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C&A: The by-election campaign that was totally ignored by the media – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,439
    Scott_xP said:

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Got to be the Caledonian

    Get the wrong room in the Balmoral and your only view would be the turd
    True. I stayed in the Alexander Graham Bell suite a couple of years ago. Room was so huge it was spread across two different postcodes.

    Great view of the castle.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455

    NEW: Tokyo Olympics to be held without spectators at venues in the Japanese capital, minister confirms - Kyodo

    Sad, but inevitable. The whole thing is going to be enough of a total Covid sh!tshow, without crowds of spectators.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,439
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    God no.

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Sometimes it is The Malmaison when work are solely paying.

    Apparently I’m at my most snobbish and elitist when it comes to hotels.
    'North British'. 'Balmoral' is so twee and modern.
    Balmoral has fantastic service and staff.

    A few years ago I stayed there for my ex’s birthday and they upgraded us for free and gave us a wonderful experience.
    Sorry - my Caledonian irony is not working. It used to be the North British Railway hotel, well into the 1990s IIRC.

    Nothing wrong with the hotel itself!
    Ah I get you.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    Sandpit said:

    NEW: Tokyo Olympics to be held without spectators at venues in the Japanese capital, minister confirms - Kyodo

    Sad, but inevitable. The whole thing is going to be enough of a total Covid sh!tshow, without crowds of spectators.
    What's the odds on there being an outbreak in at the athlete village?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,735
    kinabalu said:

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    Raw is great and I'm a bit put out. He calls me "bonkers".
    You are a rare voice of reason, my friend.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455

    Sandpit said:

    NEW: Tokyo Olympics to be held without spectators at venues in the Japanese capital, minister confirms - Kyodo

    Sad, but inevitable. The whole thing is going to be enough of a total Covid sh!tshow, without crowds of spectators.
    What's the odds on there being an outbreak in at the athlete village?
    1.01
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436

    Scott_xP said:

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Got to be the Caledonian

    Get the wrong room in the Balmoral and your only view would be the turd
    True. I stayed in the Alexander Graham Bell suite a couple of years ago. Room was so huge it was spread across two different postcodes.

    Great view of the castle.
    Did you travel station to station?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    Midlife crisis Moron is at it again...

    So inspiring to see brave Naomi continue her self-promotional media tour in which she does yet another magazine cover/interview, in which she criticises the media for not better respecting her privacy.

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1413118208085798918?s=20
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,439

    Scott_xP said:

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Got to be the Caledonian

    Get the wrong room in the Balmoral and your only view would be the turd
    True. I stayed in the Alexander Graham Bell suite a couple of years ago. Room was so huge it was spread across two different postcodes.

    Great view of the castle.
    Did you travel station to station?
    We did.

    I miss Edinburgh.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    The mysterious Scottish general-poor-health issue?
    Actually that's probably it. Scottish healthcare is relatively shoddy in general isn't it?
    I think it's more that people are on average less healthy. Due to any one of diet/climate/nature of employment/lifestyle/genetics/some other mysterious reason.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142

    Midlife crisis Moron is at it again...

    So inspiring to see brave Naomi continue her self-promotional media tour in which she does yet another magazine cover/interview, in which she criticises the media for not better respecting her privacy.

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1413118208085798918?s=20

    Interesting quote:

    “Issues that are so obvious to me at face value, like wearing a mask in a pandemic or kneeling to show support for anti­racism, are ferociously contested. I mean, wow.”

    Masks are just another form virtue signalling.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,188

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

    In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

    Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Alistair said:

    I miss the days when children 100% guaranteed fact cannot catch or pass on Covid.

    Good times.

    Covid19 can be devastating for children and their families. The 10 year old child of a friend got Covid19 and the child had mild symptoms and quickly recovered, as children nearly always do. But then about three weeks later the child became very seriously ill. It was eventually diagnosed as MIS-C (Multisystem inflammatory syndrome - Children), an affliction similar to Kawasaki disease. It is rarely fatal, but is apparently surprisingly common.

    MIS-C is just one of a large numbers of Covid19 associated diseases you really, really don’t want to experience.

    The child is now absolutely fine.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,188
    kinabalu said:

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    Raw is great and I'm a bit put out. He calls me "bonkers".
    Because you are bonkers, genuinely thinking Corbynism is a constructive political creed, and you call those who disagree with you, including me, "reactionary", which you fail to recognise is insulting.

    So, you're bonkers. Not bad on the betting mind.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    But next time you stay in Edinburgh, I bet that’s the place you’ll stay.
    God no.

    The Balmoral or The Caledonian/Waldorf Astoria are my only two choices for staying in Edinburgh.

    Sometimes it is The Malmaison when work are solely paying.

    Apparently I’m at my most snobbish and elitist when it comes to hotels.
    'North British'. 'Balmoral' is so twee and modern.
    Balmoral has fantastic service and staff.

    A few years ago I stayed there for my ex’s birthday and they upgraded us for free and gave us a wonderful experience.
    Sorry - my Caledonian irony is not working. It used to be the North British Railway hotel, well into the 1990s IIRC.

    Nothing wrong with the hotel itself!
    I’m pretty sure it was still called that when I took a train to Edinburgh in 1998, around the time of the devolution referendum IIRC, because I remember seeing the big sign thinking “I bet that gets renamed soon”.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    TOPPING said:

    wrt the debate about Johnson's X-factor and @Casino, @Nigel, and others' point about why people follow/like/vote for him.

    Interesting snippet from 30 seconds in to around 1m10s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5gcdSxjV34&list=PL3CCBF5A57052F05B&index=2

    Johnson is the most fitting PM I could imagine to lead post-Brexit Britain.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.

    My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth

    It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline

    I long for the classic beauty of the building it replaced. Truly the worst form of vandalism

    The new thing is actually worse than that. Amazingly
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,707

    Midlife crisis Moron is at it again...

    So inspiring to see brave Naomi continue her self-promotional media tour in which she does yet another magazine cover/interview, in which she criticises the media for not better respecting her privacy.

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1413118208085798918?s=20

    Shades of the Daily Star's "publicity shy bloke" Prince Harry. Are our sympathies divided?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021

    Midlife crisis Moron is at it again...

    So inspiring to see brave Naomi continue her self-promotional media tour in which she does yet another magazine cover/interview, in which she criticises the media for not better respecting her privacy.

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1413118208085798918?s=20

    Shades of the Daily Star's "publicity shy bloke" Prince Harry. Are our sympathies divided?
    He does sort of have a point. But he is literally going out every day looking to cause a twitter fight. As I said the other day, Fox, Lineker, him, all seem to spend their days looking to post things on twitter that will get loads of "engagement".

    I am sure it is a new form of midlife crisis coping, rather than the motorbike or the penis extension sports car, or ditching your wife for a younger lady....now its ohhh I got 10k likes....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    Bloody hell Scott....posting a tweet linking to the middle east eye. The website that pushes the agenda that antisemitism wasn't really a big problem in the Labour party under Corbyn, that isolated incidents were just weaponised against Corbyn.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,169
    MattW said:

    Alistair said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511

    Has someone been kidnapped by Dr Who?

    The date measured in that article is from June 23 to June 30.

    COVID cases in England rose by 71% in the week to 30 June compared to the previous seven days, with a total of 135,685 people testing positive, latest Test and Trace figures show.

    Today is July 8th. Sky News = shit in this case.

    And in the week since then the weekly change in cases has fallen from a change of 70% to about 40%.


    Because 30th June is how far the 7-day moving average goes on the "By Sample Date" graph in the UK Dashboards.
    Help me here, @Alistair.

    I expect a national news to give me an accurate report, with any nuances and compromises identified.

    Sky in their headline report this in the present tense, despite the extra 2 days to July 2 showing a fall from 71% to 63% in the rate of increase. They also report a "surge" and that the rate of increase is increasing.

    If there is more recent or more nuanced (eg rolling average) data elesewhere, as there is, I expect it to be covered and I expect the line taken to cover both.

    I am also happy to be a little impressionistic myself in a blog comment, compared to say a Header or More or Less.

    Am I being unreasonable?
    Talking of accuracy, that graph doesn't look right to me. It's showing Germany as having a what 18% increase in the last 7 days compared to the previous seven days.

    but check here:
    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Fallzahlen.html
    Latest total cases 3733519 (8/7/21)
    7 days earlier: 3729033 (1/7/21) 4486 cases in the latest week
    7 days before that: 3724806 (24/6/21) 4227 cases the week before

    I make that about 6% increase?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.

    My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth

    It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline

    I long for the classic beauty of the building it replaced. Truly the worst form of vandalism

    The new thing is actually worse than that. Amazingly
    I was in the centre recently and was quite impressed. It is light, the brownstone fits in well with the stone on the paths to Harvey Nicks, etc. It was also very busy with queues outside almost every shop.

    There are a couple of problems. Firstly, it is open at both ends and this resulted in rainwater pouring into the centre and down to the basement. It clearly needs a large scale drain to prevent that.

    Secondly, the centre has lifted a lot of the main shops out of Princes Street which is in serious danger of becoming a collection of tourist tat shops. It has to be doubtful if Edinburgh has enough shopping for the centre, George Street and Princes Street. More cafes and restaurants are a fairly partial solution.

    Edit, of course one of the major attractions of the centre is that you cannot see the turd from inside.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

    In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

    Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.
    I assume that that post is satirical
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

    In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

    Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.
    I remember in a lunch room discussion, years ago, a lady of vociferous political views stating that "she didn't know any Tories, let alone be friends with any",

    Perhaps unwisely, several people then mentioned their political allegiances. She was almost... terrified is the wrong word. But definitely her world shifted on its foundations a bit.

    THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,707
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    From that link:-
    On the one hand the prime minister (who privately takes little or no interest in football) is opportunistically determined to milk every last ounce of political advantage as a series of carefully posed photographs of him wearing a football shirt with the number 10 emblazoned on it demonstrate.

    On the other, Southgate’s thoughtful, well-mannered football team have come to embody a vision of a multi-cultural, inclusive Britain which Johnson is determined to obliterate. Gary Neville, a former England football star, pinpointed the difference between the two men when he called Southgate "respectful, humble, tells the truth, everything a leader should be".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    From that link:-
    On the one hand the prime minister (who privately takes little or no interest in football) is opportunistically determined to milk every last ounce of political advantage as a series of carefully posed photographs of him wearing a football shirt with the number 10 emblazoned on it demonstrate.

    On the other, Southgate’s thoughtful, well-mannered football team have come to embody a vision of a multi-cultural, inclusive Britain which Johnson is determined to obliterate. Gary Neville, a former England football star, pinpointed the difference between the two men when he called Southgate "respectful, humble, tells the truth, everything a leader should be".
    No comment from them on Starmer wearing a shirt?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887
    kamski said:

    MattW said:

    Alistair said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Weekly COVID cases rise by 71% to highest level since early February, latest figures show
    http://news.sky.com/story/weekly-covid-cases-rise-by-71to-highest-level-since-early-february-latest-figures-show-12351511

    Has someone been kidnapped by Dr Who?

    The date measured in that article is from June 23 to June 30.

    COVID cases in England rose by 71% in the week to 30 June compared to the previous seven days, with a total of 135,685 people testing positive, latest Test and Trace figures show.

    Today is July 8th. Sky News = shit in this case.

    And in the week since then the weekly change in cases has fallen from a change of 70% to about 40%.


    Because 30th June is how far the 7-day moving average goes on the "By Sample Date" graph in the UK Dashboards.
    Help me here, @Alistair.

    I expect a national news to give me an accurate report, with any nuances and compromises identified.

    Sky in their headline report this in the present tense, despite the extra 2 days to July 2 showing a fall from 71% to 63% in the rate of increase. They also report a "surge" and that the rate of increase is increasing.

    If there is more recent or more nuanced (eg rolling average) data elesewhere, as there is, I expect it to be covered and I expect the line taken to cover both.

    I am also happy to be a little impressionistic myself in a blog comment, compared to say a Header or More or Less.

    Am I being unreasonable?
    Talking of accuracy, that graph doesn't look right to me. It's showing Germany as having a what 18% increase in the last 7 days compared to the previous seven days.

    but check here:
    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Fallzahlen.html
    Latest total cases 3733519 (8/7/21)
    7 days earlier: 3729033 (1/7/21) 4486 cases in the latest week
    7 days before that: 3724806 (24/6/21) 4227 cases the week before

    I make that about 6% increase?

    Equally good questions.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,707

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    Bloody hell Scott....posting a tweet linking to the middle east eye. The website that pushes the agenda that antisemitism wasn't really a big problem in the Labour party under Corbyn, that isolated incidents were just weaponised against Corbyn.
    Has Peter Oborne burned his bridges with the Telegraph and Spectator by calling out Boris?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    From that link:-
    On the one hand the prime minister (who privately takes little or no interest in football) is opportunistically determined to milk every last ounce of political advantage as a series of carefully posed photographs of him wearing a football shirt with the number 10 emblazoned on it demonstrate.

    On the other, Southgate’s thoughtful, well-mannered football team have come to embody a vision of a multi-cultural, inclusive Britain which Johnson is determined to obliterate. Gary Neville, a former England football star, pinpointed the difference between the two men when he called Southgate "respectful, humble, tells the truth, everything a leader should be".
    PM wears football shirt going to the football.....with his name and number 10 on the back, just like there are umpteen photos of Blair doing. Its totally unremarkable.

    Gary Neville political rant was sad really, totally the wrong moment to insert it. He is entitled to his personal opinion (and I personally think leadership has been very poor), but to make it about politics a minute after the final whistle was really pathetic and unnecessary. Enjoy the excitement and achievement, say Southgate has done well as the manager, and leave it at that.

    He has a big enough platform to make as many political statements as he likes at anytime.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    “There’s an emptiness to it, though.” Governments always reflect the character of their leaders. The central truth about Johnson’s government is that it doesn’t have a governing purpose beyond the greater glory of Boris Johnson.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-boris-johnson-needs-friends-hell-be-alone-rcdz9q60l?shareToken=1cb0c86bc838d6abdc5761deac5add8c
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Scott_xP said:

    “There’s an emptiness to it, though.” Governments always reflect the character of their leaders. The central truth about Johnson’s government is that it doesn’t have a governing purpose beyond the greater glory of Boris Johnson.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-boris-johnson-needs-friends-hell-be-alone-rcdz9q60l?shareToken=1cb0c86bc838d6abdc5761deac5add8c

    I get the impression you’re not the PM’s biggest fan?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    DougSeal said:

    I get the impression you’re not the PM’s biggest fan?

    BoZo's biggest fan is BoZo
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,707
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    From that link:-
    On the one hand the prime minister (who privately takes little or no interest in football) is opportunistically determined to milk every last ounce of political advantage as a series of carefully posed photographs of him wearing a football shirt with the number 10 emblazoned on it demonstrate.

    On the other, Southgate’s thoughtful, well-mannered football team have come to embody a vision of a multi-cultural, inclusive Britain which Johnson is determined to obliterate. Gary Neville, a former England football star, pinpointed the difference between the two men when he called Southgate "respectful, humble, tells the truth, everything a leader should be".
    No comment from them on Starmer wearing a shirt?
    From whom? Peter Oborne wrote it. And Starmer is an Arsenal season ticket holder (as is Jeremy Corbyn, coincidentally).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    Scott_xP said:

    “There’s an emptiness to it, though.” Governments always reflect the character of their leaders. The central truth about Johnson’s government is that it doesn’t have a governing purpose beyond the greater glory of Boris Johnson.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/when-boris-johnson-needs-friends-hell-be-alone-rcdz9q60l?shareToken=1cb0c86bc838d6abdc5761deac5add8c

    "Sailing under a flag of convenience" is a good line.
    There are no Johnsonites, because there is no Johnsonism.
    And there are no staunch allies, because he isn't clubbable.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Scott_xP said:

    DougSeal said:

    I get the impression you’re not the PM’s biggest fan?

    BoZo's biggest fan is BoZo
    Second biggest?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021
    Floater said:
    Nailed him....

    "His whole pandemic schtick has been an act, a pantomime for the viewers. After his Antigua jolly we all know he screams for the restrictions that should apply to just you, not him."

    Same as he was well my son broke the rules, but it was for a good cause, so that's ok, I support him...and then his son broke the rules, to go on holiday with them....erhhh...quickly moving on. And he was giving it some BS about not being able to hug family members....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.

    My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth

    It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline

    I long for the classic beauty of the building it replaced. Truly the worst form of vandalism

    The new thing is actually worse than that. Amazingly
    That's its good side.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Hospitals in England may be in the same position, according to this article.

    https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/1412742990456659969

    Cancer surgeries cancelled at one of England’s largest hospitals as NHS summer crisis deepens. Senior doctors warn of rising Covid admissions and A&E department overwhelmed at Leeds Teaching Hospitals Trust
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,169
    OllyT said:

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

    In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

    Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.
    I assume that that post is satirical
    Not necessarily. A lot of us are much less arsey in real life than on places like here.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    Re Header, @MikeSmithson : It's just not happening for the LDs. It COULD happen, I'll give you that, but not actually doing so. The obvious reason is that they have little in the way of policy and nothing in the way of politicians.

    Currently the LDs quite astonishingly have far more territory than forces to occupy them.



  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    From that link:-
    On the one hand the prime minister (who privately takes little or no interest in football) is opportunistically determined to milk every last ounce of political advantage as a series of carefully posed photographs of him wearing a football shirt with the number 10 emblazoned on it demonstrate.

    On the other, Southgate’s thoughtful, well-mannered football team have come to embody a vision of a multi-cultural, inclusive Britain which Johnson is determined to obliterate. Gary Neville, a former England football star, pinpointed the difference between the two men when he called Southgate "respectful, humble, tells the truth, everything a leader should be".
    No comment from them on Starmer wearing a shirt?
    From whom? Peter Oborne wrote it. And Starmer is an Arsenal season ticket holder (as is Jeremy Corbyn, coincidentally).
    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan or even trying to come up with some make believe team like West Aston Ham Villa....there are loads of normal people who don't really watch that much, but do watch the world cup or the euros, same as we will all be watching clay pigeon shooting or fencing in the Olympics, cheering on some plucky Brit, when we absolutely won't be travelling to Grimsby on a cold wet February weekend to watch the same people do their shooting competitions.

    I think if Boris wasn't doing a few tweets saying "Come on England" or didn't go to the big match as is completely normal for the leader of a country to do, people would say look out of touch he is, he doesn't want to go and sit with the common folk watching their silly common game.

    There is loads of criticise Boris over, but he really isn't doing anything different from what is the expected norm for the leader of the country when they get through to the big games in a big tournament.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
    Federalism could still work. The elephant in the room with the current settlement is the lack of an English parliament. As with God Save the Queen the view is that the national parliament is also the English parliament (because the nation is England anyway).

    Create 4 fully functional parliaments with maximum possible devolution, widen out the role of Westminster so that it more for national defence and strategic planning, and the UK might hold together.

    Sadly there is little chance of it. The UK in its current form is unsustainable. NI has already been cast off to the status of a semi-detached colony. Scotland is being told that democracy is dead in Scotland because the views of England overrule it. Wales is enjoying its growing powers and wanting to do things differently. England either doesn't care much or just wants the moaning to stop.

    We're going to break apart regardless of how nostalgically sad that makes people feel. Once Brexit plays out for a few more years and we can see if England will come to its senses and actually want free trade partners then we can shape the form of the divorce.
    The lack of an English parliament has been “the elephant in the room” for my entire adult life. It is one hell of an inconspicuous pachyderm.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    One thing about the football is it has drowned out the 'stop freedom' media offensive by the Christina Pagel massive and others.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663
    I wonder why the case growth rate has suddenly slowed down, I'd have expected it to pick up after the Saturday football match feeding through into the figures by now. PCR positives now growing at about 16% WoW.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    UK Covid dashboard...."8 July 2021 — New option to see charts in logarithmic scale"

    Only taken a 15 months.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    The rate of increase in cases U.K. wide has dropped back to 34% after getting up to 70% ish last week. Maybe the light at the end of the tunnel ain’t a train. The decrease in week on week case numbers in Scotland is remarkable.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    DougSeal said:

    The rate of increase in cases U.K. wide has dropped back to 34% after getting up to 70% ish last week. Maybe the light at the end of the tunnel ain’t a train. The decrease in week on week case numbers in Scotland is remarkable.

    Its like vaccines work or something....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922

    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan

    Big shout out to everyone who couldn't watch the match last night because they had to be ready to take pictures of the politician they work for reacting to a goal.
    https://twitter.com/mrchrisaddison/status/1413033158417788931
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727

    A good day to bury news.

    ‘Why is the government planning to scrap English Votes for English Laws?’

    Johnson’s neo-unionism reflects a British imaginary that sees devolved government and calls to provide some form of English-level recognition as sources of fragmentation, and resiles from the idea that the UK is a voluntary union of self-determining peoples. In taking this line his administration has triggered an increasingly open conflict with the pro-devolution unionist position, which was, until recently, the prevalent view in both Whitehall and Westminster.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2021/07/why-government-planning-scrap-english-votes-english-laws

    One can, of course, advance a perfectly legitimate argument that devolution has been catastrophic for the Union, but a response that consists, essentially, of leaving it untouched where it already exists whilst failing to implement equivalence where it does not is the worst of all worlds. The only stable configurations for the UK are a federation or a unitary state, not the dog's breakfast that the idiot Blair bequeathed us.

    Of course, Boris Johnson is a lucky general. If the British state does finally founder, it'll almost certainly be on someone else's watch.
    If they wanted a unitary state they should have done it shortly after 1707. Yes, they successfully tricked the Scots nobility with English gold and juicy terms in the Treaty of Union, but they should have reneged on the lot in the first 10 years and effectively have imposed a unitary dictatorship on the whole island. By now GB would be as uniform as, say, Italy, Germany or France.

    The key error was allowing the College of Justice to continue to exist. And the Kirk.

    But far too late now.

    (I laugh when folk blame Blair. They obviously know zilch about the mood at the time. Blair was painted into a corner, and boy did he know it.)

    (As for “federation”: that’s the biggest yawn fest of Scottish politics. Gordon Brown’s neverending whine.)
    Federalism could still work. The elephant in the room with the current settlement is the lack of an English parliament. As with God Save the Queen the view is that the national parliament is also the English parliament (because the nation is England anyway).

    Create 4 fully functional parliaments with maximum possible devolution, widen out the role of Westminster so that it more for national defence and strategic planning, and the UK might hold together.

    Sadly there is little chance of it. The UK in its current form is unsustainable. NI has already been cast off to the status of a semi-detached colony. Scotland is being told that democracy is dead in Scotland because the views of England overrule it. Wales is enjoying its growing powers and wanting to do things differently. England either doesn't care much or just wants the moaning to stop.

    We're going to break apart regardless of how nostalgically sad that makes people feel. Once Brexit plays out for a few more years and we can see if England will come to its senses and actually want free trade partners then we can shape the form of the divorce.
    The lack of an English parliament has been “the elephant in the room” for my entire adult life. It is one hell of an inconspicuous pachyderm.
    Just curious, but at what point in your life did you decide that Scotland needed a separate government/parliament?

    The main reason that there isn't an English parliament is of course that most English people really see the UK as their nation, and only see the distinction when it comes to sport - and then only for fun.

    England gave up being England long ago.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663
    edited July 2021
    DougSeal said:

    The rate of increase in cases U.K. wide has dropped back to 34% after getting up to 70% ish last week. Maybe the light at the end of the tunnel ain’t a train. The decrease in week on week case numbers in Scotland is remarkable.

    Which is an 18 day doubling period compared to the models using 9 days. It makes a massive difference.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan

    Big shout out to everyone who couldn't watch the match last night because they had to be ready to take pictures of the politician they work for reacting to a goal.
    https://twitter.com/mrchrisaddison/status/1413033158417788931
    Pathetic.....every politician does exactly this, it is totally unremarkable. And again not claiming that they are down there every Saturday watching North West Counties league footy, just that they are watching the big match that literally 60-70% of everybody else in England is watching.

    My elderly mum little interest in footy, she watched the match last night and really enjoyed it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663

    DougSeal said:

    The rate of increase in cases U.K. wide has dropped back to 34% after getting up to 70% ish last week. Maybe the light at the end of the tunnel ain’t a train. The decrease in week on week case numbers in Scotland is remarkable.

    Its like vaccines work or something....
    It does seem as though the virus is running into too many unviable hosts to really break out of control for an R of 3-4 as it should in these conditions of loads of indoor socialising and a big super-spreader event on with the football getting people shouting and screaming together in pubs and front rooms all over the country.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HT @BNODesk

    NEW: Netherlands reports 5,475 new coronavirus cases, an increase of 548% from last week

    You can delay Delta, and Johnson could have done, but it’s coming to a venue near you soon whatever you do.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    The AI Wolf That Preferred Suicide Over Eating Sheep
    A private musing over an AI experiment gone wrong unexpectedly sparked off a culture and ethics debate in China.
    https://onezero.medium.com/the-ai-wolf-that-preferred-suicide-over-eating-sheep-49edced3c710
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited July 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan

    Big shout out to everyone who couldn't watch the match last night because they had to be ready to take pictures of the politician they work for reacting to a goal.
    https://twitter.com/mrchrisaddison/status/1413033158417788931
    And how would they prepare to do that, except by watching the match with the politician?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    UK Covid dashboard...."8 July 2021 — New option to see charts in logarithmic scale"

    Only taken a 15 months.

    TBF most of the population has only recently learned/remembered what a log scale is.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,169

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan

    Big shout out to everyone who couldn't watch the match last night because they had to be ready to take pictures of the politician they work for reacting to a goal.
    https://twitter.com/mrchrisaddison/status/1413033158417788931
    Pathetic.....every politician does exactly this, it is totally unremarkable.
    Yes, and nobody ever made jokes about the Prime Minister before.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    There's going to be an issue with herd immunity via infection with kids

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1413152288579850252

    When kids start catching it twice the Gov't might twig.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663
    DougSeal said:

    HT @BNODesk

    NEW: Netherlands reports 5,475 new coronavirus cases, an increase of 548% from last week

    You can delay Delta, and Johnson could have done, but it’s coming to a venue near you soon whatever you do.

    Yeah which is why most countries have to take the same risk we have with taking away restrictions. An exit wave is inevitable with delta, better to have it now when respiratory viruses have less of an advantage in the summer than later in the year when they have a huge one.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan

    Big shout out to everyone who couldn't watch the match last night because they had to be ready to take pictures of the politician they work for reacting to a goal.
    https://twitter.com/mrchrisaddison/status/1413033158417788931
    You are coming across as obsessed ...........
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021
    DougSeal said:

    HT @BNODesk

    NEW: Netherlands reports 5,475 new coronavirus cases, an increase of 548% from last week

    You can delay Delta, and Johnson could have done, but it’s coming to a venue near you soon whatever you do.

    First rule of COVID...you have two choices, try to keep it out by living like a prison state for eternity or it is only a matter of how long you delay it.

    Second rule of COVID.....you only know you might have a problem, when you have a problem.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    Pulpstar said:

    There's going to be an issue with herd immunity via infection with kids

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1413152288579850252

    When kids start catching it twice the Gov't might twig.

    Is that how it works? I thought you kept it until you developed antibodies against it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    From that link:-
    On the one hand the prime minister (who privately takes little or no interest in football) is opportunistically determined to milk every last ounce of political advantage as a series of carefully posed photographs of him wearing a football shirt with the number 10 emblazoned on it demonstrate.

    On the other, Southgate’s thoughtful, well-mannered football team have come to embody a vision of a multi-cultural, inclusive Britain which Johnson is determined to obliterate. Gary Neville, a former England football star, pinpointed the difference between the two men when he called Southgate "respectful, humble, tells the truth, everything a leader should be".
    No comment from them on Starmer wearing a shirt?
    From whom? Peter Oborne wrote it. And Starmer is an Arsenal season ticket holder (as is Jeremy Corbyn, coincidentally).
    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan or even trying to come up with some make believe team like West Aston Ham Villa....there are loads of normal people who don't really watch that much, but do watch the world cup or the euros, same as we will all be watching clay pigeon shooting or fencing in the Olympics, cheering on some plucky Brit, when we absolutely won't be travelling to Grimsby on a cold wet February weekend to watch the same people do their shooting competitions.

    I think if Boris wasn't doing a few tweets saying "Come on England" or didn't go to the big match as is completely normal for the leader of a country to do, people would say look out of touch he is, he doesn't want to go and sit with the common folk watching their silly common game.

    There is loads of criticise Boris over, but he really isn't doing anything different from what is the expected norm for the leader of the country when they get through to the big games in a big tournament.
    IIRC the belief that politicians had to be public football fans started with New Labour. Under Maggie, the Sports Minister would say something, but with Blair, everyone was desperately trying to prove they were more of a fan.

    Again, IIRC, this ended up with an car-crash interview by Peter Mandelson, who managed to prove that he knew absolutely nothing about football, while claiming to be a life long fan.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited July 2021
    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan

    Big shout out to everyone who couldn't watch the match last night because they had to be ready to take pictures of the politician they work for reacting to a goal.
    https://twitter.com/mrchrisaddison/status/1413033158417788931
    Pathetic.....every politician does exactly this, it is totally unremarkable.
    Yes, and nobody ever made jokes about the Prime Minister before.
    Scott n Paste is just become a weird obsessive.....literally the PM wearing an England shirt triggered him.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    HT @BNODesk

    NEW: Netherlands reports 5,475 new coronavirus cases, an increase of 548% from last week

    You can delay Delta, and Johnson could have done, but it’s coming to a venue near you soon whatever you do.

    Yeah which is why most countries have to take the same risk we have with taking away restrictions. An exit wave is inevitable with delta, better to have it now when respiratory viruses have less of an advantage in the summer than later in the year when they have a huge one.
    I’m sure those on Twitter posting the graph of our recent wave in comparison to our neighbours will update their followers soon.
  • That 💩 building shows Scotland isn’t ready to be an independent country.

    Not Reilly. The old high School on Carlton Hill being put out for tender again by the city council, rather than simply accepting the St Mary’s Music School proposal shows that we need to ask whose side the councillors are on
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    There's going to be an issue with herd immunity via infection with kids

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1413152288579850252

    When kids start catching it twice the Gov't might twig.

    Is that how it works? I thought you kept it until you developed antibodies against it.
    Yeah double delta specifically is probably unlikely within the likely timescale of the pandemic peak/trough - Looks like prior infection doesn't provide the same level of protection that vaccination does though..
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    edited July 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    There's going to be an issue with herd immunity via infection with kids

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1413152288579850252

    When kids start catching it twice the Gov't might twig.

    Is that how it works? I thought you kept it until you developed antibodies against it.
    Yeah double delta specifically is probably unlikely within the likely timescale of the pandemic peak/trough - Looks like prior infection doesn't provide the same level of protection that vaccination does though..
    Ah, gotcha. I thought you meant getting delta twice, rather than vanilla/alpha+delta.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    From that link:-
    On the one hand the prime minister (who privately takes little or no interest in football) is opportunistically determined to milk every last ounce of political advantage as a series of carefully posed photographs of him wearing a football shirt with the number 10 emblazoned on it demonstrate.

    On the other, Southgate’s thoughtful, well-mannered football team have come to embody a vision of a multi-cultural, inclusive Britain which Johnson is determined to obliterate. Gary Neville, a former England football star, pinpointed the difference between the two men when he called Southgate "respectful, humble, tells the truth, everything a leader should be".
    No comment from them on Starmer wearing a shirt?
    From whom? Peter Oborne wrote it. And Starmer is an Arsenal season ticket holder (as is Jeremy Corbyn, coincidentally).
    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan or even trying to come up with some make believe team like West Aston Ham Villa....there are loads of normal people who don't really watch that much, but do watch the world cup or the euros, same as we will all be watching clay pigeon shooting or fencing in the Olympics, cheering on some plucky Brit, when we absolutely won't be travelling to Grimsby on a cold wet February weekend to watch the same people do their shooting competitions.

    I think if Boris wasn't doing a few tweets saying "Come on England" or didn't go to the big match as is completely normal for the leader of a country to do, people would say look out of touch he is, he doesn't want to go and sit with the common folk watching their silly common game.

    There is loads of criticise Boris over, but he really isn't doing anything different from what is the expected norm for the leader of the country when they get through to the big games in a big tournament.
    IIRC the belief that politicians had to be public football fans started with New Labour. Under Maggie, the Sports Minister would say something, but with Blair, everyone was desperately trying to prove they were more of a fan.

    Again, IIRC, this ended up with an car-crash interview by Peter Mandelson, who managed to prove that he knew absolutely nothing about football, while claiming to be a life long fan.
    It was an Ali Campbell bit of spin to make the Tories look alien to Mondeo Man who subscribed to Sky to watch football.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    kamski said:

    OllyT said:

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

    In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

    Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.
    I assume that that post is satirical
    Not necessarily. A lot of us are much less arsey in real life than on places like here.
    Possibly but I very much doubt it in the case in question.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.

    By 3 weeks.

    At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.
    Given the black status of various hospitals up here it is hardly surprising that she doesn't want to copy England's let it rip policy quite so quickly.
    To which we need to know why are hospitals in a far worse position North of the Border compared to South of the Border.
    Because they're behind in vaccinations?

    Though I didn't think they were that far behind.
    The mysterious Scottish general-poor-health issue?
    Actually that's probably it. Scottish healthcare is relatively shoddy in general isn't it?
    I think it's more that people are on average less healthy. Due to any one of diet/climate/nature of employment/lifestyle/genetics/some other mysterious reason.
    Football. The sex bias in the current wave in Scotland is astounding for the under 40s. .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    edited July 2021

    Sandpit said:

    NEW: Tokyo Olympics to be held without spectators at venues in the Japanese capital, minister confirms - Kyodo

    Sad, but inevitable. The whole thing is going to be enough of a total Covid sh!tshow, without crowds of spectators.
    What's the odds on there being an outbreak in at the athlete village?
    The British, Israeli and the US athletes that want it will be mostly vaccinated, the rest - err - not so much. Even without spectators the olympics is a huge operation and I've heard of a distinct lack of social distancing normally goes on in athletes villages.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has opportunistically milked the success of the England football team to advance his political project. Will Southgate's players continue to allow themselves to be an appendage for Johnson's ambition? My new column for Middle east Eye:
    https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1413144119145156611

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/england-euro-2020-southgate-boris-johnson-battle-two-britains

    From that link:-
    On the one hand the prime minister (who privately takes little or no interest in football) is opportunistically determined to milk every last ounce of political advantage as a series of carefully posed photographs of him wearing a football shirt with the number 10 emblazoned on it demonstrate.

    On the other, Southgate’s thoughtful, well-mannered football team have come to embody a vision of a multi-cultural, inclusive Britain which Johnson is determined to obliterate. Gary Neville, a former England football star, pinpointed the difference between the two men when he called Southgate "respectful, humble, tells the truth, everything a leader should be".
    No comment from them on Starmer wearing a shirt?
    From whom? Peter Oborne wrote it. And Starmer is an Arsenal season ticket holder (as is Jeremy Corbyn, coincidentally).
    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan or even trying to come up with some make believe team like West Aston Ham Villa....there are loads of normal people who don't really watch that much, but do watch the world cup or the euros, same as we will all be watching clay pigeon shooting or fencing in the Olympics, cheering on some plucky Brit, when we absolutely won't be travelling to Grimsby on a cold wet February weekend to watch the same people do their shooting competitions.

    I think if Boris wasn't doing a few tweets saying "Come on England" or didn't go to the big match as is completely normal for the leader of a country to do, people would say look out of touch he is, he doesn't want to go and sit with the common folk watching their silly common game.

    There is loads of criticise Boris over, but he really isn't doing anything different from what is the expected norm for the leader of the country when they get through to the big games in a big tournament.
    IIRC the belief that politicians had to be public football fans started with New Labour. Under Maggie, the Sports Minister would say something, but with Blair, everyone was desperately trying to prove they were more of a fan.

    Again, IIRC, this ended up with an car-crash interview by Peter Mandelson, who managed to prove that he knew absolutely nothing about football, while claiming to be a life long fan.
    It was an Ali Campbell bit of spin to make the Tories look alien to Mondeo Man who subscribed to Sky to watch football.
    Yes - it was just the way that Mandelbrot looked in the interview stayed with me. It was the picture of the brilliant guy, who'd read the briefing notes, not understood any of them, then sent out to be torn to pieces....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172

    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris isn't trying to pretend he is the world's biggest footy fan

    Big shout out to everyone who couldn't watch the match last night because they had to be ready to take pictures of the politician they work for reacting to a goal.
    https://twitter.com/mrchrisaddison/status/1413033158417788931
    Pathetic.....every politician does exactly this, it is totally unremarkable.
    Yes, and nobody ever made jokes about the Prime Minister before.
    Scott n Paste is just become a weird obsessive.....literally the PM wearing an England shirt triggered him.
    Boris was wearing the England top with a Sports Jacket. It made him look even scruffier than Boris tries to look.

    The sane options are to wear either an England top (and nothing oh top of it) or a proper shirt and jacket as Prince William did.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,735

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    I missed this earlier. I've worked with people just like you who have prejudiced views to those not on their side of the political spectrum, and are unable to see the other's point of view - preferring to stereotype and hurl insults instead.

    In all cases, I was professional and polite with them but avoided talking politics with them and close relationships with them more generally. I think the rest of your post bares this out.

    Everyone will have detected this about you and those who agree with you on some issues (like Brexit and Boris) will share it with you to build some sort of rapport, and those who don't will avoid you or keep their mouth shut.
    I genuinely don't recognise myself in your description. For one thing, I think you are confusing how people communicate in online forums devoted to vigorous political debate, shorn of the subtleties of in-person human interaction, and how they interact in real life. I think there's a fair amount of projection going on, too, since you are probably one of the most abrasive and thin-skinned people on this site. I recall, for instance, the time you abused my parents and my dead grandparents, solely on the basis of their political views, and ignored completely my request for an apology. Prejudiced, hurling insults, yes; polite and professional, no.
    I have enjoyed friendships with people across the political spectrum, who knows perhaps IRL we could find common ground, if you could drop the permanent outrage act for just a second.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821


    Yes - it was just the way that Mandelbrot looked in the interview stayed with me. It was the picture of the brilliant guy, who'd read the briefing notes, not understood any of them, then sent out to be torn to pieces....

    I don't think I saw that - it must have been absolutely hilarious. In fact, the very concept of Peter Mandelson having any more interest in football than I do is hilarious.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,169
    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    HT @BNODesk

    NEW: Netherlands reports 5,475 new coronavirus cases, an increase of 548% from last week

    You can delay Delta, and Johnson could have done, but it’s coming to a venue near you soon whatever you do.

    Yeah which is why most countries have to take the same risk we have with taking away restrictions. An exit wave is inevitable with delta, better to have it now when respiratory viruses have less of an advantage in the summer than later in the year when they have a huge one.
    Balanced against waiting til more people are vaccinated. And the feeling that once restrictions are gone people aren't going to put up with them coming back.

    So far, taking it on the chin now to try and manage some potential future wave has always proven to be a mistake I think, so I can understand why some people are reluctant to get rid of all restrictions.

    And it's a bit worrying to have very high case numbers where most people are vaccinated, because that might create some pressure for a properly vaccine resistant variant to turn up. Maybe there's good reasons why that won't happen. But so far, from my naive point of view, the variants have surprised us on the downside.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    UK cases by specimen data scald to 100K

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    England PCR positivity

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  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Nigelb said:

    The AI Wolf That Preferred Suicide Over Eating Sheep
    A private musing over an AI experiment gone wrong unexpectedly sparked off a culture and ethics debate in China.
    https://onezero.medium.com/the-ai-wolf-that-preferred-suicide-over-eating-sheep-49edced3c710

    It sounds like a variation on the "AI Stop button" problem
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    UK case summary

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    UK hospitals

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    UK deaths

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    UK R

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678
    Cookie said:
    In fact, I don't actually believe the figures above. Watch what happens once masks are no longer mandated. My guess is within a week use will drop to < 20%. This is a classic case of 'there should be rules for other people'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    Age related data

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    edited July 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.

    Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.
    I talk to everyone at work. I think it's probably more down to the kind of Tories I meet. I don't encounter Tories outside of work, because they don't really live in my neighbourhood or have kids at local schools and I didn't make friends with any at university and I grew up in Scotland where Tories are a protected species. Tories in my field of work, which is the only place I encounter them apart from on here, tend towards the free maket/pro EU/socially liberal wing so mostly hate the current incarnation of the party.
    I've never had my political views described as raw before, I'll take that, it's better than half baked or overcooked I suppose!
    Raw is great and I'm a bit put out. He calls me "bonkers".
    Because you are bonkers, genuinely thinking Corbynism is a constructive political creed, and you call those who disagree with you, including me, "reactionary", which you fail to recognise is insulting.

    So, you're bonkers. Not bad on the betting mind.
    Reactionary isn't an insult. Reactionary Reductive is my term of denigration albeit often used in almost affectionate way. And you, as I've made clear before, are NOT one of those.

    How to distinguish an RR from a vanilla R? An RR will respond to (say) me arguing for (say) higher taxes with the following:

    "Why don't you just write a cheque yourself to HMRC for the extra amount you think you should pay? But you won't do that, will you? So you're a typical leftist hypocrite."

    This sort of thing.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,661
    Cookie said:
    Some of it has to be trolling. I hope.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    Hospital vs Cases

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    Covid summary.

    Cases, hospitalisation and deaths up... but

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,678

    Covid summary.

    Cases, hospitalisation and deaths up... but

    image

    Universities finishing?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/status/1412736076339466243

    2019: "If young people didn't spend all their money on fancy coffees they would be able to afford a house"

    2021: "If young people don't go back to offices and buy fancy coffees then the economy is going to implode"

    Pretty sure fancy coffees shouldn't have such power tbh

    Maybe, if young people spend all their money on a house instead of coffee, then the economy implodes?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Caitlin Moran
    @caitlinmoran
    ·
    17h
    Cab ride across London during extra time - pubs exploding, horns sounding. For an England team who took the knee, wear rainbow armbands, campaign against child poverty. It feels like a cultural game-changer on the same scale as The Beatles.



    Hmmm. Colour me sceptical.
This discussion has been closed.