YouGov finds little support for re-entering the Afghan war – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Did you hear the NPR piece (on Marketplace, I think), where they looked at the Taliban's revenue sources. Taxation now seems to be the biggest source - both the traditional taxation on trade, and the protection taxation of infrastructure such as cell phone towers.rcs1000 said:
The Taliban need money, and the drug trade isn't paying what it used to (thanks to competition from China).Sandpit said:How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.
Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.
It is therefore entirely possible that - while life will be pretty miserable for many ordinary Afghanis - this has limited impact beyond the initial news cycle.0 -
Yes, Kermit is obviously a fast bowler with those long gangly arms.kle4 said:
I'm not sure Kermit was reknowned for the orthodoxy of his forward defensive stroke in fairness.Sandpit said:
That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!DavidL said:
They train???TimT said:
No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
Then why do they bat like muppets?
I'm not so sure about test match play, but Animal and Miss Piggy would make a great opening partnership in T20. Impetuous, yes, but with a bit of luck they could smash a hatful of sixes before being skittled.3 -
While I doubt if re-entering the war is in any way practical, I would not say the Afghans have chosen the Taliban. They have support certainly, but the rest have little option but to bow to the inevitable.another_richard said:Re-enter what war ?
The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.
Regrettable but the reality.
Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.
But that's a different issue.3 -
Well here’s hoping. The only people who can really get rid of these psychopathic loons are other Afghans who refuse to accept that history and ethics wasn’t fully crystallised by the 13th century.rottenborough said:
Chair of Defence Select Committee says that this not over by a long way: civil war will develop.another_richard said:Re-enter what war ?
The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.
Regrettable but the reality.
Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.
But that's a different issue.0 -
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.0 -
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope3 -
Evening all
For now, superficially, it appears the Taliban are "playing nice" in Kabul.
Well, yes - after all, many reports from Berlin in 1945 said the first wave of Russian troops, the combat soldiers, were correct in their dealings with the German population. The rapes and pillage began with the follow-up and support troops.
How things will be once the world's eyes are elsewhere remains to be seen.
From 1945-89, we maintained a large defensive glacis against a seemingly powerful military threat just two hours from the Rhine. We understood that - we knew what might and perhaps would happen if deterrence failed and war broke out in Central Europe. The options were victory, surrender or annihilation.
Islamic fundamentalism isn't Soviet Communism. In the end, ultimately, the Soviet system proved as brittle as the recently collapsed Afghan Government - with a few exceptions (the Securitate in Romania), no one was prepared to fight and die for Marxism in East Berlin, Prague or Budapest in 1989.
That's the difference between ideology and faith - the latter is so much more powerful. How do you fight or reason with a zealot? You can't - if their end goal is the conversion of your society to one which matches theirs, your options are similarly limited. The problem is the reach of faith is so much greater than it was before. The Internet radicalises individuals far from any actual battlefields.
I don't have any answers - I know we are not the Roman Empire. We may feel comfortable with a Pax Americana but it was never going to work even after 1989. Garrisoning far off countries in an attempt to keep the barbarian from the gate is old thinking unfit for the digital age.1 -
It's just the likes of HYUFD insisting that Scotnats are traitors while denying their own history. You are quite right to emphasise we need to look at history. But there is a limit to which one must be bound by it, or to accuse one's opponents of being what the party under their name was in say 1940, unless of course the opponents themselves keep invoking that.Nigel_Foremain said:
Might be worth reading into this a little more. MI5 perhaps had good reasons for recommending his release.Carnyx said:
Donaldson is dealt with elsewhere.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think you will find Arthur Donaldson was once a leader of the SNP and was a fascist sympathiser (or at least espoused the benefits to the cause of Britain losing to the Nazis), as was Andrew Dewar Gibb QC. Divisive nationalism is only a short step from fascism. It is an inconvenient truth for nationalists of all stripesCarnyx said:
Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
I think it might be a little more plausible if nationalists accepted they have an inglorious past in relationship to fascism, just as some Tories did and even the royal family. To try and claim that it did not exist is just denial and an attempt to rewrite history.
I'm still massively struck by the contrast between the ruling parties in England and (as a minority government) Scotland when the Churchill and Bruce statues were vandalised. Massive difference in reaction. the Tories really, really care about WW2 in a way that is almost unique outside the Right.
I've actually been rechecking the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography entry on Gibb. Not what some might expect. He was a keen supporter of Empire and WW2. He was actually a Tory first and foremost (in the general sense) - active in the Unionist Party and coming out with what sounds like the usual Unionist anti-irish stuff (very common in those days [edit] and certainly also seen in elements of the Scottish nationalist movement in the past). But he was increasingly unhappy with the centralisation of Unionism and moved to Scottish nationalism albeit as a Tory devolutionist more than anything else. But what became the SNP was too leftie for him in the end and he more or less gave up politics and became part of the establishment.0 -
rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope0 -
I did not, but I did know that "telecommunications" exports (i.e. the US government and military using cell phones in Afghanistan) was something like $70m - i.e. more than 10% of total exports. With the Americans mostly gone, I think we can assume that's going to be going to close to zero, and one would think that would impact the taxation revenues from cell phone towers.TimT said:
Did you hear the NPR piece (on Marketplace, I think), where they looked at the Taliban's revenue sources. Taxation now seems to be the biggest source - both the traditional taxation on trade, and the protection taxation of infrastructure such as cell phone towers.rcs1000 said:
The Taliban need money, and the drug trade isn't paying what it used to (thanks to competition from China).Sandpit said:How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.
Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.
It is therefore entirely possible that - while life will be pretty miserable for many ordinary Afghanis - this has limited impact beyond the initial news cycle.0 -
Given how bloody civil wars tend to be in Muslim countries - Libya, Syria, Iraq as examples - its absence during the last month is notable.Sean_F said:
While I doubt if re-entering the war is in any way practical, I would not say the Afghans have chosen the Taliban. They have support certainly, but the rest have little option but to bow to the inevitable.another_richard said:Re-enter what war ?
The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.
Regrettable but the reality.
Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.
But that's a different issue.1 -
Qatar has hosted their political leaders for a while. If Afghanistan became like Qatar it wouldn't be so bad. Better still if they could find any degree of prosperity.another_richard said:
Given how bloody civil wars tend to be in Muslim countries - Libya, Syria, Iraq as examples - its absence during the last month is notable.Sean_F said:
While I doubt if re-entering the war is in any way practical, I would not say the Afghans have chosen the Taliban. They have support certainly, but the rest have little option but to bow to the inevitable.another_richard said:Re-enter what war ?
The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.
Regrettable but the reality.
Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.
But that's a different issue.
0 -
How many non-Muslims?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope0 -
When I first read that, I thought it said "Taliban", not "Taiwan"!williamglenn said:China urges the U.S. to stop official contacts, arms sales to, and military ties with Taiwan - Chinese MFA
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Yep you were right on that one. It seemed to make sense to a rational way of thinking and so it proved. Perhaps the same will apply when it comes to reestablishing a Butlins for international terrorist gangs to prepare attacks on the West. That wouldn't be rational either so maybe it won't happen. Maybe they'll take a leaf from the Americans and concentrate on the home front. Make Afghanistan Great - aka a repressive and backward Islamic fundamentalist state - Again.pigeon said:When I left to make the dinner a while ago the discussion was actually on topic. How on Earth did it get back to the zillionth stupid mudslinging fest over another place?
Oh well, never mind. Just about the only good news about the Afghan debacle is it looks as if I may have been right when I said the Taliban had concluded it was in their interest to let the foreigners go in peace. The bad news is that I seem to recall seeing on the news earlier today that the RAF had so far managed to get 300 people out through the airport. Apparently there are 6,000 UK citizens and eligible Afghans awaiting rescue. This is far from ideal...0 -
When I first read that, I thought it said "Taliban", not "Taiwan"!williamglenn said:China urges the U.S. to stop official contacts, arms sales to, and military ties with Taiwan - Chinese MFA
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China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.2
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One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.1 -
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
0 -
"Afghanistan has vast mineral deposits, including coal, copper and iron ore, talc, lithium and uranium, as well as gold, precious stones, oil and gas."DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Foreign Policy magazine.
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I catch the goodies.kjh said:
Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.StuartDickson said:
+1kjh said:Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.
Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.
The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.
Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?
John Loony used to go through archived threads and dig up treasures. Mind you, he was… er… a loony.
I’ve been meaning to go through last week’s threads and compile all the PBers who are Greens. I now stick my hand up and admit I’m not going to manage that. But thank you all who responded. There were a lot more than I I realised. I may well be joining you soon! In the Swedish GE2022 I hasten to add.0 -
I’kinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
I’m shocked. Really shocked. 😂kinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope2 -
That glass ceiling is yet to be broken. It might take a while, I think.Sunil_Prasannan said:
How many non-Muslims?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope0 -
One would hope that they'd have learned their lesson from last time. If you prevent other people's villains from launching attacks from your territory, then yours can do pretty much what they like at home. Caveat: they might decide that being marginally less horrid to women will help them to secure the international aid money that they want. That may depend above all on whether they can get adequate money out of the Chinese, who won't care about such niceties, or if they also need Western aid money and/or don't want to become overly dependent on that nice Mr Xi.kinabalu said:
Yep you were right on that one. It seemed to make sense to a rational way of thinking and so it proved. Perhaps the same will apply when it comes to reestablishing a Butlins for international terrorist gangs to prepare attacks on the West. That wouldn't be rational either so maybe it won't happen. Maybe they'll take a leaf from the Americans and concentrate on the home front. Make Afghanistan Great - aka a repressive and backward Islamic fundamentalist state - Again.pigeon said:When I left to make the dinner a while ago the discussion was actually on topic. How on Earth did it get back to the zillionth stupid mudslinging fest over another place?
Oh well, never mind. Just about the only good news about the Afghan debacle is it looks as if I may have been right when I said the Taliban had concluded it was in their interest to let the foreigners go in peace. The bad news is that I seem to recall seeing on the news earlier today that the RAF had so far managed to get 300 people out through the airport. Apparently there are 6,000 UK citizens and eligible Afghans awaiting rescue. This is far from ideal...
Regardless, I'm reasonably sure that liberal interventionism has had its day as a response to the threat of terrorism or its toleration by unfriendly governments. If something like 9/11 happened nowadays then retaliation would more likely come from drone strikes or barrages of cruise missiles.2 -
You have also prompted me to refresh my memory of the Donaldson affair and that story of HYUFD's - it seemed so suspicious given the feeding of information to the Germans by intelligence agencies that I found it hard to take seriously. I found this which I hadn't come across: very much pointing to misinformation and black ops:Nigel_Foremain said:
Might be worth reading into this a little more. MI5 perhaps had good reasons for recommending his release.Carnyx said:
Donaldson is dealt with elsewhere.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think you will find Arthur Donaldson was once a leader of the SNP and was a fascist sympathiser (or at least espoused the benefits to the cause of Britain losing to the Nazis), as was Andrew Dewar Gibb QC. Divisive nationalism is only a short step from fascism. It is an inconvenient truth for nationalists of all stripesCarnyx said:
Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
I think it might be a little more plausible if nationalists accepted they have an inglorious past in relationship to fascism, just as some Tories did and even the royal family. To try and claim that it did not exist is just denial and an attempt to rewrite history.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jun/03/theobserver.uknews1
In any case, the failure to imprison him beyond investigation (or even charge him) speaks for itself (and Gibb too). This was a time when they were arresting and banging up a nearby Tory MP, as I said, and deporting the local ice cream making family (who went down in the Arandora Star) for the crime of being Italian - all very much remembered in family memory. And imprisoning German Jews on Mann.
Intderestingly, Oxford DNB says that his opposition to the war, conscription, etc. was based on the principle that Scotland had not beeb democratically represented in the decisions involved - not because he was inherently a fascist. he certaionly wouldn't be the only politician in the hope of attaining, or keeping, national independence at that time - massively misguided as (in hindsight) it appears.
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"Afghanistan has vast mineral deposits, including coal, copper and iron ore, talc, lithium and uranium, as well as gold, precious stones, oil and gas."DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Foreign Policy magazine.
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It’s hardly a new concept. John Smith, Robin Cook, Donald Dewar, Gordon Brown, Henry McLeish etc used that formula with terrific success for decades. Then Scottish Labour transmogrified into British Nationalists (thanks Dave and Ruth!) and the rest is history.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.
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I'm not sure what an alleged socialist is doing talking about soft nationalism. Firstly I didn't think they approved of nationalism. Secondly there's no such thing as soft nationalism anyway. Soft nationalism, as we have already discovered, means playing the whining about colonialism card the second a politician just over the border accuses you of being bad at something, rather than taking the trouble to offer actual evidence to the contrary.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.
We know where soft nationalism will end. An old remark about motorways with no exits springs to mind.1 -
Owen Jones Rose
@OwenJones84
What TV series is your default comfort watch you always return to? Mine’s This Life. Go!
Blimey. Some of the answers? Great TV shows, but "comfort watch"??
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China takes the opportunity to talk shite
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231691.shtml#.YRvrz0ozeA0.twitter
If there are US troops present on Taiwan island, China will crush them by force:1 -
Blackpool?pigeon said:
I'm not sure what an alleged socialist is doing talking about soft nationalism. Firstly I didn't think they approved of nationalism. Secondly there's no such thing as soft nationalism anyway. Soft nationalism, as we have already discovered, means playing the whining about colonialism card the second a politician just over the border accuses you of being bad at something, rather than taking the trouble to offer actual evidence to the contrary.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.
We know where soft nationalism will end. An old remark about motorways with no exits springs to mind.0 -
To be honest, for a moment I thought Bastani's account had been hacked to be honest. I mean "social democracy"?pigeon said:
I'm not sure what an alleged socialist is doing talking about soft nationalism. Firstly I didn't think they approved of nationalism. Secondly there's no such thing as soft nationalism anyway. Soft nationalism, as we have already discovered, means playing the whining about colonialism card the second a politician just over the border accuses you of being bad at something, rather than taking the trouble to offer actual evidence to the contrary.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.
We know where soft nationalism will end. An old remark about motorways with no exits springs to mind.
That's like evil Blair/Brown doctrine that ruined Labour forever isn't it??0 -
For @NickPalmer and anyone else who may want to help, this - https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1427611886925844480?s=21 - provides a link to some of the charities in Afghanistan and to refugees resettled here.2
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A list of names from Lab's past which I would have thought Bastani and chums would have said were worse than Tories and sold out and had not idea about the real lives of the working class etc etc etc...StuartDickson said:
It’s hardly a new concept. John Smith, Robin Cook, Donald Dewar, Gordon Brown, Henry McLeish etc used that formula with terrific success for decades. Then Scottish Labour transmogrified into British Nationalists (thanks Dave and Ruth!) and the rest is history.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.0 -
Nah, the M55 has a few exits.IanB2 said:
Blackpool?pigeon said:
I'm not sure what an alleged socialist is doing talking about soft nationalism. Firstly I didn't think they approved of nationalism. Secondly there's no such thing as soft nationalism anyway. Soft nationalism, as we have already discovered, means playing the whining about colonialism card the second a politician just over the border accuses you of being bad at something, rather than taking the trouble to offer actual evidence to the contrary.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.
We know where soft nationalism will end. An old remark about motorways with no exits springs to mind.0 -
If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-24777569
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Yeah but nationalism it is everywhere you look. Look at the UK, Brexit and afterwards. Its really all the same thing.pigeon said:
I'm not sure what an alleged socialist is doing talking about soft nationalism. Firstly I didn't think they approved of nationalism. Secondly there's no such thing as soft nationalism anyway. Soft nationalism, as we have already discovered, means playing the whining about colonialism card the second a politician just over the border accuses you of being bad at something, rather than taking the trouble to offer actual evidence to the contrary.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.
We know where soft nationalism will end. An old remark about motorways with no exits springs to mind.
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I’m sure, given their commitment to net zero, the Chinese will pass on that.rottenborough said:
"Afghanistan has vast mineral deposits, including coal, copper and iron ore, talc, lithium and uranium, as well as gold, precious stones, oil and gas."DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Foreign Policy magazine.0 -
Crikey, you're right! All that heaping praise on nationalism meant I'd failed to appreciate the heaping praise on social democracy. I'm not sure which is the more surprising.rottenborough said:
To be honest, for a moment I thought Bastani's account had been hacked to be honest. I mean "social democracy"?pigeon said:
I'm not sure what an alleged socialist is doing talking about soft nationalism. Firstly I didn't think they approved of nationalism. Secondly there's no such thing as soft nationalism anyway. Soft nationalism, as we have already discovered, means playing the whining about colonialism card the second a politician just over the border accuses you of being bad at something, rather than taking the trouble to offer actual evidence to the contrary.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.
We know where soft nationalism will end. An old remark about motorways with no exits springs to mind.
That's like evil Blair/Brown doctrine that ruined Labour forever isn't it??0 -
Much as I am chuffed by you reading my old post, and then your kind words here and also when commenting in agreement to my original post but there has been a downside to all this which is:StuartDickson said:
I catch the goodies.kjh said:
Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.StuartDickson said:
+1kjh said:Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.
Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.
The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.
Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?
John Loony used to go through archived threads and dig up treasures. Mind you, he was… er… a loony.
I’ve been meaning to go through last week’s threads and compile all the PBers who are Greens. I now stick my hand up and admit I’m not going to manage that. But thank you all who responded. There were a lot more than I I realised. I may well be joining you soon! In the Swedish GE2022 I hasten to add.
You got 2 likes for agreeing with me and I got none for the original post. I'm not bitter or anything but......9 -
Well, first they destroyed their export industry via production of fentanyl, then they offer to go in and help by building some mines.DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Of course, while there is a theoretical land path between Afghanistan and China, getting material out will be extremely expensive - certainly 5-6x more expensive than simply shipping stuff from Africa (which the Chinese have already bought up).0 -
There's at least a couple of transgender Taliban in the cabinet, surely?kinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope2 -
More beards than a Republican convention for the preservation of Christian values and the traditional familykinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope3 -
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1427649038397100033
"Taliban spokesperson- Our women are Muslims and they'll be happy to live within Sharia law"
Of course they are ........0 -
I don't think it's a "transitional" government!rcs1000 said:
There's at least a couple of transgender Taliban in the cabinet, surely?kinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope1 -
I think that the problem with this hypothesis is that anyone gives a damn about what Annelise Dodds thinks about anything.StuartDickson said:If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-247775691 -
The rest of the UK would stand for a Labour minority propped up by SNP. They have to say these things but the problem won't be solved until the SNP are going after either a resurgent Scottish Labour or a Tory/LD coalition in Holyrood?StuartDickson said:If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-247775690 -
Upgrade the Pakistani rail network and build a couple of branches into Afghanistan. The goods can all be hauled to Karachi. Job done.rcs1000 said:
Well, first they destroyed their export industry via production of fentanyl, then they offer to go in and help by building some mines.DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Of course, while there is a theoretical land path between Afghanistan and China, getting material out will be extremely expensive - certainly 5-6x more expensive than simply shipping stuff from Africa (which the Chinese have already bought up).0 -
Well, good luck with that.Floater said:China takes the opportunity to talk shite
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231691.shtml#.YRvrz0ozeA0.twitter
If there are US troops present on Taiwan island, China will crush them by force:0 -
There was a cartoon a while back with someone looking at their computer observing "That's strange, all the Electoral College experts are now pandemic experts".....JosiasJessop said:
Oh, come on. If PB is a guide, then not having a clue about a topic is no reason to feel a dick about expressing strong opinions on the topic.Theuniondivvie said:Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?
For instance, the way some Scottish Nationalists opine on the unique evils of England and the English ...
1 -
Yeah. But so does Mongolia and Papua New Guinea and most of Africa.rottenborough said:
"Afghanistan has vast mineral deposits, including coal, copper and iron ore, talc, lithium and uranium, as well as gold, precious stones, oil and gas."DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Foreign Policy magazine.
But that doesn't mean that they'll be sensibly exported. Take coal. The minehead price is tiny - Powder River Basin coal is something like $12/tonne. But coal delivered at (say) a port in the UK is $100/tonne.
Getting coal from a mine by a port is one thing. Getting it from Afghanistan is something entirely different. It would cost $1,000+/tonne to get it to anyone because it's a landlocked country with no infrastructure.
Now, it may be that there is an opportunity with other minerals, oil and gas - but Mongolia is instructive. It's stable politically. It's much less geographically isolated. And it's at least as well endowed as Afghanistan.
They've been on a two decade long push to get investment - whether from the (next door) Chinese or from Australian or other foreign mining companies. And it's worked, to an extent.
But in two decades, they've managed to open three or four mines, and to increase exports from bugger all to not very much.
It'd be a real struggle for Afghanistan - which has no roads, no electricity, no skilled labour, etc. - to do any better than Mongolia.1 -
Also missing. I fear we're going to see a reactionary sterile groupthink on policy.rcs1000 said:
There's at least a couple of transgender Taliban in the cabinet, surely?kinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope1 -
To be fair, the “distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ nationalism and some social democracy” tradition goes back *a lot* further than the folk I mentioned. All the way back to Keir Hardie and Cunninghame Graham themselves. William Adamson, Tom Johnston, Willie Ross, Bruce Millan… they were all at it.rottenborough said:
A list of names from Lab's past which I would have thought Bastani and chums would have said were worse than Tories and sold out and had not idea about the real lives of the working class etc etc etc...StuartDickson said:
It’s hardly a new concept. John Smith, Robin Cook, Donald Dewar, Gordon Brown, Henry McLeish etc used that formula with terrific success for decades. Then Scottish Labour transmogrified into British Nationalists (thanks Dave and Ruth!) and the rest is history.rottenborough said:One for @Big_G_NorthWales ?
Aaron Bastani
@AaronBastani
·
1h
Mark Drakeford is arguably Britain’s most effective politician, carving out a distinct space encompassing ‘soft’ Welsh nationalism and some social democracy. It’s very popular.
And then you have the Tory equivalents like John Buchan et al. That’s when Tories were popular in Scotland.0 -
Have you looked at Google Maps?pigeon said:
Upgrade the Pakistani rail network and build a couple of branches into Afghanistan. The goods can all be hauled to Karachi. Job done.rcs1000 said:
Well, first they destroyed their export industry via production of fentanyl, then they offer to go in and help by building some mines.DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Of course, while there is a theoretical land path between Afghanistan and China, getting material out will be extremely expensive - certainly 5-6x more expensive than simply shipping stuff from Africa (which the Chinese have already bought up).0 -
According to the Taliban, they do not discriminate against women in forming their government. The only limiting criterion is that you must have a full beard to be eligible.2
-
Those remarks are probably for the benefit of Labour's lost voters in England more than their lost voters in another place. I'm quite sure that Ms Dodds would suddenly discover that she had a great deal in common with Ms Sturgeon if the support of her MPs became important after the next GE.StuartDickson said:If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-247775690 -
With 3D switched on!rcs1000 said:
Have you looked at Google Maps?pigeon said:
Upgrade the Pakistani rail network and build a couple of branches into Afghanistan. The goods can all be hauled to Karachi. Job done.rcs1000 said:
Well, first they destroyed their export industry via production of fentanyl, then they offer to go in and help by building some mines.DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Of course, while there is a theoretical land path between Afghanistan and China, getting material out will be extremely expensive - certainly 5-6x more expensive than simply shipping stuff from Africa (which the Chinese have already bought up).0 -
Yeah. My screen's flat. So what?rcs1000 said:
Have you looked at Google Maps?pigeon said:
Upgrade the Pakistani rail network and build a couple of branches into Afghanistan. The goods can all be hauled to Karachi. Job done.rcs1000 said:
Well, first they destroyed their export industry via production of fentanyl, then they offer to go in and help by building some mines.DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Of course, while there is a theoretical land path between Afghanistan and China, getting material out will be extremely expensive - certainly 5-6x more expensive than simply shipping stuff from Africa (which the Chinese have already bought up). 0 -
Yep. That's the realms we're in, I think. Narrow view of the world with little tolerance for difference and dissenters. It's surprisingly popular in places.Theuniondivvie said:
More beards than a Republican convention for the preservation of Christian values and the traditional familykinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope0 -
Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/0 -
Things might look very different when it's no longer a hypothetical. As pigeon says it may help assure others is all.StuartDickson said:If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-247775691 -
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/0 -
Well of course we give a damn about what the *checks wikipedia* Chair of the Labour Party thinks.DavidL said:
I think that the problem with this hypothesis is that anyone gives a damn about what Annelise Dodds thinks about anything.StuartDickson said:If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-247775691 -
I see the social conservatives are complaining about censorship on Facebook again
https://twitter.com/MLiamMcCollum/status/1427658106054406149?s=190 -
I thought John was King of England not King of Scotland?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/
I mean, Edward I and all that, but that was two generations later.0 -
Afghanistan will embolden China geopolitically as they'll view it as a sign of terminal Western decadence and weakness.0
-
They just want to assert their rights as Englishmen under the Acts of Union.rpjs said:
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/0 -
How Labour play this issue in the run up to the GE is going to be crucial.pigeon said:
Those remarks are probably for the benefit of Labour's lost voters in England more than their lost voters in another place. I'm quite sure that Ms Dodds would suddenly discover that she had a great deal in common with Ms Sturgeon if the support of her MPs became important after the next GE.StuartDickson said:If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-24777569
Almost as crucial as how they play things after the election.
If they want to become less popular than the 2015 Lib Dems, they’ll think about any sort of deal with the SNP in a very unstable Parliament.0 -
The Chinese built a railway to Lhasa. They could extend a couple of routes across the Afghan-Pak border if they were so minded, I'm sure.rcs1000 said:
Have you looked at Google Maps?pigeon said:
Upgrade the Pakistani rail network and build a couple of branches into Afghanistan. The goods can all be hauled to Karachi. Job done.rcs1000 said:
Well, first they destroyed their export industry via production of fentanyl, then they offer to go in and help by building some mines.DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Of course, while there is a theoretical land path between Afghanistan and China, getting material out will be extremely expensive - certainly 5-6x more expensive than simply shipping stuff from Africa (which the Chinese have already bought up).
OTOH your remarks about Mongolia's travails are, admittedly, instructive.1 -
Blimey, it will be as bad as Corbynism.kinabalu said:
Also missing. I fear we're going to see a reactionary sterile groupthink on policy.rcs1000 said:
There's at least a couple of transgender Taliban in the cabinet, surely?kinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope0 -
No, and not only that, clause (not article) 61 extended to 25 Barons, not anybody else, and was dropped from the final version.rpjs said:
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/
Only four of the 63 clauses in Magna Carta are still valid today - 1 (part), 13, 39 and 40. Of enduring importance to people appealing to the charter over the last 800 years are the famous clauses 39 and 40:
“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.
“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”
These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/originsofparliament/birthofparliament/overview/magnacarta/magnacartaclauses/2 -
Some better polls for the Liberals in Canada this evening (morning Canadian time).
The most recent is IPSOS:
https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/Out-of-the-Starting-Blocks-More-of-the-Same
Libs 36, Cons 31, NDP 20 so a very small swing from Conservative to Liberal (roughly 1%) since October 2019.
We'll have a discussion about Estonian politics another time but the EKRE have taken the lead in a poll and I can't recall that happening.0 -
Don't think it applies. Certainly didn't for Craig Murray.CarlottaVance said:
No, and not only that, clause (not article) 61 extended to 25 Barons, not anybody else, and was dropped from the final version.rpjs said:
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/
Only four of the 63 clauses in Magna Carta are still valid today - 1 (part), 13, 39 and 40. Of enduring importance to people appealing to the charter over the last 800 years are the famous clauses 39 and 40:
“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.
“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”
These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/originsofparliament/birthofparliament/overview/magnacarta/magnacartaclauses/0 -
Why?kle4 said:
Well of course we give a damn about what the *checks wikipedia* Chair of the Labour Party thinks.DavidL said:
I think that the problem with this hypothesis is that anyone gives a damn about what Annelise Dodds thinks about anything.StuartDickson said:If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-247775690 -
Taliban collapses with laughter as journalist asks if they would be willing to accept democratic governance that voted in female politicians - and then tells camera to stop filming. “It made me laugh” he says.
https://twitter.com/dpatrikarakos/status/1427567411692244992?s=200 -
As if they've got any choice.Floater said:https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1427649038397100033
"Taliban spokesperson- Our women are Muslims and they'll be happy to live within Sharia law"
Of course they are ........4 -
Who will have a female leader first.kinabalu said:
None. Monogender. Monoreligion. Stultifying.DavidL said:rcs1000 said:
Of course they're not cuddly. They're extremely unpleasant.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
But they're also extremely poor. Their (legal) exports cover barely a tenth of their essential imports of food, fuel and electricity.
This limits their ability to cause trouble without (at the very least) the backing of someone richer.
How many women?kinabalu said:
Yes we can hope. First impressions of that Taliban cabinet are not great though. I'm particularly perturbed by the lack of diversity.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
Taliban 4/6
Labour 11/1013 -
Well, I suppose they are in Edinburgh which is of course a Saxon city.williamglenn said:
They just want to assert their rights as Englishmen under the Acts of Union.rpjs said:
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/0 -
And they're right to think that.Casino_Royale said:Afghanistan will embolden China geopolitically as they'll view it as a sign of terminal Western decadence and weakness.
The US has told the Taliban: don't terrorise us and you can be free to terrorise your people as much as you like.
Also even if terrorists return to Afghanistan and start planning attacks on the US from there, can anyone now really be confident that the US would retaliate? They might launch some drone or missile at some target that wouldn't eliminate anything at all. So the Taliban and any terror grouping that feels like it are probably free to do whatever they want.1 -
(I would add that Mongolia has direct rail links to both China and to Russia and its Pacific port.)pigeon said:
The Chinese built a railway to Lhasa. They could extend a couple of routes across the Afghan-Pak border if they were so minded, I'm sure.rcs1000 said:
Have you looked at Google Maps?pigeon said:
Upgrade the Pakistani rail network and build a couple of branches into Afghanistan. The goods can all be hauled to Karachi. Job done.rcs1000 said:
Well, first they destroyed their export industry via production of fentanyl, then they offer to go in and help by building some mines.DavidL said:China will end up buying up Afghanistan. The process has already started, hence the Taleban’s indifference to the genocide of the Uighers. It is chump change for the Chinese. Only the Pakistanis will be cross.
Of course, while there is a theoretical land path between Afghanistan and China, getting material out will be extremely expensive - certainly 5-6x more expensive than simply shipping stuff from Africa (which the Chinese have already bought up).
OTOH your remarks about Mongolia's travails are, admittedly, instructive.0 -
You may have misread the intent of my post.DavidL said:
Why?kle4 said:
Well of course we give a damn about what the *checks wikipedia* Chair of the Labour Party thinks.DavidL said:
I think that the problem with this hypothesis is that anyone gives a damn about what Annelise Dodds thinks about anything.StuartDickson said:If this report is true, it has huge implications on the Next PM market:
‘SNP 'not a progressive party' and Labour won't strike deal with Nationalists in future, claims Anneliese Dodds’
Asked if Labour members would be happy with a deal with the SNP, if it meant the party returning to power at Westminster, Dodds said: "No, it would not be a benefit, as ultimately the SNP is not a progressive political party in my view."
Dodds said: "I want to see Labour in a position in which we win that next general election. I really think we need to have that Labour representation - it's Labour that is the party of progressive socialism.
“I was brought up in the north-east of Scotland and I really want to see us winning seats again.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-not-progressive-party-labour-247775691 -
Has it been disclosed exactly what these people are protesting about in the first place, anyway?CarlottaVance said:
No, and not only that, clause (not article) 61 extended to 25 Barons, not anybody else, and was dropped from the final version.rpjs said:
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/
Only four of the 63 clauses in Magna Carta are still valid today - 1 (part), 13, 39 and 40. Of enduring importance to people appealing to the charter over the last 800 years are the famous clauses 39 and 40:
“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.
“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”
These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/originsofparliament/birthofparliament/overview/magnacarta/magnacartaclauses/
They might be cross about perceived infractions of the liberties of the English church for all we know...0 -
I’m mildly amused that they think they are the 25 Anglo-Norman barons who could claim redress by force if necessary.CarlottaVance said:
No, and not only that, clause (not article) 61 extended to 25 Barons, not anybody else, and was dropped from the final version.rpjs said:
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/
Only four of the 63 clauses in Magna Carta are still valid today - 1 (part), 13, 39 and 40. Of enduring importance to people appealing to the charter over the last 800 years are the famous clauses 39 and 40:
“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.
“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”
These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/originsofparliament/birthofparliament/overview/magnacarta/magnacartaclauses/
Delusional, much?
Here’s the list of people they apparently think they are:
https://magnacarta800th.com/schools/biographies/the-25-barons-of-magna-carta/1 -
You can inflict an enormous amount of damage from the air. Let's just hope that the capacity and will of the Americans to do that to Afghanistan is never tested.Cyclefree said:
And they're right to think that.Casino_Royale said:Afghanistan will embolden China geopolitically as they'll view it as a sign of terminal Western decadence and weakness.
The US has told the Taliban: don't terrorise us and you can be free to terrorise your people as much as you like.
Also even if terrorists return to Afghanistan and start planning attacks on the US from there, can anyone now really be confident that the US would retaliate? They might launch some drone or missile at some target that wouldn't eliminate anything at all. So the Taliban and any terror grouping that feels like it are probably free to do whatever they want.0 -
I think you are giving them too much credit for getting to the Baronial part.ydoethur said:
I’m mildly amused that they think they are the 25 Anglo-Norman barons who could claim redress by force if necessary.CarlottaVance said:
No, and not only that, clause (not article) 61 extended to 25 Barons, not anybody else, and was dropped from the final version.rpjs said:
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/
Only four of the 63 clauses in Magna Carta are still valid today - 1 (part), 13, 39 and 40. Of enduring importance to people appealing to the charter over the last 800 years are the famous clauses 39 and 40:
“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.
“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”
These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/originsofparliament/birthofparliament/overview/magnacarta/magnacartaclauses/
Delusional, much?
Here’s the list of people they apparently think they are:
https://magnacarta800th.com/schools/biographies/the-25-barons-of-magna-carta/
Besides, I'm sure Charles knows a few of their descendents and some of them might be willing to help out.0 -
I know I express my happiness at a course of action by not doing it until forced to.Cyclefree said:
As if they've got any choice.Floater said:https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1427649038397100033
"Taliban spokesperson- Our women are Muslims and they'll be happy to live within Sharia law"
Of course they are ........
0 -
They've got a choice.Cyclefree said:
As if they've got any choice.Floater said:https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1427649038397100033
"Taliban spokesperson- Our women are Muslims and they'll be happy to live within Sharia law"
Of course they are ........
They can be happy to live within Sharia law, or they can be happy to be brutally raped and murdered.0 -
According to Morning Consult's new poll US voters support the withdrawal from Afghanistan overall by 49% to 37%.Cyclefree said:
And they're right to think that.Casino_Royale said:Afghanistan will embolden China geopolitically as they'll view it as a sign of terminal Western decadence and weakness.
The US has told the Taliban: don't terrorise us and you can be free to terrorise your people as much as you like.
Also even if terrorists return to Afghanistan and start planning attacks on the US from there, can anyone now really be confident that the US would retaliate? They might launch some drone or missile at some target that wouldn't eliminate anything at all. So the Taliban and any terror grouping that feels like it are probably free to do whatever they want.
If it creates an opening for Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups to establish operations in Afghanistan again however then by 48% to 35% US voters believe there should still be a US military presence in Afghanistan.
So whether by air strikes or ground troops if terrorists return the US would most likely respond with some form of military force
https://morningconsult.com/2021/08/16/afghanistan-withdrawal-taliban-polling/
0 -
In other Scottish news - this will interest a number of PBers given the recent discvussion of Rum
:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/17/kinloch-castle-curated-decay-ruin-scotland0 -
They will if they know the consequences for women of living outwith Sharia law.Floater said:https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1427649038397100033
"Taliban spokesperson- Our women are Muslims and they'll be happy to live within Sharia law"
Of course they are ........0 -
.
Nothing to do with the nationalists. It's the anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine lot, which tend to be, erm, on the right wing of politics.CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/0 -
They say the Lion and the Lizard keepCarnyx said:In other Scottish news - this will interest a number of PBers given the recent discvussion of Rum
:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/17/kinloch-castle-curated-decay-ruin-scotland
The Courts where Jamshýd gloried and drank deep:
And Bahrám, that great Hunter--the Wild Ass
Stamps o'er his Head, but cannot break his Sleep.
But elf n safety: it will take the place centuries to fall down, and it'll be an insurance nightmare while it does.0 -
IO think he means immediate conversion to a folly. But it's not too clear.IshmaelZ said:
They say the Lion and the Lizard keepCarnyx said:In other Scottish news - this will interest a number of PBers given the recent discvussion of Rum
:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/17/kinloch-castle-curated-decay-ruin-scotland
The Courts where Jamshýd gloried and drank deep:
And Bahrám, that great Hunter--the Wild Ass
Stamps o'er his Head, but cannot break his Sleep.
But elf n safety: it will take the place centuries to fall down, and it'll be an insurance nightmare while it does.0 -
More like Nandon'ts, amiright?
BBC News - Nando's shuts restaurants as it runs short of supplies
https://twitter.com/donaeldunready/status/1427718254567510022
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-582493370 -
I didn't care when KFC experienced trouble, but this is far more serious.Scott_xP said:More like Nandon'ts, amiright?
BBC News - Nando's shuts restaurants as it runs short of supplies
https://twitter.com/donaeldunready/status/1427718254567510022
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-582493371 -
If Nando's shutting down was a part of Project Fear I'd have had to rethink my vote.kle4 said:
I didn't care when KFC experienced trouble, but this is far more serious.Scott_xP said:More like Nandon'ts, amiright?
BBC News - Nando's shuts restaurants as it runs short of supplies
https://twitter.com/donaeldunready/status/1427718254567510022
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-582493370 -
The rationale for letting the place go to rack and ruin is interesting, but it won't happen. Besides the fact that it would likely require primary legislation to override the existing protections afforded this specific building, stripping an edifice of protection and allowing it to fall into ruin because it is unfashionable and/or expensive to maintain would be hugely controversial. Once you allow one listed building to be abandoned, any landowner, community or organisation burdened with maintaining others can also appeal to be excused the trouble.IshmaelZ said:
They say the Lion and the Lizard keepCarnyx said:In other Scottish news - this will interest a number of PBers given the recent discvussion of Rum
:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/17/kinloch-castle-curated-decay-ruin-scotland
The Courts where Jamshýd gloried and drank deep:
And Bahrám, that great Hunter--the Wild Ass
Stamps o'er his Head, but cannot break his Sleep.
But elf n safety: it will take the place centuries to fall down, and it'll be an insurance nightmare while it does.2 -
Clause 61 is the clue. It's much invoked by antilockdowners. No self-respecting independista would cite it when there are the Declaration of Arbroath and De iure regni apud Scotos to quote.pigeon said:
Has it been disclosed exactly what these people are protesting about in the first place, anyway?CarlottaVance said:
No, and not only that, clause (not article) 61 extended to 25 Barons, not anybody else, and was dropped from the final version.rpjs said:
Magna Carta extends to Scotland does it?CarlottaVance said:Joyous & Civic nuts.....
"we have seized Edinburgh Castle".
She continues: "We're waiting to restore the rule of law. We're doing this peacefully and we're doing this lawfully.
"We are using article 61 of the Magna Carta. We have had enough. The people of Scotland have had enough and today we claim our power back.
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-castle-incident-large-police-21335855
FullFact:
https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/
Only four of the 63 clauses in Magna Carta are still valid today - 1 (part), 13, 39 and 40. Of enduring importance to people appealing to the charter over the last 800 years are the famous clauses 39 and 40:
“No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.
“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”
These clauses remain law today, and provided the basis for important principles in English law developed in the fourteenth through to the seventeenth century, and which were exported to America and other English-speaking countries. Their phrasing, ‘to no one' and ‘no free man' gave these provisions a universal quality that is still applicable today in a way that many of the clauses relating specifically to feudal custom are not.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/originsofparliament/birthofparliament/overview/magnacarta/magnacartaclauses/
They might be cross about perceived infractions of the liberties of the English church for all we know...0 -
Yes, but if the problem is the Pingdemic, that's pretty much over now and things will get back to normal over the next couple of weeks.kle4 said:
I didn't care when KFC experienced trouble, but this is far more serious.Scott_xP said:More like Nandon'ts, amiright?
BBC News - Nando's shuts restaurants as it runs short of supplies
https://twitter.com/donaeldunready/status/1427718254567510022
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58249337
Let's see.1 -
It does already happen all the time, though. The owner lets a building rot till it begins to fall on people's heads, or if in a hurry some local ned will carry out a bit of urban improvement.pigeon said:
The rationale for letting the place go to rack and ruin is interesting, but it won't happen. Besides the fact that it would likely require primary legislation to override the existing protections afforded this specific building, stripping an edifice of protection and allowing it to fall into ruin because it is unfashionable and/or expensive to maintain would be hugely controversial. Once you allow one listed building to be abandoned, any landowner, community or organisation burdened with maintaining others can also appeal to be excused the trouble.IshmaelZ said:
They say the Lion and the Lizard keepCarnyx said:In other Scottish news - this will interest a number of PBers given the recent discvussion of Rum
:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/17/kinloch-castle-curated-decay-ruin-scotland
The Courts where Jamshýd gloried and drank deep:
And Bahrám, that great Hunter--the Wild Ass
Stamps o'er his Head, but cannot break his Sleep.
But elf n safety: it will take the place centuries to fall down, and it'll be an insurance nightmare while it does.0
