C&A: The by-election campaign that was totally ignored by the media – politicalbetting.com
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Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?3 -
That’s quite alright. As you know I stalk your every movement, hang on breathlessly to your every utterance, and feel obliged to step in when you’re not quite keeping up with the pace.Theuniondivvie said:
Thank you for enlightening me on what point was being made. Use of the term ‘remoaner’ had led down entirely the wrong path.DougSeal said:
It’s not okay and the perpetrator should be locked up. I think the point being made is that it had no effect on the outcome of the game as the outcome of the penalty was a save. If Schmeichel had put his hand up and told the referee before the pen was taken, and security removed the offender, then in some Sliding Doors alternate future Kane might have actually taken a decent penalty and scored from it.Theuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?TheWhiteRabbit said:
The penalty he saved, of course.Leon said:Remoaners gonna Remoan
‘WTF!! An England fan was shining a laser in Caspar Schmeichel's eyes during the penalty!
I am so sorry Denmark. 😳
#ENGDEN’
https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1412895681912741894?s=21
‘I am very anti Brexit, but Jesus can we enjoy the England team winning and achieving a final for the first time in 55 years? These responses are horrendous’
https://twitter.com/tinderuppal/status/1412896760792457217?s=21
Yours truly,
A. Remoaner0 -
Hanging in effigy blow up sex dolls is about as total as it gets up here in stadium. The Rangers fans showing promising signs of derangement though.Dura_Ace said:
I was once at a Derby della Capitale where the Roma fans chucked a burning scooter off the roof of the stadium into a mob of Tifoseria Laziale. It was brilliant. Total football.Theuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?0 -
I was at a match in Swindon where one fan was kicked to death another led out with dart in forehead.Dura_Ace said:
I was once at a Derby della Capitale where the Roma fans chucked a burning scooter off the roof of the stadium into a mob of Tifoseria Laziale. It was brilliant. Total football.Theuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?0 -
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.0 -
If it’s not temporary inflation, and keeps on blipping, please share your back up plan.Philip_Thompson said:
Good, its temporary inflation as we rebound from last year. So they should.eek said:The ECB have announced they are going to ignore some inflation to ensure they can keep interest rates low
https://twitter.com/davidmwessel/status/1413091746280583169
David Wessel
@davidmwessel
·
16m
New ECB strategy: 2% inflation target with occasional "transitory period" in light of effective lower bound on interest rates.
ECB has done the same thing in the past.0 -
I think our views are largely similar on many issues the trouble is you only tend to post when something really winds you up, like Brexit, and as a result that invective and aggression boils over into what you write.Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
Join in on things you agree with and are interested in too. It'll change people's views of you and make you a more interesting and valuable poster.0 -
It seems pretty clear that some Tories - including some surprising ones on here - care not what bit however bad the government is as long as it is a Tory government. Which means that their aim for the party is simply to be in power, not to actually do anything with that power.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.2 -
Ultimately that will be the problem. The beef between you and HYUFD is one replicated, I imagine, in constituency parties across the country.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.3 -
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.2 -
Judge people not by what they say, but by what they do.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.
and what Johnson and his regime have done is far from libertarian Toryism. Very far.
1 -
Boris does not moralise, it is true, but there is limited evidence for his belief in "small state government". Rather the opposite, I'd have thought. ETA that is no doubt part of his appeal to the Red Wall – Boris and the government will intervene and invest to make your lives better. Boris is on your side.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.1 -
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.1 -
Another Post Brexit nationalisation to be announced today. I thought Brexit was supposed to be right wing, small state, low taxes, pirate island. Brexitomics seems to be the most expensive big government spending state of all. 😆contrarian said:
If you trads see him as a clown, you can only imagine how we Thatcherites feel....Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
1 -
LOL. Are you sure? 😂Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.0 -
Unbelievable start to the Cricket. Pakistan currently 0-2.1
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Question for the legal types - is shining a laser in someone's face actually assault? It feels like it should be something of that kind....TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's not fine, England will be fined and the people involved should be banned. But if it doesn't affect the result then I don't think it should marr the game to the extent Twitter appears to believeTheuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?TheWhiteRabbit said:
The penalty he saved, of course.Leon said:Remoaners gonna Remoan
‘WTF!! An England fan was shining a laser in Caspar Schmeichel's eyes during the penalty!
I am so sorry Denmark. 😳
#ENGDEN’
https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1412895681912741894?s=21
‘I am very anti Brexit, but Jesus can we enjoy the England team winning and achieving a final for the first time in 55 years? These responses are horrendous’
https://twitter.com/tinderuppal/status/1412896760792457217?s=210 -
Europe is really starting on their Delta waves now.
Netherlands/Spain in particular seem to have cases rising at a far higher rate than we have seen in the UK.
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Sheffield Forgemasters? There’s very good national security reasons, for not letting that get sold to the Chinese.gealbhan said:
Another Post Brexit nationalisation to be announced today. I thought Brexit was supposed to be right wing, small state, low taxes, pirate island. Brexitomics seems to be the most expensive big government spending state of all. 😆contrarian said:
If you trads see him as a clown, you can only imagine how we Thatcherites feel....Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
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Most definitely yes. Common assault at minimum as it puts someone in imminent fear of their safety. I’m not a criminal lawyer but there are other offences that, depending on outcome, it could be also.Malmesbury said:
Question for the legal types - is shining a laser in someone's face actually assault? It feels like it should be something of that kind....TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's not fine, England will be fined and the people involved should be banned. But if it doesn't affect the result then I don't think it should marr the game to the extent Twitter appears to believeTheuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?TheWhiteRabbit said:
The penalty he saved, of course.Leon said:Remoaners gonna Remoan
‘WTF!! An England fan was shining a laser in Caspar Schmeichel's eyes during the penalty!
I am so sorry Denmark. 😳
#ENGDEN’
https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1412895681912741894?s=21
‘I am very anti Brexit, but Jesus can we enjoy the England team winning and achieving a final for the first time in 55 years? These responses are horrendous’
https://twitter.com/tinderuppal/status/1412896760792457217?s=210 -
IIRC when supplying equipment to the Government/MOD of a certain category, the company has to contractually set out what happens if they go under. Including transferring required IP....Sandpit said:
Sheffield Forgemasters? There’s very good national security reasons, for not letting that get sold to the Chinese.gealbhan said:
Another Post Brexit nationalisation to be announced today. I thought Brexit was supposed to be right wing, small state, low taxes, pirate island. Brexitomics seems to be the most expensive big government spending state of all. 😆contrarian said:
If you trads see him as a clown, you can only imagine how we Thatcherites feel....Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
1 -
Marjorca airport has no hard liquor and a few tiny bottles of wine, hidden away in a deserted sandwich shop
BE WARNED1 -
There definitely should be sentencing guidelines based on the power of the device.DougSeal said:
Most definitely yes. Common assault at minimum as it puts someone in imminent fear of their safety. I’m not a criminal lawyer but there are other offences that, depending on outcome, it could be also.Malmesbury said:
Question for the legal types - is shining a laser in someone's face actually assault? It feels like it should be something of that kind....TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's not fine, England will be fined and the people involved should be banned. But if it doesn't affect the result then I don't think it should marr the game to the extent Twitter appears to believeTheuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?TheWhiteRabbit said:
The penalty he saved, of course.Leon said:Remoaners gonna Remoan
‘WTF!! An England fan was shining a laser in Caspar Schmeichel's eyes during the penalty!
I am so sorry Denmark. 😳
#ENGDEN’
https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1412895681912741894?s=21
‘I am very anti Brexit, but Jesus can we enjoy the England team winning and achieving a final for the first time in 55 years? These responses are horrendous’
https://twitter.com/tinderuppal/status/1412896760792457217?s=21
Some of the newer ones are, frankly, terrifying.
Some mad scientist types out there are beginning to build actual laser weapons, using the available high power laser LEDs....0 -
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.1 -
Annulling the referendum was not "perfection", it was stupendous folly which had to be defeatedDougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
It is astonishing, in retrospect, that the Liberal "Democrats" literally campaigned with a policy of cancelling democracy1 -
Unbelievable or ‘unbelievable’?DavidL said:Unbelievable start to the Cricket. Pakistan currently 0-2.
0 -
Wasn't Sheffield Forgemasters previously "rescued" by various defence companies because it was the easiest way of doing so without triggering competition issues?Sandpit said:
Sheffield Forgemasters? There’s very good national security reasons, for not letting that get sold to the Chinese.gealbhan said:
Another Post Brexit nationalisation to be announced today. I thought Brexit was supposed to be right wing, small state, low taxes, pirate island. Brexitomics seems to be the most expensive big government spending state of all. 😆contrarian said:
If you trads see him as a clown, you can only imagine how we Thatcherites feel....Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
1 -
I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.
By 3 weeks.0 -
Really excellent bowling I think.Theuniondivvie said:
Unbelievable or ‘unbelievable’?DavidL said:Unbelievable start to the Cricket. Pakistan currently 0-2.
0 -
God's sake. And has she estimated how many businesses will fail as a result?Razedabode said:I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.
By 3 weeks.0 -
It is.Leon said:
Annulling the referendum was not "perfection", it was stupendous folly which had to be defeatedDougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
It is astonishing, in retrospect, that the Liberal "Democrats" literally campaigned with a policy of cancelling democracy
My high level view - without rehearsing the mad saga of “indicative votes” et al, is at the end, parliamentarians of all parties preferred any Brexit to a Corbyn premiership.0 -
Cross that bridge if we get there.gealbhan said:
If it’s not temporary inflation, and keeps on blipping, please share your back up plan.Philip_Thompson said:
Good, its temporary inflation as we rebound from last year. So they should.eek said:The ECB have announced they are going to ignore some inflation to ensure they can keep interest rates low
https://twitter.com/davidmwessel/status/1413091746280583169
David Wessel
@davidmwessel
·
16m
New ECB strategy: 2% inflation target with occasional "transitory period" in light of effective lower bound on interest rates.
ECB has done the same thing in the past.0 -
You should see what the Conservative and Unionist party have been up to.Leon said:
Annulling the referendum was not "perfection", it was stupendous folly which had to be defeatedDougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
It is astonishing, in retrospect, that the Liberal "Democrats" literally campaigned with a policy of cancelling democracy1 -
Yes, the government appear to have little choice here, it’s hardly as if they’re picking winners as they’re the last high-grade forge in the country making military stuff. Hopefully something viable comes out of the recession, and it can be divested in future.Malmesbury said:
IIRC when supplying equipment to the Government/MOD of a certain category, the company has to contractually set out what happens if they go under. Including transferring required IP....Sandpit said:
Sheffield Forgemasters? There’s very good national security reasons, for not letting that get sold to the Chinese.gealbhan said:
Another Post Brexit nationalisation to be announced today. I thought Brexit was supposed to be right wing, small state, low taxes, pirate island. Brexitomics seems to be the most expensive big government spending state of all. 😆contrarian said:
If you trads see him as a clown, you can only imagine how we Thatcherites feel....Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
0 -
I used to go to Spartak Moscow when I lived there and all of the Moscow derbies were intense but special hatred was reserved for Zenit. Russian ultras are strange. There is no shouting or posturing; they just adopt grim expressions and set about their duty with axes, bits of scaffold tube and occasionally an exchange of small arms fire. Terek Grozhny fans were supposed to be the worst but I never had the pleasure of seeing them in action.Theuniondivvie said:
Hanging in effigy blow up sex dolls is about as total as it gets up here in stadium. The Rangers fans showing promising signs of derangement though.Dura_Ace said:
I was once at a Derby della Capitale where the Roma fans chucked a burning scooter off the roof of the stadium into a mob of Tifoseria Laziale. It was brilliant. Total football.Theuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?0 -
Yes.eek said:
Wasn't Sheffield Forgemasters previously "rescued" by various defence companies because it was the easiest way of doing so without triggering competition issues?Sandpit said:
Sheffield Forgemasters? There’s very good national security reasons, for not letting that get sold to the Chinese.gealbhan said:
Another Post Brexit nationalisation to be announced today. I thought Brexit was supposed to be right wing, small state, low taxes, pirate island. Brexitomics seems to be the most expensive big government spending state of all. 😆contrarian said:
If you trads see him as a clown, you can only imagine how we Thatcherites feel....Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
For demented business decisions, the sale of H&K by BAe has to be right up there. I was a shareholder in BAe at the time and tried to raise it at a shareholders meeting...0 -
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them1 -
0
-
Plymouth in the 80's? Thats the only death I can remember. Not at the ground either.gealbhan said:
I was at a match in Swindon where one fan was kicked to death another led out with dart in forehead.Dura_Ace said:
I was once at a Derby della Capitale where the Roma fans chucked a burning scooter off the roof of the stadium into a mob of Tifoseria Laziale. It was brilliant. Total football.Theuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?0 -
Not me. When May was in power I voted against the party to get rid of her, albeit at an election that wouldn't change Westminster. With all respect if the Tories reflected someone like HYUFD then I'd leave the party again.RochdalePioneers said:
It seems pretty clear that some Tories - including some surprising ones on here - care not what bit however bad the government is as long as it is a Tory government. Which means that their aim for the party is simply to be in power, not to actually do anything with that power.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.
This may be a bitter pill for some of you to swallow but some people actually like what Johnson represents. For me Johnson is a flawed individual who represents the best traits of liberal Conservativism.0 -
Hahahahhawilliamglenn said:@sgevans
Gazzetta dello Sport piece says the "generous penalty" awarded to England "confirms the suspicions of a return of favour" to Boris Johnson for his role in stopping the Super League threat to UEFA.
https://twitter.com/sgevans/status/1413097694155976709
I feel like the Apocryphal and Impoverished Jew in 1930s Germany who read Der Sturmer "because it tells me that we control the world"1 -
Johnson nationalised a company yesterday!Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.2 -
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them1 -
I was only joking.Mexicanpete said:
I don't think a late Gert Muller goal cost Harold the election though.gealbhan said:
Yet if it wasn’t for the managerial mistakes in the Germany match, would have got in again.justin124 said:
It did not do Harold Wilson much good back in 1966. England won the World Cup at the end of July, yet by the end of 1967 the Labour Government had lost 5 by elections - and suffered a landslide defeat at the GLC elections. A further 5 by elections were lost in the first half of 1968 accompanied by disastrous results at the May 1968 local elections.FrancisUrquhart said:Boris is rather a lucky general again....success is nothing to do with him, but never hurts for a country to be excited about some sporting success.
If they had held onto 71, they could have had the 18-21 vote couldn’t they? What month would that have kicked in?0 -
We'll see.contrarian said:
Judge people not by what they say, but by what they do.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.
and what Johnson and his regime have done is far from libertarian Toryism. Very far.
While on many things normally I imagine we might see eye to eye, I recognise the pandemic has changed things and while you may be a zealot extremist more than I am on that, the reality is that no PM would realistically have stood back and done nothing while the pandemic swept the globe.
While some people condemn Boris for being "too slow" to react to the pandemic, I view it as a good thing not a flaw. That he only acted when it was absolutely necessary, whereas had May been in charge I have little doubt she'd have been more draconian authoritarian than Boris has been - and quite possibly wouldn't have replicated his vaccine success meaning we'd have been subjected to those draconian restrictions for longer too.0 -
Perfection in their eyes.Leon said:
Annulling the referendum was not "perfection", it was stupendous folly which had to be defeatedDougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
It is astonishing, in retrospect, that the Liberal "Democrats" literally campaigned with a policy of cancelling democracy0 -
We don't know yet.Foxy said:
No, but it is one way of ending male/female division of sports. It is not unusual to have girls in junior football teams, and in teenage teams weight is a better division than age.williamglenn said:
So you'd solve the problem by abolishing women's sports?Foxy said:
One option might be to end gender classification for some sports, and replace it with a boxing like height/weight qualificationAlistairM said:
LGB rights could always be resolved by live and let live. The problem with Transgender and Women's rights is that I don't believe it can be resolved in the same way. For example, if transgender (male to female) athletes are allowed to compete against women then that is a lost battle for women's rights. I don't see how this can really be resolved. I'd love to hear a solution if someone has one!Philip_Thompson said:
Its remarkable how fast the attitude towards LGB people has transformed. In the space of a generation its completely changed and now its basically embarrassing if anyone has an issue with them. Its really a change for the better.Foxy said:
I suspect that being an out gay footballer would be met with a shrug, and little more than a bit of shower banter from the players. Times have moved on.kjh said:@Cookie fpt:
While I accept your premise that the percentage of gay people is not homogenous across all professions it is also inconceivable that the number in football is so low that it appears to be zero.
Also yes people don't come out because of the negative reaction to them coming out whether that be fans, team mates, or the media. Why else would they not? There clearly is an issue in football as there is/was with race.
I guess we have to go through the stages of people coming out so that it is accepted before we can get to my original point which is people do not need to come out, because coming out is of no interest to anyone, a bit like a straight person declaring they are straight - who cares?
Fans too, where Pride events, flags etc go unremarked in crowds, indeed after one Leicester match the season before last, much of the crowd drifted up to Vicky Park for Leicester Pride to party into the night.
I left the T off deliberately as the awkward collission between T rights and Women's Rights is an unresolved issue.
In reality as the Olympics show, Trans women dominating events doesn't appear to be a real issue.0 -
Does that picking of sides have to expand into every area of life? Football, every aspect of culture, because that’s where we are.Dura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them0 -
It's telling that for the vast majority of them, 'perfection' was maintaining the status quo and not fully participating in the EU, joining the Euro, etc. They are reactionaries.DougSeal said:
Perfection in their eyes.Leon said:
Annulling the referendum was not "perfection", it was stupendous folly which had to be defeatedDougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
It is astonishing, in retrospect, that the Liberal "Democrats" literally campaigned with a policy of cancelling democracy0 -
wrt the debate about Johnson's X-factor and @Casino, @Nigel, and others' point about why people follow/like/vote for him.
Interesting snippet from 30 seconds in to around 1m10s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5gcdSxjV34&list=PL3CCBF5A57052F05B&index=2
2 -
What a fantastic start to the Cricket 🏏
Considering this is an entirely new team full of many debutantes, we've already got 4 wickets. The future looks bright for English cricket.
26-40 -
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum
0 -
Since when was modern democracy simpy "rule by the mob"? The Lib Dems think that what has happened is more or less disastrous and for them to pretend otherwise wouldn´t fool anyone. So the Lib Dems are perfectly within their rights to put their policy to the popular vote, and even if rejected at least they have the guts to stick to their principles. The fact that a Trumpian Tory party relies on a crooked media and electoral system makes it even more important to speak up for what you beleive.Leon said:
Annulling the referendum was not "perfection", it was stupendous folly which had to be defeatedDougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
It is astonishing, in retrospect, that the Liberal "Democrats" literally campaigned with a policy of cancelling democracy
More people thnk that the 2016 vote was a mistake than those who support the current government in any event, but that is another story.
The current verdict of politics favours the Tories, but the verdict of history is unlikely to be anything like so kind.0 -
A thoughtful and fair response, thanksPhilip_Thompson said:
We'll see.contrarian said:
Judge people not by what they say, but by what they do.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.
and what Johnson and his regime have done is far from libertarian Toryism. Very far.
While on many things normally I imagine we might see eye to eye, I recognise the pandemic has changed things and while you may be a zealot extremist more than I am on that, the reality is that no PM would realistically have stood back and done nothing while the pandemic swept the globe.
While some people condemn Boris for being "too slow" to react to the pandemic, I view it as a good thing not a flaw. That he only acted when it was absolutely necessary, whereas had May been in charge I have little doubt she'd have been more draconian authoritarian than Boris has been - and quite possibly wouldn't have replicated his vaccine success meaning we'd have been subjected to those draconian restrictions for longer too.1 -
Yes.DougSeal said:
Does that picking of sides have to expand into every area of life? Football, every aspect of culture, because that’s where we are.Dura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them0 -
Does it amaze you when, after a General Election, all the supporters of the losing party don't immediately declare their loyalty and future voting intentions for the winning party?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum0 -
The other fuckers never gave up after Maastricht. Why would you expect any different from the other side?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum0 -
No.TOPPING said:
Does it amaze you when, after a General Election, all the supporters of the losing party don't immediately declare their loyalty and future voting intentions for the winning party?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum
But it is ridiculous when the supporters of the losing party vehemently and loudly proclaim that they were right all along, "won the argument", that the public were stupid, that the public were tricked and the public will soon see the error of their ways and come to see the One True Truth.
Sensible parties and their supporters when they lose react by thinking "what did we do wrong", "where can we learn" etc so that they can do better next time. This is what Cameron and Blair did in Opposition and its why they won and no other Opposition leaders in the nearly half a century have done.1 -
Sure, and the Liberal Democrats are free to campaign, next time, on a policy of throwing elderly Mancunians into the Thames, because they think that too is sensible or whatever, and I am free to point out that such a policy is insane, evil; and dangerous, as was their policy of simply Revoking the biggest vote in British political historyCicero said:
Since when was modern democracy simpy "rule by the mob"? The Lib Dems think that what has happened is more or less disastrous and for them to pretend otherwise wouldn´t fool anyone. So the Lib Dems are perfectly within their rights to put their policy to the popular vote, and even if rejected at least they have the guts to stick to their principles. The fact that a Trumpian Tory party relies on a crooked media and electoral system makes it even more important to speak up for what you beleive.Leon said:
Annulling the referendum was not "perfection", it was stupendous folly which had to be defeatedDougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
It is astonishing, in retrospect, that the Liberal "Democrats" literally campaigned with a policy of cancelling democracy
More people thnk that the 2016 vote was a mistake than those who support the current government in any event, but that is another story.
The current verdict of politics favours the Tories, but the verdict of history is unlikely to be anything like so kind.0 -
Odd example.Dura_Ace said:
The other fuckers never gave up after Maastricht. Why would you expect any different from the other side?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum
'The other fuckers' never lost a referendum on Maastricht.0 -
It's just a bit of controversy for people to wind themselves up with after a football match, like the second ball on the pitch but much nastier because the idea is that someone was being deliberately hurt.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
What is Strasbourg Syndrome? (I'm really hoping it's not irrational love for the European Parliament viewed as hostage-takers.)0 -
Which one? I missed that?Dura_Ace said:
Johnson nationalised a company yesterday!Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.0 -
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.5 -
Because we are not having another vote for 20 years minimum (maybe never, given the bile of the last one) so Remainers should focus their energies elsewhereDura_Ace said:
The other fuckers never gave up after Maastricht. Why would you expect any different from the other side?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum
Instead of bitching and whining like pussies, and trash talking the country whenever they get the chance, they could work out a way to smuggle us back into the Single Market, perhaps with Free Movement. Then they would get most of what they want.
Moreover, this is politically do-able, I reckon - unlike Rejoin1 -
https://news.sky.com/story/mod-finalises-move-to-take-control-of-nuclear-sub-contractor-sheffield-forgemasters-12350788Philip_Thompson said:
Which one? I missed that?Dura_Ace said:
Johnson nationalised a company yesterday!Philip_Thompson said:
It depends what you consider the party to stand for. Not all Tories share the same principles.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps the point is that you cannot put Liar into the same league as Cameron and Thatcher. They had class, decency, honour, values...Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite. I think people are well aware that "more trad Tories" think Johnson is a clown. We are also quite aware that more traditional Tories like IDS, Michael Howard and Theresa May have a rather poor electoral record while more liberal or transformative Tories like Johnson, Cameron and Thatcher have done well.Nigel_Foremain said:
A lot of Johnsonian Tories are in denial. They are blind to the inconvenient truth that Johnson is seen as a clown by more trad Tories.Cicero said:
Except at the ballot box. C&A is also supported by some very unusual results in the locals.algarkirk said:
Yes. There is little polling data supporting the increasing anti Tory in the south thesis.Casino_Royale said:
Confirmation bias. Given how raw your politics are Tories that disagree with you simply won't talk to you.OnlyLivingBoy said:Agree with this. I think the next election is going to feature some very interesting results in prosperous areas of the South. Most of the Tories I know through work are now ex Tories. Things like the "citizens of nowhere" speech went down like a bucket of cold sick on the trading floor. But the media are still engaged in their anthropological expeditions to Leaveland.
Johnson may just be The Greatest Showman, but From Now On people who normally vote for The Other Side are voting Tory. Still no matter how many elections he wins will be Never Enough for you, will it?
Winning elections is important as a politician. But having won, if you then end up in government undermining all that your party stands for, what is the point?
For me as a libertarian Tory I want a small state government that doesn't unnecessarily tell people what to do and for me Johnson shares those principles more than May or IDS did.1 -
Fine. Some will do that and some will do the former. All kinds of responses to losing a political decision.Philip_Thompson said:
No.TOPPING said:
Does it amaze you when, after a General Election, all the supporters of the losing party don't immediately declare their loyalty and future voting intentions for the winning party?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum
But it is ridiculous when the supporters of the losing party vehemently and loudly proclaim that they were right all along, "won the argument", that the public were stupid, that the public were tricked and the public will soon see the error of their ways and come to see the One True Truth.
Sensible parties and their supporters when they lose react by thinking "what did we do wrong", "where can we learn" etc so that they can do better next time. This is what Cameron and Blair did in Opposition and its why they won and no other Opposition leaders in the nearly half a century have done.
The more amazing thing is that people on here expect the losers to all of a sudden start thinking that the winners had it right all along because democracy.0 -
Would it really have been better? Even if you're sceptical about there being any upsides from Brexit, choosing a relationship that prevents there being any upside but with a clear downgrade in status would just defer the real decision.DougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.1 -
Quite. And from that awkward position - in the SM with no say - it might have been easier to persuade the British people to rejoin, it would definitely have been easier to progressively tie us closer to BrusselsDougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.
It amazed me at the time that Remainers didn't see this. They kept twisting not sticking0 -
Off topic but of interest. The next big heatwave of 2021 lands in Southern Iberia this weekend.
https://twitter.com/Meteovilles/status/1411642017663356929
0 -
Well, that’s me buggered then, because I’m not playing.Dura_Ace said:
Yes.DougSeal said:
Does that picking of sides have to expand into every area of life? Football, every aspect of culture, because that’s where we are.Dura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them0 -
Thank goodness you weren't an adviser to Nigel Farage in the early days of his campaign.Leon said:
Because we are not having another vote for 20 years minimum (maybe never, given the bile of the last one) so Remainers should focus their energies elsewhereDura_Ace said:
The other fuckers never gave up after Maastricht. Why would you expect any different from the other side?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum
Instead of bitching and whining like pussies, and trash talking the country whenever they get the chance, they could work out a way to smuggle us back into the Single Market, perhaps with Free Movement. Then they would get most of what they want.
Moreover, this is politically do-able, I reckon - unlike Rejoin0 -
We can do both.Leon said:
Instead of bitching and whining like pussies, and trash talking the country whenever they get the chance, they could work out a way to smuggle us back into the Single Market, perhaps with Free Movement. Then they would get most of what they want.Dura_Ace said:
The other fuckers never gave up after Maastricht. Why would you expect any different from the other side?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum
0 -
A play on Stockholm SyndromeGnud said:
It's just a bit of controversy for people to wind themselves up with after a football match, like the second ball on the pitch but much nastier because the idea is that someone was being deliberately hurt.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
What is Strasbourg Syndrome? (I'm really hoping it's not irrational love for the European Parliament viewed as hostage-takers.)0 -
OT but recently we discussed salutes and these are quite Fred Scuttle-like with the hand raised to above the eye, almost to the middle of the forehead, rather than to the side of the head. The return varies between the short and long way down for no apparent reason.TOPPING said:wrt the debate about Johnson's X-factor and @Casino, @Nigel, and others' point about why people follow/like/vote for him.
Interesting snippet from 30 seconds in to around 1m10s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5gcdSxjV34&list=PL3CCBF5A57052F05B&index=20 -
This.DougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.
For some reason I am reminded of the following exchange in the book Cryptonomicon
Bobby Shaftoe (American Marine) "Why did you guys never work out that Banzai charges were stupid?"
Goto Dengo (Japanese Military Engineer) "Because everyone who found this out died in a Banzai charge"1 -
On this, they find themselves on the same side as Laurence Fox.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them1 -
Other ranks: smart as a carrotDecrepiterJohnL said:
OT but recently we discussed salutes and these are quite Fred Scuttle-like with the hand raised to above the eye, almost to the middle of the forehead, rather than to the side of the head. The return varies between the short and long way down for no apparent reason.TOPPING said:wrt the debate about Johnson's X-factor and @Casino, @Nigel, and others' point about why people follow/like/vote for him.
Interesting snippet from 30 seconds in to around 1m10s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5gcdSxjV34&list=PL3CCBF5A57052F05B&index=2
Offrs: any old way they want1 -
Among other things that Labour need to take on board is that the majority do not like killjoy puritans and will opt for less meddlesome rogues if that is the choice. With respect to Johnson I think that either he has a major reshuffle which increases net cabinet competence significantly or he'll be forced out in less than eighteen months. My hunch is that he will step down in any case before the next election.1
-
Finally.eek said:
On that basis imagine their reaction to the goals (and penalties) England get on Sunday.williamglenn said:@sgevans
Gazzetta dello Sport piece says the "generous penalty" awarded to England "confirms the suspicions of a return of favour" to Boris Johnson for his role in stopping the Super League threat to UEFA.
https://twitter.com/sgevans/status/1413097694155976709
My viewpoint is a more general one - for once the luck was on our side.1 -
That's hilarious.TOPPING said:wrt the debate about Johnson's X-factor and @Casino, @Nigel, and others' point about why people follow/like/vote for him.
Interesting snippet from 30 seconds in to around 1m10s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5gcdSxjV34&list=PL3CCBF5A57052F05B&index=2
It explains rather neatly why the army, by design, recruited only from that class and certain schools at that time.
Totally different to today's social philosophy of diversity.0 -
She can hand the bill to the rest of the UK and then scream grievance if we refuse to payDavidL said:
God's sake. And has she estimated how many businesses will fail as a result?Razedabode said:I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.
By 3 weeks.0 -
For sure. Mostly.Casino_Royale said:
That's hilarious.TOPPING said:wrt the debate about Johnson's X-factor and @Casino, @Nigel, and others' point about why people follow/like/vote for him.
Interesting snippet from 30 seconds in to around 1m10s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5gcdSxjV34&list=PL3CCBF5A57052F05B&index=2
It explains rather neatly why the army, by design, recruited only from that class and certain schools at that time.
Totally different to today's social philosophy of diversity.
1 -
Have you given your staff time off on Monday yet!!???MaxPB said:
Finally.eek said:
On that basis imagine their reaction to the goals (and penalties) England get on Sunday.williamglenn said:@sgevans
Gazzetta dello Sport piece says the "generous penalty" awarded to England "confirms the suspicions of a return of favour" to Boris Johnson for his role in stopping the Super League threat to UEFA.
https://twitter.com/sgevans/status/1413097694155976709
My viewpoint is a more general one - for once the luck was on our side.0 -
No, I think if you're going to leave you have to leave the CU and SM too for it to make sense.williamglenn said:
Would it really have been better? Even if you're sceptical about there being any upsides from Brexit, choosing a relationship that prevents there being any upside but with a clear downgrade in status would just defer the real decision.DougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.
Sure, you can have equivalence/some alignments (non contentious areas) and custom arrangements to smooth the border but you can't contract out access and regulation of your market to a body you have no say in, and accept free movement from it (in full) at the same time.1 -
It’s very sad, deaths of young people. Not even hooligans just decent people gone into wrong terrace.turbotubbs said:
Plymouth in the 80's? Thats the only death I can remember. Not at the ground either.gealbhan said:
I was at a match in Swindon where one fan was kicked to death another led out with dart in forehead.Dura_Ace said:
I was once at a Derby della Capitale where the Roma fans chucked a burning scooter off the roof of the stadium into a mob of Tifoseria Laziale. It was brilliant. Total football.Theuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?0 -
I have never subscribed to this strand of Johnsonian analysis. He and his hamster cheeked paramour absolutely love the gilded trappings of high office and will not easily surrender them. As a master fanny rat of long standing he will know only too well the importance of placatory measures on the home front to salve the sting of betrayal.NorthofStoke said:Among other things that Labour need to take on board is that the majority do not like killjoy puritans and will opt for less meddlesome rogues if that is the choice. With respect to Johnson I think that either he has a major reshuffle which increases net cabinet competence significantly or he'll be forced out in less than eighteen months. My hunch is that he will step down in any case before the next election.
0 -
Depends how concerned one is about status. Personally I don’t give a monkeys. After the U.K. dissolves England could easily be a prosperous, bigger, more maritime version of Switzerland given our reliance on financial services. I’d be more than happy with that.williamglenn said:
Would it really have been better? Even if you're sceptical about there being any upsides from Brexit, choosing a relationship that prevents there being any upside but with a clear downgrade in status would just defer the real decision.DougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.0 -
The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.
My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth
It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline0 -
I don't. But the hardcore market for this is 20-25% of the electorate.Dura_Ace said:
The other fuckers never gave up after Maastricht. Why would you expect any different from the other side?Leon said:
Brexit is not necessarily binary, it is - or was - a spectrum. Remoaners going for Revoke made Leavers allergic to compromise. Et voilaDura_Ace said:
Brexit means picking a side. You picked. I picked.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them
Anyway it's all done now and the Remoaners - a dwindling but still notable number of people, certainly on social media- need to grow out of this prolonged tantrum
There's a bigger one (45-50%) for closer alignment so that's what I think will play out if/when it's still a factor when there's a next change of Government.0 -
Quite.Leon said:The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.
My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth
It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline
We discussed it recently, when it was in an earlier stage of, erm, deposition. It certainly hasn't ripened well. I find also it is made of limestone - almost unknown in Edinburgh (barring the odd use of Portland limestone, etc.) Apparently enough sandstone wasn't available, which is odd as the stuff has been abundantly used in almost all recent developments.
Edit: if the stone weathers grey, it won't be too out of place - and some Scots sandstones such as Clashach are almost Cotswold in their colour. But even so. And there's more to a turd than the cladding stone.0 -
People make mistakes all the time and mostly don't change them, but live with them. We're on a long journey with the Brexit mistake. No-one has learnt how to live with Brexit yet, including Leavers, but eventually I think people will. I don't think it's sustainable to keep pretending Europe doesn't exist and at the same time blame it for everything. At some point there will be some implicit understanding, but it will be pretty much on the EU's terms. It's what it is. Mistakes don't go away because you plough on with them regardless.DougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.0 -
I mean status in a practical sense. We would have been giving up a say on EU law but still following it, so an obvious downside and no upside.DougSeal said:
Depends how concerned one is about status. Personally I don’t give a monkeys. After the U.K. dissolves England could easily be a prosperous, bigger, more maritime version of Switzerland given our reliance on financial services. I’d be more than happy with that.williamglenn said:
Would it really have been better? Even if you're sceptical about there being any upsides from Brexit, choosing a relationship that prevents there being any upside but with a clear downgrade in status would just defer the real decision.DougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.2 -
.
You do seem a trifle obsessed too, today.Leon said:
It is is literally insane. Strasbourg Syndrome. They just can't help it. They hate Brexit, so they hate Brexit Britain, so they hate everything about Britain, and they hate most Britons, and they hate seeing Britain, especially England, do well at ANYTHING, from vaccines to footballDougSeal said:
He saved the f**king penalty FFS. Are we sure that nothing was being shone into Kane’s eyes when he took possibly the worst spot kick of his career? I really really regret Brexit but why do my fellow Europhiles continue to dig when half the reason we lost in the first place was our relentless messaging of how shit our fellow countrymen are compared to literally everyone else on the continent. It didn’t keep us in the EU and it’s even less likely to get us back even into the SM. It’s literally insane.Scott_xP said:A laser pen was pointed at Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel’s eyes as he faced down the extra-time penalty against Harry Kane last night
The revelation is likely to add to the controversy surrounding England’s win https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-fans-shine-laser-pen-in-kasper-schmeichels-eyes-during-penalty-wmz6jhtcf?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625734655
They need therapy. I genuinely fear for them0 -
It wasn't at the ground, and he didn't die immediately, but Cambridge United fan Simon Dobbin's attack was much more recent:gealbhan said:
It’s very sad, deaths of young people. Not even hooligans just decent people gone into wrong terrace.turbotubbs said:
Plymouth in the 80's? Thats the only death I can remember. Not at the ground either.gealbhan said:
I was at a match in Swindon where one fan was kicked to death another led out with dart in forehead.Dura_Ace said:
I was once at a Derby della Capitale where the Roma fans chucked a burning scooter off the roof of the stadium into a mob of Tifoseria Laziale. It was brilliant. Total football.Theuniondivvie said:
Good to have it formalised that shining a laser pen in a keeper’s eyes before a penalty is perfectly ok if he saves it. Sharpened coins (Peace, prosperity and friendship to all nations 50p naturally), bottles and darts next?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-549205630 -
There was a point when damage limitation was possible. We pissed it away on a winner takes all showdown. With Corbyn as our gunslinger.FF43 said:
People make mistakes all the time and mostly don't change them, but live with them. We're on a long journey with the Brexit mistake. No-one has learnt how to live with Brexit yet, including Leavers, but eventually I think people will. I don't think it's sustainable to keep pretending Europe doesn't exist and at the same time blame it for everything. At some point there will be some implicit understanding, but it will be pretty much on the EU's terms. It's what it is. Mistakes don't go away because you plough on with them regardless.DougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.2 -
- around 68 million people are presumably "living with Brexit" now in one way or otherFF43 said:
People make mistakes all the time and mostly don't change them, but live with them. We're on a long journey with the Brexit mistake. No-one has learnt how to live with Brexit yet, including Leavers, but eventually I think people will. I don't think it's sustainable to keep pretending Europe doesn't exist and at the same time blame it for everything. At some point there will be some implicit understanding, but it will be pretty much on the EU's terms. It's what it is. Mistakes don't go away because you plough on with them regardless.DougSeal said:
It was their initiative but when you play, and lose, you don’t blame the opposition for winning. You take a long hard look at yourself and what you did wrong and try and fix the problem. The Brexiteers wanted out of the EU. They won. We lost. But we keep on with the same mantras hat lost us the Referendum which, essentially, boil down to “you’re racist and the EU will punish us. England is small and nasty full of terrible people” ((c) TUD). Didn’t win then, won’t win now.Gardenwalker said:
Weird.DougSeal said:
Over the last 18 months my ire has shifted from the Brexiteers to the ultras on my own side who could have done so much more with a little pragmatism. Instead their chase for perfection destroyed any good and we are where we are.Casino_Royale said:
There is both a common-sense and practical case for Brexit, and also one for Remaining. Always was.williamglenn said:
If you suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that Brexit is the common sense position, would you see Johnson differently?Nigel_Foremain said:
As an ex Tory activist I agree and I think Johnsonian populism will come back and bite the party in the bum. I have always thought this, which is why I voted Jeremy Hunt and why I am no longer a member of the party.noneoftheabove said:
The Tories elected their leader. Yes better than Corbyn but Tory members own this government, are responsible for it and the only who people who can end it by 2024 and probably by 2028.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Above, the alternative last time was a far left lunatic.
The PM is unworthy of the role. Yet still far better than the likes of Corbyn.
For once I agree with @Casino_Royale when he said : "Most Tories I meet in the South are a bit like Clarkson - posh, affluent, patriotic and internationalist, but still decidedly Tory. They basically want pragmatism, common-sense, a well-run Government and not too much tax, thank you."
Sounds very like me tbh!
It's the ultras on both sides I don't have time for.
Do you really think Femi and that mad professor with long hair (can’t remember his name) had any impact one way or another?
Brexiters own Brexit.
After the referendum was lost, we had so many opportunities after the 2017 election to mitigate the damage. With a Remainer dominated Parliament could have pressed for Norway, Switzerland type options while still respecting the Referendum, yes the Brexiteers would have bleated that it was a BRINO but what could they have done about it? Even Theresa May’s deal, for us, would have been better than what we have. But every time we blew it in a vain hope that reversing the Referendum in the short term was in any way possible. It never was. Then we put everything on red in Autumn 2019 and that December it came up black.
Being in the SM without a seat on the EU Council or MEPs would have been suboptimal but a damn site better than what we have now and it would have torn the Tory party apart.
- I've never met anyone who pretends that "Europe doesn't exist", or for that matter anybody who blames it for everything
- indeed mistakes don't go away if you plough on, which is why we reversed our 1972 error five years ago.1 -
Brought to the city by an alliance of SNP and Tory councillors.Leon said:The Jobby Building in Edinburgh.
My God, it really is as bad as everyone says. What a disaster for one of the loveliest cities on earth
It makes the Walkie Talkie look elegant and well-judged
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/jul/08/a-great-city-has-been-defaced-why-has-a-poo-emoji-arrived-on-edinburghs-skyline
You do have to admire the political skill of the SNP in being able to pose successfully for so long as the anti-Tory shield for Scotland.1 -
On the other hand the enforced responsibilities will be psychological torture and he is intelligent enough to realise that quitting while ahead and then poncing around in some well paid international role and making more cash via speeches in the US would be better than being brought down by one scandal too many.Dura_Ace said:
I have never subscribed to this strand of Johnsonian analysis. He and his hamster cheeked paramour absolutely love the gilded trappings of high office and will not easily surrender them. As a master fanny rat of long standing he will know only too well the importance of placatory measures on the home front to salve the sting of betrayal.NorthofStoke said:Among other things that Labour need to take on board is that the majority do not like killjoy puritans and will opt for less meddlesome rogues if that is the choice. With respect to Johnson I think that either he has a major reshuffle which increases net cabinet competence significantly or he'll be forced out in less than eighteen months. My hunch is that he will step down in any case before the next election.
0 -
At least Sturgeon has realised there is an issue with hospitals although she doesn't seem have any more of a plan than her counterparts in England. She also,, correctly in my view, sees interventions as a toolbox to be deployed where they have a use and not ditched simply because you have declared freedom.Razedabode said:I see Sturgeons made a big, bold move to delay ending COVID restrictions.
By 3 weeks.0
This discussion has been closed.