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C&A: The by-election campaign that was totally ignored by the media – politicalbetting.com

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  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.

    My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth

    It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline

    I long for the classic beauty of the building it replaced. Truly the worst form of vandalism

  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.

    The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.

    The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.
    As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.

    For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."

    Sounds very like me tbh!
    If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?
    There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.

    It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
    Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.
    Weird.

    Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?

    Brexiters own Brexit.
    It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.

    After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.

    Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.
    Quite. And from that awkward position - in the SM with no say - it might have been easier to persuade the British people to rejoin, it would definitely have been easier to progressively tie us closer to Brussels

    It amazed me at the time that Remainers didn't see this. They kept twisting not sticking
    And the ringleader of this was OGH's hero SKS. All he needed to do was to support May's deal and Labour would have won the election and the tories would be split for decades. It was the biggest wasted opportunity ever in the history of modern politics.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The new building is hideous. But it replaced a building that was vile.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.

    The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.

    The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.
    As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.

    For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."

    Sounds very like me tbh!
    If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?
    There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.

    It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
    Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.
    Annulling the referendum was not "perfection", it was stupendous folly which had to be defeated

    It is astonishing, in retrospect, that the Liberal "Democrats" literally campaigned with a policy of cancelling democracy
    Since when was modern democracy simpy "rule by the mob"? The Lib Dems think that what has happened is more or less disastrous and for them to pretend otherwise wouldn´t fool anyone. So the Lib Dems are perfectly within their rights to put their policy to the popular vote, and even if rejected at least they have the guts to stick to their principles. The fact that a Trumpian Tory party relies on a crooked media and electoral system makes it even more important to speak up for what you beleive.

    More people thnk that the 2016 vote was a mistake than those who support the current government in any event, but that is another story.

    The current verdict of politics favours the Tories, but the verdict of history is unlikely to be anything like so kind.
    Sure, and the Liberal Democrats are free to campaign, next time, on a policy of throwing elderly Mancunians into the Thames, because they think that too is sensible or whatever, and I am free to point out that such a policy is insane, evil; and dangerous, as was their policy of simply Revoking the biggest vote in British political history
    The interesting thing on current LD campaign rhetoric is that it seems to have gone from

    "we demand that you do not build any houses here for our children to live in" (see C&A)

    to

    "Henny Penny have you heard that the Corona Sky is falling down?" (or something)

    to

    "we demand compulsory masks for an extra fortnight" (or similar)

    A new dawn ...


  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.

    The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.

    The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.
    As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.

    For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."

    Sounds very like me tbh!
    If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?
    There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.

    It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
    Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.
    Weird.

    Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?

    Brexiters own Brexit.
    It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.

    After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.

    Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.
    People make mistakes all the time and mostly don't change them, but live with them. We're on a long journey with the Brexit mistake. No-one has learnt how to live with Brexit yet, including Leavers, but eventually I think people will. I don't think it's sustainable to keep pretending Europe doesn't exist and at the same time blame it for everything. At some point there will be some implicit understanding, but it will be pretty much on the EU's terms. It's what it is. Mistakes don't go away because you plough on with them regardless.
    - around 68 million people are presumably "living with Brexit" now in one way or other
    - I've never met anyone who pretends that "Europe doesn't exist", or for that matter anybody who blames it for everything
    - indeed mistakes don't go away if you plough on, which is why we reversed our 1972 error five years ago.
    Maybe living with Brexit in same way as we are now living with the virus? There is a heck of a lot to be resolved with Brexit and we are not resolving it. Yet. But I think we will do. It's too exhausting and counter to our interests not to
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    gealbhan said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?

    I was once at a Derby della Capitale where the Roma fans chucked a burning scooter off the roof of the stadium into a mob of Tifoseria Laziale. It was brilliant. Total football.
    I was at a match in Swindon where one fan was kicked to death another led out with dart in forehead.
    Many moons ago I was at an old firm match and in Celtic end with my Celtic supporting friends, which was dodgy enough , but all standing and hugely overcrowded, you could also take in unlimited alcohol as well. Small skirmish started close to us and a guy opened his coat and got out a sabre, certainly cleared a bit of space.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    Scottish R is definitely sub 1 right now. I think it's due to schools being broken up tbh
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,673
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night

    The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655

    He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.
    It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to football

    They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
    You do seem a trifle obsessed too, today.
    Who's mentioning Brexit here?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night

    The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655

    He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.
    It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to football

    They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
    You do seem a trifle obsessed too, today.
    He is.

    But there's a certain amount of supporting evidence.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    DougSeal said:

    FF43 said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.

    The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.

    The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.
    As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.

    For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."

    Sounds very like me tbh!
    If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?
    There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.

    It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
    Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.
    Weird.

    Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?

    Brexiters own Brexit.
    It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.

    After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.

    Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.
    People make mistakes all the time and mostly don't change them, but live with them. We're on a long journey with the Brexit mistake. No-one has learnt how to live with Brexit yet, including Leavers, but eventually I think people will. I don't think it's sustainable to keep pretending Europe doesn't exist and at the same time blame it for everything. At some point there will be some implicit understanding, but it will be pretty much on the EU's terms. It's what it is. Mistakes don't go away because you plough on with them regardless.
    There was a point when damage limitation was possible. We pissed it away on a winner takes all showdown. With Corbyn as our gunslinger.
    My view is that we will eventually embrace damage limitation. Pretending the damage doesn't exist and at the same time complaining about it isn't sustainable IMO.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,217
    Alistair said:

    The new building is hideous. But it replaced a building that was vile.

    It's a massive wasted opportunity to replace an eyesore with another. Seems hard to believe that there wasn't a design possible that would be better than the old building and somehow not involve a turd.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,673
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night

    The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655

    He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.
    It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to football

    They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
    You do seem a trifle obsessed too, today.
    He is.

    But there's a certain amount of supporting evidence.
    I'm sure those footie controversies would have been equally well voiced if we were in the EU or not.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited July 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Scottish R is definitely sub 1 right now. I think it's due to schools being broken up tbh

    I think 19 July was picked with the school holidays in mind. Interesting chart on Zoe today though (opinions on Zoe differ but I do think it is good for spotting national trends, useless at a local level though). The interpretation Zoe puts on vaccinated is liberal - if you got a single dose yesterday you’re included in the orange line.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5nIGH7XIAM6I2k?format=jpg&name=medium
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,707
    OT Deliveroo has an exciting new feature. Today my ticket identifies me as a regular customer with more than five orders. More than 250 by my count. So instead of making me feel like a valued customer, it makes me feel undervalued.

    As with software development, as with politics, as with life, some spotty youth has a brainwave that is adopted and shoved straight into production without consideration, review or testing.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887

    DougSeal said:

    Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.

    The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.

    The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.
    As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.

    For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."

    Sounds very like me tbh!
    If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?
    There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.

    It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
    Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.
    Weird.

    Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?

    Brexiters own Brexit.
    TBH I think that Femi & friends do have a certain impact as maintenance staff keeping the tyres of the outrage bus well-pumped.

    Currently it seems to be Perfidious Albion having a double standard wrt only NHS double vaccinated being allowed to avoid quarantine for the UK, not similar from Eu countries.

    Various of our EU friends having done something similar seems not to count.

    I think we can expect Mons. Macaron to threaten to cut off something (in addition to his own Credibility) Real Soon Now.



  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455

    OT Deliveroo has an exciting new feature. Today my ticket identifies me as a regular customer with more than five orders. More than 250 by my count. So instead of making me feel like a valued customer, it makes me feel undervalued.

    As with software development, as with politics, as with life, some spotty youth has a brainwave that is adopted and shoved straight into production without consideration, review or testing.

    Such is the nature of much modern, agile software development. A quick smoke test to make sure it doesn’t crash, then straight to production and let the customers QA it. Grrr.....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678
    Scotland positives well down on last week, W&NI still rising:

    Country, deaths, positives (deaths, positives last Thursday):

    Sco, 2802,4 (4234,6)
    Wal, 701, 0 (481,0)
    NI 627,0 (326,0)

    I'm expecting to see seven day average positives for Scotland and NW England showing a clear drop in the next day or three.

    (https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats)
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Cookie said:

    Scotland positives well down on last week, W&NI still rising:

    Country, deaths, positives (deaths, positives last Thursday):

    Sco, 2802,4 (4234,6)
    Wal, 701, 0 (481,0)
    NI 627,0 (326,0)

    I'm expecting to see seven day average positives for Scotland and NW England showing a clear drop in the next day or three.

    (https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats)

    I concur.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021
    Tifo football guys made an interesting observation about England re generous penalty. Historically England have a reputation for strong, fit, athletic footballer who aren't as technically good others but hard to knock off the ball. You go physical against them as they love to fight for the ball.

    What we now have is strong, fit, athletic footballers who are much better technically and now well trained to use the perception you can give them a shove and they will still stand up and fight for the ball against the opposition. Harry Kane and Sterling being two classic examples. Both very strong and hard to knock off the ball if they choose, but have also incorporated the continental style of winning a foul by becoming all weak in the body at crucial positions.

    Makes it hard for defenders, mark them as if they are weak and they will out muscle up. Go in hard and they may crumple.

    Grealish is another who is brilliant at showing you the ball, convincing you that you can win it if you fight.for it and he then just moves it out of your range and takes the foul.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.

    My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth

    It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline

    I long for the classic beauty of the building it replaced. Truly the worst form of vandalism

    Oh, please don't. Brings back horrible memories.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Or - she just had to be different for the sake of domestic politics......
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021
    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scottish R is definitely sub 1 right now. I think it's due to schools being broken up tbh

    I think 19 July was picked with the school holidays in mind. Interesting chart on Zoe today though (opinions on Zoe differ but I do think it is good for spotting national trends, useless at a local level though). The interpretation Zoe puts on vaccinated is liberal - if you got a single dose yesterday you’re included in the orange line.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5nIGH7XIAM6I2k?format=jpg&name=medium
    They have a better chart in their videos with unvaxxed, single dose, fully vaxxed. Fully vaxxed really standing out in terms of lack of tick up in new cases. That's not to say its none, its about 10% of total cases.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HT @rwilliams1947

    Fun fact. England squad member Ben Chilwell is from Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes literally didn’t even exist the last time England reached a final.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455
    edited July 2021
    As predicted:

    From 19th July, when returning from Amber list countries:

    Vaccinated = test and release on negative
    Unvaccinated = 10 days’ quarantine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/08/boris-johnson-shapps-holidays-vaccine-quarantine-covid-tests/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    Alistair said:

    The new building is hideous. But it replaced a building that was vile.

    It's a massive wasted opportunity to replace an eyesore with another. Seems hard to believe that there wasn't a design possible that would be better than the old building and somehow not involve a turd.
    If there weren't plenty of hills and a castle and national museum rooftop already, it's roof'd be a great place from which to admire the beauty of Edinburgh.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,152
    Leon said:



    Quite. And from that awkward position - in the SM with no say - it might have been easier to persuade the British people to rejoin, it would definitely have been easier to progressively tie us closer to Brussels

    It amazed me at the time that Remainers didn't see this. They kept twisting not sticking

    Couldn't have happened in either the 2015-17 or 2017-19 parliaments.
    Any concrete Brexit had to be able to clear two hurdles;
    1 Win a majority in Parliament as a whole, or it couldn't pass into law.
    2 Win a majority in the Conservative Party, or the PM would be no-confidenced faster than you can say "vassal state".

    Consider the miseries that TM-then-PM went through with her party trying to get her deal through. Whilst that was a bit softer than where we currently are, it's only soft in the way that old-fashioned toilet paper (the stuff that looks like tracing paper) is softer than sandpaper.

    The only other way to make something else happen would have been for a not-Conservative government of uncertain duration to take over. Which would have created all sorts of problems going forward. And besides, that would have either meant PM Corbyn or Corbyn standing aside for AN Other. Public opinion stopped the first, and the vanity of a dim leftie stopped the second.

    Unlocking the Brexit process needed a big Conservative majority so that both hurdles could be crossed in one bound. So they get to implement Brexit they want. That's how it rolls for now. (My hunch is that soft and hard Leavers both planned a cunning double cross- ally with each other to get the concept of Leave across the line, then a quick betrayal to get the form of leaving they actually wanted. And the hard leavers read the landscape better.)

    So I'm not sure that there was a way of stopping this. What, perhaps, could have been done differently was to ensure the responsibility landed unambiguously where it should be.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Tifo football guys made an interesting observation about England re generous penalty. Historically England have a reputation for strong, fit, athletic footballer who aren't as technically good others but hard to knock off the ball. You go physical against them as they love to fight for the ball.

    What we now have is strong, fit, athletic footballers who are much better technically and now well trained to use the perception you can give them a shove and they will still stand up and fight for the ball against the opposition. Harry Kane and Sterling being two classic examples. Both very strong and hard to knock off the ball if they choose, but have also incorporated the continental style of winning a foul by becoming all weak in the body at crucial positions.

    Makes it hard for defenders, mark them as if they are weak and they will out muscle up. Go in hard and they may crumple.

    Grealish is another who is brilliant at showing you the ball, convincing you that you can win it if you fight.for it and he then just moves it out of your range and takes the foul.

    Spot on - see we can learn from Europe :smiley:
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    Sandpit said:

    As predicted:

    From 19th July, when returning from Amber list countries:

    Vaccinated = test and release on negative
    Unvaccinated = 10 days’ quarantine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/08/boris-johnson-shapps-holidays-vaccine-quarantine-covid-tests/

    And if you return on the 18th, vaccinated, negative test, 10 days quarantine...
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    Scotland positives well down on last week, W&NI still rising:

    Country, deaths, positives (deaths, positives last Thursday):

    Sco, 2802,4 (4234,6)
    Wal, 701, 0 (481,0)
    NI 627,0 (326,0)

    I'm expecting to see seven day average positives for Scotland and NW England showing a clear drop in the next day or three.

    (https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats)

    I concur.
    Delta in Scotland is following India, steep rise then steep fall
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,871
    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    Britain’s chief Brexit negotiator David Frost was lobbied by a former Russian arms executive and Tory donor at a key point during trade talks with the EU, newly disclosed letters reveal
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tycoon-lobbied-brexit-negotiator-energy-deal-brdhvp6nm?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625750408
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    As predicted:

    From 19th July, when returning from Amber list countries:

    Vaccinated = test and release on negative
    Unvaccinated = 10 days’ quarantine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/08/boris-johnson-shapps-holidays-vaccine-quarantine-covid-tests/

    And if you return on the 18th, vaccinated, negative test, 10 days quarantine...
    So don't return on the 18th then.

    There's always a cut-off when rules change.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Scott_xP said:

    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511

    Yet again we are beaten by the Dutch. Somehow cases there have risen sixfold in the last week,
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683
    Floater said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Or - she just had to be different for the sake of domestic politics......
    No, I think not; the rate is still just too high and domestic politics would have made fairly similar demands. Look at how Mr Johnson's policies are unpopular in England (so far).

    I'm actually very relieved about further mask wearing - a family member is vulnerable and it just helps to reduce the risk.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Leon said:

    The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.

    My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth

    It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline

    Without the turd on the roof, the building is nondescript. With it your eye is inevitably drawn to the unmentionable. I suspect that design feature will go. No-one wants to live and work in a turd.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Mustique report is is as devastating as a report that doesn't find him guilty can be.

    One day somebody will be able to explain how it is that Johnson managed to convince so many people that the rules that apply to everyone else don't apply to him. It's a mystery to me.
    It's an interesting question. Perhaps part of it is that the people knew he was like this when he was elected. He has not spent years arguing for such rules, only to break them. It's expected (sadly). It's priced in.

    Then there's the fact that his opponents often over-egg the pudding, as we see with some on here. Making Johnson out to be evil is wrong, and can be seen to be wrong.

    Also, his failings are very human.

    He's also different from other politicians, and he delivered something (Brexit) he promised - a task many politicians fail at. If he has to break the rules a little to get there, so what?

    Now, I disagree with much of the above - but I can see how people might feel it.
    Yes to all of that. And there's a class angle too. The insouciant toff who floats above the hard sweepings of workaday life. It's 'born to rule' entitlement at play here - pure and simple - but Johnson manages to do it in a way that elicits amusement and applause. The working class people sucked into his brand probably don't realize they are succumbing to class deference but I can assure them they are.
    I have come to the conclusion that there is a large section of the so-called working class person that has no problem with such deference. If not, why would the Royal Family be so popular (and I don't mean the TV show!)?
    Yes. You can debate to what degree class deference is in the mix (re Johnson, re the Royals) but it certainly is in the mix. Not a comfortable thought for many - those who like to think class is no longer of great relevance in England in 2021 - but it's best recognized imo.
    I think the appeal is classless, the attraction is to People Who Get On Telly. Johnson may have Eton in his background, but it's more about hIGNFY (my uppercase h is broken) but he might have done equally well if he'd risen through the ranks through Love Island, or professional football. People don't get much mileage out of merely being the 16th marquess of somewhere any longer.
    Some of that too. Celeb power. Lots of it in fact. But imo class is in there. It's a little bit to do with how Churchill used to walk around butt naked in front of people. That takes a certain something and you're more likely to have it if you're upper echelon. Bet Johnson would have no probs doing it for example. Starmer not so much.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455
    90/6 Pakistan. Not their best day’s cricket.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    DougSeal said:

    HT @rwilliams1947

    Fun fact. England squad member Ben Chilwell is from Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes literally didn’t even exist the last time England reached a final.

    Well technically the village of Milton Keynes existed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.

    My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth

    It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline

    Without the turd on the roof, the building is nondescript. With it your eye is inevitably drawn to the unmentionable. I suspect that design feature will go. No-one wants to live and work in a turd.
    Not to mention the management. Imagine the corporate image of 1 Jobby as an address for your practice, or office.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678
    DougSeal said:

    HT @rwilliams1947

    Fun fact. England squad member Ben Chilwell is from Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes literally didn’t even exist the last time England reached a final.

    A pedant writes: https://www.livingarchive.org.uk/content/local-history/areas/milton-keynes-village/milton-keynes-village

    I know what you mean, and your point is entirely merited. I'm just having fun racing to be first pb pedant to the point.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678
    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    HT @rwilliams1947

    Fun fact. England squad member Ben Chilwell is from Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes literally didn’t even exist the last time England reached a final.

    A pedant writes: https://www.livingarchive.org.uk/content/local-history/areas/milton-keynes-village/milton-keynes-village

    I know what you mean, and your point is entirely merited. I'm just having fun racing to be first pb pedant to the point.
    EDIT: Gah! @williamglenn beat me to it!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,217
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    The new building is hideous. But it replaced a building that was vile.

    It's a massive wasted opportunity to replace an eyesore with another. Seems hard to believe that there wasn't a design possible that would be better than the old building and somehow not involve a turd.
    If there weren't plenty of hills and a castle and national museum rooftop already, it's roof'd be a great place from which to admire the beauty of Edinburgh.
    Any roof is a great place to admire a view. I don't see that this one had to have the turd in order to be built.

    And it's there now in every view from every other vantage point.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Carnyx said:

    Floater said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Or - she just had to be different for the sake of domestic politics......
    No, I think not; the rate is still just too high and domestic politics would have made fairly similar demands. Look at how Mr Johnson's policies are unpopular in England (so far).

    I'm actually very relieved about further mask wearing - a family member is vulnerable and it just helps to reduce the risk.
    My sense of civic duty is in direct conflict with my hatred of the damn things. I’m going to carry one and play it by ear. If I’m in an empty train carriage I might not wear it, more than a few people nearby I will. It will be interesting to see what the public does.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    The new building is hideous. But it replaced a building that was vile.

    It's a massive wasted opportunity to replace an eyesore with another. Seems hard to believe that there wasn't a design possible that would be better than the old building and somehow not involve a turd.
    If there weren't plenty of hills and a castle and national museum rooftop already, it's roof'd be a great place from which to admire the beauty of Edinburgh.
    Any roof is a great place to admire a view. I don't see that this one had to have the turd in order to be built.

    And it's there now in every view from every other vantage point.
    I was being ironic - the one place you don't see a turd is when one is standing on it ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    @Cookie fpt:

    While I accept your premise that the percentage of gay people is not homogenous across all professions it is also inconceivable that the number in football is so low that it appears to be zero.

    Also yes people don't come out because of the negative reaction to them coming out whether that be fans, team mates, or the media. Why else would they not? There clearly is an issue in football as there is/was with race.

    I guess we have to go through the stages of people coming out so that it is accepted before we can get to my original point which is people do not need to come out, because coming out is of no interest to anyone, a bit like a straight person declaring they are straight - who cares?

    I suspect that being an out gay footballer would be met with a shrug, and little more than a bit of shower banter from the players. Times have moved on.

    Fans too, where Pride events, flags etc go unremarked in crowds, indeed after one Leicester match the season before last, much of the crowd drifted up to Vicky Park for Leicester Pride to party into the night.
    Its remarkable how fast the attitude towards LGB people has transformed. In the space of a generation its completely changed and now its basically embarrassing if anyone has an issue with them. Its really a change for the better.

    I left the T off deliberately as the awkward collission between T rights and Women's Rights is an unresolved issue.
    You'll be able to put the T back on in due course. It will be resolved as soon as people focus on the practical issues rather than the theology.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    HT @rwilliams1947

    Fun fact. England squad member Ben Chilwell is from Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes literally didn’t even exist the last time England reached a final.

    Well technically the village of Milton Keynes existed.
    I’d forgotten what the “p” in PB really stands for ;)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887
    edited July 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511

    Has someone been kidnapped by Dr Who?

    The date measured in that article is from June 23 to June 30.

    COVID cases in England rose by 71% in the week to 30 June compared to the previous seven days, with a total of 135,685 people testing positive, latest Test and Trace figures show.

    Today is July 8th. Sky News = shit in this case.

    And in the week since then the weekly change in cases has fallen from a change of 70% to about 40%.


  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,152
    FF43 said:

    DougSeal said:

    FF43 said:



    People make mistakes all the time and mostly don't change them, but live with them. We're on a long journey with the Brexit mistake. No-one has learnt how to live with Brexit yet, including Leavers, but eventually I think people will. I don't think it's sustainable to keep pretending Europe doesn't exist and at the same time blame it for everything. At some point there will be some implicit understanding, but it will be pretty much on the EU's terms. It's what it is. Mistakes don't go away because you plough on with them regardless.

    There was a point when damage limitation was possible. We pissed it away on a winner takes all showdown. With Corbyn as our gunslinger.
    My view is that we will eventually embrace damage limitation. Pretending the damage doesn't exist and at the same time complaining about it isn't sustainable IMO.
    You know how people have described the Good Friday Agreement as "Sunningdale for slow learners"? Unless the EU actually breaks up, any UK-EU arrangement is going to be asymmetric, because the will of more people trumps the will of fewer people.

    BoJo has described his ambition as placing the UK outside the lunar pull of the EU. The thing is, gravity doesn't work like that; a distant orbit is still an orbit. And the orbit of a comet (for example) can go from very distant to very close.

    The future is a very long time.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,217
    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511

    Yet again we are beaten by the Dutch. Somehow cases there have risen sixfold in the last week,
    There is a recent story about a trial nightclub event in the Netherlands that an astonishing number of attendees tested positive afterwards, and had faked negative tests to gain entry.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/at-least-180-infected-after-dutch-disco-despite-showing-covid-19-certificates-1.4611870
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2021

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night

    The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655

    He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.
    It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to football

    They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
    Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.
    Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voila

    Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum

    The other fuckers never gave up after Maastricht. Why would you expect any different from the other side?
    I don't. But the hardcore market for this is 20-25% of the electorate.

    There's a bigger one (45-50%) for closer alignment so that's what I think will play out if/when it's still a factor when there's a next change of Government.
    I'm sceptical that closer alignment will actually happen next time there's a change of government.

    Logic being that the next time there's a change of government it will have its own priorities for the future (eg on the NHS, education, spending etc) and may not wish to get bogged down in redoing Brexit issues of the past.

    As bitter as the divide over Brexit has been, by the time there's a change of government it may be deemed better to let sleeping dogs lie by then.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    Raw is great and I'm a bit put out. He calls me "bonkers".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511

    Has someone been kidnapped by Dr Who?

    The date measured in that article is from June 23 to June 30.

    COVID cases in England rose by 71% in the week to 30 June compared to the previous seven days, with a total of 135,685 people testing positive, latest Test and Trace figures show.

    Today is July 8th. Sky News = shit in this case.

    And in the week since then the weekly change in cases has fallen from a change of 70% to about 40%.


    Media being shit with data.....knock me down with a feather....and stick a ruler through a trend line to infinity...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    @Cookie fpt:

    While I accept your premise that the percentage of gay people is not homogenous across all professions it is also inconceivable that the number in football is so low that it appears to be zero.

    Also yes people don't come out because of the negative reaction to them coming out whether that be fans, team mates, or the media. Why else would they not? There clearly is an issue in football as there is/was with race.

    I guess we have to go through the stages of people coming out so that it is accepted before we can get to my original point which is people do not need to come out, because coming out is of no interest to anyone, a bit like a straight person declaring they are straight - who cares?

    I suspect that being an out gay footballer would be met with a shrug, and little more than a bit of shower banter from the players. Times have moved on.

    Fans too, where Pride events, flags etc go unremarked in crowds, indeed after one Leicester match the season before last, much of the crowd drifted up to Vicky Park for Leicester Pride to party into the night.
    Its remarkable how fast the attitude towards LGB people has transformed. In the space of a generation its completely changed and now its basically embarrassing if anyone has an issue with them. Its really a change for the better.

    I left the T off deliberately as the awkward collission between T rights and Women's Rights is an unresolved issue.
    You'll be able to put the T back on in due course. It will be resolved as soon as people focus on the practical issues rather than the theology.
    That's the issue though - whether transwomen/biologically born males can be in women's only spaces or take part in women's only sport etc is an entirely practical issue.

    There seems to be much less of an issue for transmen.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    NEW The Delta variant is having a good summer - its R rate is 1.87 in the REACT study we run with @ImperialMed — meaning that every 10 people infected with the virus are likely to pass it on to about 18 others… let’s hope this goes ok…
    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1413076027341950976
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,217
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    The new building is hideous. But it replaced a building that was vile.

    It's a massive wasted opportunity to replace an eyesore with another. Seems hard to believe that there wasn't a design possible that would be better than the old building and somehow not involve a turd.
    If there weren't plenty of hills and a castle and national museum rooftop already, it's roof'd be a great place from which to admire the beauty of Edinburgh.
    Any roof is a great place to admire a view. I don't see that this one had to have the turd in order to be built.

    And it's there now in every view from every other vantage point.
    I was being ironic - the one place you don't see a turd is when one is standing on it ...
    That's true. They've ensured that the best views of the city will all be from their building. Devious.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,585

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night

    The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655

    He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.
    It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to football

    They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
    Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.
    Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voila

    Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum

    The other fuckers never gave up after Maastricht. Why would you expect any different from the other side?
    I don't. But the hardcore market for this is 20-25% of the electorate.

    There's a bigger one (45-50%) for closer alignment so that's what I think will play out if/when it's still a factor when there's a next change of Government.
    I'm sceptical that closer alignment will actually happen next time there's a change of government.

    Logic being that the next time there's a change of government it will have its own priorities for the future (eg on the NHS, education, spending etc) and may not wish to get bogged down in redoing Brexit issues of the past.

    As bitter as the divide over Brexit has been, by the time there's a change of government it may be deemed better to let sleeping dogs lie by then.
    Danger is that the next government won't have it's own priorities in any meaningful sense, as it's be some horrendous admixture of Labour, SNP and Lib Dem, and they may well find that Remoaning is a rare unifying force for them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW The Delta variant is having a good summer - its R rate is 1.87 in the REACT study we run with @ImperialMed — meaning that every 10 people infected with the virus are likely to pass it on to about 18 others… let’s hope this goes ok…
    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1413076027341950976

    Now we have fully vaxxed, partially vaxed and unvaxxed populations, a single R rate isn't that helpful. As proportions of vaxxed groups is ever changing and gulf of difference between 5 year olds getting it and 85 year olds.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,661
    edited July 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    The new building is hideous. But it replaced a building that was vile.

    It's a massive wasted opportunity to replace an eyesore with another. Seems hard to believe that there wasn't a design possible that would be better than the old building and somehow not involve a turd.
    If there weren't plenty of hills and a castle and national museum rooftop already, it's roof'd be a great place from which to admire the beauty of Edinburgh.
    Any roof is a great place to admire a view. I don't see that this one had to have the turd in order to be built.

    And it's there now in every view from every other vantage point.
    It will of course be the best view-point in Edinburgh, because it will be the only place from which the turd doesn't spoil the view. The architects/comissioners are smarter than we give them credit for.

    Edit: Ah, I was late, I see, to that particular point....
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,272
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    As predicted:

    From 19th July, when returning from Amber list countries:

    Vaccinated = test and release on negative
    Unvaccinated = 10 days’ quarantine.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/08/boris-johnson-shapps-holidays-vaccine-quarantine-covid-tests/

    And if you return on the 18th, vaccinated, negative test, 10 days quarantine...
    Yes, I was surprised they didn't address the taper (actually. with this government, no I wasn't). Kids will be being sent home from school towards the end of this week and I am curious whether they will be told to isolate beyond the 19th. My daughter is isolating into mid next week - I am tempted to tell the school she remains remote until the 19th for the couple of days that entails. It's not like she bunks off.

    But if we send her in and get another cycle (which would be our 4th set this year) and they do tell her to stay off school beyond the 19th, OK she'll do that much, but beyond the 19th we won't be regarding that as full self isolation and we will be making judgement calls (and by the way I'm not sure the legal status of some of the school self isolation now when there hasn't ever been contact from track and trace as such - we've not had formal individual notification in all cases).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Westminster, no doubt.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922

    That's true. They've ensured that the best views of the city will all be from their building. Devious.

    The best view of the city is from the window of the office in the castle that was at one time used by the chief electrical engineer for Historic Scotland.

    It looks directly down the Royal Mile.

    You can't see the turd from there
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited July 2021

    OT Deliveroo has an exciting new feature. Today my ticket identifies me as a regular customer with more than five orders. More than 250 by my count. So instead of making me feel like a valued customer, it makes me feel undervalued.

    As with software development, as with politics, as with life, some spotty youth has a brainwave that is adopted and shoved straight into production without consideration, review or testing.

    I can pretty much guarantee that wasn't a spotty youth's idea but some massively argued over design feature probably championed by someone at CxO level.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    DougSeal said:

    FF43 said:



    People make mistakes all the time and mostly don't change them, but live with them. We're on a long journey with the Brexit mistake. No-one has learnt how to live with Brexit yet, including Leavers, but eventually I think people will. I don't think it's sustainable to keep pretending Europe doesn't exist and at the same time blame it for everything. At some point there will be some implicit understanding, but it will be pretty much on the EU's terms. It's what it is. Mistakes don't go away because you plough on with them regardless.

    There was a point when damage limitation was possible. We pissed it away on a winner takes all showdown. With Corbyn as our gunslinger.
    My view is that we will eventually embrace damage limitation. Pretending the damage doesn't exist and at the same time complaining about it isn't sustainable IMO.
    You know how people have described the Good Friday Agreement as "Sunningdale for slow learners"? Unless the EU actually breaks up, any UK-EU arrangement is going to be asymmetric, because the will of more people trumps the will of fewer people.

    BoJo has described his ambition as placing the UK outside the lunar pull of the EU. The thing is, gravity doesn't work like that; a distant orbit is still an orbit. And the orbit of a comet (for example) can go from very distant to very close.

    The future is a very long time.
    I think this is all true. But I think for ideological reasons on both sides people haven't been aware of the degree to which Brexit is a mistake given what the makers and movers want to do. They mostly want to be global and connected, mostly buy into an international rules based system, to trade internationally and to have opportunity and influence and to keep the United KIngdom together. We're not members of the EU any more, which was enabling a lot of that, so how are we going to do that from scratch? That path still goes through Europe for us, which means dealing with the EU.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,439
    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511

    Has someone been kidnapped by Dr Who?

    The date measured in that article is from June 23 to June 30.

    COVID cases in England rose by 71% in the week to 30 June compared to the previous seven days, with a total of 135,685 people testing positive, latest Test and Trace figures show.

    Today is July 8th. Sky News = shit in this case.

    And in the week since then the weekly change in cases has fallen from a change of 70% to about 40%.


    Because 30th June is how far the 7-day moving average goes on the "By Sample Date" graph in the UK Dashboards.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    According to Nick there are 2,446 Covid cases in hospital. Not sure if that is UK or England. In
    England we have in total 122k hospital beds and are at a 10yr low* rate of utilisation (81% [83% for general and acute, again a low]).

    * With the exception of Q1 and Q2 this year.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455
    Alistair said:

    OT Deliveroo has an exciting new feature. Today my ticket identifies me as a regular customer with more than five orders. More than 250 by my count. So instead of making me feel like a valued customer, it makes me feel undervalued.

    As with software development, as with politics, as with life, some spotty youth has a brainwave that is adopted and shoved straight into production without consideration, review or testing.

    I can pretty much guarantee that wasn't a spotty youth's idea but some massively argued over design feature probably championed by someone at CxO level.
    But they only ever ran half a dozen orders through it in testing.

    Because if it had had half a million orders ran through, the problem would have been glaringly obvious!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    The mysterious Scottish general-poor-health issue?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172
    edited July 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW The Delta variant is having a good summer - its R rate is 1.87 in the REACT study we run with @ImperialMed — meaning that every 10 people infected with the virus are likely to pass it on to about 18 others… let’s hope this goes ok…
    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1413076027341950976

    Now we have fully vaxxed, partially vaxed and unvaxxed populations, a single R rate isn't that helpful. As proportions of vaxxed groups is ever changing and gulf of difference between 5 year olds getting it and 85 year olds.
    Nope that R figure is fine as it will be on the low side. That figure is the number of known cases that are infecting the next set of known cases.

    And a lot of double vaccinated people may not even notice they have actually got covid, especially as the symptoms of the delta variant often seem to be summer cold like.

    Looking at India I suspect it will spread through most of the population within 6 weeks and then start to burn itself out.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Ever the diplomat:

    Enjoying a delicious cup of Italian coffee at the Il Fornaio Italian cafe on Dawson Street. It’s like Little Italy here

    https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1413124915348316166?s=20
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,272
    Scott_xP said:

    That's true. They've ensured that the best views of the city will all be from their building. Devious.

    The best view of the city is from the window of the office in the castle that was at one time used by the chief electrical engineer for Historic Scotland.

    It looks directly down the Royal Mile.

    You can't see the turd from there
    When you stop noticing it will Scotland have reached Turd Immunity?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    +5,431 cases in the Netherlands.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872
    Alistair said:

    The new building is hideous. But it replaced a building that was vile.

    Mildly controversial opinion, the jobby building might have been ok if they hadn't finished it off with the turd tail - maybe something resembling the prow of a ship or similar? In any case the build quality seems atrocious, there are pics on Twitter which I can’t currently locate showing the copper/metallic plates warping and detaching from their neighbours.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,487

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    Could be there is less immunity due to prior infection in Scotland because of more successful previous lockdowns?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922

    Mildly controversial opinion, the jobby building might have been ok if they hadn't finished it off with the turd tail - maybe something resembling the prow of a ship or similar? In any case the build quality seems atrocious, there are pics on Twitter which I can’t currently locate showing the copper/metallic plates warping and detaching from their neighbours.

    And the shopping centre flooded in the rain last week
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,575
    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    It's the "if you're in it looking out, you can't see it" principle. Of course you'll stay there!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,439
    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    God no.

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Sometimes it is The Malmaison when work are solely paying.

    Apparently I’m at my most snobbish and elitist when it comes to hotels.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172
    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    That's like staying at the Shard, the main advantage / reason for staying there is that you can't see it when you look out the window.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678

    +5,431 cases in the Netherlands.

    [Thinks - is that a lot?]
    [Checks last Thursday's figure: 825]

    Slightly over a six fold increase in a week.

    [Does some hasty Guardian-journo maths]

    In 5 weeks, they'll have over 67 million cases. :wink:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    God no.

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Sometimes it is The Malmaison when work are solely paying.

    Apparently I’m at my most snobbish and elitist when it comes to hotels.
    'North British'. 'Balmoral' is so twee and modern.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    The mysterious Scottish general-poor-health issue?
    When a country's national dish is deep fried haggis / pizza / Mars Bars what do you expect.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Got to be the Caledonian

    Get the wrong room in the Balmoral and your only view would be the turd
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW The Delta variant is having a good summer - its R rate is 1.87 in the REACT study we run with @ImperialMed — meaning that every 10 people infected with the virus are likely to pass it on to about 18 others… let’s hope this goes ok…
    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1413076027341950976

    Now we have fully vaxxed, partially vaxed and unvaxxed populations, a single R rate isn't that helpful. As proportions of vaxxed groups is ever changing and gulf of difference between 5 year olds getting it and 85 year olds.
    Nope that R figure is fine as it will be on the low side. That figure is the number of known cases that are infecting the next set of known cases.

    And a lot of double vaccinated people may not even notice they have actually got covid, especially as the symptoms of the delta variant often seem to be summer cold like.

    Looking at India I suspect it will spread through most of the population within 6 weeks and then start to burn itself out.
    Cases in India are currently down 90% on peak.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    Could be there is less immunity due to prior infection in Scotland because of more successful previous lockdowns?
    Exactly what the CMO (or something) Dr Leitch said the other day.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    The mysterious Scottish general-poor-health issue?
    Actually that's probably it. Scottish healthcare is relatively shoddy in general isn't it?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    God no.

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Sometimes it is The Malmaison when work are solely paying.

    Apparently I’m at my most snobbish and elitist when it comes to hotels.
    'North British'. 'Balmoral' is so twee and modern.
    Balmoral is fine for Afternoon tea. The Kimpton Charlotte Square is now our go to when staying there...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,575
    edited July 2021

    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    God no.

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Sometimes it is The Malmaison when work are solely paying.

    Apparently I’m at my most snobbish and elitist when it comes to hotels.
    I quite like The Glasshouse for work trips. It has a couple of fairly nice suites with good, separate working and living spaces.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    They're not. Ahead of England, at present, and have been for quite some time.

    Though one doesn't want to attach too much importance to the exact figure, given how many Ruritanian windowcleaners are allegedly lurking in the inner shires.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    That's like staying at the Shard, the main advantage / reason for staying there is that you can't see it when you look out the window.
    Nowhere around where I live complains about the view, in fact quite the opposite. I can see the world’s tallest building from my window as I type this...;)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    NEW: Tokyo Olympics to be held without spectators at venues in the Japanese capital, minister confirms - Kyodo
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    The mysterious Scottish general-poor-health issue?
    Actually that's probably it. Scottish healthcare is relatively shoddy in general isn't it?
    Football. The Rangers match and near riot to het that demographic nicely seeded, and then all piling into pubs and coaches for the Euros.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 639

    Leon said:



    Quite. And from that awkward position - in the SM with no say - it might have been easier to persuade the British people to rejoin, it would definitely have been easier to progressively tie us closer to Brussels

    It amazed me at the time that Remainers didn't see this. They kept twisting not sticking

    Couldn't have happened in either the 2015-17 or 2017-19 parliaments.
    Any concrete Brexit had to be able to clear two hurdles;
    1 Win a majority in Parliament as a whole, or it couldn't pass into law.
    2 Win a majority in the Conservative Party, or the PM would be no-confidenced faster than you can say "vassal state".

    Consider the miseries that TM-then-PM went through with her party trying to get her deal through. Whilst that was a bit softer than where we currently are, it's only soft in the way that old-fashioned toilet paper (the stuff that looks like tracing paper) is softer than sandpaper.

    The only other way to make something else happen would have been for a not-Conservative government of uncertain duration to take over. Which would have created all sorts of problems going forward. And besides, that would have either meant PM Corbyn or Corbyn standing aside for AN Other. Public opinion stopped the first, and the vanity of a dim leftie stopped the second.

    Unlocking the Brexit process needed a big Conservative majority so that both hurdles could be crossed in one bound. So they get to implement Brexit they want. That's how it rolls for now. (My hunch is that soft and hard Leavers both planned a cunning double cross- ally with each other to get the concept of Leave across the line, then a quick betrayal to get the form of leaving they actually wanted. And the hard leavers read the landscape better.)

    So I'm not sure that there was a way of stopping this. What, perhaps, could have been done differently was to ensure the responsibility landed unambiguously where it should be.
    It's a big assumption that Remainers automatically prefer a 'soft' to 'hard' Brexit. As other posters have pointed out, there was no upside compared to the then status quo to remaining in the SM but outside the EU - what's the point of being a rule taker? That really would have been the loss of independence that Brexiteers always complained about, and rightly they would have whined incessantly at full volume about it being BRINO.

    So I eventually concluded as a Remainer that the hardest Brexit was the next best option as it was the only one that could possibly be better than the status quo. And if we had gone for a softer option the Brexiteers would have kept banging on until we left properly, so we it was just as well to get it over with. Now, I happen to think it is an almighty mistake - but proving it one way or the other was the only way to resolve the question once and for all.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,439
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    God no.

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Sometimes it is The Malmaison when work are solely paying.

    Apparently I’m at my most snobbish and elitist when it comes to hotels.
    'North British'. 'Balmoral' is so twee and modern.
    Balmoral has fantastic service and staff.

    A few years ago I stayed there for my ex’s birthday and they upgraded us for free and gave us a wonderful experience.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    Really? What are the vaccination rates in Scotland compared to eg England?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887
    edited July 2021
    Alistair said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511

    Has someone been kidnapped by Dr Who?

    The date measured in that article is from June 23 to June 30.

    COVID cases in England rose by 71% in the week to 30 June compared to the previous seven days, with a total of 135,685 people testing positive, latest Test and Trace figures show.

    Today is July 8th. Sky News = shit in this case.

    And in the week since then the weekly change in cases has fallen from a change of 70% to about 40%.


    Because 30th June is how far the 7-day moving average goes on the "By Sample Date" graph in the UK Dashboards.
    Help me here, @Alistair.

    I expect a national news to give me an accurate report, with any nuances and compromises identified.

    Sky in their headline report this in the present tense, despite the extra 2 days to July 2 showing a fall from 71% to 63% in the rate of increase. They also report a "surge" and that the rate of increase is increasing.

    If there is more recent or more nuanced (eg rolling average) data elesewhere, as there is, I expect it to be covered and I expect the line taken to cover both.

    I am also happy to be a little impressionistic myself in a blog comment, compared to say a Header or More or Less.

    Am I being unreasonable?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    God no.

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Sometimes it is The Malmaison when work are solely paying.

    Apparently I’m at my most snobbish and elitist when it comes to hotels.
    'North British'. 'Balmoral' is so twee and modern.
    Balmoral has fantastic service and staff.

    A few years ago I stayed there for my ex’s birthday and they upgraded us for free and gave us a wonderful experience.
    Sorry - my Caledonian irony is not working. It used to be the North British Railway hotel, well into the 1990s IIRC.

    Nothing wrong with the hotel itself!
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