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BoJo says is won’t happen Punters make it a 72% further restrictions will come in this year – politi

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773
    edited July 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Coming in from work on the shed and reading the Graun, including this piece

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jul/23/all-the-trains-in-my-sons-train-podcast-ranked-by-how-much-i-hate-them

    and comments such as

    "Be fair to Thomas. He has a far greater role than you may realize. He is one of the leading life coaches for preschool age boys on the Autism Spectrum. I have been impressed by his communication of important lessons to his most devoted fans like "You should try new things, you might like them" and, much appreciated by their class mates, "It is easier to make friends with someone if you don't crash into them". All valuable lessons for our wonderful, quirky grandson."

    and

    "My son (now 23) as a two and a half year old, proudly described his freshly deposited stools
    in terms of their proportion as the various trains in the series, “Mum! I’ve done a Gordon, a Henry, a James and an Edward!” He certainly did. Priceless."

    And then I come to PB ...

    Must say that is one of the funnier pieces I have read in a while.

    Given up on the opening ceremony now. Just too boring for words.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,709

    For the first time in almost a year and a half I am in a pub! Not a mask in sight.

    Having arrived by train, "The Railway" seemed appropriate.

    A comfortable armchair and a nice pint of cask ale.

    Cheers!

    Most excellent! Enjoy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,923
    ydoethur said:

    I know people on here have reservations about Biden’s mental acuity, but I don’t think he’ll be taking orders from Johnson. Heck, even most of us aren’t.
    You pissed , a 4 year old could read that as Biden giving orders not taking them
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    Carnyx said:

    Oh, was that the primary problem? Any decent article or website on that, please?
    Strangely hard to find :-)

    But the withdrawal of freight was published...

    Basically, a certain government minister was obsessed with rail freight. In particular, getting more freight to run on the "empty" passenger lines. So no investment required.

    In order to run freight on passenger rail lines, it has to run faster.

    Many of the older freight wagons didn't have anti-lock brakes. Which means, that when they skid to a halt, a small flat is formed on the wheel. Which means a hammering effect when running. As with many things, the hammering effect is not just linear to speed...

    So the line was being battered by the equivalent of several thousands angry dwarves...
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    slade said:

    Lib Dems hold Fortune Green in Camden with an increased majority.

    Lab down 2+% Cons up 1+% Lds up 8+%. There was a pattern last night and it wasn't about a Labour surge....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    Considering Hirohito has been dead since 1989 it's probably for the best.
    He'd have still been a lot more dynamic than most of the performers. Certainly would have given Naruhito a run for his money.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,119
    MaxPB said:

    Again, if a trade deal with the UK boosts US jobs and the US economy they won't give a flying fuck.

    Biden the Irishman has literally fucked Ireland's economy more than we ever could with his minimum global tax rate.

    The US gives a shit about the US.
    Yes, all the worries about Biden being anti-British were overblown.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    MaxPB said:

    Again, if a trade deal with the UK boosts US jobs and the US economy they won't give a flying fuck.

    Biden the Irishman has literally fucked Ireland's economy more than we ever could with his minimum global tax rate.

    The US gives a shit about the US.
    And quite right too. The essence of Palmerstonian foreign policy. The little countries always were and always will be pawns in the game.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,986
    DavidL said:

    Disappointing that Hirohito didn't arrive by parachute like HMQ.
    Tbf unidentified objects floating down by parachute over Japanese cities are not entirely auspicious..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    On trampolines no less! God, that was embarrassing! Advertising to the world that Britons are obsessed with the NHS ( a system that only the developing world is envious of) or suggesting we are a bunch of hypochondriacs, or both.
    These ceremonies are always absurd, pretentious and boring. At least London was fairly consistently funny as well, often deliberately.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    eek said:

    Paris 2024
    LA 2028
    Brisbane 2032

    somewhere in Europe 2036.
    Dublin/Belfast 2036
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    Pulpstar said:

    With this and no crowds present, Los Angeles 2028 has a very easy job.
    It's an interesting example of the Brexit effect. At the time, the London Games were almost universally praised in all respects.

    Now, because of the involvement of certain parties......
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,680

    On Northern Ireland.

    There are two separate issues here.

    1. Is the agreement itself. It clearly doesn’t work, was never likely to work, and is punitive to GB-NI trade which from memory is the great a majority of trade relating to NI.

    It urgently needs to replaced, and given that the U.K. has conceded a regulatory border in its own territory I have much sympathy with @Charles and @Philip_Thompson’s solutions which is effectively to leave it to the U.K. to police by exception.

    2. Is the brazen bad faith of Johnson to:
    a) agree an unworkable deal
    b) ignore predictable warnings on said deal
    c) sell it to the country as “oven-ready”
    d) lie that it would avoid any kind of border between GB and NI
    e) u-turn on all of the above and blame the remainer parliament for making him do it.*

    The EU are not innocent in this affair.
    They will need to move, if they care about the people on the island of Ireland.

    But it is hard for them to do so as well when Boris and “Frosty” are pissing on their leg and telling them it is raining.

    Remainers need to be more acute in their criticisms of the NIP. Leavers need to be more aware that Boris’s “Millwall diplomacy” is likely to be sub-optimal.

    *Boris created his own trap by trashing May’s (better) deal; and refusing to concede any further delays. He therefore left new deal or no deal on the table, and Parliament was naturally keen to avoid a ruinous and democratically obscene “no deal”.

    Not often agreeing with Gardenwalker, I am delighted to agree that most of the above is pretty much on the ball, if you assume a point of view and accept the style is somewhat adversarial to Boris.

    So just two qualifications, neither very important now; Parliament trashed May's deal. Not Boris. That doesn't matter now but it is true.

    Secondly, further delay was, at the time, politically impossible. Boris privately (IMHO) made the big and fairly noble call to reject No Deal, at huge personal cost. Since the only deal on the table was one with a bad Ireland deal.

    Boris is a Machiavelli politician anyway. Circumstances since getting a bad but only available Brexit through a parliament that never wanted one mean he has to act in ways which are Machiavelli squared.

    I wonder how anyone else would be faring by now? Politically? Polling? Personally? It is worth thinking about. The current marmite Boris - everyone either loves him or loathes him is not quite true to the complex situation. Less uncritical support and opposition and more nuance would be a worthwhile project.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,680
    DavidL said:

    Must say that is one of the funnier pieces I have read in a while.

    Given up on the opening ceremony now. Just too boring for words.
    He is discussing something on a screen (I think) and not the books. So it has no meaning. For those who go to the trouble of reading the books to 2/3+ year olds, can we hear it for Toby, who redeems the dullness, and has his own rather touching past.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051

    On Northern Ireland.

    There are two separate issues here.

    1. Is the agreement itself. It clearly doesn’t work, was never likely to work, and is punitive to GB-NI trade which from memory is the great a majority of trade relating to NI.

    It urgently needs to replaced, and given that the U.K. has conceded a regulatory border in its own territory I have much sympathy with @Charles and @Philip_Thompson’s solutions which is effectively to leave it to the U.K. to police by exception.

    2. Is the brazen bad faith of Johnson to:
    a) agree an unworkable deal
    b) ignore predictable warnings on said deal
    c) sell it to the country as “oven-ready”
    d) lie that it would avoid any kind of border between GB and NI
    e) u-turn on all of the above and blame the remainer parliament for making him do it.*

    The EU are not innocent in this affair.
    They will need to move, if they care about the people on the island of Ireland.

    But it is hard for them to do so as well when Boris and “Frosty” are pissing on their leg and telling them it is raining.

    Remainers need to be more acute in their criticisms of the NIP. Leavers need to be more aware that Boris’s “Millwall diplomacy” is likely to be sub-optimal.

    *Boris created his own trap by trashing May’s (better) deal; and refusing to concede any further delays. He therefore left new deal or no deal on the table, and Parliament was naturally keen to avoid a ruinous and democratically obscene “no deal”.

    Excellent post.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    DavidL said:

    These ceremonies are always absurd, pretentious and boring. At least London was fairly consistently funny as well, often deliberately.
    Danny Boyle was an inspired choice as artistic director for the Olympics ceremonies.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,269
    Carnyx said:

    Coming in from work on the shed and reading the Graun, including this piece

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jul/23/all-the-trains-in-my-sons-train-podcast-ranked-by-how-much-i-hate-them

    and comments such as

    "Be fair to Thomas. He has a far greater role than you may realize. He is one of the leading life coaches for preschool age boys on the Autism Spectrum. I have been impressed by his communication of important lessons to his most devoted fans like "You should try new things, you might like them" and, much appreciated by their class mates, "It is easier to make friends with someone if you don't crash into them". All valuable lessons for our wonderful, quirky grandson."

    and

    "My son (now 23) as a two and a half year old, proudly described his freshly deposited stools
    in terms of their proportion as the various trains in the series, “Mum! I’ve done a Gordon, a Henry, a James and an Edward!” He certainly did. Priceless."

    And then I come to PB ...

    That is a very funny piece. I remember loving the Rev Awdry books as a kid but as an adult I can certainly understand why my parents hated reading them to me.
    The Mr Men books are the worst though.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    Dublin/Belfast 2036
    Too small - as we say with the ancient Manchester attempts.

    I suspect were London to decide to go for it and stated their plans to reuse existing 2012 facilities where possible it would be a shoo-in.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    Okay, that sounds like a reasonable argument, and one I have some, if not full, sympathy for.

    To back it up, I would argue that BR was very efficient in the 1980s. However, it was efficient at managing a shrinking network. Renewals cost too much on a route? Rationalise it. A freight service getting in the way of passenger services? Price them out when it comes to renewing the signals and pointwork.

    IMV (and some may disagree) the best thing privatisation did was remove some old thinking within the management; made them think about expansion rather than retraction. There was zero chance of that happening under BR.
    Very little changed in practice. In the early 80s BR was run centrally on a "shut it to save money" edict from government. They rationalised because they were instructed to. Then a change in government strategy and sectorisation created the turnaround we saw up to privatisation. State ownership can run a network down or can expand it depending on the brief.

    Exactly the same post 1994. A couple of stand-out franchises (Virgin Trains, Chiltern Railways, Anglia), a load that were indifferent, and many that were shit. I have already given you one example of a franchise (Northern) run on the exact same "price them off" approach as BR, and First Capital Connect had a similarly awful franchise. Subsidy quintupled post privatisation and if the government didn't want to fund things properly they went backwards quickly.

    Then we have train procurement. BR notoriously penny-pinched in the mid 80s, rejecting a like-for-like replacement of the ageing DMU fleets and instead buying cheap railbuses. Engines? Scrap. Gearboxes? Scrap. Doors? Scrap.

    But how is that different from some of the ludicrous micro-management we now see from the DfT? They have specced Intercity fleets not capable of running to the timetable (original spec Class 800) at double of the price of the revised can achieve the DfT dictated timetable 802s. Go a bit further back and they did the same with the Voyager fleets - not long enough, too cramped as built to tilt. Or the 185s for Transpennine with not enough sets, vehicles or seats. Or the Thameslink Class 700s with seats without tray tables (nw retrofit at huge costs but the whole fleet will get new seats as the current ones not fit for purpose).

    I could go on. However bad BR were, Strategic Rail Authority/DfT have topped it. However creative the post 94 railway was, the pre-94 railway was. The villain is always the government, which is why we need arms length commercial operators who deliver the public function and can borrow at government rates. Like the rest of Europe.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,642
    Starting to see a new trend in Wales


  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    Strangely hard to find :-)

    But the withdrawal of freight was published...

    Basically, a certain government minister was obsessed with rail freight. In particular, getting more freight to run on the "empty" passenger lines. So no investment required.

    In order to run freight on passenger rail lines, it has to run faster.

    Many of the older freight wagons didn't have anti-lock brakes. Which means, that when they skid to a halt, a small flat is formed on the wheel. Which means a hammering effect when running. As with many things, the hammering effect is not just linear to speed...

    So the line was being battered by the equivalent of several thousands angry dwarves...
    Not that Railtrack noticed. Maintenance was contracted out, no control, no records. After Hatfield the Inspectorate asked where else was vulnerable and Railtrack hadn't a clue. Hence my 4 hour trip Manchester to London in the midst of the emergency inspections.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    algarkirk said:

    Not often agreeing with Gardenwalker, I am delighted to agree that most of the above is pretty much on the ball, if you assume a point of view and accept the style is somewhat adversarial to Boris.

    So just two qualifications, neither very important now; Parliament trashed May's deal. Not Boris. That doesn't matter now but it is true.

    Secondly, further delay was, at the time, politically impossible. Boris privately (IMHO) made the big and fairly noble call to reject No Deal, at huge personal cost. Since the only deal on the table was one with a bad Ireland deal.

    Boris is a Machiavelli politician anyway. Circumstances since getting a bad but only available Brexit through a parliament that never wanted one mean he has to act in ways which are Machiavelli squared.

    I wonder how anyone else would be faring by now? Politically? Polling? Personally? It is worth thinking about. The current marmite Boris - everyone either loves him or loathes him is not quite true to the complex situation. Less uncritical support and opposition and more nuance would be a worthwhile project.

    While Parliament did trash the deal, Boris had the option of turning round and making slight changes to May's scheme and going "take it or No Deal" or creating a new deal and going "new deal or no deal". The fact he took the latter option was his choice / mistake.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888

    I have made the case that neither "privatised" nor "nationalised" as defined by the tow parties works. So I am not attacking Railtrack to attack "privatisation". It simply was a failed business.

    As for "similar things happened under BR" that isn't true is it? When did BR fail to network-wide complete basic maintenance? When there were infrastructure-fail accidents (Newton, Bellgrove, Clapham) there were specific equipment (or design) failures.

    And your point about NR is true to a point - it isn't the best company! But the WCML upgrade was not them, it was Railtrack. The lack of knowledge both of how to run electrification schemes or even what the network looked like (a big GWML issue) was down to Railtrack
    BR failed on infrastructure maintenance many times, sometimes causing disasters. And if you want to see an utter disregard for human life, I might point you at the Glanrhyd disaster.

    I cannot think of a major infrastructure project that Network Rail has succeeded with - they've been really bad at it. Worse,

    "The lack of knowledge both of how to run electrification schemes"

    That was largely down to Blair's government not ordering any big schemes. If you don't do this sort of work regularly, you will lose the knowledge on how best to do them.

    "or even what the network looked like (a big GWML issue) was down to Railtrack"

    I'm not fully convinced by that. There was the point I made earlier, but that is heavily contested. As for the reason the GWML upgrade was so costly: a big mistake was trying to rely on a massively mechanised system on a 170+ year old system.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,680
    eek said:

    While Parliament did trash the deal, Boris had the option of turning round and making slight changes to May's scheme and going "take it or No Deal" or creating a new deal and going "new deal or no deal". The fact he took the latter option was his choice / mistake.
    I think the devil there is in the detail. Exactly what sort of other deal/revised May deal would have got through ERG and parliament? is it possible that this flawed deal was the necessary compromise at the time?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,257

    On Northern Ireland.

    There are two separate issues here.

    1. Is the agreement itself. It clearly doesn’t work, was never likely to work, and is punitive to GB-NI trade which from memory is the great a majority of trade relating to NI.

    It urgently needs to replaced, and given that the U.K. has conceded a regulatory border in its own territory I have much sympathy with @Charles and @Philip_Thompson’s solutions which is effectively to leave it to the U.K. to police by exception.

    2. Is the brazen bad faith of Johnson to:
    a) agree an unworkable deal
    b) ignore predictable warnings on said deal
    c) sell it to the country as “oven-ready”
    d) lie that it would avoid any kind of border between GB and NI
    e) u-turn on all of the above and blame the remainer parliament for making him do it.*

    The EU are not innocent in this affair.
    They will need to move, if they care about the people on the island of Ireland.

    But it is hard for them to do so as well when Boris and “Frosty” are pissing on their leg and telling them it is raining.

    Remainers need to be more acute in their criticisms of the NIP. Leavers need to be more aware that Boris’s “Millwall diplomacy” is likely to be sub-optimal.

    *Boris created his own trap by trashing May’s (better) deal; and refusing to concede any further delays. He therefore left new deal or no deal on the table, and Parliament was naturally keen to avoid a ruinous and democratically obscene “no deal”.

    That seems fair.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,354
    DougSeal said:

    Starting to see a new trend in Wales


    So a bit like Scotland then? And how England has gone this week? Good news.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888
    On a side note, I know of only one case where a railway worker in the UK deliberately, as opposed to accidentally, caused a rail crash:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connington_South_rail_crash
  • CandyCandy Posts: 51
    algarkirk said:




    3 Because there is current equivalence in food production standards. We would not think of questioning EU food products. The opposite is also true.

    Well, we should be thinking of questioning EU food products, because the EU has already diverged in standards. See

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock

    "A ban on farm feed made of animal remains introduced during the BSE crisis is to be lifted in the EU to allow cheap pig protein to be fed to chickens over fears that European farmers are being undercut by lower standards elsewhere."

    Does anyone want to eat chicken fed with dead pigs? This will likely affect all ready meals that use cheap chicken from the EU.

    I'm surprised that the UK govt isn't making more of the horrors of this as a reason why we won't accept dynamic alignment to resolve the NI issue.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,081
    The U.S. will drop opposition to Russia's controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline in a deal with Germany to allow its completion, officials said

    Does anyone think this will come back to
    haunt the west? Also seems to be a total failure on Germany’s part to put all its eggs in the nordstream basket…
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,422
    edited July 2021

    On a side note, I know of only one case where a railway worker in the UK deliberately, as opposed to accidentally, caused a rail crash:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connington_South_rail_crash

    I was going to say that Moorgate crash may have been suicide, but it might not have been and it was considered a tube line back then rather than part of the mainline network.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Tbf unidentified objects floating down by parachute over Japanese cities are not entirely auspicious..
    Reprising Enola Gay also not unproblematic.

    I on the whole loved the Boyle thing but wtf was that about?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,287
    MaxPB said:

    Again, if a trade deal with the UK boosts US jobs and the US economy they won't give a flying fuck.

    Biden the Irishman has literally fucked Ireland's economy more than we ever could with his minimum global tax rate.

    The US gives a shit about the US.
    Of course countries put their own interests first.
    That doesn't say all that much about the relative importance Biden might give to UK versus Irish interests. Biden certainly isn't going to prioritise either over US interests.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,287
    ydoethur said:

    I know people on here have reservations about Biden’s mental acuity, but I don’t think he’ll be taking orders from Johnson. Heck, even most of us aren’t.
    Those betting for or against Biden running again need at least to consider this.
    https://proudblacksoutherner1972.substack.com/p/me-annie-glenn-joe-biden-and-what
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010

    So a bit like Scotland then? And how England has gone this week? Good news.
    It's raging in Ulster, mind.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    edited July 2021
    tlg86 said:

    I was going to say that Moorgate crash may have been suicide, but it might not have been and it was considered a tube line back then rather than part of the mainline network.
    Moorgate was - my father-in-law (RIP) was the first police officer on site.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,202
    eek said:

    While Parliament did trash the deal, Boris had the option of turning round and making slight changes to May's scheme and going "take it or No Deal" or creating a new deal and going "new deal or no deal". The fact he took the latter option was his choice / mistake.
    I remember the evening when the deal was first announced and Theresa May did her speech in the dark on the steps of Downing Street, and Boris was immediately denouncing it on all the news channels before the text had even been made public.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,216
    Candy said:

    Well, we should be thinking of questioning EU food products, because the EU has already diverged in standards. See

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock

    "A ban on farm feed made of animal remains introduced during the BSE crisis is to be lifted in the EU to allow cheap pig protein to be fed to chickens over fears that European farmers are being undercut by lower standards elsewhere."

    Does anyone want to eat chicken fed with dead pigs? This will likely affect all ready meals that use cheap chicken from the EU.

    I'm surprised that the UK govt isn't making more of the horrors of this as a reason why we won't accept dynamic alignment to resolve the NI issue.
    Some vegetarian pig- and chicken-substitute for me, please :lol:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,287

    That is a very funny piece. I remember loving the Rev Awdry books as a kid but as an adult I can certainly understand why my parents hated reading them to me.
    The Mr Men books are the worst though.
    The Postman Pat books were the worst.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    IshmaelZ said:

    Reprising Enola Gay also not unproblematic.

    I on the whole loved the Boyle thing but wtf was that about?
    Reminds me that I went to Washington DC some years, nay decades, back after they had just put the Enola Gay on display in the main Air and Space Museum on the Mall. 1995-6 or so? Interestingly, the exhibition talked about the events of 1945 - the plane;s design and production, IIRC, preparations, life on the atoll, and the flight to Hiroshima. Then the exhibition stopped and the rest of the hall was empty. Elements in the US, including the Air Force's political supporters, had thrown a huge wobbly about showing things like charred chairs and so on. So ...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110

    I remember the evening when the deal was first announced and Theresa May did her speech in the dark on the steps of Downing Street, and Boris was immediately denouncing it on all the news channels before the text had even been made public.
    Yes, this is what I meant.

    By the time May was trying to get her agreement approved, Boris was Prince over the Water and happy to denounce it to curry ERG favour (and perhaps even to some extent to encourage ERG recalcitrance).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    On a side note, I know of only one case where a railway worker in the UK deliberately, as opposed to accidentally, caused a rail crash:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connington_South_rail_crash

    No, no, on a branch line surely.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    That is a very funny piece. I remember loving the Rev Awdry books as a kid but as an adult I can certainly understand why my parents hated reading them to me.
    The Mr Men books are the worst though.
    Oh lordy yes. The same story 100 times. Just dreadful.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,680
    Candy said:

    Well, we should be thinking of questioning EU food products, because the EU has already diverged in standards. See

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock

    "A ban on farm feed made of animal remains introduced during the BSE crisis is to be lifted in the EU to allow cheap pig protein to be fed to chickens over fears that European farmers are being undercut by lower standards elsewhere."

    Does anyone want to eat chicken fed with dead pigs? This will likely affect all ready meals that use cheap chicken from the EU.

    I'm surprised that the UK govt isn't making more of the horrors of this as a reason why we won't accept dynamic alignment to resolve the NI issue.
    Thanks. How such a move, unless matched here, would affect the equation needs much thought. The government, I imagine, isn't making a fuss because it would quite like 'equivalence' as in general I guess most of us would.

    If we reach the point where German meat products are unwanted here because of lower standards, while GB products are unwanted there because lower standards then apart from us all becoming vegans I have no idea what to suggest.

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    The U.S. will drop opposition to Russia's controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline in a deal with Germany to allow its completion, officials said

    Does anyone think this will come back to
    haunt the west? Also seems to be a total failure on Germany’s part to put all its eggs in the nordstream basket…

    At the moment the major problem it is causing is in America with “universally hated” Ted Cruz using it as an excuse to hold up EVERY single senior State Department nomination until sanctions are reinstated.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    No, no, on a branch line surely.
    You make a good point.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Strangely hard to find :-)

    But the withdrawal of freight was published...

    Basically, a certain government minister was obsessed with rail freight. In particular, getting more freight to run on the "empty" passenger lines. So no investment required.

    In order to run freight on passenger rail lines, it has to run faster.

    Many of the older freight wagons didn't have anti-lock brakes. Which means, that when they skid to a halt, a small flat is formed on the wheel. Which means a hammering effect when running. As with many things, the hammering effect is not just linear to speed...

    So the line was being battered by the equivalent of several thousands angry dwarves...
    Many thanks. I recall something about a loaded stone train from Merehead which started going out of control down the slope of the Mendips and ended up with full brakes and wheels like threepenny bits which played hell the rest of the way to London, was it? But I hadn't realised the problem was so wide.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,924
    "Covid was only the 26th leading cause of death in England in June and made up fewer than 1% of all fatalities, official data shows"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9817861/Covid-26th-leading-cause-death-England-June.html
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,932
    eek said:

    Moorgate was - my father-in-law (RIP) was the first police officer on site.
    Wasn't the front carriage crushed to being a foot in length or something horrific?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    Nigelb said:

    Those betting for or against Biden running again need at least to consider this.
    https://proudblacksoutherner1972.substack.com/p/me-annie-glenn-joe-biden-and-what
    The same people saying Biden is going senile now said he would not withstand a long presidential campaign at his age and level of senility back in 2018/9. Perhaps they will be right by 2024 but decent odds on they are wrong.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,986
    IshmaelZ said:

    Reprising Enola Gay also not unproblematic.

    I on the whole loved the Boyle thing but wtf was that about?
    Good toon, but yes, puzzling.

    Apparently Jezza Hunt wanted Hitler to appear somewhere in the London opening ceremony, there was obviously a lot of weird shit floating about in the zeitgeist at that time. Not like now of course.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:

    Those betting for or against Biden running again need at least to consider this.
    https://proudblacksoutherner1972.substack.com/p/me-annie-glenn-joe-biden-and-what
    Last night Fox had a former White House Doctor to both Obama and Trump expressing big concerns about Biden's mental state.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    The U.S. will drop opposition to Russia's controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline in a deal with Germany to allow its completion, officials said

    Does anyone think this will come back to
    haunt the west? Also seems to be a total failure on Germany’s part to put all its eggs in the nordstream basket…

    The Germans have made it quite clear that they were going ahead with nordstream whether the US approved or not. The US have accepted that they can't stop them and, pragmatically, have decided not to fall out about it. It is a terrible idea creating a dangerous dependency on a psychopath and it will be yet another source of tension between the likes of Poland, Hungary and Germany. Yet another cracking strategic error for Mutti to finish on.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935

    Last night Fox had a former White House Doctor to both Obama and Trump expressing big concerns about Biden's mental state.
    Every day Fox have someone expressing concerns about Biden's mental state. It is almost as predictable as Russia Today having someone criticise the West within 2 minutes of watching.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    DavidL said:

    The Germans have made it quite clear that they were going ahead with nordstream whether the US approved or not. The US have accepted that they can't stop them and, pragmatically, have decided not to fall out about it. It is a terrible idea creating a dangerous dependency on a psychopath and it will be yet another source of tension between the likes of Poland, Hungary and Germany. Yet another cracking strategic error for Mutti to finish on.
    The East Politics group in Germany can't really get their heads round being opposed to Russia. Opposing Russia equals 1941 or something.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Good toon, but yes, puzzling.

    Apparently Jezza Hunt wanted Hitler to appear somewhere in the London opening ceremony, there was obviously a lot of weird shit floating about in the zeitgeist at that time. Not like now of course.
    An Ahnenerbe seance, one presumes? I'm glad that idea got dropped. Might have upset our fellow Europeans.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Every day Fox have someone expressing concerns about Biden's mental state. It is almost as predictable as Russia Today having someone criticise the West within 2 minutes of watching.
    Ah I see so if someone is on Fox, they must be lying. Even if they were Obama's doctor.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563

    Every day Fox have someone expressing concerns about Biden's mental state. It is almost as predictable as Russia Today having someone criticise the West within 2 minutes of watching.
    Or the BBC criticising Russia Today for being a mouthpiece of the state.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    Wasn't the front carriage crushed to being a foot in length or something horrific?
    Yep, beyond the fact we know he drank himself to sleep that night, he never spoke about it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935

    Ah I see so if someone is on Fox, they must be lying. Even if they were Obama's doctor.
    No, they might be right or wrong, honest or liars. But their content is extremely biased and unreliable regardless.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    edited July 2021
    Good article from Finlan O'Toole, linked earlier, and good precis from @Gardenwalker on NI.

    I must say my faith in the good intentions of the EU towards the island of Ireland have been severely shaken with vaccine border-gate but yes, at its core, the UK chose to separate out NI from GB rather than align with the EU. And yes, Boris is a useless, solipsistic, lying, ignorant twat*.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,354

    Wasn't the front carriage crushed to being a foot in length or something horrific?
    No - thats a huge exaggeration. Wikipedia has a more realistic (but horrific) description. For instance the three feet cab was compressed to 6 inches. the first carriage went from 16 m to 6.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,287

    Last night Fox had a former White House Doctor to both Obama and Trump expressing big concerns about Biden's mental state.
    Fox being the go to reliable source for these things.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    TOPPING said:

    Or the BBC criticising Russia Today for being a mouthpiece of the state.
    Strange, I manage to watch hours of BBC without Russia Today getting a mention most weeks.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    As to more restrictions, AAUI the nation says "bring it on".

    I have noticed that if anything mask wearing has increased this week.

    That's just the way the UK rolls right now. We are frit and won't be unfrit by the winter.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    No, they might be right or wrong, honest or liars. But their content is extremely biased and unreliable regardless.
    So facts are variously reliable or unreliable, depending on the news service. Even if its the same fact.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,714
    edited July 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    "Covid was only the 26th leading cause of death in England in June and made up fewer than 1% of all fatalities, official data shows"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9817861/Covid-26th-leading-cause-death-England-June.html

    Hardly surprising given that in June there were only on average around 10-15 deaths from Covid per day reported. It's only in July that Covid deaths have started rising sharply again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,287

    The same people saying Biden is going senile now said he would not withstand a long presidential campaign at his age and level of senility back in 2018/9. Perhaps they will be right by 2024 but decent odds on they are wrong.
    Yes, it made me a very nice profit last time around.
    I'm less confident now - whatever else, he'll be another four years older - so betting on other stuff.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    Strange, I manage to watch hours of BBC without Russia Today getting a mention most weeks.
    Strange indeed. I doubt I have watched hours of BBC this calendar year.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:

    Fox being the go to reliable source for these things.
    So Fox asking whether Biden is compos mentis means, de facto, he must be fine? that's the logic?

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Candy said:

    Well, we should be thinking of questioning EU food products, because the EU has already diverged in standards. See

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock

    "A ban on farm feed made of animal remains introduced during the BSE crisis is to be lifted in the EU to allow cheap pig protein to be fed to chickens over fears that European farmers are being undercut by lower standards elsewhere."

    Does anyone want to eat chicken fed with dead pigs? This will likely affect all ready meals that use cheap chicken from the EU.

    I'm surprised that the UK govt isn't making more of the horrors of this as a reason why we won't accept dynamic alignment to resolve the NI issue.
    I'm surprised all those who were outraged at the idea of US chlorinated chicken are silent on this matter. I wonder why.........
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,287

    So facts are variously reliable or unreliable, depending on the news service. Even if its the same fact.

    The opinions of some medic are opinions, not a fact.
    That they are given an airing of Fox as opposed to anywhere else does indeed tell you something about them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    algarkirk said:

    He is discussing something on a screen (I think) and not the books. So it has no meaning. For those who go to the trouble of reading the books to 2/3+ year olds, can we hear it for Toby, who redeems the dullness, and has his own rather touching past.

    Oh, the responses to the Graun piece are very much full of comparisons with the old books themselves (by no means always favourable to the movies).
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:

    The opinions of some medic are opinions, not a fact.
    That they are given an airing of Fox as opposed to anywhere else does indeed tell you something about them.
    So the logic is that Biden must be compos mentis, because Fox is investigating whether he is or not....


  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,074
    DavidL said:

    Sorry Roger but having remainers shrieking that this was completely unfair and it was only £200m a week net was political genius.
    IMO, that could have been countered on air by laying out 99 £1 coins and some change - a pile of £20 for health spending, £12 for pensions ect, picking out 65p as our net EU contribution and asking ' is that going to transform anything?'
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563

    Strange, I manage to watch hours of BBC without Russia Today getting a mention most weeks.
    Allow me to rephrase. Whenever the BBC interviews Russia Today they point out to the hapless representative that nothing could be believed because it is an arm of the Russian state.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322

    So the logic is that Biden must be compos mentis, because Fox is investigating whether he is or not....


    Seems reasonable to me.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    Too small - as we say with the ancient Manchester attempts.

    I suspect were London to decide to go for it and stated their plans to reuse existing 2012 facilities where possible it would be a shoo-in.
    Is it too small?
    Greater Dublin is 2m. Greater Belfast is 800k.
    Greater Brisbane is 2.5m.

    I also think Manchester could have another go; it’s a different city today and it’s global reputation has improved.

    But I’m attracted to a Dublin/Belfast joint bid for the same reason as I like @rcs1000’s idea about a high speed link between the two cities: as a updated commitment to the GFA.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    TOPPING said:

    Good article from Finlan O'Toole, linked earlier, and good precis from @Gardenwalker on NI.

    I must say my faith in the good intentions of the EU towards the island of Ireland have been severely shaken with vaccine border-gate but yes, at its core, the UK chose to separate out NI from GB rather than align with the EU. And yes, Boris is a useless, solipsistic, lying, ignorant twat*.

    What does the asterisk signify, pray? A new and improved Mark of twat, or what?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,074

    Dublin/Belfast 2036
    Nah, Edinburgh 2036 to celebreate Nicola's strongly worded letter to the PM demanding a referendum....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kjh said:

    Seems reasonable to me.
    Yes I can see how it would.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    DavidL said:

    Strange indeed. I doubt I have watched hours of BBC this calendar year.
    If only Scotland could last longer in the football....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    Oh, the responses to the Graun piece are very much full of comparisons with the old books themselves (by no means always favourable to the movies).
    I thought the TTTE books were rather good. The bit where Gordon (?) gets walled up in a tunnel has that tinge of horror which you sometimes get in good children's lit (Samuel Whiskers frinstance) but not in disneyfications. And some good deadpan humour. "My doctor has advised me not to push" says the fat controller and then 3 pages later "my doctor has advised me not to pull."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    TOPPING said:

    Allow me to rephrase. Whenever the BBC interviews Russia Today they point out to the hapless representative that nothing could be believed because it is an arm of the Russian state.
    Sounds quite sensible to me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,287

    So the logic is that Biden must be compos mentis, because Fox is investigating whether he is or not....

    You're not good at this.
    This logic is that Fox is not providing useful information on Biden's mental state. Other than for propaganda purposes.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    Carnyx said:

    What does the asterisk signify, pray? A new and improved Mark of twat, or what?
    Ha yes sorry I was going to add that I am using this in the sense of not being part of a woman's body because that is not the common usage of twat imo whereas some think that it is a direct reference.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    Everyone does negotiate international treaties in that way. Look at the Swiss, they've been renegotiating and in dispute as to how treaties operate for decades.

    Johnson is acting to represent the UK's best interest not the EU's. That's how every country operates around the globe.
    Nonsense. A Bad Deal is one you find you can't live with as soon as you've signed it. Johnson thus did a Bad Deal. Why? Because the choice was this Bad Deal or No Deal and No Deal wasn't a real world option. So he did the Bad Deal and now seeks to renege on it. This is the situation. Not interested in hearing any drivel from you or anybody else to the contrary.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,322

    Yes I can see how it would.
    Well that is because both you and Fox are deluded right wing conspiracy nuts.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    TOPPING said:

    Ha yes sorry I was going to add that I am using this in the sense of not being part of a woman's body because that is not the common usage of twat imo whereas some think that it is a direct reference.
    Thank you; I am illuminated. Actually, I wonder if the PB keyboard has a male zoological symbol on it (= astrological Mars symbol)? That would be quite helpful.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563

    Sounds quite sensible to me.
    Because your bias is such that you evidently can't see the equivalence and hence hypocrisy.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    DavidL said:

    Strange indeed. I doubt I have watched hours of BBC this calendar year.
    I have, but almost all of it has been “Only Connect”.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:

    You're not good at this.
    This logic is that Fox is not providing useful information on Biden's mental state. Other than for propaganda purposes.
    No. If Fox wanted to spread propaganda they should be proclaiming Biden's mental acuity from the rooftops.

    I mean, You and KJH would never believe that, because it came from Fox.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563

    Everyone does negotiate international treaties in that way. Look at the Swiss, they've been renegotiating and in dispute as to how treaties operate for decades.

    Johnson is acting to represent the UK's best interest not the EU's. That's how every country operates around the globe.

    Putting a border down the Irish Sea is acting to represent "the UK's best interest" how exactly?

    It is doing precisely the opposite. It is undermining the UK.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    Carnyx said:

    Thank you; I am illuminated. Actually, I wonder if the PB keyboard has a male zoological symbol on it (= astrological Mars symbol)? That would be quite helpful.
    Of course I hesitate to google the word "twat".
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    DougSeal said:

    Starting to see a new trend in Wales


    The Drakeford Awake
    TOPPING said:

    As to more restrictions, AAUI the nation says "bring it on".

    I have noticed that if anything mask wearing has increased this week.

    That's just the way the UK rolls right now. We are frit and won't be unfrit by the winter.

    Eh? Both my pub visits – zero masks. Sainsbury's 50% masks. The notion that mask wearing has increased simply doesn't fit the reality... although you are probably just trolling?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    TOPPING said:

    Of course I hesitate to google the word "twat".
    There is always Twatt in Orkney. Which, as Wikipedia helpfully explains at once, is "Not to be confused with Twatt, Shetland." I think we discussed that particular variety on PB a few years back - including the fact that it was a Fleet Air Arm base, under that name: RNAS Twatt.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303

    So Fox asking whether Biden is compos mentis means, de facto, he must be fine? that's the logic?

    The logic is that what Fox says on this subject is not useful information either way; it would be like trying to judge how well the PM is doing based solely on “Comment is Free”.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited July 2021
    kjh said:

    Well that is because both you and Fox are deluded right wing conspiracy nuts.
    Is he talking about Ronnie Jackson? If so @contrarian might want to investigate his background a bit more before concluding that his opinion adds very much to the “debate”.

    And there are many many people in the US who, whilst apparently well thought of and/or respected prior to 2016, are now anything but.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,771

    The U.S. will drop opposition to Russia's controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline in a deal with Germany to allow its completion, officials said

    Does anyone think this will come back to
    haunt the west? Also seems to be a total failure on Germany’s part to put all its eggs in the nordstream basket…

    Germany's habit is to prioritise economics / prosperity over politics.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    If only Scotland could last longer in the football....
    Ouch. In fairness their football coverage was better than ITVs but that is the ultimate low bar. In cricket I chose to watch Sky.

    The last thing I really enjoyed that was BBC related was the documentary series OJ Made in America. It was outstanding but I am not sure if it was ever shown on the terrestrial channel, I got it through the iPlayer. Absolutely none of their drama, light entertainment etc attracts me at all. I tried line of duty but gave up in the first series.

    I do tend to go to the BBC for major news stories but not often. I wouldn't miss the TV channels at all. The radio I would.
This discussion has been closed.