Allegra Stratton is right to raise questions about EVs – politicalbetting.com

rcs1000 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

"I just wonder as well whether hydrogen-powered cars will prove to be much better for the environment than standard EVs."

But afaik it isn't a realistic option anytime soon, if ever. The chemical process for the enormous and efficient level of production required hasn't been solved, let alone being built and that is before you consider the transportation and storage issues even when you can produce the necessary volumes at the required cost.

Its one of those things that has been thought about for donkeys years and not really any closer to reality, beyond on a small scale.

Hydrogen has all of the disadvantages of both batteries and gasoline.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OT for SPotY punters (random thoughts, not tips)

The cricket T20 World Cup is in November.
The last two Grands Prix are in December which might be too late for Lewis Hamilton.

Olympics:-
Jason Kenny: Britain's most successful Olympian
Laura Kenny: Britain's most successful female Olympian
Charlotte Dujardin: level with LK on number of medals but fewer golds
Adam Peaty: first British swimmer to defend an Olympic title
Duncan Scott: most medals at one Olympics

(ht Racing Post and Daily Telegraph)

rcs1000 said:

In case anyone was thinking I was joking about hydrogen being the worst of both worlds, here's my rough ranking of ICE, hydrogen, and battery.

Performance:
Battery 10/10
ICE 7/10
Hydrogen 3/10

Infrastructure:
ICE 10/10
Battery 6/10
Hydrogen 1/10

Car's interior:
Battery 10/10 (they're using on the floor)
ICE 7/10
Hydrogen 2/10 (petrol sized engine, massive hydrogen tank taking up half your luggage space)

Fuelling time:
ICE 10/10
Hydrogen 9/10*
Battery 2/10

* Assumes you are right next to one of the three places with hydrogen "on tap". Otherwise 1/10, because you'll have to go out your way to find a station

Environmental impact:
Battery 6/10
ICE 3/10
Hydrogen 1/10 (it's *really* inefficient to go natural gas -> hydrogen -> fuel cell -> motion)

Handling:
ICE 10/10
Battery 5/10
Hydrogen 2/10 (all the extra weight of batteries, none of the performance)

Range:
ICE 10/10 (unless it's the Ford Escape I rented the other day, then 6/10)
Hydrogen 7/10 (the Mirai does get about 350 miles to a tank of hydrogen)
Battery 4/10 (up from 2/10 two years ago)

JosiasJessop said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Undercover reporters from @AJIUnit try to buy a football club:
⚽️ They say they work for a convicted criminal.
⚽️ The story should end here.
⚽️ It doesn’t.
⚽️ Discover how the men #SellingFootball wash dirty money through the beautiful game.
THREAD 👇🧵 https://t.co/qUy0EWIHPp

Samuelson also claims Chinese investor, Tony Xia, who bought @AVFCOfficial in 2016 was a front for an unknown investor.

He says he doesn’t know where his client’s money really came from.
#SellingFootball https://t.co/5UqE99NwVC

https://twitter.com/AJIunit/status/1424847506626777096?s=19

Having watched the full documentary (reminds me when panorama did these kind of things), hard to tell how much is billy bullshitting to impress clients, but there are some serious questions about EFL, corruption in the plod, dirty money from places like Russia in the UK....

Things we have heard before, but this story seems to bring together the insection of a load of issues.

Football has massively complex, arcane and opaque finances, almost designed to hide and misuse money.
Billions flow virtually unseen through the system.
Yet few people are arrested for, or even accused of, corruption.
It's almost as if no-one in any position of power, governmental or private, cares.

So why is anyone surprised about this?

Football is utterly corrupt, especially at the top level.

Fishing said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

U.S. COVID update: More than 164K new cases many states dump weekend backlogs

- New cases: 164,153
- Average: 115,863 (+3,716)
- In hospital: 68,984 (+2,591)
- In ICU: 16,828 (+643)
- New deaths: 460

More data: https://t.co/YDZSbYO7l7

I'm in LA now and everybody I've met here is crapping themselves about the new wave, having seen what has happened in the UK and in Israel, despite our higher vaccination rates. Unsurprisingly, there is a much higher compliance on mask mandates here than in Nevada, where I was previously.

Fishing said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

U.S. COVID update: More than 164K new cases many states dump weekend backlogs

- New cases: 164,153
- Average: 115,863 (+3,716)
- In hospital: 68,984 (+2,591)
- In ICU: 16,828 (+643)
- New deaths: 460

More data: https://t.co/YDZSbYO7l7

I'm in LA now and everybody I've met here is crapping themselves about the new wave, having seen what has happened in the UK and in Israel, despite our higher vaccination rates. Unsurprisingly, there is a much higher compliance on mask mandates here than in Nevada, where I was previously.

JosiasJessop said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Undercover reporters from @AJIUnit try to buy a football club:
⚽️ They say they work for a convicted criminal.
⚽️ The story should end here.
⚽️ It doesn’t.
⚽️ Discover how the men #SellingFootball wash dirty money through the beautiful game.
THREAD 👇🧵 https://t.co/qUy0EWIHPp

Samuelson also claims Chinese investor, Tony Xia, who bought @AVFCOfficial in 2016 was a front for an unknown investor.

He says he doesn’t know where his client’s money really came from.
#SellingFootball https://t.co/5UqE99NwVC

https://twitter.com/AJIunit/status/1424847506626777096?s=19

Having watched the full documentary (reminds me when panorama did these kind of things), hard to tell how much is billy bullshitting to impress clients, but there are some serious questions about EFL, corruption in the plod, dirty money from places like Russia in the UK....

Things we have heard before, but this story seems to bring together the insection of a load of issues.

Football has massively complex, arcane and opaque finances, almost designed to hide and misuse money.
Billions flow virtually unseen through the system.
Yet few people are arrested for, or even accused of, corruption.
It's almost as if no-one in any position of power, governmental or private, cares.

So why is anyone surprised about this?

Football is utterly corrupt, especially at the top level.

Nigelb said:

Isn’t it the business of government to be providing answers rather than ‘raising questions’ ?
And in any event, you would have though that someone paid to communicate on behalf of the government could come up with a less clumsy way of justifying her car choice.

Nigelb said:

Isn’t it the business of government to be providing answers rather than ‘raising questions’ ?
And in any event, you would have though that someone paid to communicate on behalf of the government could come up with a less clumsy way of justifying her car choice.

Foxy said:

Nigelb said:

Isn’t it the business of government to be providing answers rather than ‘raising questions’ ?
And in any event, you would have though that someone paid to communicate on behalf of the government could come up with a less clumsy way of justifying her car choice.

There is some validity in continuing to run an old vehicle on the basis of carbon cost of manufacture. I run my 13 year old 100 000 mile Fiat 500 for this reason, but it will be my last ICE vehicle. My electric Kia is so much better as a vehicle, from both performance and economy reasons. Charging really isn't a hassle, and it does nearly 300 miles on a charge, which is as far as I ever want to drive without a break. It does the 180 miles to the IoW very comfortably when Mrs Foxy goes there every month to see her mum.

The air pollution from older diesels is appalling though, quite apart from the carbon dioxide production. Air pollution from road vehicles causes many deaths per year.

https://www.britsafe.org/publications/safety-management-magazine/safety-management-magazine/2018/diesel-linked-to-10-000-premature-deaths-each-year-finds-university-study/

Commercial, agricultural and marine vehicles present real problems, but for cars? It is right to ban diesel cars. Having someone who doesn't understand this as spokesperson shows how tin earned this government is.

Jonathan said:

Drove with a friend in their Tesla from Amsterdam to Heidelberg. Stopped twice at Superchargers for a coffee. Brilliant. If I could afford it I’d buy one.

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

Do electric car enthusiasts have any concerns regarding the cost of manufacture and the potential difficulty of disposing of batteries once they're done?

Not a driver, but I am wondering if this is going to be akin to the biofuel situation where something that seems very good environmentally turns out not to be so when the full lifetime (and aftermath) of the car is accounted.

Nigelb said:

Isn’t it the business of government to be providing answers rather than ‘raising questions’ ?
And in any event, you would have though that someone paid to communicate on behalf of the government could come up with a less clumsy way of justifying her car choice.

CarlottaVance said:

Anti-vaxxers protest BBC coverage of pandemic by storming a building in White City. A building the BBC vacated in 2013 and is now luxury flats. Is there a link between stupidity and anti-vax? Opinions vary but evidence is growing …

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1424744371551973380?s=20

Nigelb said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Not a bad comparison - and a lot of photographers denied the viability of digital long after it was obvious.
It's true, though, that for the next few years there just won't be enough EVs for everyone, even if they wanted one.

Which is why second hand cars are in demand, and new models not so much.

Fishing said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

U.S. COVID update: More than 164K new cases many states dump weekend backlogs

- New cases: 164,153
- Average: 115,863 (+3,716)
- In hospital: 68,984 (+2,591)
- In ICU: 16,828 (+643)
- New deaths: 460

More data: https://t.co/YDZSbYO7l7

I'm in LA now and everybody I've met here is crapping themselves about the new wave, having seen what has happened in the UK and in Israel, despite our higher vaccination rates. Unsurprisingly, there is a much higher compliance on mask mandates here than in Nevada, where I was previously.

JohnLilburne said:

Nigelb said:

Isn’t it the business of government to be providing answers rather than ‘raising questions’ ?
And in any event, you would have though that someone paid to communicate on behalf of the government could come up with a less clumsy way of justifying her car choice.

Not really. She is just expressing the reality for most people - my next car may well be electric but I don't know when that will be. In the meantime, my 10 year old Megane has done 52,000 miles and I see no point changing it, unless it's for something more "interesting" and hence worse for the environment.

The other question about electric cars is - what do we do about people who cannot afford, or do not want to, buy new? With the amount of driving I do I cannot see the utility of spending more than a few thousand on a car, and many people of course can afford much less than that. I have never bought a new car and see no reason to start now.

murali_s said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Agreed. That's why our new car arriving next week is a Tesla. Second hand value for Teslas are fantastic - almost too good to be true!

OldKingCole said:

Nigelb said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Not a bad comparison - and a lot of photographers denied the viability of digital long after it was obvious.
It's true, though, that for the next few years there just won't be enough EVs for everyone, even if they wanted one.

Which is why second hand cars are in demand, and new models not so much.

One can still buy roll films and 35mm. Seem to be expensive though. And, for some reason, I understand that old film cameras, such as the Brownie, are 'collectables'.

OldKingCole said:

Nigelb said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Not a bad comparison - and a lot of photographers denied the viability of digital long after it was obvious.
It's true, though, that for the next few years there just won't be enough EVs for everyone, even if they wanted one.

Which is why second hand cars are in demand, and new models not so much.

One can still buy roll films and 35mm. Seem to be expensive though. And, for some reason, I understand that old film cameras, such as the Brownie, are 'collectables'.

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

squareroot2 said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Its still not good enough. My diesel eu 6 compliant will go 660 miles on a tank if carefull driven. I need that so i never have to be extorted by motorway service stations who are chsrging over 1.60 for a litre of diesel. Until an electric car has a 500 mile range.. forget it.. i don't want to hang around for an hour filling up and queue for that "pleasure" either. .

Sandpit said:

OldKingCole said:

Nigelb said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Not a bad comparison - and a lot of photographers denied the viability of digital long after it was obvious.
It's true, though, that for the next few years there just won't be enough EVs for everyone, even if they wanted one.

Which is why second hand cars are in demand, and new models not so much.

One can still buy roll films and 35mm. Seem to be expensive though. And, for some reason, I understand that old film cameras, such as the Brownie, are 'collectables'.

Which is why the best of the current generation of cars, are going to be collectible in future.

At least that’s my excuse for buying a nice car, albeit a used one.

murali_s said:

ydoethur said:

murali_s said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Agreed. That's why our new car arriving next week is a Tesla. Second hand value for Teslas are fantastic - almost too good to be true!

In a high way or a low way?

I looked at going electric when my 16 year old diesel finally gave way last October. But I couldn’t make the numbers work. Instead, I bought a six year old petrol for £6000 which does everything I need pretty cheaply. Once you factor in the extra cost of the car, I wouldn’t have been saving money with an electric.

In a high way.

New Model 3 Standard Plus £42k

2.5 year old Model 3 Standard Plus £36k

jayfdee said:

I drove a plug in hybrid for 5 years and now for the last 2 years a full EV.
If you can afford one, and have off road home charging, then they are easy to live with.
Charging infrastructure is improving all the time and a major problem, Ecotricity at motorway services, is now undergoing a massive improvement by Gridserve.
I charge overnight at 5p/unit, this equates to about 1.5p/mile, and I can easily charge 300 miles per week at this low rate.
Finally, there is no going back, once you have driven one, you realise how good they are, instant torque, which is very addictive,and very quiet.
I have an order in for a Kia EV6, the Koreans will dominate this market.

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

OldKingCole said:

Nigelb said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Not a bad comparison - and a lot of photographers denied the viability of digital long after it was obvious.
It's true, though, that for the next few years there just won't be enough EVs for everyone, even if they wanted one.

Which is why second hand cars are in demand, and new models not so much.

One can still buy roll films and 35mm. Seem to be expensive though. And, for some reason, I understand that old film cameras, such as the Brownie, are 'collectables'.

Which is why the best of the current generation of cars, are going to be collectible in future.

At least that’s my excuse for buying a nice car, albeit a used one.

The real value now are the last of the naturally aspirated monsters from about 2000-2010 so M156 engined Mercs, S62/S85 engined BMWs and 3.6 997s. That era was 'peak ICE' in my opinion and are better long term ownership propositions than more modern turbos/hybrids.

OldKingCole said:

squareroot2 said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Its still not good enough. My diesel eu 6 compliant will go 660 miles on a tank if carefull driven. I need that so i never have to be extorted by motorway service stations who are chsrging over 1.60 for a litre of diesel. Until an electric car has a 500 mile range.. forget it.. i don't want to hang around for an hour filling up and queue for that "pleasure" either. .

Don't drive a diesel, but our petrol car will do almost 300 miles on a tank. Some places we visit we could probably get a charge, but by no means all, so long trips would involve more planning than I want to do. For example, looks, from the last map I looked at, two or three months ago, that one of our relations lives about 10 miles from somewhere where could get a charge, and AIUI, one can't just run a cable from an ordinary 240v plug in a house.
Unless I'm wrong, and someone here will, unquestionably, know!

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

squareroot2 said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Its still not good enough. My diesel eu 6 compliant will go 660 miles on a tank if carefull driven. I need that so i never have to be extorted by motorway service stations who are chsrging over 1.60 for a litre of diesel. Until an electric car has a 500 mile range.. forget it.. i don't want to hang around for an hour filling up and queue for that "pleasure" either. .

Don't drive a diesel, but our petrol car will do almost 300 miles on a tank. Some places we visit we could probably get a charge, but by no means all, so long trips would involve more planning than I want to do. For example, looks, from the last map I looked at, two or three months ago, that one of our relations lives about 10 miles from somewhere where could get a charge, and AIUI, one can't just run a cable from an ordinary 240v plug in a house.
Unless I'm wrong, and someone here will, unquestionably, know!

Depends on the car. You can charge new Skodas off the mains, for instance, the Octavia hybrid.

jayfdee said:

OldKingCole said:

squareroot2 said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Its still not good enough. My diesel eu 6 compliant will go 660 miles on a tank if carefull driven. I need that so i never have to be extorted by motorway service stations who are chsrging over 1.60 for a litre of diesel. Until an electric car has a 500 mile range.. forget it.. i don't want to hang around for an hour filling up and queue for that "pleasure" either. .

Don't drive a diesel, but our petrol car will do almost 300 miles on a tank. Some places we visit we could probably get a charge, but by no means all, so long trips would involve more planning than I want to do. For example, looks, from the last map I looked at, two or three months ago, that one of our relations lives about 10 miles from somewhere where could get a charge, and AIUI, one can't just run a cable from an ordinary 240v plug in a house.
Unless I'm wrong, and someone here will, unquestionably, know!

You can just run a cable from a 13 amp outlet, but it is slow. Ok for overnight top up.

OldKingCole said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

squareroot2 said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Its still not good enough. My diesel eu 6 compliant will go 660 miles on a tank if carefull driven. I need that so i never have to be extorted by motorway service stations who are chsrging over 1.60 for a litre of diesel. Until an electric car has a 500 mile range.. forget it.. i don't want to hang around for an hour filling up and queue for that "pleasure" either. .

Don't drive a diesel, but our petrol car will do almost 300 miles on a tank. Some places we visit we could probably get a charge, but by no means all, so long trips would involve more planning than I want to do. For example, looks, from the last map I looked at, two or three months ago, that one of our relations lives about 10 miles from somewhere where could get a charge, and AIUI, one can't just run a cable from an ordinary 240v plug in a house.
Unless I'm wrong, and someone here will, unquestionably, know!

Depends on the car. You can charge new Skodas off the mains, for instance, the Octavia hybrid.

Thanks. Skoda dealer rather talked me out of an electric when I bought a new Fabia not long ago

OldKingCole said:

jayfdee said:

OldKingCole said:

squareroot2 said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Its still not good enough. My diesel eu 6 compliant will go 660 miles on a tank if carefull driven. I need that so i never have to be extorted by motorway service stations who are chsrging over 1.60 for a litre of diesel. Until an electric car has a 500 mile range.. forget it.. i don't want to hang around for an hour filling up and queue for that "pleasure" either. .

Don't drive a diesel, but our petrol car will do almost 300 miles on a tank. Some places we visit we could probably get a charge, but by no means all, so long trips would involve more planning than I want to do. For example, looks, from the last map I looked at, two or three months ago, that one of our relations lives about 10 miles from somewhere where could get a charge, and AIUI, one can't just run a cable from an ordinary 240v plug in a house.
Unless I'm wrong, and someone here will, unquestionably, know!

You can just run a cable from a 13 amp outlet, but it is slow. Ok for overnight top up.

OK for overnight at bro-in-law's, though?

Daveyboy1961 said:

Foxy said:

jayfdee said:

I drove a plug in hybrid for 5 years and now for the last 2 years a full EV.
If you can afford one, and have off road home charging, then they are easy to live with.
Charging infrastructure is improving all the time and a major problem, Ecotricity at motorway services, is now undergoing a massive improvement by Gridserve.
I charge overnight at 5p/unit, this equates to about 1.5p/mile, and I can easily charge 300 miles per week at this low rate.
Finally, there is no going back, once you have driven one, you realise how good they are, instant torque, which is very addictive,and very quiet.
I have an order in for a Kia EV6, the Koreans will dominate this market.

My only regret with the eNiro is that the EV6 is a better car. Kia build quality is something else, far better than any other car that I have owned, British, European or Japanese. The days when they were a down market bargain alternative are long gone.

I would love to change to an EV, but I live in a terraced house with no off street parking, so I couldn't take advantage of the overnight. I would have to charge at a local charger every other day or something. I think at my age I will be running my driving years out in a diesel I'm afraid.

CarlottaVance said:

Anti-vaxxers protest BBC coverage of pandemic by storming a building in White City. A building the BBC vacated in 2013 and is now luxury flats. Is there a link between stupidity and anti-vax? Opinions vary but evidence is growing …

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1424744371551973380?s=20

Sandpit said:

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

OldKingCole said:

Nigelb said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

Not a bad comparison - and a lot of photographers denied the viability of digital long after it was obvious.
It's true, though, that for the next few years there just won't be enough EVs for everyone, even if they wanted one.

Which is why second hand cars are in demand, and new models not so much.

One can still buy roll films and 35mm. Seem to be expensive though. And, for some reason, I understand that old film cameras, such as the Brownie, are 'collectables'.

Which is why the best of the current generation of cars, are going to be collectible in future.

At least that’s my excuse for buying a nice car, albeit a used one.

The real value now are the last of the naturally aspirated monsters from about 2000-2010 so M156 engined Mercs, S62/S85 engined BMWs and 3.6 997s. That era was 'peak ICE' in my opinion and are better long term ownership propositions than more modern turbos/hybrids.

I was listening to a bunch of journalists having a discussion on ‘peak car’ the other day. The one they came up with was the 2010 997.2 GT3RS. Bonus points if you can find the 4.0 rather than the 3.8.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My 2016 BMW 520d has 119g/km emissions and I pay £30 pa road tax

I bought it with 8 miles on the clock and it has now done 19,250 miles and I can travel the 450 miles from our home here to Lossiemouth and back to Perth without needing to refuel

To be fair I just have no interest or incentive to change the car which is fantastic, and certainly not paying many thousands of pounds for an EV

theProle said:

Foxy said:

rcs1000 said:

DavidL said:

I am going to Glasgow HC this morning. I am taking the car because I have 4 bags and some papers. It is approximately 85 miles. I will be staying at an hotel for a few days I then have to come home again.

In optimal conditions this should be fine for the latest generation of electric cars but, like Allegra, I am cautious. If EVs are to really take off the makers need to persuade people like me that this journey, including the sitting time, is nothing to worry about. They haven't done it yet.

I have an electric car (not a Tesla). From fully charged, it will comfortably do 230 miles.

If I were going to a hotel and it were (say) 100 miles away, I might call and see if they have a charger. (Spoiler, nearly all hotels do these days.) But for an 85 mile trip, I wouldn’t bother.

Every year, the infrastructure gets better. Every year, charging rates increase. Every year, battery capacity improves. And every year the difference with an ICE narrows.

ICE cars are going to be unsellable soon, like film cameras after digital started to beat them on quality and price. The trade in value of a 2021 diesel will be so low that you might as well burn the money.

2021 diesels are (unless regulated out of usability) better than anything other than really expensive 2021 EVs. Unless there is suddenly a glut of cheap brand new EVs, in about 2030 when I'm going to be at the at the point of wanting a 2021ish car I'm going to be very unlikely to be buying an EV.

The fact that out of warranty EVs may well have the potential to turn into utter nightmares if they go wrong is the icing on the cake. I work close enough to the production teams for a couple of the manufacturers that I wouldn't touch their EVs out of warranty with someone else's barge pole.

Foxy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My 2016 BMW 520d has 119g/km emissions and I pay £30 pa road tax

I bought it with 8 miles on the clock and it has now done 19,250 miles and I can travel the 450 miles from our home here to Lossiemouth and back to Perth without needing to refuel

To be fair I just have no interest or incentive to change the car which is fantastic, and certainly not paying many thousands of pounds for an EV

Sure, there is no reason to change a car that will see you out, but I wouldn't buy a new ICE car. A five year old second hand may have a usable life of another 10 years, but new? Might as well burn your money.