C&A: The by-election campaign that was totally ignored by the media – politicalbetting.com

Cancel culture in action.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/08/leicestershire-pcc-bans-staff-from-contact-with-black-lives-matter

rcs1000 said:

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/status/1412736076339466243

2019: "If young people didn't spend all their money on fancy coffees they would be able to afford a house"

2021: "If young people don't go back to offices and buy fancy coffees then the economy is going to implode"

Pretty sure fancy coffees shouldn't have such power tbh

Maybe, if young people spend all their money on a house instead of coffee, then the economy implodes?

If young people spend their money on a house, then they'll be allowing someone who already made out like a bandito in the housing market to make an even bigger profit.

Yay!

Then the bandito buys coffee......

LostPassword said:

CarlottaVance said:

Striking:



https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/07/10/some-britons-crave-permanent-pandemic-lockdown

That's incredibly disappointing.

The bad news: there are far too many scientifically illiterate scaredy cats out there.

The good news: the number of club hating authoritarians is small - fun lovin' PBers can beat them off without the need of a stats bus.

MrEd said:

Completely off topic but the markets are taking a shellacking today. Remember inflation? Not so much of a concern apparently, now the concern is about growth. US weekly claims also not great.

The market is still up 15% in the first six months of this year - I think it'll survive a 1% down day.

Personally, I think the markets feel very expensive. But what do I know?

rottenborough said:

iSAGE peeps now seem to be saying case rate growth is slowing maybe because people are not getting tested.

If I have understood the latest tweets.

Testing has been trending up for weeks.

Contrarian and friends will be pleased to hear that opponents of Covid passports and related measures have gathered 60,000 signatures in Switzerland to force a referendum on these measures. An earlier attempt to block lockdown altogether also reached a referendum, but was voted down by the population last month by 60-40 on a 60% turnout.

The organisers claim that Covid passports will create a two-class society and contact tracing may be used as instruments of social control.

I don't fancy their chances - the Swiss are sturdy freedom-lovers, but also quite pragmatic - but it'll be interesting anyway.

In a study involving 10.2 million participants in Chile, the effectiveness of an inactivated, China-developed #SARSCoV2 vaccine [SinoVac] was estimated. Effectiveness was 65.9% for infection, 87.5% for hospitalization, 90.3% for ICU admission, and 86.3% for death.

https://twitter.com/NEJM/status/1412882866971635713

Cookie said:

Malmesbury said:

Covid summary.

Cases, hospitalisation and deaths up... but

Universities finishing?

I predicted faster growth again when people said it was showing down a couple of weeks ago, but this time I think the slowing may endure (at least till 26th or so), despite football.

Very interesting to see the vaccination rates set against infection rates now. Low vaccination rates and high infection rates seem to be converging considerably on the centres of all sizeable towns and university locales, plus the Scotland Vs England vaccination and infection disparity. You can point to both younger and poorer demographics in this.

It wasn't so much the case when everything was concentrated on the NW a mere couple of weeks ago, but at this stage I am starting to correlate infection rates and vaccination rates very directly as the main thing going on, rather than the many other things you could bring to the table when considering urban areas. Students going back to their homes will even out herd immunity levels between neighbourhoods and reduce the intensity of student mixing.

The last vaccination pushes need to focus very, very locally on neighbourhoods surrounding the centres of large towns and cities up and down the country. By all means say we should open up, they've had the chance, but one more push on vaccination - one more chance - won't go amiss.

rottenborough said:

Caitlin Moran
@caitlinmoran
·
17h
Cab ride across London during extra time - pubs exploding, horns sounding. For an England team who took the knee, wear rainbow armbands, campaign against child poverty. It feels like a cultural game-changer on the same scale as The Beatles.



Hmmm. Colour me sceptical.

Yeah, its not like the hard right are able to pick another England team to represent them.

rcs1000 said:

MrEd said:

Completely off topic but the markets are taking a shellacking today. Remember inflation? Not so much of a concern apparently, now the concern is about growth. US weekly claims also not great.

The market is still up 15% in the first six months of this year - I think it'll survive a 1% down day.

Personally, I think the markets feel very expensive. But what do I know?

15% up is quite a lot given the level of uncertainty.
There is a lot we don't know about the bounce back from this.
Even if plenty claim to.

.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.

I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!

I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.

I genuinely don't recognise myself in your description. For one thing, I think you are confusing how people communicate in online forums devoted to vigorous political debate, shorn of the subtleties of in-person human interaction, and how they interact in real life. I think there's a fair amount of projection going on, too, since you are probably one of the most abrasive and thin-skinned people on this site. I recall, for instance, the time you abused my parents and my dead grandparents, solely on the basis of their political views, and ignored completely my request for an apology. Prejudiced, hurling insults, yes; polite and professional, no.
I have enjoyed friendships with people across the political spectrum, who knows perhaps IRL we could find common ground, if you could drop the permanent outrage act for just a second.

Lol. A masterclass in lack of self-awareness.

Interestingly, Ireland has decided to reopen indoor hospitality only to those fully vaccinated.

Floater said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/07/08/meet-digital-content-producer-pulled-sickie-go-wembley-got-sacked/

She took a selfie?

What an idiot

No. ITV, it seems, did the dirty.

kinabalu said:

Casino_Royale said:

kinabalu said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.

I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!

Raw is great and I'm a bit put out. He calls me "bonkers".

Because you are bonkers, genuinely thinking Corbynism is a constructive political creed, and you call those who disagree with you, including me, "reactionary", which you fail to recognise is insulting.

So, you're bonkers. Not bad on the betting mind.

Reactionary isn't an insult. Reactionary Reductive is my term of denigration albeit often used in almost affectionate way. And you, as I've made clear before, are NOT one of those.

How to distinguish an RR from a vanilla R? An RR will respond to (say) me arguing for (say) higher taxes with the following:

"Why don't you just write a cheque yourself to HMRC for the extra amount you think you should pay? But you won't do that, will you? So you're a typical leftist hypocrite."

This sort of thing.

Until you can recognise reactionary is an insult and change your behaviour accordingly you and I are not going to have a productive relationship on this site, and I simply won't engage with you other than on betting tips.

Hope that's very clear.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Interestingly, Ireland has decided to reopen indoor hospitality only to those fully vaccinated.

I'm so relieved that our government listened to the freedom loving amongst us, and not the I'm alright jack brigade.

rottenborough said:

Caitlin Moran
@caitlinmoran
·
17h
Cab ride across London during extra time - pubs exploding, horns sounding. For an England team who took the knee, wear rainbow armbands, campaign against child poverty. It feels like a cultural game-changer on the same scale as The Beatles.



Hmmm. Colour me sceptical.

And there are those who want to make it about Brexit Britain on the other side too.

It's about the football.

Carnyx said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

New trade deals

BBC News - Brexit: UK announces trade deal with Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57347874

Not great for UK fishing industry, by the look of it. The Norwegians catch the stuff and import it.

I notice Scottish shellfish fishermen have opened new markets in the Far East

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Carnyx said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

New trade deals

BBC News - Brexit: UK announces trade deal with Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57347874

Not great for UK fishing industry, by the look of it. The Norwegians catch the stuff and import it.

I notice Scottish shellfish fishermen have opened new markets in the Far East

But frozen, and not the high value fresh seafood market in Europe.

Carnyx said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Carnyx said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

New trade deals

BBC News - Brexit: UK announces trade deal with Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57347874

Not great for UK fishing industry, by the look of it. The Norwegians catch the stuff and import it.

I notice Scottish shellfish fishermen have opened new markets in the Far East

But frozen, and not the high value fresh seafood market in Europe.

Always a negative to be found

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

In a study involving 10.2 million participants in Chile, the effectiveness of an inactivated, China-developed #SARSCoV2 vaccine [SinoVac] was estimated. Effectiveness was 65.9% for infection, 87.5% for hospitalization, 90.3% for ICU admission, and 86.3% for death.

https://twitter.com/NEJM/status/1412882866971635713

That's not brilliant but ok. Enough that they would probably want a third dose only a few weeks after the second.

Oxford inventor of AZ said anything over 50% would be good and useful. iirc flu jab is around 50% effective?

Richard_Nabavi said:

Mortimer said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Interestingly, Ireland has decided to reopen indoor hospitality only to those fully vaccinated.

I'm so relieved that our government listened to the freedom loving amongst us, and not the I'm alright jack brigade.

It didn't, it kept us locked down more than necessary, with considerable avoidable economic damage, because it wasn't prepared to take account of the facts regarding vaccine protection. Today's announcements suggest they are finally getting there, but it's taken too long.

You misunderstand me. We haven't created a two-tier society. That is vitally important for those of us who cherish freedom.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.

I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!

I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.

I genuinely don't recognise myself in your description. For one thing, I think you are confusing how people communicate in online forums devoted to vigorous political debate, shorn of the subtleties of in-person human interaction, and how they interact in real life. I think there's a fair amount of projection going on, too, since you are probably one of the most abrasive and thin-skinned people on this site. I recall, for instance, the time you abused my parents and my dead grandparents, solely on the basis of their political views, and ignored completely my request for an apology. Prejudiced, hurling insults, yes; polite and professional, no.
I have enjoyed friendships with people across the political spectrum, who knows perhaps IRL we could find common ground, if you could drop the permanent outrage act for just a second.

Lol. A masterclass in lack of self-awareness.

Still no apology then.

You project exactly what you're like onto me. You seem entirely unaware of the irony of this.

I'm happy to engage with posters who disagree with me in productive discussions that lead somewhere. For that to take place they need to have the intelligence and self-awareness to meaningfully reflect on what is said. There are many posters on the liberal-Left I enjoy debating with on this forum, including Jonathan, Gallowgate, Gardenwalker, Oldkingcole, SouthamObs, Doug Seal, Sandy.

You are not one of them. To be fair, there are others too, like OllyT and Mango, but the same applies to them too.

Ah, Mr Gove's explanation for scrapping EVEL:

"having reflected on the procedure, the government believes it has not served our parliament well and that removing it would simplify the legislative process.

It’s a fundamental principle that all constituent parts of the United Kingdom should be equally represented in parliament."

As per Graun feed, which explains "The move is part of an attempt to minimise opposition to the union in Scotland. Cameron’s surprise post-referendum announcement infuriated many Scots because it implied that their MPs would no longer be full members of parliament, and some argued that they had been asked to vote to remain in the UK in a false premise."

jonny83 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Striking:



https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/07/10/some-britons-crave-permanent-pandemic-lockdown

Good to see the support for Masks still high on public transport. However many polled probably don't go on it and more the case of 'they think they should be worn' when in reality it doesn't impact/affect them.

I expect whilst I am there with my mask on I will see the level of support drop off fairly quickly and see more and more people choosing not to. At least I will continue to do my bit for others.

Masks in shops and on public transport etc are potentially different from other controls because a) you are protecting others by wearing them and b) as consumers of essential services those others may not have the choice of whether to be in your presence and be infected by you.

The rest is very determined by perceived risk. If the risk is perceived to be high many people will refuse to do those activities, resulting in commercial loss. And vice versa.

Casino_Royale said:

CarlottaVance said:

Striking:



https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/07/10/some-britons-crave-permanent-pandemic-lockdown

I'm starting to see that EiT had a point about the British hating freedom.

If you are elderly, COVID had, at one point, a CFR (Case Fatality Rate) that rivalled some of the more funky plagues in history. 30-40%

If you were facing those numbers, you'd be shit scared. And rightly so.

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

In a study involving 10.2 million participants in Chile, the effectiveness of an inactivated, China-developed #SARSCoV2 vaccine [SinoVac] was estimated. Effectiveness was 65.9% for infection, 87.5% for hospitalization, 90.3% for ICU admission, and 86.3% for death.

https://twitter.com/NEJM/status/1412882866971635713

That's not brilliant but ok. Enough that they would probably want a third dose only a few weeks after the second.

Yes, it's not great compared with the best of the other Covid vaccines, but it's very respectable compared with vaccines generally, and certainly a hell of a lot better than nothing.

Problem is that only China and the EU are exporting vaccines in quantity and even so demand restricted.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Mortimer said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Interestingly, Ireland has decided to reopen indoor hospitality only to those fully vaccinated.

I'm so relieved that our government listened to the freedom loving amongst us, and not the I'm alright jack brigade.

It didn't, it kept us locked down more than necessary, with considerable avoidable economic damage, because it wasn't prepared to take account of the facts regarding vaccine protection. Today's announcements suggest they are finally getting there, but it's taken too long.

I think it's probably OK, or even a good idea, to allow things like inside dining to the fully vaccinated, if having a current negative test also gets you in. And people can get a free test. And at some point soon, if Covid is still a problem, if you've chosen not to be vaccinated, you have to pay for the test yourself. Something like that.

Casino_Royale said:

kinabalu said:

Casino_Royale said:

kinabalu said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.

I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!

Raw is great and I'm a bit put out. He calls me "bonkers".

Because you are bonkers, genuinely thinking Corbynism is a constructive political creed, and you call those who disagree with you, including me, "reactionary", which you fail to recognise is insulting.

So, you're bonkers. Not bad on the betting mind.

Reactionary isn't an insult. Reactionary Reductive is my term of denigration albeit often used in almost affectionate way. And you, as I've made clear before, are NOT one of those.

How to distinguish an RR from a vanilla R? An RR will respond to (say) me arguing for (say) higher taxes with the following:

"Why don't you just write a cheque yourself to HMRC for the extra amount you think you should pay? But you won't do that, will you? So you're a typical leftist hypocrite."

This sort of thing.

Until you can recognise reactionary is an insult and change your behaviour accordingly you and I are not going to have a productive relationship on this site, and I simply won't engage with you other than on betting tips.

Hope that's very clear.

Well I haven't called you a reactionary for ages.

As a general point, I think the nouns are best avoided unless you're really going for it and have good reason to do so.

For example, X is a racist - this is very strong because it implies that X's racism is so pungent that it defines him. It's what he is.

Cf, X has some views which are racist, or (milder) X is not wholly free of racism. These formulations are imo better unless you're talking about (or with) a real specimen.

So, on this one, and I'm being serious and reaching out here, you are not 'a' Reactionary - that's unfair and wrong, and when I say that I'm semi bantering - but you do have some views which are reactionary. Word as per dictionary definition.

Carnyx said:

Ah, Mr Gove's explanation for scrapping EVEL:

"having reflected on the procedure, the government believes it has not served our parliament well and that removing it would simplify the legislative process.

It’s a fundamental principle that all constituent parts of the United Kingdom should be equally represented in parliament."

As per Graun feed, which explains "The move is part of an attempt to minimise opposition to the union in Scotland. Cameron’s surprise post-referendum announcement infuriated many Scots because it implied that their MPs would no longer be full members of parliament, and some argued that they had been asked to vote to remain in the UK in a false premise."

All very well scrapping EVEL but it means Scottish and Welsh MPs can vote on English domestic legislation without English MPs having any right to vote on Scottish and Welsh domestic legislation.

If the next election produces a hung parliament with Starmer becoming PM with Welsh Labour and SNP MPs support that would become a significant problem without an English Parliament, especially with a Tory majority in England

Shaun Lintern
@ShaunLintern
·
54m
Exclusive: Patients face 15-hour wait in hospital A&E as summer crisis grips NHS.
@KatherineRCEM
warns NHS faces worse situation than any previous winter:


WTF is going on? What are all these people going to A&E with?

kamski said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Mortimer said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Interestingly, Ireland has decided to reopen indoor hospitality only to those fully vaccinated.

I'm so relieved that our government listened to the freedom loving amongst us, and not the I'm alright jack brigade.

It didn't, it kept us locked down more than necessary, with considerable avoidable economic damage, because it wasn't prepared to take account of the facts regarding vaccine protection. Today's announcements suggest they are finally getting there, but it's taken too long.

I think it's probably OK, or even a good idea, to allow things like inside dining to the fully vaccinated, if having a current negative test also gets you in. And people can get a free test. And at some point soon, if Covid is still a problem, if you've chosen not to be vaccinated, you have to pay for the test yourself. Something like that.

Some of us don't want a 'papers please' society. Luckily there are enough people who cherish freedom to shout down the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade

Cookie said:

rottenborough said:

Caitlin Moran
@caitlinmoran
·
17h
Cab ride across London during extra time - pubs exploding, horns sounding. For an England team who took the knee, wear rainbow armbands, campaign against child poverty. It feels like a cultural game-changer on the same scale as The Beatles.



Hmmm. Colour me sceptical.

Jesus FUCKING Christ Lefties. Give it a fucking rest. Can we have something, anything which isn't about your fucking culture war all the fucking time.

There is so little you can do nowadays which doesn't involve getting shouted at by a fucking leftie with an agenda.

Quite right, there's nothing worse than being shouted at. Oh, hang on......

state_go_away said:

Razedabode said:

NEW: @ipsosmori polling for The Economist shows some Brits support anti-covid restrictions *permanently*, regardless of covid risk. Inc:

- 19% for nighttime curfews
- 26% for closing casinos and clubs
- 35% for travel quarantine
- 40% for masks

Amazing to think some people really do want these restrictions permanently

Its amazing and very depressing.

It's a classic case of people not being able to look out of their own narrow perspective. I don't go out much at night, so a curfew won't effect me, but might make me safe. I don't go to casino/clubs, so it doesn't matter if they're closed. I don't go abroad for holidays (and am jealous of those who do), so they can just f off. I don't go out much, and masks are fine, aren't they (though hijabs are EVIL).

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.

I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!

I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.

I genuinely don't recognise myself in your description. For one thing, I think you are confusing how people communicate in online forums devoted to vigorous political debate, shorn of the subtleties of in-person human interaction, and how they interact in real life. I think there's a fair amount of projection going on, too, since you are probably one of the most abrasive and thin-skinned people on this site. I recall, for instance, the time you abused my parents and my dead grandparents, solely on the basis of their political views, and ignored completely my request for an apology. Prejudiced, hurling insults, yes; polite and professional, no.
I have enjoyed friendships with people across the political spectrum, who knows perhaps IRL we could find common ground, if you could drop the permanent outrage act for just a second.

Lol. A masterclass in lack of self-awareness.

Still no apology then.

You project exactly what you're like onto me. You seem entirely unaware of the irony of this.

I'm happy to engage with posters who disagree with me in productive discussions that lead somewhere. For that to take place they need to have the intelligence and self-awareness to meaningfully reflect on what is said. There are many posters on the liberal-Left I enjoy debating with on this forum, including Jonathan, Gallowgate, Gardenwalker, Oldkingcole, SouthamObs, Doug Seal, Sandy.

You are not one of them. To be fair, there are others too, like OllyT and Mango, but the same applies to them too.

I think I have a reasonable degree of intelligence and self awareness, but I suppose if I were stupid and lacking in self-awareness I would think that, too. In my own conception of myself, I am unafraid of expressing my opinion, but am polite and refrain from insulting people or being personal. Perhaps tone is hard to convey online, and there may have been occasions when I have said something in jest that could come across as rude. If you feel like I've insulted you in the past I am genuinely sorry, it really wasn't intended.
In all honesty, though, I don't think I have ever been as rude to you as you have been to me, on several occasions. I've tried not to take it to heart, but I was upset when you insulted my family.

FrancisUrquhart said:

rottenborough said:

iSAGE peeps now seem to be saying case rate growth is slowing maybe because people are not getting tested.

If I have understood the latest tweets.

Shifting those goal posts again....just need the accompanying Benny Hill music.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing

Testing is going up.

Malmesbury said:

Casino_Royale said:

CarlottaVance said:

Striking:



https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/07/10/some-britons-crave-permanent-pandemic-lockdown

I'm starting to see that EiT had a point about the British hating freedom.

If you are elderly, COVID had, at one point, a CFR (Case Fatality Rate) that rivalled some of the more funky plagues in history. 30-40%

If you were facing those numbers, you'd be shit scared. And rightly so.

Perhaps, but that doesn't justify permanent restrictions - that's just barking.

rottenborough said:

Shaun Lintern
@ShaunLintern
·
54m
Exclusive: Patients face 15-hour wait in hospital A&E as summer crisis grips NHS.
@KatherineRCEM
warns NHS faces worse situation than any previous winter:


WTF is going on? What are all these people going to A&E with?

I think it's more a capacity issue, caused by a combination of multiple things:

1. Capacity is reduced because of the need for Covid precautions
2. It's further reduced because a smallish number of Covid patients are arriving and they need to be isolated from everyone else
3. Meanwhile the NHS app is pinging staff who then have to stay away from work for 10 days
4. And at the same time the NHS is trying to catch up on the backlog, further straining resources

And probably:

5. People can't get to see a GP.

I have just been out to vote on our local Neighbourhood Plan and saw the people from next door but one. Just over two weeks ago they invited us round for drinks in their garden. They have been double vaxxed and so have we. They told me that 2 days after the drinks do they came down with Covid.

JosiasJessop said:

state_go_away said:

Razedabode said:

NEW: @ipsosmori polling for The Economist shows some Brits support anti-covid restrictions *permanently*, regardless of covid risk. Inc:

- 19% for nighttime curfews
- 26% for closing casinos and clubs
- 35% for travel quarantine
- 40% for masks

Amazing to think some people really do want these restrictions permanently

Its amazing and very depressing.

It's a classic case of people not being able to look out of their own narrow perspective. I don't go out much at night, so a curfew won't effect me, but might make me safe. I don't go to casino/clubs, so it doesn't matter if they're closed. I don't go abroad for holidays (and am jealous of those who do), so they can just f off. I don't go out much, and masks are fine, aren't they (though hijabs are EVIL).

yes its like me saying doughnuts should be banned because I hate them personally and never eat them (on the reasoning that they are bad for you )

Mortimer said:

kamski said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Mortimer said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Interestingly, Ireland has decided to reopen indoor hospitality only to those fully vaccinated.

I'm so relieved that our government listened to the freedom loving amongst us, and not the I'm alright jack brigade.

It didn't, it kept us locked down more than necessary, with considerable avoidable economic damage, because it wasn't prepared to take account of the facts regarding vaccine protection. Today's announcements suggest they are finally getting there, but it's taken too long.

I think it's probably OK, or even a good idea, to allow things like inside dining to the fully vaccinated, if having a current negative test also gets you in. And people can get a free test. And at some point soon, if Covid is still a problem, if you've chosen not to be vaccinated, you have to pay for the test yourself. Something like that.

Some of us don't want a 'papers please' society. Luckily there are enough people who cherish freedom to shout down the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade

But you've just lived through a time when it literally wasn't allowed to leave your house without a government approved reason! That seems to me to be several orders of magnitude worse in terms of loss of freedom than saying if want to eat inside a restaurant show a test or a vaccination certificate.

And who are the "I'm alright Jack brigade"? People who have been vaccinated plus people willing to take a test to reduce the chance that might be passing on a potentially fatal disease? I don't get it.

Malmesbury said:

Casino_Royale said:

CarlottaVance said:

Striking:



https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/07/10/some-britons-crave-permanent-pandemic-lockdown

I'm starting to see that EiT had a point about the British hating freedom.

If you are elderly, COVID had, at one point, a CFR (Case Fatality Rate) that rivalled some of the more funky plagues in history. 30-40%

If you were facing those numbers, you'd be shit scared. And rightly so.

I've just been to see my parents, who are visiting in their caravan (it's my dad's 85th birthday today) They're on a caravanning holiday; are worried about the virus (and are happy with precautions like masks), but also want a normal life. Hence the caravanning holiday.

They're concerned, but not scared. Both double-jabbed (one Pfizer, one AZ). I think it's a case of not doing anything silly, but wanting to live their lives whilst they can. If they get ill, then so be it - but they're at an age when the reaper is, if not a friend, not exactly a stranger.

Their view is that they're lucky to still be able to caravan in their eighties. Many of their friends cannot.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.

I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!

I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.

I genuinely don't recognise myself in your description. For one thing, I think you are confusing how people communicate in online forums devoted to vigorous political debate, shorn of the subtleties of in-person human interaction, and how they interact in real life. I think there's a fair amount of projection going on, too, since you are probably one of the most abrasive and thin-skinned people on this site. I recall, for instance, the time you abused my parents and my dead grandparents, solely on the basis of their political views, and ignored completely my request for an apology. Prejudiced, hurling insults, yes; polite and professional, no.
I have enjoyed friendships with people across the political spectrum, who knows perhaps IRL we could find common ground, if you could drop the permanent outrage act for just a second.

Lol. A masterclass in lack of self-awareness.

Still no apology then.

You project exactly what you're like onto me. You seem entirely unaware of the irony of this.

I'm happy to engage with posters who disagree with me in productive discussions that lead somewhere. For that to take place they need to have the intelligence and self-awareness to meaningfully reflect on what is said. There are many posters on the liberal-Left I enjoy debating with on this forum, including Jonathan, Gallowgate, Gardenwalker, Oldkingcole, SouthamObs, Doug Seal, Sandy.

You are not one of them. To be fair, there are others too, like OllyT and Mango, but the same applies to them too.

I think I have a reasonable degree of intelligence and self awareness, but I suppose if I were stupid and lacking in self-awareness I would think that, too. In my own conception of myself, I am unafraid of expressing my opinion, but am polite and refrain from insulting people or being personal. Perhaps tone is hard to convey online, and there may have been occasions when I have said something in jest that could come across as rude. If you feel like I've insulted you in the past I am genuinely sorry, it really wasn't intended.
In all honesty, though, I don't think I have ever been as rude to you as you have been to me, on several occasions. I've tried not to take it to heart, but I was upset when you insulted my family.

I'm sorry if you felt I'd insulted your family. I simply observed that your political views appeared to run in your family in a sardonic way.

I don't like the way you throw around Gammon and Boomer and accuse others of prejudice whilst exhibiting some forms yourself, including crass generalisations. When you talk like that I feel you're insulting me and my family. I also get frustrated at how any discussion I have with you rolls back to step one, even if we make progress, the very next day. It makes you tiresome and annoying.

However, I'm happy to make peace if you are. We all have things to learn.

Carnyx said:

Ah, Mr Gove's explanation for scrapping EVEL:

"having reflected on the procedure, the government believes it has not served our parliament well and that removing it would simplify the legislative process.

It’s a fundamental principle that all constituent parts of the United Kingdom should be equally represented in parliament."

As per Graun feed, which explains "The move is part of an attempt to minimise opposition to the union in Scotland. Cameron’s surprise post-referendum announcement infuriated many Scots because it implied that their MPs would no longer be full members of parliament, and some argued that they had been asked to vote to remain in the UK in a false premise."

If Gove really believes that, he’s high on his own supply.
The idea that removing the tiny EVEL deckchair from the deck while leaving the giant Brexit one flapping about and smacking folk in the puss makes a tuppence worth of difference is dim. I’m pretty sure I know which of them most folk would consider relates to having been asked to vote to remain in the UK in a false premise.

Richard_Nabavi said:

rottenborough said:

Shaun Lintern
@ShaunLintern
·
54m
Exclusive: Patients face 15-hour wait in hospital A&E as summer crisis grips NHS.
@KatherineRCEM
warns NHS faces worse situation than any previous winter:


WTF is going on? What are all these people going to A&E with?

I think it's more a capacity issue, caused by a combination of multiple things:

1. Capacity is reduced because of the need for Covid precautions
2. It's further reduced because a smallish number of Covid patients are arriving and they need to be isolated from everyone else
3. Meanwhile the NHS app is pinging staff who then have to stay away from work for 10 days
4. And at the same time the NHS is trying to catch up on the backlog, further straining resources

And probably:

5. People can't get to see a GP.

The issue I have is that governments (English and Scottish) don't appear to have any plan. Hospitals have to deal with what gets thrown at them, but it would be good to understand what the issues actually are and have mitigations in place for them. They have given up.

HYUFD said:

Government considering allowing ministers who are not MPs or Lords

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1413171132455346182?s=20

This is what Dominic Cummings wanted (are we sure he was sacked, and is not just WFH for Boris?). This is the American system, but without the checks and balances. There are doubtless good arguments for it. Democratic accountability won't be one.