' still biding its time I imagine, ready to erupt.
    All 3 of those Irish parties supported Irish independence from the UK and grew out of Sinn Fein after Irish independence in 1922. Fine Gael's parent party split from Sinn Fein to form a new pro Anglo Irish Treaty party in 1923. Fianna Fail split from Sinn Fein in 1926 when De Valera, at the time the leader of the anti Treaty Sinn Fein, failed to get his party to support a motion to allow elected members to take their seats in the Dail if the Oath of Allegiance was removed and left it to form FF.
  • HYUFD said:

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    Yes but FG and FF still have combined 10% more than SF and FG and FF are the current Irish coalition government. Ireland also has pure PR STV not FPTP so SF cannot benefit from a split vote amongst its opponents
    I think 7% is surprisingly good for the Greens at the moment TBH considering the last time they participated in gvt with FF they got wiped out in 2011.

    Labour and the SDs are also holding steady on 4% and 3% like they got in 2020 so there is the potential for more efficient transferring/seat gains and SF will put up more candidates next time.

    I think some kind of 'left led' gvt is a massive long shot but not completely impossible considering SFs utter dominance with young voters and they probably aren't going anywhere.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,377
    HYUFD said:

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    Yes but FG and FF still have combined 10% more than SF and FG and FF are the current Irish coalition government. Ireland also has pure PR STV not FPTP so SF cannot benefit from a split vote amongst its opponents
    STV is not pure PR, though it's correct FF and FG would be likely to have more seats combined than SF on those figures. It's a surprisingly high figure for FF. I would have expected them to suffer for supporting Coveney in the confidence vote.

    The news in Ireland today is that the ruling coalition is on the verge of losing another TD, which would drop their majority to 3. To see out their full term they will have to start buying favours from some of the independents before too long.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,351
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Some of Macron’s words to Africa


    ‘Wherever France has been present, it has mingled. It has also been the land of creolization, of crossbreeding, of mixed marriages. A country where human adventures were allowed. Others were present in a colonial form in Africa and never mixed. Like it or not, France has a part of Africa in her. Our destinies are linked.’

    Africans should be in a ‘love affair’ with France because France graciously allowed ‘CROSSBREEDING’

    https://www.theafricareport.com/51475/president-macron-between-france-and-africa-it-must-be-a-love-story/

    What comes across from the interview is Macron has a real interest in Africa that is rare, to being unique amongst Western leaders.

    Don't know whether any of it makes sense, as I have no knowledge of the politics of the continent. I suspect some of it might and some of it probably doesn't.
    He has a real interest in Africa, such that he boasts of the French *allowing* inter-racial sex with Africans?

    It's a point of view. But, either way, it REALLY hasn't worked

    https://www.theafricareport.com/73566/in-africa-frances-image-takes-a-hit-but-turkey-qatar-and-the-uaes-are-on-the-up/

    https://www.theafricareport.com/52774/does-macron-understand-how-much-influence-france-has-lost-in-africa-achille-mbembe/
    The word Macron uses is métissage. In this context probably best translated as mixed- race. Can also mean multicultural as well as interbreeding.

    The point he's making, I think, is that France uniquely amongst colonisers has Africa in its blood. Maybe patronising, but not really what you are suggesting.
    "métissage" in English
    métissage {m}EN
    miscegenation crossbreeding crossing interbreeding



    métissé

    adjective

    of mixed race having ancestors (especially parents) from two or more different human races.


    French to English: more detail...
    métissage:
    miscegenation; mixture of races
    Wiktionary:
    métissage → interbreeding, crossbreeding, crossing, miscegenation


    The ability of twattish Remoaners like you to bend over backwards and forgive an EU politician a ridiculously stupid and insulting remark is always remarkable. If Boris said the equivalent you'd herniate yourself in your confected outrage
    This the example French Wikipedia uses for métissage. Would you describe Barack Obama as interbred, crossbred or miscegenated? No but you might say he's mixed race. That's what Macron meant because that's a normal understanding of the word


    it doesn't change what Macron said. He boasted that France, unlike other countries, ALLOWED some Africans to have sex with white French people. That's it. He's also said lots of other stupid things. It is therefore not surprising that his attempt to woo Africa has gone down like a coupe de cold sick

    https://www.ft.com/content/cea9cdd9-c500-41bc-a2ae-2e4c01eaf2e8

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-57319524

    "Macron blasted for comments on African women and their ‘seven or eight children’"

    https://www.thelocal.fr/20170712/macron-accused-of-racism-for-comments-on-african-women-and-their-seven-or-children/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050

    HYUFD said:

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    Yes but FG and FF still have combined 10% more than SF and FG and FF are the current Irish coalition government. Ireland also has pure PR STV not FPTP so SF cannot benefit from a split vote amongst its opponents
    I think 7% is surprisingly good for the Greens at the moment TBH considering the last time they participated in gvt with FF they got wiped out in 2011.

    Labour and the SDs are also holding steady on 4% and 3% like they got in 2020 so there is the potential for more efficient transferring/seat gains and SF will put up more candidates next time.

    I think some kind of 'left led' gvt is a massive long shot but not completely impossible considering SFs utter dominance with young voters and they probably aren't going anywhere.

    I expect FG and FF would do a deal with Independents if necessary to get a majority if the Greens joined SF and Labour and the SDs
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19630085.real-scottish-politics-bbc-got-wrong-supreme-court-ruling/?ref=ebbn



    "The entire basis for arguing that a second referendum would be lawful even without Westminster's consent is that it does not affect Westminster's ability to make laws for Scotland. It would be entirely up to the Westminster Parliament to decide how to react to the outcome of that referendum. The mere fact of holding a referendum does not impact upon Westminster's ability to make laws for Scotland, which was the crux of today's ruling.

    Moreover, there is a very different political context. The judges in the Supreme Court would be aware that the current Scottish Government was elected on a manifesto commitment to hold another referendum. Were the Court to rule that it could not do so, it would be in effect overruling the outcome of a democratic election and moreover making a fundamental change to the constitutional nature of the UK, changing it from the traditional understanding of a voluntary union into a union founded on compulsion. This would have huge political ramifications for the whole of the UK but especially in Scotland. Judges would be very wary of igniting a constitutional crisis of that magnitude."

    A referendum without the consent of Westminster would be boycotted by unionists. And so, sure, there would be a clear vote for independence.

    But with the referendum having be unapproved, the UK government would simply refuse to negotiate independence with Scotland.

    And just as with Catalonia, I don't think that a boycotted election would embolden the Scottish government enough for UDI. You can't go the UDI route where support for independence is 50/50. It simply won't happen.

    Now, I'm not a nutter who thinks that there are no circumstances when another independence referendum would be justified. If the SNP were to get 50% of the vote at either the next Scottish or UK General Election, I would say that the Scots had spoken, and that they had clearly expressed a wish. But we're not there. The SNP is polling - what - 41-42% in the polls. That's not clear evidence that the Scots have changed their mind, that's clear evidence that stasis continues.
    Exactly, if Yes was on 60%+ and the SNP had won a thumping majority in May then indyref2 would be hard for Westminster to stop even though legally it could do so.

    Instead Yes is only around 50% at best and the SNP failed to get a majority in May so even if the SNP held an indyref2 at least half of Scottish voters would boycott it and Westminster could and would ignore the result and the SC would uphold its right to ignore the result.
    There is a substantial majority of pro-independence MSPs at Holyrood. Which raises serious questions about your analysis.

    The governing SNP and Greens got only 49% on the constituency vote at Holyrood in May and only 48.4% on the list, that is not a thumping majority for indyref2 on any grounds
    You really are a subversive. It's bums on seats that count. MI6 needs to be told about you.

    And you are forgetting, deliberately as always, the portion of Slab voters who are pro-indfy,
    It is bums on Westminster seats that matters yes, it would not matter if every MSP was SNP, Westminster could legally and constitutionally still refuse indyref2.

    Of course not every SNP voter is pro independence either
    Depends what you mean by Westminster. If you mean legislation by the HoC, fine. If you mean executive acts of the S o S for Scotland, them's judicially reviewable. I don't see how a request for an indyref would be answered by an Act of Parliament. It would be an executive refusal.
    Quite. As a matter of interest, though, why not an Act of Parliament?
    Because that's not how things generally work. If you want to tell someone to bugger off, the usual way to do it is to say "Bugger off." Rather than introduce a Buggering Off Bill and have days of debate as to how much Buggering Off there should be, with speeches by the SNP and stuff.

    I think. Struggling to think of a parallel, though, and could be wrong.
    Oh, it has happened. There was that case where the Scottish Parliament passed an act in re Brexit which was within its powers - only for HMG in London to hold up the court case by delaying tactics while they changed the law.

    "The court sparked a row between the UK and Scottish governments by confirming that much of the bill was lawful when it was introduced in March, but had since been made unlawful when the UK government changed the EU Withdrawal Act in the Lords, to further limit Holyrood’s powers."

    Basically, HMG realisedf that they couldn't legally say 'Bugger off' so delayed with intent and changed the law, effectively retrospectively.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/13/key-holyrood-brexit-legislation-breaches-law-rules-uk-supreme-court
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    edited October 2021

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    The 'Ireland should rejoin the UK' movement still biding its time I imagine, ready to erupt.
    Has anyone sensible ever suggested that was a movement that existed?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
    kle4 said:

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    The 'Ireland should rejoin the UK' movement still biding its time I imagine, ready to erupt.
    Has anyone sensible ever suggested that was a movement that existed?
    'sensible' as in 'Brexiteer MP'?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,518

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    The 'Ireland should rejoin the UK' movement still biding its time I imagine, ready to erupt.
    That the UK should, with a bit of humility, seek to rejoin Ireland would be the better way; an unrealisable dream, but what a wonderful one. What you might call the New Zealand solution to having two islands close together.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,692
    IshmaelZ said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Some of Macron’s words to Africa


    ‘Wherever France has been present, it has mingled. It has also been the land of creolization, of crossbreeding, of mixed marriages. A country where human adventures were allowed. Others were present in a colonial form in Africa and never mixed. Like it or not, France has a part of Africa in her. Our destinies are linked.’

    Africans should be in a ‘love affair’ with France because France graciously allowed ‘CROSSBREEDING’

    https://www.theafricareport.com/51475/president-macron-between-france-and-africa-it-must-be-a-love-story/

    What comes across from the interview is Macron has a real interest in Africa that is rare, to being unique amongst Western leaders.

    Don't know whether any of it makes sense, as I have no knowledge of the politics of the continent. I suspect some of it might and some of it probably doesn't.
    He has a real interest in Africa, such that he boasts of the French *allowing* inter-racial sex with Africans?

    It's a point of view. But, either way, it REALLY hasn't worked

    https://www.theafricareport.com/73566/in-africa-frances-image-takes-a-hit-but-turkey-qatar-and-the-uaes-are-on-the-up/

    https://www.theafricareport.com/52774/does-macron-understand-how-much-influence-france-has-lost-in-africa-achille-mbembe/
    The word Macron uses is métissage. In this context probably best translated as mixed- race. Can also mean multicultural as well as interbreeding.

    The point he's making, I think, is that France uniquely amongst colonisers has Africa in its blood. Maybe patronising, but not really what you are suggesting.

    More on this. French Wikipedia gives Barack Obama as example of métissage. Strictly you could say he's crossbred, but it's not the way you would put it, I think.
    Mulatto? Quadroon? High-yaller?

    And how, metaphorically or literally, does France have Africa "in its blood" than any other European nation which pillaged the continent?
    Words that mean the same thing can vary from the preferred to the highly pejorative. Dual heritage vs half caste for example. The weirdest one is "people of colour" vs "coloured people".

    My French is not good enough to translate the nuances of the word Macron used.

    France has its own approach to ethnicity and Frenchness. Clearly there is a group who sees non ethnically French as a threat to national identity, but on the other hand France officially refuses to collect statistics on religion and ethnicity on the grounds that these are irrelevant to being French, which is seen as an idea rather than an ethnicity.

    I am not sure whether the British system of identity politics or the French suppression of identities is best, but it is a distinctly different philosophical approach.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Those who have not drunk the Kool Aid...

    Boris Johnson speech rated less highly than Keir Starmer’s, said voters shown videos by Sky pollster

    Yes it’s an artificial exercise - who knows how many people actually are aware of conference speeches, sorry politicos! - but nevertheless an interesting one


    Opinium results: https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1445844907382480898 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1445846836925902849/photo/1

    Sorry, but "nevertheless an interesting one" is a lie. Boris was an amusing lightweight, Starmer was mogadon man.
    Though having said that:

    Interesting: BoJo 40%, Starmer 41%
    Boring: BoJo 22%, Starmer 28%

    And the other comparisons are quite a bit worse for the PM. See, for example the numbers for strong/weak.

    If he's no more interesting than Starmer, and not much less boring, what exactly is his point?

    (None of this really matters for now, but I can't see why the gentle closing of the gap shouldn't continue.)
  • Can I have an honest assessment on BoJo's speech from those here
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Scott_xP said:

    Those who have not drunk the Kool Aid...

    Boris Johnson speech rated less highly than Keir Starmer’s, said voters shown videos by Sky pollster

    Yes it’s an artificial exercise - who knows how many people actually are aware of conference speeches, sorry politicos! - but nevertheless an interesting one


    Opinium results: https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1445844907382480898 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1445846836925902849/photo/1

    Of the clips shown as his best bits I've seen better from him, in terms of gags. Starmer's best bits taking on hecklers, though probably prepared, seemed more natural than rehearsed, and 'taking on dissenters' is just more interesting than an optimistic scrabble, even if people might prefer the latter at voting time.

    The chat replay on the speech is something else though - PB has nothing on YouTube live chat for schizophrenic commentary:


    Jay King - ​Jokes and gimmicks 🤦🏾‍♂
    Jelly Bean - ​magic potion is right = pharmakia
    DIVINE CHAOS​ - Highest*
    Ko kyaw Myo​ - Save Myanmar
    Matthew​ - OMG GET A HAIR CUT!!! Barney Gumble
    A​ - Boris talking bollox as usual - just want to kill off the poor and disabled in the U.K.!
    K Philo - ​Spending it in the first place was wrong. Focusing on care homes and vulnerable never required broad lockdowns.
    マーティンサイモン​ - UK on its kness....no wonder Scotland wants out
    Shepperton Studios​ - Corduroyed communist cosmonaut was a great way to describe Jezza lmao
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,733
    The situation as it stands in UK politics:


    Chris Curtis
    @chriscurtis94
    ·
    7h
    The main thing he has going for him [Johnson] is that Starmer and Labour's numbers are also pretty grim.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Can I have an honest assessment on BoJo's speech from those here

    Jokes, mainly.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,377
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    Yes but FG and FF still have combined 10% more than SF and FG and FF are the current Irish coalition government. Ireland also has pure PR STV not FPTP so SF cannot benefit from a split vote amongst its opponents
    I think 7% is surprisingly good for the Greens at the moment TBH considering the last time they participated in gvt with FF they got wiped out in 2011.

    Labour and the SDs are also holding steady on 4% and 3% like they got in 2020 so there is the potential for more efficient transferring/seat gains and SF will put up more candidates next time.

    I think some kind of 'left led' gvt is a massive long shot but not completely impossible considering SFs utter dominance with young voters and they probably aren't going anywhere.

    I expect FG and FF would do a deal with Independents if necessary to get a majority if the Greens joined SF and Labour and the SDs
    On those figures, if SF put up more candidates, there's a good chance of a majority for SF + G + L + SD + PBP/S. It would be a hell of a herd of cats, but I think the chance for a first government not including either FF or FG would be one all those parties would be eager to see.

    A long way to go still, but it's notable that the other opposition parties are hardly getting a look in. If the voters do decide to vote against FF & FG then there's not much alternative to a SF-led government.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    algarkirk said:

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    The 'Ireland should rejoin the UK' movement still biding its time I imagine, ready to erupt.
    That the UK should, with a bit of humility, seek to rejoin Ireland would be the better way; an unrealisable dream, but what a wonderful one. What you might call the New Zealand solution to having two islands close together.

    It would have to rejoin the EU first
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,792

    Can I have an honest assessment on BoJo's speech from those here

    Very entertaining. Devoid of any content.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
    New thread.
  • NEW THREAD

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited October 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sinn Féin now have a ten point lead in Ireland:

    Sinn Féin: 32%
    Fine Gael: 22%
    Fianna Fáil: 20%

    https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/1445826534682464262

    Yes but FG and FF still have combined 10% more than SF and FG and FF are the current Irish coalition government. Ireland also has pure PR STV not FPTP so SF cannot benefit from a split vote amongst its opponents
    I think 7% is surprisingly good for the Greens at the moment TBH considering the last time they participated in gvt with FF they got wiped out in 2011.

    Labour and the SDs are also holding steady on 4% and 3% like they got in 2020 so there is the potential for more efficient transferring/seat gains and SF will put up more candidates next time.

    I think some kind of 'left led' gvt is a massive long shot but not completely impossible considering SFs utter dominance with young voters and they probably aren't going anywhere.

    I expect FG and FF would do a deal with Independents if necessary to get a majority if the Greens joined SF and Labour and the SDs
    On those figures, if SF put up more candidates, there's a good chance of a majority for SF + G + L + SD + PBP/S. It would be a hell of a herd of cats, but I think the chance for a first government not including either FF or FG would be one all those parties would be eager to see.

    A long way to go still, but it's notable that the other opposition parties are hardly getting a look in. If the voters do decide to vote against FF & FG then there's not much alternative to a SF-led government.
    It does certainly seem likely that FF and FG are now effectively becoming the main centre right block in Ireland, FG a little more socially liberal than FF, FF a little more economically statist than FG with SF the main party of the centre left in Ireland.

    The days of the FF and FG battle for power between each other is over, now they are effectively united against SF
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,935
    edited October 2021
    I see the usual Scottish Independence Referendum arguments are being rehashed again. As long as Sturgeon continues to lead the SNP, there won’t be a referendum, or even a request for one.

    Assuming Sturgeon is still SNP leader at the time of the next General Election, I can forsee three things happening.
    Some SNP voters will switch to Alba.
    Some will return to Labour.
    Some will stay at home.

    If this happens, how many seats will the SNP lose? My estimate is that they will lose around 10 seats to Labour and fail to win any seats from any of the other parties.

    Would it be enough for Sturgeon to be replaced?

    Would it be enough to prevent another Conservative government?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,180

    Off topic, why are natural gas prices being quoted in pence per Therm. What sort of antiquated unit is that?

    Let's use kWh or kJ. Even MMBTU would be better.

    Nah - Therms sound nice and cosy and warm (literally nearly) , KWH or KJ sound soulless without the advantage of making it any easier to mentally picture the amount (unlike say metres can ) .

    Also like the fact that oil is measured in barrels !
    Pretty much all gas pricing (Henry Hub) is in $/mmbtu.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Can I have an honest assessment on BoJo's speech from those here

    The jokes are serious.

    That's Johnson's brand, which means there's nothing there now apart from anecdotes, slogans and narratives.

    Which I think is what Cummings is thinking of when he says Johnson is unfit for office. Cummings is malign in my view but he is results driven and a good project manager. His slogans "take back control", "get Brexit done" etc served a purpose - to get majorities for Leave and the Conservatives. Now the slogans and narratives are the end purpose.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Can I have an honest assessment on BoJo's speech from those here

    Just watched it. I thought it was all over the place. It wasn't overlong, his style is hard to follow but generally engaging, but with that it didn't seem structured so I found it hard to focus on what his key points were - long diversions followed by a whiplash inducing turn to a suddenly important point or theme eg when suddenly bigging up capitalism. Surprised he left it til about 3/4 through to bring up the Labour position around Covid.

    I thought his many shout outs to Cabinet Members interesting, as I don't remember as many references in Starmer's speech, though they may have slipped by.

    Overall C+. It got the job done, nothing obviously wrong with it. But I'd not have known the theme was 'Build Back Better' without it written in front of him.
  • I see the usual Scottish Independence Referendum arguments are being rehashed again. As long as Sturgeon continues to lead the SNP, there won’t be a referendum, or even a request for one.

    Assuming Sturgeon is still SNP leader at the time of the next General Election, I can forsee three things happening.
    Some SNP voters will switch to Alba.
    Some will return to Labour.
    Some will stay at home.

    If this happens, how many seats will the SNP lose? My estimate is that they will lose around 10 seats to Labour and fail to win any seats from any of the other parties.

    Would it be enough for Sturgeon to be replaced?

    Would it be enough to prevent another Conservative government?

    I do wonder TBH. I was surprised how well the SNP vote held together on the constituency vote in May across the board considering the divisions in the independence movement. I expected the SNP to lose a few seats potentially putting the SNP+Grn majority in danger rather than end 1 seat up.

    I think there will be a large chunk of anti Tory tactical voting among some anti Johnson unionists for the SNP like 2019 at the next GE but I don't know if apolitical hard core indy voters will stay at home in 2023/24 like 2017 if no indy referendum has happened and become demoralised. Who knows?

    As I've said before I think people are simultaneously underestimating the long term resilience of the SNP at least at Holyrood and getting wrong the likelihood of a 2nd referendum EVER happening. This strange new equilibrium could hold for a long time.

    A partial Labour recovery in Scotland is possible if/after Labour eventually gets into gvt at Westminster but Labour will probably not get more than 20 MPs in Scotland as a maximum in future.


  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    edited October 2021
    Wrong thread
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,857
    edited October 2021

    Wrong thread

    "It's the wrong thread, Gromit!"
This discussion has been closed.