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The developing empty shelves narrative could really damage Johnson and his government – politicalbet

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Australia and New Zealand withdraw from Rugby League World Cup in England over Covid concerns.

    https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1418113956703526912?s=20
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    As a matter of interest, have you any idea what the hotels / B&B's are like in Edinburgh at the moment? I am ummming and ahhing about taking the little 'un on a road trip after the festival and before school restarts, and Edinburgh was to be our destination.
    I’ve a future colleague who is in Edinburgh at the moment. Said it was easy to find a decently priced hotel
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    As a matter of interest, have you any idea what the hotels / B&B's are like in Edinburgh at the moment? I am ummming and ahhing about taking the little 'un on a road trip after the festival and before school restarts, and Edinburgh was to be our destination.
    I’ve a future colleague who is in Edinburgh at the moment. Said it was easy to find a decently priced hotel
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504

    Agreed, but in many cases it is lesser indicators that count, so an officer might have attracted complaints from the public (and here we need to be careful because "the public" in this case might be villains). Taking the Ian Tomlinson case as an example (which involved Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer in walk-on parts), the police officer involved had faced ten complaints of which nine had been dismissed. Should that have been a significant warning? I don't know. But it is these micro-indicators rather than criminal convictions that concern me.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson

    Does anyone know if the following loophole has been closed? It wa promised to be....

    - Officer gets complained against
    - Case looks serious, goes forward
    - Officer retries, sick due to stress, just before the complaint process gets serious
    - Officer later re-employed by the police
    - Since the earlier complaint was ended procedurally, not relevant. Or restartable.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,978

    She was always a nutter - even back then. Obsessed with poo.
    It's no a bad idea to check your poo daily. Not obsessively but to check of there is dark old blood wrapped on your poo. Bright fresh red blood AFAIK is usually due to piles... as always check with your quack, but do not ignore your poo. Observing It might save your life.

    I feel sure Foxy will clarify.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644

    She was always a nutter - even back then. Obsessed with poo.
    I was lobbied by her 20 years ago - something about the NHS supposedly not taking something seriously. She struck me then as someone to avoid getting into detailed correspondence with.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539
    alex_ said:

    Re: home working. Not sure about management style, but I think it is a mistake to think that most people who like home working are introverts and the opposite extroverts. If anything it is often likely to be the opposite. For at least a couple of reasons. For one, introverts often crave social situations where they are forced to be with other people. Office environments are perfect for that. They don’t actually create any pressure to spend a lot of time engaging, but they make it a lot easier to engage when needed. Compare with home working environments. These can be very difficult for introverts. Even ignoring the social side - needing to contact somebody via eg. Teams when you have no idea if they are free to talk can be stressful. A lot easier when said individual is visible in an office. And a lot less scary because familiarity granted by an office environment makes people a lot less intimidating (mostly). etc etc

    Probably worth pointing out that "introvert" and "extrovert" are not how many people think of them. I project, which means that I can be quite boisterous ("a terrier with a stick" was one bit of feedback I one got...). So when people find out that I am a classic introvert (ISTJ) they can be puzzled.

    Introvert and extrovert is about where you draw energy from. I can do people - have to. Networking has become something I am good at, but it is *exhausting*. Extroverts draw energy from others, Introverts expend energy on others.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,656

    I took photos in those early days of whole sections of stores empty. The only time I could remember anything like it was the dying moths of Kwiksave when they tried to survive as an independent and quickly ran out of cash.

    The difference between then and now? Last year the gaps were as a result of panic buying - demand led. This year there has been no panic buying and the gaps are down to the inability to ship - supply led.

    Add panic buying on top and it could head south rapidly.
    It could be my fault. Yesterday I mentioned to a couple of people they should think about stocking up, without panicking. This morning it's all over the papers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    I don't know why people bother to apologise for historic things if they are to get sacked regardless, or forced to stand down (I think some musician leaving a band recently made a similar point), since it doesnt seem to mollify anyone evening you mean it, so you might as well just not comment.
    Avoids the whole “why won’t he apologise perhaps he’s still X” cycle
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,507

    Its a choice, and partly to drive recycling.
    I don't know how commercial and domestic waste management are split between council run and private, but would it be fair to say that central London councillors with very large directly paid for commercial waste removal, which is often daily in major loci, are in a better position to cross benefit domestic waste collection than more typical councils?
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,712
    edited July 2021

    I took photos in those early days of whole sections of stores empty. The only time I could remember anything like it was the dying moths of Kwiksave when they tried to survive as an independent and quickly ran out of cash.

    The difference between then and now? Last year the gaps were as a result of panic buying - demand led. This year there has been no panic buying and the gaps are down to the inability to ship - supply led.

    Add panic buying on top and it could head south rapidly.
    Rats. We were very well stocked, ready for Brexit shortages, but have subsequently run down most of our stores. These have been additionally depleted by the need to self-isolate for the past week due to the lad's covid. Looks like we'll be among the first to be wiping our arses with bacofoil. (sob)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Chairman of the RFL on R4 giving Australia/NZ both barrels - how come other Australian & NZ sportsmen are competing in the UK (Rugby & Cricket)?

    If it's safe for them, why not Rugby League?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    talkRADIO
    @talkRADIO
    ·
    54m
    The pingdemic has led to food supply chains failing. Federation of Wholesale Distributors chief executive @jaesbielbym says "It's chaos" and the number of people affected is "going up exponentially." He calls for "a blanket exemption for food supply chain workers."

    Usually when I quote industry people like the FWD Philip pops up to call them lobby groups who don't know anything about things like Wholesale Distribution.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    edited July 2021
    So we are going to save the country from Covid via the introduction of vaxports for nightclubs and a small number of named events. I wonder what "named" will be - ie Arsenal vs Spurs on Dec 1st or "Premier League matches".

    A bit like that joke - Susie Smith was only unfaithful twice; once with Bob Jones and once with the Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    Rats. We were very well stocked, ready for Brexit shortages, but have subsequently run down most of our stores. These have been additionally depleted by the need to self-isolate for the past week due to the lad's covid. Looks like we'll be among the first to be wiping our arses with bacofoil. (sob)
    A sponge on a stick worked for the Romans.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    It could be my fault. Yesterday I mentioned to a couple of people they should think about stocking up, without panicking. This morning it's all over the papers.
    The consequence of it being in the news and papers was that Tescos in Catterick was busy at 7:40 this morning as my wife went to get her lunch (it's usually the Maria Celeste at the time)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,310
    If they don't exempt food workers then we're going to see panic buying.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,656
    alex_ said:

    Re: home working. Not sure about management style, but I think it is a mistake to think that most people who like home working are introverts and the opposite extroverts. If anything it is often likely to be the opposite. For at least a couple of reasons. For one, introverts often crave social situations where they are forced to be with other people. Office environments are perfect for that. They don’t actually create any pressure to spend a lot of time engaging, but they make it a lot easier to engage when needed. Compare with home working environments. These can be very difficult for introverts. Even ignoring the social side - needing to contact somebody via eg. Teams when you have no idea if they are free to talk can be stressful. A lot easier when said individual is visible in an office. And a lot less scary because familiarity granted by an office environment makes people a lot less intimidating (mostly). etc etc

    There is a lot in what you say (although we should remind ourselves most people are not extreme extroverts or introverts) but in practice, what I have seen in pre-covid WFH is that extroversion is a good predictor of who will turn up at the office while introverts tended to stay away. You may be right that this is paradoxical and even self-harming behaviour.

    I'd imagine there is a lot of research to be done on these and other WFH questions.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    kle4 said:

    I don't know why people bother to apologise for historic things if they are to get sacked regardless, or forced to stand down (I think some musician leaving a band recently made a similar point), since it doesnt seem to mollify anyone evening you mean it, so you might as well just not comment.
    Cynical view: it's about future work opportunities rather than the current job.

    My preferred view: maybe Kobayashi just appreciates he was a dick and wants to do the right thing now?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    Charles said:

    I’ve a future colleague who is in Edinburgh at the moment. Said it was easy to find a decently priced hotel
    We need to know where he is staying to know what his definition of reasonable priced is.

    For some people it's a travelodge, for others nothing less than an 4/5 star international chain hotel.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,269
    I know that nobody on here would ever engage in anything so declasse as panic buying, but any suggestions from those whose shops have already run out of things on which items a responsible shopper might like to focus on in building a modest strategic reserve, taking into account likely supply/demand imbalances in coming weeks?
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    Leon said:

    We have seen what happens, in London, say, from 1945-1980, or New York from 1965-1985. No one pays for it. Stuff gets shut. Everything declines. The basic infrastructure is kinda maintained but ewwww

    These are arguably more optimistic scenarios now. Just another secular decline, and then recovery, it happens, fair enough

    The extreme worst case scenarios point to Detroit. Or Rome in 400AD

    London is was one of the great European cities. Without visitors from other parts of Europe, the West End feels dead. Detroit is more like it. Melanie Phillips notwithstanding, there aren't any "barbarians" to take it along the same path as Rome.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063

    There is a lot in what you say (although we should remind ourselves most people are not extreme extroverts or introverts) but in practice, what I have seen in pre-covid WFH is that extroversion is a good predictor of who will turn up at the office while introverts tended to stay away. You may be right that this is paradoxical and even self-harming behaviour.

    I'd imagine there is a lot of research to be done on these and other WFH questions.
    I'm with Alex on this one - as an introvert the 'rules' for want of a better word of an office environment make it easier to tip toe into deeper interactions.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    A 3 per cent pay rise for NHS staff is likely to be funded from an increase in national insurance that was intended to pay for overhauling social care


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-staffs-3-pay-rise-likely-to-come-out-of-social-care-tax-0w226n8fw

    Isn't that more the increase in NHS pay will be used to justify increasing NI, which can then be used to improve social care.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    edited July 2021

    If they don't exempt food workers then we're going to see panic buying.

    Why on earth does the 'no need to isolate if you're double-vaccinated' rule not come in for another 4 weeks?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,680
    While I think it possible that there will be a 2021 poll with a Labour lead it may fall short of probable.

    The odd feature of polling at the moment is the consistency of the Tory vote. It's as if voters have stopped using polls as a means of describing the temperature rather than their overall loyalty, and that shifting loyalty is less likely because of the culture gulf caused by Brexit, Boris and Jezza.

    In retrospect the petrol crisis in 2000 was a temperature check. Labour won at a canter in 2001 and 2005. Quality of leader counted most in the end. (I enjoyed the petrol crisis. All pointless meetings got cancelled and driving in the north when you did drive was like driving in a car advertisement, it was just your car and the rolling hills).

    Obviously once the zeitgeist changes Boris will very rapidly have more time to write his books and give after dinner speeches. Unless the empty shelves thing turns into real food shortages (at which point all bets are off) I don't think this will be it. In 2000 not being able to get in your car to see granny was a crisis. In 2021 being vaccinated and still alive is the good life for many people.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,310
    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563

    I know that nobody on here would ever engage in anything so declasse as panic buying, but any suggestions from those whose shops have already run out of things on which items a responsible shopper might like to focus on in building a modest strategic reserve, taking into account likely supply/demand imbalances in coming weeks?

    Jeez have I got to mention it every single time?!

    Coeur de Cardeline rosé from the Co op at £8 a pop is great value and is often sold out in the shops so get your skates on.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,130
    edited July 2021
    It is no surprise that we are falling off a cliff. In fact it's to be welcomed so we can start mending fences as quickly as possible..

    Apart from the headline stuff Cummings explained in some detail how the UK was manipulated into leaving the EU when even he (as chief manipulator) doubted it was in our best interest. When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    It was chilling. Ruthless ambition by the puppet and puppet master meant no holes were barred. From an advertising perspective the technique was as simple as it was wretched as he couldn't resist explaining......

    People with a slight prejudice had it aroused until it became a fear which as the campaign wore on became an all consuming fear. The reasons for choosing Turkey were as calculated as they were insidious

    It was impossible to refute because Cameron in the past had said Turkey joining was 'a long term aspiration' and he didn't wish to offend the Turks by resiling from it. They also had an irresistable number of Muslims living there....

    'if we remained in the EU 70 million Turks could be on our doorstep within a year and we could do nothing to stop them' became a virtual slogan..... Cummings in front of Lara K could hardly hide his gloat


    No need to explain why this wouldn't have passed any advertising code known to man. Only the dimmest wouldn't know and they don't post here. But those now in power and those who put them there have shown how easily a country-even a reasonably civilised one-can be manipulated when there are no rules. And even questioning is severely restricted

    The disappointing part is that in many ways it's the fault of the advertising industry. We've become accustomed to believing what advertisers tell us because they are obliged not only to tell the truth but to be able to substantiate all claims. There is no such thing as 'small print'

    PS. I saw a 60's press ad for a Porsche 911 yesterday. Above a photo of the car were two lines

    'Small Penis?

    Have we got the car for you!'

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644

    One important factor might be size. Westminster is fairly compact so there is not much time wasted driving from one house or block of flats to the next. That said, any council that has fortnightly collections wants looking at (or more money).
    When I lived in Westminster there was a massive income source in parking revenue and parking fines which most councils didn't have, and of course council tax was on loads of high-value houses and flats. Why they blow it on that much refuse collection I'm not sure - round here we collect recyclables and general rubbish on alternate weeks, and everyone seems fine with that.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I would look at what has happened to Delta in India for more positive thoughts.
    I don't think bodies in the river is that postiive.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100

    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.

    Ah, yes. I thnk you may have hit the nail on the head there.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    If they don't exempt food workers then we're going to see panic buying.

    Remember that exempting food industry staff from the ping and isolate only fixes part of the problem. There are still a stack of them catching Covid - as @DavidL noted above Delta cuts straight through the vaccine. There are still major shortages of drivers and vehicles. There are still import issues for Fresh and Chilled products.

    Absolutely there needs to be a stop to the self-inflicted issues like the pingdemic. But it isn't a magic wand fix. Trouble is ahead.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063
    alex_ said:

    Re: home working. Not sure about management style, but I think it is a mistake to think that most people who like home working are introverts and the opposite extroverts. If anything it is often likely to be the opposite. For at least a couple of reasons. For one, introverts often crave social situations where they are forced to be with other people. Office environments are perfect for that. They don’t actually create any pressure to spend a lot of time engaging, but they make it a lot easier to engage when needed. Compare with home working environments. These can be very difficult for introverts. Even ignoring the social side - needing to contact somebody via eg. Teams when you have no idea if they are free to talk can be stressful. A lot easier when said individual is visible in an office. And a lot less scary because familiarity granted by an office environment makes people a lot less intimidating (mostly). etc etc

    I find this spot on, personally. Though I do know other introverts who are not yearning for the office as I am.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    eek said:

    Isn't that more the increase in NHS pay will be used to justify increasing NI, which can then be used to improve social care.
    Using NI rather than Income Tax, or better still some sort of wealth tax, is another painfully obvious error.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,656

    If they don't exempt food workers then we're going to see panic buying.

    As @RochdalePioneers said earlier, the main problem is one of supply, and food workers self-isolating will exacerbate this. Panic buying comes later.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,690

    Morning all,

    What a ping f*cking mess. Business minister been sent out to bat on R4, trying to hold the line gallantly.

    That surely means a No.10 u-turn by lunchtime.

    Definitely.
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    rcs1000 said:

    Well, it will change.

    Fewer offices. But more entertainment.

    All that infrastructure - whether the tube, the apartments, the shopping centers, the hospitals, etc - will be used. The only question is what for, and who will pay for it.
    The 105 Building which has never housed a single guest has been used for entertainment too.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    I know that nobody on here would ever engage in anything so declasse as panic buying, but any suggestions from those whose shops have already run out of things on which items a responsible shopper might like to focus on in building a modest strategic reserve, taking into account likely supply/demand imbalances in coming weeks?

    Indeed. And then we consider what a "modest strategic reserve" looks like. I need a jar of coffee. Lets buy a spare one. Then we have the people who weren't buying coffee on this trip half of which decide to buy one. Very quickly the sales uplift outstrips supply and big gaps appear which only drives demand further and reduces supply further.

    Top top for you all - skip the supermarket and buy from your local convenience store. They need the business more than Tesco, they rode out the availability crisis last time far better than the supermarkets, and with loads of convenience only deals they aren't as expensive as you think.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,562

    Agreed, but in many cases it is lesser indicators that count, so an officer might have attracted complaints from the public (and here we need to be careful because "the public" in this case might be villains). Taking the Ian Tomlinson case as an example (which involved Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer in walk-on parts), the police officer involved had faced ten complaints of which nine had been dismissed. Should that have been a significant warning? I don't know. But it is these micro-indicators rather than criminal convictions that concern me.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson

    Agree. Stuff like this needs to be looked at. Too often it isn't.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,921
    IR35 reform, as I have said previously, is also a contributor to this.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    As a matter of interest, have you any idea what the hotels / B&B's are like in Edinburgh at the moment? I am ummming and ahhing about taking the little 'un on a road trip after the festival and before school restarts, and Edinburgh was to be our destination.
    I have been staying at the Knight residence, which is serviced apartments, for the last 3 nights. Its busy, if not as frantic as it gets when the Festival is about to start in a normal year. There are a few new hotels in Edinburgh that have opened up in the last year (really bad timing). I think you will get a reasonable rate but the bargains of the Spring are gone.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,921
    My wife has just gone to do the weekly shop early. The press and media will force panic buying and then spend days reporting it. Can’t risk not getting our stuff although it will probably all be over by the weekend.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,680

    I know that nobody on here would ever engage in anything so declasse as panic buying, but any suggestions from those whose shops have already run out of things on which items a responsible shopper might like to focus on in building a modest strategic reserve, taking into account likely supply/demand imbalances in coming weeks?

    During the fire of London Pepys dealt with his modest strategic reserve of Parmesan cheese by burying it in the ground.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    We need to know where he is staying to know what his definition of reasonable priced is.

    For some people it's a travelodge, for others nothing less than an 4/5 star international chain hotel.
    He’s a junior at a big 4 firm - well paid but not exceptionally so
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,656

    I know that nobody on here would ever engage in anything so declasse as panic buying, but any suggestions from those whose shops have already run out of things on which items a responsible shopper might like to focus on in building a modest strategic reserve, taking into account likely supply/demand imbalances in coming weeks?

    If you are a competent pot-rattler, I'd not be too concerned. Something will be in stock. Beyond that, pet food and bottled water were the gaps that surprised me. Water comes from the tap; vegetables can be bought in frozen form.

    But from anecdotes on here, the actual goods affected can vary. Presumably this follows from there being distribution problems, even where there are goods in warehouses, factories and farms.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    edited July 2021

    Indeed. And then we consider what a "modest strategic reserve" looks like. I need a jar of coffee. Lets buy a spare one. Then we have the people who weren't buying coffee on this trip half of which decide to buy one. Very quickly the sales uplift outstrips supply and big gaps appear which only drives demand further and reduces supply further.

    Top top for you all - skip the supermarket and buy from your local convenience store. They need the business more than Tesco, they rode out the availability crisis last time far better than the supermarkets, and with loads of convenience only deals they aren't as expensive as you think.
    My local convenience store is offering half price Pringles on selected flavours if that is any indication.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,690
    TOPPING said:

    So we are going to save the country from Covid via the introduction of vaxports for nightclubs and a small number of named events. I wonder what "named" will be - ie Arsenal vs Spurs on Dec 1st or "Premier League matches".

    A bit like that joke - Susie Smith was only unfaithful twice; once with Bob Jones and once with the Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment.

    My gut feeling is that they won't get introduced but the threat is being used to get 3-4m additional under 40s double jabbed by the end of September. It might work if the government hammers the message home for the next 3-4 weeks. Get a vaccine or don't go anywhere fun from September and watch your mates leave you sitting home alone.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010
    On the pings, why not just bring the August rules forward for key workers ?
    Today ?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    As @RochdalePioneers said earlier, the main problem is one of supply, and food workers self-isolating will exacerbate this. Panic buying comes later.
    Some chains have 30% of staff off with Covid (infected or pinged). And its summer holidays so they lose a chunk of people that way as well. Companies are having to do short notice changes to store hours, bus staff around between branches and a few have shut completely due to a lack of staff.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,642
    @ThatRyanChap

    “Vaccine effectiveness against delta in UK been published in NEJM.

    Looks like central estimate of AZ is up a bit since last known update of 60% shown in the FT.

    This study shows 67% after two, more evidence improving with time? https://nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1417964601640198145
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,570
    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    When I lived in Westminster there was a massive income source in parking revenue and parking fines which most councils didn't have, and of course council tax was on loads of high-value houses and flats. Why they blow it on that much refuse collection I'm not sure - round here we collect recyclables and general rubbish on alternate weeks, and everyone seems fine with that.
    Because their customers, the local residents, like it. And they understand that their primary duty is to serve the community
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Alistair said:

    I don't think bodies in the river is that postiive.
    The collapse in cases is though
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    ‘OFFICIAL UK BREXIT POLICY
    per Kwasi Kwarteng:

    ▪️ We had no idea what Brexit would do.
    ▪️ Remainers may have been right but they weren't sure, so how could we know.🤷🏿‍♂️
    ▪️ The deal we sold to voters as oven-ready was designed to be vomited back up.

    @KwasiKwarteng you're a disgrace’

    https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1418118585126461443?s=21
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    True, but I assume that York still won't be in North Yorkshire...?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Yes, but wasn't the depopulation of London, Liverpool, Glasgow, all deliberate policy? New Towns were created to take people out of overcrowded slums, creating places like Milton Keynes, Skelmersdale, Harlow, Wellingborough, Cumbernauld and Corby etc

    That was in the days that we did urban planning and housing policy on a grander scale of course, and at least in theory included shopping centres, schools, industrial estates etc.
    Thats exactly my point - there will be no depopulation and inner city abandonement on a 1960s scale because the rate of population and household growth is not matched by housebuilding. That isn't going to change any time soon.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,274

    Chairman of the RFL on R4 giving Australia/NZ both barrels - how come other Australian & NZ sportsmen are competing in the UK (Rugby & Cricket)?

    If it's safe for them, why not Rugby League?

    Seems unlikely, but a more responsible management at the Antipodean RL's?

    Or is it more difficult to corral RL players?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,921

    ‘OFFICIAL UK BREXIT POLICY
    per Kwasi Kwarteng:

    ▪️ We had no idea what Brexit would do.
    ▪️ Remainers may have been right but they weren't sure, so how could we know.🤷🏿‍♂️
    ▪️ The deal we sold to voters as oven-ready was designed to be vomited back up.

    @KwasiKwarteng you're a disgrace’

    https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1418118585126461443?s=21

    Lol

    That Femi Chap is a grade A bellend.

    Have you signed up,to his patreon ? 😂👍😂😂
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    I would look at what has happened to Delta in India for more positive thoughts.
    It's possible delta is just too successful. We may get a very sharp peak and a very sharp fall. But the assumption that the 7m unvaccinated were going to get a free ride on the backs of the vaccinated is broken. Low tens of thousands of them are going to die unnecessarily over the next year. It's unfortunate.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    MaxPB said:

    My gut feeling is that they won't get introduced but the threat is being used to get 3-4m additional under 40s double jabbed by the end of September. It might work if the government hammers the message home for the next 3-4 weeks. Get a vaccine or don't go anywhere fun from September and watch your mates leave you sitting home alone.
    Not how I would run a government seeking to achieve an aim. It really must believe that we are on the cusp of a tragedy.

    And nightclubs. That's it. That's the key to preventing the nation, the NHS, and everyone being overrun by Covid. Nightclubs. And, say, Glasto. Absurd.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,680

    Probably worth pointing out that "introvert" and "extrovert" are not how many people think of them. I project, which means that I can be quite boisterous ("a terrier with a stick" was one bit of feedback I one got...). So when people find out that I am a classic introvert (ISTJ) they can be puzzled.

    Introvert and extrovert is about where you draw energy from. I can do people - have to. Networking has become something I am good at, but it is *exhausting*. Extroverts draw energy from others, Introverts expend energy on others.
    Spot on. And very good for individual's mental health for people to work this one out, and act accordingly. (And where would the rest of us be without ISTJs to quietly run things properly?)

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    Provided the double jabbed are removed from having to self isolate if they have come into contact with a Covid case next month the empty shelves problem should not be an issue
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited July 2021

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,690
    HYUFD said:

    Provided the double jabbed are removed from having to self isolate if they have come into contact with a Covid case next month the empty shelves problem should not be an issue

    Only three weeks of rice with a side of rice then.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    This is pretty much the sole reason I voted Tory in the recent local elections in Nottinghamshire. Looks like it won't happen, yet. They'll get there eventually though.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    edited July 2021

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    It's really not - the council will be just too big. Its a 3 hour drive from Scarborough to Hawes. Worse with York City Council rolled back into the county a lot of focus will (as with Durham) focussed on York rather than the rest of the area.

    As I pointed out with the example of Bishop Auckland's destruction by the St Helens outdoor shopping centre which was voted against by the local councillors but approved by the full County Durham council (who not knowing Bishop Auckland didn't know the issues so went with the out of area planners rather than the locals).

    At least @Cyclefree should be happy as the Cumbria plans are to separate the council in 2 (which makes sense and was what she hoped for).
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,282

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Its a long way from Skipton to Scarborough.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited July 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    .@KwasiKwarteng v robust about govt using its big majority to legalise compulsory Covid passports. Tells @JustinOnWeb "I'm very confident that we can pass the legislation that we require."

    With 40+ Tory MPs publicly opposed, that's quite a bold claim


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-will-oppose-boris-johnson-plan-for-compulsory-covid-passports-for-nightclubs_uk_60f853bee4b0158a5edc9980

    Given the government has a majority of 80, even if all opposition parties vote with the 40 Tory rebels the plans should still pass provided SF don't take their seats
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,282
    MaxPB said:

    My gut feeling is that they won't get introduced but the threat is being used to get 3-4m additional under 40s double jabbed by the end of September. It might work if the government hammers the message home for the next 3-4 weeks. Get a vaccine or don't go anywhere fun from September and watch your mates leave you sitting home alone.
    Given an eight week gap between doses we would have to see a big increase in first doses begin in the next few days.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    edited July 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644
    I'm on the pessimistic/cautious side about the pandemic, but I think this supply chain stuff is a bit overblown IF the ping requirement goes away in 3 weeks. (I had my weekly delivery from Sainsbury yesterday, 99% complete as usual.) The rise in infections has at least stopped accelerating.

    There's a more subtle issue, touched on by DavidL. It appears that double vaccination mostly stops you dying from Covid, which despite Darkage's necrophilia is definitely a very good thing. We are getting to the point where double vaccination is the adult norm.

    However, it doesn't stop you feeling horrible for weeks, and possibly having long-term effects that we've not yet fully understood. It is often (hoiw often? Are there stats?) very much worse than a typical bout of flu. In normal times, that would be a very serious epidemic, but we seem to be about to drop the ping requirement and let things rip. I do see why but we should be clear what we're doing. The result will be that most of us get the bug and a lot of us have serious and unpredictable consequences. But if we don't do it, then the supply chain issue and shortages of staff everywhere become a big problem.

    Above all I'd like to see Ministers explaining the options in detail and why they've chosen one against another. We're being governed by apparently random decisions which get reversed without notice, and that's unhealthy for the situation. (It's not even healthy for the governing party, but that's a bit secondary at the moment.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    Tomorrow's Olympics opening ceremony will go ahead despite the dismissal of the director but with only 950 people in attendance

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57924885
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    True, but I assume that York still won't be in North Yorkshire...?
    Nope York is included (which makes it even worse if you look at previous examples where that has occurred).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges for £80 a year...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,310
    Ms. (?) Algakirk, ha. It's the NTs who run the world.

    I know all personality type category systems have their flaws, but I quite like the Keirsey one.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,656
    edited July 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Only three weeks of rice with a side of rice then.
    You'd best stock up on jam so you can tell if the rice is your main course or dessert.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010
    edited July 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Tomorrow's Olympics opening ceremony will go ahead despite the dismissal of the director but with only 950 people in attendance

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57924885

    I had some vision last year when the games was delayed that at the Opening ceremony the Covid pandemic would be declared over to thunderous applause from the crowd. And it probably would be were it not for the delta variant (Japan's dreadful vaccination rate hasn't helped).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,274
    Pulpstar said:

    Our parish council cuts the grass verges.
    So does ours. Which was more than the Borough Council, where we used to live did.
  • MalcolmDunnMalcolmDunn Posts: 139
    Very creative of OGH to somehow conflate Brexit with empty shelves. I wonder how many more Britons would have died from covid if we had remained in rge EU?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,986

    I can vaguely remember this woman being a TV doctor. It turns out she’s a nutter:

    https://twitter.com/gillianmckeith/status/1417883955462823944

    I believe the title doctor is something of an exaggeration.

    Jobby wrangler is a term that I’ve seen applied.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,921

    Very creative of OGH to somehow conflate Brexit with empty shelves. I wonder how many more Britons would have died from covid if we had remained in rge EU?


    Given their total ineptitude on vaccine procurement a great many.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited July 2021

    Mike compares to the year 2000 but this is starting to remind me more of the winter of discontent in 1978/9.

    Yes, that’s exactly what I thought when I saw Mike’s comparison, and incidentally when I read Sean’s bleak London evening walk report: this is the new Winter of Discontent. I’m old enough to remember bits of that -the power cuts and the rubbish piling up uncollected on the streets - but most aren’t.
    alex_ said:

    What basis is there for saying it “prolonged” the pandemic? If anything it quite likely accelerated it. What the scientists/govt won’t say amid all the discussions about isolation/pingdemic etc, is that Govt policy is de facto for Covid to rush through the population as rapidly as possible (as long as the NHS can, just about, cope). If Delta can’t be stopped then suppression=prolonging.
    You are assuming that Delta is the final variant.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    HYUFD said:

    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas
    Anyone qualified writing those neighbourhood plans?

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,269

    If you are a competent pot-rattler, I'd not be too concerned. Something will be in stock. Beyond that, pet food and bottled water were the gaps that surprised me. Water comes from the tap; vegetables can be bought in frozen form.

    But from anecdotes on here, the actual goods affected can vary. Presumably this follows from there being distribution problems, even where there are goods in warehouses, factories and farms.
    Pet food is a useful tip, thanks. Bottled water is just a tax on stupidity; it comes out of the tap for (next to) nothing.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    eek said:

    Nope York is included (which makes it even worse if you look at previous examples where that has occurred).
    Might have to correct this - I've now seen contradictory comments and the actual announcement doesn't help.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    eek said:

    Anyone qualified writing those neighbourhood plans?

    No. That's the point. It is residents. The plan then has to be put to a local referendum.

    Then again, on planning/development, plenty of times the Plan is overridden in favour of allowing development to go ahead.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    So does ours. Which was more than the Borough Council, where we used to live did.
    My experience of Town / Parish councils isn't good. Was elected onto Thornaby for 4 years and it is a lunatic asylum sinking all the town's money into restoring a grand Victorian town hall with no business plan and a taxpayer funded magazine whose opening paragraph on the boundary commission proposals complains about the "annexation" of the town. Neighbouring Yarm has rival independent groups who literally fight in the council chamber. Neighbouring Eaglescliffe keeps getting censured for egregiously bad governance...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,119

    To be fair, once everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated, there's an element of truth in that.

    We don't publish daily data on stuff like flu infections etc and once people are vaccinated then Covid is similar to that (and if people aren't vaccinated its their own damned fault).
    We do publish weekly data on influenza, and other viral infections, but most of the time you wouldn't know this, because it's not important to you that you know.

    There is so much noise in the daily data that it probably hasn't ever added much value to have it published daily, but maybe there's an element of being seen to be open and transparent which is worthwhile.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    TOPPING said:

    No. That's the point. It is residents. The plan then has to be put to a local referendum.

    Then again, on planning/development, plenty of times the Plan is overridden in favour of allowing development to go ahead.
    That applies to Local Plans too but more often it is tweaked by the Planning Inspector then goes ahead
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,274
    eek said:

    Anyone qualified writing those neighbourhood plans?

    From local experience, probably, but not necessarily! And that must cause head-scratching in Planning Offices.
    However in medium sized rural communities there are often a few highly qualified, albeit retired, people, who, if they don't feel up to the job themselves, still have contacts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,288
    Roger said:

    It is no surprise that we are falling off a cliff. In fact it's to be welcomed so we can start mending fences as quickly as possible..

    Apart from the headline stuff Cummings explained in some detail how the UK was manipulated into leaving the EU when even he (as chief manipulator) doubted it was in our best interest. When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    It was chilling. Ruthless ambition by the puppet and puppet master meant no holes were barred. From an advertising perspective the technique was as simple as it was wretched as he couldn't resist explaining......

    People with a slight prejudice had it aroused until it became a fear which as the campaign wore on became an all consuming fear. The reasons for choosing Turkey were as calculated as they were insidious

    It was impossible to refute because Cameron in the past had said Turkey joining was 'a long term aspiration' and he didn't wish to offend the Turks by resiling from it. They also had an irresistable number of Muslims living there....

    'if we remained in the EU 70 million Turks could be on our doorstep within a year and we could do nothing to stop them' became a virtual slogan..... Cummings in front of Lara K could hardly hide his gloat


    No need to explain why this wouldn't have passed any advertising code known to man. Only the dimmest wouldn't know and they don't post here. But those now in power and those who put them there have shown how easily a country-even a reasonably civilised one-can be manipulated when there are no rules. And even questioning is severely restricted

    The disappointing part is that in many ways it's the fault of the advertising industry. We've become accustomed to believing what advertisers tell us because they are obliged not only to tell the truth but to be able to substantiate all claims. There is no such thing as 'small print'

    PS. I saw a 60's press ad for a Porsche 911 yesterday. Above a photo of the car were two lines

    'Small Penis?

    Have we got the car for you!'

    ...meant no holes were barred...
    Is that a deliberate Boris neologism ?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,539

    Very creative of OGH to somehow conflate Brexit with empty shelves. I wonder how many more Britons would have died from covid if we had remained in rge EU?

    Wowsers. We can prove that Brexit has a direct impact onto empty shelves. We can prove that our departure from the EU had nothing to do with our vaccination programme.

    And apparently we can prove that
    Eight to ten years months after coming home
    Almost eight-hundred-thousand men
    Are still fighting the Vietnam Brexit War

    You won! Isn't this all you wanted? So why are you all still fighting a war that you won? Could it be for the same reasons why yesterday the government announced its intentions to substantially rewite the "oven-ready" deal as it doesn't work and they didn't understand it?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Seems unlikely, but a more responsible management at the Antipodean RL's?

    Or is it more difficult to corral RL players?
    Personally suspect it's just that the RL World Cup, and in fact the wider international game really isn't seen as that important
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,274

    My experience of Town / Parish councils isn't good. Was elected onto Thornaby for 4 years and it is a lunatic asylum sinking all the town's money into restoring a grand Victorian town hall with no business plan and a taxpayer funded magazine whose opening paragraph on the boundary commission proposals complains about the "annexation" of the town. Neighbouring Yarm has rival independent groups who literally fight in the council chamber. Neighbouring Eaglescliffe keeps getting censured for egregiously bad governance...
    You needed Jackie Weaver!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,986
    edited July 2021
    IanB2 said:

    "there will be a list of exemptions but it's a secret which ones they will be...." (paraphrasing)
    Wasn’t Cleverly going on about tough sanctions against China a couple of days ago but refusing to outline what they might be? Action tomorrow, action yesterday, never action today..
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,304
    HYUFD said:

    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    Premier League players and staff must be double jabbed to take part in next season

    https://twitter.com/sportbible/status/1418125179255984128?s=20
This discussion has been closed.